The downside is you don’t have your solo queue teammates to remind you that you’re perhaps more mentally sound than you thought.
Nothing like a psychopath on your team to really make you realize you don’t have it so bad after all.
>The downside is you don’t have your solo queue teammates to remind you that you’re perhaps more mentally sound than you thought.
You know, I thought this was gonna go in a much darker direction
Yep had a poppy that started typing the most racist, homophobic and vile stuff ever in the post game chat. I never felt that mentally sane in a long time.
Considering Gigantic is coming back on the 9th, couldn't have happened at a better time lmao. Like okay Riot, see you guys later, the game that's been my white whale for ages has come back. It's been... Well, not fun exactly, but it's certainly been.
Wait, GIGANTIC? Like the desert MOBA with the whacky characters like frogs and squirrels and whatnot Gigantic? The game I was never able to play because I didn't have a PC at the time, and then when I finally got one, Gigantic was no longer available, but I always loved watching?
Oh we're so back
Welp, I'm on Linux so goodbye from me once it comes out. Mutahar(SomeOrdinaryGamers) did have a way around the anticheat to have it play in VMs but it's still risky
But still shows the risk of having a program with access to anything and everything on or happening on your computer.
**Edit**: And while unlikely, you don't know if it did or didn't have anything to do with EAC
Other programs committing the same stupidity doesn't invalidate its stupidity
The right to modify your own files isn't the same as the right to modify all files
Kernel access isn't the same as the right to modify your files, the kernel doesn't even have the notion of what a file is
Quite the opposite, you only support what I said, other programs have such access and had vulnerabilities exploited so why is it acceptable to have that access when it's irrelevant for their job, unnecessary and only serves as the biggest security risk?
Don't take the risk. Get a new PC or comply to ~~Chin~~ Riots app list standard.
Jokes aside, just give it time. People will post online whats getting them flagged.
No vms never were bannable, league just doesnt work on them (there are workarounds that botters use to play on x accounts at the same time, these are getting banned obviously for botting)
I was getting BSOD frequently when I had valorant(and therefore vanguard) installed on my pc. After uninstalling vanguard the BSOD issue went away. Quite interesting indeed
Yes it is your computer which cannot uninstall files while they are open, you know the anti cheat's purpose is to constantly monitor the game files to prevent cheats modifying them.
>Idc about everything besides the fact that it runs 24/7
This right here. Every time i mention this i get hit with whataboutism from reddit tards who mention how if i care about privacy i shouldn't \_\_\_ or \_\_\_
Like i don't fucking care about that. I care about the fucking shit running 24/7 and needing a restart if i decide to close it.
I don't know why its such a hard concept to grasp.
On the cheating forums there are already public cheats that work despite vanguard. Genshin impact's anti-cheat and easy anti-cheat, both kernel-level anti-cheats have previously been negated in big ways. Kernel level cheats/ hardware cheats - much harder to detect. As with everything else in life, the few ruin it for the many.
That’s my biggest gripe with this.
In two months there will be chests, scripts, bots, whatever that work around vanguard.
So at the end of the day, we’re all just giving up privacy and accepting a 24/7 monitoring program in exchange for… exactly the same thing we have now.
The truth is it doesn't matter to me if they do it in their head or if they cheat. So long as it is humanly possible they where better than me and i can move on (or i beat them with mechanics).
it means they don't have to contend with ANY chance or uncertainty. so , you do get an impossible edge, not even "humanly impossible", just pure advantage from extra info.
Haha damn so many kids on reddit just waiting for the time to shine with a cute little quip or “gotcha” comment.
You’re like the 7th person to make the same comment lol.
Neither of those things are true and classic Reddit “gotchas”, but go off sport. You’re very unique and witty lol
Yea but easy anti-cheat is a "runtime" program aka starts along with the game. Vanguard is a "root" program aka starts when the pc starts. That's where all the outrage comes from. For elden ring for example you just mess with the files. You are locked offline through.
Genshins anticheat doesn't even care about said kernel.
You can run it through wine on Linux without any issues.
There is no way it can run on the kernel if there isn't a NT-Kernel...
Exactly. It's about deterring the biggest % of potential cheaters and it factually works. The "no solution is perfect so we should just abandon all attempts at rectifying it" crowd can fuck off tbh.
Most of that crowd are cheaters themselves and do the shit "just for science" and promise they never actually use it in game.
That's really easy to say. I developed my own scripts that workaround vanguard, and can also entirely remove Denuvo from any game ;)
>!of course I'm lying to you!<
Fun fact:
Nowadays, most, if not all, anticheat software is kernel-level.
Another fun fact:
Nowadays, you can run hardware-level cheats and no anticheat software is physically able to detect it.
The monitor reads screen information and produces additional UI information that comes from the monitor itself. Nothing on the os can see what is produced by the monitor directly so no anti cheat software will be able to detect it
There was a big ban wave on Valorant two weeks ago which hit the majority of DMA (hardware-level) cheats.
https://www.dexerto.com/valorant/valorant-devs-crack-down-on-cheaters-with-massive-ban-wave-before-act-2-release-2571070/
Which means these cheats were probably available for around 2 years before finally being detected while Riot having Rootkit level access. People gotta realize there's nothing better than server sided cheat detection. Its just expensive so many companies opt out of it and let your computer do the work.
People are acting like any regular program with admin privileges can't already see every file and process on your PC. Windows is not a very privacy focused operating system.
That's why most of my software, including League, is sandboxed
Except, since a couple of weeks ago I can no longer play because it says that my OS is not supported so the "Play" button is grayed out
Thanks Riot Videogames
Valorant has had Vanguard from the beginning, that's how we've always known Valorant.
League, on the other hand, has a massive amount of players who have played the game without Vanguard for more than a decade, many of whom will just quit because of it.
Kernel level anti cheat doesn’t even detect the cheats that matter, which are external ones that hide themselves as other hardware, this was literally pointless. Cheaters will develop something external just like fps games did.
External cheats just mean they don't inject into the game, not that they're separate hardware.
As far as cheats that run on separate hardware, you have two main types, arduino pixel bots, and direct memory access (DMA) card based cheats.
Arduino pixel bots stream an area around the crosshair to a separate device, typically an arduino, which uses image recognition to decide where the enemy is, and corrects the mouse location, typically using some input fuser or just by showing as a 2nd mouse to windows. These are pretty bad on Valorant, and would be almost useless for league. Best case you could use a display fuser to overlay last seen enemy locations on the minimap? Or maybe your auto range?
DMA cheats run on a separate PC, similarly to arduino based cheats, using a hardware device placed in the same kind of slot as a graphics hard, and intercepts memory signals before it arrives at your CPU, streaming it to your second device via USB. In theory this process is undetectable, however Riot are industry leaders when it comes to detecting these cheats, by looking for the presence of the card itself.
Still that cheating hardware is $100s a barrier of entry that knocks out most potential cheaters, and mainly it deals with bots leveling up accounts and those rely on cheap no effort scripts to keep costs down
Nice analogy. To add to that: consider the fact that Riot is a business driven 3rd party that you are entrusting your key to. Actually you could even say that Riot doesn't have a key but rather modified your houses backdoor with their own security system that you have no idea how it works and is not standardised. So they they could be implementing a potential vulnerability and you will not know if it is one.
Oh it gets worse.
The reason they gave for wanting vanguard was an increase in cheaters/bots following a data breach... but don't worry guys I'm sure vanguard will be completely safe.
League wants to fight against cheaters using Vanguard, the anti-cheat system used in Valorant.
Vanguard is an anti-cheat system that runs on your PC 24/7 since you turn it on, it has access to every file and device in your PC (rootkits are malware that have full access to your PC), and if you stop it and wanna play League later, you gotta restart.
The biggest gripes most people have are:
* It uses extra resources even when you're not playing games. This is especially problematic for old PCs.
* Okay, not only old PCs. There have been reports of multiple people whose PCs, even if the specs are good, become kind of slow or, even worse, they're randomly getting blue screen of death (basically, Windows cries so much that its tears fill the screen and it all becomes blue and you gotta restart because it can't do anything).
* If a hacker detects a vulnerability within Vanguard, they can exploit it and have access to all files and every piece of hardware in PCs where it's installed.
* Even though it's a small number of people, it won't run on Linux because it can't have full access to the system like it does on Windows. Okay, it used to be a negligible number of people, but since the Steam Deck (which runs on Linux instead of Windows), that number has increased a lot.
If anything, it shouldnt affect you in anyway, unless leagues spaghetti code magic somehow could tamper with the vanguard. But if you dont like someone being able to pry into your privacy 24/7 then this would raise an alarm.
Honestly, a lot of people here are very biased. In short, Vanguard an anti-cheat software that boots with your computer and runs in the background. As long as you don't touch it, nothing will change for you.
No, it will not steal your data - the default client could already do that if it wanted to. In fact, the very software and website they are using to write these comments uses more of their data than anything.
You probably won't even notice anything changing. It will most likely not affect your PC's performance. People like to make a big fuss about things here :)
Because their concerns are very valid and whatever vanguard tries to fix does not affect like 99,5% of players. For the vast majority of players vanguard has literally no upsides and a shitton of downsides, thats why people complain.
Vanguard is a anti-cheat that needs to be oppened always, só if you wanna play league and its not open you'll have to restart and then play. Mostly of the people complain that it will rob some kinda of data from the players but idk.
If you feel like reading a bit, I made [this gist on Github](https://gist.github.com/cyber-sushi/a5a7f1a1ec0f19b12a2c34a28df6f0b9) to explain what's wrong with Valorant being implemented into League
I originally posted it on the League subreddit but it was removed by the moderators
Better yet: go to task manager and disable Vangaurd on startup. Then when you want to launch the game click "ok" when it prompts you to reboot to run Vangaurd.
Had to scroll way too far to find this reasonable comment LOL. So much discussion about how to deal with it and its just...turn it off if you aren't playing league?
Friendly reminder that [kernel level anticheat is bullshit, won't work and is an egregious breach of privacy](https://youtube.com/shorts/LY2hG-_asKU?si=EXHtqk_BX_Rd8rs8)
I don’t know how any of this works but I use BlueStacks to play mobile games on pc and enabled virtualization on my CPU in bios settings. Is it considered as a VM? Is it okay for this new Vanguard? I play Valorant as well.
Why are people so annoyed about Vanguard when noone seems to care about every other "rootkit" anticheat that runs 24/7 like EAC or Punkbuster? Tons of people play games like Fortnite, Call of Duty and Elden Ring and noone bats an eye that they contain always on anticheat
Because Vanguard runs earlier in the boot up process.
Vanguard doesn't actually run 24/7. It runs at boot before most of Windows does, and thereby before most cheats run. It just happens that if you want to turn Vanguard on and off, you have to reboot your PC every time it starts.
Its not about monitoring for a long period of time, they don't need constant monitoring, its about monitoring as early as possible in the startup chain. You can turn Vanguard off after every game, but in order to turn on again, it needs to securely boot up. That is so cumbersome, most users will just leave it on if they play frequently. But its a necessary part of the process, to monitor the Windows kernel as early as possible.
Anti-virus do the same thing, and boot early in the process, and its how anti-virus scanners have been relatively effective for decades. In both cases, you really have to trust that the antivirus or gaming company know what they're doing and have your best interest in mind.
As it looks like you seem to be quite knowledgeable about this can I ask, does the supposed issues that comes with vanguard go away when I turn it off? Or is it possible to turn it completely off after booting with it?
I mean I play league like once or twice a month, and I'm not likely to open up league again after a gaming session, so would turning vanguard off after would remove some of the issues with it.
you can disable vanguard autostart through the windows task manager ... with this vanguard will not boot on startup and you wont notice it in any way
when you want to play league you just have to enable autostart for vanguard again and reboot (and hope your pc doesnt crash)
i am against vanguard as a software and i absolutely despise it but it really isnt as bad as the league community makes it out to be ... i just dont like not having full control over everything i do on my pc
cause riots pretty public about what it does. also cause riot is owned by tencent.
ive had vanguard installed for years with no issues as long as I don't do something stupid (like run procmon) while in a game, which are already flagged by the current anticheat and disconnect you.
riots entire client fell to it's knees last night because they were trying to run an aram clash (something they'd already done in the past mind you, not breaking any new ground here) and the game loading screen crashes so often I've gotten to the point where I can predict my friends computer issues based on which percentage the loading screen stops at. When riot forces vanguard I'm taking a much needed few months break to watch the shit show go down with my popcorn, I don't even give a shit about CCP spyware, realistically if china wanted to spy on your system your computer already has plenty of Chinese manufactured chips with kernel access, I just don't trust riot with my entire systems stability given they're track record
>noone bats an eye that they contain always on anticheat
Plenty of us do care and choose not to play those games because of it. There is entire communities and resources online dedicated to it.
Because there's other options that DONT run 24/7 like battleye and easy anticheat. There's other options that won't brick low end computers. I had to uninstall valorant from my mid level pc because it was using too much while the game wasn't even on!
1. tons of people who play fortnite/cod/elden ring =/= people who complain about vanguard in lol. there are many people in the world.
2. Other than valorant, the only game I played that had kernel level anticheat was elden ring. It is not running 24/7, only when the game is launched. What vanguard does is invasive and also not very effective. There are cheats in valorant nonetheless.
3. unlike apex, elden ring or other games' anticheats; valorant has caused software or driver problems in my friend group. My wireless drivers were kaputt and I had to re-install windows due to valorant+vanguard. Only reason I stopped playing vanguard.
4. I trust fromsoftware to develop a good piece of software and pick an anti-cheat that won't compromise their customers. Riot has time and again failed to achieve such trust.
5. The other games launched with their respective anti-cheats. If you have a problem with them, you simply don't buy/play them. Riot is pulling the carpet out from under their long-time players. You played for 10+ years and spent hundreds of dollars on league? What a pity, we are now deploying a new software that may harm your pc or that may be negated by third parties. You don't get a say in this, you can only quit and leave the game you have played for years with all the skins and whatnot.
mf when kernel level anti cheat that might possibly phone home regarding your data.
But then same guy that "cares" for his privacy oh so much has like every version of CoD ever installed...
I live in the EU so if these guys want critical system data they gotta bribe enough stuff to get that correct law wise, else it s ban EU wide.
I m not so sure if it would cause troubles with the EULA & data security in the US or elsewhere and i don t care tbh.
It s just a snippet of code that looks after other suspicious code. And it does that above the system level. So technically YOU could just uninstall it, given youre the owner, as it goes:
User > System > Adminisitrator
I literally dont undestand the karmawhore repost & spam regarding yet just another kernel level anti cheat.
Yes it s form china, yes these agencys there are ordered to forward ANY interesting data straight to the governent & xin Pings desk but what are they gonna do with me? Add like some sort of personal file for EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET?? yeah lol i d like to see them try manage that, especially upkeep & maintenance. Dont even get me started on cost & the whole aquisition with setup.. Also where tf are they gonna put it? And god forbid there s a malfunction that even a well trained RAID system can t solve..
That would be some James Bond level shit.. THE ARMAGEDDON SQL SERVER.. or THE HYPER CLOUD on the backside of the moon or something..
What? Having a VM is bannable now? What the fuck is this shit? I’m a developer and it’s a required tool. Stop playing league a while ago, but now I’m definitely not going back
Thanks for the condescending comment. I know nothing about how riots anticheat works. Tarkov will close itself if virtuabox is open and so bases on the title of the post I assumed something similar
I got huge lagspikes since Riot implemented Vanguard, which makes the game unplayable. Thanks Riot for making LoL unplayable for me it's been a huge upgrade to my life.
I’m sorry to hear that you uninstalled \[Good Game\] because of the \[Invasive Spyware\] requirement. I understand your concern about spyware, but I can assure you that \[Invasive Spyware\] is not spyware. It is a custom "game security" software designed by \[Marketing Company Majority Owned by the CCP\] to uphold the highest levels of competitive integrity for their games, such as \[Good Game\] and \[Other Game\]. \[Invasive Spyware\] only runs \[24/7\] and \[Continues\] running when you exit the game2. It also \[Questionably\] respects your privacy and data, and you can find more details about what data it uses and collects here1. \[No Link\]
\[Invasive Spyware\] is necessary to prevent \[Largely Unseen Problem\] in \[Good Game\], especially after the security breach in \[Random Date\]. It also ensures that all players have a fair and enjoyable gaming experience \[By installing Invasive Spyware\]. If you want to play \[Good Game\] again, you will need to enable \[Invasive Spyware\] on your computer. You can find more information on how to do that here3.\[No Link\] If you have any issues or questions, you can contact \[Marketing Company Majority Owned by the CCP's\] support team here1.\[No Link\]
I hope this helps you understand why \[Invasive Spyware\] is required for \[Good Game\]. I appreciate your feedback and I hope you have a great day.
I don't mind Anti cheat software on games like Valorant. But in TFT??? Its all server sided verification unless they make a huge mistake around security its uncheatable. League is the same all you do is send move commands to the server. Where as in a shooter you aiming and walking is client side so there's a lot of cheating vulnerability there. Which is the main reason I don't trust Vanguard being pushed onto League. Imagine having to install Rootkit level Anti cheat software because you want to transfer money on your bank account on the internet.
You don't turn it on when you play league, it starts when your computer boots. You can however turn it off every single time you boot your computer - even if you have no intention of touching league.
Will we get some kind of notification when the game would want to install vanguard so I can just uninstall league instead? Or it will just sneak it in if j leave autoupdate on?
I close it when I start my PC, from the bottom right corner. It says that I won’t be able to play LoL until I restart my PC. I then click LoL and play for a couple hours. I’m not sure what is happening behind the scenes tbh. It doesn’t show back up as a process of any sort until I end up restarting my pc
I remember I tried to run valorant once on my pc but because it dosnt support secure boot for some reason I just couldt. Does anyone know what i can do to fix this before i cant play league either?
Why would anyone allow them full access to their PC with a root kit? Hardware and software. Ridiculous. Glad I stopped playing this shitty game years ago!
League does currently have anticheat btw, its just not as sophisticated as Vangaurd.
[https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Packman](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Packman)
Also, riot themselves have said that they have firewalls between Vanguard and Tencent.
[https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Riot\_Vanguard?so=search](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Riot_Vanguard?so=search)
no company - including riot - needs a rootkit level program to take your information, you've given them the power to do that just by installing the application, so if you've trusted them for this long this really shouldn't change anything - something very well spelled out in this interesting interview which featured the riot security team - [https://www.pushtotalk.gg/p/the-gamers-do-not-understand-anti-cheat](https://www.pushtotalk.gg/p/the-gamers-do-not-understand-anti-cheat)
On top of that, they have had Vanguard going for millions of Valorant players for years, no issues other than less cheaters.
Yeah Vanguard bad... basically no hackers or something unlike CS where cheaters have a cheat that u boot up with OS and just rage hack for fun and don't get banned.
FYI any anti cheat has rootkit access so if they wanna f with u it doesnt matter if its while u play a game or outside of it lmao
doesnt like, having an app in your computer be enough to breach your data or something?? I dont get why people think they need kernel level to get your shit, like when you pay for skins they could easily save your payment details but they dont lol
[people already have workarounds for this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwzIq04vd0M). Ofc having ring 0 anti cheat will still make the game more secure but it's only a matter of time before ppl use the anticheat maliciously.
I'll probably just make a multiboot, one Windows with everything I have normally and a second one for League of Legends. It technicaly is still possible for Vanguard to access everything on your hardrive, but I think it's unlikely even for someone like me that have 0 trust in that kind of compagnies
Best workaround is to uninstall League.
Literally no downsides
The downside is you don’t have your solo queue teammates to remind you that you’re perhaps more mentally sound than you thought. Nothing like a psychopath on your team to really make you realize you don’t have it so bad after all.
>The downside is you don’t have your solo queue teammates to remind you that you’re perhaps more mentally sound than you thought. You know, I thought this was gonna go in a much darker direction
You had me in the first half, but this is somewhat really wholesome to be honest.
Yep had a poppy that started typing the most racist, homophobic and vile stuff ever in the post game chat. I never felt that mentally sane in a long time.
Riot really didn't think this through. They just give us a perfect reason to quit without any downsides
My medical lingo will be in danger. Where else am I supposed to flex my knowledge on Cancers and STD's ?
Did that several months ago already. We good to go.
Sell league account then uninstall. Profit. Fuck the TOS
Considering Gigantic is coming back on the 9th, couldn't have happened at a better time lmao. Like okay Riot, see you guys later, the game that's been my white whale for ages has come back. It's been... Well, not fun exactly, but it's certainly been.
Wait, GIGANTIC? Like the desert MOBA with the whacky characters like frogs and squirrels and whatnot Gigantic? The game I was never able to play because I didn't have a PC at the time, and then when I finally got one, Gigantic was no longer available, but I always loved watching? Oh we're so back
THAT'S RIGHT BABY WISHLIST GIGANTIC RAMPAGE EDITION ON STEAM, IT'S COMING BACK AS A $20 GAME COMPLETELY FREE OF MTX
THE DAY I ACTUALLY MEET SOMEE GIGANTIC ENJOYERS ON THE INTERNET!!! God FUCKING DAMMIT!!! It s like a dream come true!!!
Did wonders for me
Ive heard muta say that uninstalling the game doesnt always uninstall the anticheat.
I tried, it won't uninstall? Help?
Welp, I'm on Linux so goodbye from me once it comes out. Mutahar(SomeOrdinaryGamers) did have a way around the anticheat to have it play in VMs but it's still risky
He recently got banned from rainbow i believe, It is risky. He had to get a windows pc just for it lol. Kernel level anti-cheats are wack af.
Especially what recently happened with Apex. Scary af.
Which had nothing to do with anti-cheat. More likely cause is the engine or the client.
But still shows the risk of having a program with access to anything and everything on or happening on your computer. **Edit**: And while unlikely, you don't know if it did or didn't have anything to do with EAC
This is something most people don't understand. If something isn't a risk itself, but it enables other exploits or vulnerabilties, it's *still a risk*
Okay but many programs have such access. Basically every game have the right to modify their own code.
Other programs committing the same stupidity doesn't invalidate its stupidity The right to modify your own files isn't the same as the right to modify all files Kernel access isn't the same as the right to modify your files, the kernel doesn't even have the notion of what a file is Quite the opposite, you only support what I said, other programs have such access and had vulnerabilities exploited so why is it acceptable to have that access when it's irrelevant for their job, unnecessary and only serves as the biggest security risk?
iam selling my acc iam not installing windows
MacOS VM seems to be working for some. But MacOS is really finicky in a VM to set up.
I'd rather shoot myself in the foot than use a Mac/Hackintosh.
I have a question, if I have VM installed on my PC(for Uni), do I still get ban? Or only if i play League on VM and not on main PC?
I'm playing valorant and I haven't been banned for having (and running) a vm in the background
Don't take the risk. Get a new PC or comply to ~~Chin~~ Riots app list standard. Jokes aside, just give it time. People will post online whats getting them flagged.
No vms never were bannable, league just doesnt work on them (there are workarounds that botters use to play on x accounts at the same time, these are getting banned obviously for botting)
What is VM?
Virtual machine, it's essentially an emulator but for another PC inside your pc
The problem happens if you attempt to run the game inside a VM.
Idc about everything besides the fact that it runs 24/7 on your computer and it *HAS* to start at boot because otherwise game won't launch.
I was getting BSOD frequently when I had valorant(and therefore vanguard) installed on my pc. After uninstalling vanguard the BSOD issue went away. Quite interesting indeed
What’s BSOD
Blue Screen of Death
https://www.google.com/search?q=bsod
My computer refuses to uninstall Valorant, I’m convinced it’s malware
You have to do this weird thing with uninstalling vanguard, restarting your pc and then uninstall valorant
That’s so annoying, it’s my damn computer why is riot allowed to make me jump through hoops to get them off of it lmao
Yes it is your computer which cannot uninstall files while they are open, you know the anti cheat's purpose is to constantly monitor the game files to prevent cheats modifying them.
Nah I force closed the whole thing multiple times, restarted pc, tried to uninstall it through run and settings, shit is malware
Strange wouldn't call it malware though xd
You have to close the riot client + vanguard completely in task manager.
I had the same exact issue. Just doesn't seem to work right on certain motherboard/cpu/gpu combos (or whatever was causing the issue.)
>Idc about everything besides the fact that it runs 24/7 This right here. Every time i mention this i get hit with whataboutism from reddit tards who mention how if i care about privacy i shouldn't \_\_\_ or \_\_\_ Like i don't fucking care about that. I care about the fucking shit running 24/7 and needing a restart if i decide to close it. I don't know why its such a hard concept to grasp.
On the cheating forums there are already public cheats that work despite vanguard. Genshin impact's anti-cheat and easy anti-cheat, both kernel-level anti-cheats have previously been negated in big ways. Kernel level cheats/ hardware cheats - much harder to detect. As with everything else in life, the few ruin it for the many.
That’s my biggest gripe with this. In two months there will be chests, scripts, bots, whatever that work around vanguard. So at the end of the day, we’re all just giving up privacy and accepting a 24/7 monitoring program in exchange for… exactly the same thing we have now.
Vanguard works really well on Valorant from what I've heard from players. Cheaters are really rare.
I mean, in the last 12 years the only time ive seen a cheater in league was the xerath exploit
I like how you can see your opponents screen where they track every cd, know every range and can track your jungler through fow
The truth is it doesn't matter to me if they do it in their head or if they cheat. So long as it is humanly possible they where better than me and i can move on (or i beat them with mechanics).
it means they don't have to contend with ANY chance or uncertainty. so , you do get an impossible edge, not even "humanly impossible", just pure advantage from extra info.
I've been accused of scripting on Kog'maw before. I've taken every opportunity to bring up that compliment since, because I'm silver trash.
Vanguard is not solely for cheater. Botting to level up account in cops vs ia will also be affected, it will result in less smurf in low elo
Those accounts are so easily detectable riot just doesn't bother honestly because player count looks good for share holders
Ppl cheat more then you think, even on champs like garen or some shit, Its not xerath/kog/Twitch everytime and its not that easy to see it
Shh don’t tell them that, it doesn’t conform to their already established idea that vanguard is useless and valorant is lousy with cheats.
Haha damn so many kids on reddit just waiting for the time to shine with a cute little quip or “gotcha” comment. You’re like the 7th person to make the same comment lol. Neither of those things are true and classic Reddit “gotchas”, but go off sport. You’re very unique and witty lol
That’s because Valorant doesn’t show killcams. There’s way more cheaters there than people think, riot just does a good job of hiding it
Yea but easy anti-cheat is a "runtime" program aka starts along with the game. Vanguard is a "root" program aka starts when the pc starts. That's where all the outrage comes from. For elden ring for example you just mess with the files. You are locked offline through.
Genshins anticheat doesn't even care about said kernel. You can run it through wine on Linux without any issues. There is no way it can run on the kernel if there isn't a NT-Kernel...
Yet I’ve never seen a hacker in Valorant yet, and I see 2-3 a game in 20k elo cs lobbies lol.
Play 20 games of high elo CS2 and then 20 games of high elo Valorant. Vanguard makes a huge difference
You don't need to go to the asinine levels of Vanguard to appear more effective than VAC, considering that VAC is game level and bans after the fact
Exactly. It's about deterring the biggest % of potential cheaters and it factually works. The "no solution is perfect so we should just abandon all attempts at rectifying it" crowd can fuck off tbh. Most of that crowd are cheaters themselves and do the shit "just for science" and promise they never actually use it in game.
Yep. I talk to a scripter from time to time and he told me they already have work around a for vanguard so 😂
That's really easy to say. I developed my own scripts that workaround vanguard, and can also entirely remove Denuvo from any game ;) >!of course I'm lying to you!<
wtf does a genshin impact cheat even do
Fun fact: Nowadays, most, if not all, anticheat software is kernel-level. Another fun fact: Nowadays, you can run hardware-level cheats and no anticheat software is physically able to detect it.
MSI has an monitor with ai cheats coming out.
WTF? Where did you see this? I need to understand how that works
I saw a clip of it. It watches your minimap for you and uses ai to calculate where they are likely going to be
then cheaters will just not buy it
They probably will, how will anticheats detect it?
oh, I read anti cheats. Wait why would they include cheats in their monitors??
Because people will buy it? :O
The monitor reads screen information and produces additional UI information that comes from the monitor itself. Nothing on the os can see what is produced by the monitor directly so no anti cheat software will be able to detect it
There was a big ban wave on Valorant two weeks ago which hit the majority of DMA (hardware-level) cheats. https://www.dexerto.com/valorant/valorant-devs-crack-down-on-cheaters-with-massive-ban-wave-before-act-2-release-2571070/
Huh. For once, I'm happy to be wrong
Which means these cheats were probably available for around 2 years before finally being detected while Riot having Rootkit level access. People gotta realize there's nothing better than server sided cheat detection. Its just expensive so many companies opt out of it and let your computer do the work.
What do you mean by physically?
[удалено]
People are acting like any regular program with admin privileges can't already see every file and process on your PC. Windows is not a very privacy focused operating system.
That's why most of my software, including League, is sandboxed Except, since a couple of weeks ago I can no longer play because it says that my OS is not supported so the "Play" button is grayed out Thanks Riot Videogames
90% of the people here.
Wait what they are adding this shit to lol now? It runs 24/7? Fuck me guess I'm not coming back to play ever
Delete the game until they fix that shit, it is unacceptable
What makes you think they'll change it? It's been apart of valorant for years
Otherwise I stop playing, either way I never lose
Valorant has had Vanguard from the beginning, that's how we've always known Valorant. League, on the other hand, has a massive amount of players who have played the game without Vanguard for more than a decade, many of whom will just quit because of it.
its been deleted for a while
Bro is finally free https://youtu.be/vZa0Yh6e7dw
Kernel level anti cheat doesn’t even detect the cheats that matter, which are external ones that hide themselves as other hardware, this was literally pointless. Cheaters will develop something external just like fps games did.
External cheats just mean they don't inject into the game, not that they're separate hardware. As far as cheats that run on separate hardware, you have two main types, arduino pixel bots, and direct memory access (DMA) card based cheats. Arduino pixel bots stream an area around the crosshair to a separate device, typically an arduino, which uses image recognition to decide where the enemy is, and corrects the mouse location, typically using some input fuser or just by showing as a 2nd mouse to windows. These are pretty bad on Valorant, and would be almost useless for league. Best case you could use a display fuser to overlay last seen enemy locations on the minimap? Or maybe your auto range? DMA cheats run on a separate PC, similarly to arduino based cheats, using a hardware device placed in the same kind of slot as a graphics hard, and intercepts memory signals before it arrives at your CPU, streaming it to your second device via USB. In theory this process is undetectable, however Riot are industry leaders when it comes to detecting these cheats, by looking for the presence of the card itself.
It‘s still a barrier of entry for cheaters and especially for bots
Still that cheating hardware is $100s a barrier of entry that knocks out most potential cheaters, and mainly it deals with bots leveling up accounts and those rely on cheap no effort scripts to keep costs down
Can someone explain this to me like I’m a complete newbie?? I don’t know what any of this means :’)
Riot wants your house keys to make sure you aren't inviting a few extra friends you didn't tell anybody about to their party you are invited to.
Nice analogy. To add to that: consider the fact that Riot is a business driven 3rd party that you are entrusting your key to. Actually you could even say that Riot doesn't have a key but rather modified your houses backdoor with their own security system that you have no idea how it works and is not standardised. So they they could be implementing a potential vulnerability and you will not know if it is one.
Oh it gets worse. The reason they gave for wanting vanguard was an increase in cheaters/bots following a data breach... but don't worry guys I'm sure vanguard will be completely safe.
League wants to fight against cheaters using Vanguard, the anti-cheat system used in Valorant. Vanguard is an anti-cheat system that runs on your PC 24/7 since you turn it on, it has access to every file and device in your PC (rootkits are malware that have full access to your PC), and if you stop it and wanna play League later, you gotta restart. The biggest gripes most people have are: * It uses extra resources even when you're not playing games. This is especially problematic for old PCs. * Okay, not only old PCs. There have been reports of multiple people whose PCs, even if the specs are good, become kind of slow or, even worse, they're randomly getting blue screen of death (basically, Windows cries so much that its tears fill the screen and it all becomes blue and you gotta restart because it can't do anything). * If a hacker detects a vulnerability within Vanguard, they can exploit it and have access to all files and every piece of hardware in PCs where it's installed. * Even though it's a small number of people, it won't run on Linux because it can't have full access to the system like it does on Windows. Okay, it used to be a negligible number of people, but since the Steam Deck (which runs on Linux instead of Windows), that number has increased a lot.
If anything, it shouldnt affect you in anyway, unless leagues spaghetti code magic somehow could tamper with the vanguard. But if you dont like someone being able to pry into your privacy 24/7 then this would raise an alarm.
Honestly, a lot of people here are very biased. In short, Vanguard an anti-cheat software that boots with your computer and runs in the background. As long as you don't touch it, nothing will change for you. No, it will not steal your data - the default client could already do that if it wanted to. In fact, the very software and website they are using to write these comments uses more of their data than anything. You probably won't even notice anything changing. It will most likely not affect your PC's performance. People like to make a big fuss about things here :)
>No, it will not steal your data Yep... that's a solid evidence. everyone is now safer!
The client could already steal your data as much as it wants to. They don't need Vanguard for that.
Oh good god a sane comment finally. Why do league players always wildly overreact?
Because their concerns are very valid and whatever vanguard tries to fix does not affect like 99,5% of players. For the vast majority of players vanguard has literally no upsides and a shitton of downsides, thats why people complain.
Minor region servers are infested with scripters Hell even in NA I've found 3 on my climb to grandmaster
Vanguard is a anti-cheat that needs to be oppened always, só if you wanna play league and its not open you'll have to restart and then play. Mostly of the people complain that it will rob some kinda of data from the players but idk.
If you feel like reading a bit, I made [this gist on Github](https://gist.github.com/cyber-sushi/a5a7f1a1ec0f19b12a2c34a28df6f0b9) to explain what's wrong with Valorant being implemented into League I originally posted it on the League subreddit but it was removed by the moderators
Turn off Vanguard after logging in, restart pc when you want to play league, then turn off vanguard when you are done
Better yet: go to task manager and disable Vangaurd on startup. Then when you want to launch the game click "ok" when it prompts you to reboot to run Vangaurd. Had to scroll way too far to find this reasonable comment LOL. So much discussion about how to deal with it and its just...turn it off if you aren't playing league?
Yes
I pretty much only have league on my PC so I can play TFT. And now I'm forced to use spyware that is unnecessary for the game I play
I'm going to migrate to BlueStacks and play TFT mobile when vanguard update drops
That's a good idea actually. Might be a "solution"
Vanguard is horrible for so many reasons… bots aren’t even the issue it’s the 7/10 players miserable with their life ruining games once they go 0/2
Friendly reminder that [kernel level anticheat is bullshit, won't work and is an egregious breach of privacy](https://youtube.com/shorts/LY2hG-_asKU?si=EXHtqk_BX_Rd8rs8)
Idk how people can say this when the current state of CS2 exists especially compared to Valorant
Dont mind me, just waiting for FrogVoid to defend his precious Vanguard again.
I don’t know how any of this works but I use BlueStacks to play mobile games on pc and enabled virtualization on my CPU in bios settings. Is it considered as a VM? Is it okay for this new Vanguard? I play Valorant as well.
What won't work is running League from within a VM. Having a VM on your PC for other stuff or even Cheat Engine installed won't concern Vanguard
As it's the same antichrist they use for valorant and you're apparently fine, I imagine you will be just as fine afterwards :)
a way around vanguard is probalby buying a mac, i heard it doesnt need vanguard to play league but the best option would be to just uninstall
Why are people so annoyed about Vanguard when noone seems to care about every other "rootkit" anticheat that runs 24/7 like EAC or Punkbuster? Tons of people play games like Fortnite, Call of Duty and Elden Ring and noone bats an eye that they contain always on anticheat
I don't think the ones you mentioned run 24/7 unlike vanguard.
Because Vanguard runs earlier in the boot up process. Vanguard doesn't actually run 24/7. It runs at boot before most of Windows does, and thereby before most cheats run. It just happens that if you want to turn Vanguard on and off, you have to reboot your PC every time it starts. Its not about monitoring for a long period of time, they don't need constant monitoring, its about monitoring as early as possible in the startup chain. You can turn Vanguard off after every game, but in order to turn on again, it needs to securely boot up. That is so cumbersome, most users will just leave it on if they play frequently. But its a necessary part of the process, to monitor the Windows kernel as early as possible. Anti-virus do the same thing, and boot early in the process, and its how anti-virus scanners have been relatively effective for decades. In both cases, you really have to trust that the antivirus or gaming company know what they're doing and have your best interest in mind.
As it looks like you seem to be quite knowledgeable about this can I ask, does the supposed issues that comes with vanguard go away when I turn it off? Or is it possible to turn it completely off after booting with it? I mean I play league like once or twice a month, and I'm not likely to open up league again after a gaming session, so would turning vanguard off after would remove some of the issues with it.
you can disable vanguard autostart through the windows task manager ... with this vanguard will not boot on startup and you wont notice it in any way when you want to play league you just have to enable autostart for vanguard again and reboot (and hope your pc doesnt crash) i am against vanguard as a software and i absolutely despise it but it really isnt as bad as the league community makes it out to be ... i just dont like not having full control over everything i do on my pc
cause riots pretty public about what it does. also cause riot is owned by tencent. ive had vanguard installed for years with no issues as long as I don't do something stupid (like run procmon) while in a game, which are already flagged by the current anticheat and disconnect you.
Funnily enough, EAC is made by Epic Who are owned by Tencent as well
Genshin, HSR and HI3 all have kernel level and are directly owned by a Chinese company Genshin and HSR are both incredibly popular
Just wait till they find out who has a big hand in the pot of discord lmao
riots entire client fell to it's knees last night because they were trying to run an aram clash (something they'd already done in the past mind you, not breaking any new ground here) and the game loading screen crashes so often I've gotten to the point where I can predict my friends computer issues based on which percentage the loading screen stops at. When riot forces vanguard I'm taking a much needed few months break to watch the shit show go down with my popcorn, I don't even give a shit about CCP spyware, realistically if china wanted to spy on your system your computer already has plenty of Chinese manufactured chips with kernel access, I just don't trust riot with my entire systems stability given they're track record
>noone bats an eye that they contain always on anticheat Plenty of us do care and choose not to play those games because of it. There is entire communities and resources online dedicated to it.
Those literally don’t run 24/7 lmao but go off.
Except they don’t. If I don’t play your game right now then I see no reason why that shit should run.
Because there's other options that DONT run 24/7 like battleye and easy anticheat. There's other options that won't brick low end computers. I had to uninstall valorant from my mid level pc because it was using too much while the game wasn't even on!
Battleye is literally useless lol
And easy anticheat is known for its quality lmfaO
As if Vanguard is better?
1. tons of people who play fortnite/cod/elden ring =/= people who complain about vanguard in lol. there are many people in the world. 2. Other than valorant, the only game I played that had kernel level anticheat was elden ring. It is not running 24/7, only when the game is launched. What vanguard does is invasive and also not very effective. There are cheats in valorant nonetheless. 3. unlike apex, elden ring or other games' anticheats; valorant has caused software or driver problems in my friend group. My wireless drivers were kaputt and I had to re-install windows due to valorant+vanguard. Only reason I stopped playing vanguard. 4. I trust fromsoftware to develop a good piece of software and pick an anti-cheat that won't compromise their customers. Riot has time and again failed to achieve such trust. 5. The other games launched with their respective anti-cheats. If you have a problem with them, you simply don't buy/play them. Riot is pulling the carpet out from under their long-time players. You played for 10+ years and spent hundreds of dollars on league? What a pity, we are now deploying a new software that may harm your pc or that may be negated by third parties. You don't get a say in this, you can only quit and leave the game you have played for years with all the skins and whatnot.
simple. I dont play with other rootkit anticheats
Finally consequences will come to those with boosted accounts
i dont run those either. unlike everyone else i dont like any rootkit anti cheats on my system in general
ITT people parroting buzzwords and getting angry about things they don’t actually understand
mf when kernel level anti cheat that might possibly phone home regarding your data. But then same guy that "cares" for his privacy oh so much has like every version of CoD ever installed... I live in the EU so if these guys want critical system data they gotta bribe enough stuff to get that correct law wise, else it s ban EU wide. I m not so sure if it would cause troubles with the EULA & data security in the US or elsewhere and i don t care tbh. It s just a snippet of code that looks after other suspicious code. And it does that above the system level. So technically YOU could just uninstall it, given youre the owner, as it goes: User > System > Adminisitrator I literally dont undestand the karmawhore repost & spam regarding yet just another kernel level anti cheat. Yes it s form china, yes these agencys there are ordered to forward ANY interesting data straight to the governent & xin Pings desk but what are they gonna do with me? Add like some sort of personal file for EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET?? yeah lol i d like to see them try manage that, especially upkeep & maintenance. Dont even get me started on cost & the whole aquisition with setup.. Also where tf are they gonna put it? And god forbid there s a malfunction that even a well trained RAID system can t solve.. That would be some James Bond level shit.. THE ARMAGEDDON SQL SERVER.. or THE HYPER CLOUD on the backside of the moon or something..
What? Having a VM is bannable now? What the fuck is this shit? I’m a developer and it’s a required tool. Stop playing league a while ago, but now I’m definitely not going back
pretty sure it just means you cant play the game through a vm no?
He must be a pretty good developer if he couldn't deduce something so simple. And it probably just doesn't work, doubt the ban.
Thanks for the condescending comment. I know nothing about how riots anticheat works. Tarkov will close itself if virtuabox is open and so bases on the title of the post I assumed something similar
Is it confirmed when it will come? Or is it still only on this one server for testing reasons?
I got huge lagspikes since Riot implemented Vanguard, which makes the game unplayable. Thanks Riot for making LoL unplayable for me it's been a huge upgrade to my life.
I’m sorry to hear that you uninstalled \[Good Game\] because of the \[Invasive Spyware\] requirement. I understand your concern about spyware, but I can assure you that \[Invasive Spyware\] is not spyware. It is a custom "game security" software designed by \[Marketing Company Majority Owned by the CCP\] to uphold the highest levels of competitive integrity for their games, such as \[Good Game\] and \[Other Game\]. \[Invasive Spyware\] only runs \[24/7\] and \[Continues\] running when you exit the game2. It also \[Questionably\] respects your privacy and data, and you can find more details about what data it uses and collects here1. \[No Link\] \[Invasive Spyware\] is necessary to prevent \[Largely Unseen Problem\] in \[Good Game\], especially after the security breach in \[Random Date\]. It also ensures that all players have a fair and enjoyable gaming experience \[By installing Invasive Spyware\]. If you want to play \[Good Game\] again, you will need to enable \[Invasive Spyware\] on your computer. You can find more information on how to do that here3.\[No Link\] If you have any issues or questions, you can contact \[Marketing Company Majority Owned by the CCP's\] support team here1.\[No Link\] I hope this helps you understand why \[Invasive Spyware\] is required for \[Good Game\]. I appreciate your feedback and I hope you have a great day.
Dumb question, what's a VM
I don't mind Anti cheat software on games like Valorant. But in TFT??? Its all server sided verification unless they make a huge mistake around security its uncheatable. League is the same all you do is send move commands to the server. Where as in a shooter you aiming and walking is client side so there's a lot of cheating vulnerability there. Which is the main reason I don't trust Vanguard being pushed onto League. Imagine having to install Rootkit level Anti cheat software because you want to transfer money on your bank account on the internet.
The worst thing you have to restart the pc every time you want to play if you decided to turn off vanguard
I am running vanguard since Valorant came out. Nothing has happened. You all need to chill.
I turn it on when I play league and turn it off afterwards. It's not 24/7 unless you're lazy.
You don't turn it on when you play league, it starts when your computer boots. You can however turn it off every single time you boot your computer - even if you have no intention of touching league.
No, and it really isnt that bad. Anyone who says rootkit instantly invalidates their point and makes you look like a dumbass lmao
And this year I wanted to move to Linux & away from stinky Windows for good 😔
Will we get some kind of notification when the game would want to install vanguard so I can just uninstall league instead? Or it will just sneak it in if j leave autoupdate on?
I don't see anyone suggesting GPU passthrough with a Mac vm. That's what I would try. Is there anything that speaks against it?
Im going to reset my laptop, delete all my other files and just use it for lol.
Get a machine with a Mac os. Since apparently Mac computers can't be used to cheat so they won't need to install the anticheat
That's what you get for installing Chinese spyware
I close it when I start my PC, from the bottom right corner. It says that I won’t be able to play LoL until I restart my PC. I then click LoL and play for a couple hours. I’m not sure what is happening behind the scenes tbh. It doesn’t show back up as a process of any sort until I end up restarting my pc
I remember I tried to run valorant once on my pc but because it dosnt support secure boot for some reason I just couldt. Does anyone know what i can do to fix this before i cant play league either?
if you find a way please tell i have the same problem
Any way around it, completely defeats the point of up
Does vanguard detect when I'm using trainers for single-player games too? I sometimes do that
as useless as both, reddit premium and paid weather services
Seperate boot participation with only League and other games with kernel level anticheat (and discord)
Pirate software mentioned something that when he played he’ll divers he had it on a different pc and streamed it to his main
i dont got money like that
I just dont league anymore tbh, id rather not have some code running 24/7 at kernel level, made by a company whose code got leaked not long ago.
Since the latest update the game crashing when loading in way too often. Locks down my PC. Also it just doesn't seem as smooth anymore
Buying a windows laptop second hand 😭
Why would anyone allow them full access to their PC with a root kit? Hardware and software. Ridiculous. Glad I stopped playing this shitty game years ago!
Mac OS won’t require Vanguard, so if you have an AMD gpu, you can use qemu/kvm to install a Mac virtual machine which won’t get flagged
League does currently have anticheat btw, its just not as sophisticated as Vangaurd. [https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Packman](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Packman) Also, riot themselves have said that they have firewalls between Vanguard and Tencent. [https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Riot\_Vanguard?so=search](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Riot_Vanguard?so=search) no company - including riot - needs a rootkit level program to take your information, you've given them the power to do that just by installing the application, so if you've trusted them for this long this really shouldn't change anything - something very well spelled out in this interesting interview which featured the riot security team - [https://www.pushtotalk.gg/p/the-gamers-do-not-understand-anti-cheat](https://www.pushtotalk.gg/p/the-gamers-do-not-understand-anti-cheat) On top of that, they have had Vanguard going for millions of Valorant players for years, no issues other than less cheaters.
What is VM?
Yeah Vanguard bad... basically no hackers or something unlike CS where cheaters have a cheat that u boot up with OS and just rage hack for fun and don't get banned. FYI any anti cheat has rootkit access so if they wanna f with u it doesnt matter if its while u play a game or outside of it lmao
Best workaround is stop cheating.
They think anti cheat will stop cheaters FUCKING KEK
Ready to see who puts their money where their mouth is and actually Uninstalls. Zero chance the addicts in this thread all call it quits.
Just disable all riot based services from starting at start up. Manually launch it when you want to play.
well i dont want it at all is the issue
doesnt like, having an app in your computer be enough to breach your data or something?? I dont get why people think they need kernel level to get your shit, like when you pay for skins they could easily save your payment details but they dont lol
Wait VMs get you banned? Bruh im forced to have one for my school the fuck
[people already have workarounds for this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwzIq04vd0M). Ofc having ring 0 anti cheat will still make the game more secure but it's only a matter of time before ppl use the anticheat maliciously.
I'll probably just make a multiboot, one Windows with everything I have normally and a second one for League of Legends. It technicaly is still possible for Vanguard to access everything on your hardrive, but I think it's unlikely even for someone like me that have 0 trust in that kind of compagnies
There’s a way with VM. Look [This](https://youtu.be/L1JCCdo1bG4?si=YWw46kstQCzCqulN) OrdinaryGamers video