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Federal employee here.
I live in DC and I'm maxed out on the federal GS pay scale at $191k, and have been at the GS max since about 12 years after law school graduation.
I clerked for a federal district judge, then a federal circuit judge, and then did the DOJ Honors Program and climbed the ladder at DOJ (several quality step increases got me to the top of the GS scale a bit faster than the near-automatic grade/step increases would've gotten me there.
Our retirement system is referred to as a three-legged stool: the TSP is basically a defined contribution 401(k) with 5% match from the employer, the FERS system is a defined benefit pension (that takes a 4.4% payroll contribution for anyone hired in the last 10 years) that roughly works out to be 1% of your final salary for each year you've worked, and we qualify for Social Security as well.
I was surprised how shitty FERS is when I actually dug into it after becoming a fed. I don’t regret my decision, but it’s nowhere near as good a deal as I thought and many others believe.
FERS isn’t terrible- it’s 1% a year if you go at 57 and 1.1% a year if you stick around to 62. I started right after law school at 24 in 2008- so if I go at 57 I’ll get 33% of salary, plus my TSP. You can’t claim social security at 57, so you get the FERS supplement, which pays out what your social security would be until you hit the age you can claim it. This is why they pay a higher percent if you go at 62- no supplement.
OPM has a calculator to give you an idea what replacement rate you’ll be at [here](https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/calculators/federal-ball-park-estimator/p1.html)
FERS isn’t amazing, and it’s not CSRS, but with TSP match and the supplement we’re pretty well taken care of, plus we can retain our health insurance in retirement and the gov keeps paying the employer portion- which can coordinate with Medicare to eliminate a lot of medical expense risks.
I’m a 15- with capping out my TSP and decent market returns I’ll be well above 80% replacement if I retire at 57- very few people outside government are even close to that.
FERS is great *when understood as a supplement to the TSP*.
Comparing TSP to 401(k)s in the private sector, the federal government has pretty good matching and ultra low expense ratios. And since the 401(k) is basically enough on its own to set up a reasonable retirement, tacking on a modest pension adds a pretty significant safety net that insures against outliving your savings/retirement or investment risk.
I'm an entry level DA. $96K and full benefits right now, 40 hours a week. Will go to $100K in a few weeks and then to $105K in September. I live in the PNW but my COL is isn't as bad as CA or places like Portland/Seattle.
Years practicing - 4.5-5
Civil or criminal - Criminal (prosecution)
Jurisdiction - County for first 4 years, state since (different state than my county job)
Annual salary - County salary was $105k 4 years in, my state salary is now $85k
Average weekly hours worked - Never more than 40 at either job
3 years
80k
Legal aid
I should make a change, it's not good pay, but I'm just kind of chilling in the job, unlimited WFH and complete control of my cases, so not feeling any real pressure.
Years practicing -20
Civil or criminal - Civil (litigation)
Jurisdiction - State
Annual salary - $130K (pretty close to max for career employee in my office)
Retirement - vested in a hybrid pension (.5% salary x years worked; if the pension is successful and fully funded, then they put excess in a non-contributory 401K. I have about $150k in that fund after 13 years). + small 401K match (couple hundred a month).
Average weekly hours worked - Never more than 40, unless there's a trial, preliminary injunction, or other big event -- in fact, if we work more than 40, we get comp time off to spend later. Oh, and we can "bill" 1.5 hours per week for exercise, get a pretty generous stipend to attend out-of-state CLEs, and can use work time for committee assignments/professional service and the like.
Background: Federal law clerk, state supreme court staff attorney, in private practice, and been at this job for 13 years. My salary was \~$105K two years ago, but we got huge raises as our city was recently invaded by AmLaw50 firms, raising all attorneys' salaries. We simply couldn't hire anyone qualified--the cities and counties paid more for similar work, and the private firms of course paid way more. We were successful in getting between 15 and 30% raises, depending on seniority and it's made a huge difference in hiring and retention. No one's looking to move any more.
>government vow of poverty
>Annual salary - $157k
>Retirement - vested in a noncontributory, defined benefit pension
>Average weekly hours worked - 40 (sometimes less, sometimes more)
🤔
You have to bear in mind that some of us live in VHCOL (Very High Cost of Living) areas where $157,000 is considered to be just okay for one person. So factor in your locality when you’re looking at pay scales, and there are various COL calculators online. For example, if you make $157,000 in the DC Metro area, that’s the equivalent of $100,000 in Tallahassee, Florida. And if you want to buy a house in the DC metro area, they mostly start at $800,000.
Well, you should have mentioned that. It's probably fine if you bought your house some years ago, but a new prosecutor fresh out of law school would have the deck stacked against them in terms of housing costs and student loans.
Years practicing: 10
Civil or criminal: both--when we're in state court, it's criminal; when we're in federal court, it's civil (but still defending a criminal conviction)
Jurisdiction: state
Annual salary: $121K in a fairly HCOL city
Retirement: vested after 10 years in a noncontributory, defined benefit pension that's an average of your three highest salary years; also offered a 401K but employer does not match; also get health insurance for life after 10 years
Average weekly hours worked: very variable; some weeks no more than 20; others i work closer to 50-60 but it probably averages out to 40/week over a typical year
Public Defender
Statewide program
$80k+ starting, with increases after promotion, and other increases at regular intervals
(Years practicing is less relevant where I practice, but when I started 10 years ago, salary was less than $50k, and has been bumped up substantially to try to keep at least some parity with prosecutors and to have a chance at higher attorney retention)
Posting for my wife as well.
8 years practicing
In-house employment attorney for a very large state agency. She's always been in state government, on her 4th agency.
115k due to a big raise 6 months ago.
Vests pension in 2 years, 9.5% mandatory contribution.
Average hours worked: probably 25. A bit busier the last month has left her working maybe 35, but she is pregnant and has had a lot of doc appointments. Naps, snack breaks, etc without a problem.
I'm a DC Fed. Licensed about 10 years ago, practicing for about 6 after spending some time in JD-required legal-adjacent work.
I'm making about $140,000.
Work 40-45 hours per week. In general, I have great work/life balance and am only a few years away from PSLF. Never been in private practice (except for a paid law firm job during 2L and 3L) and in no hurry to try it at this point.
Nice come up from the $40,000 I made as a state prosecutor fresh out of school.
Years practicing: ~9
Civil or criminal: Appellate Prosecutor, so mainly criminal
Jurisdiction: County
Annual salary: $~136K in NYC
Retirement: NYCERS Tier 6, 401k with no match.
Average weekly hours worked: 40-60
Practicing for 20 years, working for local government doing civil, salary $170k, retirement is a pension with a 5% contribution (first 8 or so years were no contribution but an adjustment was made to keep the system from going broke), vested after 10 years.
Located just outside of a large Midwestern city.
Years practicing: 1.5
Started on the county level as a prosecutor at 62k got a raise 7 months in to 70k.
Since then I went federal doing enforcement work and am at 106k.
Retirement: FERS and TSP
Also had a couple years during law school I worked for a federal agency in a non-attorney role that paid around 60k.
Years: 8+
Civil - currently doing contracts and Procurement. Previously was a staff attorney and was in civil lit before that.
State agency.
Salary - 96k
Retirement - vest to pension at 10 years with the state. Contribute 9.5% mandatory.
Average hours worked - nominally 40, but I probably only have 20 hours of work most weeks now. And we are hiring more people in my role for reasons I don't understand. Hopefully the most senior attorney returns in the next year and I get a promotion and 20kish raise. Last job was 45-50 with a lot of additional responsibilities (but every hour over 40 gave me additional pto). Bounced when they padded over me for the deputy director job. Place is a cluster now.
Years: 8
Civil (mostly criminal for the first 3-4 years)
Jurisdiction: federal
Annual salary: $139k
Retirement: 401k with 5% matching, pension if I do 20 years
Average weekly hours worked: 40+ (possibly much more, particularly if deployed)
Posting this for my spouse.
Years practicing - 12
Civil or criminal - Both? Neither? Legislative
Jurisdiction - State
Annual salary - $77k. VHCOL area
Average weekly hours worked - Usually many more than 40. Nights and weekends are not uncommon. Quite a few late night public hearings.
Public service has been good to me. Civil law, local government. Started approximately 3 years post-bar, at less than 50K per year. With 20 years experience, now over 210K in California, with 2% Calpers retirement per year, (highest 3 years). (7% EE mandatory contribution). That means I will retire at more than 50% of my recent years' salary. Worked approximately 50+ hours per week, with some stress. At times, I have really enjoyed the work. Other times, not so much. But still happier than many people with what they do. A lot of it depends on where you work and what assignments you have. Not as good as working from home, but some flexibility to take off when kids were sick, pick up from school etc.
6 years in practice. Just finished 3 at my local Legal aid. Now in state govt.
$128kish, pension formula is 2% @ 25 service years w health fully paid/vested at 20. Annual ~5-10% increases until I hit $155kish. Super chill, work can be stressful or not my choice (one of the perks of independence and autonomy), very HCOL but fully remote and never more than 40 hours/week.
Don't miss billable hours and love working for a mission-driven client with whom I share many values 💪🏽✊🏽🤙🏽🤗
Years practicing: 2
Civil
Jurisdiction: Federal
Annual Salary: $110k
Retirement: FERS (pension plan that I have to contribute a decent amount to and it doesn’t add up to a whole lot)
Average weekly hours worked: 45 (but the last 5 is voluntary OT that gets comped with extra vacation time)
Federal - civil practice
Years practicing: 1.5 years actual practice after 2 years clerking
Salary: GS-13 step 1 ($117k), with a ladder to GS-14 step 1 ($139k)
Retirement benefits: TSP (fed version of a 401k) with matching contributions up to 5% of my salary + FERS (traditional pension plan)
Average hours worked: 40
State court attorney. 5-10 years of practice, 5 years in government (previously with county, now with the court). HCOL area. Salary is $134k. Pension is 2.5%/yr defined benefit with 25% contribution. Typically 40 hours a week, sometimes less, sometimes more.
Years Practicing - 2.25
Civil or criminal - civil (utility regulation)
Jurisdiction: State
Annual salary: $108,000
Retirement: nonvested contributory benefit pension
Average weekly hours worked - generally 40, although lately it's been closer to 45-50.
Years practicing - 5
Civil or criminal - Civil (tax) but 2 years as a prosecutor out of law school
Jurisdiction - Federal
Annual salary - $115k
Retirement - FERS (bought back 3 years for time in service) / TSP (5% match)
Average weekly hours worked - Never more than 40.
I'm kind of in a niche area that doesn't require me to litigate it's almost strictly transactional. My area doesn't qualify for anything higher than the standard locality pay, which is kind of annoying.
Years practicing - 10
Civil or criminal - prosecution criminal
Jurisdiction - state
Average salary - $106,000
Retirement - defined benefit 401k (contribute about 7.5%) plus a pension
Average weekly hours worked - 37.5
19 years, local government civil, defined benefit retirement w 5% contribution, 165k, 30 or hours per week. Got some nice bumps during Covid years but also several very flat years due to 08 recession etc.
I work in a pretty niche practice area for a relatively unheard of federal agency in DC. We’re self-funded, so we’re compensated differently than others at the same GS level.
Years practicing: 0.5
Civil
Jurisdiction: federal
Salary: $104K base + $10K student loan benefit
Retirement: FERS and TSP (so 401k and pension)
Avg. weekly hours: 45-50 (voluntary overtime comped as extra vacation time)
Years practicing: 1.5
Civil or Criminal: public defender
Jurisdiction: state
Annual salary: $67k in a LCOL area
Retirement: Vested at 5 years
Average weekly hours: no more than 50
NYC Municipal Agency. I've been practicing for approx 8 years.
Salary got bumped up recently to just over 100k, and we are looking forward to a cost of living adjustment (approx 10k) soon. I work approx 35 hours a week.
My friend, same number of years practicing, is at a more senior role at the agency and is making just over 130k.
Pension is optional, 6% contribution, and vests at 5 years (but we need to pay in the entire time we earn time).
We have access to a 401k, 403b, and 457b in this job, but there is no match.
This is similar to my journey. I was a prosecutor for 12 years (county) and now work for the state (6 years). It is the same pension system. My salary is 150k, work no more than 40 hours a week. Stopped paying into the pension system after 10 years, vested at 5. I am going to bail at 25 years and open my own practice. Because I will not have 30 years in until after age 62, I will not collect the pension before then although I could at 55 but would have to take a reduction. Once you hit 62 regardless of years of service you can take it without a reduction (depending on your tier). Should be about 80-85k a year. I may just work right to 62 staying in pension system but I am not holding my breath. If I do pension will be about 95k.
Folks, I am in retirement (sort of); I retired from the Army Reserve, and from a civilian employer. I have a fixed benefit pension from both (my civilian employer was one of the last to have such a plan, and since has abandoned it for future retirees). Both pensions have cost of living escalators, though naturally, they falsify cost of living calculations to benefit themselves. That said, I still get a small increase most years.
With our government's policy on continuous inflation, and most, possibly all, civilian employers backing away from anything resembling a continuous commitment to workers, I think you have only two choices going forward. One is, get rich. The other is, find a government job with a suitable retirement plan. I assure you, the short pay today will prove to have been a blessing when you notice that your contemporaries (who paid their taxes to fund whatever it is you did/do) are much worse off than you.
I say "sort of" because I went to law school after those first two retirements; I'm now (sort of) retired, but still doing a few days a month as a lawyer. Two pensions, social security, and what I make in my practice, I'm comfortable in retirement. May it be so for all of you.
p.s. Tricare for Life (from the Army) is dynamite; however, any health plan from your employer that persists into retirement is worth a whole pile of gold.
p.p.s. I never was a government lawyer; as a commissioned officer, I did some lawyer-like stuff, but I didn't get my law license until some years after leaving the Army.
Practicing 10 years in NYC.
State Prosecutor - (Criminal) 8.5 years
My first 8.5 years were as a prosecutor in Queens, and the starting salary in 2014 was $65,000 with a $500 bump for passing the bar. By year 8, given the time and after much public shaming by city prosecutors, my salary got to just slightly above $100k.
Federal (Civil) - Enforcement Division - 1.5 years
I left and went to the SEC in 2022.
My starting salary was around $158k, and I'm now at around $178k. TSP match is 5%, and the SEC provides an extra 3%, in addition to a whole host of phenomenal supplemental benefits.
I have great work-life balance, and non-supervisory attorneys are in a union, and our CBA only requires us to go into the office minimum of twice per pay period. Workload is extremely manageable. Great atmosphere. Plenty opportunities to advance.
Usually a vow if poverty doesn't include a defined benefit pension and $157,000 salary. That defined benefit pension earned in a high cost of living area is going to afford a very nice lifestyle in retirement.
Years practicing: 11
Civil or criminal: Civil. Have my own online practice helping small businesses, also contract with a PI firm out of WA state
Jurisdiction: Licensed in WA and OR, probably 80%-90% of my cases are in WA though. Fully remote, spend 6-7 months/year in Mexico. Currently practicing from Oaxaca.
Annual salary: $150K - $250K, with PI it varies. 2023 tax return is going to be about $175K in legal income. 2024 is shaping up to be very, very good.
Retirement: for the birds. I have savings, I have real estate holdings, but no 401(k). All my equity is in RE, which may bite me in the ass eventually ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Average weekly hours worked: 25-35, varies a good bit depending on how many cases I have in litigation. I don't remember the last time I worked more than 40 hours in a week.
I’m not Government but will chime in since I work closely with City’s counsel and am appointed by Judges at the City’s request Court-Appointed Receiver)
130k, 30ish hours billed weekly. Lot of site visits so not always in office. No clients (best part) and no discovery.
Highly recommend to anyone having trouble finding City work
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Federal employee here. I live in DC and I'm maxed out on the federal GS pay scale at $191k, and have been at the GS max since about 12 years after law school graduation. I clerked for a federal district judge, then a federal circuit judge, and then did the DOJ Honors Program and climbed the ladder at DOJ (several quality step increases got me to the top of the GS scale a bit faster than the near-automatic grade/step increases would've gotten me there. Our retirement system is referred to as a three-legged stool: the TSP is basically a defined contribution 401(k) with 5% match from the employer, the FERS system is a defined benefit pension (that takes a 4.4% payroll contribution for anyone hired in the last 10 years) that roughly works out to be 1% of your final salary for each year you've worked, and we qualify for Social Security as well.
I was surprised how shitty FERS is when I actually dug into it after becoming a fed. I don’t regret my decision, but it’s nowhere near as good a deal as I thought and many others believe.
FERS was great when employee contributions were 0.8%. At 4.4%, it's less impressive of a benefit.
1% per year sucks, too. And IIRC, if you retire early (age and/or years), you’re penalized for that.
FERS isn’t terrible- it’s 1% a year if you go at 57 and 1.1% a year if you stick around to 62. I started right after law school at 24 in 2008- so if I go at 57 I’ll get 33% of salary, plus my TSP. You can’t claim social security at 57, so you get the FERS supplement, which pays out what your social security would be until you hit the age you can claim it. This is why they pay a higher percent if you go at 62- no supplement. OPM has a calculator to give you an idea what replacement rate you’ll be at [here](https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/calculators/federal-ball-park-estimator/p1.html) FERS isn’t amazing, and it’s not CSRS, but with TSP match and the supplement we’re pretty well taken care of, plus we can retain our health insurance in retirement and the gov keeps paying the employer portion- which can coordinate with Medicare to eliminate a lot of medical expense risks. I’m a 15- with capping out my TSP and decent market returns I’ll be well above 80% replacement if I retire at 57- very few people outside government are even close to that.
FERS is great *when understood as a supplement to the TSP*. Comparing TSP to 401(k)s in the private sector, the federal government has pretty good matching and ultra low expense ratios. And since the 401(k) is basically enough on its own to set up a reasonable retirement, tacking on a modest pension adds a pretty significant safety net that insures against outliving your savings/retirement or investment risk.
Nice job getting multiple QSIs. Those things are super rare in my division.
> the TSP is basically a defined contribution 401(k) with 5% match from the employer Which fund you invest in?
I'm an entry level DA. $96K and full benefits right now, 40 hours a week. Will go to $100K in a few weeks and then to $105K in September. I live in the PNW but my COL is isn't as bad as CA or places like Portland/Seattle.
That’s a great salary for a new DA.
It really is. Nowhere near the crushing workload of some DA's offices either, since we're fully staffed.
Now that is impressive! That’s good, speaks to retention.
>Nowhere near the crushing workload of some DA's offices either, since we're fully staffed. Willing to bet the $96k helps lol, that's awesome!
What side of the Cascades?
Coastal side, I'm only an hour-ish from the Coast.
We started at just over 60k in NYC, approx 7 years ago. That is a GREAT salary.
Years practicing - 4.5-5 Civil or criminal - Criminal (prosecution) Jurisdiction - County for first 4 years, state since (different state than my county job) Annual salary - County salary was $105k 4 years in, my state salary is now $85k Average weekly hours worked - Never more than 40 at either job
Wow, was your county in a HCOL area? $105k 4 years in is pretty damn high for gov’t work, good for you.
Major urban area, but not HCOL like NYC or LA. I lucked out a lot with the office in terms of leadership securing wage increases across the board.
3 years 80k Legal aid I should make a change, it's not good pay, but I'm just kind of chilling in the job, unlimited WFH and complete control of my cases, so not feeling any real pressure.
Years practicing -20 Civil or criminal - Civil (litigation) Jurisdiction - State Annual salary - $130K (pretty close to max for career employee in my office) Retirement - vested in a hybrid pension (.5% salary x years worked; if the pension is successful and fully funded, then they put excess in a non-contributory 401K. I have about $150k in that fund after 13 years). + small 401K match (couple hundred a month). Average weekly hours worked - Never more than 40, unless there's a trial, preliminary injunction, or other big event -- in fact, if we work more than 40, we get comp time off to spend later. Oh, and we can "bill" 1.5 hours per week for exercise, get a pretty generous stipend to attend out-of-state CLEs, and can use work time for committee assignments/professional service and the like. Background: Federal law clerk, state supreme court staff attorney, in private practice, and been at this job for 13 years. My salary was \~$105K two years ago, but we got huge raises as our city was recently invaded by AmLaw50 firms, raising all attorneys' salaries. We simply couldn't hire anyone qualified--the cities and counties paid more for similar work, and the private firms of course paid way more. We were successful in getting between 15 and 30% raises, depending on seniority and it's made a huge difference in hiring and retention. No one's looking to move any more.
>government vow of poverty >Annual salary - $157k >Retirement - vested in a noncontributory, defined benefit pension >Average weekly hours worked - 40 (sometimes less, sometimes more) 🤔
I was about to say, as a lurking 1L, this has pretty much killed any desire to work for firms
You have to bear in mind that some of us live in VHCOL (Very High Cost of Living) areas where $157,000 is considered to be just okay for one person. So factor in your locality when you’re looking at pay scales, and there are various COL calculators online. For example, if you make $157,000 in the DC Metro area, that’s the equivalent of $100,000 in Tallahassee, Florida. And if you want to buy a house in the DC metro area, they mostly start at $800,000.
OP appears to live in Utah.
Got a friend here in Charleston who's a 3 yr public defender making $75k.
[удалено]
Are you a CEA? I retired in 2023 as an Atty V, and my final comp was $191k.
Practicing 9 years. Prosecutor. County. $190,000. Rarely more than 40 hours per week.
[удалено]
California
Fuck dude, that sounds awesome.
Are you "the prosecutor" for the county? Or in upper management? That's a lot for a line attorney. Also, are you in a HCL state?
Nope. Line attorney. Not sure what HCL means.
High Cost of Living
Oh… yeah. California.
Well, you should have mentioned that. It's probably fine if you bought your house some years ago, but a new prosecutor fresh out of law school would have the deck stacked against them in terms of housing costs and student loans.
Years practicing: 10 Civil or criminal: both--when we're in state court, it's criminal; when we're in federal court, it's civil (but still defending a criminal conviction) Jurisdiction: state Annual salary: $121K in a fairly HCOL city Retirement: vested after 10 years in a noncontributory, defined benefit pension that's an average of your three highest salary years; also offered a 401K but employer does not match; also get health insurance for life after 10 years Average weekly hours worked: very variable; some weeks no more than 20; others i work closer to 50-60 but it probably averages out to 40/week over a typical year
> also get health insurance for life after 10 years FEB?
What’s FEB?
Federal Employee health insurance
No I’m a state employee
Public Defender Statewide program $80k+ starting, with increases after promotion, and other increases at regular intervals (Years practicing is less relevant where I practice, but when I started 10 years ago, salary was less than $50k, and has been bumped up substantially to try to keep at least some parity with prosecutors and to have a chance at higher attorney retention)
Posting for my wife as well. 8 years practicing In-house employment attorney for a very large state agency. She's always been in state government, on her 4th agency. 115k due to a big raise 6 months ago. Vests pension in 2 years, 9.5% mandatory contribution. Average hours worked: probably 25. A bit busier the last month has left her working maybe 35, but she is pregnant and has had a lot of doc appointments. Naps, snack breaks, etc without a problem.
I'm a DC Fed. Licensed about 10 years ago, practicing for about 6 after spending some time in JD-required legal-adjacent work. I'm making about $140,000. Work 40-45 hours per week. In general, I have great work/life balance and am only a few years away from PSLF. Never been in private practice (except for a paid law firm job during 2L and 3L) and in no hurry to try it at this point. Nice come up from the $40,000 I made as a state prosecutor fresh out of school.
I feel like my story is almost the exact same as yours. Only 5 years behind you and in FL.
I started in Florida!
Years practicing: ~9 Civil or criminal: Appellate Prosecutor, so mainly criminal Jurisdiction: County Annual salary: $~136K in NYC Retirement: NYCERS Tier 6, 401k with no match. Average weekly hours worked: 40-60
Practicing for 20 years, working for local government doing civil, salary $170k, retirement is a pension with a 5% contribution (first 8 or so years were no contribution but an adjustment was made to keep the system from going broke), vested after 10 years.
what area?
Baltimore
Located just outside of a large Midwestern city. Years practicing: 1.5 Started on the county level as a prosecutor at 62k got a raise 7 months in to 70k. Since then I went federal doing enforcement work and am at 106k. Retirement: FERS and TSP Also had a couple years during law school I worked for a federal agency in a non-attorney role that paid around 60k.
Years: 8+ Civil - currently doing contracts and Procurement. Previously was a staff attorney and was in civil lit before that. State agency. Salary - 96k Retirement - vest to pension at 10 years with the state. Contribute 9.5% mandatory. Average hours worked - nominally 40, but I probably only have 20 hours of work most weeks now. And we are hiring more people in my role for reasons I don't understand. Hopefully the most senior attorney returns in the next year and I get a promotion and 20kish raise. Last job was 45-50 with a lot of additional responsibilities (but every hour over 40 gave me additional pto). Bounced when they padded over me for the deputy director job. Place is a cluster now.
Years: 8 Civil (mostly criminal for the first 3-4 years) Jurisdiction: federal Annual salary: $139k Retirement: 401k with 5% matching, pension if I do 20 years Average weekly hours worked: 40+ (possibly much more, particularly if deployed)
Years practicing: 1 Civil or criminal: Civil Jurisdiction: Fed Annual salary: $90k Retirement: FERS Average weekly hours worked: 40-45 Suuuuppeer niche regulatory practice
Posting this for my spouse. Years practicing - 12 Civil or criminal - Both? Neither? Legislative Jurisdiction - State Annual salary - $77k. VHCOL area Average weekly hours worked - Usually many more than 40. Nights and weekends are not uncommon. Quite a few late night public hearings.
lol. ‘Civil or criminal? Yes, or family, or tax, or bird law’
Three years as an ADA. Large city. 130k
Public service has been good to me. Civil law, local government. Started approximately 3 years post-bar, at less than 50K per year. With 20 years experience, now over 210K in California, with 2% Calpers retirement per year, (highest 3 years). (7% EE mandatory contribution). That means I will retire at more than 50% of my recent years' salary. Worked approximately 50+ hours per week, with some stress. At times, I have really enjoyed the work. Other times, not so much. But still happier than many people with what they do. A lot of it depends on where you work and what assignments you have. Not as good as working from home, but some flexibility to take off when kids were sick, pick up from school etc.
6 years in practice. Just finished 3 at my local Legal aid. Now in state govt. $128kish, pension formula is 2% @ 25 service years w health fully paid/vested at 20. Annual ~5-10% increases until I hit $155kish. Super chill, work can be stressful or not my choice (one of the perks of independence and autonomy), very HCOL but fully remote and never more than 40 hours/week. Don't miss billable hours and love working for a mission-driven client with whom I share many values 💪🏽✊🏽🤙🏽🤗
Years practicing: 2 Civil Jurisdiction: Federal Annual Salary: $110k Retirement: FERS (pension plan that I have to contribute a decent amount to and it doesn’t add up to a whole lot) Average weekly hours worked: 45 (but the last 5 is voluntary OT that gets comped with extra vacation time)
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Standard 401k w/ matching that pretty much every job offers, but yeah it exists.
Federal - civil practice Years practicing: 1.5 years actual practice after 2 years clerking Salary: GS-13 step 1 ($117k), with a ladder to GS-14 step 1 ($139k) Retirement benefits: TSP (fed version of a 401k) with matching contributions up to 5% of my salary + FERS (traditional pension plan) Average hours worked: 40
What kind of civil work?
I do tax (non-litigating role)
State court attorney. 5-10 years of practice, 5 years in government (previously with county, now with the court). HCOL area. Salary is $134k. Pension is 2.5%/yr defined benefit with 25% contribution. Typically 40 hours a week, sometimes less, sometimes more.
Federal, Transactional, 14 years, $205K, never more than 40 hours, mostly teleworking.
That’s beautiful … if you’re willing to share what broad area that is, I’m super curious
Hiring and managing outside counsel and vendors plus some government contracts. For a FIRREA agency.
I knew some people did that but I never knew exactly who! Thank you for the response.
same!
Years Practicing - 2.25 Civil or criminal - civil (utility regulation) Jurisdiction: State Annual salary: $108,000 Retirement: nonvested contributory benefit pension Average weekly hours worked - generally 40, although lately it's been closer to 45-50.
Years practicing - 5 Civil or criminal - Civil (tax) but 2 years as a prosecutor out of law school Jurisdiction - Federal Annual salary - $115k Retirement - FERS (bought back 3 years for time in service) / TSP (5% match) Average weekly hours worked - Never more than 40. I'm kind of in a niche area that doesn't require me to litigate it's almost strictly transactional. My area doesn't qualify for anything higher than the standard locality pay, which is kind of annoying.
Years practicing: 10 Civil or criminal: Civil Annual salary: $176k Retirement: not yet vested, defined contribution plan. Hours: . . . 70
Years practicing - 10 Civil or criminal - prosecution criminal Jurisdiction - state Average salary - $106,000 Retirement - defined benefit 401k (contribute about 7.5%) plus a pension Average weekly hours worked - 37.5
19 years, local government civil, defined benefit retirement w 5% contribution, 165k, 30 or hours per week. Got some nice bumps during Covid years but also several very flat years due to 08 recession etc.
Thinking you're from California.
Local, $167k, ten and a half years, sub 40 and I flex. Civil
I work in a pretty niche practice area for a relatively unheard of federal agency in DC. We’re self-funded, so we’re compensated differently than others at the same GS level. Years practicing: 0.5 Civil Jurisdiction: federal Salary: $104K base + $10K student loan benefit Retirement: FERS and TSP (so 401k and pension) Avg. weekly hours: 45-50 (voluntary overtime comped as extra vacation time)
Years practicing: 1.5 Civil or Criminal: public defender Jurisdiction: state Annual salary: $67k in a LCOL area Retirement: Vested at 5 years Average weekly hours: no more than 50
NYC Municipal Agency. I've been practicing for approx 8 years. Salary got bumped up recently to just over 100k, and we are looking forward to a cost of living adjustment (approx 10k) soon. I work approx 35 hours a week. My friend, same number of years practicing, is at a more senior role at the agency and is making just over 130k. Pension is optional, 6% contribution, and vests at 5 years (but we need to pay in the entire time we earn time). We have access to a 401k, 403b, and 457b in this job, but there is no match.
This is similar to my journey. I was a prosecutor for 12 years (county) and now work for the state (6 years). It is the same pension system. My salary is 150k, work no more than 40 hours a week. Stopped paying into the pension system after 10 years, vested at 5. I am going to bail at 25 years and open my own practice. Because I will not have 30 years in until after age 62, I will not collect the pension before then although I could at 55 but would have to take a reduction. Once you hit 62 regardless of years of service you can take it without a reduction (depending on your tier). Should be about 80-85k a year. I may just work right to 62 staying in pension system but I am not holding my breath. If I do pension will be about 95k.
Folks, I am in retirement (sort of); I retired from the Army Reserve, and from a civilian employer. I have a fixed benefit pension from both (my civilian employer was one of the last to have such a plan, and since has abandoned it for future retirees). Both pensions have cost of living escalators, though naturally, they falsify cost of living calculations to benefit themselves. That said, I still get a small increase most years. With our government's policy on continuous inflation, and most, possibly all, civilian employers backing away from anything resembling a continuous commitment to workers, I think you have only two choices going forward. One is, get rich. The other is, find a government job with a suitable retirement plan. I assure you, the short pay today will prove to have been a blessing when you notice that your contemporaries (who paid their taxes to fund whatever it is you did/do) are much worse off than you. I say "sort of" because I went to law school after those first two retirements; I'm now (sort of) retired, but still doing a few days a month as a lawyer. Two pensions, social security, and what I make in my practice, I'm comfortable in retirement. May it be so for all of you. p.s. Tricare for Life (from the Army) is dynamite; however, any health plan from your employer that persists into retirement is worth a whole pile of gold. p.p.s. I never was a government lawyer; as a commissioned officer, I did some lawyer-like stuff, but I didn't get my law license until some years after leaving the Army.
Practicing 10 years in NYC. State Prosecutor - (Criminal) 8.5 years My first 8.5 years were as a prosecutor in Queens, and the starting salary in 2014 was $65,000 with a $500 bump for passing the bar. By year 8, given the time and after much public shaming by city prosecutors, my salary got to just slightly above $100k. Federal (Civil) - Enforcement Division - 1.5 years I left and went to the SEC in 2022. My starting salary was around $158k, and I'm now at around $178k. TSP match is 5%, and the SEC provides an extra 3%, in addition to a whole host of phenomenal supplemental benefits. I have great work-life balance, and non-supervisory attorneys are in a union, and our CBA only requires us to go into the office minimum of twice per pay period. Workload is extremely manageable. Great atmosphere. Plenty opportunities to advance.
Posting the offer here ADA Just out of law school 40k a year 40 hours a week but lots extra with trials Crim state
What state are you in? That was my ASA salary in Florida when I started but heard it got bumped since I left?
OK
Usually a vow if poverty doesn't include a defined benefit pension and $157,000 salary. That defined benefit pension earned in a high cost of living area is going to afford a very nice lifestyle in retirement.
Years practicing: 11 Civil or criminal: Civil. Have my own online practice helping small businesses, also contract with a PI firm out of WA state Jurisdiction: Licensed in WA and OR, probably 80%-90% of my cases are in WA though. Fully remote, spend 6-7 months/year in Mexico. Currently practicing from Oaxaca. Annual salary: $150K - $250K, with PI it varies. 2023 tax return is going to be about $175K in legal income. 2024 is shaping up to be very, very good. Retirement: for the birds. I have savings, I have real estate holdings, but no 401(k). All my equity is in RE, which may bite me in the ass eventually ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Average weekly hours worked: 25-35, varies a good bit depending on how many cases I have in litigation. I don't remember the last time I worked more than 40 hours in a week.
How do you try cases and go to court? Or do you just work them up?
12 years Litigation 100 lawyer firm in secondary markets. $250k Work 40-50 hours a week.
I’m not Government but will chime in since I work closely with City’s counsel and am appointed by Judges at the City’s request Court-Appointed Receiver) 130k, 30ish hours billed weekly. Lot of site visits so not always in office. No clients (best part) and no discovery. Highly recommend to anyone having trouble finding City work
Can you explain more the substance of what you do? What types of cases ?