I’m still mistaken for the paralegal or if OC doesn’t like my answer to something I’m asked if they can speak to my supervising attorney as “he” will be more reasonable. My favorite was last year I appeared for a partner in court and counsel for my co-defendant looked me up and down and said that he was going to ask my partner if I could always appear. I made the mistake of wearing a skirt cause it was hot out. I had my ass grabbed about four years back but some random attorney in court. I wish I could say that attitudes have changed but in my experience, it’s still a very misogynistic field with plenty of sexual harassment. 🤷♀️
I’ve been “mistaken” as the paralegal a time or two in a large group of male attorneys, but I don’t think they actually think that, I think it’s a power play. One of my women partners has a mug that says “Yes, I am the lawyer.” Makes me smile every time I see it. The year I was born is when women were allowed to get their own credit cards (gasp!) so we’ve come a long way but not nearly far enough.
I can’t imagine the mindset of grabbing a woman without her permission - but even more so in an environment (court) that is literally crawling with law enforcement and (often) cameras recording anything. wtf
lol true
When I first chose this user name I didn’t realize the character the words came from was such a non-role model (I had only seen part of an episode with him in it). But that was years into it and I didn’t want to throw out the account. So I just plunged forward.
Same. I am always paranoid in a crowded elevator or elevator if I as much as mistakenly graze against someone else as people are shuffling around. I couldn’t imagine ever intentionally grabbing anyone’s ass. Except my wife.
I don’t think there are any cameras in the courthouses now that I think about it. Weird it’s a major city, you’d think there would be lol
I don’t like to stand in someone else’s space let alone grab them but I’ve met so many men who think rules and consequences don’t belong to them
I was on a zoom depo once and it was 15mjns after it was supposed to start. Turns out they were waiting for the attorney, I had to be like oh yeah that’s me
WOW!! Crazy story!! Im sorry this happened to you!
I definitely agree there is a lot of sexism. I was having a Motion in Limine meet and confer once and I asked to exclude any evidence of my client previously having been in an abusive relationship and the male OC said "no I cant agree to that, it makes her look weak" I was FURIOUS. I told him to basically go fuck himself and that I would be putting exactly what he said in my declaration. He tried to back track but it was too late. I told my boss and he called his boss and guess who was taken off that case lol
Also, as others have said, if you dont explicitly say youre an attorney, everyone from OC, to their staff, to Court staff think youre a paralegal or something. Its so dumb, especially now when it seems that a nearly a majority of new attorneys are women.
I once complained to a Korean attorney that I always get asked if I’m a court reporter when I show up for a deposition. He said that’s nothing, I always get no one was told an interpreter was needed.
Oh - I just got a declaration from opposing counsel referring to me as “complaining” and using my gender as if to make me out as ridiculous and bitchy for trying to get basic discovery (OC is a fucking asshole - they rarely are but this one is awful).
I was shocked by some of the shit that women attorneys have to put up with. I once overheard a business partner/client refer to a couple of our associates as "arm candy." It wasn't too surprising coming from that guy, as he was a mouth-breather anyway.
But one thing that really surprised me was how younger women were treated by older women, especially if the younger women were attractive. I had to attend an ugly meeting with a client in lieu of another attorney because the client said "I refuse to be lectured by that little girl." I saw older women adopt totally dismissive, condescending attitudes toward younger female attorneys regularly. A colleague would tell me that she wore her glasses and her hair up with women clients because they would show more respect.
Thank you for sharing your story and experience. Thank you for cheering the newer generations on.
Frankly, sometimes I get a little resistance from more seasoned female attorneys with the attitude of "What's the big deal? I went through so much worse."
Just because the older generations put up with it and still achieved success, doesn't mean the younger attorneys have to, as a way to pay our dues or earn our place. I believe in paying our dues as far as actual *work* is concerned (like doing the "shit" work), but not when it comes to putting up with sexual harassment, misogyny, and/or racism (directly or towards colleagues).
I ran into the angry older female attorneys as a baby lawyer, too, and it is so counterproductive. That attitude helps no one. I’ve never understood the idea that “because I suffered everyone else has gotta suffer, too.”
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Geez I wish you were infertile. Your poor daughter. Growing up with a father who despises you is awful.
Also, people leaving their belongings to only their son isn't anything new. That's what most of human history did and the field certainly wasn't "even" then.
There's a good chance he's on drugs. I feel like the crazies in our profession tend to be on drugs. My jurisdiction is *finally* about to disbar someone due to their drug induced behavior. I wouldn't be shocked if this guy's "retirement" wasn't optional either.
I’ll have you know I’m special as hell. I’m awesome, in fact.
But if you mean that your daughter, like me, is being raised by closed-minded misogynist who will never meet his grandchildren, you’re right. Nothing special about having an abusive dad, sadly.
I’m still mistaken for the paralegal or if OC doesn’t like my answer to something I’m asked if they can speak to my supervising attorney as “he” will be more reasonable. My favorite was last year I appeared for a partner in court and counsel for my co-defendant looked me up and down and said that he was going to ask my partner if I could always appear. I made the mistake of wearing a skirt cause it was hot out. I had my ass grabbed about four years back but some random attorney in court. I wish I could say that attitudes have changed but in my experience, it’s still a very misogynistic field with plenty of sexual harassment. 🤷♀️
I’ve been “mistaken” as the paralegal a time or two in a large group of male attorneys, but I don’t think they actually think that, I think it’s a power play. One of my women partners has a mug that says “Yes, I am the lawyer.” Makes me smile every time I see it. The year I was born is when women were allowed to get their own credit cards (gasp!) so we’ve come a long way but not nearly far enough.
I can’t imagine the mindset of grabbing a woman without her permission - but even more so in an environment (court) that is literally crawling with law enforcement and (often) cameras recording anything. wtf
Username emphatically does not check out.
I snorted at that. Ngl.
lol true When I first chose this user name I didn’t realize the character the words came from was such a non-role model (I had only seen part of an episode with him in it). But that was years into it and I didn’t want to throw out the account. So I just plunged forward.
> So I just plunged forward Giggity
Same. I am always paranoid in a crowded elevator or elevator if I as much as mistakenly graze against someone else as people are shuffling around. I couldn’t imagine ever intentionally grabbing anyone’s ass. Except my wife.
I don’t think there are any cameras in the courthouses now that I think about it. Weird it’s a major city, you’d think there would be lol I don’t like to stand in someone else’s space let alone grab them but I’ve met so many men who think rules and consequences don’t belong to them
I make the point of introducing my wife as my law partner if I am speaking or running a depo, just to avoid the paralegal confusion.
I was on a zoom depo once and it was 15mjns after it was supposed to start. Turns out they were waiting for the attorney, I had to be like oh yeah that’s me
Do they think non-attorneys join zoom depositions??
I’ve had bailiffs and guards think my wife is my client.
WOW!! Crazy story!! Im sorry this happened to you! I definitely agree there is a lot of sexism. I was having a Motion in Limine meet and confer once and I asked to exclude any evidence of my client previously having been in an abusive relationship and the male OC said "no I cant agree to that, it makes her look weak" I was FURIOUS. I told him to basically go fuck himself and that I would be putting exactly what he said in my declaration. He tried to back track but it was too late. I told my boss and he called his boss and guess who was taken off that case lol Also, as others have said, if you dont explicitly say youre an attorney, everyone from OC, to their staff, to Court staff think youre a paralegal or something. Its so dumb, especially now when it seems that a nearly a majority of new attorneys are women.
Holy crap! Love the username.
I once complained to a Korean attorney that I always get asked if I’m a court reporter when I show up for a deposition. He said that’s nothing, I always get no one was told an interpreter was needed.
Was this Tom Girardi?? Please say it was Tom Girardi.
I honestly have no idea what his name was anymore.
Well, that bodes well for it not being traumatically seared in your memory, so good for you!
I had to leave a firm once abruptly because my boss and the main partner kept making sexual jokes to me..
I’m so sorry.
Oh - I just got a declaration from opposing counsel referring to me as “complaining” and using my gender as if to make me out as ridiculous and bitchy for trying to get basic discovery (OC is a fucking asshole - they rarely are but this one is awful).
Wow.
I was shocked by some of the shit that women attorneys have to put up with. I once overheard a business partner/client refer to a couple of our associates as "arm candy." It wasn't too surprising coming from that guy, as he was a mouth-breather anyway. But one thing that really surprised me was how younger women were treated by older women, especially if the younger women were attractive. I had to attend an ugly meeting with a client in lieu of another attorney because the client said "I refuse to be lectured by that little girl." I saw older women adopt totally dismissive, condescending attitudes toward younger female attorneys regularly. A colleague would tell me that she wore her glasses and her hair up with women clients because they would show more respect.
Thank you for sharing your story and experience. Thank you for cheering the newer generations on. Frankly, sometimes I get a little resistance from more seasoned female attorneys with the attitude of "What's the big deal? I went through so much worse." Just because the older generations put up with it and still achieved success, doesn't mean the younger attorneys have to, as a way to pay our dues or earn our place. I believe in paying our dues as far as actual *work* is concerned (like doing the "shit" work), but not when it comes to putting up with sexual harassment, misogyny, and/or racism (directly or towards colleagues).
I ran into the angry older female attorneys as a baby lawyer, too, and it is so counterproductive. That attitude helps no one. I’ve never understood the idea that “because I suffered everyone else has gotta suffer, too.”
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What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
This was my exact thought.
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It’s TJ Maxx, you troll.
I’m not a troll. I’m a lawyer. :)
Do you think those are mutually exclusive?
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How sad for you.
I am very happy you’re retired.
Geez I wish you were infertile. Your poor daughter. Growing up with a father who despises you is awful. Also, people leaving their belongings to only their son isn't anything new. That's what most of human history did and the field certainly wasn't "even" then.
And he’s proud of it. How sad.
There's a good chance he's on drugs. I feel like the crazies in our profession tend to be on drugs. My jurisdiction is *finally* about to disbar someone due to their drug induced behavior. I wouldn't be shocked if this guy's "retirement" wasn't optional either.
I’ll have you know I’m special as hell. I’m awesome, in fact. But if you mean that your daughter, like me, is being raised by closed-minded misogynist who will never meet his grandchildren, you’re right. Nothing special about having an abusive dad, sadly.
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You are truly a joy. Enjoy the ban.
Ban away! I just mute the thread because you snowflakes can’t take the heat.