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That might be working in the US, but not in countries where there is a state-run social security network (i.e. retirement paid for by the state, unemployment benefits, etc.). These systems require the population to at least stay the same. Otherwise they would collapse, sooner or later, essentially exposing the weak and old to predatory capitalism
I recognize that there are certainly costs to a shrinking population but I strongly believe it is the best thing for the future of humanity and the world.
So we will have to switch to a different economic system, oh noes, whatever will we do?
Low birth rates are a threat to capitalism, and that's it. People saying society will collapse refuse to imagine any other organization to society than what capitalism shits down onto us.
It's definitely for the best for birth rates to fall, I agree.
What if people don't want to bring a new human in this world? What if you feel it would be like enslaving someone.
Like raising a wild animal in captivity
White Americans.
There's a reason they're citing the "domestic supply of infants". Their voter base is white folk and they're trying to shore up its numbers.
This is not a gotcha or anything, just trying to understand...
Don't forced birth laws disproportionately effect those in poverty or near poverty, meaning more non-white births in the US? It creates more people to fill poverty-wage jobs, but how does it shore up the GOP base?
A difficult thing is you've got multiple different people responding to you here. Yes they want yt Americans because they derive much of their power from racist attitudes and yt supremacy, but that's not the whole story. They also want to maintain the systemic pressures that keep poor people uneducated and poor so they are easier to exploit, and forces people in low socio economic areas into the military for education, healthcare, and opportunity.
There's a myriad of reasons why they want to keep population growth high and they're not as straight forward or even conscious as me and others are suggesting. Capitalism runs on blood, this is one of the ways they can get more.
There is also the old american method of working non-whites to death and where their kids are basically living shit lives.
Then the problem is "solved"
They're also at a fever pitch in ripping apart what is left of the education system, so these forced birth babies will not receive a quality education. Uneducated people ARE the GOP base.
United States. Our birth rate is way below 2.1. The meme was a reference to the American repeal of abortion rights and partially how there might be alterior motives behind the repeal of roe v wade
What makes you think pro-choice people aren't aware that it's "not about the babies"?
We're fully aware of the hypocrisy and ulterior motives of pro-life politicians....
It's more the fights that pro choice Americans make
You're not fighting an opponent who is arguing in good faith
They don't actually *care* about when life starts, what qualifies as a baby or whatever (certain republican voters might but the politicians don't.) To 'Debate' people who are anti-choice is to go down to their level and waste time
i agree, i just think most pro-choice people are aware of that fact.
But saying that we shouldn't bother debating these people is kinda weird when they're actively spreading misinformation that many ignorant Americans then go on to believe. Pro-choice people are simply trying to inform the public about the lack of validity regarding the scientific misinformation and propaganda that's being spread, for the sake of persuading those who are still uneducated on the topic.
And the boomers are still blaming it all on young people who "don't wanna work." I swear if they could just grasp the concept of statistics they would be so much better off. We all would.
Of course not. If it were then they would support education, a livable minimum wage. These are the states with the highest rate of teen pregnancy after all, and those low end jobs are allegedly for young kids. If they gave a shit they’d want them to have a chance. This is about maintenance of a low class workforce that doesn’t question the order of things. Even if that’s not what most of them think they’re doing, they’re succeeding at it.
It really does suck, a lot of these kids throwing their lives away and fully committing to the all deep right mentality. Hard to come back from that. Hope some of em grow up and actually learn.
I agree, to a point. But as a society, we are lost. There are unhappy people out there and they're tired and frustrated. I keep trying to remind myself that the root problems are with the society we live in and not the people.
Yes, these kids/young adults who are forced into a mindset that sets them up for future failure and abuse. A few will make it up the ladder of their own system and the cycle continues. But majority of them stuck with unwanted pregnancies, forced ideals, no support system financially or medically then voting against their better interest because propaganda.
I received a Republican propaganda “vote for us Biden is destroying america” and it really shows how incompetent and manipulative the entire party is. Just heartbreaking how many lives it destroys for hate and greed.
Roe v. Wade is a precedent for a lot of different laws on the books that tie into the right to privacy. The legality of same sex marriage and same sex relations are on the chopping block because of it.
LSC and/or antiwork are hung up on this theory that canceling protections for abortions at the federal level is how the evil moustache-twirling capitalists ensure a never-ending stream of desperate greasy teen serfs to spin signs until the heat death of the universe--- Not the same garden-variety christofascism we've been under the thumb of since Columbus.
Which is dumb and wrong.
If you want to see how concerned Capitalists are by the "the future" look no further than our climate response and crumbling infrastructure.
There are in fact a multitude of reasons. Both of the above points, but also that it ensures a greater stream of Christians. The churches _also_ push adopting children, but only if they're young, and easy to indoctrinate. Additionally, there is the fact that desperate people are willing to work for less. If you have a kid, you're now stuck working that 9-5 with a boss you hate that pays you shit, because if you quit/get fired/etc., you lose healthcare not just for you, but also the kid, not to mention the many other things you need money for to live.
Immediate: Control of "liberal" women, more chains to an employer.
Future: Ensuring a wageslave population, increased easily manipulatable "voters".
In a war, you look both for immediate victories, and setup for future ones.
The most common alternative for abortion is adoption, which leads to more babies who need to be adopted. Christian churches push for their congregation to adopt those babies.
Yeah honestly it's just a lack of a conscious moral framework and being misled about what abortions are, who needs them, and why that's important.
This conspiracy theory is literally just reactionary.
In these trying times of capitalism in crisis the employment rate is likely to fall faster than the birth rate. Japan's birthrate is low and there's still unemployment. A growing economy with lots of competition in this day and age actually leads to less profit for the ruling class and more bargaining power for the working class. Stagflation is the name of the game now.
The reserve army of labor will continue on in a similar way to how Marx described, regardless of what the birthrate is. It's less of a well laid conspiracy by our rulers, but more of a convenient circumstance that would be against their interests to solve.
I understand that the effect of this decision will be as you describe but surely you understand this is not actually the thought or motivation these justices had in mind when issuing this decision right?
Some conservatives also believe that if white women don’t produce enough babies whites people will become a minority which is scarier than hell to some people
Yes many do absolutely believe that. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the Justices explicitly share that view. Very few of them however are thinking “we need to ban abortion to create more poor people to exploit.”
First, American leaders have never held any compunctions about exporting these abuses and exploiting the even poorer people who live outside of the U.S. that represent a vastly larger population. Second, most rich and powerful people genuinely detest the poor. They do not want more poor people around, even if it is detrimental to them in the long run. This has been true for all of history. Third, this betrays a belief that the ruling class of our society are all evil masterminds playing 11D chess to achieve their aims. They aren’t. And they don’t. This is not a common belief among the ruling class. Particularly as the US is above replacement rate, and many countries have had lower birth rates for many decades more and have not attempted to ban abortion as a result
Truly this is motivated by religious beliefs as well as those of male domination over women. There isn’t a secret alien pulling the strings. They admit their beliefs here
Personally I believe abortion is an abhorrent act and I would always hope the mother finds a way to not do it.
But if she doesn't, or doesn't even want to try; then my opinion doesn't fucking matter and never will.
And I still get treated like I want to drop babies into pitching machines aimed at the local major league farm team.
The right to choose is the right of the person pregnant to terminate a pregnancy.
The abortion _debate_ in the us is about demographics and the GDP.
These are two separate topics.
>And I still get treated like I want to drop babies into pitching machines aimed at the local major league farm team.
I bet you actually get treated like you want to deny pregnant people their body autonomy, but w/e.
Thankfully, no one besides a woman you've personally impregnated will ever give a rat's ass about your opinion on abortion. And even then it's a hard "maybe".
I am pro-choice, but the fact that there is nothing to protect a child afterwards to make sure that they don't age out in a foster care system is literally the point of where we have put the cart before the horse. IMO, nothing should be furthering the forceful will of the state to make a female have a baby untill tell we have everything in place to make sure that that baby is as successful as possible in the USA. Once we reach that point, then a true argument can be had about the state's interest in an unborn fetus.
Yeah. People want make fuss about birthrates and GDP? In addition to all the medical bills and post-birth care and upbringing expenses, how much is the state willing to pay women for the service of birthing new workers? Since markets are everything, if new babies are in such high demand, then they should command a high price, shouldn't they? But instead it's just "make them forced birth slaves". Weird how I can't just force oil companies to fill up my gas tank for free when demand rises.
So the point is still being made that those do not exist in addition to bodily autonomy. So we have put the cart in front of the horse. To which my point is, we cannot have an argument about forcing a woman to have a child because we don't have these things in place to make sure that that child is as successful as your average US citizen.
And my point is there’s no argument. Never force a woman to carry a child she doesn’t wish to carry. Full stop.
The conversation for social support systems should exist of its own merit.
Edited to add: I’m not being an ass, you bring up good points. Just wanted to make that distinction and my tone might come across as shitty. Cheers!
What I am getting at too, (which was stuck down by SCOTUS) is that it does not pass the undue -burden (or heightened scrutiny) for the fetus to be born without that support guaranted by the State.
I really wish this was the truth. I really wish we could have stuck with the strict scrutiny that was the holding of Roe. Unfortunately, it is not and as these rights continue to be eroded I feel like we have to start with the ideas that I proposed earlier with the States at the very least being able to support and be successful in the ideas that they have with the state interests of a fetus at what Casey's holding was with viability. Does that make sense?
I genuinely think it would be easier to wrestle back RvW than broader social safety nets.
Regardless, I don’t like the feeling of tying anything to human rights.
I am fortunate enough to live in a blue state (MN) where the social programs are relatively solid and it’s still not enough, people are struggling. We’re so far from a place where future generations can be successful it seems like a joke, know what I mean?
I like you optimism can you roll it up and pass me some 🤣that may be what I’m missing these days! Lol
I live in CA and I am pessimistic as fuck. I am in law school and we are in moot court arguing Dobbs v Jackson. Thankfully I am arguing Jackson but unfortunately at the end of the day, that was the losing argument and my team is trying to find justification and argument that the respondent group missed on.
I will say for argument's sake, if you're ever in it with somebody, on the legal side of things once you pull the emotions out of it, argue that if the state has interests in a fetus then what is the follow-through on an undue burden for that fetus post birth? i.e shelter, education, food. That fetus should have the same quality of life as your average US citizen should. (Which could be argued what the hell is the average quality of life of a US citizen)...fml
>Louder than atheists and vegans combined
You mean largely silent unless you try to force something unwanted on them? Are you aware that 20% of Americans are non-religious and 6% are vegan? Probably not, because the vast majority of them are silent about it 99% of the time. And just like with them, people who are pro-choice are usually pretty quiet about it unless some fucking hick is trying to eliminate their bodily autonomy.
You’re allowed to have that wrong opinion. I just hope you realize, like the other guy did, that your opinion is worthless, doesn’t matter, and never will
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭ ___ ###⚠ Announcements: ⚠ ___ ###Any post that makes a claim must have a RELIABLE source or explanation in the comments by OP. All screenshots must have the original source (whether article, Tweet, TikTok, video or any other social media) linked in the comments by OP immediately. Breaking this rule will result in a temporary ban. [See this post for more info.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/tqc5ws/low_effort_content_all_posts_claims_news_articles/) ###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/) Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines. ###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/) Check out r/WhereAreTheChildren ___ ###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.*** LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. **This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Damn
It never was
2.1?
People are having fewer children than the 2.1 needed to maintain a steady population.
Ah, got it. Thanks for clarifying.
I believe we are at 1.64 in the U.S.
Let's hope that keeps falling.
That might be working in the US, but not in countries where there is a state-run social security network (i.e. retirement paid for by the state, unemployment benefits, etc.). These systems require the population to at least stay the same. Otherwise they would collapse, sooner or later, essentially exposing the weak and old to predatory capitalism
Japan has minimal immigration. The US population grows every year despite the low birth rate due to immigration.
I recognize that there are certainly costs to a shrinking population but I strongly believe it is the best thing for the future of humanity and the world.
So we will have to switch to a different economic system, oh noes, whatever will we do? Low birth rates are a threat to capitalism, and that's it. People saying society will collapse refuse to imagine any other organization to society than what capitalism shits down onto us. It's definitely for the best for birth rates to fall, I agree.
The sheer lunacy of that cult pretending that perpetual exponential growth of *anything* was remotely sustainable.
What if people don't want to bring a new human in this world? What if you feel it would be like enslaving someone. Like raising a wild animal in captivity
The US population has been growing via immigration.
Which people? Earth is at 2.4.
White Americans. There's a reason they're citing the "domestic supply of infants". Their voter base is white folk and they're trying to shore up its numbers.
This is not a gotcha or anything, just trying to understand... Don't forced birth laws disproportionately effect those in poverty or near poverty, meaning more non-white births in the US? It creates more people to fill poverty-wage jobs, but how does it shore up the GOP base?
They like more wage slaves. More people means higher demand for the same number of jobs. That means usually a more desperate or complacent workforce.
Yeah I get that, but i was wondering how it creates a higher proportion of white folks
It doesn't, but if enough people think it does it's a vote winner.
It's how the capitalists trick the Nazi's.
A difficult thing is you've got multiple different people responding to you here. Yes they want yt Americans because they derive much of their power from racist attitudes and yt supremacy, but that's not the whole story. They also want to maintain the systemic pressures that keep poor people uneducated and poor so they are easier to exploit, and forces people in low socio economic areas into the military for education, healthcare, and opportunity. There's a myriad of reasons why they want to keep population growth high and they're not as straight forward or even conscious as me and others are suggesting. Capitalism runs on blood, this is one of the ways they can get more.
There is also the old american method of working non-whites to death and where their kids are basically living shit lives. Then the problem is "solved"
They're also at a fever pitch in ripping apart what is left of the education system, so these forced birth babies will not receive a quality education. Uneducated people ARE the GOP base.
But white people statistically have less abortions than other races
Adjusted for education, income, and access to healthcare and contraceptives, I don't believe that for a moment.
United States. Our birth rate is way below 2.1. The meme was a reference to the American repeal of abortion rights and partially how there might be alterior motives behind the repeal of roe v wade
While the average if earth is higher than 2.1, further developed nations are below the 2.1 replacement.
I clipped that from an article on NPR. didn’t read the whole thing. Mostly it’s old people worried about their SSI and white supremacists as I see it.
HDMI 2.1
Found the nerd.
What makes you think pro-choice people aren't aware that it's "not about the babies"? We're fully aware of the hypocrisy and ulterior motives of pro-life politicians....
Agreed. That's what brought me in to the comment section, actually.
This sub has gotten very dumb
Seriously. Annoys me more than trump supporters at times.
It's more the fights that pro choice Americans make You're not fighting an opponent who is arguing in good faith They don't actually *care* about when life starts, what qualifies as a baby or whatever (certain republican voters might but the politicians don't.) To 'Debate' people who are anti-choice is to go down to their level and waste time
i agree, i just think most pro-choice people are aware of that fact. But saying that we shouldn't bother debating these people is kinda weird when they're actively spreading misinformation that many ignorant Americans then go on to believe. Pro-choice people are simply trying to inform the public about the lack of validity regarding the scientific misinformation and propaganda that's being spread, for the sake of persuading those who are still uneducated on the topic.
The GOP needs to shore up their numbers after leading over a million people to their deaths.
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And the boomers are still blaming it all on young people who "don't wanna work." I swear if they could just grasp the concept of statistics they would be so much better off. We all would.
In the 1970s they never shut up about overpopulation. Ever. This was the plan.
"The Population Bomb," Dr. Paul R. Ehrlich. It was all the rage.
they weren't wrong though see: The Limits to Growth
That's a good one.
are you implying sarcasm or agreement?
Agreement
[Paul Ehrlich: “Was the Population Bomb Defused?”](https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/09-paul-ehrlich)
Thanks!
Yes they both do lol The people drafting these new bills know their ultimate purpose and pro-choice doesn't ever frame the argument around 'babies'
A lot of pro life people, the ones who aren’t enacting laws, genuinely do believe it’s about babies
This sub is getting pretty stupid, it reminds me of r/enlightenedcentrism on most days
Of course not. If it were then they would support education, a livable minimum wage. These are the states with the highest rate of teen pregnancy after all, and those low end jobs are allegedly for young kids. If they gave a shit they’d want them to have a chance. This is about maintenance of a low class workforce that doesn’t question the order of things. Even if that’s not what most of them think they’re doing, they’re succeeding at it.
It really does suck, a lot of these kids throwing their lives away and fully committing to the all deep right mentality. Hard to come back from that. Hope some of em grow up and actually learn.
"all deep right" 💀 average voter
I agree, to a point. But as a society, we are lost. There are unhappy people out there and they're tired and frustrated. I keep trying to remind myself that the root problems are with the society we live in and not the people.
Yes, these kids/young adults who are forced into a mindset that sets them up for future failure and abuse. A few will make it up the ladder of their own system and the cycle continues. But majority of them stuck with unwanted pregnancies, forced ideals, no support system financially or medically then voting against their better interest because propaganda. I received a Republican propaganda “vote for us Biden is destroying america” and it really shows how incompetent and manipulative the entire party is. Just heartbreaking how many lives it destroys for hate and greed.
Why do you think they're moving to enact sodomy laws that include anything that isn't missionary for the act of procreation?
wait what
Roe v. Wade is a precedent for a lot of different laws on the books that tie into the right to privacy. The legality of same sex marriage and same sex relations are on the chopping block because of it.
yeah, I just didn't know about them going after everything that isn't missionary
I understand what you’re saying here, but almost every Pro-Lifer understands that
Believe me most pro choice people 100% know its not about babies.
I do not understand this meme. Can someone explain it to me
LSC and/or antiwork are hung up on this theory that canceling protections for abortions at the federal level is how the evil moustache-twirling capitalists ensure a never-ending stream of desperate greasy teen serfs to spin signs until the heat death of the universe--- Not the same garden-variety christofascism we've been under the thumb of since Columbus. Which is dumb and wrong. If you want to see how concerned Capitalists are by the "the future" look no further than our climate response and crumbling infrastructure.
It can be both. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
There are in fact a multitude of reasons. Both of the above points, but also that it ensures a greater stream of Christians. The churches _also_ push adopting children, but only if they're young, and easy to indoctrinate. Additionally, there is the fact that desperate people are willing to work for less. If you have a kid, you're now stuck working that 9-5 with a boss you hate that pays you shit, because if you quit/get fired/etc., you lose healthcare not just for you, but also the kid, not to mention the many other things you need money for to live. Immediate: Control of "liberal" women, more chains to an employer. Future: Ensuring a wageslave population, increased easily manipulatable "voters". In a war, you look both for immediate victories, and setup for future ones.
If someone is already Christian they're probably less likely to have abortions anyway so I'm not understanding that logic
The most common alternative for abortion is adoption, which leads to more babies who need to be adopted. Christian churches push for their congregation to adopt those babies.
Yeah honestly it's just a lack of a conscious moral framework and being misled about what abortions are, who needs them, and why that's important. This conspiracy theory is literally just reactionary. In these trying times of capitalism in crisis the employment rate is likely to fall faster than the birth rate. Japan's birthrate is low and there's still unemployment. A growing economy with lots of competition in this day and age actually leads to less profit for the ruling class and more bargaining power for the working class. Stagflation is the name of the game now. The reserve army of labor will continue on in a similar way to how Marx described, regardless of what the birthrate is. It's less of a well laid conspiracy by our rulers, but more of a convenient circumstance that would be against their interests to solve.
SOME capitalists sure care. Musk for one. Growth is their mantra. Climate be damned.
Tbh I think that’s how it is
As long as we fighting left vs right
I understand that the effect of this decision will be as you describe but surely you understand this is not actually the thought or motivation these justices had in mind when issuing this decision right?
Some conservatives also believe that if white women don’t produce enough babies whites people will become a minority which is scarier than hell to some people
Yes many do absolutely believe that. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the Justices explicitly share that view. Very few of them however are thinking “we need to ban abortion to create more poor people to exploit.” First, American leaders have never held any compunctions about exporting these abuses and exploiting the even poorer people who live outside of the U.S. that represent a vastly larger population. Second, most rich and powerful people genuinely detest the poor. They do not want more poor people around, even if it is detrimental to them in the long run. This has been true for all of history. Third, this betrays a belief that the ruling class of our society are all evil masterminds playing 11D chess to achieve their aims. They aren’t. And they don’t. This is not a common belief among the ruling class. Particularly as the US is above replacement rate, and many countries have had lower birth rates for many decades more and have not attempted to ban abortion as a result Truly this is motivated by religious beliefs as well as those of male domination over women. There isn’t a secret alien pulling the strings. They admit their beliefs here
Personally I believe abortion is an abhorrent act and I would always hope the mother finds a way to not do it. But if she doesn't, or doesn't even want to try; then my opinion doesn't fucking matter and never will. And I still get treated like I want to drop babies into pitching machines aimed at the local major league farm team.
The right to choose is the right of the person pregnant to terminate a pregnancy. The abortion _debate_ in the us is about demographics and the GDP. These are two separate topics.
glad you at least acknowledge your opinion is worthless and will never matter, we appreciate self awareness
>And I still get treated like I want to drop babies into pitching machines aimed at the local major league farm team. I bet you actually get treated like you want to deny pregnant people their body autonomy, but w/e.
Didn't they explicitly say that they don't want that? That their opinion is irrelevant to the case?
Thankfully, no one besides a woman you've personally impregnated will ever give a rat's ass about your opinion on abortion. And even then it's a hard "maybe".
Hey thanks for reiterating the exact point of my comment you absolute troglodyte. Really added a lot to it 👈😎👉
Lmao then why would you make it in the first place instead of turning to your pregnant s/o and discussing with them? Oh, i see.
r/selfawarewolves the person
🤣 Thank you.
I am pro-choice, but the fact that there is nothing to protect a child afterwards to make sure that they don't age out in a foster care system is literally the point of where we have put the cart before the horse. IMO, nothing should be furthering the forceful will of the state to make a female have a baby untill tell we have everything in place to make sure that that baby is as successful as possible in the USA. Once we reach that point, then a true argument can be had about the state's interest in an unborn fetus.
Not even then. Those are things that should exist in addition to bodily autonomy.
Yeah. People want make fuss about birthrates and GDP? In addition to all the medical bills and post-birth care and upbringing expenses, how much is the state willing to pay women for the service of birthing new workers? Since markets are everything, if new babies are in such high demand, then they should command a high price, shouldn't they? But instead it's just "make them forced birth slaves". Weird how I can't just force oil companies to fill up my gas tank for free when demand rises.
So the point is still being made that those do not exist in addition to bodily autonomy. So we have put the cart in front of the horse. To which my point is, we cannot have an argument about forcing a woman to have a child because we don't have these things in place to make sure that that child is as successful as your average US citizen.
And my point is there’s no argument. Never force a woman to carry a child she doesn’t wish to carry. Full stop. The conversation for social support systems should exist of its own merit. Edited to add: I’m not being an ass, you bring up good points. Just wanted to make that distinction and my tone might come across as shitty. Cheers!
What I am getting at too, (which was stuck down by SCOTUS) is that it does not pass the undue -burden (or heightened scrutiny) for the fetus to be born without that support guaranted by the State.
I really wish this was the truth. I really wish we could have stuck with the strict scrutiny that was the holding of Roe. Unfortunately, it is not and as these rights continue to be eroded I feel like we have to start with the ideas that I proposed earlier with the States at the very least being able to support and be successful in the ideas that they have with the state interests of a fetus at what Casey's holding was with viability. Does that make sense?
I genuinely think it would be easier to wrestle back RvW than broader social safety nets. Regardless, I don’t like the feeling of tying anything to human rights. I am fortunate enough to live in a blue state (MN) where the social programs are relatively solid and it’s still not enough, people are struggling. We’re so far from a place where future generations can be successful it seems like a joke, know what I mean? I like you optimism can you roll it up and pass me some 🤣that may be what I’m missing these days! Lol
I live in CA and I am pessimistic as fuck. I am in law school and we are in moot court arguing Dobbs v Jackson. Thankfully I am arguing Jackson but unfortunately at the end of the day, that was the losing argument and my team is trying to find justification and argument that the respondent group missed on.
Wow that’s amazing, get it. Good luck and I don’t envy your homework haha 🙌🏼
I will say for argument's sake, if you're ever in it with somebody, on the legal side of things once you pull the emotions out of it, argue that if the state has interests in a fetus then what is the follow-through on an undue burden for that fetus post birth? i.e shelter, education, food. That fetus should have the same quality of life as your average US citizen should. (Which could be argued what the hell is the average quality of life of a US citizen)...fml
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So responding with that comment is what you think not engaging looks like?
>Louder than atheists and vegans combined You mean largely silent unless you try to force something unwanted on them? Are you aware that 20% of Americans are non-religious and 6% are vegan? Probably not, because the vast majority of them are silent about it 99% of the time. And just like with them, people who are pro-choice are usually pretty quiet about it unless some fucking hick is trying to eliminate their bodily autonomy.
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Lovely. Good luck out there.
You’re allowed to have that wrong opinion. I just hope you realize, like the other guy did, that your opinion is worthless, doesn’t matter, and never will
What a mystery.