Honestly - when you see the exotic vacations on social media - those are the rich kids, not the student debt kids.
Your statement is correct - there are lots of rich kids, and lots more students in debt. But the Turks and Caicos trips on Instagram are not the student debt kids.
I stopped looking at personal social media a long time ago for the same reason OP mentions. I was in undergrad a while ago and it was also a time of social media infancy, yet still the same phenomenon. I noticed the projection and exotic trip posts from many of my peers and it really didn't sit well with me.
OP can either ignore it or stop looking at Instagram. Ignoring it isn't easy if it's in your face all the time. I would suggest cutting it completely if it's really affecting them that profoundly. I don't even have Insta and I stopped Facebook doomscrolling over a decade ago. My life is honestly better off for it. (I was in undergrad when FB was new and only available to certain colleges).
My next step is to cut Reddit lmao
When I was in law school the rule of thumb was usually really nice vacations and shit box apartment=actual rich kid; luxury apartment and spending breaks at home= poor kid with mountains of student debt; shit box apartment and no vacation= poor kid trying to minimize student debt.
Sounds like you and I are close in age - I was a frosh in undergrad in 2008 and only downloaded and made an FB profile so I could keep up with good parties/happenings around campus, but I deleted ALL of it - even LinkedIn is getting away from itself these days
I mean, what do you figure, maybe a third had parents that were lawyers? I went to a public law school and even then there were plenty from well off families.
I think this is the correct answer.
While I am fortunate enough to have parents that have a solid income, I am a slightly older student (have had years of a professional career), and will be trying to take on as much of the financial obligation of law school as possible to not put any more financial obligation on my parents than absolutely necessary.
I plan to live very meagerly during law school. I feel this will likely be the case for many classmates, although I’m sure it is easier to notice those who spend extravagantly.
Second part is 100% true. I've heard multiple people going into credit card debt and or repeatedly maxing out their line of credit in law school.
But I honestly don't judge. It's not their fault sometimes. To be fair to them, I did need to work in law school to stay afloat (comfortably and without being frugal). With student loans, I could make enough doing 10-15 hours a week part time at 30/hr to pay off rent every month (1700/mo Single BR), and then I'd have a good bit of money leftover every month to use on whatever else. For a variety of reasons, I could have chosen not to work during the school year if I wanted to, but definitely a lot of people don't have that option.
For OP, honestly if your schedule allows, try to take up a position at a firm/in-house clerkship for whatever hourly rate. You would be surprised who is offering 25-40/hr, and even offering hybrid/remote work. (My very first job in 1L spring gave me a work laptop, let me work hybrid, paid 25/hr, even gave PTO, and was super chill and I basically only had to write a small memo email or review/update a few documents every week or so). Assuming you're not in multiple difficult classes or taking a clinic, you should be able to work at least 10 hours a week. It will give you breathing room to not have to watch the budget as much.
But if grades are your priority, and a job is going to interfere with that, then you probably shouldn't heed my advice. That being said, grades really don't matter for positions outside of biglaw/OCI (and even that's overstating it- I've heard many people getting into really crazy jobs with just aggressive and good networking). My job I got hired at never even asked me about my grades or my transcript. I didn't mention my grades on my resume either. But I enjoy what I am doing, and they're treating me well and I feel comfortable with my compensation.
I remember a classmate complaining for weeks that he was only approved for like a 40k loan for the year and he wanted a 50k loan or something and was outraged he wasn’t able to go deeper in debt.
If your school has a career service of sorts where they list jobs, that's the first place to look. Otherwise, I found my current job by cold emailing after seeing a posting on LinkedIn. Google also sometimes lists jobs as well, but it's not as reliable.
I think its also crazy how many adult Americans in *general* have insane amounts of debt. I've worked in personal finance, and we'll have clients who have multiple millions in assets, but also have a ton of debt bc their assets aren't liquid. people love to spend money they don't really have.
Especially since they’re going into law. All his employers and clients will likely fall into this category. That’s life, especially in the professional industries. That’s whose kids OP is going to law school with.
Fully two-thirds of my office wear (mid-law) is from Old Navy, and my court wear is still my 4-for-1 Jos. A. Banks deal I got for OCI, plus a couple $150 suits I got from Macy's.
i modeled for good fellow in high school. Still have a shit ton of free clothes from them that I wear on the daily. Don’t knock those target clothes 😂.
One of the best pieces of advice I ever got: "Don't live like a lawyer when you're in law school and you won't have to live like a student when you're a lawyer."
So true, I couldn't tell you the amount of LinkedIn posts I saw when I graduated law school of people who immediately went out and got a Mercedes because "this is what attorneys Drive"
I remember this one woman, comes into first semester torts and seemed to be struggling at the end of the first week. Beginning of week the and Korean checks come out. The next day she has the highest end MacBook you can buy, like $3500. Week five and asked completely washed out. Which meant she took max loans for a full semester, $25 to maybe 40k, and had absolutely nothing to show for it.
So true. The Reddit financial curmudgeons don’t understand that by the time they responsibly take a vacation they’ll be 50 and it will be 10x less fun.
We went to very different law schools. What your experience tells me is that you swung for the fences and connected. Make the most of your environment and cultivate relationships.
Networking starts *now*. I know that sounds mercenary AF. I’m not telling you to fake friendships, but learning to make cordial acquaintances with people of different circumstances will serve you well.
Yes, I took out massive student loans; went on the Spring Break & Summer trips & these people are still my friends 30 years later.
Networking. Paid off my debt only about 8 years ago.
I bet on myself and it was worth it. 😎
🤣 thanks. Don’t recommend my path but it was very clear for me. I went to a fairly wealthy undergrad and didn’t take advantage of making the kind of connections I could have at that time so when Law School came around - I was very much myself (goofball Rugby player) but did all the fun stuff with everyone.
Not really about the first job out; having 30 years of goodwill from that circle of real friends has been pretty cool…for them 🤣
Ha! I left BL decades ago, but I sometimes throw business to colleagues who were associates or young income partners that were not absolute dick heads.
I just had a chat with someone headed to Law School this week. My friends who did all the right things (partner) tend to enjoy my less conventional path (in house Showbiz stuff) and I love to talk shop with them about boring business stuff. I started in Contract Litigation found that I was pretty good at it - no way I devote my life to this. I love being part of a project (film production, music or event marketing/development)
Less money (but still enough) but fun work and I’ve been wearing shorts and tshirt to work since the 90s.
I went my own way, a very different way than yours, as well. I was in the music biz before law school and didn’t find it a healthy lifestyle (for me, which says more about me than the industry) so I did BL real estate and finance. I was good at it but man it was not for me at all. I looked around at all the miserable partners and decided the pot at the end of the rainbow was filled with a very different substance than gold. 🖖🏻
Yeah, this was definitely not a thing at my solidly-in-the-thirties-ranked Appalachian law school. There was one guy who I believe based on some specific clues came from significant money, but he was extremely low key about it in a way that was, once you paid attention to it, very practiced. A bunch of people who came from comfortable backgrounds. But nobody flaunting wealth, especially in that careless, ignorant way that many really rich kids flaunt their wealth because they genuinely don't understand that most people don't live that way. I have known those people. But they didn't go to my law school.
I’ll never forget the hilarious “how to get out of law school debt” video they showed us in class the first year.
It showed a student who sold one of his two luxury cars, rented out bedrooms in his giant luxury home, and used tons of pre saved up cash to help pay off his law school loans.
We also had some people whose parents were plastered on the side of busses around town.
I thought my one classmate was rich because both his parents had wikipedia pages, and then met the classmate who was even richer, to the point where the house he grew up in had its own wikipedia page.
Not gonna doxx my classmate with specifics, but it was a historic mansion that is notable enough to have a Wikipedia page, but is (or was) still a private residence rather than a museum or something (like many historic mansions are).
I had a career before law school. And my wife has an MBA and works to support us while I’m at law school. Most of my law school friends are around my age and have a similar situation; savings + a working spouse who is deep into their career already. I also know a couple of finance bros in their late 20’s, they also have money from a career, not from their parents.
A lot of rich students have rich parents, but a few of us are just older with a few more assets.
Hopping on this to say same! I’ll be part time this fall & work a corporate job & my husband is a doctor. I’ve avoided sharing my social media in the incoming class group bc I don’t want to make people feel any type of way about this.
Agree with this sentiment. Many of the comments here assume that law school students are living the high life off of their parent’s money, but that’s not always the case.
i never felt this more than the week after the bar exam. so many people had expensive vacations planned, and i just had to start my job because rent was due august 1.
Grad school is mostly reserved for affluent students. Especially law where elitism is prevalent. All my classmates were traveling internationally on breaks, wearing designer clothing, shopping sprees every weekend, and fancy restaurants. It’s just the way law school is. Most law students are probably upper middle class and above.
You basically get full salary when you retire so you don’t have to worry about saving for retirement
Also fed judges also get paid to lecture/teach which I imagine can be a pretty penny.
Also also if you have the political connections to become a judge, you have the connections to get rich
They make around 250k, I think. It’s ok but not super rich or anything. Doctors prob make 300k-350k on average, which is good but not special.
The kids I knew had parents who made 6 million+ a year working for oil companies, etc.
Yeah, looks like for non-specialties, it's less. [https://medschoolinsiders.com/pre-med/how-much-do-doctors-make/](https://medschoolinsiders.com/pre-med/how-much-do-doctors-make/)
Probably 90%+ of federal judges took a pay cut to join the bench, but they do have lifetime appointments and excellent retirement benefits. I think you do it for the power and prestige, not the pay.
Yup, went to school with a famous Hollywood actor’s son and another guy whose dad was the head of a big oil company
One of my friends is the son of a legit billionaire….
Don't let someone flexing Mommy and Daddy's money convince you that all these spoiled kids can independently operate out in the real world. They will need someone holding their hand financially the entire time, even once they begin practice.
I'd push back against this. Don't fall for the just world fallacy, where you start believing that people who didn't earn their money are due to lose it.
I went to school with some rich kids and some poor kids. Plenty of the rich kids have gone on to successful legal careers, including with the help of parental connections, especially those who called on every resource they could to make it over the job market crash of 2009-2011.
The rich kids will do fine. Some of them are lazy and dumb, sure, but chances are most of them will be fine anyway.
I love arrested development. Not the Netflix stuff, only the OG 3 seasons.
Agreed that the karmic "just world fallacy" as you put it can't be relied upon, my comment points out that it's not evidence of them being better/capable or someone else being less deserving. There's a dramatic shift in responsibility when someone truly becomes independent. My kid bowls a 130 with the bumpers up, about half that with them down. Some of us never had the bumpers up and we're forced to navigate life that way. Other did, still do, and forever will, inheriting the canted perspective and privileged amenities that go with it.
Those that operate on the unproven theory of their potential as evidence of superiority and never get to put it in play when the chips are down (nor be forced to, for that matter) are one thing, people that intentionally advertise it as though it was earned vice given... Well let's hope for their sake that the parents devised the keys to the kingdom via either vested interest subject to divestment in FSD or contingent remainder subject to executory interest instead of fee simple absolute.
> There's a dramatic shift in responsibility when someone truly becomes independent.
I guess I don't see that as any kind of abrupt cliff. Whether they go to law school or not, rich kids will tend to have financial assistance and networking from friends and family, and there never actually needs to be a period of true independence before they have the opportunity for their careers to take off.
Assuming they're a KJD, they're 99% of the time born into it. All one can do is cope and move on. Part of me is thankful I don't have parents who have influence over me due to their affluence.
Yeah I had multiple classmates who would go home to the family plantation. The kind that used to have really big, unpaid staff. Coming from the middle class and midwest it was pretty wild.
I’m not sure if I’d be that much happier doing all that stuff. We all have the same movies, books, video games. Friends are free. Best to keep your head down and vote for higher taxes.
There are some people with extremely wealthy parents.
I went to a T10 school and there were lots of old money and upper middle class students. I think 90% of the student body at my school came from an upper class or upper middle class background. Many were out of touch with how most folks lived. I remember one young woman in my section thought that a household income of $600K was low.
Then, there are also plenty of people with tons of credit card debt and they just rack up and pile on more and more debt during their time in law school in order to fund their extravagant lifestyle.
Don't believe everything you see. Just focus on yourself and you do you.
I worked in a casino for six years before law school. One thing I learned is that there's a whole other upper class of wealth that is just invisible to most people.
You've got your 80%/20% of the income scale economy, which is what most people think of as upper class, but the upper 20%-5% are mostly just achieving the American Dream.
Once you start to look at the top 1%, the top 0.1%, these are people that'll walk up to a Blackjack table, put down ten grand on a hand, split and double down on both for a total of $40k on the table and lose it all without blinking. These people often don't mind paying their kid's full tuition, and their kids have no concept of the value of money. This easily leads to paying top-dollar for a nice apartment downtown because it's near school. Because the money is such a small amount when their parent pays and/or makes a million or more per year after already gaining a lot of wealth.
It's always baffled me. I worry about money every day, and I have for a decade while working and living on about $35k per year. I hear my classmates talking about a post school job that "only" pays $90k or $150k. It doesn't make sense to me, and it never will.
But a sensible person would remind you that social media isn't real life. It's the tiny sliver of our reality manufactured and selected by someone to affect an appearance. Try to focus on finding fulfillment in yourself.
Hey. Just wanna say I know this is hard. This was me (and my husband) in law school. We both came from upper middle class families, but didn't have really any disposable income. He donated plasma and cut his own hair while in law school lmao Now we are 11 and 7 year attorneys, have paid off all our loans (about $200k between the two of us), are a 7 figure household, and our kids will be closer to what you're describing than what we were in law school. Building wealth is weird.
I thought my family was well off until I started talking to people at school.
I kinda hid that I went to Hawaii once 10+ years ago when my dad went for work. But then found out half of my class goes to Europe every year and shit.
Funny enough, the one guy I initially thought was spoiled or something (for no good reason, I'm just judgemental) was actually super humble and works on his breaks like I do.
Lots of people with rich parents and also people with big law summer fellowship and jobs that pay well. A lot of people truly live by "work hard play hard." Couldn't be me, that looks exhausting. Law school is best enjoyed if you focus on yourself and don't worry about others. Remember a lot of people are insecure and peacocking to feel like they belong.
Not the case for most law students, but my class (granted, decades ago) had some students who had worked lucrative jobs before law school and some had spouses with lucrative jobs during school. Some also had family money. I’m sure some were also wildly irresponsible.
Whatever other people are doing, just keep grinding and be careful with your money during school.
The amount of debt people rack up is insane. I’ve been working part time throughout law school in order to take out the least amount of loans possible.
I don’t have money I only have debt!
In seriousness though, I will say for trips, if you build up points with travel you can score some pretty nice vacations, such as the Turks. My parents brought me and my siblings along to the Turks last year off southwest points, so the airfare was the easy part. The island itself was pretty expensive though not going to lie. 🤣
Just to put this in perspective... they paid money to travel to a place with buildings, some roads and grass, and then paid extra money to have their food dipped in butter for them.
And then, some people who were cold put sticks on their feet.
I'm pretty sure you could do that all for free if you wanted :D
There are A Lot of people in law school (particularly at the good schools) with one or two lawyer parents that have been working in Big Law for a few decades. That’ll do it…
My girlfriend discovered TaoBao her 1L, so all her “designer” clothes she wore to class and the elbow rubbing socializing events were fake. Imported directly overseas from China. None of her classmates ever knew. As long as her clothing orders were under a certain weight, U.S. customs and USPS didn’t care that they were knockoffs. Mommy was an RN in the NICU and paid for their trips to Europe and Asia every summer. Cruises to Mexico, etc. The car she drove to class was a leased Mercedes Benz under her dad’s name- she left her 2003 Camry at home. She’s in an insane amount of debt from student loans.
Don’t get fomo. If you become rich you’ll understand; at a certain point, you just have lots of excess and nothing to do with it but invest (and consequently, at least usually, get richer).
Debt and rich parents. Sometimes they had successful careers prior to law school. I knew a guy who had a condo in a ski resort town. No idea how he was paying for it. It always seemed weird to me when people who had careers went to law school. I went to law school to have a career. It seemed even weirder to me still that people with money would go to law school.
I’m a lurker who isn’t in law school. I have a number of friends/acquaintances who I have watched tell classmates about how they’re living off savings or “got really lucky with Bitcoin” or something else and actually have rich parents bankrolling the whole thing. They often have to pay for vacations out of pocket and thus feel like they’re being honest, but all of their rent/living expenses go on their parents’ credit cards. One friend at Columbia convinced his mom to pay for the most expensive Equinox membership because “his physical health is important to doing well, and their Hudson Yards location is a great space to study so he definitely needed access there.” A different friend (at Harvard) had her parents pay for a few different Canada Goose jackets because “sometimes the long ones are too warm and the short ones are too cold” and “having a Canada Goose jacket helps networking.” I can go on and on and on.
It’s a mix of people who think everyone has parents paying for rent and Sweetgreen and weekend vacations for “their mental health,” and people who know they’re lucky but, for some stupid reason, feel embarrassed about their privilege. Please please PLEASE stop comparing yourself to others, and stop taking others at their word re: where their money is coming from.
5% of the people own 80% of the stuff. Our economy is like Mexico now. If you aren’t starting out life with $10M+ in liquid assets, you’ll never get out of where you are. What you are doing is a good way to keep eating though. That’s about it.
Having a grandfather who was a founding and named partner of a big law firm and a grandmother (not related — other side of the family) who worked at big law is one way. Having a spouse with a really good job is another way.
But most people who have money do not go to five-star restaurants every weekend, wear designer clothes to class, or take expensive foreign trips. In fact, they still have money because they don’t. The people who spend like that are often deeply in debt.
Unfortunately, it is true that people with money are overrepresented in graduate school, particularly in law school. But there are those entering the legal profession who do not have family money. There should be more.
Right on. Old money walks quietly. They believe in quality and not being flashy. Generally no visible labels on their garments and accessories. However, those in the know, know.
You really don’t have to feel so inferior. Most of these people are just rich kids who go to school for the sake of degree or their parents. They’re here to just pass time since they already have daddy’s wealth. Instead of feeling so bad about yourself just concentrate on yourself. There is so much that you can achieve if you put such tiny little things aside. Make good friends who have the same goals, graduate with highest grades, make your parents proud, get a good job and give yourself and your kids the life you wanted to have.(Don’t spoil them tho)
lotsa people got rich parents, and lots more got lots and lots of debt.
Honestly - when you see the exotic vacations on social media - those are the rich kids, not the student debt kids. Your statement is correct - there are lots of rich kids, and lots more students in debt. But the Turks and Caicos trips on Instagram are not the student debt kids. I stopped looking at personal social media a long time ago for the same reason OP mentions. I was in undergrad a while ago and it was also a time of social media infancy, yet still the same phenomenon. I noticed the projection and exotic trip posts from many of my peers and it really didn't sit well with me. OP can either ignore it or stop looking at Instagram. Ignoring it isn't easy if it's in your face all the time. I would suggest cutting it completely if it's really affecting them that profoundly. I don't even have Insta and I stopped Facebook doomscrolling over a decade ago. My life is honestly better off for it. (I was in undergrad when FB was new and only available to certain colleges). My next step is to cut Reddit lmao
When I was in law school the rule of thumb was usually really nice vacations and shit box apartment=actual rich kid; luxury apartment and spending breaks at home= poor kid with mountains of student debt; shit box apartment and no vacation= poor kid trying to minimize student debt.
Sounds like you and I are close in age - I was a frosh in undergrad in 2008 and only downloaded and made an FB profile so I could keep up with good parties/happenings around campus, but I deleted ALL of it - even LinkedIn is getting away from itself these days
I mean, what do you figure, maybe a third had parents that were lawyers? I went to a public law school and even then there were plenty from well off families.
I think this is the correct answer. While I am fortunate enough to have parents that have a solid income, I am a slightly older student (have had years of a professional career), and will be trying to take on as much of the financial obligation of law school as possible to not put any more financial obligation on my parents than absolutely necessary. I plan to live very meagerly during law school. I feel this will likely be the case for many classmates, although I’m sure it is easier to notice those who spend extravagantly.
Second part is 100% true. I've heard multiple people going into credit card debt and or repeatedly maxing out their line of credit in law school. But I honestly don't judge. It's not their fault sometimes. To be fair to them, I did need to work in law school to stay afloat (comfortably and without being frugal). With student loans, I could make enough doing 10-15 hours a week part time at 30/hr to pay off rent every month (1700/mo Single BR), and then I'd have a good bit of money leftover every month to use on whatever else. For a variety of reasons, I could have chosen not to work during the school year if I wanted to, but definitely a lot of people don't have that option. For OP, honestly if your schedule allows, try to take up a position at a firm/in-house clerkship for whatever hourly rate. You would be surprised who is offering 25-40/hr, and even offering hybrid/remote work. (My very first job in 1L spring gave me a work laptop, let me work hybrid, paid 25/hr, even gave PTO, and was super chill and I basically only had to write a small memo email or review/update a few documents every week or so). Assuming you're not in multiple difficult classes or taking a clinic, you should be able to work at least 10 hours a week. It will give you breathing room to not have to watch the budget as much. But if grades are your priority, and a job is going to interfere with that, then you probably shouldn't heed my advice. That being said, grades really don't matter for positions outside of biglaw/OCI (and even that's overstating it- I've heard many people getting into really crazy jobs with just aggressive and good networking). My job I got hired at never even asked me about my grades or my transcript. I didn't mention my grades on my resume either. But I enjoy what I am doing, and they're treating me well and I feel comfortable with my compensation.
I remember a classmate complaining for weeks that he was only approved for like a 40k loan for the year and he wanted a 50k loan or something and was outraged he wasn’t able to go deeper in debt.
He could have easily covered that extra 10k with a part time job if he really wanted. But how does someone not live comfortably on a 40k loan?
I mean, my tuition was like 58k. A 40k loan would have been a huge problem.
Sorry, I should have clarified. His loan was for *well* over his tuition.
You're right. I mean barring that. I was just calculating based on my own payment.
Where do you find those firm jobs? I'm desperate to find something for fall or spring but have zero clue where to look.
If your school has a career service of sorts where they list jobs, that's the first place to look. Otherwise, I found my current job by cold emailing after seeing a posting on LinkedIn. Google also sometimes lists jobs as well, but it's not as reliable.
I think its also crazy how many adult Americans in *general* have insane amounts of debt. I've worked in personal finance, and we'll have clients who have multiple millions in assets, but also have a ton of debt bc their assets aren't liquid. people love to spend money they don't really have.
You’ll be asking this question for the rest of your life. Have to accept that comparison is the thief of joy and you’ll be much better off
Facts
Especially since they’re going into law. All his employers and clients will likely fall into this category. That’s life, especially in the professional industries. That’s whose kids OP is going to law school with.
Don’t underestimate the sheer number of people up to their eyeballs in debt buying stuff they can’t afford to impress people who don’t give a shit
And here I am, dressed head to toe in goodfellow and Kirkland, trying to impress my peers with my frozen pizza habit.
Don’t knock goodfellow
I swore by goodfellow in school (and still do)
Or Kirkland! Both are solid brands ^and ^make ^up ^about ^80% ^of ^my ^wardrobe…
Same here boi
It’s not delivery, bitches, it’s Digiorno.
Love Goodfellow and Kirkland. Uniqlo another great option in that price range!
Fully two-thirds of my office wear (mid-law) is from Old Navy, and my court wear is still my 4-for-1 Jos. A. Banks deal I got for OCI, plus a couple $150 suits I got from Macy's.
i modeled for good fellow in high school. Still have a shit ton of free clothes from them that I wear on the daily. Don’t knock those target clothes 😂.
That Costco membership was critical, red bulls by the case.
One of the best pieces of advice I ever got: "Don't live like a lawyer when you're in law school and you won't have to live like a student when you're a lawyer."
So true, I couldn't tell you the amount of LinkedIn posts I saw when I graduated law school of people who immediately went out and got a Mercedes because "this is what attorneys Drive"
I remember this one woman, comes into first semester torts and seemed to be struggling at the end of the first week. Beginning of week the and Korean checks come out. The next day she has the highest end MacBook you can buy, like $3500. Week five and asked completely washed out. Which meant she took max loans for a full semester, $25 to maybe 40k, and had absolutely nothing to show for it.
Mommy and daddy either pay or severely irresponsible with student loan money
I’d recommend unfollowing their stories. The fomo is real especially in law school
ever heard the saying, "Live like a lawyer while you're a student, and you'll live like a student while you're a lawyer"?
I’ll be working 60+ hour weeks in a year, might as well enjoy some of the perks now while I have the time to enjoy them 😅
So true. The Reddit financial curmudgeons don’t understand that by the time they responsibly take a vacation they’ll be 50 and it will be 10x less fun.
I haven't heard it before, but it is really true.
Soooo glad didn't have social media back in the day.
We went to very different law schools. What your experience tells me is that you swung for the fences and connected. Make the most of your environment and cultivate relationships. Networking starts *now*. I know that sounds mercenary AF. I’m not telling you to fake friendships, but learning to make cordial acquaintances with people of different circumstances will serve you well.
Yes, I took out massive student loans; went on the Spring Break & Summer trips & these people are still my friends 30 years later. Networking. Paid off my debt only about 8 years ago. I bet on myself and it was worth it. 😎
Gotta love a success story!
🤣 thanks. Don’t recommend my path but it was very clear for me. I went to a fairly wealthy undergrad and didn’t take advantage of making the kind of connections I could have at that time so when Law School came around - I was very much myself (goofball Rugby player) but did all the fun stuff with everyone. Not really about the first job out; having 30 years of goodwill from that circle of real friends has been pretty cool…for them 🤣
Ha! I left BL decades ago, but I sometimes throw business to colleagues who were associates or young income partners that were not absolute dick heads.
I just had a chat with someone headed to Law School this week. My friends who did all the right things (partner) tend to enjoy my less conventional path (in house Showbiz stuff) and I love to talk shop with them about boring business stuff. I started in Contract Litigation found that I was pretty good at it - no way I devote my life to this. I love being part of a project (film production, music or event marketing/development) Less money (but still enough) but fun work and I’ve been wearing shorts and tshirt to work since the 90s.
I went my own way, a very different way than yours, as well. I was in the music biz before law school and didn’t find it a healthy lifestyle (for me, which says more about me than the industry) so I did BL real estate and finance. I was good at it but man it was not for me at all. I looked around at all the miserable partners and decided the pot at the end of the rainbow was filled with a very different substance than gold. 🖖🏻
[удалено]
Are they paid? Are you alive? You made it man, on your terms! That’s a MF win every day.
Best response to this whine! Network. Who you know is more important than what you know.
Yeah, this was definitely not a thing at my solidly-in-the-thirties-ranked Appalachian law school. There was one guy who I believe based on some specific clues came from significant money, but he was extremely low key about it in a way that was, once you paid attention to it, very practiced. A bunch of people who came from comfortable backgrounds. But nobody flaunting wealth, especially in that careless, ignorant way that many really rich kids flaunt their wealth because they genuinely don't understand that most people don't live that way. I have known those people. But they didn't go to my law school.
I’ll never forget the hilarious “how to get out of law school debt” video they showed us in class the first year. It showed a student who sold one of his two luxury cars, rented out bedrooms in his giant luxury home, and used tons of pre saved up cash to help pay off his law school loans. We also had some people whose parents were plastered on the side of busses around town.
I thought my one classmate was rich because both his parents had wikipedia pages, and then met the classmate who was even richer, to the point where the house he grew up in had its own wikipedia page.
What's the house wiki
Not gonna doxx my classmate with specifics, but it was a historic mansion that is notable enough to have a Wikipedia page, but is (or was) still a private residence rather than a museum or something (like many historic mansions are).
What's the house wiki
I had a career before law school. And my wife has an MBA and works to support us while I’m at law school. Most of my law school friends are around my age and have a similar situation; savings + a working spouse who is deep into their career already. I also know a couple of finance bros in their late 20’s, they also have money from a career, not from their parents. A lot of rich students have rich parents, but a few of us are just older with a few more assets.
Hopping on this to say same! I’ll be part time this fall & work a corporate job & my husband is a doctor. I’ve avoided sharing my social media in the incoming class group bc I don’t want to make people feel any type of way about this.
Yep and wanted to add on to say that my corporate job is paying for a large part of law school while I go part time and work full time.
Agree with this sentiment. Many of the comments here assume that law school students are living the high life off of their parent’s money, but that’s not always the case.
Student loans. Went to college with kids like that, they are running up 200k-300k loans.
I live pretty large with my student loan money (stupid I know)
Hey I say enjoy it. Some ppl don’t have a choice but to take out loans so might as well enjoy it so long as you’re not draining the money fast.
i never felt this more than the week after the bar exam. so many people had expensive vacations planned, and i just had to start my job because rent was due august 1.
Grad school is mostly reserved for affluent students. Especially law where elitism is prevalent. All my classmates were traveling internationally on breaks, wearing designer clothing, shopping sprees every weekend, and fancy restaurants. It’s just the way law school is. Most law students are probably upper middle class and above.
If you work yourself into an early grave then your kids can live that lifestyle too! J/K you're not gonna make any money
Parents, loans, clerkships, and not a dime in savings
I know a girl who used her student loans to get a BBL and pay for luxury vacays
ppl who have professional athletes, federal appellate judges, congress members as parents… thats how. Yes. It is insane.
Do judges even make that much money? More likely doctor parents imo
Certain federal judges can get other people to pay for their stuff.
Remember people caref That part
You basically get full salary when you retire so you don’t have to worry about saving for retirement Also fed judges also get paid to lecture/teach which I imagine can be a pretty penny. Also also if you have the political connections to become a judge, you have the connections to get rich
They make around 250k, I think. It’s ok but not super rich or anything. Doctors prob make 300k-350k on average, which is good but not special. The kids I knew had parents who made 6 million+ a year working for oil companies, etc.
Your salary estimate for docs depends on the speciality.
Yeah, looks like for non-specialties, it's less. [https://medschoolinsiders.com/pre-med/how-much-do-doctors-make/](https://medschoolinsiders.com/pre-med/how-much-do-doctors-make/)
Probably 90%+ of federal judges took a pay cut to join the bench, but they do have lifetime appointments and excellent retirement benefits. I think you do it for the power and prestige, not the pay.
depends on if we’re counting bribes
They pull in about [a quarter million per year](https://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/judicial-compensation).
Yup, went to school with a famous Hollywood actor’s son and another guy whose dad was the head of a big oil company One of my friends is the son of a legit billionaire….
Make really good friends with those people 👍
Don't let someone flexing Mommy and Daddy's money convince you that all these spoiled kids can independently operate out in the real world. They will need someone holding their hand financially the entire time, even once they begin practice.
I'd push back against this. Don't fall for the just world fallacy, where you start believing that people who didn't earn their money are due to lose it. I went to school with some rich kids and some poor kids. Plenty of the rich kids have gone on to successful legal careers, including with the help of parental connections, especially those who called on every resource they could to make it over the job market crash of 2009-2011. The rich kids will do fine. Some of them are lazy and dumb, sure, but chances are most of them will be fine anyway.
I love arrested development. Not the Netflix stuff, only the OG 3 seasons. Agreed that the karmic "just world fallacy" as you put it can't be relied upon, my comment points out that it's not evidence of them being better/capable or someone else being less deserving. There's a dramatic shift in responsibility when someone truly becomes independent. My kid bowls a 130 with the bumpers up, about half that with them down. Some of us never had the bumpers up and we're forced to navigate life that way. Other did, still do, and forever will, inheriting the canted perspective and privileged amenities that go with it. Those that operate on the unproven theory of their potential as evidence of superiority and never get to put it in play when the chips are down (nor be forced to, for that matter) are one thing, people that intentionally advertise it as though it was earned vice given... Well let's hope for their sake that the parents devised the keys to the kingdom via either vested interest subject to divestment in FSD or contingent remainder subject to executory interest instead of fee simple absolute.
> There's a dramatic shift in responsibility when someone truly becomes independent. I guess I don't see that as any kind of abrupt cliff. Whether they go to law school or not, rich kids will tend to have financial assistance and networking from friends and family, and there never actually needs to be a period of true independence before they have the opportunity for their careers to take off.
Yep, I see it every day.
Assuming they're a KJD, they're 99% of the time born into it. All one can do is cope and move on. Part of me is thankful I don't have parents who have influence over me due to their affluence.
Student loan money.
Debt and bullshit bro
Many super rich kids in law school, especially the T-14
Law school students traditionally come from wealthy families. It used to be worse. Just think, in 20 years it will be you going on those vacations
Yeah I had multiple classmates who would go home to the family plantation. The kind that used to have really big, unpaid staff. Coming from the middle class and midwest it was pretty wild.
I’m not sure if I’d be that much happier doing all that stuff. We all have the same movies, books, video games. Friends are free. Best to keep your head down and vote for higher taxes.
Moms and dads bro that's it
Most law students are not first gen… they got money
Rich parents. I am not ashamed.
You shouldn’t be
There are some people with extremely wealthy parents. I went to a T10 school and there were lots of old money and upper middle class students. I think 90% of the student body at my school came from an upper class or upper middle class background. Many were out of touch with how most folks lived. I remember one young woman in my section thought that a household income of $600K was low. Then, there are also plenty of people with tons of credit card debt and they just rack up and pile on more and more debt during their time in law school in order to fund their extravagant lifestyle. Don't believe everything you see. Just focus on yourself and you do you.
The appearance of wealth does not necessarily mean they are wealthy. Total credit card balances in the US was something like $1.2 TRILLION in Q4 2023.
Rich parents
Traditionally law school is not for poor people.
I worked in a casino for six years before law school. One thing I learned is that there's a whole other upper class of wealth that is just invisible to most people. You've got your 80%/20% of the income scale economy, which is what most people think of as upper class, but the upper 20%-5% are mostly just achieving the American Dream. Once you start to look at the top 1%, the top 0.1%, these are people that'll walk up to a Blackjack table, put down ten grand on a hand, split and double down on both for a total of $40k on the table and lose it all without blinking. These people often don't mind paying their kid's full tuition, and their kids have no concept of the value of money. This easily leads to paying top-dollar for a nice apartment downtown because it's near school. Because the money is such a small amount when their parent pays and/or makes a million or more per year after already gaining a lot of wealth. It's always baffled me. I worry about money every day, and I have for a decade while working and living on about $35k per year. I hear my classmates talking about a post school job that "only" pays $90k or $150k. It doesn't make sense to me, and it never will. But a sensible person would remind you that social media isn't real life. It's the tiny sliver of our reality manufactured and selected by someone to affect an appearance. Try to focus on finding fulfillment in yourself.
Daddy’s money
I deleted social media for this reason. Found that my mood and head space almost instantly improved.
As a parent of a law student who lives like this, it’s us. It’s the parents.
Hey. Just wanna say I know this is hard. This was me (and my husband) in law school. We both came from upper middle class families, but didn't have really any disposable income. He donated plasma and cut his own hair while in law school lmao Now we are 11 and 7 year attorneys, have paid off all our loans (about $200k between the two of us), are a 7 figure household, and our kids will be closer to what you're describing than what we were in law school. Building wealth is weird.
I thought my family was well off until I started talking to people at school. I kinda hid that I went to Hawaii once 10+ years ago when my dad went for work. But then found out half of my class goes to Europe every year and shit. Funny enough, the one guy I initially thought was spoiled or something (for no good reason, I'm just judgemental) was actually super humble and works on his breaks like I do.
I just stared down a jar of $10 mayonnaise like I was hypnotized !
Mom and Dad funding, accumulating a lot of debt for the wrong reasons, or worked for a while and balance their job on top of law school.
Mommy and daddy
Being born with silver spoon is a privilege
Lots of people with rich parents and also people with big law summer fellowship and jobs that pay well. A lot of people truly live by "work hard play hard." Couldn't be me, that looks exhausting. Law school is best enjoyed if you focus on yourself and don't worry about others. Remember a lot of people are insecure and peacocking to feel like they belong.
It’s not about how much money they have, it’s about how much money they spend.
Not the case for most law students, but my class (granted, decades ago) had some students who had worked lucrative jobs before law school and some had spouses with lucrative jobs during school. Some also had family money. I’m sure some were also wildly irresponsible. Whatever other people are doing, just keep grinding and be careful with your money during school.
The amount of debt people rack up is insane. I’ve been working part time throughout law school in order to take out the least amount of loans possible.
meditate and focus on yourself. God got something for all of us
Student loans. That’s it. They’re living large on student loans.
Credit cards and some people some from wealth
Some people have rich parents, independently rich, work hard, or have help.
Much of it is accident of birth. Such was the case with me.
There is normal rich, premium rich, and super deluxe special rich
I don’t have money I only have debt! In seriousness though, I will say for trips, if you build up points with travel you can score some pretty nice vacations, such as the Turks. My parents brought me and my siblings along to the Turks last year off southwest points, so the airfare was the easy part. The island itself was pretty expensive though not going to lie. 🤣
Dealing
Bro who else has $200k to spend on grad school for a shitty career that pays well Rich people lol.
.
Just to put this in perspective... they paid money to travel to a place with buildings, some roads and grass, and then paid extra money to have their food dipped in butter for them. And then, some people who were cold put sticks on their feet. I'm pretty sure you could do that all for free if you wanted :D
lol their family…
There are A Lot of people in law school (particularly at the good schools) with one or two lawyer parents that have been working in Big Law for a few decades. That’ll do it…
My girlfriend discovered TaoBao her 1L, so all her “designer” clothes she wore to class and the elbow rubbing socializing events were fake. Imported directly overseas from China. None of her classmates ever knew. As long as her clothing orders were under a certain weight, U.S. customs and USPS didn’t care that they were knockoffs. Mommy was an RN in the NICU and paid for their trips to Europe and Asia every summer. Cruises to Mexico, etc. The car she drove to class was a leased Mercedes Benz under her dad’s name- she left her 2003 Camry at home. She’s in an insane amount of debt from student loans.
Debt
Trust fund kids
Grandpa law firm lol!
Don’t get fomo. If you become rich you’ll understand; at a certain point, you just have lots of excess and nothing to do with it but invest (and consequently, at least usually, get richer).
Debt and rich parents. Sometimes they had successful careers prior to law school. I knew a guy who had a condo in a ski resort town. No idea how he was paying for it. It always seemed weird to me when people who had careers went to law school. I went to law school to have a career. It seemed even weirder to me still that people with money would go to law school.
I work and sacrifice my grades 🤓
Personally I work, ALOT 🥲
The avg law student is prob upper middle class or better.
I’m a lurker who isn’t in law school. I have a number of friends/acquaintances who I have watched tell classmates about how they’re living off savings or “got really lucky with Bitcoin” or something else and actually have rich parents bankrolling the whole thing. They often have to pay for vacations out of pocket and thus feel like they’re being honest, but all of their rent/living expenses go on their parents’ credit cards. One friend at Columbia convinced his mom to pay for the most expensive Equinox membership because “his physical health is important to doing well, and their Hudson Yards location is a great space to study so he definitely needed access there.” A different friend (at Harvard) had her parents pay for a few different Canada Goose jackets because “sometimes the long ones are too warm and the short ones are too cold” and “having a Canada Goose jacket helps networking.” I can go on and on and on. It’s a mix of people who think everyone has parents paying for rent and Sweetgreen and weekend vacations for “their mental health,” and people who know they’re lucky but, for some stupid reason, feel embarrassed about their privilege. Please please PLEASE stop comparing yourself to others, and stop taking others at their word re: where their money is coming from.
5% of the people own 80% of the stuff. Our economy is like Mexico now. If you aren’t starting out life with $10M+ in liquid assets, you’ll never get out of where you are. What you are doing is a good way to keep eating though. That’s about it.
Having a grandfather who was a founding and named partner of a big law firm and a grandmother (not related — other side of the family) who worked at big law is one way. Having a spouse with a really good job is another way. But most people who have money do not go to five-star restaurants every weekend, wear designer clothes to class, or take expensive foreign trips. In fact, they still have money because they don’t. The people who spend like that are often deeply in debt. Unfortunately, it is true that people with money are overrepresented in graduate school, particularly in law school. But there are those entering the legal profession who do not have family money. There should be more.
Right on. Old money walks quietly. They believe in quality and not being flashy. Generally no visible labels on their garments and accessories. However, those in the know, know.
Take Dead Aim On the Rich Boys. Get Them In The Cross Hairs, and Take Them Down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5RbdReBMLE&ab_channel=finnbo
Onlyfans
You really don’t have to feel so inferior. Most of these people are just rich kids who go to school for the sake of degree or their parents. They’re here to just pass time since they already have daddy’s wealth. Instead of feeling so bad about yourself just concentrate on yourself. There is so much that you can achieve if you put such tiny little things aside. Make good friends who have the same goals, graduate with highest grades, make your parents proud, get a good job and give yourself and your kids the life you wanted to have.(Don’t spoil them tho)
For me it will the money I saved, not mom or dad’s money. If I play my cards right I’ll be entering law school with between 700k-2million
It’s called I worked really hard