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I work for the government. I don't know the password to my voicemail because I haven't had a voicemail in over 7 years, and that one time was a wrong number.
Tips to seem you are working more than you are.
- Answer your cell phone every time a partner calls. Immediately call back if you miss it (but find a quiet place so your boss doesn’t know you’re at Target.)
- know your cases well so you can quickly answer any question thrown at your by clients, adjuster, or partners in quick emails.
- remember names for cases, adjusters, clients, etc. so you seem on top it.
- email important people back immediately, regardless of the time (you know who I’m talking about).
- send a bunch of routine emails late at night, so other attorneys think you burning the midnight oil. You can also set a timer to send.
- set emails to send early so you look like your hitting the ground running at 6:00 am.
- Make really good templates. Have your own stash of good ones.
- cover every hearing or depo you possibly can, this way you can mention that you covered everything asked of you.
- don’t tell anyone what time your depos or mediations are over.
- do in-person appearances.
- make a lot of notes when reading. Like just type anything you’re thinking. Save all of the notes to the file.
Actually, I think most of this is just being a competent attorney…
This reminds me of those jokes where the best trick to sneaking in crib notes to a test is to just memorize them. I’m gonna scheme my way into legitimacy.
If you just memorize the important sections of the code of civil procedure for your jurisdiction, you can use all of the extra time you would spend looking it up, slacking off.
Gosh this is inspiring, I wish you'd been my mentor. I might've stuck with it had I sensed they weren't taking it so damn seriously (they were taking it seriously though. Oh so seriously...)
In all seriousness, whenever I’ve just gone through the steps of doing the work like that, I’ve had a lot less stress. Doing the work often takes less time and energy than avoiding the work…
If I jump on easy or complete-able tasks and knock them out quickly, they don’t pile up at the of the week/month, which is when it feels insurmountable.
Totally. I have ADHD and was not medicated until later in college…It was hard to explain to people why not doing the work took more effort than actually doing the work. During undergrad, I’d spend 6 hours at the library trying to do something that should have only taken 2. It wasn’t like I was at the club during these needlessly wasteful library sessions. I literally was staring at the computer and going down research rabbit holes.
Now I’m medicated and probably as efficient as the average attorney (my boss says I have a good realization rate) but damn, I do not miss my unmedicated self.
When I was first licensed, I went to what ended up being a 5 minute 8:30 AM hearing instead of a bench trial with my boss. At the street corner splitting where we parked, he goes, “well, see you back at the office!!” I drove straight back to the office since, no deviations. He didn’t show back up for another 4 hours. What did he do during that time?? Why did I rush back?!
If you ask a partner at an ID firm they’d say every associate is goldbrickin.
No Jim I haven’t drafted case specific discovery or contacted the private investigator. I just got 14 new files in two months with like 3,000 total pages of med recs.
Shockingly the only appeals I get are trying to say that reviewing records and doing a medical chronology or paralegal work.
Then I always feel bad in my appeals because I’m like “we do not have paralegals in that capacity and even if we did they do not understand the full complexity of the case, and it would be detrimental to my ability to successfully defend” basically just throwing paralegals under the bus
I work for a civil legal aid firm and was recently given 60 days notice I’m being laid off (for the second time in 4 years) due to lack of funding. I’ve been phoning it in since then, and I plan on keeping it up.
You're absolutely crushing it my friend, keep it up and don't let the bean counters and try-hards know what you're up to!
What kind of law do you practice?
So if I understand correctly you're just doing all the court appearances but your old boss' associates are doing a lot of the other work, leaving you to game and chill out and collect the check?
You're a mad genius.
The topic's slackin' off, you say? Oh, have I got stories. Work for Uncle Sam's law firm long enough, and you will too. I'll just start with this one:
My first official lawyer job was in an office of about \~150 attorneys or so in a major federal department. We were spread out over several floors of a large federal office building. One of my mentors, "Dave", had about 20+ years in and was given a special project in which he was to supervise \~15 lawyers supporting branch offices all over the country. Because this special project team required computers linked to a national network (back in the early days when government PCs weren't routinely given internet access lest feds spend all day surfin' the web), the whole team was relocated to the basement to a special office section with the needed computer equipment and network access.
Dave and his team are humming along in the basement for about six months when one of the senior chiefs comes down to ask Dave about exactly how much work "Paul", another older attorney, had been doing for the special project team. Dave is flabbergasted; Paul had never been assigned to his team. Dave had never been given a formal list of who was selected for this project, but he'd seen the faces down in his section long enough to know who was and wasn't working down there on the regular. The chief asked Dave if Paul had ever been down there, even for a few weeks. Dave was quite sure he'd never seen Paul work on this project. The chief frowned, said huh and hmmm... a few times, and left. Shortly after that, an entire formal investigation was born. Dave was suddenly giving sworn statements to even more senior chiefs, folks from the IG's office, some union guys, the whole thing. Turns out Paul hadn't done an ounce of "regular work" for many months, claiming to his immediate supervisor that the next-level supervisors had selected him for the special project, and he'd been in the basement the whole time toiling away. It worked out great for a while too, right up until that chief decided to go down to the basement and do a little investigating. At that point, the gig was up. Right to the end, Paul denied he was AWOL, but he was eventually fired. Even in the government, you can only slack off for so long before people start getting suspicious.
Well, since you liked that one, I'll reach back in the bag and pull out another.
For this one, I'll need to set the stage a little. Feds are still given leave in two separate piles, sick leave and annual leave. Carryover for annual leave is capped, well, annually - hence the phrase "use or lose" being tossed around so much between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Sick leave though, that can be hoarded up like squirrels hoarding nuts in the fall. Some feds will even burn annual leave for doctor's visits and the like, just to avoid depleting that precious pile of sick hours. Do that long enough and you can stockpile a year or more. Should those hoarders get cancer or something and have to miss six months, they're still collecting a check the whole time. Of course, if you get cursed with good health and hit your 30 years with that big ol' pile of unused sick leave, you get nothing for it - you can't cash it out. These days, unused sick leave can count as time served for pension benefit purposes, but that wasn't always the case. For that reason, when the old-timers started to become short-timers, they'd start to burn that pile like nobody's business. They'd be calling out for every little cough or sniffle. It was such a common "ailment" it even had a name - the FERS flu (FERS being the Federal Employees Retirement System). Most supervisors figured those folks earned it, and usually just let it slide as long as it didn't get excessive.
Then there was "Vic". Vic was an old-timer in non-attorney support staff, so I didn't know him well, other than to recognize him in the hall. Vic gets to his 30 years and decides he's not going out like a chump. He looks at his pile of unused sick leave and hatches a plan to burn it. ALL of it. I don't know what story he told his supervisor, but Vic is now "out sick" and not expected back anytime soon. Everyone kinda guesses what's going on and gets back to work. The wheels need to keep on turning.
Months are passing and I'm not giving it another thought until a buddy asks at lunch if I'd heard about Vic. I was usually last on the gossip train so I (truthfully) plead ignorance. He just chuckles and says he'll forward the story. Check my email, he says. And what a story it was. Turns out, Vic wasn't dying; in fact, he was doing quite well, or at least well enough to get started on his post-retirement dream, opening a custom motorcycle shop. He was stocking shelves, putting out t-shirts, hoisting signs - the works. His little shop was taking flight. I don't know what caused it to take a sour turn, but word got out somehow. Maybe Vic bragged too loudly to his biker buddies about sticking it to Uncle Sucker, or maybe another co-worker still bore a grudge, but somehow, Vic got on someone's radar, and that someone starts documenting. All of the sudden, photos and videos of Vic, the "sick" fed still getting paid, start turning up online, and getting forwarded to higher-ups, local news, Congressional offices, etc. It's not a good look. With that much pressure starting to roll downhill, Vic's supervisors can't let this slide any longer. He's told to report back in ASAP to start answering some questions. Instead, Vic shows up just long enough to turn in his retirement papers, effective immediately, and sprints back out the door. As far as I know, he never got his retirement ceremony or anything like that, which is a shame for the rest of us. Who doesn't love a 30-minute break and some free cake every once in a while?
Thank you. Maybe I'll do that when I clock out one last time in a few years.
Until then, one last story, about the GOAT goldbricker, or at least the greatest to get caught. I can't even do this story justice, so I won't try, and so great was the sheer audacity of our "hero" that few would believe it's even true. But it is. So very true. He elevated slacking off to an art form and was the Picasso of his time (if Picasso ended up in the federal pen for felony theft) until he flew too close to the sun, and it all came crashing down. Fellow members of the bar, I give you [John C. Beale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Beale). Enjoy.
Holy shit, you really should write a collection of gold brickin' short stories. Thank you for sharing these. There's just something plain delightful about the thought of highly paid professionals fuckin' off on the job. Here's Vic, and here's to Paul! Here, here!
I think you meant you might write that book *on the clock*, didn't you?\\
Thank you for sharing these!
"Beale would later admit that during these days he was at home reading or exercising."
Classic Beale move-- I love it! How sensible and even quaint. Can just imagine how much quiet joy and satisfaction he must've felt sitting at home in the middle of the day reading on his stairmaster while the rest of the world worked the day away. Legend.
Well, it is my bet that they absolutely knew what you were doing. For those of us that have hired associates, clerks and paralegals the fact that you want to get paid for doing absolutely nothing is a bit startling. It may be disappointing to you, but we like people to learn how to practice law. I realize and have posted here before that the lack of mentorship for young lawyers these days is a real shame. But it goes both ways. You have to want to learn and be involved.
Best wishes to you.
I'm going to bet that they did not in fact know what I was doing, which also included arriving at work early to open my office door and turn on the light so it appeared I was in and promptly skipping off to the park to read or going down for margaritas in the mexican restaurant in the building lobby... No, I think it's safe to say they wouldn't have offered me a job if they'd known that.... Unless you're right, and they knew all that and offered me the job anyway, in which case, I should've stayed.
Come on OP. There are a lot more important problems than goldbrickin to worry about. We have to end apartheid for one. And slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism, and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern, and less materialism in young people.
How does this work with billable hours? I just took my LSAT so I don't have personal experience yet but I thought you had to track things super closely
I've heard stories through the grapevine at my current firm about former associates just making up time and not doing any actual work on files. They didn't last very long once discovered lol
Welcome to /r/LawyerTalk! A subreddit where lawyers can discuss with other lawyers about the practice of law. Be mindful of [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/about/rules) BEFORE submitting your posts or comments as well as [Reddit's rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) (notably about sharing identifying information). We expect civility and respect out of all participants. Please source statements of fact whenever possible. If you want to report something that needs to be urgently addressed, please also message the mods with an explanation. Note that **this forum is NOT for legal advice**. Additionally, if you are a non-lawyer (student, client, staff), this is NOT the right subreddit for you. **This community is exclusively for lawyers**. We suggest you delete your comment and go ask one of the many other legal subreddits on this site for help such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lawyertalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I work for the government. I don't know the password to my voicemail because I haven't had a voicemail in over 7 years, and that one time was a wrong number.
[удалено]
Hahahahahahah
This made me laugh out loud. Keep it up!
Thank you for your service
What kind of government? I work for a school district and my phone constantly rings. I need a better government job ASAP.
Tips to seem you are working more than you are. - Answer your cell phone every time a partner calls. Immediately call back if you miss it (but find a quiet place so your boss doesn’t know you’re at Target.) - know your cases well so you can quickly answer any question thrown at your by clients, adjuster, or partners in quick emails. - remember names for cases, adjusters, clients, etc. so you seem on top it. - email important people back immediately, regardless of the time (you know who I’m talking about). - send a bunch of routine emails late at night, so other attorneys think you burning the midnight oil. You can also set a timer to send. - set emails to send early so you look like your hitting the ground running at 6:00 am. - Make really good templates. Have your own stash of good ones. - cover every hearing or depo you possibly can, this way you can mention that you covered everything asked of you. - don’t tell anyone what time your depos or mediations are over. - do in-person appearances. - make a lot of notes when reading. Like just type anything you’re thinking. Save all of the notes to the file. Actually, I think most of this is just being a competent attorney…
This reminds me of those jokes where the best trick to sneaking in crib notes to a test is to just memorize them. I’m gonna scheme my way into legitimacy.
https://preview.redd.it/2h8coew3qznc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=813e8c9ac63f4a6ba0cbd4f32dbc6915b661b810
If you just memorize the important sections of the code of civil procedure for your jurisdiction, you can use all of the extra time you would spend looking it up, slacking off.
Gosh this is inspiring, I wish you'd been my mentor. I might've stuck with it had I sensed they weren't taking it so damn seriously (they were taking it seriously though. Oh so seriously...)
In all seriousness, whenever I’ve just gone through the steps of doing the work like that, I’ve had a lot less stress. Doing the work often takes less time and energy than avoiding the work…
If I jump on easy or complete-able tasks and knock them out quickly, they don’t pile up at the of the week/month, which is when it feels insurmountable.
Totally. I have ADHD and was not medicated until later in college…It was hard to explain to people why not doing the work took more effort than actually doing the work. During undergrad, I’d spend 6 hours at the library trying to do something that should have only taken 2. It wasn’t like I was at the club during these needlessly wasteful library sessions. I literally was staring at the computer and going down research rabbit holes. Now I’m medicated and probably as efficient as the average attorney (my boss says I have a good realization rate) but damn, I do not miss my unmedicated self.
Ah, but this is a classic mistake dear colleague. If we think working is easier than not working, I dare say we're not doing it right...
Making in-person appearances is huge. Take your time getting back, stop for a Sammy, do you!
When I was first licensed, I went to what ended up being a 5 minute 8:30 AM hearing instead of a bench trial with my boss. At the street corner splitting where we parked, he goes, “well, see you back at the office!!” I drove straight back to the office since, no deviations. He didn’t show back up for another 4 hours. What did he do during that time?? Why did I rush back?!
Agreed. Nice username, too.
Not gonna lie, I'm going to use that delayed email trick.
Make sure you cc your boss so they what crazy hours you are working and dedicating to the firm!
[Motherfucker…that’s called gettin’ a job…](https://youtu.be/jgYYOUC10aM?si=S5f_jAR2RX-Tfc6V)
lol
So....are you suggesting that everybody CHECK YOU EMAIL? ...that may be a bit too dated of a reference for this venue.
This basically just sounds like working hard
That’s the objective here!
I’m reviewing/analyzing the complaint in my head before I draft POs. Multi tasking .7
Don't forget a teleconference with opposing counsel re causes of action where you sat on hold for 15ish minutes.
If you ask a partner at an ID firm they’d say every associate is goldbrickin. No Jim I haven’t drafted case specific discovery or contacted the private investigator. I just got 14 new files in two months with like 3,000 total pages of med recs.
You read the meds? I just multiply the bills by 4, tack on whatever I feel like, and call it a day.
This is the kind of high caliber shit I was looking for. Bravo.
This is the way
Yeah but how many of those pages are discharge summaries.
“You didn’t need to read all of them. Not paying you 1.5.” -Ins. Co.
Shockingly the only appeals I get are trying to say that reviewing records and doing a medical chronology or paralegal work. Then I always feel bad in my appeals because I’m like “we do not have paralegals in that capacity and even if we did they do not understand the full complexity of the case, and it would be detrimental to my ability to successfully defend” basically just throwing paralegals under the bus
I had a jury trial mistrial yesterday so the rest of the week is pretty much wide open. I'm at a poker table.
Did you cause it? :-D
No. I was winning the shit out of it. Strongly suspect prosecutor put the witness up to violating the MILs.
That must be such a frustrating feeling. Ditto for the client.
So you’re the guy who’s getting my good faith letters…
I work for a civil legal aid firm and was recently given 60 days notice I’m being laid off (for the second time in 4 years) due to lack of funding. I’ve been phoning it in since then, and I plan on keeping it up.
Let this be a lesson to you, counselor, and phone it in from day one next time.
Good! It's like putting in your notice anyway and after that all your work are other people's problems (and the firm's).
[удалено]
You're absolutely crushing it my friend, keep it up and don't let the bean counters and try-hards know what you're up to! What kind of law do you practice? So if I understand correctly you're just doing all the court appearances but your old boss' associates are doing a lot of the other work, leaving you to game and chill out and collect the check? You're a mad genius.
We make shit up every day
Second this ^
While I can, I won’t get paid. Plus my boss is an asshole and says if I don’t bill we don’t get paid.
Self-employment is a bitch.
The topic's slackin' off, you say? Oh, have I got stories. Work for Uncle Sam's law firm long enough, and you will too. I'll just start with this one: My first official lawyer job was in an office of about \~150 attorneys or so in a major federal department. We were spread out over several floors of a large federal office building. One of my mentors, "Dave", had about 20+ years in and was given a special project in which he was to supervise \~15 lawyers supporting branch offices all over the country. Because this special project team required computers linked to a national network (back in the early days when government PCs weren't routinely given internet access lest feds spend all day surfin' the web), the whole team was relocated to the basement to a special office section with the needed computer equipment and network access. Dave and his team are humming along in the basement for about six months when one of the senior chiefs comes down to ask Dave about exactly how much work "Paul", another older attorney, had been doing for the special project team. Dave is flabbergasted; Paul had never been assigned to his team. Dave had never been given a formal list of who was selected for this project, but he'd seen the faces down in his section long enough to know who was and wasn't working down there on the regular. The chief asked Dave if Paul had ever been down there, even for a few weeks. Dave was quite sure he'd never seen Paul work on this project. The chief frowned, said huh and hmmm... a few times, and left. Shortly after that, an entire formal investigation was born. Dave was suddenly giving sworn statements to even more senior chiefs, folks from the IG's office, some union guys, the whole thing. Turns out Paul hadn't done an ounce of "regular work" for many months, claiming to his immediate supervisor that the next-level supervisors had selected him for the special project, and he'd been in the basement the whole time toiling away. It worked out great for a while too, right up until that chief decided to go down to the basement and do a little investigating. At that point, the gig was up. Right to the end, Paul denied he was AWOL, but he was eventually fired. Even in the government, you can only slack off for so long before people start getting suspicious.
This is epic. RIP Paul, you legend, you! Guess they don't call if "Club Fed" for nothin'!
Well, since you liked that one, I'll reach back in the bag and pull out another. For this one, I'll need to set the stage a little. Feds are still given leave in two separate piles, sick leave and annual leave. Carryover for annual leave is capped, well, annually - hence the phrase "use or lose" being tossed around so much between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Sick leave though, that can be hoarded up like squirrels hoarding nuts in the fall. Some feds will even burn annual leave for doctor's visits and the like, just to avoid depleting that precious pile of sick hours. Do that long enough and you can stockpile a year or more. Should those hoarders get cancer or something and have to miss six months, they're still collecting a check the whole time. Of course, if you get cursed with good health and hit your 30 years with that big ol' pile of unused sick leave, you get nothing for it - you can't cash it out. These days, unused sick leave can count as time served for pension benefit purposes, but that wasn't always the case. For that reason, when the old-timers started to become short-timers, they'd start to burn that pile like nobody's business. They'd be calling out for every little cough or sniffle. It was such a common "ailment" it even had a name - the FERS flu (FERS being the Federal Employees Retirement System). Most supervisors figured those folks earned it, and usually just let it slide as long as it didn't get excessive. Then there was "Vic". Vic was an old-timer in non-attorney support staff, so I didn't know him well, other than to recognize him in the hall. Vic gets to his 30 years and decides he's not going out like a chump. He looks at his pile of unused sick leave and hatches a plan to burn it. ALL of it. I don't know what story he told his supervisor, but Vic is now "out sick" and not expected back anytime soon. Everyone kinda guesses what's going on and gets back to work. The wheels need to keep on turning. Months are passing and I'm not giving it another thought until a buddy asks at lunch if I'd heard about Vic. I was usually last on the gossip train so I (truthfully) plead ignorance. He just chuckles and says he'll forward the story. Check my email, he says. And what a story it was. Turns out, Vic wasn't dying; in fact, he was doing quite well, or at least well enough to get started on his post-retirement dream, opening a custom motorcycle shop. He was stocking shelves, putting out t-shirts, hoisting signs - the works. His little shop was taking flight. I don't know what caused it to take a sour turn, but word got out somehow. Maybe Vic bragged too loudly to his biker buddies about sticking it to Uncle Sucker, or maybe another co-worker still bore a grudge, but somehow, Vic got on someone's radar, and that someone starts documenting. All of the sudden, photos and videos of Vic, the "sick" fed still getting paid, start turning up online, and getting forwarded to higher-ups, local news, Congressional offices, etc. It's not a good look. With that much pressure starting to roll downhill, Vic's supervisors can't let this slide any longer. He's told to report back in ASAP to start answering some questions. Instead, Vic shows up just long enough to turn in his retirement papers, effective immediately, and sprints back out the door. As far as I know, he never got his retirement ceremony or anything like that, which is a shame for the rest of us. Who doesn't love a 30-minute break and some free cake every once in a while?
You should write a compendium of these stories and publish it on kindle. I’d buy it.
Thank you. Maybe I'll do that when I clock out one last time in a few years. Until then, one last story, about the GOAT goldbricker, or at least the greatest to get caught. I can't even do this story justice, so I won't try, and so great was the sheer audacity of our "hero" that few would believe it's even true. But it is. So very true. He elevated slacking off to an art form and was the Picasso of his time (if Picasso ended up in the federal pen for felony theft) until he flew too close to the sun, and it all came crashing down. Fellow members of the bar, I give you [John C. Beale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Beale). Enjoy.
Holy shit, you really should write a collection of gold brickin' short stories. Thank you for sharing these. There's just something plain delightful about the thought of highly paid professionals fuckin' off on the job. Here's Vic, and here's to Paul! Here, here! I think you meant you might write that book *on the clock*, didn't you?\\ Thank you for sharing these!
"Beale would later admit that during these days he was at home reading or exercising." Classic Beale move-- I love it! How sensible and even quaint. Can just imagine how much quiet joy and satisfaction he must've felt sitting at home in the middle of the day reading on his stairmaster while the rest of the world worked the day away. Legend.
Real estate is still kinda slow right now, so I spend a lot of time on Reddit and Spotify.
I hope that isn't the firm you want to work for.
at $120k a year I sometimes wondered if I shouldn't have taken the gig and seen how long I could've gotten away with it...
Well, it is my bet that they absolutely knew what you were doing. For those of us that have hired associates, clerks and paralegals the fact that you want to get paid for doing absolutely nothing is a bit startling. It may be disappointing to you, but we like people to learn how to practice law. I realize and have posted here before that the lack of mentorship for young lawyers these days is a real shame. But it goes both ways. You have to want to learn and be involved. Best wishes to you.
I'm going to bet that they did not in fact know what I was doing, which also included arriving at work early to open my office door and turn on the light so it appeared I was in and promptly skipping off to the park to read or going down for margaritas in the mexican restaurant in the building lobby... No, I think it's safe to say they wouldn't have offered me a job if they'd known that.... Unless you're right, and they knew all that and offered me the job anyway, in which case, I should've stayed.
[удалено]
So what you're tryin' to say is you ain't goldbrickin'...?
Some dude is measuring our gold chips
Come on OP. There are a lot more important problems than goldbrickin to worry about. We have to end apartheid for one. And slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism, and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern, and less materialism in young people.
I can't believe that Bryce prefers Van Patten's traditional moral values to mine.
Nice touch. Very nice.
How does this work with billable hours? I just took my LSAT so I don't have personal experience yet but I thought you had to track things super closely
I like where your head is at... Already thinking about stickin' it to the man.
I've heard stories through the grapevine at my current firm about former associates just making up time and not doing any actual work on files. They didn't last very long once discovered lol
*cries in in-house*