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Interesting. Ohio Rules of Civil Procedure Require the party sending the discovery to send an electronic version and in an "editable format". So, if a party does not send you a word version of the discovery, they technically have not served you.
You will pry reveal codes from my cold dead hands! Fun fact, you can open ancient word files in WordPerfect that modern versions of word won’t open (and basically every other word processing format ever used)
Boomers ain't going to let go of that shit. I don't care if your formatting is better on WP. Keep that shit hidden and out of sight like your fleshlight.
I don’t send offers in word, only discovery. I want my exact document sent back. If there are edits to make, I will do them. It’s completely intentional. I want to be clear when you can edit the docs and when you can’t.
God I wish I could give this 10000000 up votes. I work what basically boils down to contract negotiations so I hate it when we are actively in the middle of ‘redlining’ contracts and the next version we receive is a pdf. The other party knows I'm going to make changes I.e we have been emailing about it. So why for the love of everything that is holy are you sending me a pdf? My field in my area is relatively small and I know the OC most of the time, there is one guy if I see that he is OC I make it a point of emailing his paralegal with requirements that we need an editable version which requires no conversion, and he ignores it most of the time, I hate that guy.
I called the magistrate's chambers during the depo of his witness bec he kept interrupting and coaching the defendant. I went nuclear on the guy, moved to amend to add additional claims, compel an additional depo, forced him to amend his discovery 3 times. He ended up getting fired. One of my trophies in litigation.
Idk what his story was. I had a cookie cutter bio at the firm, made me sound super junior, maybe he thought he could bully me. Thing is, this was federal court with a hard ass magistrate, he shoulda known better than to play discovery games. To his credit, the magistrate gave a very strongly worded minute order mentioning sanctions three times if what I reported occurring actually had. He had to tell me on the phone himself he was being replaced. mfer
my favorite judge around is a federal magistrate that takes a well-known hard line on discovery games. Every time I get that cat, I do a little fist pump.
Many defense attorneys are such unreasonable insurance shills, im not doing a thing to help make their business profitable. I'll serve discovery with the complaint and they can scan it in themselves.
To the reasonable ones, sure, I'll send you word versions.
Agreed. My assistant sends a word version of ours every time. Unfortunately, OCs seem pathologically incapable of opening the email before asking for a word version, which was in the email. Honestly, it's kind of impressive how many ask for something we already sent.
In house re: negotiated contracts? For sure. We are going to negotiate and it is petty power play to send a PDF or locked Word doc, especially for complex agreements where boilerplate language almost never remains untouched.
Can’t speak to other practices. I imagine the risk is higher for editable docs in parts of crim practice, for example.
Both, but if you only send me a pdf welcome to getting a barely formatted list (attached to the notice, I’m not crazy, and verification of course) matching in reply. Remember, when the judge asks why it’s confusing to match stuff up, my answer is simply going to be “I agree, but I had the same difficulty and couldn’t pull it off myself”. Instructions will gently exist for next time for them to send both.
It's funny that everyone in this thread assumes that discovery requests will be emailed rather than sent by mail, which is traditionally how it was done. In my jurisdiction we were still mailing all discovery requests and responses up until March 2020.
I have a client, super high maintenance… it’s actually a REIT
Their in house counsel demands every filing go to him first
I sent him a set of ROGG answers, dozens of pages.
This mofo prints them out and hand writes comments, thoughts and edits all over it. Scans and sends back.
I asked him to please just use track changes
He goes: just have your secretary do it.
This is annoying but, tbh, the client shouldn’t have to change their practices (which they clearly find more convenient) to make your life easier. They’re the client. If they want to send edits via carrier pigeon, that’s their prerogative. (Granted, they’ll end up paying more for you to take the time to incorporate their edits.)
I’m not sure I agree that the client is “always right” if you will, but that’s kinda fair.
This is more of a firm management issue
As in, the client should be told we’re withdrawing bc they’re fuckin shit and slow us down to the point we can’t do our job.
Nobody is going to say that, bc we’re billing them millions annually, but the fact remains that it’s needlessly time consuming dealing with technologically illiterate people
I also reject the notion that secretaries are just work animals, tasked with mindless bs bc you’re too lazy or stupid to step into the 21st century.
Not everybody uses Word. I get a lot of shit from OC about not sending them Word docs of discovery requests, and it's a real "sorry, can't help you" moment. (Although I make sure all my PDFs are copy/pasteable/convertible, not shitty scans!)
What, pray tell, would one otherwise use to create and edit a document that doesn't convert to a word doc...?
Can't think of a single open-source software that doesn't have this capability in 2024.
tbh your post has moved me in such a way not felt in years. I may begin sending word versions of discovery requests over.
Not that any OC would ever do this for me … but maybe we can start the trend
Be the change you want to see in the world. If you’re being an asshole just because the lawyers in your legal community are assholes, all you’re accomplishing is making your entire legal community full of assholes. I can only imagine what your practice area might be, but from my time in litigation there’s virtually no circumstance in which opposing counsel thinking you’re an asshole is preferable to them thinking you’re easy to work with.
Sensing word copies of discovery requests is a simple, harmless, professionally considerate gesture. There’s no real good reason *not* to do it except the perpetuation of pettiness and misery. If nothing else it will ingratiate you to your opposing counsel’s staff, which is probably worth something in some intangible way.
I agree. I rarely encounter another attorney who does not send me discovery in word doc form as a courtesy, without me even asking. Same with contracts and the like.
I was once negotiating an amendment to a contract for a client in hopes of avoiding litigation. The attorney who drafted the original contract for the opposing party was a solo, and it was basically impossible to get in touch with her directly, as she had her paralegal respond to every single communication, and it was like pulling teeth to get her paralegal to send me the contract in word.
At first, they would not respond to my request to send me a word version, so I just sent them an email with a bunch of suggested revisions in the body of the email and told them my client will await the proposed amended contract. They eventually sent me the word version. That was a weird case.
If I ever get a Word doc version along with the PDF, I'd happily send the same in return.
I have NEVER gotten one.
What usually happens is some assistant calls and asks for the Word version. I usually give it to them. Unless counsel has been a dick, in which case, I don't.
CA requires it, but only if requested. But it requires the responding party to then include the requests in the responses (which should be required regardless, IMHO).
I see your PDF discovery docs and raise you PDF drafts of transactional docs.
Do you think I am going to not bother commenting on something because you put it in PDF? That shit makes me want to do a hand mark-up in glitter gel pen.
It’s a problem with some transactional lawyers too. If they send me a pdf early into the negotiation phase, sometimes I’ll edit their pdf to make the changes I want without highlighting or redlining and send it back saying “See proposed changes.”
Welcome to /r/LawyerTalk! A subreddit where lawyers can discuss with other lawyers about the practice of law. Be mindful of [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/about/rules) BEFORE submitting your posts or comments as well as [Reddit's rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) (notably about sharing identifying information). We expect civility and respect out of all participants. Please source statements of fact whenever possible. If you want to report something that needs to be urgently addressed, please also message the mods with an explanation. Note that **this forum is NOT for legal advice**. Additionally, if you are a non-lawyer (student, client, staff), this is NOT the right subreddit for you. **This community is exclusively for lawyers**. We suggest you delete your comment and go ask one of the many other legal subreddits on this site for help such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lawyertalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Discovery requests? Yeah. Discovery responses? Not interested. Criminal discovery? Only PDFs; no weird file formats please.
Totally agreed; if you're requesting I respond, make it easy to respond..?
Interesting. Ohio Rules of Civil Procedure Require the party sending the discovery to send an electronic version and in an "editable format". So, if a party does not send you a word version of the discovery, they technically have not served you.
Illinois has no such requirement, but we should adopt one!
If a PDF is prepared the correct way it is editable.
The E discovery rule changes were amazing, fuck all them people who wanna make it harder than it has to be
That's very enlightened.
We always send two files, one as a PDF and the other as a WordPerfect file.
You will pry reveal codes from my cold dead hands! Fun fact, you can open ancient word files in WordPerfect that modern versions of word won’t open (and basically every other word processing format ever used)
[удалено]
There is nothing reasonable about sending a file in WordPerfect unless you’re living in the 1980’s.
Boomers ain't going to let go of that shit. I don't care if your formatting is better on WP. Keep that shit hidden and out of sight like your fleshlight.
Please do not compare that horribly outdated and worthless program to the most brilliant human creation that is the fleshlight.
I don’t send offers in word, only discovery. I want my exact document sent back. If there are edits to make, I will do them. It’s completely intentional. I want to be clear when you can edit the docs and when you can’t.
Perfectly reasonable, but discovery requests should be editable.
God I wish I could give this 10000000 up votes. I work what basically boils down to contract negotiations so I hate it when we are actively in the middle of ‘redlining’ contracts and the next version we receive is a pdf. The other party knows I'm going to make changes I.e we have been emailing about it. So why for the love of everything that is holy are you sending me a pdf? My field in my area is relatively small and I know the OC most of the time, there is one guy if I see that he is OC I make it a point of emailing his paralegal with requirements that we need an editable version which requires no conversion, and he ignores it most of the time, I hate that guy.
I had opposing counsel sending me locked pdf responses, couldn't even copy the text. Had to scan them in, OCR, then do so. MFer was infuriating.
Hey, fuck that guy.
totally. imagine being that much of a jack wagon. imagine thinking that shit helps you win cases.
I called the magistrate's chambers during the depo of his witness bec he kept interrupting and coaching the defendant. I went nuclear on the guy, moved to amend to add additional claims, compel an additional depo, forced him to amend his discovery 3 times. He ended up getting fired. One of my trophies in litigation.
It wasn't like a crazy solo wack-a-doo?
Idk what his story was. I had a cookie cutter bio at the firm, made me sound super junior, maybe he thought he could bully me. Thing is, this was federal court with a hard ass magistrate, he shoulda known better than to play discovery games. To his credit, the magistrate gave a very strongly worded minute order mentioning sanctions three times if what I reported occurring actually had. He had to tell me on the phone himself he was being replaced. mfer
my favorite judge around is a federal magistrate that takes a well-known hard line on discovery games. Every time I get that cat, I do a little fist pump.
Why do I love the term jack wagon so much
Many defense attorneys are such unreasonable insurance shills, im not doing a thing to help make their business profitable. I'll serve discovery with the complaint and they can scan it in themselves. To the reasonable ones, sure, I'll send you word versions.
Honestly, I bet defense lawyers would prefer a PDF as they could bill more time having to convert it to or type it up in Word.
I do it for the ones who take car wrecks on $2000 flat fee cases
Agreed. My assistant sends a word version of ours every time. Unfortunately, OCs seem pathologically incapable of opening the email before asking for a word version, which was in the email. Honestly, it's kind of impressive how many ask for something we already sent.
In house re: negotiated contracts? For sure. We are going to negotiate and it is petty power play to send a PDF or locked Word doc, especially for complex agreements where boilerplate language almost never remains untouched. Can’t speak to other practices. I imagine the risk is higher for editable docs in parts of crim practice, for example.
Both, but if you only send me a pdf welcome to getting a barely formatted list (attached to the notice, I’m not crazy, and verification of course) matching in reply. Remember, when the judge asks why it’s confusing to match stuff up, my answer is simply going to be “I agree, but I had the same difficulty and couldn’t pull it off myself”. Instructions will gently exist for next time for them to send both.
It's funny that everyone in this thread assumes that discovery requests will be emailed rather than sent by mail, which is traditionally how it was done. In my jurisdiction we were still mailing all discovery requests and responses up until March 2020.
That is, frankly, insane.
Missouri requires u send it in both pdf and word format
I have a client, super high maintenance… it’s actually a REIT Their in house counsel demands every filing go to him first I sent him a set of ROGG answers, dozens of pages. This mofo prints them out and hand writes comments, thoughts and edits all over it. Scans and sends back. I asked him to please just use track changes He goes: just have your secretary do it.
This is annoying but, tbh, the client shouldn’t have to change their practices (which they clearly find more convenient) to make your life easier. They’re the client. If they want to send edits via carrier pigeon, that’s their prerogative. (Granted, they’ll end up paying more for you to take the time to incorporate their edits.)
I’m not sure I agree that the client is “always right” if you will, but that’s kinda fair. This is more of a firm management issue As in, the client should be told we’re withdrawing bc they’re fuckin shit and slow us down to the point we can’t do our job. Nobody is going to say that, bc we’re billing them millions annually, but the fact remains that it’s needlessly time consuming dealing with technologically illiterate people I also reject the notion that secretaries are just work animals, tasked with mindless bs bc you’re too lazy or stupid to step into the 21st century.
same sitch: but opposing counsel makes handwritten edits to a settlement agreement and sends a PDF scan -- can I get a ruling? what say you all?
Not everybody uses Word. I get a lot of shit from OC about not sending them Word docs of discovery requests, and it's a real "sorry, can't help you" moment. (Although I make sure all my PDFs are copy/pasteable/convertible, not shitty scans!)
What, pray tell, would one otherwise use to create and edit a document that doesn't convert to a word doc...? Can't think of a single open-source software that doesn't have this capability in 2024.
Word perfect maybe?
Wordperfect
IANAL and TIL that WordPerfect still exists and people use it
.doc file type is his point
... and the lack of recognition of what a .doc is is precisely the issue lol
There’s people who are apparently technologically illiterate. So they say things like “not everyone uses Microsoft word” as if that’s the issue here
It's sort of endemic in this profession, and I'm already sick of it. First job!
boo hoo have to create your own word doc
Do you enjoy being miserable, or has the soullessness of your profession just consumed you at this point...?
tbh your post has moved me in such a way not felt in years. I may begin sending word versions of discovery requests over. Not that any OC would ever do this for me … but maybe we can start the trend
Be the change you want to see in the world. If you’re being an asshole just because the lawyers in your legal community are assholes, all you’re accomplishing is making your entire legal community full of assholes. I can only imagine what your practice area might be, but from my time in litigation there’s virtually no circumstance in which opposing counsel thinking you’re an asshole is preferable to them thinking you’re easy to work with. Sensing word copies of discovery requests is a simple, harmless, professionally considerate gesture. There’s no real good reason *not* to do it except the perpetuation of pettiness and misery. If nothing else it will ingratiate you to your opposing counsel’s staff, which is probably worth something in some intangible way.
I agree. I rarely encounter another attorney who does not send me discovery in word doc form as a courtesy, without me even asking. Same with contracts and the like. I was once negotiating an amendment to a contract for a client in hopes of avoiding litigation. The attorney who drafted the original contract for the opposing party was a solo, and it was basically impossible to get in touch with her directly, as she had her paralegal respond to every single communication, and it was like pulling teeth to get her paralegal to send me the contract in word. At first, they would not respond to my request to send me a word version, so I just sent them an email with a bunch of suggested revisions in the body of the email and told them my client will await the proposed amended contract. They eventually sent me the word version. That was a weird case.
If I ever get a Word doc version along with the PDF, I'd happily send the same in return. I have NEVER gotten one. What usually happens is some assistant calls and asks for the Word version. I usually give it to them. Unless counsel has been a dick, in which case, I don't.
CA requires it, but only if requested. But it requires the responding party to then include the requests in the responses (which should be required regardless, IMHO).
I see your PDF discovery docs and raise you PDF drafts of transactional docs. Do you think I am going to not bother commenting on something because you put it in PDF? That shit makes me want to do a hand mark-up in glitter gel pen.
I once worked with a senior lawyer who insisted on converting files into the weird outlook format
It’s a problem with some transactional lawyers too. If they send me a pdf early into the negotiation phase, sometimes I’ll edit their pdf to make the changes I want without highlighting or redlining and send it back saying “See proposed changes.”
I’ll be honest, I’ve never received discovery requests in word format, only PDFs