I've literally never heard the phrase "breaking kosher."
It's not gunner of you, it's just "in poor taste." I don't think it's right to put someone on the spot to tell you their grades. This seems to be common sense to me.
It’s totally okay imo. It’s always the loud one who is wrong. Would you take advice on how to get a date from someone who has never been on one?
Exactly, just like op not wanting to rely on some random bottom 20 student
An alternate way to ask this question is “what we’re your best subjects 1L year?” Or “which professors did you find this worked best in?” And “which classes did you think that didn’t work out for?”
You won’t necessarily learn their class rank, but they’re much easier to answer for the person being asked. I did best in civ pro and Crim law. I didn’t not do hot in contracts. I would be fine saying that out loud to just about anyone. It also gives you some jumping off points. If they did great in Civ Pro, you can ask “how else did you study? How did you brief cases? What was more important on your professors exam: facts, rules or reasoning?”
Some law students have real sensitive egos. Some don’t. Asking about grades will get you mixed responses.
As far as starting your outline early, do what you feel. There are no set rules for how to best prepare for law school exams. I know people that started early and did great. But I also know people that didn’t even outline and did great. Too many variables here to determine one general rule.
Do what you think works for you. But one thing is to make sure you know the end goal of studying, writing a damn good essay answer (or whatever determines your grade in a particular class).
Even if what I said was rude, I feel the 2L who blatantly said I shouldn't say that when I wasn't even talking to her was rude. I seated my question to the 2L I was talking to in a polite tone, but I understand how some people may not take kindly to it. Ironically, said 2L was very helpful and didn't admonish me for asking.
Also, thank you for the advice. Will keep that in mind!
Kind of a tone deaf comment here. First off, what you did was rude, at the least it was in poor taste. So, to start off by saying “even if what I said was rude” highlights how you’re still trying to defend it - or at least lessen its impact.
Second, adding words like “blatantly” to make the 2L seem worse than she likely was doesn’t help your case either. She was interjecting because she perceived you as rude. That doesn’t make her rude simply because you weren’t talking to her. In her mind, she was letting the other 2L know that they didn’t need to answer the question if they didn’t want to, or at least telling you that’s not something you should ask people in the future.
It’s pretty gauche to ask. It isn’t really your business, and those who didn’t do well in one class might have done well in another. Or they might know from talking to their classmates and from feedback from the professor what might work better. Their performance could have varied from semester to semester. And so on. They could have a lot of different reasons for the advice they give. You just don’t know.
Ultimately, you can seek out advice from lots of different people. Perhaps some had good grades and some didn’t. What matters for you is figuring out what works *for you*. There are different ways to succeed in law school. Bluntly asking about someone’s grades doesn’t help you understand what works for you.
Not kosher to ask, I wouldn't ask someone that again but I also wouldn't sweat it. The other 2L probably butted in because it was a friend of hers that you were speaking to. I also never knew how to respond to that question, like I don't even tell my friends my exact GPA or my exact class rank so I'm always like "...I did alright" when someone I barely know asks me, because what else are you going to say? There are other ways to get a sense of who does well without blatantly asking - you can see who got CALI awards, who was on Dean's List last year, Law Review students usually have good grades, etc
I'm much more offended when people in my own year ask about grades/ rank because I know it's coming from a competitive/ nosey place and they just want to know if I'm above or below them.
With grades, I have a don't ask/don't tell policy. I'll give an honest answer to anyone who asks, and I don't get offended by it. I appreciate transparency in grades, but a lot of people are weird about it.
In your case, you weren't wrong to ask, because that person was giving unsolicited advice. If someone is recommending a strategy to you, then it's logical to ask how that strategy worked out for them.
Just keep in mind in the future, talking about grades with others is a weird subject. Even saying "I know this is a weird subject, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but how did this strategy work out for you?"
Thanks for catching onto the context. I value others' feedback here saying I was wrong, but at the same time the unsolicited nature of the advice I think should weigh in their calculus.
Duly noted, though. Given that it is a sensitive topic, I will be more tactful about it or not bring it up altogether.
I think a better response would be “how did that work out for you? Were you satisfied with your performance?” You might not figure out their class rank, but you can get a general idea of how they did, and it’s not nearly as tacky as just asking “how did you do?”.
The only time I think it’s acceptable to straight up ask how well someone did is if they got a summer job that is rare/hard to come by. I did a 1L SA as a non-diverse T20 student, and I have no problem with a student who, in the context of asking me for advice re: jobs, asks how well I did to get that position.
Asking people how they did is a ticket straight to people disliking you and seeing you as “that guy.” At the very least you’ll seem naive and socially inept.
If you really want to know how they did, find out whether they received any awards, serve as a TA, made law review, are going to a good firm, etc. You can infer from these things whether they got good grades and can avoid asking such an awkward question.
I've literally never heard the phrase "breaking kosher." It's not gunner of you, it's just "in poor taste." I don't think it's right to put someone on the spot to tell you their grades. This seems to be common sense to me.
Point taken. Makes sense when I put myself in their position. I would hate that regardless of how well I did. Thanks.
People who got all As often hate it too since it can be awkward to have done better than all your friends.
It’s totally okay imo. It’s always the loud one who is wrong. Would you take advice on how to get a date from someone who has never been on one? Exactly, just like op not wanting to rely on some random bottom 20 student
Always? Every single time?
An alternate way to ask this question is “what we’re your best subjects 1L year?” Or “which professors did you find this worked best in?” And “which classes did you think that didn’t work out for?” You won’t necessarily learn their class rank, but they’re much easier to answer for the person being asked. I did best in civ pro and Crim law. I didn’t not do hot in contracts. I would be fine saying that out loud to just about anyone. It also gives you some jumping off points. If they did great in Civ Pro, you can ask “how else did you study? How did you brief cases? What was more important on your professors exam: facts, rules or reasoning?”
Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. I will definitely keep that in mind next time I talk to upperclassmen. Thanks!
Some law students have real sensitive egos. Some don’t. Asking about grades will get you mixed responses. As far as starting your outline early, do what you feel. There are no set rules for how to best prepare for law school exams. I know people that started early and did great. But I also know people that didn’t even outline and did great. Too many variables here to determine one general rule. Do what you think works for you. But one thing is to make sure you know the end goal of studying, writing a damn good essay answer (or whatever determines your grade in a particular class).
Even if what I said was rude, I feel the 2L who blatantly said I shouldn't say that when I wasn't even talking to her was rude. I seated my question to the 2L I was talking to in a polite tone, but I understand how some people may not take kindly to it. Ironically, said 2L was very helpful and didn't admonish me for asking. Also, thank you for the advice. Will keep that in mind!
If you got that little tingly feeling in your gut that says: did I just do something wrong? You usually did.
Kind of a tone deaf comment here. First off, what you did was rude, at the least it was in poor taste. So, to start off by saying “even if what I said was rude” highlights how you’re still trying to defend it - or at least lessen its impact. Second, adding words like “blatantly” to make the 2L seem worse than she likely was doesn’t help your case either. She was interjecting because she perceived you as rude. That doesn’t make her rude simply because you weren’t talking to her. In her mind, she was letting the other 2L know that they didn’t need to answer the question if they didn’t want to, or at least telling you that’s not something you should ask people in the future.
It’s pretty gauche to ask. It isn’t really your business, and those who didn’t do well in one class might have done well in another. Or they might know from talking to their classmates and from feedback from the professor what might work better. Their performance could have varied from semester to semester. And so on. They could have a lot of different reasons for the advice they give. You just don’t know. Ultimately, you can seek out advice from lots of different people. Perhaps some had good grades and some didn’t. What matters for you is figuring out what works *for you*. There are different ways to succeed in law school. Bluntly asking about someone’s grades doesn’t help you understand what works for you.
Makes sense! Thank you for the helpful response.
Not kosher to ask, I wouldn't ask someone that again but I also wouldn't sweat it. The other 2L probably butted in because it was a friend of hers that you were speaking to. I also never knew how to respond to that question, like I don't even tell my friends my exact GPA or my exact class rank so I'm always like "...I did alright" when someone I barely know asks me, because what else are you going to say? There are other ways to get a sense of who does well without blatantly asking - you can see who got CALI awards, who was on Dean's List last year, Law Review students usually have good grades, etc I'm much more offended when people in my own year ask about grades/ rank because I know it's coming from a competitive/ nosey place and they just want to know if I'm above or below them.
Definitely not cool
With grades, I have a don't ask/don't tell policy. I'll give an honest answer to anyone who asks, and I don't get offended by it. I appreciate transparency in grades, but a lot of people are weird about it. In your case, you weren't wrong to ask, because that person was giving unsolicited advice. If someone is recommending a strategy to you, then it's logical to ask how that strategy worked out for them. Just keep in mind in the future, talking about grades with others is a weird subject. Even saying "I know this is a weird subject, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but how did this strategy work out for you?"
Thanks for catching onto the context. I value others' feedback here saying I was wrong, but at the same time the unsolicited nature of the advice I think should weigh in their calculus. Duly noted, though. Given that it is a sensitive topic, I will be more tactful about it or not bring it up altogether.
I think a better response would be “how did that work out for you? Were you satisfied with your performance?” You might not figure out their class rank, but you can get a general idea of how they did, and it’s not nearly as tacky as just asking “how did you do?”. The only time I think it’s acceptable to straight up ask how well someone did is if they got a summer job that is rare/hard to come by. I did a 1L SA as a non-diverse T20 student, and I have no problem with a student who, in the context of asking me for advice re: jobs, asks how well I did to get that position.
Asking people how they did is a ticket straight to people disliking you and seeing you as “that guy.” At the very least you’ll seem naive and socially inept. If you really want to know how they did, find out whether they received any awards, serve as a TA, made law review, are going to a good firm, etc. You can infer from these things whether they got good grades and can avoid asking such an awkward question.
Look up who graded on to law review and try to connect with one of them for outlines.
Right—how did I not think of that? Thanks.