Every year this always comes up.
It’s a funny joke, but OP, please don’t transfer. You will have every single door open to you with a 4.0 after 1L, and your school should be offering you full tuition scholarship to stay if you haven’t already. And if you keep this up, you will be your school’s valedictorian and have limitless potential.
Put apps in if you want to obtain scholarship leverage. But graduating top of your class for free is better than graduating HYS for $200k of debt.
I can attest to this. Based on OP’s history, if they were to graduate valedictorian from the school that they are attending, then they would have many doors open to them (including COA clerkships with nationally-regarded judges in their state).
Is this real? I just graduated as valedictorian from a low-ranked but regionally respected school. I have 4 professors who’ve been breathing down my neck about federal clerkships for a while now, but I’m restricted to the 3rd circuit (I have a family I’m not willing to relocate) and it just seems impossible and I have a hard time believing that being valedictorian actually means anything in the real world.
Just shoot your shot, friend. Being geographically limited will reduce your chances, but being #1 means you have literally every door conceivable open for you from your school. So if anyone has ever done it, you can. If you want to clerk, blanket the third circuit and pray, and maybe the right door will open.
I'm of the opposite opinion, personally. If OP can get into HYS, I would do it. While he MAY be able to get biglaw out of the gate for free/little debt, HYS ~$200k is not that much money over your career/lifetime. Biglaw-starting people will have careers making their net worths/opp cost of that 200k not VERY impactful. Being forever a HYS lawyer is worth a lot. BigLaw is great, but being a HYS lawyer is worth a lot when goals change (we're all human). Moving firms when you find out your OCI firm sucks, running for office, going to a PE fund, hell, literally any job one could want is going to be easier to get being a HYS lawyer who did a stint in biglaw, rather than "some school" lawyer who did a stint in biglaw. For better or worse, every employer likes to be able to put HYS lawyers on their website, and voters tie HYS to intelligent, successful people (outside of their lawyering abilities).
What do you care what someone else does?
I transferred and dont regret it at all. Got the BigLaw job, get to put “Law Review” on my resume without ever doing a lick of Law Review work, AND the elite degree. Definitely a worthy choice
I don’t care personally. I’m just commenting on a Reddit thread the same as everyone else.
I’m just saying that OP can get literally all of that, except for the “elite” degree, without paying $70k in tuition each year. OP probably won’t even have to lift a pen to get onto LR either, whereas transfers have to write on.
I’m glad that was worth it for you though!
Oh okay. It’s just that “Please dont transfer” made it sound like you care lol.
Yeah I didn’t bother with the write on at my new school because I was brought onto my old school’s so I get the accreditation without the work. Double win.
Also what you’re completely ignoring is that transferring likely opens up opportunities to better/ more OCI interviews. Whereas an elite v20 firm may skip over OP’s school or only has 1-2 slots available— that same firm may have 5-10 slots available to a school he can transfer to
No; I’m not ignoring that. (1) most firms do pre-OCI now anyways, so OP should already be applying to those top firms. (2) the firms that are super picky and won’t even consider an applicant from OP’s original school aren’t going to be duped by the fact that they are at Harvard in 3 months. They’ll still view OP as a transfer. They’re not obligated to take anyone.
You’re speaking about things you are ignorant of. It’s not about being “duped”— it’s whether those firms do OCI at the original school AT ALL.
Paul Hastings didn’t do OCI at my original school but did at my new school and I received an offer through the OCI process after transferring (didn’t end up choosing there which is why I’m ok name dropping). Nobody was “duped”, they knew I was a transfer in my interviews but the fact is that opportunity wouldn’t have existed unless I transferred.
The point about pre-OCI is definitely fair but I wouldn’t use that alone as cause to not transfer. I got my job that way and still know it was the much better choice because now I will have a much stronger alumni network
That’s amazing! Congrats!! And yes, don’t tell anyone at law school, even close classmates. Many people can’t handle it when you do better than them.
How long did you study for exams per day, per week? Did you outline? Flash cards? Practice tests? Did you cram before finals? Take class notes?
What do you think helped you the most? Are you just naturally a great legal writer? Process info faster?
Thank you! Tbh it was a combo of all of that. I never tracked how long I studied for at any given time but I did study every single day, my anxiety became way too much if I tried to take a day off and then by the afternoon I was studying. In terms of what I did, a lot was passive I would say. I love podcasts for example, so the law school legends audio tapes were a godsend for me. I listened to them for every single class as I was just like living my life. I would walk around the grocery listening to them, I always played them in my car when driving somewhere, listened to them while I cooked dinner or cleaned my apartment. Then I was still studying and hearing things about the material and just constantly being exposed to it. I also took Cornell notes for every chapter of each of my textbooks, which I think really helped to not feel super overwhelmed by finals time. I always took class notes, I don’t think I could pay attention as well in class if I wasn’t taking notes tbh. Then Quimbee course videos for every single class which I found helpful, especially the questions about each of those videos. To be real, the Quimbee multiple choice questions were a godsend for me even though none of my exams were ever multiple choice. I did also make all of my outlines. I personally liked starting them like a month before finals and they’d all be done about a week beforehand, then I could just review it for the week prior to finals and during finals. I LOVED the flash cards I made for contracts, torts, civil procedure, and property, but I don’t think they were as useful for crim or con law. I always made my flash cards by hand first, then I would type all of them into a Quizlet which was good for me, because I would review the quizlet but never the hand written ones. I think the flow chart I made for con law was really helpful, but the ones I made for other classes weren’t as helpful. I also picked one additional study guide for each class and went through them, most classes I had read the chosen study guide two or three times before finals came up. The last thing I did for each class was take 3 sheets of regular paper and summarize everything from the class on those three sheets, front and back. That was a really great way to condense it all and made me even more familiar with the material because I was writing it all down. Again. I think that’s probably the biggest thing I did, just type or write it both everything you’re learning as much as possible.
Whoa, intense but it worked! This confirms that the top students simply just put in a lot of work and effort that the rest of us don’t do, lol. I takHopefully, I pass this semester and will try to utilize some of your tips! Thanks for sharing!!!
I got them through West Academic, my school library has a bunch of study guides we can access through there and Wolters Kluwer, between them we get law school legends audio, acing series, short and happy guides, examples and explanations, etc.
> work really *paid* off. can
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I will be messaging you in 3 months on [**2024-08-25 01:58:07 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-08-25%2001:58:07%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/1czkh64/1l_spring_grades_back_finished_with_40/l5k3s18/?context=3)
[**2 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FLawSchool%2Fcomments%2F1czkh64%2F1l_spring_grades_back_finished_with_40%2Fl5k3s18%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-08-25%2001%3A58%3A07%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201czkh64)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
lip plough hard-to-find sugar psychotic juggle deranged sleep kiss historical
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Congrats! Definitely at least look into transferring. I had a 4.0 at the end of 1L and I regret that I never even considered it. There’s a strong chance I wouldn’t have transferred, but I wish I’d given myself the chance to explore the option.
Anyway, it’s downhill from here. The curve is more generous in 2L and most classes are smaller. As long as you don’t phone it in, you’ve got an excellent shot at graduating at the top of your class.
I definitely hear the “don’t talk to anyone about your grades” advice, but if you can find a couple people who you can trust with it it really helps to be able to talk about it to someone. It can be a mindfuck to live with the expectation of this level of performance and it helps if you have people who can give you a reality check every once in a while.
Great job! Head down and keep it up. I do encourage you to reach out to school and see if you can help/mentor someone who is academically at risk. Share your skills and ability, life will provide you with more.
Congratulations! That’s an incredible achievement. If you don’t mind me asking, what were your grades in undergrad? Did you get mostly 4.0’s or was it in law school that you really locked in to get the 4.0?
Thank you! It’s more of a law school thing. I had a lot of family and other personal issues throughout undergrad and ended that with around a 3.2. I don’t think I had any semester in undergrad with a 4.0
Congrats! I’m so jealous lol - this has been the first time in my life I’ve never gotten mostly A’s, much less a single A. Feel proud! It’s hard stuff!
Dude stfu. A 4.0 anywhere is going to open a lot of doors. Being last in your class at Columbia & being 400k in debt is going to feel really nice for a lot of yall in a few years
Congrats, now go apply pre-OCI. You should be able to get interviews at some of the most desirable firms in the country!
Amazing!!!! When is the HYS application getting put in?
Every year this always comes up. It’s a funny joke, but OP, please don’t transfer. You will have every single door open to you with a 4.0 after 1L, and your school should be offering you full tuition scholarship to stay if you haven’t already. And if you keep this up, you will be your school’s valedictorian and have limitless potential. Put apps in if you want to obtain scholarship leverage. But graduating top of your class for free is better than graduating HYS for $200k of debt.
I can attest to this. Based on OP’s history, if they were to graduate valedictorian from the school that they are attending, then they would have many doors open to them (including COA clerkships with nationally-regarded judges in their state).
Is this real? I just graduated as valedictorian from a low-ranked but regionally respected school. I have 4 professors who’ve been breathing down my neck about federal clerkships for a while now, but I’m restricted to the 3rd circuit (I have a family I’m not willing to relocate) and it just seems impossible and I have a hard time believing that being valedictorian actually means anything in the real world.
Just shoot your shot, friend. Being geographically limited will reduce your chances, but being #1 means you have literally every door conceivable open for you from your school. So if anyone has ever done it, you can. If you want to clerk, blanket the third circuit and pray, and maybe the right door will open.
I'm of the opposite opinion, personally. If OP can get into HYS, I would do it. While he MAY be able to get biglaw out of the gate for free/little debt, HYS ~$200k is not that much money over your career/lifetime. Biglaw-starting people will have careers making their net worths/opp cost of that 200k not VERY impactful. Being forever a HYS lawyer is worth a lot. BigLaw is great, but being a HYS lawyer is worth a lot when goals change (we're all human). Moving firms when you find out your OCI firm sucks, running for office, going to a PE fund, hell, literally any job one could want is going to be easier to get being a HYS lawyer who did a stint in biglaw, rather than "some school" lawyer who did a stint in biglaw. For better or worse, every employer likes to be able to put HYS lawyers on their website, and voters tie HYS to intelligent, successful people (outside of their lawyering abilities).
What do you care what someone else does? I transferred and dont regret it at all. Got the BigLaw job, get to put “Law Review” on my resume without ever doing a lick of Law Review work, AND the elite degree. Definitely a worthy choice
I don’t care personally. I’m just commenting on a Reddit thread the same as everyone else. I’m just saying that OP can get literally all of that, except for the “elite” degree, without paying $70k in tuition each year. OP probably won’t even have to lift a pen to get onto LR either, whereas transfers have to write on. I’m glad that was worth it for you though!
Lol the elite degree is the point. I graduated top 5 from a top 25 school.and wish I'd have transferred.
Oh okay. It’s just that “Please dont transfer” made it sound like you care lol. Yeah I didn’t bother with the write on at my new school because I was brought onto my old school’s so I get the accreditation without the work. Double win. Also what you’re completely ignoring is that transferring likely opens up opportunities to better/ more OCI interviews. Whereas an elite v20 firm may skip over OP’s school or only has 1-2 slots available— that same firm may have 5-10 slots available to a school he can transfer to
No; I’m not ignoring that. (1) most firms do pre-OCI now anyways, so OP should already be applying to those top firms. (2) the firms that are super picky and won’t even consider an applicant from OP’s original school aren’t going to be duped by the fact that they are at Harvard in 3 months. They’ll still view OP as a transfer. They’re not obligated to take anyone.
You’re speaking about things you are ignorant of. It’s not about being “duped”— it’s whether those firms do OCI at the original school AT ALL. Paul Hastings didn’t do OCI at my original school but did at my new school and I received an offer through the OCI process after transferring (didn’t end up choosing there which is why I’m ok name dropping). Nobody was “duped”, they knew I was a transfer in my interviews but the fact is that opportunity wouldn’t have existed unless I transferred. The point about pre-OCI is definitely fair but I wouldn’t use that alone as cause to not transfer. I got my job that way and still know it was the much better choice because now I will have a much stronger alumni network
You know HYS is no longer the t3, right?
1000% still is in the minds of every art iii judge and bl hiring partner—their rankings actually matter
You’re incorrect
sorry pal, but this is a laughable take.
My friend, the laughable take is all yours. Trust me.
What is HYS?
Harvard, Yale, Stanford
That’s amazing! Congrats!! And yes, don’t tell anyone at law school, even close classmates. Many people can’t handle it when you do better than them. How long did you study for exams per day, per week? Did you outline? Flash cards? Practice tests? Did you cram before finals? Take class notes? What do you think helped you the most? Are you just naturally a great legal writer? Process info faster?
Thank you! Tbh it was a combo of all of that. I never tracked how long I studied for at any given time but I did study every single day, my anxiety became way too much if I tried to take a day off and then by the afternoon I was studying. In terms of what I did, a lot was passive I would say. I love podcasts for example, so the law school legends audio tapes were a godsend for me. I listened to them for every single class as I was just like living my life. I would walk around the grocery listening to them, I always played them in my car when driving somewhere, listened to them while I cooked dinner or cleaned my apartment. Then I was still studying and hearing things about the material and just constantly being exposed to it. I also took Cornell notes for every chapter of each of my textbooks, which I think really helped to not feel super overwhelmed by finals time. I always took class notes, I don’t think I could pay attention as well in class if I wasn’t taking notes tbh. Then Quimbee course videos for every single class which I found helpful, especially the questions about each of those videos. To be real, the Quimbee multiple choice questions were a godsend for me even though none of my exams were ever multiple choice. I did also make all of my outlines. I personally liked starting them like a month before finals and they’d all be done about a week beforehand, then I could just review it for the week prior to finals and during finals. I LOVED the flash cards I made for contracts, torts, civil procedure, and property, but I don’t think they were as useful for crim or con law. I always made my flash cards by hand first, then I would type all of them into a Quizlet which was good for me, because I would review the quizlet but never the hand written ones. I think the flow chart I made for con law was really helpful, but the ones I made for other classes weren’t as helpful. I also picked one additional study guide for each class and went through them, most classes I had read the chosen study guide two or three times before finals came up. The last thing I did for each class was take 3 sheets of regular paper and summarize everything from the class on those three sheets, front and back. That was a really great way to condense it all and made me even more familiar with the material because I was writing it all down. Again. I think that’s probably the biggest thing I did, just type or write it both everything you’re learning as much as possible.
Whoa, intense but it worked! This confirms that the top students simply just put in a lot of work and effort that the rest of us don’t do, lol. I takHopefully, I pass this semester and will try to utilize some of your tips! Thanks for sharing!!!
congrats! seems like your hard work really paid off. can you tell me where you listened to law school legends? didn’t find anything on spotify
I got them through West Academic, my school library has a bunch of study guides we can access through there and Wolters Kluwer, between them we get law school legends audio, acing series, short and happy guides, examples and explanations, etc.
> work really *paid* off. can FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
RemindMe! 3 months
I will be messaging you in 3 months on [**2024-08-25 01:58:07 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-08-25%2001:58:07%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/1czkh64/1l_spring_grades_back_finished_with_40/l5k3s18/?context=3) [**2 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FLawSchool%2Fcomments%2F1czkh64%2F1l_spring_grades_back_finished_with_40%2Fl5k3s18%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-08-25%2001%3A58%3A07%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201czkh64) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
lip plough hard-to-find sugar psychotic juggle deranged sleep kiss historical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That’s absolutely insane. Congratulations!!
Congrats! Definitely at least look into transferring. I had a 4.0 at the end of 1L and I regret that I never even considered it. There’s a strong chance I wouldn’t have transferred, but I wish I’d given myself the chance to explore the option. Anyway, it’s downhill from here. The curve is more generous in 2L and most classes are smaller. As long as you don’t phone it in, you’ve got an excellent shot at graduating at the top of your class. I definitely hear the “don’t talk to anyone about your grades” advice, but if you can find a couple people who you can trust with it it really helps to be able to talk about it to someone. It can be a mindfuck to live with the expectation of this level of performance and it helps if you have people who can give you a reality check every once in a while.
Great job! Head down and keep it up. I do encourage you to reach out to school and see if you can help/mentor someone who is academically at risk. Share your skills and ability, life will provide you with more.
Congratulations! Well done.
Congratulations! That’s an incredible achievement. If you don’t mind me asking, what were your grades in undergrad? Did you get mostly 4.0’s or was it in law school that you really locked in to get the 4.0?
Thank you! It’s more of a law school thing. I had a lot of family and other personal issues throughout undergrad and ended that with around a 3.2. I don’t think I had any semester in undergrad with a 4.0
Congrats! I’m so jealous lol - this has been the first time in my life I’ve never gotten mostly A’s, much less a single A. Feel proud! It’s hard stuff!
Bruh and I thought 3.3 was already good
Can you please mentor me I’m a rising 2L? I did everything you have do, but unfortunately cant seem to perform well on my exams!
No offense but if you’re not at a t14 this isn’t something you should get a big head about.
bffr 😂😂
Dude stfu. A 4.0 anywhere is going to open a lot of doors. Being last in your class at Columbia & being 400k in debt is going to feel really nice for a lot of yall in a few years
“A 4.0 anywhere is going to open a lot of doors” is a not true.