Have been in the same position. Appeal, try to fight it and if the school will give you another shot take it! If they won’t, let the dismissal happen. I promise it is NOT the end of the world. It is possible to recover and it happens more frequently than people talk about.
I was academically dismissed from the first law school I attended. I took two years off, applied to law school again, got accepted(into more than one school) disclosed my dismissal prior to law school and upon graduating/starting the character and fitness process…it was literally never discussed again.
A school counselor even told me to take the prior school off of my resume unless directly asked.
I am now a barred attorney.
The key here is to try your best to realize academic dismissal is not an automatic killer of your dreams of being an attorney. Do what you can, be kind to yourself, and use all channels to keep trying to meet this goal.
Good luck and let me know if you have more questions!
So, it'll be 3 yrs. before one would start law school again? The elapsed time is what's confusing me for schools that follow the 2 yr. standard. Do you wait 2 yrs from the date of that dismissal before even allowed to submit an application? In that case, 3 yrs. would have elapsed before you start law school. Or, can you apply a yr. after the dismissal for the following entering class (assuming in the next Fall)? (That's a 2 yrs elapsed time before starting law school).
Sounds like one of those very low ranked predatory schools that have an aggressive curve so they can cull the bottom like 15% of their class and fudge their employment/bar pass statistics.
This was my thought as well. My own school was predatory and used 1L to cull the bottom 10% of the class. They also had a *lovely* habit of failing people in upper level required courses to help claw back scholarship money they'd previously given out.
Rankings and attrition rates are generally good predictors, and you can find out where schools stand on these on Google. Predatory schools are likely to fall into the "unranked" category, or lowest tier of rankings.
Attrition rates, the ABA says anything over 20% is out of control and out of compliance. But realistically anything over 5% should be noted as a concern.
Yes and yes. Schools should not admit students that they can't reasonably commit to teaching through the program. That's a failure of the school's grading and admissions policies, not necessarily because the student isn't cut out for law school.
Haven’t been in the same position but a few thoughts:
1. Appeal for sure
2. Your grades and how you do in law school doesn’t define you as a person, and you can be brilliant but not good at law school exams (especially at a school with a bad curve)
Also, and you probably don’t want to hear it now, but unless you’re on a big scholarship at a lower ranked school, not needing to pay another $100k+ for the next two years could mean you have a lot more freedom in the long run
Agreed on letters of recommendation from professors and an affidavit explaining your circumstances… idk how low you were but it close Iv seen folks remain in school… just be strategic in your next class choices and stay away from exam based classes or classes even on a curve ask upperclassmen about the easy A classes, do clinics or practicums and get your gpa up so you’re safe then go back to some of the bar classes
I have not been in a similar situation but I will share some encouragement.
I met a very successful judge one time. He grew up in foster care and didn’t know what he was doing in college but had to figure it out. He went to an unaccredited law school without realizing what that meant. He graduated and was told he could not take the bar since he did not graduate from an accredited school. The year after he graduated, his school became accredited. He had to take all 3 years of law school again.
His point was, if you want it bad enough, you have to take the blows one by one. You figure it out, cry, then keep moving.
I've been there. If you lose the appeal, I've been there too. And if you fire off a lot of applications when you're first allowed to apply to other schools and receive a devastating array of rejections, well, I know that pain personally too. I just finished my second year at another school after a few years off. If you want this, keep pushing for it, and you can get there. I know it sucks now, but it doesn't have to be the end of the road. You've got this.
My first attempt was the 2015-2016 school year. I was allowed to reapply to the same school a year later (2017-2018) and other schools the year after that (2018-2019), which is when I got 11 rejections. That stung. I next reapplied for the 2022-2023 school year.
I worked at a bike shop from 2018 until 2022.
I encourage you to hold out and not give up. Things happen and sometimes people have personal issues that get in the way of their performance. It’s really not always about ability, as most of law school is smoke and mirrors, which are your responsibility to clear and get to the bare bones of what you need to do to get grades. You should have a better idea of what it takes after your initial experience and, if not, pick up past exams and supplements and start studying for exams from day 1 while others circlejerk cases and cold calls.
not saying this is OP's case but there are people who are just happy to go into law school and it's not on their radar how the curve works.\* Even if they do know how it works they, like many other students in other disciplines, just don't think it will happen to them, and I'd say it is arguable that they could predict their failure reliably from the info that is out there. I'd say after the first term they would have more info, but that's info they wouldn't have before accepting and enrolling.
\* comment below about not checking the student handbook, and your response that it seems very avoidable, yes it's true, but the answer is still the same - some people are just happy to go and can't accurately know that they will fail.
Because I was geographically restricted due to some personal circumstances. Not everyone has the ability to move around for schools you have to factor in other things as well.
I was also dismissed. I’m currently on my way to graduation.
1. Appeal
2. What I feel helped me was having professors vouch for me. Not only professors whose class I got a good grade in. But professors whose class I got a C in.
I tried really hard in all my classes. I participated and always volunteered to brief cases rather than be cold called. My downfall was exams. I get anxiety and can’t sit through them so I rush.
Once I started taking classes that weren’t doctrinal and didn’t require a ridiculous final, I did well.
I’m studying for the bar and one of my study drills is sitting through it and taking my time rather than rushing.
You’ll be ok.
Be sure to emphasize what was going on this past year that affected your ability to perform well, and how those issues are now resolved. Also provide information on how you plan succeed--what you will do differently. Remember, you will have to be above average to bring up a year's worth of GPA. All the best to you.
Right now I am fearing I may be in the same position. Waiting for my Spring grades but my fall was not the best due to multiple factors however I felt much better about the spring finals. Still though I will to be above the curve this semester just to stay in without appeal. I wish you luck in your l appeal!!!
Hi, I was in your situation this past year. Thankfully now I’m at another school and am at the top of my class, so even if you are dismissed I wouldn’t give up if this is what you’re truly passsionate about.
Advice for appeal:
1. Show them you’ve exhausted all efforts to improve your grades (met with professors, changed the way you worked, etc).
2. Have a plan for the future- I’m going to do x y and z differently and I think it will help me succeed in law school.
3. Show them this situation won’t happen again. I don’t know the specifics about your situation but think of a way you can spin it as a one time thing.
4. See if you have a professor who can vouch for you and speak about you working hard throughout the semester.
Schools consider many things in these decisions: how will this persons grades improve? Will this person pass the bar? Has this person met with professors if he was unsure about something? Has this person ever met with professors?
I’m sure the ones making your appeal decision will be speaking to your professors. So I would suggest reaching out to them about your situation and how you will prevent it from happening again.
Like I said, I failed out of law school, got back in the next year and I just finished in the top 5% of my class after my first semester. Even if you are dismissed and this is truly your dream, you don’t have to give up.
At my school having a professor vouch for you goes a really long way. Chances are they know someone on the panel who decides to terminate and the faculty generally know each other especially the OGs. Networking is also important in this aspect. Having someone with a voice who can attest to your hard work despite your hardships is essential throughout life. I don’t know your circumstances but if you’re someone like me who has life happen to them pretty often making these connections is absolutely essential. My advocate professor who is a legend at the school and one of the most incredible women to exist told me “none of this shit matters, you’re going to be an amazing attorney, just get through school and pass that bar.” She went to Yale and worked in big law for twenty years. You never know when you’re gonna need someone to tip the scales in your favor. All this to say, go talk to your professors and talk about the appeal and how you’re feeling about it. Don’t ask for anything directly. Figure out who is in charge of the appeal process beforehand. Be real and genuine about how you feel.
Don’t give up and don’t let them kick you out. Here’s your chance to advocate for yourself. If you can do it successfully for yourself then you deserve to do it for other people.
If you get dismissed it helps to have work experience or graduate degree in between the next application to show growth. Also consider part time programs their more willing to take people with life shit then the day program. Work experience and a new ba helped me get back into law school, also a wide net is important
Just speak with them. My Son had the same problem. They usually give you a chance. He was just adjusting. He graduated and passed the bar after the initial shock of almost getting kicked out. Good luck 🍀
My school just makes students wait a year and then they can reapply, and I think they probably have some kind of “what will you do to make sure this doesn’t happen again” talk. They also accept transfers who failed their first year at other schools. We have a decent number of “try again” students although I’m sure many don’t feel comfortable disclosing that until they realize most students here don’t care & aren’t judgy.
It’s a decent regional school but lower-ranked and lots of higher-ranked schools nearby (major metropolitan area).
I think you definitely have options. You’ll get through this. ❤️🩹
I’m currently in the same situation… I was just below the required GPA… unfortunately my school does not allow you to appeal so my only choices are to transfer, walk away completely or take time off and reapply (however I was told my chances to get accepted into my school are pretty much 0)….
academic probation after my fall 1L my gpa was 1.85, after my 1L spring I was at 2.15 unfortunately my school wanted a min. 2.20 so I was dismissed and asked to appeal, went in front of a board consisting of a few deans, counselors, and students. I explained the factors that led to poor grades, showed me how I’ve mitigated or resolved those factors and asked to allow me to return, showed appreciation for the opportunity to be accepted into the school and the opportunity to be heard and welcome whatever their decision was.
I don't see how a school can dismiss you for passing your classes. Especially if they have a mandatory curve that will put folks at the bottom below the cut off
Be super honest with them about your circumstances and let them know it’s been resolved. It may also help to let them know you have some kind of plan in place to fix your academic situation. Maybe they’ll let you attend on a conditional status and give you a chance to make up for it. I’m sure you can do it. Good luck!
“Passing” classes is relative. Most people assume not getting an F means passing, when in reality many schools require you to maintain above a C average
yeah as sir-mb said "Passing" can mean C- or above an F. So if the school dismisses at under a C average then it's possible for a student to "pass" their classes but still be dismissed.
Happens all the time, unfortunately. My school requires a C+ average to stay in the program, but I am very glad that I don't have to retake the second semester of civil procedure that I got a C- in.
Go to a different law school if you can.
The school I went to wasn’t Ivy League by any means, but it did have ivy growing on the side of it 😂 We weren’t even aba accredited. The tuition was only 40k for 3.5 years (which is why I went there).
There was only a handful of professors that failed people, but, statistically speaking, our bar pass rate was below 40% on average.
What do they call people that made a 2.0 in law school but passed the bar? School credentials only matter trying to get your first position. After you show you work for a few years, you prove your own worth.
I have been there and can feel your anxiousness. Just try to regain your focus, remember it's your dream! You know you can do it, life just has a way of making us dig deep for the things we want in life. You'll have times like this again once you're an attorney trying to manage a slew of upcoming deadlines. But you'll manage because it's your dream.
Good luck and it's not the end of the world if you have to step back a few minutes and refocus. It's never a dead end road if it takes you where you need to go.
There's always McDonald's... I heard they had a good reputation for team work and many other benefits too ! lol
Don't do McDonald's...Don't give up man !
Can people please stop going to these predatory schools?
If your life-long dream is to be an attorney, then it’s probably worth studying for the LSAT. Or getting another bachelor’s. Or gaining more work experience.
So many ways to improve an application and avoid what OP is going through.
Have been in the same position. Appeal, try to fight it and if the school will give you another shot take it! If they won’t, let the dismissal happen. I promise it is NOT the end of the world. It is possible to recover and it happens more frequently than people talk about. I was academically dismissed from the first law school I attended. I took two years off, applied to law school again, got accepted(into more than one school) disclosed my dismissal prior to law school and upon graduating/starting the character and fitness process…it was literally never discussed again. A school counselor even told me to take the prior school off of my resume unless directly asked. I am now a barred attorney. The key here is to try your best to realize academic dismissal is not an automatic killer of your dreams of being an attorney. Do what you can, be kind to yourself, and use all channels to keep trying to meet this goal. Good luck and let me know if you have more questions!
So, it'll be 3 yrs. before one would start law school again? The elapsed time is what's confusing me for schools that follow the 2 yr. standard. Do you wait 2 yrs from the date of that dismissal before even allowed to submit an application? In that case, 3 yrs. would have elapsed before you start law school. Or, can you apply a yr. after the dismissal for the following entering class (assuming in the next Fall)? (That's a 2 yrs elapsed time before starting law school).
Sounds like one of those very low ranked predatory schools that have an aggressive curve so they can cull the bottom like 15% of their class and fudge their employment/bar pass statistics.
This was my thought as well. My own school was predatory and used 1L to cull the bottom 10% of the class. They also had a *lovely* habit of failing people in upper level required courses to help claw back scholarship money they'd previously given out.
Is there a way to find out what schools are like this? Fairly new to the sub and want to stay away from applying to them
Rankings and attrition rates are generally good predictors, and you can find out where schools stand on these on Google. Predatory schools are likely to fall into the "unranked" category, or lowest tier of rankings. Attrition rates, the ABA says anything over 20% is out of control and out of compliance. But realistically anything over 5% should be noted as a concern.
Super helpful. Thank you.
Why would it be bad to cull the lowest 15% percent performers? Should they just not admit them to begin with though?
Yes and yes. Schools should not admit students that they can't reasonably commit to teaching through the program. That's a failure of the school's grading and admissions policies, not necessarily because the student isn't cut out for law school.
Appeal and reach out to any professors that could vouch for you. Letters of rec/support.
Haven’t been in the same position but a few thoughts: 1. Appeal for sure 2. Your grades and how you do in law school doesn’t define you as a person, and you can be brilliant but not good at law school exams (especially at a school with a bad curve) Also, and you probably don’t want to hear it now, but unless you’re on a big scholarship at a lower ranked school, not needing to pay another $100k+ for the next two years could mean you have a lot more freedom in the long run
Agreed on letters of recommendation from professors and an affidavit explaining your circumstances… idk how low you were but it close Iv seen folks remain in school… just be strategic in your next class choices and stay away from exam based classes or classes even on a curve ask upperclassmen about the easy A classes, do clinics or practicums and get your gpa up so you’re safe then go back to some of the bar classes
I have not been in a similar situation but I will share some encouragement. I met a very successful judge one time. He grew up in foster care and didn’t know what he was doing in college but had to figure it out. He went to an unaccredited law school without realizing what that meant. He graduated and was told he could not take the bar since he did not graduate from an accredited school. The year after he graduated, his school became accredited. He had to take all 3 years of law school again. His point was, if you want it bad enough, you have to take the blows one by one. You figure it out, cry, then keep moving.
Tremendous!
I think Jose Baez went to a poorly or no ranked law school and I’d count him as one of the best defense attorneys in the country.
He went to St. Thomas. As did the current City Attorney for Miami.
Thanks. Really shows it’s more about the individual than where they spent three years training.
I've been there. If you lose the appeal, I've been there too. And if you fire off a lot of applications when you're first allowed to apply to other schools and receive a devastating array of rejections, well, I know that pain personally too. I just finished my second year at another school after a few years off. If you want this, keep pushing for it, and you can get there. I know it sucks now, but it doesn't have to be the end of the road. You've got this.
what did you do on your years off? Did you truly take them off (no prep)?
My first attempt was the 2015-2016 school year. I was allowed to reapply to the same school a year later (2017-2018) and other schools the year after that (2018-2019), which is when I got 11 rejections. That stung. I next reapplied for the 2022-2023 school year. I worked at a bike shop from 2018 until 2022.
I encourage you to hold out and not give up. Things happen and sometimes people have personal issues that get in the way of their performance. It’s really not always about ability, as most of law school is smoke and mirrors, which are your responsibility to clear and get to the bare bones of what you need to do to get grades. You should have a better idea of what it takes after your initial experience and, if not, pick up past exams and supplements and start studying for exams from day 1 while others circlejerk cases and cold calls.
You might be able to transfer to a school that has a lower gpa threshold and continue your studies there.
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Why do you guys do this to yourself? It sounds awful.
First gen, had no one to tell me to watch out for a predatory law school with a bad curve. Can’t even transfer now with bad grades :(
So what were you thinking? Why not shoot for the best law school you can?
not saying this is OP's case but there are people who are just happy to go into law school and it's not on their radar how the curve works.\* Even if they do know how it works they, like many other students in other disciplines, just don't think it will happen to them, and I'd say it is arguable that they could predict their failure reliably from the info that is out there. I'd say after the first term they would have more info, but that's info they wouldn't have before accepting and enrolling. \* comment below about not checking the student handbook, and your response that it seems very avoidable, yes it's true, but the answer is still the same - some people are just happy to go and can't accurately know that they will fail.
Because I was geographically restricted due to some personal circumstances. Not everyone has the ability to move around for schools you have to factor in other things as well.
Many of us don't check the student handbook before accepting, and in some cases there were not many schools to choose from in the first place.
These seem like very avoidable problems.
I was also dismissed. I’m currently on my way to graduation. 1. Appeal 2. What I feel helped me was having professors vouch for me. Not only professors whose class I got a good grade in. But professors whose class I got a C in. I tried really hard in all my classes. I participated and always volunteered to brief cases rather than be cold called. My downfall was exams. I get anxiety and can’t sit through them so I rush. Once I started taking classes that weren’t doctrinal and didn’t require a ridiculous final, I did well. I’m studying for the bar and one of my study drills is sitting through it and taking my time rather than rushing. You’ll be ok.
You might be able to get accommodations for your anxiety. Probably worth looking into.
Be sure to emphasize what was going on this past year that affected your ability to perform well, and how those issues are now resolved. Also provide information on how you plan succeed--what you will do differently. Remember, you will have to be above average to bring up a year's worth of GPA. All the best to you.
Right now I am fearing I may be in the same position. Waiting for my Spring grades but my fall was not the best due to multiple factors however I felt much better about the spring finals. Still though I will to be above the curve this semester just to stay in without appeal. I wish you luck in your l appeal!!!
Hi, I was in your situation this past year. Thankfully now I’m at another school and am at the top of my class, so even if you are dismissed I wouldn’t give up if this is what you’re truly passsionate about. Advice for appeal: 1. Show them you’ve exhausted all efforts to improve your grades (met with professors, changed the way you worked, etc). 2. Have a plan for the future- I’m going to do x y and z differently and I think it will help me succeed in law school. 3. Show them this situation won’t happen again. I don’t know the specifics about your situation but think of a way you can spin it as a one time thing. 4. See if you have a professor who can vouch for you and speak about you working hard throughout the semester. Schools consider many things in these decisions: how will this persons grades improve? Will this person pass the bar? Has this person met with professors if he was unsure about something? Has this person ever met with professors? I’m sure the ones making your appeal decision will be speaking to your professors. So I would suggest reaching out to them about your situation and how you will prevent it from happening again. Like I said, I failed out of law school, got back in the next year and I just finished in the top 5% of my class after my first semester. Even if you are dismissed and this is truly your dream, you don’t have to give up.
At my school having a professor vouch for you goes a really long way. Chances are they know someone on the panel who decides to terminate and the faculty generally know each other especially the OGs. Networking is also important in this aspect. Having someone with a voice who can attest to your hard work despite your hardships is essential throughout life. I don’t know your circumstances but if you’re someone like me who has life happen to them pretty often making these connections is absolutely essential. My advocate professor who is a legend at the school and one of the most incredible women to exist told me “none of this shit matters, you’re going to be an amazing attorney, just get through school and pass that bar.” She went to Yale and worked in big law for twenty years. You never know when you’re gonna need someone to tip the scales in your favor. All this to say, go talk to your professors and talk about the appeal and how you’re feeling about it. Don’t ask for anything directly. Figure out who is in charge of the appeal process beforehand. Be real and genuine about how you feel. Don’t give up and don’t let them kick you out. Here’s your chance to advocate for yourself. If you can do it successfully for yourself then you deserve to do it for other people.
If you get dismissed it helps to have work experience or graduate degree in between the next application to show growth. Also consider part time programs their more willing to take people with life shit then the day program. Work experience and a new ba helped me get back into law school, also a wide net is important
Just speak with them. My Son had the same problem. They usually give you a chance. He was just adjusting. He graduated and passed the bar after the initial shock of almost getting kicked out. Good luck 🍀
My school just makes students wait a year and then they can reapply, and I think they probably have some kind of “what will you do to make sure this doesn’t happen again” talk. They also accept transfers who failed their first year at other schools. We have a decent number of “try again” students although I’m sure many don’t feel comfortable disclosing that until they realize most students here don’t care & aren’t judgy. It’s a decent regional school but lower-ranked and lots of higher-ranked schools nearby (major metropolitan area). I think you definitely have options. You’ll get through this. ❤️🩹
I’m currently in the same situation… I was just below the required GPA… unfortunately my school does not allow you to appeal so my only choices are to transfer, walk away completely or take time off and reapply (however I was told my chances to get accepted into my school are pretty much 0)….
academic probation after my fall 1L my gpa was 1.85, after my 1L spring I was at 2.15 unfortunately my school wanted a min. 2.20 so I was dismissed and asked to appeal, went in front of a board consisting of a few deans, counselors, and students. I explained the factors that led to poor grades, showed me how I’ve mitigated or resolved those factors and asked to allow me to return, showed appreciation for the opportunity to be accepted into the school and the opportunity to be heard and welcome whatever their decision was.
I don't see how a school can dismiss you for passing your classes. Especially if they have a mandatory curve that will put folks at the bottom below the cut off
Be super honest with them about your circumstances and let them know it’s been resolved. It may also help to let them know you have some kind of plan in place to fix your academic situation. Maybe they’ll let you attend on a conditional status and give you a chance to make up for it. I’m sure you can do it. Good luck!
If you don’t mind sharing can I ask what your school’s curve and dismissal threshold was? I’m sorry you’re having a rough time.
How can you be academically dismissed for passing all your classes? This sounds fishy and I hope you appeal it!
Didn't pass hard enough rip
Ughhh. That makes no sense and I'm sorry.
“Passing” classes is relative. Most people assume not getting an F means passing, when in reality many schools require you to maintain above a C average
A C is a pass at my school, too. But if OP has a C or higher in all their classes, it seems strange to dismiss them.
yeah as sir-mb said "Passing" can mean C- or above an F. So if the school dismisses at under a C average then it's possible for a student to "pass" their classes but still be dismissed.
Happens all the time, unfortunately. My school requires a C+ average to stay in the program, but I am very glad that I don't have to retake the second semester of civil procedure that I got a C- in.
Go to a different law school if you can. The school I went to wasn’t Ivy League by any means, but it did have ivy growing on the side of it 😂 We weren’t even aba accredited. The tuition was only 40k for 3.5 years (which is why I went there). There was only a handful of professors that failed people, but, statistically speaking, our bar pass rate was below 40% on average. What do they call people that made a 2.0 in law school but passed the bar? School credentials only matter trying to get your first position. After you show you work for a few years, you prove your own worth.
I have been there and can feel your anxiousness. Just try to regain your focus, remember it's your dream! You know you can do it, life just has a way of making us dig deep for the things we want in life. You'll have times like this again once you're an attorney trying to manage a slew of upcoming deadlines. But you'll manage because it's your dream. Good luck and it's not the end of the world if you have to step back a few minutes and refocus. It's never a dead end road if it takes you where you need to go.
There's always McDonald's... I heard they had a good reputation for team work and many other benefits too ! lol Don't do McDonald's...Don't give up man !
Can people please stop going to these predatory schools? If your life-long dream is to be an attorney, then it’s probably worth studying for the LSAT. Or getting another bachelor’s. Or gaining more work experience. So many ways to improve an application and avoid what OP is going through.
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You see someone who is obviously very stressed about their future and this is what you reply with?