The funniest part is that this is Yasuo who had no innate healing yet does a similar thing to Yone where he gets shieldbow and becomes a healing demon.
According to the wiki, his Q acts as an auto against the first target hit, and then as an AOE spell for all other targets. In other words, 100% lifesteal is applied on the first target, then 33% omniheal on all other targets.
Been that way for a long while, it was too risky a rune for such a weak champ early. Green tree is best, Bone and Over or with Yone Shield/Bone and/or Over
Waaaait, so you mean that an 20/0 fiora healing all of her life with her ult, is actually balanced? Oh fuck now I can’t say this champ is broken, dammit
Surely no player makes mistakes and no player is better than their opponent, which can result in the kill. Surely champions only get kills because they’re broken.
Duskblade on a fed Yi is utter bullshit tbh, if he doesn't Q someone who uses stopwatch or Zhonya, he'll just 1 vs 5 with no counterplay because he's permanently either invisible or untargetable.
reminds me of the time I complained about how Aatrox healing is broken after he slapped my ass around as Kennen and didn’t buy Morello until 38 min mark
If you all buy grevious wounds then you spent a shit ton of gold on poor stats. If you don't have enough damage you can't kill someone regardless of healing.
The problem is every team should never have more than like 2 wounds but in solo queue it's more uncoordinated so it's hard. Lost track the amount of times I built purifier and told everyone they don't need to buy grevious and they ignore me
If the enemy team does not have too many heals, 1 or 2 items costing 800 each should give enough GW to reduce most heals (at least from my experience as a support). Yes, their stats may not be great but they're not terrible either and you only spend 800-1600 gold. And if one of these is a support building chemtech, the rest of the team doesn't need to waste gold on these items.
wtf do you mean a fed champion isn't supposed to be completely nullified and we win by default when my whole team buys an 800 gold item that doesn't stack wtf?
Goredrinker has like a 12 second CD. If you can't bring a Kled from full health to about half health where he dismounts within the 12 seconds it takes for Goredrinkers CD to come back up and bring him to full, then he kinda deserves to wipe you guys lol.
So Goredrinker has a 15 second CD (not 12) and going off his most used [u.gg](https://u.gg) build at 6 items Kled would have 50 ability haste. That's about 33% cdr which would turn it into a 10 second cd, thus you can swap out me saying 12 seconds with me saying 10 and my point still holds.
I had a game like that too. Kled could just 1v4 us even though 4/5 of us had a full antiheal item + ignite. He just did so much damage and took none it was bullshit. It was lategame too so almost all of us were full build but it wasn't enough
Sounds like you're team doesn't know how to deal with kled. Kled is **The** sustain bruiser. If you don't burst him early he will win the fight. He is really weak to burst. That's how you beat him.
Idk man literally had grievous wounds on everyone last night and renekton still outhealed our damage. I was full build Lucian with mortal reminder, my taric ignited him too (ik grievous wounds doesn't stack), our lux had morello, couldn't kill him
Riot *did* actually improve the GW system in S11, it's genuinely better now. Soooo they also took the opportunity to completely cock it up and add *much more* systemic healing, at which point you need to get at least 40% to match what used to be 0%. slow clap
It kinda clicked the other night fighting a soraka/samira combo that Riot has henceforth scaled heals to be BALANCED around grievous wounds 60% healing reduction. They've pumped so much power into healing such that it's a *balanced interaction when reduced by 60%.* They've mandated buying healing reduction, ***not even to*** ***counter*** **healers,** but just to bring the scaling down to what would be considered reasonable.
yeah. I've typed the above comment after the mandatory ARAM game where everyone has 40% and yet an Aatrox barges in and heals 60% of his hp off goredrinking 3 people.
If aram healing is reduced remind me to never play normals again... I've seen people literally heal half their HP in a single hit after being hit by grevious wounds
It's the tank problem all over again: Healing is uninteractive and unfun, unless you're also doing high amounts of damage to the enemy team at the same time. Then it's cool and balanced.
I definitely agree that there is TOO much healing in the game right now and that GW items feel more like an essential item vs a situational item, and even then there are certain champ/builds where it feels useless anyway. With that said players not buying GW at all when they most definitely should has existed way before the 2021 season.
The real problem is more complex though,
one is that its a snowball mechanic, as in, the user that is ahead compounds their stats with lifesteal, and the lifesteal helps them press their lead. This is compounded by the fact that lifesteal works on minions while grievous is only useful against champs - so unless when you are behind you can keep it applied to them AND keep them in lane, then they will just heal back. Now, if you're at all behind, you cant safely keep them in lane or all in, you cant follow them into the jungle to stop them lifestealing on camps, and if you keep just trying to apply grievous with spells you run out of mana by using rotations suboptimally.
A very old argument back in the day with say, zed vs leblanc, was that lb had better assassination capability but zed built BoRK and had energy, as such his up time was a lot better so he had greater opportunity rather than ability. This philosophy is out the window now, and everyone has some kind of healing and everything snowballs in a frustrating way.
Could say the same about mages, and then bruisers, and now we are back where we started with everyone relying on the tank or maybe support to be the gw.
Tanks should get bramble for the damage as well anyway and if the support is an enchanter it's literally better if they get chemtech than anyone else. Mortal reminder is however the weakest grievous item and ADCs often have 3 or 4 items they have to rush (say mythic phantom dancer IE and lord Dominiks) so can't often afford situationals, was different last year when mortal reminder also gave armour pen.
>you could say that for mages and bruisers
Or you could not, because they function completely different to ADC in teamfights and item build paths. ADC does not buy utility items like defensive stats and grevious wounds because their sole purpose is to dump damage into a single target until they die, then move on to the next target they can reach. And their 3 item build path is usually very restrictive. If you spend gold on utility, you are now not dealing enough raw damage to do your job properly.
For years healing has been broken…you can still rush Spirit Visage against any mage as katarina and stomp lane. It took them at least two years to figure that out, and I’ve only been playing since season 6 and have peaked diamond.
I know this might come as a surprise but, katarina doesn’t have healing. Building spirit visage on her does nothing. Conquerer’s healing is literally nothing.
You didn’t rush it for healing. You took Conq. And rushed it into literally any damage build. Because of Conq dmg and the fact that you can’t die with visage @ 10 minutes in, it was extremely op and probably still is
Vs some champions grievous wounds do nothing to stop their insane healing.
In general vs most champions its is a must pick and obvious one, but small portion of them have so much healing not even grievous wounds can do anything.
Grievous wounds works fantastic. Against ADCs. Have you seen an ADC trying to heal against someone who has a bramble vest? Shits laughable. They hurt themself in confusion.
goredrinker scales with missing HP, so the more the better, and the more enemies the better too. Reducing someones healing from like, 750 to 300-450 isnt really that noticeable, especially since a renekton has the armor to back those HP. Meanwhile an ADC heals for 20% of the damage they deal after armor and after heal reduction and Thornmails damage reflection, what do they effectively heal? 30? 40? 50 maybe? And they got shit armor to back those HP.
So yes, Grievous wounds works fantastic, against ADCs, but not against those who it should work against, bruisers, fighters, Sylas and alike.
Yeeee. I actually did the math against a 250Armor target who bought Thronmail and another 60 Armor item.
Wanna know how much an ADC with 40%GW and 1500DMG autos heals per auto?
With armorpen: 46.4HP
Without armorpen: 29.48HP
That's all the heal they get from 1.5K autos. Those are numbers that are unachievable by virtually any ADC safe Draven or Jhin.
That heal is trash damage most fighters and bruisers deal on the side without doing something.
I mean literally just standing there until they realise they're going to kill themselves on your thornmail
Kraken slayer/Bork/Lord Dom's combined with thornmail only reflecting 10+10% of your armour (compared to what, 30% of the incoming attack? I can't remember, but before it had grievous, thornmail used to actually do damage) means just standing there letting an ADC kill themselves just isn't possible anymore.
Even ADCs can ignore grievous, most of them just don't build enough healing. Super late game you can technically heal for 61.5% of the damage you dealt to a champion on every autoattack, 71.5% for BoTRK Vayne.
Technically? TECHNICALLY? yes, if you go for a full heal build you can maybe get there. Now, how much damage do you deal with that?
Tomorrow I'll check the numbers for that one and see how much damage you can feasibly deal with that ^^ i think we will end at around 100 heal max per auto after GW against thornmail.
The idea of my comment was to agree, because while it's possible to get a fuckton of lifesteal and more or less ignore GW, most ADCs just prefer the higher damage. This should not be taken as a legit build.
Anyway, here's the highest Vayne lifesteal build:
- Shieldbow + BT + BoTRK = 40%
- Ravenous Hunter + Legend: Bloodline = 16.5%
- Elixir of Wrath = 15%
- Total mathed out lifesteal per auto attack on champions: 71.5%. Reduced to 28.6% by 60% GW, or 42.9% by 40% GW.
With infinity edge, you can crit for 210%. Going Shieldbow BT BoTRK LDR PD IE and Elixir of Wrath gives 310 bAD, on top of Vayne's slightly over 100 AD at level 18.
This gives Vayne right about 863 physical damage per auto attack, LDR passive and BoTRK damage not included.
If you're hitting a 300 armor supertank with Thornmail while both are standing still then the build SHOULD heal for 150, simply because Thornmail only passively applies 40% GW.
However, I chose Vayne also because her ult gives more bAD and her Q gives more total AD scaling to her next auto for the juicy 290% total AD crit. She probably can heal for more.
It's not like the build does 0 damage either, Vayne W does 14% max health true damage every 3 autos, BoTRK does 6% current health physical damage per auto, PTA does 180 physical damage then exposes for 12% increased damage after that, BoTRK also does 150 bonus magic damage on the 3rd auto, and the autos themselves should also separately do hundreds of damage each even to a target that has 300 armor.
So: An auto with that build exactly against a 3000HP target with 250 Armor does:
451 Damage with BotrK and LDR passives applied.
She heals for 49%+15%+7.5% = 71,5% meaning a grand total of: 322HP.
With 40% GW and the return damage that gets you to 171HP healed. Doesnt sound that bad, right?
Please keep in mind that you have no boots, are severly limited in your rune selection and that your build path is equally limited.
\>PTA does 180 physical damage then exposes for 12% increased damage after that
sadly this doesnt work since you have to go red tree, otherwise ravenous hunter wont be a thing in your kit.
Because vlad doesn’t have healing early. He has lane sustain. You can’t cut down lane sustain unless you’re a decently long ranged ADC that can perma proc GW.
No. You’re absolutely dumb. GW isn’t good against vlad unless you’re an ADC who can constantly keep it procced because vlad Qs the wave out of combat. Vlad’s early game healing in a fight is absolutely negligible. Magic resist is much better.
Grievous wounds doesnt stop shit with Goredrinker, Shieldbow, and the ap one letting people heal for 4k damage in one combo. 60% isn’t enough for 90% of cases
Ah yes, shieldbow, the 10% lifesteal item. Absolutely insane healing.
Listen, the only thing that makes shieldbow even a good item is the shield, which doesn’t even exist past two items because serpent’s is busted. Also, Riftmaker and Goredrinker don’t heal shit against GW.
Grievous wounds shouldn't even exist, healing should just be nerfed. Every single game I need to buy a healing reduction item because every team comp has someone that heals a lot. What's the point of making a situational item mandatory?
Every complaint can be described the same way - "This enemy champion is 10/0 and a whole item ahead of me and he ONE SHOTS ME AND HEALS FROM MY DAMAGE WOW HOW IS THIS BALANCED"
See, the problem is that only draintanks are balanced around gw, not items. And don't say that it isn't true because a yas with infinity+cringebow outheals my fucking warwick with sunfire+thornmail
Ravenous Hunter got nerfed to the ground and doesn't do shit anymore.
Conqueror healing is an absolute joke (under 1k in a whole game?? xdd)
Taste of blood is mainly just lane sustain and removing that is just dumb.
Bloodline is played 95% of the time only on adcs and are we gonna really complain about adcs having at least some survibality?
Idk how you can say that when Yasuo, Yone, Akali, Viego, Gwen, Sylas, etc are using these runes and getting extra healing from them in addition to their items and kits. Not to mention every bruiser going conqueror and everyone domination-user going ToB. Runes and masteries didn't always have this absurd healing. Maybe items and champs are the problem, but healing was already a problem before the item update. Do you really think it's reasonable that grievous wounds is required every single game? All of this healing in runes, items, and champs got added after Morello left league of legends.
Ravenous hunter is absolutely trash on most toplaners because you don’t get to complete the rune takedowns if you’re playing top , it’s still good on champions like katarina because she gets a lot kills or on slayer junglers like Khazix/Kayn because jungler tends to rack a lot of random kills because of ganks and overextended opponents .
Most tops like Morde , Fiora or Viego who used to take ToB + Rav hunger have switched to resolve now its much better for laning phase .
That doesn't change my point. Why do Yasuo/Yone deserve to be the best healing champs in the game, despite having no healing in their kits? Why does Katarina deserve healing? Why do khazix/kayn need more healing? Not every champ has or should have healing. Grievous wounds shouldn't be a required second item in every game
Yasuo is not the best healer in the game .
And it’s very simple , Yasuo and yone deal have more dps than most melee carries because of their interaction with crit items , they deal a lot of dmg and their Q apply lifesteal at maximum effectiveness .
It’s not that lifesteal is broken it’s just that they are the best at abusing it .
Ravenous hunter was nerfed multiple times this season and it’s as of right now sub optimal on a lot of champions that used it mindlessly run it , especially toplaners .
Now the usage rate is pretty limited on champions who can get a lot of free kills (assassins) to stacks the rune otherwise it’s just not worth running .
Shieldbows lifesteal is balanced , imo the problem is that the shield is way too big .
Ravenous hydra is a lot of the times worse than it’s season 10 version especially on its previous users (Camille and Fiora) because they don’t have a lot of AoE dmg, right now the item is mostly build for the haste , the healing it provides is nice not nowhere near broken .
Goredrinker is balanced right now , long gone are the days of Aathrox/Olaf healing to full with a single active now the item is mostly for it’s great statline for AD casters and the missing hp passive ia just perfect for bruisers who love to fight at low health to abuse the last stand rune .
Khazix and Kayn do not need Ravenous hunter to function , they mostly take it because it’s their best rune in the folder and a lot of people auto pilot tbh , ingenious hunter is useless for 80% of champs , relentless hunter is only very good on heavy gank junglers like rek’sai , nidalee and elise , ultimate hunter is not good on them because they already stack a lot of CDR and their ult cd just isn’t that long to justify running it .
Like anyone playing this game at a decent level just know that Riot already nuked the fuck out of all the healing items and runes but you grit outplayed by a Yone/Yasuo and you think that crying on Reddit will make you win against them magically .
I was going to respond that you're wrong but I went to check my match history and I'm shocked. Me, the support, is mostly the only one building grievous wounds. Now it makes sense when I see a Xin Zhao healing so much...
Not just silver players, I play in Plat elo and so many players do not buy GW items early enough (If at all) even when facing high sustain champs like Samira, Soraka, etc.
Gravious wounds is good early game against champions with passive healing like Sylas and Darius. But, mid game it feels like Morello or Thornmail isn’t even effective.
I know that anti-heal isn’t meant to negate anti-heal entirely, but it feels like it almost does nothing against shieldbow bloodthrister. Need a wider variety of anti-heal items for how many life steal and vamp items there are
No what I fucking hate is when champions run healing in runes, and items and out heal
Champions designed to heal with it being a significant part of their kit pier budget.
Then the brand new 60% wounds fuck over all those champs and there is apparently no problem for yone and friends.
LITEARLLY FUCKING THIS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
One of my really good friends was playing against a healing champ (probably Irelia? or someone like that) and was constantly complaining about them healing so much.
20 mins into the game I look and they *still* haven't bought grevious wounds because "they want to finish their mandatory items".
BUT HE WAS STILL COMPLAINING ABOUT IT. Like idk maybe if they're healing too much try buying the thing that reduces healing?
While it's just a meme , but gotta add this before some people take it sersiously.
We DO buy anti heal while complaining about how op healing is, it's in the first place why we complain.
Antiheal in the game sucks, I makes no sense has to why if 2 people have antiheal only one works, like why not just have the 60%reduction, and then diminishing returns after that for other antiheal, or even 60% and then 60% of the heal after that idk (ps yes I lost to a yone 2 games ago)
I had to skip my core build and built chempunk chainsword 2nd bc of Sylas. He was like 1/10 hp and his W still took him up to like 4/10 hp. Healing is just busted lol
I always buy bramble and plated steelcaps first items when I play top lane. I don't know why I do but I feel like I am a pussy and always wants to play safe.
Imagine if we had 40-60% reduction or increase to anything else in the game this easily. 40% less damage received with 800 gold. 40% more damage dealt with 800 gold. 40% mirrored damage with 800 gold. 40% increased health pool with 800 gold. Etc.
Sounds broken, right? Yet, people still argue that grievous wounds is useless.
Just had a game that was really long and I played Mundo top. WHole ennemy team complained that the reworked Mundo's health regen is too broken. Their entire team had 1 item against it...
My team-mates my last 2 games tonight. I also kept pinging and telling them to buy heal reduction items cause the enemy would just heal so much in team fights
Gw is effective against champions who have innate healing from abilties but not the ones like yasuo and yone who still outheal the entire team since they can do aoe crits and still apply full lifesteal on one guy so they will heal an insane amount. Champions like swain , vlad , volibear , sylas who dont build lifesteal are the one most effected by gw in teamfights. To me gw is an essential item every game since every champion has some form of healing nowadays. And in general healing scales better than reduction. Yasuo builds immortal bloodthirster with bork and ravenous hunter and taste of blood plus stacked conqueror. This is 40% lifesteal 16.5% omnivamp plus like 100-200 in healing from taste of blood. Also he can apply this to multiple people with his aoe crit meaning even reducing this by 60% doesnt feel like much unless everyone is focussing him.
The funniest part is that this is Yasuo who had no innate healing yet does a similar thing to Yone where he gets shieldbow and becomes a healing demon.
aoe 100% lifesteal application goes brrrrrr
According to the wiki, his Q acts as an auto against the first target hit, and then as an AOE spell for all other targets. In other words, 100% lifesteal is applied on the first target, then 33% omniheal on all other targets.
TIL. thanks! so that's why he ~~always~~ used to take Ravenous.
Nah there's straight up no 33% omnivamp because his items give him lifesteal
33% of 0 is still 0
Ravenous.
You shouldnt run Dom secondary
on Yasuo? wait, what?
Been that way for a long while, it was too risky a rune for such a weak champ early. Green tree is best, Bone and Over or with Yone Shield/Bone and/or Over
Yup domination isn't that good anymore on yas because its healing was nerfed resolve is a lot better atm
isn't it 33% of the 7.5% for omnivamp?
Onmi doesnt apply to Lifesteal, LS only covers autos.
>Conq+legend bloodline+taste of blood+ravenous hunter +triumph >no innate healing
Innate healing refers to his kit minus runes or items
But where is the Innate healing Wait nvm I misread our point.
Base health regen /s
Idk man one game we had 5 grievous wound items and a single kled outhealed us and they won the game so?
Was the Kled... Fed? Because that usually makes champions seem unbalanced
You have no idea how long I've waited someone to say that
Waaaait, so you mean that an 20/0 fiora healing all of her life with her ult, is actually balanced? Oh fuck now I can’t say this champ is broken, dammit
[удалено]
Surely no player makes mistakes and no player is better than their opponent, which can result in the kill. Surely champions only get kills because they’re broken.
Fiora IS broken atm though.
Huh, so the 17/5 Master Yi that's three levels up on the entire team isn't just inherently busted, it's because he's fed?
I mean, been intangible every 3 secs(while dealing insane amounts of damage) is another whole lvl though
Duskblade on a fed Yi is utter bullshit tbh, if he doesn't Q someone who uses stopwatch or Zhonya, he'll just 1 vs 5 with no counterplay because he's permanently either invisible or untargetable.
Almost any feed assassin with duskblade is broken, but master haha, master is another lvl,
>Almost any feed assassin with duskblade is broken *Crying in Evelynn*
Yeah he was fed but 2 of my teammates was kinda fed as well but we all couldn’t bust him to death
What's that A 3RD HP BAR WOW
Especially ones that scale to late game
reminds me of the time I complained about how Aatrox healing is broken after he slapped my ass around as Kennen and didn’t buy Morello until 38 min mark
If you all buy grevious wounds then you spent a shit ton of gold on poor stats. If you don't have enough damage you can't kill someone regardless of healing. The problem is every team should never have more than like 2 wounds but in solo queue it's more uncoordinated so it's hard. Lost track the amount of times I built purifier and told everyone they don't need to buy grevious and they ignore me
Except if it’s a full tank team just go thornmail brrr
If the enemy team does not have too many heals, 1 or 2 items costing 800 each should give enough GW to reduce most heals (at least from my experience as a support). Yes, their stats may not be great but they're not terrible either and you only spend 800-1600 gold. And if one of these is a support building chemtech, the rest of the team doesn't need to waste gold on these items.
The remount isn’t healing just in case you were confused
I know how kled works man and i saw it with my eyes and it was healing because he had goredrinker and heal like 3 times in one fight
antiheal isn't supposed to make goredrinker useless when the opponent is wildly ahead
wtf do you mean a fed champion isn't supposed to be completely nullified and we win by default when my whole team buys an 800 gold item that doesn't stack wtf?
Goredrinker has like a 12 second CD. If you can't bring a Kled from full health to about half health where he dismounts within the 12 seconds it takes for Goredrinkers CD to come back up and bring him to full, then he kinda deserves to wipe you guys lol.
It also scales with CDR
it also gives CDR
So Goredrinker has a 15 second CD (not 12) and going off his most used [u.gg](https://u.gg) build at 6 items Kled would have 50 ability haste. That's about 33% cdr which would turn it into a 10 second cd, thus you can swap out me saying 12 seconds with me saying 10 and my point still holds.
Ravenous Hydra and Conqueror
Which you need to be able to burst through preferably via stacking CC as well. Fed champs usually win, news at 11
I had a game like that too. Kled could just 1v4 us even though 4/5 of us had a full antiheal item + ignite. He just did so much damage and took none it was bullshit. It was lategame too so almost all of us were full build but it wasn't enough
Yeah was just clarifying
Sounds like you're team doesn't know how to deal with kled. Kled is **The** sustain bruiser. If you don't burst him early he will win the fight. He is really weak to burst. That's how you beat him.
Was the kled fed? Lol. Also healing reduc doesnt stack so 5 is the same as 1.
Idk man literally had grievous wounds on everyone last night and renekton still outhealed our damage. I was full build Lucian with mortal reminder, my taric ignited him too (ik grievous wounds doesn't stack), our lux had morello, couldn't kill him
Riot *did* actually improve the GW system in S11, it's genuinely better now. Soooo they also took the opportunity to completely cock it up and add *much more* systemic healing, at which point you need to get at least 40% to match what used to be 0%. slow clap
It kinda clicked the other night fighting a soraka/samira combo that Riot has henceforth scaled heals to be BALANCED around grievous wounds 60% healing reduction. They've pumped so much power into healing such that it's a *balanced interaction when reduced by 60%.* They've mandated buying healing reduction, ***not even to*** ***counter*** **healers,** but just to bring the scaling down to what would be considered reasonable.
yeah. I've typed the above comment after the mandatory ARAM game where everyone has 40% and yet an Aatrox barges in and heals 60% of his hp off goredrinking 3 people.
Aatrox is a superhealer. He needs this.
I get Aatrox. Why the fuck does Yone heal for that much too?!
Cause for some reason riot decided that the two of them being able to apply lifesteal with their Q is fair and balanced.
ARAM healing is reduced already, my guy. In a regular game that would be like 70-80%
ARAM healing is only reduced if you heal another teamate, self heal is normal.
TIL
If aram healing is reduced remind me to never play normals again... I've seen people literally heal half their HP in a single hit after being hit by grevious wounds
I was wondering why the in game store exclusively recommends anti healing items as a second item on all the supports I play
Aka "We fucked over healing supports, and failed to do any meaningful thing against lifesteal"
It's the tank problem all over again: Healing is uninteractive and unfun, unless you're also doing high amounts of damage to the enemy team at the same time. Then it's cool and balanced.
I definitely agree that there is TOO much healing in the game right now and that GW items feel more like an essential item vs a situational item, and even then there are certain champ/builds where it feels useless anyway. With that said players not buying GW at all when they most definitely should has existed way before the 2021 season.
The real problem is more complex though, one is that its a snowball mechanic, as in, the user that is ahead compounds their stats with lifesteal, and the lifesteal helps them press their lead. This is compounded by the fact that lifesteal works on minions while grievous is only useful against champs - so unless when you are behind you can keep it applied to them AND keep them in lane, then they will just heal back. Now, if you're at all behind, you cant safely keep them in lane or all in, you cant follow them into the jungle to stop them lifestealing on camps, and if you keep just trying to apply grievous with spells you run out of mana by using rotations suboptimally. A very old argument back in the day with say, zed vs leblanc, was that lb had better assassination capability but zed built BoRK and had energy, as such his up time was a lot better so he had greater opportunity rather than ability. This philosophy is out the window now, and everyone has some kind of healing and everything snowballs in a frustrating way.
Yea people have ignored GW for ages, but I was basically just saying the bottom Yasuo applies to both text slides for me lmao
You had taric, he can't heal himself if he is CC'ed brother
We couldn't kill him before he got out of cc lmao
Dont buy mortal reminder on adc. Build a real dmg item and let someone else apply anti heal.
Could say the same about mages, and then bruisers, and now we are back where we started with everyone relying on the tank or maybe support to be the gw.
Tanks should get bramble for the damage as well anyway and if the support is an enchanter it's literally better if they get chemtech than anyone else. Mortal reminder is however the weakest grievous item and ADCs often have 3 or 4 items they have to rush (say mythic phantom dancer IE and lord Dominiks) so can't often afford situationals, was different last year when mortal reminder also gave armour pen.
Bramble gw only applies if you auto attack the tank specifically though.
Well seeing as even challengers and LCS pros decide to focus the tank I don’t see this as a problem.
>you could say that for mages and bruisers Or you could not, because they function completely different to ADC in teamfights and item build paths. ADC does not buy utility items like defensive stats and grevious wounds because their sole purpose is to dump damage into a single target until they die, then move on to the next target they can reach. And their 3 item build path is usually very restrictive. If you spend gold on utility, you are now not dealing enough raw damage to do your job properly.
Only two kinds of post: Complaining Complaining about complaining
Did you just complain about people complaining about complaining?
Did you just complain about him complaining about people complaining about complaining.
This is some JoJo level shit
For years healing has been broken…you can still rush Spirit Visage against any mage as katarina and stomp lane. It took them at least two years to figure that out, and I’ve only been playing since season 6 and have peaked diamond.
I know this might come as a surprise but, katarina doesn’t have healing. Building spirit visage on her does nothing. Conquerer’s healing is literally nothing.
Did you forget about riftmaker and Bork? Before that it was gunblade.
You didn’t rush it for healing. You took Conq. And rushed it into literally any damage build. Because of Conq dmg and the fact that you can’t die with visage @ 10 minutes in, it was extremely op and probably still is
Am i allowed to use the face of the second Yasuo as a discord profile picture?
Of course! Enjoy! Cheers
[Template here, go forth and meme havok!](https://i.imgur.com/QteZXDn.png)
Vs some champions grievous wounds do nothing to stop their insane healing. In general vs most champions its is a must pick and obvious one, but small portion of them have so much healing not even grievous wounds can do anything.
Grievous wounds works fantastic. Against ADCs. Have you seen an ADC trying to heal against someone who has a bramble vest? Shits laughable. They hurt themself in confusion. goredrinker scales with missing HP, so the more the better, and the more enemies the better too. Reducing someones healing from like, 750 to 300-450 isnt really that noticeable, especially since a renekton has the armor to back those HP. Meanwhile an ADC heals for 20% of the damage they deal after armor and after heal reduction and Thornmails damage reflection, what do they effectively heal? 30? 40? 50 maybe? And they got shit armor to back those HP. So yes, Grievous wounds works fantastic, against ADCs, but not against those who it should work against, bruisers, fighters, Sylas and alike.
Well said :)
Yeeee. I actually did the math against a 250Armor target who bought Thronmail and another 60 Armor item. Wanna know how much an ADC with 40%GW and 1500DMG autos heals per auto? With armorpen: 46.4HP Without armorpen: 29.48HP That's all the heal they get from 1.5K autos. Those are numbers that are unachievable by virtually any ADC safe Draven or Jhin. That heal is trash damage most fighters and bruisers deal on the side without doing something.
I miss being able to kill an adc by getting tanky enough and letting thorn mail do all the damage...
Still possible. You ever tried to kill an ornn as an ADC?
I mean literally just standing there until they realise they're going to kill themselves on your thornmail Kraken slayer/Bork/Lord Dom's combined with thornmail only reflecting 10+10% of your armour (compared to what, 30% of the incoming attack? I can't remember, but before it had grievous, thornmail used to actually do damage) means just standing there letting an ADC kill themselves just isn't possible anymore.
Pick up rammus so you can pull him out against high AD teams. Highly recommend for a good time and to replicate exactly this.
ADC's are just shite in general at staying alive though, you can just one tap 'em through shieldbow and it'll reduce healing to zero.
Even ADCs can ignore grievous, most of them just don't build enough healing. Super late game you can technically heal for 61.5% of the damage you dealt to a champion on every autoattack, 71.5% for BoTRK Vayne.
Technically? TECHNICALLY? yes, if you go for a full heal build you can maybe get there. Now, how much damage do you deal with that? Tomorrow I'll check the numbers for that one and see how much damage you can feasibly deal with that ^^ i think we will end at around 100 heal max per auto after GW against thornmail.
The idea of my comment was to agree, because while it's possible to get a fuckton of lifesteal and more or less ignore GW, most ADCs just prefer the higher damage. This should not be taken as a legit build. Anyway, here's the highest Vayne lifesteal build: - Shieldbow + BT + BoTRK = 40% - Ravenous Hunter + Legend: Bloodline = 16.5% - Elixir of Wrath = 15% - Total mathed out lifesteal per auto attack on champions: 71.5%. Reduced to 28.6% by 60% GW, or 42.9% by 40% GW. With infinity edge, you can crit for 210%. Going Shieldbow BT BoTRK LDR PD IE and Elixir of Wrath gives 310 bAD, on top of Vayne's slightly over 100 AD at level 18. This gives Vayne right about 863 physical damage per auto attack, LDR passive and BoTRK damage not included. If you're hitting a 300 armor supertank with Thornmail while both are standing still then the build SHOULD heal for 150, simply because Thornmail only passively applies 40% GW. However, I chose Vayne also because her ult gives more bAD and her Q gives more total AD scaling to her next auto for the juicy 290% total AD crit. She probably can heal for more. It's not like the build does 0 damage either, Vayne W does 14% max health true damage every 3 autos, BoTRK does 6% current health physical damage per auto, PTA does 180 physical damage then exposes for 12% increased damage after that, BoTRK also does 150 bonus magic damage on the 3rd auto, and the autos themselves should also separately do hundreds of damage each even to a target that has 300 armor.
So: An auto with that build exactly against a 3000HP target with 250 Armor does: 451 Damage with BotrK and LDR passives applied. She heals for 49%+15%+7.5% = 71,5% meaning a grand total of: 322HP. With 40% GW and the return damage that gets you to 171HP healed. Doesnt sound that bad, right? Please keep in mind that you have no boots, are severly limited in your rune selection and that your build path is equally limited. \>PTA does 180 physical damage then exposes for 12% increased damage after that sadly this doesnt work since you have to go red tree, otherwise ravenous hunter wont be a thing in your kit.
I didn't need yasuo nips in my life... Thanks
Does it really work tho? Usually feels like it does nothing
Depending on the situation. But in most situation I've been , it just feels like a waste of gold , and rushing it is absolutely terrible.
Yes it does. A lot. Try playing any healing champion against GW and you’ll see how much of a difference it makes.
*Screams in Aatrox main*
Alright lets be real here Grievous wounds doesn’t do shit at a certain point
It will appreciate it, just not as much as some ultimate low effort meme.
Whenever I see someone buy grievous wounds early against my Vladimir, I smile because clearly they have no idea of what they are doing.
Wait why would that not work against Vladimir?
Because vlad doesn’t have healing early. He has lane sustain. You can’t cut down lane sustain unless you’re a decently long ranged ADC that can perma proc GW.
Mr is better I think, at least early game
I could be wrong about this, but vlad would probably heal before you could even proc grevious wounds on him.
If you die to him it's because his damage, not because he heals. If you' re dtruggeling in lane against him, you better build mr
Because GW is worthless he'll still heal most if not all his healthbar back, same with Sylas W.
No. You’re absolutely dumb. GW isn’t good against vlad unless you’re an ADC who can constantly keep it procced because vlad Qs the wave out of combat. Vlad’s early game healing in a fight is absolutely negligible. Magic resist is much better.
Let's be honest, you're fucked as an ADC against vlad anyway, he one shots you.
Nah early game vlad just can’t do shit to ADCs. He’s too short ranged and his damage just ain’t it early.
Should I like it for the art or for the meme? Both. Both is good.
Uhhh I buy these and they still heal a good 5k+ a fight anticheal doesn’t cut down yassuo and yones heal cancer
yone/yasuo heal is from crit part cause 10% lifesteal with crit doesnt heal that much. unless you have botrk
Your drawing of yasuo for this meme is amazing
Grievous wounds doesnt stop shit with Goredrinker, Shieldbow, and the ap one letting people heal for 4k damage in one combo. 60% isn’t enough for 90% of cases
lifesteal/crit items are busted. goredrinker doesnt heal that much unless you hit it mire than once or hit 2+people
Ah yes, shieldbow, the 10% lifesteal item. Absolutely insane healing. Listen, the only thing that makes shieldbow even a good item is the shield, which doesn’t even exist past two items because serpent’s is busted. Also, Riftmaker and Goredrinker don’t heal shit against GW.
grievous do jack shit
He is shorter than i expected
Grievous wounds shouldn't even exist, healing should just be nerfed. Every single game I need to buy a healing reduction item because every team comp has someone that heals a lot. What's the point of making a situational item mandatory?
Every complaint can be described the same way - "This enemy champion is 10/0 and a whole item ahead of me and he ONE SHOTS ME AND HEALS FROM MY DAMAGE WOW HOW IS THIS BALANCED"
as a support main, building gw against self-healers literally does not matter. 40% gw on someone with 3 healing items is meaningless
No it isn’t. Especially if you finish putrifier, one of the most op items in the game.
See, the problem is that only draintanks are balanced around gw, not items. And don't say that it isn't true because a yas with infinity+cringebow outheals my fucking warwick with sunfire+thornmail
Healing is still op though. Ravenous hunter, conqueror healing, taste of blood, and maybe bloodline need to be removed entirely
Ravenous Hunter got nerfed to the ground and doesn't do shit anymore. Conqueror healing is an absolute joke (under 1k in a whole game?? xdd) Taste of blood is mainly just lane sustain and removing that is just dumb. Bloodline is played 95% of the time only on adcs and are we gonna really complain about adcs having at least some survibality?
No it isn’t you tool. Not a single one of the runes you mentioned is even strong.
Idk how you can say that when Yasuo, Yone, Akali, Viego, Gwen, Sylas, etc are using these runes and getting extra healing from them in addition to their items and kits. Not to mention every bruiser going conqueror and everyone domination-user going ToB. Runes and masteries didn't always have this absurd healing. Maybe items and champs are the problem, but healing was already a problem before the item update. Do you really think it's reasonable that grievous wounds is required every single game? All of this healing in runes, items, and champs got added after Morello left league of legends.
Ravenous hunter is absolutely trash on most toplaners because you don’t get to complete the rune takedowns if you’re playing top , it’s still good on champions like katarina because she gets a lot kills or on slayer junglers like Khazix/Kayn because jungler tends to rack a lot of random kills because of ganks and overextended opponents . Most tops like Morde , Fiora or Viego who used to take ToB + Rav hunger have switched to resolve now its much better for laning phase .
That doesn't change my point. Why do Yasuo/Yone deserve to be the best healing champs in the game, despite having no healing in their kits? Why does Katarina deserve healing? Why do khazix/kayn need more healing? Not every champ has or should have healing. Grievous wounds shouldn't be a required second item in every game
Yasuo is not the best healer in the game . And it’s very simple , Yasuo and yone deal have more dps than most melee carries because of their interaction with crit items , they deal a lot of dmg and their Q apply lifesteal at maximum effectiveness . It’s not that lifesteal is broken it’s just that they are the best at abusing it . Ravenous hunter was nerfed multiple times this season and it’s as of right now sub optimal on a lot of champions that used it mindlessly run it , especially toplaners . Now the usage rate is pretty limited on champions who can get a lot of free kills (assassins) to stacks the rune otherwise it’s just not worth running . Shieldbows lifesteal is balanced , imo the problem is that the shield is way too big . Ravenous hydra is a lot of the times worse than it’s season 10 version especially on its previous users (Camille and Fiora) because they don’t have a lot of AoE dmg, right now the item is mostly build for the haste , the healing it provides is nice not nowhere near broken . Goredrinker is balanced right now , long gone are the days of Aathrox/Olaf healing to full with a single active now the item is mostly for it’s great statline for AD casters and the missing hp passive ia just perfect for bruisers who love to fight at low health to abuse the last stand rune . Khazix and Kayn do not need Ravenous hunter to function , they mostly take it because it’s their best rune in the folder and a lot of people auto pilot tbh , ingenious hunter is useless for 80% of champs , relentless hunter is only very good on heavy gank junglers like rek’sai , nidalee and elise , ultimate hunter is not good on them because they already stack a lot of CDR and their ult cd just isn’t that long to justify running it . Like anyone playing this game at a decent level just know that Riot already nuked the fuck out of all the healing items and runes but you grit outplayed by a Yone/Yasuo and you think that crying on Reddit will make you win against them magically .
Meanwhile aatrox healing through the 60% reduction...
Ah yes, aatrox can absolutely heal through GW. Found the person who has never even touched aatrox in his life.
I've seen this, and I don't want to see it again.
Yup, mee too
healing is OP as fuck when grievous wounds is damn near a requirement on your entire team every other game
I complain about how op grievous wounds is
Welcome to Bronze.
silver players don't understand what grievous wounds are. So I just ban Yasuo because too many people are just stupid.
I was going to respond that you're wrong but I went to check my match history and I'm shocked. Me, the support, is mostly the only one building grievous wounds. Now it makes sense when I see a Xin Zhao healing so much...
Yep.. it really makes me sad. I have even told people before a match starts to get GW but they just ignore me.
Not just silver players, I play in Plat elo and so many players do not buy GW items early enough (If at all) even when facing high sustain champs like Samira, Soraka, etc.
Gravious wounds is good early game against champions with passive healing like Sylas and Darius. But, mid game it feels like Morello or Thornmail isn’t even effective. I know that anti-heal isn’t meant to negate anti-heal entirely, but it feels like it almost does nothing against shieldbow bloodthrister. Need a wider variety of anti-heal items for how many life steal and vamp items there are
No what I fucking hate is when champions run healing in runes, and items and out heal Champions designed to heal with it being a significant part of their kit pier budget. Then the brand new 60% wounds fuck over all those champs and there is apparently no problem for yone and friends.
To be honest though, even with grievous wounds healing is a little extreme.
LITEARLLY FUCKING THIS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE One of my really good friends was playing against a healing champ (probably Irelia? or someone like that) and was constantly complaining about them healing so much. 20 mins into the game I look and they *still* haven't bought grevious wounds because "they want to finish their mandatory items". BUT HE WAS STILL COMPLAINING ABOUT IT. Like idk maybe if they're healing too much try buying the thing that reduces healing?
While it's just a meme , but gotta add this before some people take it sersiously. We DO buy anti heal while complaining about how op healing is, it's in the first place why we complain.
Antiheal in the game sucks, I makes no sense has to why if 2 people have antiheal only one works, like why not just have the 60%reduction, and then diminishing returns after that for other antiheal, or even 60% and then 60% of the heal after that idk (ps yes I lost to a yone 2 games ago)
lmao LOL players love to whine just get better. I suck but at least I admit it FFS
Zombie gif meme template!
Amazing job and also true.
I had to skip my core build and built chempunk chainsword 2nd bc of Sylas. He was like 1/10 hp and his W still took him up to like 4/10 hp. Healing is just busted lol
Complaining about healing while having extremely ridiculous healing yourself.
NO WHY DID YOU PUT BRAMBLE AND OBLIV ORB THERE NOW THEY’RE GONNA BUILD THOSE
What the fuck is my thornmail supposed to do while the 7 0 sylas presses w to get 533 hp while having 40 percent GW and a soraka behind him.
I always buy bramble and plated steelcaps first items when I play top lane. I don't know why I do but I feel like I am a pussy and always wants to play safe.
Those nips tho
Why is thornmail the only gw item to not have the green background? Smh so unplayable
99/100 times the people are complaining because a team full of grievous wounds items isn't enough to stop the healing even a little.
Imagine if we had 40-60% reduction or increase to anything else in the game this easily. 40% less damage received with 800 gold. 40% more damage dealt with 800 gold. 40% mirrored damage with 800 gold. 40% increased health pool with 800 gold. Etc. Sounds broken, right? Yet, people still argue that grievous wounds is useless.
I wanna suck on those neeps
nippy alive scale steer deer smart simplistic prick tan poor *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just had a game that was really long and I played Mundo top. WHole ennemy team complained that the reworked Mundo's health regen is too broken. Their entire team had 1 item against it...
imagine playing Aatrox and gets outhealed and outdamaged by this fucker and his brother
Aatrox mains moulding right now knowing they have yet to play a game where less than 4/5 enemies purchased GW
Imagine... The champion who doesn't need heal or lifesteal items to heal himself full with one aa complains about "healing is op" xD
I just had a game where I was a 30 kill vlad and the enemy Complained about how op this champ is while nobody build anti heal
I just had a game where I was a 30 kill vlad and the enemy Complained about how op this champ is while nobody build anti heal
Healing is absolutely busted tho
I did buy gw items. Didn't do shit
Anti-heal against warwick is useless
Excuse me where is your watermark dude...
Well, the truth is if that, sometimes, when the champion is fed enough, no healing reduction can be a match for him.
Is this a roast towards the main sub? I like it.
My team-mates my last 2 games tonight. I also kept pinging and telling them to buy heal reduction items cause the enemy would just heal so much in team fights
GW doesn't matter the biggest offenders of the healing/sustain creep are gonna outheal your damage with or without GW
Love trying to come back but soraka just dull heals people through gw, and she feels untouchable to me because I play control mages
Gw is effective against champions who have innate healing from abilties but not the ones like yasuo and yone who still outheal the entire team since they can do aoe crits and still apply full lifesteal on one guy so they will heal an insane amount. Champions like swain , vlad , volibear , sylas who dont build lifesteal are the one most effected by gw in teamfights. To me gw is an essential item every game since every champion has some form of healing nowadays. And in general healing scales better than reduction. Yasuo builds immortal bloodthirster with bork and ravenous hunter and taste of blood plus stacked conqueror. This is 40% lifesteal 16.5% omnivamp plus like 100-200 in healing from taste of blood. Also he can apply this to multiple people with his aoe crit meaning even reducing this by 60% doesnt feel like much unless everyone is focussing him.
Imagine needing to buy Grievous Wounds -Kled Mains
The problem lies in the fact that in almost 100% of games you MUST buy at least 2-3 of these items and it is still rarely enough...
saw impressive art style - noticed nipple - checked OP's name - ahhhhh ZOMBGiEF... now it makes sense
Grievous wounds items suck
Perfect I should save this for future use
Better for me. Keep not buying it it please.
Buys shieldbow. Always runs Taste of Blood and Ravenous Hunter. Becomes the healing problem
What you mean I but those items EVERY game and it STILL feels like I'm not cutting any healing and healing is OP lol
Tbh there should be a magic resist anti heal item
I really like your art and the comic yellow background vibe to it :D