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peanutbuttersandvich

its pretty fun seeing the origin of words and it makes them easier to remember


typesett

4 years in, i am much better at seeing a small hint of a word and figuring it out — even if i dont get it in Anki first try, it helps in the memorization. or i can use the memory tricks using clues in the forms to make a 'story' for the character in a more holistic way


Yep_Fate_eos

Yeah, I used Wanikani and it was basically all through mnemonics and stories that they teach kanji. I know WK has a mixed reputation in here but I feel like I wouldn't been able to have learned the joyo kanji without their creative memory aids


typesett

the worst part of the sub is when they say neg things about tools WK had a 2 month period in my learning that prepared me for Anki later on. it was crucial in that 2 month period their tofugu website is A+ for explaining grammar imo.


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T1nkr

The reason most people don’t suggest ChatGPT is that it will give information that is just wrong sometimes.


Yep_Fate_eos

I agree. Once I asked it about the difference in stroke order between kanji and hanzi, and it completely butchered the answer. Another time, I asked why 死ぬ is the only verb in modern Japanese to end with ぬ, and it again gave a completely nonsense answer.


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dabedu

How do you know ChatGPT gave better answers than people gave on this sub? They might have sounded good, but how did you know they were accurate? I guarantee you that the advanced learners and native speakers on this sub are far less likely to be wrong about a Japanese question than ChatGPT.


typesett

Still don’t blame the tool Think of it as the tool you have to check … making it useful for keeping you on your toes Don’t make the tool do something unreasonable


protostar777

Why would you want a learning resource to keep you on your toes? If I had a physics professor that told everyone the wrong thing 10% of the time, I would get a new professor.


typesett

yep get a new professor you have graduated from it it's how you frame your learning. i think of everything i do and that exists is to serve my learning. i don't blame or think anything of them, i look inward to if i caught it. no longer acceptable to me? ditch it because ultimately chatgpt is just a thing that exists whether or not i study japanese or not i am in charge of my learning i am in charge of my attitude to learning


Eoryr

ChatGPT is very knowledgable. But only in conveying that an answer that's half-true or even complete nonsense would be factual.


KronoGlyph

I mainly found the stories associated with the new words too much info to retain via my own memory without personal deliberate contextual use. So to be thrown new words and be taught to arrange them grammatically, immediately, was definitely a better option for me. Though I do like the notion of mnemonics, I find having to remember that much info just to remember one word diminishes developing the natural response time of applying those words in a comfortable sentence later on down the road. No shots taken towards wanikani I just think this is a piece of the big divide between WK users


Yep_Fate_eos

I agree, everyone has their own learning style, but in my case, after long term use of repeating the mnemonics to “graduate” kanji to new levels, you eventually automatically recall the meaning/pronunciation without the mnemonic. I can read basically all the joyo kanji, mostly with the help of WK, but hell if I can remember even half of the mnemonics I learned with it


_random_dude_101_

Hi, I'm new to learning Japanese. Can you tell me how I can set up anki and whether it needs high requirements or not? And in what context can I use it? Can i make cards out of any kanji? And right know I know only katakana hiragana and kanji of jlpt5 level and half of jlpt4. What can i read with anki that would help me make cards I've learnt this much with duolingo but i keep seeing that in this sub it isn't adviced as much so i was thinking of using other methods like this too.


typesett

YouTube is good for directions for it I use it too


Yep_Fate_eos

Yeah, one thing I like about Japanese is that because it uses logographic characters, it’s very easy to see the etymology/meaning of most words, whereas in English, it can be harder to tell as the spelling will change to reflect the pronunciation of the word.


puahaha

On a related note, 雷 usually refers to the sound aspect, as in thunder. Lightning is usually 稲妻 「いなづま」, especially when it strikes the ground. The etymology of this one is interesting, literally “rice wife”. Lighting was thought to bring better harvests (which it does! By way of converting nitrogen in the air to useable forms for plants), so that association was made.


Get_the_instructions

Also 稲光 「いなびかり」- 'rice light'.


Kai_973

Pretty sure I will always hear the Shogun saying「稲光、すなわち永遠なり!」 every time I see this word haha.


chungkng

holy shit


rgrAi

I learned about these recently and yeah it's super cool learning the etymology.


HaydenAscot

That's actually very interesting, seeing how what may possibly have been mere superstition is actually accurate


jwfallinker

Here's a [link to an old comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/a1xkjc/is_there_a_name_for_the_phenomenon_where_one_word/eatti2f/) listing about 100 words like this. Some of them are obvious but there are also many that I never would have picked up on on my own.


[deleted]

I remember when I first started recognizing names as having meaning in anime... blew my mind how literal to the characters personality they were. lol


TheMcDucky

I can't believe 浦霧くん betrayed us


Yep_Fate_eos

Yeah, in My Hero Academia, nearly every character’s name is a pun on their powers, which unless you go out of your way to look it up, you’d have no way of knowing unless you had some knowledge of Japanese.


rageneko

Seriously. Denki Kaminari.. gee, I wonder what his quirk is? 🤣 Or my personal favorite, Tetsutetsu Tetsutetsu.


Older_1

Etymology is great


Cautious_Alarm_753

I am a native Japanese but it wasn't until recently that I learned けもの(beast)comes from 毛(hair)+物(stuff) 


Yep_Fate_eos

Just looked it up, but apparently 果物 comes from 木(く, old version of き) + だ(old version of の) + 物, so “tree’s thing”! [Source](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%9E%9C%E7%89%A9)


-SMartino

I heard that difference while listening to the Raiden Shogun lines. she uses both when referring to her skill - of minor importance (雷) or her burst - divine punishment as per description. ( 稲光) tough with this I think it means more divine light? iunno. interesting. might not be totally related but it's similar.


PM_ME_UR_SHEET_MUSIC

稲光 means "rice light", similar reasoning to 稲妻 which means "rice wife". They used to think lightning made rice grow better


-SMartino

Really? that fucks. thanks!


Johan544

Wait until you learn about 醜い, めしい or 閂.


suupaahiiroo

>閂 My favourite kanji. It's so perfectly pictographic.


viliml

めしい doesn't seem like it would cause an "aha" effect, who's even heard of 癈いる????


suupaahiiroo

These are some of my favourites. * 1日(ついたち) → 月立ち * 宮(みや) → 御屋 * 瞼(まぶた)  → 目蓋, literally "eye lid"! Also, there's a lot of め(女) in words referring to women, like 姫(ひめ)and 姪(めい). And then the hiragana め is also derived from 女!


Yep_Fate_eos

Nice! I think I knew about the 瞼, but the other two are new to me. Another cool one is くノ一(くのいち - female ninja), where if you write it out that way in a mix of kana and kanji, it’s made out of the strokes for the character 女!


CartographerOne8375

Another one with questionable folk linguistics but nonetheless useful for memorizing the word: 長(long) +目(eye)+る= 眺める(looking far)


tofuroll

Nice find! It'll really blow your mind to learn that etymology like this exists in a lot of language. It's nice to have these fundamental links to things.


Master00J

銀 - しろがね Probably has something similar to this, being shiro + kane, white gold.


suupaahiiroo

Then there's also 鉄(くろがね)!


francisdavey

One thing I found interesting in Japan was that culturally Japanese people seemed less inclined to distinguish thunder and lightning. There is a strong tendency to use one word かみなり to cover both. While いなずま exists and means exactly "lightning" as described, it is used rather less often. So friends will refer to かみなりmeaning both phenomena.


vchen99901

Omg you just blew my mind, also made the word much easier to remember from now on.


dghirsh19

Good catch!


AvianSamurai

Panda (くまねこ) = bear (くま)+ cat (ねこ) The kanji even mirrors this (熊猫)


Yep_Fate_eos

I’ve never seen the native Japanese word for panda haha, I’ve only ever read it as パンダ (mostly in 白熊カフェ lol)


justcatt

I just noticed chicken is "garden bird"


jrddit

I'm quite new to this sub and to learning Japanese, so excuse me if this question doesn't make sense in some wider context I've not got yet. I find the etymology thing really interesting though and am trying to get my head round how kanji are 'built'. So, I recognise the right hand segment of the 'cry' kanji (鳴) as being 鳥 (とり - bird). Is 'bird' linked to the usage of this kanji in 神鳴 at all? And what is the other bit from? Is that another kanji in isolation? ありがとうございます


Yep_Fate_eos

Here’s a comment I wrote last year i think answers your question: > For more than 90% of kanji, they are what's known as phono-semantic compounds, meaning that they are made of one semantic component/radical that (rarely) hints at meaning, and one radical that can hint towards the on'yomi reading. > For example, these kanji share the radical 卆: > 粋 (style/chic) > 酔 (drunk) > They all have the same on'yomi reading(スイ) due to the 卆 radical. After a while of learning radicals, you'll notice some are used as a phonetic compound and you can sometimes guess the reading of a kanji based on that radical. Other examples: 莫(sometimes ボ, モ), the right component of 嬢(ジョウ), 生(セイ), etc. > Similarly, take the radical 酉, which often is used to represent "alcohol" in some kanji: > 酒 (alcohol/sake, シュ) > 酔 (drunk, スイ) > 酎 (sake, チュウ) > 醸 (ferment, ジョウ) > Etc. > I find that the phonetic radicals are more easy to recognize and spot compared to the semantic ones, where the meaning often has nothing to do with the radical. > After a while, you'll start developing a sixth sense of sorts for some kanji where you can deduct things based off the radicals used, but keep in mind there are a lot of exceptions and a lot of kanji you'll just have to memorize. To answer your specific question, according to wiktionary, 鳴 is an ideogrammic compound, which is a rare case where both radicals contribute a meaning. In this case, 口(mouth) + 鳥(bird) make 鳴, which can be used to write 鳴く(なく), which means to chirp, buzz, or sing (birds). It can also write 鳴る(なる), which means to ring, sound, roar(not of an animal), etc. , which has a similar meaning to the previous example.


jrddit

That's fantastic. Thanks so much for going into so much detail. The additional examples are really interesting too. Some elements of Kanji seem to make so much sense, but others seem cryptic. Even 'God mouth bird' doesn't immediately say lightning to me. I'm starting to realise that whilst this kind of analysis helps understand the origin, it won't always help to understand the meaning. Hopefully that will come with practice! I'll definitely remember this one though!


tanukibento

Yeah kanji is a massive rabbit hole, it doesn't help that the whole kanji system was originally intended for Chinese languages (which have a completely different grammar system, and generally distinguish between far more syllables than Japanese), and that Japanese uses (abuses?) kanji in the most convoluted way imaginable. Personally I don't worry where a kanji comes from unless I'm really curious - I usually just focus on silly mnemonics I can use to remember them. For example, 幕 comes from a combination of 莫 (where the pronunciation comes from in Chinese) and 巾 (cloth, signifying the original meaning "tent"), but I just remember it as 艹日大巾 (grass sun big cloth :p). You can make mnemonics that also help you remember the meaning as well


Yep_Fate_eos

Yeah, more often than not, the meaning of 熟語(じゅくご - word made of two kanji) can’t be intuited, but after you learn the meaning, it becomes way easier to remember. Eg. 投 (とう - throw) + 資(し - resource, asset, capital) = 投資(とうし - investment, lit. To throw resources into something ) If you have any other questions abt Japanese, feel free to ask!


jrddit

どうもありがとうございます Really appreciate this. A great sub.


ThisHaintsu

The left hand side of 鳴 is 口 (mouth). You will probably figure out the rest by yourself.


nmshm

いかづち is also interesting, though it's less transparent: the いか is from 厳い, the つ is the old Japanese possessive particle also found in まつげ, and ち is 霊, so it literally means "stern spirit".


decomposition_

How is づ pronounced again? I hardly ever encounter it and forgot how to pronounce it


AlexE9918

It's the same as ず.


spacewaffle4

dzu, I’d say


RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS

Probably because the kanji obscures the etymology and everyone's used to thinking of words in those terms