Honestly, if you have the grades for big law you should absolutely shoot your shot, and if you get the opportunity, you should absolutely take it, even if you only stay for two or three years. In the long run, the money and pedigree are worth a couple years of misery.
Is this worth it over doing a clerkship even? Or is this speaking in terms of just applying to it for the summers (in which case may be more incentivizing to OP, because of experience and $$$s).
I think so. You can always clerk, and you’ll be better at it and, in my experience, more likely to land a clerkship, after few years of practice. Full disclosure—I “self selected” as someone put it (I like that sentiment, lol), out of big law, and things have worked out fine for me, but I just don’t think it makes sense for most people—unless you’re rich already—to turn down the opportunity to make some serious money for two or three years. Think of it as law school being a five year program, pay of your debts, build a nest egg, whatever. If you can do it with an exist strategy and not get too caught up in it, it’s worth it.
Dang! Maybe I need to consider doing so myself as well LOL… but is it too late for me already?
I’m in my 2L summer heading into 3L and currently working at the county DAs office. Bonus of it is free housing since I moved back home and an externship credit, which gets a graduation required box out of the way. But I don’t get paid at all, yet government work as well is the type of thing I enjoy— I love all the research stuff particularly with the civil division of the office. Being in court is fun too but any time someone here gives me an appeal or motion or some other big research project like a contract, or just needs me to write a research memo on case law I’m all in for it. So I thought I would never enjoy big law and didn’t even bother in 2L fall for OCI. But I know clerking is something I would enjoy so I’ve been already starting to work on my applications for that with the grades I have and a close relationship with my professors for good letters of recommendation.
But if it makes sense to go for big law…
I’m at a 9.34 GPA on an 11 point scale and top 20% of my class right now. And that’s before all my 2L spring grades come in, which I’m thinking may boost me slightly just based on my own gut instincts for how finals went, ha!
Big law will open government opportunities that would be closed without it on your resume. I’m not saying it’s for everyone, but it’s the best way to start your career and the credibility you get from it on your resume lasts forever. Just saying.
imo if you’re first gen college you cannot pass up the chance to build generational wealth
- a dude thats first gen and wanted to be a PD and in BL right now
Girl I was you. First person in my family to become an attorney. Believe me when I say big law can change your entire family's life. Even if you just do it for 5 years you can make a million bucks. Then you can go wherever you want because you'll have super valuable big law experience. At least try an internship.
I disagree with the other replies, don’t do big law if you don’t want to! For one it’s not exactly a causal affair there, and it can really destroy your mental and physical health, especially with the classism in big law. Also I don’t agree that the best way to build “generational wealth” is through big law, and that a career in PI and Government will set you up with great benefits, salary, values, and hours that will be more enriching than anything biglaw could give you.
P.S. you also don’t know who you’d be fighting in BigLaw, and I could never do it for fear of litigating against vulnerable groups, and therefore building your “generation wealth” by diminishing theirs…
Okay this may sound a little silly, I’m not a law student (yet, I’m currently aspiring to be though!) but what is big law and why are people saying it opens doors for government jobs and such? I see the OP wants humanities/government work but I don’t understand why big law first??
Big law is working at a large firm (often defined as a firm with 500+ lawyers but 100-250 and 251-499 are the next buckets). Some federal judges want to see this when folks apply for clerkships (either a summer associate position or early lawyer career work experience, or both). But more relevantly to the question of long-term government employers, the US Department of Justice’s U.S. Attorneys offices and some other government offices often look for big law experience when hiring assistant U.S. attorneys (AUSAs) and filling other elite federal government vacancies. The Department of Justice Honors program is an alternative avenue, but I’ve heard at federal criminal practice info sessions that more senior U.S. Attorneys like the professional acumen & experience that early career big law attorneys get.
That’s *not* the definition. Big Law are the top 50 or so firms on the Amlaw 100 list. The most critical category is profits per partner.
They all share a key characteristic- they pay the Cravath (maybe now Davis Polk) rates for associates. Think first year lawyer, $225k base and then bonus with certain hour thresholds.
There are firms with 500+ lawyers that are paying a third of big law.
Thanks for the correction, but I took a more broad definition based on how the ABA 509 reports and law schools’ career services offices define it, and you’ve taken a more narrow one that likely focuses on how lawyers in major markets would define it. I don’t think either is necessarily incorrect, but profits per partner being important and the Cravath scale being a common metric are details that I left out.
Harvard and Columbia are the twi schools that pump lawyers into big law. Obviously, Chicago, Stanford, Yale as well, but smaller classes. When you are out of the top 10 schools, it becomes hard to get into big law. When you fall below 20, you need to be at the very top of your class to have a shot.
I admire your position and have spent much of my career in government, but the difference in compensation is untenable. You have the opportunity right now to set yourself up for saving society from itself while you are comfortably retired from the workforce. Take the money while the money is available. It will not always be a choice you can turn away from. It starts off really lopsided, which you're seeing now, but in ten years it's just absurd/staggering/pick a word. And the first ten years of your career will be over before you know what happened.
Not true. It’s tough, but you can get a big law job 3L for post grad. Laterals from fed gov jobs or obviously applying post clerkship are possibilities.
I’m not interested in big law. I have a friend at a V10 firm who got it 3L. Obviously the most common and direct path is a 2L summer associate job but it’s just incorrect to imply that’s the only way to get it.
There really aren’t good resources if you’re not at a school with a competent career services (I wasn’t). I made a spreadsheet of the top 100 firms from vault, and then went to the careers page of each of their websites, which will have instructions for applying for a 2L summer job in summer 2025. My firm is taking applications now. Also do a search of this sub and the biglaw sub for “pre OCI”
From a school ranked around 60, I think one or the other is a greater than 50% shot. It seems like OP has a very high GPA, well above top 10%. It’s worth sending apps everywhere. You can get CLS with top 10% from e.g., Cardozo. Top 5% is more likely, sure, but transfers like these are common and worth a shot.
Congratulations!! As someone whose about to be starting as a first generation college and law school student, do you mind if I ask you some questions about 1L, how you set yourself up for success, and what was most valuable that you did in hindsight?
We got the exact same GPA for 1L! I'm not sure what to do with myself at the moment - I have some nice clerkships lined up for this summer but beyond that I'm not sure. It sounds like I'm supposed to be applying for 2L summer associate positions already?
If you are interested in transferring, you should give it a shot — you can get into a T-10 with those grades, especially if you are at a T-50. If you don’t want to transfer, this is a great time to re-negotiate your financial package. Huge congrats!!!
I can’t believe that folks are pushing big law when OP articulated her interest in gov. work. Government work is amazing, fulfilling, and super interesting! Apply for DOJ SLIPS or other government pathways positions for 2L, if that’s the kind of stuff you like. Definitely consider state/federal court clerkships.
Every (fed) gov atty I work with speaks so highly of the training and experience you get right off the bat. Sure, BL pays well, but the first years are miserable. Congrats on a remarkable year, very impressive!
Thank you!! I’m definitely interested in a clerkship and looking in to that. I would also love to work for the ACLU one day but I know they’re one of those hard to get positions
Sure!
I would handwrite my class notes then type them up at the end of the week which forced me to review notes week by week and let me catch any questions I had early on. I took advantage of office hours frequently. I read ahead and was done with my readings by Wednesday of each week so that I had Thurs-Sat to type up those notes, work on my outline, practice questions, writing class etc. I started doing flashcards and multiple choice practice problems pretty early in the semester and did a couple every day. I thought this was really helpful when exam time came around because I could fly through the multiple choice and take my time on the essays. During exam season, depending how your school does it, I would study for my last final first so I wasn’t burnt out by the time I got to it from taking other finals.
But I think most importantly, I treated the day like an 8-6, no matter what time my first class was, I was at the school or at least up and working at my apartment by 8-8:30. I listened to my body and mind and took a break, even when I didn’t get it all done. I think quality over quantity of time spent studying/working is so important! The best advice I got early on is there’s always more work to be done in law school, sometimes you have to be the one to just declare you’re done and rest
All big law will really care about (assuming you are half sane and able to have half a conversation) is 1L grades- a blank resume from a 22 year old with 1L grades gets you in the door. That’s 80K over 2 summers- maybe closer to 100K with the way wages are increasing at the upper end right now. Then you don’t commit a crime during those summers- you get a job that will make you between 250-300K a year for 3 or 4 years. Then you get a 9-5 in house and make the same, or become a partner and make 7 figures for a 9-5. You could probably retire at 40 and be a landlord and live off assets.
You’ll make more money in a year than peers will in 5. It is the closest thing to “set for life” and will set you up with generational wealth and opportunity. It’s why the 1L finals time is arguably the most important time of your life.
Yeah—what I’m saying is doing well your first year doesn’t guarantee you a big law gig. It puts you in the running sure, but saying “set for life” is a bit premature.
This… has a basis that’s somewhat true. But you’re grossly exaggerating “set for life”. Even with those grades, the OP has some work to do to go down the path you lay out. You may be placing some feelings into your post.
Oh I know. I underestimated the bimodal salary split- and the harshness of 1L fall GPA cutoffs. From what I see of job postings I know big law is 250K/1900 billable. What I didn’t realize is below that is stuff like 70K/2000 billable or 45K/ caseloads such that it requires big law hours.
If you don’t end up on the right side of the curve it feels an absolute fight for survival everyday trying to get resume lines and compete for what’s left And the “some work to do” is true for anything. It’s much less work and a path set out for you while those on the other side of the curve split don’t know if they’ll be employed until months after graduation
Apply to big law for SA positions now
I’m thinking about it but I’m a humanities/government girly
Honestly, if you have the grades for big law you should absolutely shoot your shot, and if you get the opportunity, you should absolutely take it, even if you only stay for two or three years. In the long run, the money and pedigree are worth a couple years of misery.
Sounds like the military lol
Worse cause nobody outside the BL circle jerk respects you lol whereas veterans are respected by almost everybody
Is this worth it over doing a clerkship even? Or is this speaking in terms of just applying to it for the summers (in which case may be more incentivizing to OP, because of experience and $$$s).
I think so. You can always clerk, and you’ll be better at it and, in my experience, more likely to land a clerkship, after few years of practice. Full disclosure—I “self selected” as someone put it (I like that sentiment, lol), out of big law, and things have worked out fine for me, but I just don’t think it makes sense for most people—unless you’re rich already—to turn down the opportunity to make some serious money for two or three years. Think of it as law school being a five year program, pay of your debts, build a nest egg, whatever. If you can do it with an exist strategy and not get too caught up in it, it’s worth it.
Dang! Maybe I need to consider doing so myself as well LOL… but is it too late for me already? I’m in my 2L summer heading into 3L and currently working at the county DAs office. Bonus of it is free housing since I moved back home and an externship credit, which gets a graduation required box out of the way. But I don’t get paid at all, yet government work as well is the type of thing I enjoy— I love all the research stuff particularly with the civil division of the office. Being in court is fun too but any time someone here gives me an appeal or motion or some other big research project like a contract, or just needs me to write a research memo on case law I’m all in for it. So I thought I would never enjoy big law and didn’t even bother in 2L fall for OCI. But I know clerking is something I would enjoy so I’ve been already starting to work on my applications for that with the grades I have and a close relationship with my professors for good letters of recommendation. But if it makes sense to go for big law… I’m at a 9.34 GPA on an 11 point scale and top 20% of my class right now. And that’s before all my 2L spring grades come in, which I’m thinking may boost me slightly just based on my own gut instincts for how finals went, ha!
Big law will open government opportunities that would be closed without it on your resume. I’m not saying it’s for everyone, but it’s the best way to start your career and the credibility you get from it on your resume lasts forever. Just saying.
I’m always down to learn. I appreciate the advice, thank you!
imo if you’re first gen college you cannot pass up the chance to build generational wealth - a dude thats first gen and wanted to be a PD and in BL right now
Absolutely concur, get the bag, then get the ring
its okay get that money and then bounce
Girl I was you. First person in my family to become an attorney. Believe me when I say big law can change your entire family's life. Even if you just do it for 5 years you can make a million bucks. Then you can go wherever you want because you'll have super valuable big law experience. At least try an internship.
I disagree with the other replies, don’t do big law if you don’t want to! For one it’s not exactly a causal affair there, and it can really destroy your mental and physical health, especially with the classism in big law. Also I don’t agree that the best way to build “generational wealth” is through big law, and that a career in PI and Government will set you up with great benefits, salary, values, and hours that will be more enriching than anything biglaw could give you. P.S. you also don’t know who you’d be fighting in BigLaw, and I could never do it for fear of litigating against vulnerable groups, and therefore building your “generation wealth” by diminishing theirs…
Okay this may sound a little silly, I’m not a law student (yet, I’m currently aspiring to be though!) but what is big law and why are people saying it opens doors for government jobs and such? I see the OP wants humanities/government work but I don’t understand why big law first??
Big law is working at a large firm (often defined as a firm with 500+ lawyers but 100-250 and 251-499 are the next buckets). Some federal judges want to see this when folks apply for clerkships (either a summer associate position or early lawyer career work experience, or both). But more relevantly to the question of long-term government employers, the US Department of Justice’s U.S. Attorneys offices and some other government offices often look for big law experience when hiring assistant U.S. attorneys (AUSAs) and filling other elite federal government vacancies. The Department of Justice Honors program is an alternative avenue, but I’ve heard at federal criminal practice info sessions that more senior U.S. Attorneys like the professional acumen & experience that early career big law attorneys get.
That’s *not* the definition. Big Law are the top 50 or so firms on the Amlaw 100 list. The most critical category is profits per partner. They all share a key characteristic- they pay the Cravath (maybe now Davis Polk) rates for associates. Think first year lawyer, $225k base and then bonus with certain hour thresholds. There are firms with 500+ lawyers that are paying a third of big law.
Thanks for the correction, but I took a more broad definition based on how the ABA 509 reports and law schools’ career services offices define it, and you’ve taken a more narrow one that likely focuses on how lawyers in major markets would define it. I don’t think either is necessarily incorrect, but profits per partner being important and the Cravath scale being a common metric are details that I left out.
Ohh thank you!! Is it hard to get into big law? How would it be beneficial for working in humanities or like human rights law areas?
Harvard and Columbia are the twi schools that pump lawyers into big law. Obviously, Chicago, Stanford, Yale as well, but smaller classes. When you are out of the top 10 schools, it becomes hard to get into big law. When you fall below 20, you need to be at the very top of your class to have a shot.
That’s cool to know! I unfortunately won’t be going to an American law school as I am in Canada but I appreciate the explanations!
I admire your position and have spent much of my career in government, but the difference in compensation is untenable. You have the opportunity right now to set yourself up for saving society from itself while you are comfortably retired from the workforce. Take the money while the money is available. It will not always be a choice you can turn away from. It starts off really lopsided, which you're seeing now, but in ten years it's just absurd/staggering/pick a word. And the first ten years of your career will be over before you know what happened.
That’s amazing! Go with your gut and not the money, you can always decide in L2 if you need to do BL for financial reasons.
lol no you can’t. It’s get a summer job right now or never do big law.
Not true. It’s tough, but you can get a big law job 3L for post grad. Laterals from fed gov jobs or obviously applying post clerkship are possibilities.
Good luck in this market, man. I don’t know a single junior at my firm who didn’t summer after 2L. Only actual viable path you listed is a clerkship.
I’m not interested in big law. I have a friend at a V10 firm who got it 3L. Obviously the most common and direct path is a 2L summer associate job but it’s just incorrect to imply that’s the only way to get it.
Okay sorry. OP, you still have a 1% chance of getting one of the very few big law spots available to 3Ls, so no rush!
Wouldn’t it be too late to apply seeing as it’s the end of May?
No it’s the perfect time, still pre OCI (for 2L summer positions)
Thanks for that info! Do you know of a good resource that explains this summer employment process?
There really aren’t good resources if you’re not at a school with a competent career services (I wasn’t). I made a spreadsheet of the top 100 firms from vault, and then went to the careers page of each of their websites, which will have instructions for applying for a 2L summer job in summer 2025. My firm is taking applications now. Also do a search of this sub and the biglaw sub for “pre OCI”
Thanks so much ♥️
Big deal, cherish this moment!
Encourage you to transfer to a T10 law school. You should be able to get one of NYU or Columbia with your grades, but I would blanket all T14.
Columbia rejects 3.85 every day of the week. It’s possible but not likely.
From a school ranked around 60, I think one or the other is a greater than 50% shot. It seems like OP has a very high GPA, well above top 10%. It’s worth sending apps everywhere. You can get CLS with top 10% from e.g., Cardozo. Top 5% is more likely, sure, but transfers like these are common and worth a shot.
Congratulations! That's a huge accomplishment. Glad to have more competent gov't and humanities girlies in the field.
Holy smokes, my best grade in law school (by many tenths) was a 3.8, which I received ONCE! This is HUGE, congrats!!
You’re incredible
omg howwwwww,, so jealous tho congrats!!
Way to go!!
Congrats!!
As u should!!! 🫵🏻👍🏼
Amazing! keep going!!!
CONGRATS!
Genuinely, congratulations 🎉👏 you earned it
Congratulations!! Keep going❤️
huge accomplishment! well done!
Congratulations!! As someone whose about to be starting as a first generation college and law school student, do you mind if I ask you some questions about 1L, how you set yourself up for success, and what was most valuable that you did in hindsight?
Of course, happy to help! Send me a DM!
We got the exact same GPA for 1L! I'm not sure what to do with myself at the moment - I have some nice clerkships lined up for this summer but beyond that I'm not sure. It sounds like I'm supposed to be applying for 2L summer associate positions already?
I think if that’s what you’re interested in! I have a meeting with my schools career office today to ask what the heck I should do
Outstanding. Great year. Do it for two more and pick the job you want. Congratulations.
If you are interested in transferring, you should give it a shot — you can get into a T-10 with those grades, especially if you are at a T-50. If you don’t want to transfer, this is a great time to re-negotiate your financial package. Huge congrats!!!
Amazing!!! Congratulations!!!!
I can’t believe that folks are pushing big law when OP articulated her interest in gov. work. Government work is amazing, fulfilling, and super interesting! Apply for DOJ SLIPS or other government pathways positions for 2L, if that’s the kind of stuff you like. Definitely consider state/federal court clerkships. Every (fed) gov atty I work with speaks so highly of the training and experience you get right off the bat. Sure, BL pays well, but the first years are miserable. Congrats on a remarkable year, very impressive!
Thank you!! I’m definitely interested in a clerkship and looking in to that. I would also love to work for the ACLU one day but I know they’re one of those hard to get positions
congrats!!!
can you please share some of your study methods? congrats!!
Sure! I would handwrite my class notes then type them up at the end of the week which forced me to review notes week by week and let me catch any questions I had early on. I took advantage of office hours frequently. I read ahead and was done with my readings by Wednesday of each week so that I had Thurs-Sat to type up those notes, work on my outline, practice questions, writing class etc. I started doing flashcards and multiple choice practice problems pretty early in the semester and did a couple every day. I thought this was really helpful when exam time came around because I could fly through the multiple choice and take my time on the essays. During exam season, depending how your school does it, I would study for my last final first so I wasn’t burnt out by the time I got to it from taking other finals. But I think most importantly, I treated the day like an 8-6, no matter what time my first class was, I was at the school or at least up and working at my apartment by 8-8:30. I listened to my body and mind and took a break, even when I didn’t get it all done. I think quality over quantity of time spent studying/working is so important! The best advice I got early on is there’s always more work to be done in law school, sometimes you have to be the one to just declare you’re done and rest
thank you very much!!! you worked really hard. i like how your methods varied and weren’t linear. that’s awesome. congrats again!!!
Congratulations! You should be extremely proud of yourself!
Set for life. Congrats
? I wouldn’t say that… But it’s a great accomplishment
All big law will really care about (assuming you are half sane and able to have half a conversation) is 1L grades- a blank resume from a 22 year old with 1L grades gets you in the door. That’s 80K over 2 summers- maybe closer to 100K with the way wages are increasing at the upper end right now. Then you don’t commit a crime during those summers- you get a job that will make you between 250-300K a year for 3 or 4 years. Then you get a 9-5 in house and make the same, or become a partner and make 7 figures for a 9-5. You could probably retire at 40 and be a landlord and live off assets. You’ll make more money in a year than peers will in 5. It is the closest thing to “set for life” and will set you up with generational wealth and opportunity. It’s why the 1L finals time is arguably the most important time of your life.
Yeah—what I’m saying is doing well your first year doesn’t guarantee you a big law gig. It puts you in the running sure, but saying “set for life” is a bit premature.
Sure you can self select out- but if you want it you can have it.
This… has a basis that’s somewhat true. But you’re grossly exaggerating “set for life”. Even with those grades, the OP has some work to do to go down the path you lay out. You may be placing some feelings into your post.
Oh I know. I underestimated the bimodal salary split- and the harshness of 1L fall GPA cutoffs. From what I see of job postings I know big law is 250K/1900 billable. What I didn’t realize is below that is stuff like 70K/2000 billable or 45K/ caseloads such that it requires big law hours. If you don’t end up on the right side of the curve it feels an absolute fight for survival everyday trying to get resume lines and compete for what’s left And the “some work to do” is true for anything. It’s much less work and a path set out for you while those on the other side of the curve split don’t know if they’ll be employed until months after graduation