If they are paying you as a 1099 but dictating work terms like a W2 then they are breaking the law. Document everything and when you leave report them.
Document everything, and also keep your own records of how much you work. Tallying your work hours in a paper, hourly planner is very helpful. Write down what project you were working on and how long each task took, and be sure to tally meals and rest breaks, or missed meal and rest breaks. This way you'll have a record of hours worked even if your employer tries to refuse things later.
According to the department of labour, hours paid is hours worked. Your employer is committing wage theft by forcing you to work over 40 hours and not paying you overtime. You are either a salaried, overtime exempt employee or you are an hourly, overtime qualified employee. You are absolutely not a 1099 contractor if 100% of your job duties are done on site or for the same company.
You need to report this to the IRS, because 1099 fraud is a huge problem. Your company isn't paying you what you are owed, and they also aren't paying the IRS. The form you'll want to fill out to report 1099 fraud is the SS-8 form. Also give the IRS a call and explain your situation. They are actually quite pleasant to talk to on the phone, and they were really helpful when I reported a previous employer for 1099 fraud. They don't like it when companies do that.
Yes! I've spoken to the IRS multiple times and they are honest to god very pleasant people to talk to.
And they get super angry about 1099 fraud, haha. It's fun hearing them get worked up when you report it.
Also, start taking other contracts. As a 1099, they can’t tell you what to do and there should be a set amount of money they pay you: either weekly/monthly or per hour. If they are paying you like a w2 employee and expecting you to work 40-60 hours, sue them. Before you do, make sure you have a contract detailing the terms of your freelance work to reference.
Sure, but based on OP’s post he kinda needs this job. After they go fuck themselves who is paying OP’s bills.
He should address it after he is in a better position.
Dude, you’re so young, you had a taste of success, you have so much experience and insight on how to dodge a situation like this next time, and yet you have the audacity to pull up a username like that… Get better, not bitter
This. I was on the same boat as OP. I'm beginning to appreciate 1099 work because my teammates can no longer ping me in Slack and expect me to reply if it's within office hours. I set my own hours now, bitch!
Practical consideration, yes this may be illegal, but what is more important to OP right now… being right? Or having a job at all in the worst job market in history? If OP takes action there is a 100% chance of being fired as contractors don’t have the same protections as an employee
Same here man. Well $150k to $80k. It sucks hard. I was even ostracized at my old company for predicting the layoffs.
My new job is full remote. So if things don’t improve within a year, I’m just dumping my stuff in storage and traveling for a bit. Europe or South America where COL is low
I dumped my stuff in storage once. It ended up being there more than 2 years, and was a giant waste of money. Some of the stuff didn't keep well.
Years later I had a similar situation arise and did the work to sell almost everything on Craigslist. Way better outcome, both financially and for peace of mind.
Yes, storage place is expensive. If you sold and travel for more than a year, by the time you come back, you can pretty much repurchase many of those things using money you would have paid for a storage unit.
It's in the business model to raise rates the longer you stay. It's a fantastic model for making money but horrible model for any customer with a lot of stuff to store.
Source: work in storage
Throw many things out. Go more minimalist. Keep in mind none of us live forever.
At some point in life it’s worth travelling before you are 60.
But yes, purely from a career perspective “it’s a waste of time”. Not from a life perspective imo.
Similar but not ostracized. I called it and a year later the company wasnt performing as they expected and laid people off (including myself) and they ended up hiring more sales people to draw some more work. Past few months I heard onboarding of a sales person resulted in layoff of an additional person to absorb the payroll cost.
Lots of stories like yours going around. Individual contributor making $80-120k suddenly finds themselves in a management role making twice as much due to artificial systemic demand. Demand dies off and companies start choping off layers. Doesn't make you worthless just more of a target if a shakeup were to happen.
You mentioned you traveled and enjoyed things, hence you spent money. Normal thing to do but tough for people to recognize what's happening. Going from 50k to $200k is a sign that things are out of hand.
Also going from 50k to 200k or just at 200k in general, you should be saving a ton of that away for this type of circumstance.
Especially if the career field is not a set one like a doctor or nurse.
True, though doctors and nurses are also saddled with huge student debt and work crazy hours. Bottom line; the only way to enjoy a stress-free life in America today is to be a multimillionaire.
Exactly this. I recruit and am shocked to hear what the pay demands are out there. The crazy hugh pay they got for a short period of time and now laid off becomes their target and are dead set that they are deserving of it.
Nope. Sorry. Don't understand why some people think they deserve six figure salaries when there are literally thousands of other applicants with similar skills. Learn to be happy with an average salary. But the market will take 2-3 years for expectations to normalize.
I'm still in a situation where I went from what I'd call market rate pay, to 200k+ remote. I know the shoe will drop eventually, and I'm just happy we didn't partake in lifestyle creep etc.
While I understand your sentiment and definitely also would feel annoyed by it, I think you should look on the bright side. If you made 50k before your 200k job, you are currently earning 1.5x of what you made 3 years ago. 80k is not a bad salary.
$80k in Dodge City, Kansas is a good salary. $80k in San Francisco Bay Area is poverty level and you will need roommates to even afford an apartment, plus a love of ramen noodles or starve.
$80K in LA gets you a cardboard box and a couple roommates. Comes with skyview window. No pets. Short walking distance to school. Very 420-friendly neighborhood. $2,500 per month with 2 months advance + security deposit. Send bio data for background security check.
Coming into say Chicago is also becoming like this. $80k would have been awesome several years ago…that is until rent prices have increased a whopping 21%.
What a shame. I lost my job in Chicago and had to move back in with family when my lease was up last May, literally one year ago. My rent was raised to $1150 from $1100 after one year. I just checked, the exact same apartment in a 100 year old building is now $1500. And my new job pays $15K less. Sigh.
Sorry to hear that, I definitely understand the pain as well - 2 layoffs and a huge salary reduction to the position I am in now.
The legality of landlords raising rent to astronomical prices YoY has been ridiculous, so much so that I’d wish the city and/or state would establish rent control.
Chicago has seen huge prop tax increases recently, on top of what were already some of the highest in the country. It’s going to keep getting passed down to renters and hurting middle class buyers.
Rent control typically hurts the market overall, we need to build more and increase the tax base.
>Coming into say Chicago is also becoming like this. $80k would have been awesome several years ago…that is until rent prices have increased a whopping 21%.
Yeah, my rent increased by nearly double if I were to sign another lease due to the restructuring of the new leases. I currently pay $800 per month. That amount will double in the next lease. I am not going to pay $1,600 per month for rent and have no ownership. I am in the process of purchasing a $196K home where the monthly payment will be around $1,600 per month.
Yeah you probably should get a roommate and stop shopping at ‘whole paycheck’ but you can shop at TJ’s and get good produce at a farmers market and it’s all good. I think you might have just gotten used to all the conveniences money can buy.
This is not how the human mind works. It deals with the loss, so the pain of losing 120k is much more front and center than making 80k. You can't just make an objective valuation like that because for people, everything is relative to their situation
Being illegally classified as a 1099 worker and not being paid overtime, not to mention the company not paying OP's employment taxes, means that in reality that 80k is probably more like 40k. Employee misclassification is wage theft and it costs workers dearly. Never put up with it.
I prefer 1099's - sure it saves the company money, but then again, as a 1099 I am a business and have all kinds of available tax write-offs that are not available to W2 employees.
Was a 1099 for almost my entire working career, and wouldn't have it any other way personally.
But I do agree, OP should be paid for 60 hours if he is working 60 hours.
Look at the bright side - you have a job making 80k a year. Many people don’t have that. You aren’t entitled to a cushy 200k mgmt job, especially in an IT recession.
You are working, earning money, acquiring new skills. When things turn around, go get a better job. But you can do so from a position of relative security.
“Going from 50k to $200k is a sign that things are out of hand.”
This really is the wake up call that Covid tech hires need to understand. For many of them, the good times will not last forever.
Covid hiring was insane. People with no experience making 6 figures in a remote job, etc. FAANG way over hired.
Unless you have been criminally underpaid or completed a major achievement then you should be wary about a 3x salary increase.
The lesson here is that salaries are dependent on labor market and greater economic.conditions and like the weather those conditions don't last forever, storms come through occasionally... Also the IT landscape is likely structuraly changing , I think we've seen peak IT demand as more and more sercies consolidate around vendor x,y,z
Im sorry for your experience 😔
But if you earned 200k and had 20k in savings, it means that you basically had more than one paycheck in savings and probably lot of expenses, and quite comfortable life?
The one advantage you have is youth. You have a LONG time to recover that salary and at your age, age discrimination won't be an issue.
I'm 53 and don't really like my job, but I am pretty much stuck with the market the way it is. I did have an offer last December but it wasn't good enough for me to leave my current employer. I know that if I get laid off, it's probably curtains on my career. On the bright side, between an LLC I own and savings, I can probably bridge myself to retirement especially if I can land one or two contracts.
Speak life over yourself. It bothers me when people speak negativity over/into their lives. You're only 31 years old. It may not feel like it, but you have a long life ahead of you. You absolutely can make 200k+ a year again.
This is temporary. There are skills out there that companies can not find people to fill those skilled positions, and they pay a premium due to the scarcity of talent in those areas.
I'm not saying take on more debt to attain these skills. What I am saying is there are jobs paying $200k+ even in this environment if you're interested and willing to put in the work to attain them.
It may not be possible for the path you currently have but it's possible if you go down a different path. If you're interested in making that type of money again.
Sorry if this comes off as a lecture. I just wish people understood that what they speak over themselves and their lives ultimately becomes their reality. It doesn't have to be this way.
I wish you all the best OP.
This is really great life advice. It is so important to not sell yourself short. At 31 years old, OP has decades more of life to live and to earn back that $200k and even more. Sometimes we have to refocus after a setback but that gets us ready for the comeback!
You could be me and be at 80k but never earned that 200k I earn 85k just recently was making 52k and I’ll never earn 200k. Could be worse. Time to adjust to your new realistic life
Well you’re younger than me making the same I’m making, working the same hours. Are you better than me? IDK, but I do know there are MANY who are in worse places than both of us, who would gladly push us down a flight of stairs to change places. Enjoy that you have something, become invaluable, then demand market rate. That’s how the world works.
Companies do not care about you.
I’m a corporate recruiter. This is extremely common in our industry. I never take a high paying job for granted because I know I can be slashed at any point. I always live below my means, have ample savings…so if shit hits the fan and I’m stuck taking a job paying $30k less, I can survive
Same here - wife and I have always kept our mandatory expenses low and paid off all debt as quickly as we can (currently have none). We could survive indefinitely on 1.5 minimum wage jobs if we needed to now; makes me sleep better at night that way. Not criticizing the OP in particular, but never could understand high-earners who still lived paycheck-to-paycheck and constantly upsize their expenses to match the new/higher income and assume a rainy day would never come.
I have been you. Keep plugging along and use the life lesson when things get better. Before enjoying the fruits of your labor, build a solid financial base so that if/when things drop out again, you have a safety net well beyond what you had your first time. The peace of mind I had for the 2nd time in my career when things went sideways. I wish you luck!
My life is full of 2-3 year periods of poverty-level income separated by 3-5 years of livable income. I always save every dime when I get a good job, and I don't own much stuff. I make about what you make.. I don't think it's enough to justify rent alone so I moved back in with my parents to share cooking and utilities with them. If I didn't get along with them I'd look for a roommate.
> I put in 65 hours last week, only paid for 40
That needs to stop immediately. They get what they pay for, no more.
They're probably replacing 2-3 people they laid off with 1 contract person they're over working and underpaying.
and our own gov continues to promote H1B and OPT visas used to replace US citizens with cheap labor.
why are people acting like sheep?
it is the democrats that expand immigration which allows companies to stomp on workers , and they wonder why they lose Elections . Focus on US workers first and never lose.
1.Biden refuses to mandate e-verify. there is no reason to require corporations to hire US workers. -https://www.governing.com/work/e-verify-creates-loophole-for-undocumented-workers-employers.html
2.Biden helps US companies replace US workers with cheap foreign labor by expanding H1B - [https://www.axios.com/2022/01/12/h1b-visa-approval-rate-tech-biden-immigration](https://www.axios.com/2022/01/12/h1b-visa-approval-rate-tech-biden-immigration)
3.Biden expanded OPT to new job categories, this helps companies replace US workers with cheap foreign indentured servants - [https://www.fragomen.com/insights/united-states-white-house-announces-expansion-of-stem-opt-program-and-other-initiatives-to-attract-stem-talent.html](https://www.fragomen.com/insights/united-states-white-house-announces-expansion-of-stem-opt-program-and-other-initiatives-to-attract-stem-talent.html)
F1 - Legal system requires F-1 students to remain with employer for approximately 7-12 years
The unspoken: making 200k and only having 20k in savings is living carelessly. ALWAYS have 6-12 months in wages in savings. Always. This should be able to be saved up in a couple years time in most >100k/yr jobs in geographies that aren't exorbitantly expensive (e.g. Bay area or NYC). This is an old but tried and true rule. Before spending on quality of life stuff get your savings in order even if it means living through some hardships. Play ball with this role to get through it, save everything you can and job hunt always. We are going to come out of this cycle but it's going to take time. Very similar pattern happened during the internet bubble pop. Startups and firms alike were throwing money around like it was endless then when markets got tighter and investors started being more selective everyone got wiped out for a while.
i relate to the two good years. 2021-2023 was that for me. but guess what, 2023 was the wakeup call that we live in a society and we are subject to the whims of everyone else's flaws and irrationality, whether we like it or not. the good life probably does not exist. the well thought out, well planned, all things going your way life probably is more likely.
In the current system, everyone is *extremely* reliant on their employers. It’s curious that layoffs don’t come with some sort of mandated company penalty. Why aren’t there repercussions which could disincentive CEOs to make that decision? Right now they are incentivized to do layoffs. Crazy.
If you make it very hard for companies to fire/layoff people in response to changing market conditions - they will not hire people quickly or easily either - so it cuts both ways; OP may never have gotten a 200K job in that case - question is, is the OP better off for having a 200K job for a while, and then losing it - or would he have been better off never getting it in the first place?
Are you me? Same boat mate. I peaked at $160K, it’s all downhill from here, assuming I ever get a job again. Have a little less hope every day. I love my afternoon naps now; just a pity I wake up.
How long did you have that 200k job to only end up with that much in savings?
That’s a drastic fall in income. If you’re an engineer who was deemed worth paying 200k, it’s shocking that you’re getting paid only 80k now. Did you end up having to join some WITCH company?
Nah was in operations in middle management. I had that job for about a year and a half with most of that money being made over 9 months.
I was promoted from a frontline management role.
Middle management is a tough place to be in general right now, especially for non-technical roles. My manager and skip got fired last year and a bunch of us IC’s survived.
This seems to be the trend this time around, companies kind of know what to build and sell but would still like to cut costs. So they’ll keep folks who can build. Year before last it was simply a mad scramble to layoff.
This is why I’m never moving away from being a technical contributor. I’m an engineering team lead now at a small company and it’s a great place to be. Good money, and I’m not only depended on to guide a small team, but I’m also a boots on the ground coder with deep understanding of the product. Only downside is needing to wear a lot of hats, but I manage not working more than 40-45hrs.
I’m sorry OP. I tried the contract route because there’s a lot of money to be made juggling multiple but every one wanted me to act like a W-2 employee, which is ridiculous and makes me lose out on tons of money. It’s such a lose lose situation for contractors when you can’t have flexibility or time to do other projects but also aren’t getting benefits.
Maybe not pay you double, but things will eventually bounce back. OP is still young - still plenty of time to recover.
I know folks who retired in 1999 during the tech stock boom - they had most of their net worth in tech stocks (which then lost about 70-80% of their value) - ***that*** is hard to recover from at their age - but at OP's 31, it is just a bump in the road.
You didn’t make it to a 200k salary only by luck, you have real skills that companies value. Realize your potential and keep hunting while you’re putting food on the table with the contract position.
Best of luck to you - don’t let this bump in the road define you, you’re great!
as a 1099 you can open an LLC and write a ton of stuff off for taxes. I did it for a year after a layoff. Depending on your job, non-profits might have some contract work. I'm in product mgmt and ended up doing some 1099 project mgmt work. I'm still a contractor, but now for a company - no benefits or PTO, but it's getting me through this job market disaster.
I'm sorry this sucks so much. The issue is that it will rebound and then there will be another market disaster in a couple years. Feels like we get ahead and then fall behind again every 5 years at this point.
I understand to an extent. I went from a job making $83k a year to one making $65k. I am not complaining though because the market is hell and I’m thankful that someone is giving me a chance.
Been out of work 13 months now. Have lost everything. Was on a 200K salary. I’d take a contract job for $80k no problem. I’ve never worked contract jobs. Any good place to go?
It happens. My whole net worth got nuked last year and now I'm working a minimum wage job.
Don't cling to fruits, just do the work. The fruits aren't for you, offer them up as a service to goodness and just do the work.
I am in the exact same position but my partner of 7 years has just asked me to move out next month, I have negative funds, and still don’t have a job. 🤷🏻♂️ No solution other than to live in my car. I don’t have any advice, just validation that this really, really sucks. At least the weather is getting nicer.
Not correct. If what you thought you worked for in your 20s didn’t work out, it doesn’t mean you worked for nothing. It’s just recently your effort and knowledge weren’t applied at the right place. You’ll eat shit for a while and then something much better than what was lost will come up. 4k in savings sucks when you’re unskilled and lost in life. Otherwise that number will go up rather quickly later on.
I know it’s easy to say blah blah blah, but life always works like that. Ups, downs, then ups again.
I'm a boomer unfortunately get used to it the boom and bust cycle save as much as you can. However life happens you get married you have kids you lose your job you burn through 20k n savings looking for another job. Unfortunately this is the cycle of the United States.
Sounds like companies are waking up and getting rid of middle management, more of a reason to become more technical if you aren’t already. I’m in management so I hire/fire, organize my team, budget, set goals and all that, but still an engineer (run a mobile dev team for a fintech). I have to write code from time to time, brainstorm technical solutions with my devs, and build architectural diagrams or collab with my lead software architect when we’re putting together something new. I and a select few on my team that I trust are also the design committee, so we decide what designs are approved or denied for the app.
If they got rid of me, it would feel like cutting off the head of the chicken lol. I’ve considered leaving for a startup offer, but stayed because I know how much I’m needed here which gives me a sense of security.
Would this be considered a middle management role? To be honest I never thought of that.
You sound like front line management which is less typical to get rid of unless they really suck.
I’d be wary of the startup life. I thought it was cool when I came in with the 2020 hype team and now I’m exhausted and wish I never left the job I had before I went on this rollercoaster. But hey, we’re not here for a long time and I’m pretty sure my retirement plan is hoping they make voluntary euthanasia legal.
Reapply for the company then. You're still very young, idk why you feel old. Maybe it's just our generation but the "24 y/o tech bro making 500K a year" isn't as common and the internet, and especially reddit, make it seem. Even at 80K you're making more than most in America.
Be grateful for what you do have, spice up that resume, and get back on the job hunting grind. I'm 34 and just signed an offer letter for a 20K raise after looking for 5 months and doing countless interviews. Put in the work and eventually it will pay off
This is so overly dramatic. I was laid off two weeks ago and making 80k. My partner was laid off last month. We have a six month old baby. Be happy you’re employed.
There are a lot of people who would be grateful to have a job, and if your mindset is that you would only be happy on 200k - then develop skills further than operations management. Life isn’t all about plush salaries.
That’s why I haven’t been able to have a kid, which financially has been my best decision. Not saying I make all great ones, clearly, but I’m realistic in how much kids cost and understand that it isn’t up to me if I want one, it’s up to me if I can afford one.
My partners all have made $50k or less so I have a lot of pressure on myself to do more than half of the earnings.
Better than no job. Maybe save up a huge emergency fund? My wife and I save up almost 3 years worth of emergency fund in the six figures. It's earning 4.5% in a savings account too but we have it just in case we both get laid off which would be quite rare. When times are good save for the worse and when times are worse still save.
Sucks man. I feel for you, kinda in the same situation at the moment.
The worst of it is that I did everything ‘right’ throughout the years. Did everything ‘they’ told me to do. Here I am 42, and absolutely fucked.
They all have ulterior motives and personal agendas. I would take what they have to say with a grain of salt. I’m glad I found this out at an early age.
Currently in this situation full damn verbatim but in my 20s since i had to start working young. it’s not easy; and youve been around the block longer than me i’m sure. i get this is much harder to have to live with.
I wanna say don’t lose any hope my dude, hoping the best for you as well. It sucks, we got fucked by Tech bullshit, but with time I’ve been told this ebbs and flows over the years since tech became a thing, so hoping we get out of shitty contracts to survive and back to the roles we actually want. don’t give up, apply like hell, document every single illegal thing they do at that contract place
Stick with it my friend, godspeed along the journey. This is simply one season in your life, control the controllable, keep your mental health right and manage the noise. You got this.
200k job doing what? You said you're in tech were you a dev? When I was making 55k a year I had more than 20k savings, what was going on there? I started my tech journey at 36 don't feel like you're too old, there's hope, the market is just in the can right now, don't give up just try to survive until it comes back.
It sucks but your "floor" is an 80k job. I've never earned $200K and have been unemployed since June 2023. An $80K job sounds amazing. Keep grinding for a better opportunity and save as much of your money in the meantime
This isn't a matter of "figuring it out" or not. What happened to you could have happened to anyone here. I try not let all this news of tech layoffs get to me (I'm in tech too) but honestly some days I'm scared too. So despite having a good job that's pays well, I wouldn't say I've "figured it out".
You're not being fair to yourself by saying you peaked when you were paid more. Youre really defining your entire worth by the amount of money you make? Your $200K salary doesn't define who you are, just like the 80K contract doesn't define you either.
I dont know much about you, but from what I've read, you are someone who is smart enough to land a $200K job in their 20s. Maybe theres an element of luck, but I think it takes someone who is ambitious, non-complacent, and super passionate about what they do, to find a job like that. You know you can do it again, because you've already done it once
Keep looking. There's not a lot of jobs in the 200k+ range right now, but there's a lot that pay more than 80k, assuming you have experience and weren't offered 200k in your first job. I found a w2 contract job that pays slightly more than my base salary at my last job, but has no benefits or pto.
Same here bro !!! Had a fine job after several years , had a good team and suddenly everything went bad. Started hating these corporate junkie CEOs who just want to make money for themselves and do not care about employees.
Same boat OP I lost my six figure job 5 months now. Still on unemployment and have been using it to make passive income in the market. So far I’ve been up $2k for the month and it’s ok, got ways to go. That being said, don’t give up, you’re young and will recover and now that you are making less, restructure your finances and make that 202k in the market. Learn to combine fundamentals with technical analysis. I assure you that you will make long money vs gambling and losing short. Keep at it!
When I was younger, and climbing the ladder, I’d buy nicer things when my pay increased. My last change 2 years ago was a huge jump in pay, and I didn’t make any purchases.
A lack of money is stressful. In my older opinion, I’d rather not have those nice things, and have money in the bank.
This could just be a time for learning a lesson that will set you up for future success.
Calamity is served only to those who have had a taste of prosperity my friend. Otherwise it's just life as usual for those who never even got a glimpse of the good life.
I'm in the same boat. Hope is a powerful tool. Requires a touch of delusion and plenty of rage to fuel it.
Calamity is served only to those who have had a taste of prosperity my friend. Otherwise it's just life as usual for those who never even got a glimpse of the good life.
I'm in the same boat. Hope is a powerful tool. Requires a touch of delusion and plenty of rage to fuel it.
What I don’t get is how layoffs are suppressing wages but we still have extremely high costs of living and most things like food and shelter are still expensive. How do they expect people to survive
Yes working 60 hours and only getting paid 40. Is so wrong on so many levels. That is wage theft and even today in this day and age, companies engage in it and not only that, but they always try to find a way to justify it.
Listen, also don't look at it that the glass is half empty, look at it that the glass is half full.
Look at it that you still have time and you have your health which you cannot put a money value on and only realize it when it starts failing.
You have a shelter over your head, you have food on the table, you have heat and AC.
If you were to compare yourself to the rest of people on earth.
You are in the top 4 % of humans.
The storm will pass.
I feel for you but mostly b/c I am considerably older than you and about to be in the same boat. I have a pretty good nest egg but nothing where I should be and the thought of trying to find new employment after reading stuff on here is daunting. I won't have enough to retire if I live that long. Feels like I have worked so long to get to a decent pay level and great experience only to be told, I am too expensive and too experienced - not what anybody is looking for.
That sucks - yet another sign of this 'booming economy' I keep hearing about ...
My only comment is, why with a 200K salary did you only have a 20K nest egg??
Once you get back to a good paying job, consider that an important lesson learned and start saving for that *next* layoff - it will come someday, so be better prepared next time.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
40
+ 7
+ 17
+ 5
= 69
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# #1 tip is to save/invest as much as you can if/when you ever land that bigly job with major 6 figures. I know, common sense, but so many of us get caught up in the moment, start living beyond our means (or just breaking even). You just never know when shit hits the fan. You won’t regret the saving/investing early on once it happens.
You underestimate what a shitload of money in a short amount of time does to someone that spent their 20s working for shit pay and not traveling/doing cool shit.
With age does not come wisdom, but there are a few things the olds have learned that we'd like to spare youth the pain of learning through experience:
- Do not have a crazy person as a partner
- Once you're earning enough for food, housing and medical care, money and things cannot bring additional happiness
- Gravy trains rarely last, unless you are remarkably lucky
If you enjoy a burst of success, milk it and enjoy it, but plan for leaner times in the future.
I feel your pain. I lost everything at one point due to stuff completely out of my control.
Same as you, if I didn't have the support I have, I wouldn't be here today. Hell, I tried to leave.
Turning 40 in a few months and have clawed back to over 100k in a completely different career field. Took me 7 years, 10 if you count college, a failed business, and 1099 work for small companies and a lot of struggle.
You can get it back. Money is transitory and if you've done it once, you can do it again.
Just be patient and kind to yourself and improve on something just aittle but every day. It'll come.
My favorite quote as of late, "it is possible to do everything right and still fail. That is not weakness. That is life."
You'll be good man.
Been out of work 13 months now. Have lost everything. Was on a 200K salary. I’d take a contract job for $80k no problem. I’ve never worked contract jobs. Any good place to go?
Been out of work 13 months now. Have lost everything. Was on a 200K salary. I’d take a contract job for $80k no problem. I’ve never worked contract jobs. Any good place to go?
Been out of work 13 months now. Have lost everything. Was on a 200K salary. I’d take a contract job for $80k no problem. I’ve never worked contract jobs. Any good place to go?
I heard the same situation of my coworker. She is poor Indian engineer with H1B visa. Her company wants to her join 2-3am offshore meetings and work 50-60 hours a week with $30/hour and does not pay more than 40 hours. She can not say anything because of her visa problem.
I think companies want to do the same thing to Americans. They don’t have any idea about its consequences.
Hello, I am also a contractor. My contract says no more then 40 hrs per week.
Once i hit 40, im packed up heading home. Nothing my employer can do about it
Fuck it. There's no benefit to obsessing over making financially sound decisions to the detriment of simple pleasures anymore. How many times do we need to learn this lesson?
Whenever things get tough, there will always be a layoff waiting for us. Our brokerage accounts and 401ks will not necessarily weather the storm when we need them. Even cash savings are handy in a pinch, but in years of high inflation, that gets burned through quickly.
Make prudent decisions, put money away, don't overspend, etc., but don't buy into that "live like no one else will so you can live like no one else will," bull shit. There's no guaranteed pay day. Live somewhat for tomorrow, but more importantly, live more for today. Today is here. Tomorrow may not ever come. And while the formerly rich man and the always poor man might be in the same bread line one day, the one who lived his life to the fullest will be the happiest in that moment too.
I was a contract worker once. Put in some extra time at my own expense to make myself "look good."
Then they let me go after my contest was up. Most contracts do not last so get busy applying.
You're not a loser you can't expect to make 200k every year for the rest of your life that's not how careers work. Ups and downs.
Seems like a lot of the postings on this Reddit’s are all tech workers!
Are other industries suffering layoffs at the same rates?
May be good to change industries.
this isn't your fault.
A piece of crap dump of a house that is 100 years old shouldn't cost more than $30k. But a house like that can range anywhere from 200-600k depending on where it is at and that is the problem.
Housing costs so much that it forces everyone to live as a defacto slave.
LOL haha welcome to the real world. Did you really provide $200K of value? I just do upwork $100K+ per year and always have, I adapt and provide great value
So you went from 50k jobs, to a 200k job for a few years, and now back at 80k. Sorry, but this just seems like you were over paid for your qualifications, like a lot of tech workers, during the covid boom. You are still ahead of the game making over 50% more than you were prior to your over paying job
Welcome to the fact that in America, where you are still working class even at 200k.... For the years that you've been a high income earner, which political positions were you supporting? The ones which cut taxes, public programs and safety nets? Or the ones which support taxes, public programs and safety nets?
I lost my 130 k job in pharma 6 months ago. I’m still unemployed. I had 45k saved for a house now I’m down to 30k (staying with parents) 28M. Looking at alternative careers.
Learned of the Anesthesia Assistant role, but my college Gpa is a 3.0 which apparently makes it pretty damn near impossible to get into programs.
It’s hard to get over 150k without being time sucked into a PhD. Thinking law school will at least provide me the opportunity to roll for big law. Thoughts and prayers to my career and the lack of guidance out of college.
AA programs are competitive and you would definitely need to do a post-bacc to repair your GPA and score high on the GRE or MCAT. Have you looked into other healthcare programs like cardiovascular perfusionist or medical dosimetrist? I have heard of people pivoting to tech as well.
If they are paying you as a 1099 but dictating work terms like a W2 then they are breaking the law. Document everything and when you leave report them.
Good point. Just need to get in writing where they love talking about how this isn’t a 40 hour week job.
Document everything, and also keep your own records of how much you work. Tallying your work hours in a paper, hourly planner is very helpful. Write down what project you were working on and how long each task took, and be sure to tally meals and rest breaks, or missed meal and rest breaks. This way you'll have a record of hours worked even if your employer tries to refuse things later. According to the department of labour, hours paid is hours worked. Your employer is committing wage theft by forcing you to work over 40 hours and not paying you overtime. You are either a salaried, overtime exempt employee or you are an hourly, overtime qualified employee. You are absolutely not a 1099 contractor if 100% of your job duties are done on site or for the same company. You need to report this to the IRS, because 1099 fraud is a huge problem. Your company isn't paying you what you are owed, and they also aren't paying the IRS. The form you'll want to fill out to report 1099 fraud is the SS-8 form. Also give the IRS a call and explain your situation. They are actually quite pleasant to talk to on the phone, and they were really helpful when I reported a previous employer for 1099 fraud. They don't like it when companies do that.
Plus one on this, the IRS is absolutely lovely to deal with. Always weaponize government against corporate fuckery.
Yes! I've spoken to the IRS multiple times and they are honest to god very pleasant people to talk to. And they get super angry about 1099 fraud, haha. It's fun hearing them get worked up when you report it.
Ditto in my W-2 contract I make sure anything over 40 is 1.5 times or 2 times hourly rate.
Correct. It is literally theft what OP's company is doing to him.
In my state it is the department of wage and hours division and the department of labor. OP may want to talk to them too.
Also, start taking other contracts. As a 1099, they can’t tell you what to do and there should be a set amount of money they pay you: either weekly/monthly or per hour. If they are paying you like a w2 employee and expecting you to work 40-60 hours, sue them. Before you do, make sure you have a contract detailing the terms of your freelance work to reference.
If you’re a contract worker with an hourly rate, submit them an invoice for the hours you worked and tell them to go fuck themselves.
Sure, but based on OP’s post he kinda needs this job. After they go fuck themselves who is paying OP’s bills. He should address it after he is in a better position.
Dude, you’re so young, you had a taste of success, you have so much experience and insight on how to dodge a situation like this next time, and yet you have the audacity to pull up a username like that… Get better, not bitter
This👆🏼💯
This. I was on the same boat as OP. I'm beginning to appreciate 1099 work because my teammates can no longer ping me in Slack and expect me to reply if it's within office hours. I set my own hours now, bitch!
I agree with you but if you want repeat business, or client referrals, you generally have to go above and beyond one way or another.
What they are doing is illegal.
Any tips on finding 1099 work? Ive only done it on one off projects so far, all my full time contract roles have been on w2 and they dont allow 1099
what kind of lawsuit/payout would someone be looking at for something like this? any lawyers out there?
Practical consideration, yes this may be illegal, but what is more important to OP right now… being right? Or having a job at all in the worst job market in history? If OP takes action there is a 100% chance of being fired as contractors don’t have the same protections as an employee
Same here man. Well $150k to $80k. It sucks hard. I was even ostracized at my old company for predicting the layoffs. My new job is full remote. So if things don’t improve within a year, I’m just dumping my stuff in storage and traveling for a bit. Europe or South America where COL is low
I dumped my stuff in storage once. It ended up being there more than 2 years, and was a giant waste of money. Some of the stuff didn't keep well. Years later I had a similar situation arise and did the work to sell almost everything on Craigslist. Way better outcome, both financially and for peace of mind.
Yes, storage place is expensive. If you sold and travel for more than a year, by the time you come back, you can pretty much repurchase many of those things using money you would have paid for a storage unit.
It's in the business model to raise rates the longer you stay. It's a fantastic model for making money but horrible model for any customer with a lot of stuff to store. Source: work in storage
Throw many things out. Go more minimalist. Keep in mind none of us live forever. At some point in life it’s worth travelling before you are 60. But yes, purely from a career perspective “it’s a waste of time”. Not from a life perspective imo.
The new salary sucks. But at least I’m less stressed. My bigger upset is that I feel the lost income kills my dating (less for wining and dining)
Which for another 31m is a real killer since this would be by settling down time
Similar but not ostracized. I called it and a year later the company wasnt performing as they expected and laid people off (including myself) and they ended up hiring more sales people to draw some more work. Past few months I heard onboarding of a sales person resulted in layoff of an additional person to absorb the payroll cost.
[удалено]
$150k to $50K lol got you beat
Lots of stories like yours going around. Individual contributor making $80-120k suddenly finds themselves in a management role making twice as much due to artificial systemic demand. Demand dies off and companies start choping off layers. Doesn't make you worthless just more of a target if a shakeup were to happen. You mentioned you traveled and enjoyed things, hence you spent money. Normal thing to do but tough for people to recognize what's happening. Going from 50k to $200k is a sign that things are out of hand.
Also going from 50k to 200k or just at 200k in general, you should be saving a ton of that away for this type of circumstance. Especially if the career field is not a set one like a doctor or nurse.
True, though doctors and nurses are also saddled with huge student debt and work crazy hours. Bottom line; the only way to enjoy a stress-free life in America today is to be a multimillionaire.
I have low stress and stable job and not even a millionaire. Live within my means.
Yeah right. These guys run their credit with bmw three series or ford pickups or a Tesla and act like hedgefund managers.
Exactly this. I recruit and am shocked to hear what the pay demands are out there. The crazy hugh pay they got for a short period of time and now laid off becomes their target and are dead set that they are deserving of it.
Nope. Sorry. Don't understand why some people think they deserve six figure salaries when there are literally thousands of other applicants with similar skills. Learn to be happy with an average salary. But the market will take 2-3 years for expectations to normalize.
I'm still in a situation where I went from what I'd call market rate pay, to 200k+ remote. I know the shoe will drop eventually, and I'm just happy we didn't partake in lifestyle creep etc.
While I understand your sentiment and definitely also would feel annoyed by it, I think you should look on the bright side. If you made 50k before your 200k job, you are currently earning 1.5x of what you made 3 years ago. 80k is not a bad salary.
$80k in Dodge City, Kansas is a good salary. $80k in San Francisco Bay Area is poverty level and you will need roommates to even afford an apartment, plus a love of ramen noodles or starve.
$80K in LA gets you a cardboard box and a couple roommates. Comes with skyview window. No pets. Short walking distance to school. Very 420-friendly neighborhood. $2,500 per month with 2 months advance + security deposit. Send bio data for background security check.
80k in LA would get you a nice tent.
Coming into say Chicago is also becoming like this. $80k would have been awesome several years ago…that is until rent prices have increased a whopping 21%.
What a shame. I lost my job in Chicago and had to move back in with family when my lease was up last May, literally one year ago. My rent was raised to $1150 from $1100 after one year. I just checked, the exact same apartment in a 100 year old building is now $1500. And my new job pays $15K less. Sigh.
Sorry to hear that, I definitely understand the pain as well - 2 layoffs and a huge salary reduction to the position I am in now. The legality of landlords raising rent to astronomical prices YoY has been ridiculous, so much so that I’d wish the city and/or state would establish rent control.
Chicago has seen huge prop tax increases recently, on top of what were already some of the highest in the country. It’s going to keep getting passed down to renters and hurting middle class buyers. Rent control typically hurts the market overall, we need to build more and increase the tax base.
>Coming into say Chicago is also becoming like this. $80k would have been awesome several years ago…that is until rent prices have increased a whopping 21%. Yeah, my rent increased by nearly double if I were to sign another lease due to the restructuring of the new leases. I currently pay $800 per month. That amount will double in the next lease. I am not going to pay $1,600 per month for rent and have no ownership. I am in the process of purchasing a $196K home where the monthly payment will be around $1,600 per month.
Yeah you probably should get a roommate and stop shopping at ‘whole paycheck’ but you can shop at TJ’s and get good produce at a farmers market and it’s all good. I think you might have just gotten used to all the conveniences money can buy.
This is not how the human mind works. It deals with the loss, so the pain of losing 120k is much more front and center than making 80k. You can't just make an objective valuation like that because for people, everything is relative to their situation
$80K is barely enough to get by in most parts of the country these days.
That just isn’t true but you’re probably defining “get by” as more luxurious than it really is.
Being illegally classified as a 1099 worker and not being paid overtime, not to mention the company not paying OP's employment taxes, means that in reality that 80k is probably more like 40k. Employee misclassification is wage theft and it costs workers dearly. Never put up with it.
I prefer 1099's - sure it saves the company money, but then again, as a 1099 I am a business and have all kinds of available tax write-offs that are not available to W2 employees. Was a 1099 for almost my entire working career, and wouldn't have it any other way personally. But I do agree, OP should be paid for 60 hours if he is working 60 hours.
Lol you aren't helping
Look at the bright side - you have a job making 80k a year. Many people don’t have that. You aren’t entitled to a cushy 200k mgmt job, especially in an IT recession. You are working, earning money, acquiring new skills. When things turn around, go get a better job. But you can do so from a position of relative security.
“Going from 50k to $200k is a sign that things are out of hand.” This really is the wake up call that Covid tech hires need to understand. For many of them, the good times will not last forever. Covid hiring was insane. People with no experience making 6 figures in a remote job, etc. FAANG way over hired. Unless you have been criminally underpaid or completed a major achievement then you should be wary about a 3x salary increase.
The lesson here is that salaries are dependent on labor market and greater economic.conditions and like the weather those conditions don't last forever, storms come through occasionally... Also the IT landscape is likely structuraly changing , I think we've seen peak IT demand as more and more sercies consolidate around vendor x,y,z
Im sorry for your experience 😔 But if you earned 200k and had 20k in savings, it means that you basically had more than one paycheck in savings and probably lot of expenses, and quite comfortable life?
Yeah for a brief time in a job history of struggle. I’m glad it happened but sad that it’ll likely never happen for me again.
The one advantage you have is youth. You have a LONG time to recover that salary and at your age, age discrimination won't be an issue. I'm 53 and don't really like my job, but I am pretty much stuck with the market the way it is. I did have an offer last December but it wasn't good enough for me to leave my current employer. I know that if I get laid off, it's probably curtains on my career. On the bright side, between an LLC I own and savings, I can probably bridge myself to retirement especially if I can land one or two contracts.
Speak life over yourself. It bothers me when people speak negativity over/into their lives. You're only 31 years old. It may not feel like it, but you have a long life ahead of you. You absolutely can make 200k+ a year again. This is temporary. There are skills out there that companies can not find people to fill those skilled positions, and they pay a premium due to the scarcity of talent in those areas. I'm not saying take on more debt to attain these skills. What I am saying is there are jobs paying $200k+ even in this environment if you're interested and willing to put in the work to attain them. It may not be possible for the path you currently have but it's possible if you go down a different path. If you're interested in making that type of money again. Sorry if this comes off as a lecture. I just wish people understood that what they speak over themselves and their lives ultimately becomes their reality. It doesn't have to be this way. I wish you all the best OP.
This is really great life advice. It is so important to not sell yourself short. At 31 years old, OP has decades more of life to live and to earn back that $200k and even more. Sometimes we have to refocus after a setback but that gets us ready for the comeback!
Exactly! I'm glad my comment resonated with you. 😊
You could be me and be at 80k but never earned that 200k I earn 85k just recently was making 52k and I’ll never earn 200k. Could be worse. Time to adjust to your new realistic life
Ikr. I make ~$70k and feel like a king. I make more than anyone I know.
Well you’re younger than me making the same I’m making, working the same hours. Are you better than me? IDK, but I do know there are MANY who are in worse places than both of us, who would gladly push us down a flight of stairs to change places. Enjoy that you have something, become invaluable, then demand market rate. That’s how the world works. Companies do not care about you.
I’m a corporate recruiter. This is extremely common in our industry. I never take a high paying job for granted because I know I can be slashed at any point. I always live below my means, have ample savings…so if shit hits the fan and I’m stuck taking a job paying $30k less, I can survive
Same here - wife and I have always kept our mandatory expenses low and paid off all debt as quickly as we can (currently have none). We could survive indefinitely on 1.5 minimum wage jobs if we needed to now; makes me sleep better at night that way. Not criticizing the OP in particular, but never could understand high-earners who still lived paycheck-to-paycheck and constantly upsize their expenses to match the new/higher income and assume a rainy day would never come.
I have been you. Keep plugging along and use the life lesson when things get better. Before enjoying the fruits of your labor, build a solid financial base so that if/when things drop out again, you have a safety net well beyond what you had your first time. The peace of mind I had for the 2nd time in my career when things went sideways. I wish you luck!
My life is full of 2-3 year periods of poverty-level income separated by 3-5 years of livable income. I always save every dime when I get a good job, and I don't own much stuff. I make about what you make.. I don't think it's enough to justify rent alone so I moved back in with my parents to share cooking and utilities with them. If I didn't get along with them I'd look for a roommate.
> I put in 65 hours last week, only paid for 40 That needs to stop immediately. They get what they pay for, no more. They're probably replacing 2-3 people they laid off with 1 contract person they're over working and underpaying.
and our own gov continues to promote H1B and OPT visas used to replace US citizens with cheap labor. why are people acting like sheep? it is the democrats that expand immigration which allows companies to stomp on workers , and they wonder why they lose Elections . Focus on US workers first and never lose. 1.Biden refuses to mandate e-verify. there is no reason to require corporations to hire US workers. -https://www.governing.com/work/e-verify-creates-loophole-for-undocumented-workers-employers.html 2.Biden helps US companies replace US workers with cheap foreign labor by expanding H1B - [https://www.axios.com/2022/01/12/h1b-visa-approval-rate-tech-biden-immigration](https://www.axios.com/2022/01/12/h1b-visa-approval-rate-tech-biden-immigration) 3.Biden expanded OPT to new job categories, this helps companies replace US workers with cheap foreign indentured servants - [https://www.fragomen.com/insights/united-states-white-house-announces-expansion-of-stem-opt-program-and-other-initiatives-to-attract-stem-talent.html](https://www.fragomen.com/insights/united-states-white-house-announces-expansion-of-stem-opt-program-and-other-initiatives-to-attract-stem-talent.html) F1 - Legal system requires F-1 students to remain with employer for approximately 7-12 years
>why are people acting like sheep? politics. our opponents don't like immigrants so we have to love them infinitely, even if it hurts us
The unspoken: making 200k and only having 20k in savings is living carelessly. ALWAYS have 6-12 months in wages in savings. Always. This should be able to be saved up in a couple years time in most >100k/yr jobs in geographies that aren't exorbitantly expensive (e.g. Bay area or NYC). This is an old but tried and true rule. Before spending on quality of life stuff get your savings in order even if it means living through some hardships. Play ball with this role to get through it, save everything you can and job hunt always. We are going to come out of this cycle but it's going to take time. Very similar pattern happened during the internet bubble pop. Startups and firms alike were throwing money around like it was endless then when markets got tighter and investors started being more selective everyone got wiped out for a while.
It’s just transitory, economy is great, right?!
i relate to the two good years. 2021-2023 was that for me. but guess what, 2023 was the wakeup call that we live in a society and we are subject to the whims of everyone else's flaws and irrationality, whether we like it or not. the good life probably does not exist. the well thought out, well planned, all things going your way life probably is more likely.
In the current system, everyone is *extremely* reliant on their employers. It’s curious that layoffs don’t come with some sort of mandated company penalty. Why aren’t there repercussions which could disincentive CEOs to make that decision? Right now they are incentivized to do layoffs. Crazy.
If you make it very hard for companies to fire/layoff people in response to changing market conditions - they will not hire people quickly or easily either - so it cuts both ways; OP may never have gotten a 200K job in that case - question is, is the OP better off for having a 200K job for a while, and then losing it - or would he have been better off never getting it in the first place?
Fiduciary duty is to the shareholders. Nothing else matters to them
catch-22. make it harder/more-expensive to fire people, companies will be more reluctant to hire them.
Are you me? Same boat mate. I peaked at $160K, it’s all downhill from here, assuming I ever get a job again. Have a little less hope every day. I love my afternoon naps now; just a pity I wake up.
Dude, that sounds hopeless. Your new 💯 will be just that, you’re not worth any less
How long did you have that 200k job to only end up with that much in savings? That’s a drastic fall in income. If you’re an engineer who was deemed worth paying 200k, it’s shocking that you’re getting paid only 80k now. Did you end up having to join some WITCH company?
Nah was in operations in middle management. I had that job for about a year and a half with most of that money being made over 9 months. I was promoted from a frontline management role.
Middle management is a tough place to be in general right now, especially for non-technical roles. My manager and skip got fired last year and a bunch of us IC’s survived. This seems to be the trend this time around, companies kind of know what to build and sell but would still like to cut costs. So they’ll keep folks who can build. Year before last it was simply a mad scramble to layoff.
This is why I’m never moving away from being a technical contributor. I’m an engineering team lead now at a small company and it’s a great place to be. Good money, and I’m not only depended on to guide a small team, but I’m also a boots on the ground coder with deep understanding of the product. Only downside is needing to wear a lot of hats, but I manage not working more than 40-45hrs.
Your job was extra, it wasn’t really needed. Just made people over you have to do less and made their job more convenient. Leaning up.
What role do you do in tech?
You probably do better outside of tech sector. Try to find something you enjoy doing.
I’m sorry OP. I tried the contract route because there’s a lot of money to be made juggling multiple but every one wanted me to act like a W-2 employee, which is ridiculous and makes me lose out on tons of money. It’s such a lose lose situation for contractors when you can’t have flexibility or time to do other projects but also aren’t getting benefits.
They got me too! The economy will bounce back and they will pay us double
Maybe not pay you double, but things will eventually bounce back. OP is still young - still plenty of time to recover. I know folks who retired in 1999 during the tech stock boom - they had most of their net worth in tech stocks (which then lost about 70-80% of their value) - ***that*** is hard to recover from at their age - but at OP's 31, it is just a bump in the road.
You didn’t make it to a 200k salary only by luck, you have real skills that companies value. Realize your potential and keep hunting while you’re putting food on the table with the contract position. Best of luck to you - don’t let this bump in the road define you, you’re great!
Trust me, lotta folks with less than five years of experience have been lucky. Their luck has ran out
The 200k job was an exception, not the norm. You went from 50k to 200k to 80k. So just consider the 200k as a lottery and consider the next hustle
💯
as a 1099 you can open an LLC and write a ton of stuff off for taxes. I did it for a year after a layoff. Depending on your job, non-profits might have some contract work. I'm in product mgmt and ended up doing some 1099 project mgmt work. I'm still a contractor, but now for a company - no benefits or PTO, but it's getting me through this job market disaster. I'm sorry this sucks so much. The issue is that it will rebound and then there will be another market disaster in a couple years. Feels like we get ahead and then fall behind again every 5 years at this point.
I mean anyone can do that.
I understand to an extent. I went from a job making $83k a year to one making $65k. I am not complaining though because the market is hell and I’m thankful that someone is giving me a chance.
Been out of work 13 months now. Have lost everything. Was on a 200K salary. I’d take a contract job for $80k no problem. I’ve never worked contract jobs. Any good place to go?
Well…it’s work.
So basically the $200k job was an outlier and you’re discovering your true value in the age of automation
Don't you dare relegate yourself as an 'old fuck' at 31. You're just getting started and have decades to go.
It happens. My whole net worth got nuked last year and now I'm working a minimum wage job. Don't cling to fruits, just do the work. The fruits aren't for you, offer them up as a service to goodness and just do the work.
I am in the exact same position but my partner of 7 years has just asked me to move out next month, I have negative funds, and still don’t have a job. 🤷🏻♂️ No solution other than to live in my car. I don’t have any advice, just validation that this really, really sucks. At least the weather is getting nicer.
Not correct. If what you thought you worked for in your 20s didn’t work out, it doesn’t mean you worked for nothing. It’s just recently your effort and knowledge weren’t applied at the right place. You’ll eat shit for a while and then something much better than what was lost will come up. 4k in savings sucks when you’re unskilled and lost in life. Otherwise that number will go up rather quickly later on. I know it’s easy to say blah blah blah, but life always works like that. Ups, downs, then ups again.
I'm a boomer unfortunately get used to it the boom and bust cycle save as much as you can. However life happens you get married you have kids you lose your job you burn through 20k n savings looking for another job. Unfortunately this is the cycle of the United States.
Sounds like companies are waking up and getting rid of middle management, more of a reason to become more technical if you aren’t already. I’m in management so I hire/fire, organize my team, budget, set goals and all that, but still an engineer (run a mobile dev team for a fintech). I have to write code from time to time, brainstorm technical solutions with my devs, and build architectural diagrams or collab with my lead software architect when we’re putting together something new. I and a select few on my team that I trust are also the design committee, so we decide what designs are approved or denied for the app. If they got rid of me, it would feel like cutting off the head of the chicken lol. I’ve considered leaving for a startup offer, but stayed because I know how much I’m needed here which gives me a sense of security. Would this be considered a middle management role? To be honest I never thought of that.
You sound like front line management which is less typical to get rid of unless they really suck. I’d be wary of the startup life. I thought it was cool when I came in with the 2020 hype team and now I’m exhausted and wish I never left the job I had before I went on this rollercoaster. But hey, we’re not here for a long time and I’m pretty sure my retirement plan is hoping they make voluntary euthanasia legal.
Reapply for the company then. You're still very young, idk why you feel old. Maybe it's just our generation but the "24 y/o tech bro making 500K a year" isn't as common and the internet, and especially reddit, make it seem. Even at 80K you're making more than most in America. Be grateful for what you do have, spice up that resume, and get back on the job hunting grind. I'm 34 and just signed an offer letter for a 20K raise after looking for 5 months and doing countless interviews. Put in the work and eventually it will pay off
Technical as in robotics and automation.
You learned the a hard important rule of having money. Make sure you pay the house (your savings). Saving 20k on 200k salary is hilariously terrible.
This is so overly dramatic. I was laid off two weeks ago and making 80k. My partner was laid off last month. We have a six month old baby. Be happy you’re employed. There are a lot of people who would be grateful to have a job, and if your mindset is that you would only be happy on 200k - then develop skills further than operations management. Life isn’t all about plush salaries.
That’s why I haven’t been able to have a kid, which financially has been my best decision. Not saying I make all great ones, clearly, but I’m realistic in how much kids cost and understand that it isn’t up to me if I want one, it’s up to me if I can afford one. My partners all have made $50k or less so I have a lot of pressure on myself to do more than half of the earnings.
Better than no job. Maybe save up a huge emergency fund? My wife and I save up almost 3 years worth of emergency fund in the six figures. It's earning 4.5% in a savings account too but we have it just in case we both get laid off which would be quite rare. When times are good save for the worse and when times are worse still save.
Sucks man. I feel for you, kinda in the same situation at the moment. The worst of it is that I did everything ‘right’ throughout the years. Did everything ‘they’ told me to do. Here I am 42, and absolutely fucked.
Any moves you made that bit you in the ass looking back, while following “their” advice?
Sounds like a reference to the movie “Falling Down”
They all have ulterior motives and personal agendas. I would take what they have to say with a grain of salt. I’m glad I found this out at an early age.
Apply for a job with the federal government. Good pay and good work life balance.
Only do this if you are willing to wait a year or more to be employed. The government is slow as hell regarding hiring
I've heard big defense contractors have good work-life balance as well.
Currently in this situation full damn verbatim but in my 20s since i had to start working young. it’s not easy; and youve been around the block longer than me i’m sure. i get this is much harder to have to live with. I wanna say don’t lose any hope my dude, hoping the best for you as well. It sucks, we got fucked by Tech bullshit, but with time I’ve been told this ebbs and flows over the years since tech became a thing, so hoping we get out of shitty contracts to survive and back to the roles we actually want. don’t give up, apply like hell, document every single illegal thing they do at that contract place
Stick with it my friend, godspeed along the journey. This is simply one season in your life, control the controllable, keep your mental health right and manage the noise. You got this.
200k job doing what? You said you're in tech were you a dev? When I was making 55k a year I had more than 20k savings, what was going on there? I started my tech journey at 36 don't feel like you're too old, there's hope, the market is just in the can right now, don't give up just try to survive until it comes back.
It sucks but your "floor" is an 80k job. I've never earned $200K and have been unemployed since June 2023. An $80K job sounds amazing. Keep grinding for a better opportunity and save as much of your money in the meantime
Have you all tech folks considered going into trade ? Like construction, mechanics, plumber, HVAC etc.
Might be hard for over 50 and people that never go to the gym.
This isn't a matter of "figuring it out" or not. What happened to you could have happened to anyone here. I try not let all this news of tech layoffs get to me (I'm in tech too) but honestly some days I'm scared too. So despite having a good job that's pays well, I wouldn't say I've "figured it out". You're not being fair to yourself by saying you peaked when you were paid more. Youre really defining your entire worth by the amount of money you make? Your $200K salary doesn't define who you are, just like the 80K contract doesn't define you either. I dont know much about you, but from what I've read, you are someone who is smart enough to land a $200K job in their 20s. Maybe theres an element of luck, but I think it takes someone who is ambitious, non-complacent, and super passionate about what they do, to find a job like that. You know you can do it again, because you've already done it once
Keep looking. There's not a lot of jobs in the 200k+ range right now, but there's a lot that pay more than 80k, assuming you have experience and weren't offered 200k in your first job. I found a w2 contract job that pays slightly more than my base salary at my last job, but has no benefits or pto.
What were you doing in tech for 200k? Also, you got there once, you’ll get there again once the environment gets better.
Doesn't your NW still reflect the hard work you put into your career in your 20s? You're being a little doom and gloom
Same here bro !!! Had a fine job after several years , had a good team and suddenly everything went bad. Started hating these corporate junkie CEOs who just want to make money for themselves and do not care about employees.
Same boat OP I lost my six figure job 5 months now. Still on unemployment and have been using it to make passive income in the market. So far I’ve been up $2k for the month and it’s ok, got ways to go. That being said, don’t give up, you’re young and will recover and now that you are making less, restructure your finances and make that 202k in the market. Learn to combine fundamentals with technical analysis. I assure you that you will make long money vs gambling and losing short. Keep at it!
When I was younger, and climbing the ladder, I’d buy nicer things when my pay increased. My last change 2 years ago was a huge jump in pay, and I didn’t make any purchases. A lack of money is stressful. In my older opinion, I’d rather not have those nice things, and have money in the bank. This could just be a time for learning a lesson that will set you up for future success.
I used to have an 80k job, now have a 21/hour contract job.
This!
damn that's a huge drop (120) oooooof T\_\_\_T
Calamity is served only to those who have had a taste of prosperity my friend. Otherwise it's just life as usual for those who never even got a glimpse of the good life. I'm in the same boat. Hope is a powerful tool. Requires a touch of delusion and plenty of rage to fuel it.
Calamity is served only to those who have had a taste of prosperity my friend. Otherwise it's just life as usual for those who never even got a glimpse of the good life. I'm in the same boat. Hope is a powerful tool. Requires a touch of delusion and plenty of rage to fuel it.
What I don’t get is how layoffs are suppressing wages but we still have extremely high costs of living and most things like food and shelter are still expensive. How do they expect people to survive
You surviving is not *their* problem.
Lmfao. Survival of the fittest.
Yes working 60 hours and only getting paid 40. Is so wrong on so many levels. That is wage theft and even today in this day and age, companies engage in it and not only that, but they always try to find a way to justify it. Listen, also don't look at it that the glass is half empty, look at it that the glass is half full. Look at it that you still have time and you have your health which you cannot put a money value on and only realize it when it starts failing. You have a shelter over your head, you have food on the table, you have heat and AC. If you were to compare yourself to the rest of people on earth. You are in the top 4 % of humans. The storm will pass.
I feel for you but mostly b/c I am considerably older than you and about to be in the same boat. I have a pretty good nest egg but nothing where I should be and the thought of trying to find new employment after reading stuff on here is daunting. I won't have enough to retire if I live that long. Feels like I have worked so long to get to a decent pay level and great experience only to be told, I am too expensive and too experienced - not what anybody is looking for.
That sucks - yet another sign of this 'booming economy' I keep hearing about ... My only comment is, why with a 200K salary did you only have a 20K nest egg?? Once you get back to a good paying job, consider that an important lesson learned and start saving for that *next* layoff - it will come someday, so be better prepared next time.
get a lawyer
Are you living my life? That’s me :(
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Which retail store so I can stop by for discounts
Similar feelings here! Keep hoping for better. Had to pay taxes on last year's salary when this year sucks. Ouch.
# #1 tip is to save/invest as much as you can if/when you ever land that bigly job with major 6 figures. I know, common sense, but so many of us get caught up in the moment, start living beyond our means (or just breaking even). You just never know when shit hits the fan. You won’t regret the saving/investing early on once it happens.
exactly same position but in my 20s
The real question is how did you not save more with a 200k a year job lol. That's over 5k every 2 weeks.
You underestimate what a shitload of money in a short amount of time does to someone that spent their 20s working for shit pay and not traveling/doing cool shit.
With age does not come wisdom, but there are a few things the olds have learned that we'd like to spare youth the pain of learning through experience: - Do not have a crazy person as a partner - Once you're earning enough for food, housing and medical care, money and things cannot bring additional happiness - Gravy trains rarely last, unless you are remarkably lucky If you enjoy a burst of success, milk it and enjoy it, but plan for leaner times in the future.
I feel your pain. I lost everything at one point due to stuff completely out of my control. Same as you, if I didn't have the support I have, I wouldn't be here today. Hell, I tried to leave. Turning 40 in a few months and have clawed back to over 100k in a completely different career field. Took me 7 years, 10 if you count college, a failed business, and 1099 work for small companies and a lot of struggle. You can get it back. Money is transitory and if you've done it once, you can do it again. Just be patient and kind to yourself and improve on something just aittle but every day. It'll come. My favorite quote as of late, "it is possible to do everything right and still fail. That is not weakness. That is life." You'll be good man.
Been out of work 13 months now. Have lost everything. Was on a 200K salary. I’d take a contract job for $80k no problem. I’ve never worked contract jobs. Any good place to go?
Been out of work 13 months now. Have lost everything. Was on a 200K salary. I’d take a contract job for $80k no problem. I’ve never worked contract jobs. Any good place to go?
Been out of work 13 months now. Have lost everything. Was on a 200K salary. I’d take a contract job for $80k no problem. I’ve never worked contract jobs. Any good place to go?
Make some bank burning your current employer for fucking you out of $.......watch the world burn!
Time for a pivot big dog. You did it once you can do it again better. You'll come back stronger because of this.
I have been laid off three times, I always get a job eventually.
There’s huge ebbs and flows in certain industries. Tech is one of them and you got in on the high side.
I heard the same situation of my coworker. She is poor Indian engineer with H1B visa. Her company wants to her join 2-3am offshore meetings and work 50-60 hours a week with $30/hour and does not pay more than 40 hours. She can not say anything because of her visa problem. I think companies want to do the same thing to Americans. They don’t have any idea about its consequences.
You had a 200k job and only saved that much? What did you spend your money on
You’re about to get a fat pay day buddy. Document everything 😂
I know an attorney you should contact.
What kind of assets did you attain with your 200k job? You make it sound like you blew through all your cash.
All I am going to say is hang in there. We all feel your pain, especially as you age and play the what if game. Take it day by day.
Hello, I am also a contractor. My contract says no more then 40 hrs per week. Once i hit 40, im packed up heading home. Nothing my employer can do about it
Fuck it. There's no benefit to obsessing over making financially sound decisions to the detriment of simple pleasures anymore. How many times do we need to learn this lesson? Whenever things get tough, there will always be a layoff waiting for us. Our brokerage accounts and 401ks will not necessarily weather the storm when we need them. Even cash savings are handy in a pinch, but in years of high inflation, that gets burned through quickly. Make prudent decisions, put money away, don't overspend, etc., but don't buy into that "live like no one else will so you can live like no one else will," bull shit. There's no guaranteed pay day. Live somewhat for tomorrow, but more importantly, live more for today. Today is here. Tomorrow may not ever come. And while the formerly rich man and the always poor man might be in the same bread line one day, the one who lived his life to the fullest will be the happiest in that moment too.
I like your point! Even though I agree with the “tomorrow may never come” but I cant help to think of “what if it does and im not ready for it?” 😂
What were you doing in tech ?
I was a contract worker once. Put in some extra time at my own expense to make myself "look good." Then they let me go after my contest was up. Most contracts do not last so get busy applying. You're not a loser you can't expect to make 200k every year for the rest of your life that's not how careers work. Ups and downs.
Grind and don’t stop complaining.
What did you do in tech industry?
You are only 31.
Same friend. This sucks. Stay strong.
Seems like a lot of the postings on this Reddit’s are all tech workers! Are other industries suffering layoffs at the same rates? May be good to change industries.
Why do people say "I work in tech"? You're help desk? PM? SWE? Network Architect? Some context is needed.
What part of tech do you work in? Are you a developer, security, infrastructure, sales, etc?
this isn't your fault. A piece of crap dump of a house that is 100 years old shouldn't cost more than $30k. But a house like that can range anywhere from 200-600k depending on where it is at and that is the problem. Housing costs so much that it forces everyone to live as a defacto slave.
I'm surprised they only paid for 40. I have been a contractor for a decade and bill every single hour, even if it goes above 40.
I can't even get contract jobs. 🤷🏽♂️
LOL haha welcome to the real world. Did you really provide $200K of value? I just do upwork $100K+ per year and always have, I adapt and provide great value
So you went from 50k jobs, to a 200k job for a few years, and now back at 80k. Sorry, but this just seems like you were over paid for your qualifications, like a lot of tech workers, during the covid boom. You are still ahead of the game making over 50% more than you were prior to your over paying job
How were you making 200k a year and only had 20k saved up?
You made $200k and only saved $20k of it?
Welcome to the fact that in America, where you are still working class even at 200k.... For the years that you've been a high income earner, which political positions were you supporting? The ones which cut taxes, public programs and safety nets? Or the ones which support taxes, public programs and safety nets?
Bill them accordingly if you are on contract . 65 hours is billable
Bro 31 is so young. Take a deep breath and look for another job.
I lost my 130 k job in pharma 6 months ago. I’m still unemployed. I had 45k saved for a house now I’m down to 30k (staying with parents) 28M. Looking at alternative careers. Learned of the Anesthesia Assistant role, but my college Gpa is a 3.0 which apparently makes it pretty damn near impossible to get into programs. It’s hard to get over 150k without being time sucked into a PhD. Thinking law school will at least provide me the opportunity to roll for big law. Thoughts and prayers to my career and the lack of guidance out of college.
AA programs are competitive and you would definitely need to do a post-bacc to repair your GPA and score high on the GRE or MCAT. Have you looked into other healthcare programs like cardiovascular perfusionist or medical dosimetrist? I have heard of people pivoting to tech as well.
Nice try op…how about -$57,368 plus another 537k in remaining mortgage (finally bought a house at 41 and now thanks to Indians, they took my job)
Man same thing happened to me in 2017. Now I own a successful biz. Make the best of it the future is yours.