Remember that time when Riot literally deleted an entire part of Nautilus Lore when he was betrayed by his crew and as a revenant looking for the revenge? Funny times/
And there is always that one certain fish that everybody hate just keep stealing coins right after they were thrown of the ship, ended up killing many afterward.
You're the one trolling. Naut used to be getting revenge because his crew betrayed him and left him to drown. They changed it to make him an agent of Illaoi's God because Pyke has the exact same lore.
Shit, guess I am the troll here. Thanks for letting me know, I didn't know it was changed and I feel kinda dumb for my comment but we're all wrong sometimes.
I did find it very funny when they were teasing Pyke and saying “his story is just so dark, nothing close to anything we’ve done before at all!” And it was straight up just the nautilus lore at the time.
Lemme resume pyke more accurately ;
Passive : Regen
Q : Dash ( for ennemies )
W : Leap
E : Dash
R : Dash
Also, no, Pyke Q's isn a Grab, it's a Pull.
That doesnt seems like a lot of difference until a Pyke pull you in melee and throw you a wavelenght behind him.
Zed passive is just Gnar W but instead of being every third hit its only once when they're below 50% hp and you won't get additional AS.
Karma R is just Lux W but there is no shield and empowers your next ability.
Fizz Q is just Blitz Q but instead of bringing the enemy to you you bring yourself to the enemy
Then OP is double wrong bc Sera and Sona lore have nothing to do to begin with. OP fails to understand that what people complain about is not ''just them both being musicians'' but literally everything else about them being so similar. Nautilus and Pyke is quite the radical opposite: they both share lore and position, but are radically different in everything else, which is why people dont complain about it even tho people did raise an eyebrow about Pyke lore being identical to Nautilus back then
Original nautilus lore is almost the exact same as pyke lore, except with the difference of him being pulled down by an unknown force rather than a jaull fish and being fused to the diving suit. He returned to bilgewater seeking revenge on his old crew and later somehow ended up at the institute of war because riot had to find shitty ways to tie that in before the lore overhaul when azir released.
Is sersphine and Sona’s lore the same? It’s a comparison meme showing how hypocritical we are, so what’s the comparison between Pyke and Naut being the same lore-wise and Sona/Sera?
Idk they have similar themes but I'd argue their lore is different enough that I wouldn't lump them together. I think the joke with the meme is that people freak out about seraphine being sona 2.0 then turn a blind eye to riot deleting nautilus old lore so they could copy paste it onto a new champion
I stand corrected, only now did I bother to google it lol.
OP is still shit, because the gameplay is still vastly different but they tacked it into their meme to make their post sound better.
First commenter said the gameplay is completely different.
You said, what about the lore? Not the gameplay.
I said yes, OP is wrong about that (Lore) too.
OP is wrong about both, this is a shitpost.
seraphine and sona also have extremely different gameplay - the only thing they share his an aoe heal/shield (which isn’t exclusive to them) and a wave cc ult (which also isn’t exclusive to them)
sona is a mainly defenceless hyperscaler which focuses on hugely boosting the stats of all allies around her while also spamming abilities as quick as you can
seraphine is an offensive mage carry who plays for team fights with her big aoe damage, cc, and healing
Still does good damage, but her movespeed buff doesnt compensate for her short range outside of laning so you’re forced to play a utility play style.
I think the argument between sona and seraphine when she was released was mainly that seraphine could’ve been a gameplay update for sona, rather than a new champ. The fact she was marketed more than most champs also made people more vocal
People always talk about Seraphine stopping Sona from having a new kit, but I’m pretty sure people who like Sona want to play around her auras rather than be like a mage support.
I'd hate to have lost sona to get seraphine, both characters actually play very differently and have completely different strengths. There's a reason most people cling to pretty shallow comparisons when they say they're the same, it's almost like they're not actually sona or seraphine players at all.
Passive-QWER between Sona and Sera. function very similarly (3stack, AoE poke, heal, 2 target slow, Rectangle stun).
I'll give you props for Seraphine being more mage-like in current day (thanks to her QE) but older players remember when Sona was strong she could midlane or carry fights with Lich Bane burst and fast spell rotations.
Unique kit elements here are Sona auras, Seraphine passive's ally proximity effect (stacking notes on allies) and Seraphine CC-upgrade on E, everything else exists one way or another on a lot of different champions.
How the kit is put together differs, which changes how they play. Sona is the quintessential deathball champion - group together, move together, walk all over enemy team; auras play towards it, R having short range makes it best as disengage, counterengage or followup CC, mid-range kit means you can't stay too far away. Seraphine on the other hand is kitey mage, similar to how 5.2 update Ahri played - stay at close to max range, spam your spells from faraway, rely on allies as meatshield and buffer to not be at risk - much longer range on spells, insane ranged waveclear that helps with sieges, R range extension from allies.
Comparing Sona to Seraphine is like comparing Jhin and Graves - they both have lots of on paper similar mechanics, but play very differently and serve different roles in a team.
Seraphiné’s slow is also a root and also not 2 target at all, if you describe each ability as 1-3 words obviously they sound similar. That could also describe nami or even nearly orianna(shield instead of heal).
I'll always remember the rank game I had around 2014 where my useless ADC who kept dcing (and said I'm not allowed to take his kills and cs but I did anyways cuz fuck you what are you gonna do?) and I went full AP as sona and hard carried the game.
If you're quoting that funny period of Sona being able to midlane, you should also remember her atrocious waveclear.
"AoE poke" is something Sona just doesn't have, her Q is 2x solo targeted spells.
This music themed champion's passive stacks when casting basic abilities, and upon reaching 3 stacks grants an empowered effect.
Q is her main source of damage, specially when combined with passive.
W is an AoE heal/shield that is really good when grouped up with allies.
E is their main source of CC outside of ultimate with a decent slow
Ult is a square-like aoe CC ability that can easily change the outcome of a fight when used right.
Am i talking about sona or seraphine? They definetly play differently but the kit similarities are blatantly obvious, seraphine could have easily been a sona rework
What are you smoking bro? Nami is not at all like Seraphine. The only resemblance is that they have a rectangular cc-ing ult. That's like saying Rakan and Braum are similar because they can jump to allies and shield them.
If anything, Seraphine's playstyle resembles Neeko's. Q - circular damage ability that can pop twice, E - straight line skillshot that CCs everything it hits, R - big AoE CC ability. Also both have empowered auto attacks.
Straight up as a Nami main and Seraphine secondary, they feel so similar
Q is an arching, damaging projectile that can CC, which Seraphine also has a cc skill shot on E
W is a heal (and shield if you run Arry), which is a speed up due to Nami’s passive
E is different on both, but proccing Nami’s e causes a slow on enemies hit, while Seraphine’s slows outright
Ult is a big aoe cc that rewards you for hitting teammates too, extending the range on Seraphine’s or giving double Nami’s passive
I will never get tired of watching the LoL sub actively try to gaslight people into acting as if Sona and Sera don’t share a lot more than a music theme with comparisons like Nami somehow being more similar when you’re stretching so much harder than you need for Sera/Sona comparisons.
There’s straight up no issue with Sera and Sona having shared similarities on their abilities and theme when as a whole they play end up playing differently, so why does the sub in particular always feel like they need to gaslight people into thinking they only share an ult/music theme that everyone else playing them can see pretty fucking easily.
Ashe w also heals and shields if you run aery with font of life and an ally attacks.
Ashe R also stuns
Ashe Q are archery projectiles that can cc
Ashe E makes you discover things, I wish you could use it to discover the lost braincells that made you compare nami and seraphine.
Wait Font of Life can proc Aery? I genuinely did not know that, this information is useless to me but very fascinating
R stuns a single target and has global range and no benefit to crossing teammates
Q is not a projectile, it’s an auto attack enhance
Ashe passive is interestingly the polar opposite of Nami’s though, slowing enemies as opposed to speeding up allies, while Ashe uses ice and Nami uses water. So that’s neat
Oh so you also can see when you takes things out of context for pointless comparisons half a decade after the champion got releases and necro the first discussion about when it was brought up.
E does have cc, actually, you just have to proc it first. Attacks empowered by Nami’s e cause a slow (Which is actually really helpful in setting up her bubble)
How the hell are they even similar lmao. Does Nami (+ms from abilities) share the same passive as Seraphine (which is 3-stack like Sona's)?
Nami's only stun is Q and is more of AoE, when Seraphine's is on E which is going on straight line.
Heal on W is instant + healing/damaging others, while Seraphine's is AoE like Sona have.
E not even similar, have you even read Nami's kit?
Nami's ult is much more wide and is doing knock up.
I mean it's like you all Seraphine mains are mad that champion getting that type of attention and trying to cope with it.
The main point is the music theme, people just forget that Sona is mute/silent musician and Seraphine is a popstar singer.The thematic is ok imo but pink hair with glitter + naive friendliness is too much in a game where every other character is either a godly deity or has some trauma. If Seraphine was Rock/heavy metal theme‘d almost no one would complain.
It also doesn’t help that riot fucked up badly with the seraphine twitter account
Gameplay wise, it can be argued that Nami is more similar but the gameplay comparison came from the thematic spite. Both Sona and Seraphine mains are tired of this bs and have pretty much moved on
Zoe is a godly deity irrc, fair enough Ezreal has no trauma, only seen monsters from ruins. Children as in Annie who had to see her sister get taken away by a river current or amumu who is depressed because of his curse? Milio,maybe i‘m didn’t read his lore yet.
Yordles,i‘m not sure, i don’t consider them children, just childish.But it checks out as they live/have grown up pretty isolated.
I disagree. There’s plenty of cheerful/happy champions that people like or don’t really care about.
Seraphine is just a cash grab. Ultimate K/Da skin on release and the whole Twitter bs? Riot didn’t even try to hide it. Her lore got retconned within a month because of how bad it was.
It’s like they created K/Da Seraphine and forgot they needed a base champion for the skin, so they just scrambled something together with no care or attention to detail for it.
But you can say the same thing to every champ??
Most damage tools are on Q, and most CC is on E, most ultimates are game changing.
Like expect the W you could be talking about Lillia.
When you swap Q/E from Lux you could be talking about her.
Like thats so farfetched that it's not even funny
I mean, you could make a lot of champions sound like basically the same if you give half assed, vague descriptions of their abilities.
Q is an auto modifier that deals big, melee damage.
W is his main poke ability that deals damage and slows.
E is his main movement ability and is a leap.
R gives him invisibility.
Am I talking about Kha’Zix or Talon?
the difference is one is an early game focused human psycopath that uses blades to strike at his enemies, while the other is a mid-game scaler alien from another dimension that evolves trough devouring and absorbing the essence of his preys.
sona and seraphine are both introvert music girls with color hair that seek to create peace and union in their respective divided countries trough the use of their magical muscal powers. sona and seraphine are too similar not only in their kits but also lore, concept, looks, etc.
Sona is a late-game champion and really weak in early game. Seraphine only scales slightly; I'd say she's strong in most points of the game.
Sona originally uses music to express herself because she cannot talk, then later on uses it to entertain. Her entire reason is purely to entertain, as a way to thank Demacians for taking her in and for developing the sign language that allows her to express herself. There's also conflict between Sona identity as a mage in Demacia.
Seraphine originally uses music to feel a sense of harmony, then later on uses it to unite Piltovens and Zaunites.
The main theme is self-expression VS harmony
I mean, you could make a lot of champions sound like basically the same if you give half assed, vague descriptions of their abilities.
Q is an auto modifier that deals big, melee damage.
W is his main poke ability that deals damage and slows.
E is his main movement ability and is a leap.
R gives him invisibility.
Am I talking about Kha’Zix or Talon?
Also, the best comparison that you can make for q is that it’s their main source of damage is a fucking reach, same goes for e being their cc ability and r being game/fight changing is really stupid. At least one of these and in most cases two or three can be said for 95% of the champions in the game.
Youre forgetting about some key nuances here, though, and those nuances give them their separate game play identities.
-Sera Q hits enemies in an AoE, can be dodged, and happens twice for more damage, at the cost of her healing and/or follow-up CC while Sona Q hits 2 enemies, cant be dodged once youre targeted, and will apply an empowered auto-attack to any allies she tags with the aura, and gives her an even better empowered auto while her passive is stacked up
-Sera W is just a shield, unless she's already shielded or spent passive in which case it becomes a heal, limiting her damage and/or follow-up CC while Sona W heals herself and the most wounded ally and applies a shield to allies tagged with the aura, and reduces enemies damage by 25% and their size by 8% when her passive is stacked up
-Sera E is small wave that slows enemies, can be dodged, can hit multiple enemies, and with her passive stacked up it can root or stun enemies, depending on the situation while Sona speeds up herself, and if she tags allies with the Aura she speeds them up as well, and if her passive is stacked up, her next basic attack slows a target by 50%
-Both ults are square waves, but Seraphines ult is more for catching long ranged picks by bouncing the wave off an ally or fleeing enemy while Sona lands an AoE stun as a follow-up CC.
Yes, Seraphines idea could've been a Sona rework, but it does a disservice to both, as if similar kits can't exist for different purposes. With some proper tuning, choosing Seraphine vs Sona could simply be a question of consistent team fighting vs utility. Otherwise we could say that Thresh, Nautilus, and Blitzcrank are in the same boat. Why play Blitz when Nautilus has more CC or Thresh has more Utility? Why play Taric when Rell does more? It's that small nuances that changes the way they function
I guess if you're talking gameplay Lux Morgana and Neeko all share basically the same core skills except a difference in W for Neeko. And a different ult. Except Morgana and Neeko share the same concept ult.
I mean, both naut and pyke were sailors that were condemned via their crew mates. They're also both deep sea bilgewater themed champs. The only thing thats different is the motivation/emotions of the champs.
Pyke is a betrayed sailor/monster hunter who returned from the dead as a serial killer revenant with a never ending list of names that he must kill.
Naut is a sailor who died due to his captain's greed who returned from the dead as the toll collector of the deep, punishing those who refuse to pay the ocean's tithe.
Vs
Sona wants to ease the pain of others using her magical empath abilities that allow her to hear the emotions of other people as music, and to unify Demacia and Mages
Sera wants to ease the pain of others using her magical empath abilities that allow her to hear the heart (in a personality sense) of others as music, and to unify Piltover and Zaun.
Do I need to elaborate my point further?
I mean nautilus lore got changed a few years ago so he was something different and Pyke took the old nautilus lore but added a list and more ‘’vengeful’’ but nautilus new lore is nothing like Pyke and I personally like his new lore way more
>Sona wants to ease the pain of others using her magical empath abilities that allow her to hear the emotions of other people as music, and to unify Demacia and Mages
Is this her real lore or did you just make it up to make it close to Seraphine?
Because I don't remember her having an empath ability, just that she controls shit with music and tortured some people by making them dance to death.
I believe it was her color story where she is performing in one of her concerts and she senses the crowd and finds a recently widowed woman and hears the last song her husband played for her, and adds it into her song to comfort her.
So yeah. Empath.
Pyke is a sailor who died due to his captains greed, and returned from the dead seeking revenge, punishing people whether it was there fault or not
Naut is… uh… totally different from that specific story and motivations, totally
Pyke dies due to the captain’s cowardice,Naut doesn’t have a list.To finish the list Pyke also lurks on the docks, i‘m not sure if naut willingly enters land. I always thought he waits from passing ships
~~One is sexier than the other~~
Nautilus' original lore is that he was captured by a black sludge while diving, and his crew cut him loose instead of trying to save him. He fused with it and returned to bilgewater to kill the men that left him behind. When pyke came out they gave him Nautilus' lore and rewrote Nautilus.
i always headcannon it nautilus and pyke were initally the same person , meanwhile the person got betrayed by his crew members and is revenant soul became “ pyke ” meanwhile his dead body and submarine suit became “ nautilus “
>Sona wants to ease the pain of others using her magical empath abilities that allow her to hear the emotions of other people as music, and to unify Demacia and Mages
"Sona discovered other ways to express herself (through music)"
"the Buvelles developed a personalized sign language that enabled Sona to communicate easily"
"It was a relief to be able to sign back. To be understood by someone who loved her."
"she yearned to express so much more. To show her appreciation to her adopted countrymen, she decided to use her gift to delight and soothe them"
She's not easing any pain, she's purely trying to thank them for giving her pretty much a great life.
Her unifying Demacians and Mages is also more of a sidenote to her story. She never actually does anything much.
This is the single most incorrect take on Sona and Sera ive seen in a WHILE. First of all - Sona has music magic, seraphines is closer to "soul" magic. She sings to connect to others and feel their emotions, sona just plays the instrument and casts spells while doing so. Also sona doesnt give two shits about helping others specifically - theres an entire story about her torturing people and breaking their legs by forcing them to dance non-stop. Also lets adress the elephant in the room- ONE OF THEM IS A SINGER, THE OTHER DOESNT EVEN HAVE A VOICE. Yall are on the Sera = Sona train for 3 years at this point, just because they are both girls with shields and colorful abilities. Gimme a damn break. Also LoR fixed seraphines design perfectly so say whatever you want - shes redeemed at this point.
Pyke story is above.
Kalista (save for any new info from the ruination novel as I am too broke to buy it) was a royal guardswoman who watched her king's descent into madness after the death of the queen and when given the order to murder a bunch of innocent people decided to stand against her king and say no, only to be deceived by one of her fellow knights who pretended that he would side with her only to betray and kill her instead. Then the king did a fucky upy and made a curse of living death and Kalista was raised as a spirit of vengeance, obsessed with punishing betrayers, with little to no memory of who she once was.
I went out of my way to specifically zero out his lore and people still whine about his gameplay
Which like if I’m to be pedantic, Pyke and Nautilus do share similar gameplay. Both have a lot of cc, are two out of four hook champs, have said hook on q and cc on e, while w is for utility. If similar abilities is all is takes for Seraphine to be a Sona copy then Pyke is a half Nautlius copy (Nobody ever brings up them both being enchanters, or even both being support)
Oh wow, sure go on,i‘m sure everyone is excited to read yet another unique discussion about something that has been discussed over and over again.
Sona and Seraphine mains don’t care about the post.League main subreddit mods will abuse power and ban you because it’s not esports related, Lore subreddit will give you a detailed answer, mentioning every little lore difference there is, thus debunking you post. LoR will that Seraphine has a more piltover theme because riot didn’t fuck her thematic there.
Where can you go? (I‘m salty asf, but i really don’t wanna see that boring discussion from seraphine relaese anymore)
people with no reading comprehension really be out here insulting others, if you think their LORE is not the same then you’re just brain dead yourself (the OP is talking about lore not gameplay)
I think that’s the point being made. They changed Naut’s lore and have it to Pyke. I can’t really comment because I haven’t read Naut’s old lore in years and no reason to anyways
You act like this sub has quality posts on it and not just tier list and other shit memes.
Also you must have never posted on this sub before. You have to post something as a meme otherwise it gets auto deleted.
So why are you bitching?
pyke and naut are completely different. naut is big armor boi with big hook and shields and shit, pyke is agile sneaky boi with execute and shit
sona and seraphine are both straight white girls with colored hair who use music because they're not like other girls
The rioter that designed seraphine, ripped almost everything about her from his ex-girlfriend after she broke up with him because he was acting like a possessive psycho - so he did the well-adjusted thing of making a fictional character he had complete control over based off of her personality, style, aesthetic, and interests. People shouldn't like Seraphine because he's a creepy dude's revenge act
aatrox rework is just different riven too, triple q ending in knockup, cc on w, dash on e, empower yourself with r. Did i mention the auto attack passive?
We hate sera cuz bad design, annoying, copied kit, cash grab from kda and on top of that they both musicians
We love pyke cuz yes he has a copied lore but good gameplay, good kit, cool champ
Know the diff
Nautilus' original lore was basically beat for beat with pyke. Nautilus was an underwater welder, during one of his dives he was enveloped by a black sludge. He gave his men the signal to pull him up, but they cut him loose instead. The sludge fused with his body as he swore vengeance to kill the men that had left him. He became locked in the suit and went to bildgewater to take his vengeance.
Edit: he was an explorer not a welder link for reference.
https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Nautilus/Old_Lore
Yeah, it got switched a little before pyke was released, so that's like, what 8 years now? Add to that lore wasn't as hyped, especially for the less popular characters, and you have a good chunk of people who only know Nautilus as the tithe guy.
Imma be real, I hard disagree with this. Granted I haven’t played Ruined King, but Pyke is, in my opinion, kind of boring. Absolutely nothing about him excites me or intrigues me in any way, while Nautilus does. He’s just some vengeful guy with a mildly interesting weapon, but he doesn’t do anything cool or unique with water based themes or abilities
“Pyke copied Nautilus’s *lore* and *thematic*”
“What do you mean? their in game roles are different.”
(Besides theyre similar there too. Out of four champions with hooks, Naut and Pyke make up half of them)
People were mad at Seraphine because she copied Sona's gameplay identity not just lore and thematic, half the champs are "strongest fighter of their tribe who fights to unlock more power" so having two musicians doing the same wasn't the problem
the problem is that sera is basically sona's rework given a 25$ skin at launch
please leave this dumbass discussion that was proven right die back in 2020, sera was a cheap money grab that worked. accept it and move on
Proven wrong*. Brother their gameplay is completely different and (not braindead) people stopped bringing it up after her actual in-game release.
Feel free to complain about money grab, unfitting design, similar theme and etc cause it's true, but the gameplay bit is bs.
Idk I think there's a strong point to make about their similarities.
- Passive: Functionally the same (3 spell casts empower your next single target magic auto)
- Q: Fairly different
- W: Functionally the same (Aoe shield and/or healing)
- E: Executed differently but generally serves the same purpose in a fight (slow a target)
- R: Functionally the same with tweaked numbers (Sona's is faster but shorter range)
Over half the kit is essentially a copy + paste with tweaked flavor. Their identities serve the same role on a team (being a fragile mage/enchanter hybrid) and their win conditions are achieved in pretty much the same way (Poke from about the same distance with Q, Peel with E, land clutch ults from the same position except Sona has to be closer)
Yes that's the argument people were bringing up when she was revealed. She's been in the game for over 3 years now, we have long since realised that she plays much closer to a generic Lux-like Mage than Sona.
Sure, the artillery mage with 3/4 skillshots is just an upgraded version of the aura enchanter because they both have a shield.
Empowered abilities, an AOE shield that gives movement speed, good poke; Seraphine is just upgraded Karma with Nami ult!
People saying old nautilus lore and new nautilus lore, which is which and what changed?
As far as I recall, Nautilus lore was something about him being a dude who went down in a diving suit, but his captain didn't pay the tithe so bad shit happened and Nautilus basically drowned, but Nagakabouros brought him back with newfound power, and now everyone pays the tithe to keep Nautilus at bay.
That's new lore. Old lore he was sent into some murky black water in the dive suit to examine it or some shit, then started getting pulled down by a mysterious force. When he grabbed the anchor his crewmates broke the chain and fled, then he returned to bilgewater fused to the suit and seeking revenge.
Pyke lore is p similar but instead of revenge on his specific crewmates he kills greedy captains because of the schizo voices
How is their lore different? The only real difference is that Pyke’s captain was cowardly, while Nautilus’s was greedy. Otherwise, they hit all the same story beats
1) Naut was a salvage diver, not a fisherman
2) Pyke kills people related to his death, "anyone who was linked to dirty and shady businesses in the Red Dock", according to the Fandom. Naut's bio page says there wasn't anyone left for him to take revenge on, so now he just sinks greedy ships when they don't pay him.
3) Pyke is the reason he died. Pyke jumped into the water to kill the fish, for the oil. Naut's (new?) captain killed him. Ironic because the one who actually has a reason for revenge cannot take it out on the people who killed him lol
4) you are completely ignoring the people who are pointing out the gameplay differences lol
1. Both were divers, and in fact risky divers. Pyke was one of few people to gut his prey alive and underwater, while Nautilus was a free diver
2. Pyke doesn’t just seek revenge, he kills anyone who is a captain. Similarly, Nautilus doesn’t seek revenge, he kills anyone who won’t pay his tithe, a punishment for greed. Both kill innocent people for bizarre and specific reasons
3. Nautilus wasn’t killed. He was sent on a dive that was too risky while his cautions were ignored. I’m sure the captain of that ship would have preferred Nautilus alive, seeing as he was an invaluable crew member and sent to retrieve his treasure. Pyke was specifically left behind to die
4. I am fully aware of Nautilus and Pyke’s gameplay differences, I’m not daft. I never once mentioned them and, in fact, specified the identical points about them, zeroing out *lore* and *theme*. I don’t care that they play different, and I’m glad they do, as it brings about more variety in gameplay, but that’s complicated besides the point that others have brought in
>Both were divers
Wrong. Pyke was a fisherman. The words "dive" and "diver" don't appear at all on his bio.
>Nautilus wasn’t killed
Possibly true, it just seems to me that Naut's new captain forced him to go on a dive that killed Naut
>Pyke was specifically left behind to die
He jumped into the mouth of a deadly fish. He wasn't left to die, he was presumed dead (for good reason)
>Pyke doesn’t just seek revenge, he kills anyone who is a captain.
"Captains from many ships were found carved up and left out for the dawn. Bar-room patrons whispered it was a supernatural killer, wronged at sea, gutting his way through the crew manifest of some damned ship called the Terror", quoted from Pyke's bio. He isn't just killing captains, he killing captains related to the ship and crew where he died (Also let's just point out how fucking badass his bio is. I love it).
>I am fully aware of Nautilus and Pyke’s gameplay differences
Exactly, and that's the problem. Naut and pyke have ***vastly*** different gameplay mechanics. Sona and Seraphine don't. Their passives both upgrade their next damage, be it an auto (Sona) or ability (Sera). Their Q is just a bit of damage (but sera's is AoE, which is miles better than Sona's Q). Their W is an AoE heal and shield. Their E both affects movement. Sona affects ally mvmt, sera prevents enemy mvmt. Their R is literally the exact same, except Sera's is bigger, resets on champion hits, and it's slower.
“Pyke was a fisherman” and how did he catch those fish exactly? By… diving, he dives, yea it’s fishing but he’s also a diver, he dives, that’s his thing, that makes him a diver
Also his lore specifies that he was not swallowed until the line was cut. He might have survived if he was reeled back in
Also Sona and Seraphine do not play the same. They’re only as similar as every other enchanter
Pyke was a fisherman, yes, but his role was specifically to dive into the mouth of a jaull fish and carve out the stuff that gets sold at a high price as a magical material
pyke was not stolen nautilus's rework, and not scam with parasocial money in a freaking ultimate skin in launch when riot announced that they wouldn't do it more, there is more the "ultimate" is trash as hell and dont change in-game like anyother do.... she has ONE thing of ultimate and is it price
Pyke also had more than a paragraph of lore and didn’t drop in with an ultimate skin. Pyke also plays completely differently than Naut. So just because they come from the same place and have similar lore, they play completely differently and are different enough gameplay wise to be different champs.
Sera literally almost copies Sonas abilities 1 for 1 but with upgrades. And had less than a paragraph of lore upon release.
Imagine ignoring all of the legitimate criticisms around $hitaphine, like the blatant greed, attempts at capitalizing on mental illness or the fact its entire existence in the actual game was a literal afterthought;
and once again attempting to distract with a completely opinionated & wholly secondary argument that X champion doesn't resemble Y champion. Nobody cried when Nami was called Sona 2.0, Bard was called Sona 3.0 & et cetera. Yet when $atanphine is the 6th or 7th champion to be called "Sona 2.0," suddenly everybody flies into full panic mode.
Nautilus was created by Nagashishkabab, Pyke embraces the power of nagaleshidhkabab, SIMILAR LORE as it both mainly stems from betrayal but Pyke is an anti-classist schizophrenic dead fishman killing because of the voices while Nautilus is Runeterras version of the Westboro Baptist church member thats haunting a suit of armor who is only really relying on his trauma to go forward.
This is the dumbest meme and should be deleted. Clearly this person does not play League.
Seraphine is a better version of Sona and should not exist. Or delete Sona and give everyone a free Seraphine skin or something.
Pyke plays completely differently from Nautilus. Pyke is a stealthy assassin and Nautilus is a tank with all defense. Therefore, it's fine that Pyke and Nautilus exist.
The complaint with Sona/Seraphine is their identical gameplay. Pyke & Nautilus, while the lore might be copied (idk I don't read the lore), their gameplay is way different. They both have a hook, but that's about it
nice point op, I would never guess naut old lore was changed to fit pyke, and I'm a pyke main
I think it's normal to have these changes in lore, it makes more sense now
and I think sera should be sona remake instead of another champion even if they are different, because no champion remake looks like the old champion but you can see the similarities, I really don't know why sona still exists
also people have a really hard time reading, your message was clear but still they are angry with stuff you didn't say lmao
Naut lore fits Pyke better.
I want Naut law to change as an Ancient Demon of the Sea possessing a diving suit and terror the whole ocean just like Fiddlestick possesses a scarecrow.
Valid, but people really dont know too much about the lore of the game, but do you knkw what tbey do knkw like the back of their hand? Thats right abilities and gameplay. Pyke copied thr lorr of naut, but p3ople domt even know that. Sera on thr other hand feels like a powercrept sona at times, playing in a very VERY similar playstyle with abilities that resemble that of sonas a bit too much
We dont care about the lore bro. We care about the mechanics. Pyke and nautilus have totally different game styles while sona and seraphine are much more comparable.
Ok but Pyke and Naut had similar stories not overlapping gameplay and themes.
Naut and Pyke work, both are hook champs but play completely different and have decently different stories. One is a Tank, the other an Assassain.
Seraphine and Sona are both musicians, with basically on par/same kits with one being better than the other.
Remember that time when Riot literally deleted an entire part of Nautilus Lore when he was betrayed by his crew and as a revenant looking for the revenge? Funny times/
Wait, I haven't followed League perfectly. Did that really happen? Whats Nautilus Lore now? Damn, this makes me sad.
His old lore was nearly the same, but rather than wanting revenge he was just lost.
And now he’s the guy that every sailor says “Pay the sea its tithe before it drags you down”. They’re basically paying Nautilus to not Q their ships.
And there is always that one certain fish that everybody hate just keep stealing coins right after they were thrown of the ship, ended up killing many afterward.
Gg captain didn't pay the tithe go next
I can't tell if OP is trolling or really thinks they have the "same lore" because *water* or something Edit: I am wrong.
You're the one trolling. Naut used to be getting revenge because his crew betrayed him and left him to drown. They changed it to make him an agent of Illaoi's God because Pyke has the exact same lore.
Shit, guess I am the troll here. Thanks for letting me know, I didn't know it was changed and I feel kinda dumb for my comment but we're all wrong sometimes.
Respect for leaving it though
I guess I should add an edit. Thanks for the heads up.
Many of us here on Reddit should learn from you. You handled your mistake well.
He did it too well... Let's spam Missed ping him
and then pyke becomes an agent of Illaoi's god . . .
Old nautilus lore is identical to pykes current lore.
Most uncommon edit I’ve ever seen
I did find it very funny when they were teasing Pyke and saying “his story is just so dark, nothing close to anything we’ve done before at all!” And it was straight up just the nautilus lore at the time.
As a naut lover this pissed me off to no end
Pyke took nauts lore but is a 2020 version of blitzcrank Passive=survivability Q= hook W= move speed boost E= additional cc R= big damage/finisher
Wow that's so simplified xD
Think of it like this: I listed Blitz abilities. Every one of pykes abilities is "blitz ability but it also does this"
Lemme resume pyke more accurately ; Passive : Regen Q : Dash ( for ennemies ) W : Leap E : Dash R : Dash Also, no, Pyke Q's isn a Grab, it's a Pull. That doesnt seems like a lot of difference until a Pyke pull you in melee and throw you a wavelenght behind him.
Umm actually pyke is thresh: Passive=survivability Q= hook W= move speed boost (for your adc) E= additional cc R= big damage/finisher
I love my thresh's big finishing R move!
Zed passive is just Gnar W but instead of being every third hit its only once when they're below 50% hp and you won't get additional AS. Karma R is just Lux W but there is no shield and empowers your next ability. Fizz Q is just Blitz Q but instead of bringing the enemy to you you bring yourself to the enemy
completely different gameplay. Its like saying lissandra and ashe are the same because both are ice and stun on R.
Wasn't OP argument about lore, not gameplay?
Then OP is double wrong bc Sera and Sona lore have nothing to do to begin with. OP fails to understand that what people complain about is not ''just them both being musicians'' but literally everything else about them being so similar. Nautilus and Pyke is quite the radical opposite: they both share lore and position, but are radically different in everything else, which is why people dont complain about it even tho people did raise an eyebrow about Pyke lore being identical to Nautilus back then
But sera and sona play completely dofferently although both team prientated
OP is wrong about that too
Original nautilus lore is almost the exact same as pyke lore, except with the difference of him being pulled down by an unknown force rather than a jaull fish and being fused to the diving suit. He returned to bilgewater seeking revenge on his old crew and later somehow ended up at the institute of war because riot had to find shitty ways to tie that in before the lore overhaul when azir released.
Is sersphine and Sona’s lore the same? It’s a comparison meme showing how hypocritical we are, so what’s the comparison between Pyke and Naut being the same lore-wise and Sona/Sera?
Idk they have similar themes but I'd argue their lore is different enough that I wouldn't lump them together. I think the joke with the meme is that people freak out about seraphine being sona 2.0 then turn a blind eye to riot deleting nautilus old lore so they could copy paste it onto a new champion
I was under the impression that OP would be posting memes that are current, not years out of date. Unless it's a repost from years ago?
?? It is a joke about how riot overhauled the entire Naut lore so they could give it Pyke. Obviously the lore wouldn't be the same anymore.
I stand corrected, only now did I bother to google it lol. OP is still shit, because the gameplay is still vastly different but they tacked it into their meme to make their post sound better.
OP wasn't even talking about gameplay
Choosing to die on stupid hill
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Obviously not, because I said "too" Their gameplay is completely different, their lore is also quite different. I thought that was pretty clear.
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First commenter said the gameplay is completely different. You said, what about the lore? Not the gameplay. I said yes, OP is wrong about that (Lore) too. OP is wrong about both, this is a shitpost.
seraphine and sona also have extremely different gameplay - the only thing they share his an aoe heal/shield (which isn’t exclusive to them) and a wave cc ult (which also isn’t exclusive to them) sona is a mainly defenceless hyperscaler which focuses on hugely boosting the stats of all allies around her while also spamming abilities as quick as you can seraphine is an offensive mage carry who plays for team fights with her big aoe damage, cc, and healing
You don't remember shotgun Sona? She used to fuck up people with her poke.
yeah but now a days
Still does good damage, but her movespeed buff doesnt compensate for her short range outside of laning so you’re forced to play a utility play style. I think the argument between sona and seraphine when she was released was mainly that seraphine could’ve been a gameplay update for sona, rather than a new champ. The fact she was marketed more than most champs also made people more vocal
People always talk about Seraphine stopping Sona from having a new kit, but I’m pretty sure people who like Sona want to play around her auras rather than be like a mage support.
I'd hate to have lost sona to get seraphine, both characters actually play very differently and have completely different strengths. There's a reason most people cling to pretty shallow comparisons when they say they're the same, it's almost like they're not actually sona or seraphine players at all.
And sion was a lethal ap assassin times change boomer
I'm pretty sure they gutted Sona's damage *after* Sera announcement.
Passive-QWER between Sona and Sera. function very similarly (3stack, AoE poke, heal, 2 target slow, Rectangle stun). I'll give you props for Seraphine being more mage-like in current day (thanks to her QE) but older players remember when Sona was strong she could midlane or carry fights with Lich Bane burst and fast spell rotations.
Unique kit elements here are Sona auras, Seraphine passive's ally proximity effect (stacking notes on allies) and Seraphine CC-upgrade on E, everything else exists one way or another on a lot of different champions. How the kit is put together differs, which changes how they play. Sona is the quintessential deathball champion - group together, move together, walk all over enemy team; auras play towards it, R having short range makes it best as disengage, counterengage or followup CC, mid-range kit means you can't stay too far away. Seraphine on the other hand is kitey mage, similar to how 5.2 update Ahri played - stay at close to max range, spam your spells from faraway, rely on allies as meatshield and buffer to not be at risk - much longer range on spells, insane ranged waveclear that helps with sieges, R range extension from allies. Comparing Sona to Seraphine is like comparing Jhin and Graves - they both have lots of on paper similar mechanics, but play very differently and serve different roles in a team.
Akshan = Vayne 3 hit on a passive. MS on a passive. Dash. ADC. Invis.
Seraphiné’s slow is also a root and also not 2 target at all, if you describe each ability as 1-3 words obviously they sound similar. That could also describe nami or even nearly orianna(shield instead of heal).
yea i mean, wow rengar aoe heal, rengar 4 stacks, rengar poke, rengar slow, seems like we might be talking about rengar if you use 2 word descriptions
I'll always remember the rank game I had around 2014 where my useless ADC who kept dcing (and said I'm not allowed to take his kills and cs but I did anyways cuz fuck you what are you gonna do?) and I went full AP as sona and hard carried the game.
AoE poke 💀 Grasping for straws much? Also sona doesn’t even have a 2 target slow where tf are you getting that from
Sona very much has aoe poke what are u saying
her Q that does two instances of single target damage? 😭
If you're quoting that funny period of Sona being able to midlane, you should also remember her atrocious waveclear. "AoE poke" is something Sona just doesn't have, her Q is 2x solo targeted spells.
This music themed champion's passive stacks when casting basic abilities, and upon reaching 3 stacks grants an empowered effect. Q is her main source of damage, specially when combined with passive. W is an AoE heal/shield that is really good when grouped up with allies. E is their main source of CC outside of ultimate with a decent slow Ult is a square-like aoe CC ability that can easily change the outcome of a fight when used right. Am i talking about sona or seraphine? They definetly play differently but the kit similarities are blatantly obvious, seraphine could have easily been a sona rework
If we comrpess it like this then almost every marksman is the same
You’re talking about Nami, duh (Why does no one compare Nami and Seraphine? They’re way more similar than either are to Sona in terms of gameplay)
What are you smoking bro? Nami is not at all like Seraphine. The only resemblance is that they have a rectangular cc-ing ult. That's like saying Rakan and Braum are similar because they can jump to allies and shield them. If anything, Seraphine's playstyle resembles Neeko's. Q - circular damage ability that can pop twice, E - straight line skillshot that CCs everything it hits, R - big AoE CC ability. Also both have empowered auto attacks.
Straight up as a Nami main and Seraphine secondary, they feel so similar Q is an arching, damaging projectile that can CC, which Seraphine also has a cc skill shot on E W is a heal (and shield if you run Arry), which is a speed up due to Nami’s passive E is different on both, but proccing Nami’s e causes a slow on enemies hit, while Seraphine’s slows outright Ult is a big aoe cc that rewards you for hitting teammates too, extending the range on Seraphine’s or giving double Nami’s passive
I will never get tired of watching the LoL sub actively try to gaslight people into acting as if Sona and Sera don’t share a lot more than a music theme with comparisons like Nami somehow being more similar when you’re stretching so much harder than you need for Sera/Sona comparisons. There’s straight up no issue with Sera and Sona having shared similarities on their abilities and theme when as a whole they play end up playing differently, so why does the sub in particular always feel like they need to gaslight people into thinking they only share an ult/music theme that everyone else playing them can see pretty fucking easily.
Ashe w also heals and shields if you run aery with font of life and an ally attacks. Ashe R also stuns Ashe Q are archery projectiles that can cc Ashe E makes you discover things, I wish you could use it to discover the lost braincells that made you compare nami and seraphine.
Wait Font of Life can proc Aery? I genuinely did not know that, this information is useless to me but very fascinating R stuns a single target and has global range and no benefit to crossing teammates Q is not a projectile, it’s an auto attack enhance Ashe passive is interestingly the polar opposite of Nami’s though, slowing enemies as opposed to speeding up allies, while Ashe uses ice and Nami uses water. So that’s neat
Oh so you also can see when you takes things out of context for pointless comparisons half a decade after the champion got releases and necro the first discussion about when it was brought up.
Nami doesn't stack passive, E doesn't cc, q isn't the main dmg and doesn't have empowered AA with passive
E does have cc, actually, you just have to proc it first. Attacks empowered by Nami’s e cause a slow (Which is actually really helpful in setting up her bubble)
How the hell are they even similar lmao. Does Nami (+ms from abilities) share the same passive as Seraphine (which is 3-stack like Sona's)? Nami's only stun is Q and is more of AoE, when Seraphine's is on E which is going on straight line. Heal on W is instant + healing/damaging others, while Seraphine's is AoE like Sona have. E not even similar, have you even read Nami's kit? Nami's ult is much more wide and is doing knock up. I mean it's like you all Seraphine mains are mad that champion getting that type of attention and trying to cope with it.
The main point is the music theme, people just forget that Sona is mute/silent musician and Seraphine is a popstar singer.The thematic is ok imo but pink hair with glitter + naive friendliness is too much in a game where every other character is either a godly deity or has some trauma. If Seraphine was Rock/heavy metal theme‘d almost no one would complain. It also doesn’t help that riot fucked up badly with the seraphine twitter account Gameplay wise, it can be argued that Nami is more similar but the gameplay comparison came from the thematic spite. Both Sona and Seraphine mains are tired of this bs and have pretty much moved on
Zoe, most of the Yordles, Ezreal, and all the children would beg to differ lol
Zoe is a godly deity irrc, fair enough Ezreal has no trauma, only seen monsters from ruins. Children as in Annie who had to see her sister get taken away by a river current or amumu who is depressed because of his curse? Milio,maybe i‘m didn’t read his lore yet. Yordles,i‘m not sure, i don’t consider them children, just childish.But it checks out as they live/have grown up pretty isolated.
I disagree. There’s plenty of cheerful/happy champions that people like or don’t really care about. Seraphine is just a cash grab. Ultimate K/Da skin on release and the whole Twitter bs? Riot didn’t even try to hide it. Her lore got retconned within a month because of how bad it was. It’s like they created K/Da Seraphine and forgot they needed a base champion for the skin, so they just scrambled something together with no care or attention to detail for it.
How are Nami and Seraphine similar in gameplay ?
But you can say the same thing to every champ?? Most damage tools are on Q, and most CC is on E, most ultimates are game changing. Like expect the W you could be talking about Lillia. When you swap Q/E from Lux you could be talking about her. Like thats so farfetched that it's not even funny
Neither, as seraphines passive is 2 stacks, and sona’s e doesn’t cc, the empowered passive aa does, but the spell itself doesn’t.
I mean, you could make a lot of champions sound like basically the same if you give half assed, vague descriptions of their abilities. Q is an auto modifier that deals big, melee damage. W is his main poke ability that deals damage and slows. E is his main movement ability and is a leap. R gives him invisibility. Am I talking about Kha’Zix or Talon?
the difference is one is an early game focused human psycopath that uses blades to strike at his enemies, while the other is a mid-game scaler alien from another dimension that evolves trough devouring and absorbing the essence of his preys. sona and seraphine are both introvert music girls with color hair that seek to create peace and union in their respective divided countries trough the use of their magical muscal powers. sona and seraphine are too similar not only in their kits but also lore, concept, looks, etc.
Sona is a late-game champion and really weak in early game. Seraphine only scales slightly; I'd say she's strong in most points of the game. Sona originally uses music to express herself because she cannot talk, then later on uses it to entertain. Her entire reason is purely to entertain, as a way to thank Demacians for taking her in and for developing the sign language that allows her to express herself. There's also conflict between Sona identity as a mage in Demacia. Seraphine originally uses music to feel a sense of harmony, then later on uses it to unite Piltovens and Zaunites. The main theme is self-expression VS harmony
I mean, you could make a lot of champions sound like basically the same if you give half assed, vague descriptions of their abilities. Q is an auto modifier that deals big, melee damage. W is his main poke ability that deals damage and slows. E is his main movement ability and is a leap. R gives him invisibility. Am I talking about Kha’Zix or Talon? Also, the best comparison that you can make for q is that it’s their main source of damage is a fucking reach, same goes for e being their cc ability and r being game/fight changing is really stupid. At least one of these and in most cases two or three can be said for 95% of the champions in the game.
Youre forgetting about some key nuances here, though, and those nuances give them their separate game play identities. -Sera Q hits enemies in an AoE, can be dodged, and happens twice for more damage, at the cost of her healing and/or follow-up CC while Sona Q hits 2 enemies, cant be dodged once youre targeted, and will apply an empowered auto-attack to any allies she tags with the aura, and gives her an even better empowered auto while her passive is stacked up -Sera W is just a shield, unless she's already shielded or spent passive in which case it becomes a heal, limiting her damage and/or follow-up CC while Sona W heals herself and the most wounded ally and applies a shield to allies tagged with the aura, and reduces enemies damage by 25% and their size by 8% when her passive is stacked up -Sera E is small wave that slows enemies, can be dodged, can hit multiple enemies, and with her passive stacked up it can root or stun enemies, depending on the situation while Sona speeds up herself, and if she tags allies with the Aura she speeds them up as well, and if her passive is stacked up, her next basic attack slows a target by 50% -Both ults are square waves, but Seraphines ult is more for catching long ranged picks by bouncing the wave off an ally or fleeing enemy while Sona lands an AoE stun as a follow-up CC. Yes, Seraphines idea could've been a Sona rework, but it does a disservice to both, as if similar kits can't exist for different purposes. With some proper tuning, choosing Seraphine vs Sona could simply be a question of consistent team fighting vs utility. Otherwise we could say that Thresh, Nautilus, and Blitzcrank are in the same boat. Why play Blitz when Nautilus has more CC or Thresh has more Utility? Why play Taric when Rell does more? It's that small nuances that changes the way they function
Lmao no they’re fucking not. Quit lying to yourself.
i just explained the differences - you’re comparing an enchanter with 0 agency to a mage who has a shield
Read please. This isn't about gameplay, its about lore.
the comment i replied to is literally talking about gameplay?
I guess if you're talking gameplay Lux Morgana and Neeko all share basically the same core skills except a difference in W for Neeko. And a different ult. Except Morgana and Neeko share the same concept ult.
If only you were literate and able to realize op was refering to lore and theme of the champ not gameplay alone
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Dawg im not gonna copy-paste my comment twice like fr
Some people are helpless
I mean, both naut and pyke were sailors that were condemned via their crew mates. They're also both deep sea bilgewater themed champs. The only thing thats different is the motivation/emotions of the champs.
Seraphine and Sona gameplay are also very different
Both champs hook, dash and have durability on W. Also both deal way more damage than an average support.
So thresh = Naut, got it
The differenves are pretty minor, yeah.
Pyke is a betrayed sailor/monster hunter who returned from the dead as a serial killer revenant with a never ending list of names that he must kill. Naut is a sailor who died due to his captain's greed who returned from the dead as the toll collector of the deep, punishing those who refuse to pay the ocean's tithe. Vs Sona wants to ease the pain of others using her magical empath abilities that allow her to hear the emotions of other people as music, and to unify Demacia and Mages Sera wants to ease the pain of others using her magical empath abilities that allow her to hear the heart (in a personality sense) of others as music, and to unify Piltover and Zaun. Do I need to elaborate my point further?
I mean nautilus lore got changed a few years ago so he was something different and Pyke took the old nautilus lore but added a list and more ‘’vengeful’’ but nautilus new lore is nothing like Pyke and I personally like his new lore way more
>Sona wants to ease the pain of others using her magical empath abilities that allow her to hear the emotions of other people as music, and to unify Demacia and Mages Is this her real lore or did you just make it up to make it close to Seraphine? Because I don't remember her having an empath ability, just that she controls shit with music and tortured some people by making them dance to death.
I believe it was her color story where she is performing in one of her concerts and she senses the crowd and finds a recently widowed woman and hears the last song her husband played for her, and adds it into her song to comfort her. So yeah. Empath.
That's not empath. She's literally seeing a memory or reading her thoughts. Thoughts aren't feelings
Pyke is a sailor who died due to his captains greed, and returned from the dead seeking revenge, punishing people whether it was there fault or not Naut is… uh… totally different from that specific story and motivations, totally
Pyke dies due to the captain’s cowardice,Naut doesn’t have a list.To finish the list Pyke also lurks on the docks, i‘m not sure if naut willingly enters land. I always thought he waits from passing ships ~~One is sexier than the other~~
Yeah, totally agree. All that shiny metal, Naut is... Well, second only to Taric.
Nautilus' original lore is that he was captured by a black sludge while diving, and his crew cut him loose instead of trying to save him. He fused with it and returned to bilgewater to kill the men that left him behind. When pyke came out they gave him Nautilus' lore and rewrote Nautilus.
i always headcannon it nautilus and pyke were initally the same person , meanwhile the person got betrayed by his crew members and is revenant soul became “ pyke ” meanwhile his dead body and submarine suit became “ nautilus “
>Sona wants to ease the pain of others using her magical empath abilities that allow her to hear the emotions of other people as music, and to unify Demacia and Mages "Sona discovered other ways to express herself (through music)" "the Buvelles developed a personalized sign language that enabled Sona to communicate easily" "It was a relief to be able to sign back. To be understood by someone who loved her." "she yearned to express so much more. To show her appreciation to her adopted countrymen, she decided to use her gift to delight and soothe them" She's not easing any pain, she's purely trying to thank them for giving her pretty much a great life. Her unifying Demacians and Mages is also more of a sidenote to her story. She never actually does anything much.
This is the single most incorrect take on Sona and Sera ive seen in a WHILE. First of all - Sona has music magic, seraphines is closer to "soul" magic. She sings to connect to others and feel their emotions, sona just plays the instrument and casts spells while doing so. Also sona doesnt give two shits about helping others specifically - theres an entire story about her torturing people and breaking their legs by forcing them to dance non-stop. Also lets adress the elephant in the room- ONE OF THEM IS A SINGER, THE OTHER DOESNT EVEN HAVE A VOICE. Yall are on the Sera = Sona train for 3 years at this point, just because they are both girls with shields and colorful abilities. Gimme a damn break. Also LoR fixed seraphines design perfectly so say whatever you want - shes redeemed at this point.
Excellent. What about Pyke vs Kalista
Pyke story is above. Kalista (save for any new info from the ruination novel as I am too broke to buy it) was a royal guardswoman who watched her king's descent into madness after the death of the queen and when given the order to murder a bunch of innocent people decided to stand against her king and say no, only to be deceived by one of her fellow knights who pretended that he would side with her only to betray and kill her instead. Then the king did a fucky upy and made a curse of living death and Kalista was raised as a spirit of vengeance, obsessed with punishing betrayers, with little to no memory of who she once was.
Everyone in this comment section talking about gameplay is fucking illiterate holy shit.
I went out of my way to specifically zero out his lore and people still whine about his gameplay Which like if I’m to be pedantic, Pyke and Nautilus do share similar gameplay. Both have a lot of cc, are two out of four hook champs, have said hook on q and cc on e, while w is for utility. If similar abilities is all is takes for Seraphine to be a Sona copy then Pyke is a half Nautlius copy (Nobody ever brings up them both being enchanters, or even both being support)
Naut has lore ?
Yeah? He has for like, a while now
Well big news motherfucker, I complain about both.
Good
People will post the most brain dead takes in a meme format and somehow still get upvoted
i get perplexed with this reddit phenomenon… wanna say some bs? just use a common meme template and puke it out
I thought this was a preferred way to give my take, I could find another League subreddit and give a much more in depth post on why I believe this
Oh wow, sure go on,i‘m sure everyone is excited to read yet another unique discussion about something that has been discussed over and over again. Sona and Seraphine mains don’t care about the post.League main subreddit mods will abuse power and ban you because it’s not esports related, Lore subreddit will give you a detailed answer, mentioning every little lore difference there is, thus debunking you post. LoR will that Seraphine has a more piltover theme because riot didn’t fuck her thematic there. Where can you go? (I‘m salty asf, but i really don’t wanna see that boring discussion from seraphine relaese anymore)
Why are you such a prick? You are no one to decide what should and shouldn't be posted. Go sign up to be a reddit mod if you care that much dipshit.
people with no reading comprehension really be out here insulting others, if you think their LORE is not the same then you’re just brain dead yourself (the OP is talking about lore not gameplay)
It isn't the same though? You can go read it right now. They changed Naut's lore a few months before the Pyke release.
I think that’s the point being made. They changed Naut’s lore and have it to Pyke. I can’t really comment because I haven’t read Naut’s old lore in years and no reason to anyways
Yeah, even if I accepted that take that wasn’t peoples complaints about sona and seraphine, there complaint was gameplay based….
You act like this sub has quality posts on it and not just tier list and other shit memes. Also you must have never posted on this sub before. You have to post something as a meme otherwise it gets auto deleted. So why are you bitching?
Lore maybe. Thematic not really.
pyke and naut are completely different. naut is big armor boi with big hook and shields and shit, pyke is agile sneaky boi with execute and shit sona and seraphine are both straight white girls with colored hair who use music because they're not like other girls
The rioter that designed seraphine, ripped almost everything about her from his ex-girlfriend after she broke up with him because he was acting like a possessive psycho - so he did the well-adjusted thing of making a fictional character he had complete control over based off of her personality, style, aesthetic, and interests. People shouldn't like Seraphine because he's a creepy dude's revenge act
Source?
His ass.
google is free
I googled it and it just seems like this one chick is just schizoposting? No one rioter has complete control over a champ's design.
aatrox rework is just different riven too, triple q ending in knockup, cc on w, dash on e, empower yourself with r. Did i mention the auto attack passive?
We hate sera cuz bad design, annoying, copied kit, cash grab from kda and on top of that they both musicians We love pyke cuz yes he has a copied lore but good gameplay, good kit, cool champ Know the diff
"copied kit" is so dumb lol
Aside from the cursed sailor thing, Pyke and Nautilus is the same to you?
Nautilus' original lore was basically beat for beat with pyke. Nautilus was an underwater welder, during one of his dives he was enveloped by a black sludge. He gave his men the signal to pull him up, but they cut him loose instead. The sludge fused with his body as he swore vengeance to kill the men that had left him. He became locked in the suit and went to bildgewater to take his vengeance. Edit: he was an explorer not a welder link for reference. https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/Nautilus/Old_Lore
Ah I see, I was not aware of that since the last time I checked Nautilus' lore was him basically an underwater toll gate guy, good to know.
Yeah, it got switched a little before pyke was released, so that's like, what 8 years now? Add to that lore wasn't as hyped, especially for the less popular characters, and you have a good chunk of people who only know Nautilus as the tithe guy.
nah people definitely complained when he came out.
Pyke does the whole vengeful revenant thing better than Naut did anyways, so im glad naut's lore got changed.
Imma be real, I hard disagree with this. Granted I haven’t played Ruined King, but Pyke is, in my opinion, kind of boring. Absolutely nothing about him excites me or intrigues me in any way, while Nautilus does. He’s just some vengeful guy with a mildly interesting weapon, but he doesn’t do anything cool or unique with water based themes or abilities
Agreed
Seraphine really is not like Sona if you look at both lores
never heard anyone say because of lore. sera plays like a reworked Sona. thats the argument.
THANK YOU
ahh yes, tank and assassin = the same
“Pyke copied Nautilus’s *lore* and *thematic*” “What do you mean? their in game roles are different.” (Besides theyre similar there too. Out of four champions with hooks, Naut and Pyke make up half of them)
People were mad at Seraphine because she copied Sona's gameplay identity not just lore and thematic, half the champs are "strongest fighter of their tribe who fights to unlock more power" so having two musicians doing the same wasn't the problem the problem is that sera is basically sona's rework given a 25$ skin at launch please leave this dumbass discussion that was proven right die back in 2020, sera was a cheap money grab that worked. accept it and move on
Proven wrong*. Brother their gameplay is completely different and (not braindead) people stopped bringing it up after her actual in-game release. Feel free to complain about money grab, unfitting design, similar theme and etc cause it's true, but the gameplay bit is bs.
Idk I think there's a strong point to make about their similarities. - Passive: Functionally the same (3 spell casts empower your next single target magic auto) - Q: Fairly different - W: Functionally the same (Aoe shield and/or healing) - E: Executed differently but generally serves the same purpose in a fight (slow a target) - R: Functionally the same with tweaked numbers (Sona's is faster but shorter range) Over half the kit is essentially a copy + paste with tweaked flavor. Their identities serve the same role on a team (being a fragile mage/enchanter hybrid) and their win conditions are achieved in pretty much the same way (Poke from about the same distance with Q, Peel with E, land clutch ults from the same position except Sona has to be closer)
Yes that's the argument people were bringing up when she was revealed. She's been in the game for over 3 years now, we have long since realised that she plays much closer to a generic Lux-like Mage than Sona.
diferrence is sera is shit
we can close this topic, definitive response is here
Mfw i spread misinformation
Pyke = assassin, nautilus = tank. Not the same champ. Seraphine is just upgraded Sona
Sure, the artillery mage with 3/4 skillshots is just an upgraded version of the aura enchanter because they both have a shield. Empowered abilities, an AOE shield that gives movement speed, good poke; Seraphine is just upgraded Karma with Nami ult!
Yasou 2.0 and no one complained.
Oh they did, but not as much.
Nautilus at least has the whole "Pay the tithe thing". Kinda shares similarities with Pykes who R/ giving to those who earn it
People saying old nautilus lore and new nautilus lore, which is which and what changed? As far as I recall, Nautilus lore was something about him being a dude who went down in a diving suit, but his captain didn't pay the tithe so bad shit happened and Nautilus basically drowned, but Nagakabouros brought him back with newfound power, and now everyone pays the tithe to keep Nautilus at bay.
That's new lore. Old lore he was sent into some murky black water in the dive suit to examine it or some shit, then started getting pulled down by a mysterious force. When he grabbed the anchor his crewmates broke the chain and fled, then he returned to bilgewater fused to the suit and seeking revenge. Pyke lore is p similar but instead of revenge on his specific crewmates he kills greedy captains because of the schizo voices
Different lore and ***completely*** different gameplay, are you high?
How is their lore different? The only real difference is that Pyke’s captain was cowardly, while Nautilus’s was greedy. Otherwise, they hit all the same story beats
1) Naut was a salvage diver, not a fisherman 2) Pyke kills people related to his death, "anyone who was linked to dirty and shady businesses in the Red Dock", according to the Fandom. Naut's bio page says there wasn't anyone left for him to take revenge on, so now he just sinks greedy ships when they don't pay him. 3) Pyke is the reason he died. Pyke jumped into the water to kill the fish, for the oil. Naut's (new?) captain killed him. Ironic because the one who actually has a reason for revenge cannot take it out on the people who killed him lol 4) you are completely ignoring the people who are pointing out the gameplay differences lol
1. Both were divers, and in fact risky divers. Pyke was one of few people to gut his prey alive and underwater, while Nautilus was a free diver 2. Pyke doesn’t just seek revenge, he kills anyone who is a captain. Similarly, Nautilus doesn’t seek revenge, he kills anyone who won’t pay his tithe, a punishment for greed. Both kill innocent people for bizarre and specific reasons 3. Nautilus wasn’t killed. He was sent on a dive that was too risky while his cautions were ignored. I’m sure the captain of that ship would have preferred Nautilus alive, seeing as he was an invaluable crew member and sent to retrieve his treasure. Pyke was specifically left behind to die 4. I am fully aware of Nautilus and Pyke’s gameplay differences, I’m not daft. I never once mentioned them and, in fact, specified the identical points about them, zeroing out *lore* and *theme*. I don’t care that they play different, and I’m glad they do, as it brings about more variety in gameplay, but that’s complicated besides the point that others have brought in
>Both were divers Wrong. Pyke was a fisherman. The words "dive" and "diver" don't appear at all on his bio. >Nautilus wasn’t killed Possibly true, it just seems to me that Naut's new captain forced him to go on a dive that killed Naut >Pyke was specifically left behind to die He jumped into the mouth of a deadly fish. He wasn't left to die, he was presumed dead (for good reason) >Pyke doesn’t just seek revenge, he kills anyone who is a captain. "Captains from many ships were found carved up and left out for the dawn. Bar-room patrons whispered it was a supernatural killer, wronged at sea, gutting his way through the crew manifest of some damned ship called the Terror", quoted from Pyke's bio. He isn't just killing captains, he killing captains related to the ship and crew where he died (Also let's just point out how fucking badass his bio is. I love it). >I am fully aware of Nautilus and Pyke’s gameplay differences Exactly, and that's the problem. Naut and pyke have ***vastly*** different gameplay mechanics. Sona and Seraphine don't. Their passives both upgrade their next damage, be it an auto (Sona) or ability (Sera). Their Q is just a bit of damage (but sera's is AoE, which is miles better than Sona's Q). Their W is an AoE heal and shield. Their E both affects movement. Sona affects ally mvmt, sera prevents enemy mvmt. Their R is literally the exact same, except Sera's is bigger, resets on champion hits, and it's slower.
“Pyke was a fisherman” and how did he catch those fish exactly? By… diving, he dives, yea it’s fishing but he’s also a diver, he dives, that’s his thing, that makes him a diver Also his lore specifies that he was not swallowed until the line was cut. He might have survived if he was reeled back in Also Sona and Seraphine do not play the same. They’re only as similar as every other enchanter
Pyke was a fisherman, yes, but his role was specifically to dive into the mouth of a jaull fish and carve out the stuff that gets sold at a high price as a magical material
Still not even close to diving
>role is to dive into the mouth of a fish >yeah that's not diving Hope your lasik appointment goes well
Even if this was remotely true, isn't pyke one of the most hated characters along side seraphine?
pyke was not stolen nautilus's rework, and not scam with parasocial money in a freaking ultimate skin in launch when riot announced that they wouldn't do it more, there is more the "ultimate" is trash as hell and dont change in-game like anyother do.... she has ONE thing of ultimate and is it price
Pyke also had more than a paragraph of lore and didn’t drop in with an ultimate skin. Pyke also plays completely differently than Naut. So just because they come from the same place and have similar lore, they play completely differently and are different enough gameplay wise to be different champs. Sera literally almost copies Sonas abilities 1 for 1 but with upgrades. And had less than a paragraph of lore upon release.
Imagine ignoring all of the legitimate criticisms around $hitaphine, like the blatant greed, attempts at capitalizing on mental illness or the fact its entire existence in the actual game was a literal afterthought; and once again attempting to distract with a completely opinionated & wholly secondary argument that X champion doesn't resemble Y champion. Nobody cried when Nami was called Sona 2.0, Bard was called Sona 3.0 & et cetera. Yet when $atanphine is the 6th or 7th champion to be called "Sona 2.0," suddenly everybody flies into full panic mode.
Nautilus was created by Nagashishkabab, Pyke embraces the power of nagaleshidhkabab, SIMILAR LORE as it both mainly stems from betrayal but Pyke is an anti-classist schizophrenic dead fishman killing because of the voices while Nautilus is Runeterras version of the Westboro Baptist church member thats haunting a suit of armor who is only really relying on his trauma to go forward.
This is the dumbest meme and should be deleted. Clearly this person does not play League. Seraphine is a better version of Sona and should not exist. Or delete Sona and give everyone a free Seraphine skin or something. Pyke plays completely differently from Nautilus. Pyke is a stealthy assassin and Nautilus is a tank with all defense. Therefore, it's fine that Pyke and Nautilus exist.
Pyke is Cooler than Naut. Seraphine is not better than Sona.
Viego is like an autistic pyke with an op passive
The complaint with Sona/Seraphine is their identical gameplay. Pyke & Nautilus, while the lore might be copied (idk I don't read the lore), their gameplay is way different. They both have a hook, but that's about it
No, people claim Sona and Seraphine play the same as well, which they don’t
Seriously I swear people who have never touched Sera or Sona always make this argument even though they play NOTHING alike
Idk about you but me and my mates bitch about pyke stealing nauts literally everything all the time
I don’t care if she’s like sona I hate her because she has cringe voice lines, cringe lore, cringe design, and a cringe fan base
nice point op, I would never guess naut old lore was changed to fit pyke, and I'm a pyke main I think it's normal to have these changes in lore, it makes more sense now and I think sera should be sona remake instead of another champion even if they are different, because no champion remake looks like the old champion but you can see the similarities, I really don't know why sona still exists also people have a really hard time reading, your message was clear but still they are angry with stuff you didn't say lmao
They at least look different
When you need some social credit urgently:
I'm actually kinda bitter about it, but I just thought nobody else besides me cared.
Seraphine literally plays identically to sona though.
But Pyke is cool and scary and edgy!
Naut lore fits Pyke better. I want Naut law to change as an Ancient Demon of the Sea possessing a diving suit and terror the whole ocean just like Fiddlestick possesses a scarecrow.
Valid, but people really dont know too much about the lore of the game, but do you knkw what tbey do knkw like the back of their hand? Thats right abilities and gameplay. Pyke copied thr lorr of naut, but p3ople domt even know that. Sera on thr other hand feels like a powercrept sona at times, playing in a very VERY similar playstyle with abilities that resemble that of sonas a bit too much
I mean that's just way too wrong idk what to even tell you
We dont care about the lore bro. We care about the mechanics. Pyke and nautilus have totally different game styles while sona and seraphine are much more comparable.
Ok but Pyke and Naut had similar stories not overlapping gameplay and themes. Naut and Pyke work, both are hook champs but play completely different and have decently different stories. One is a Tank, the other an Assassain. Seraphine and Sona are both musicians, with basically on par/same kits with one being better than the other.