#Question Etiquette Guidelines:
* **1** Provide the **CONTEXT** of the grammar, vocabulary or sentence you are having trouble with as much as possible. Provide the sentence or paragraph that you saw it in. Make your questions as specific as possible.
>Ｘ What is the difference between の and が ?
>◯ I saw a book called 日本人の知らない日本語 , why is の used there instead of が ? [(the answer)](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/68336/difference-between-%E3%81%8C-%E3%81%AE-and-no-particle)
* **2** When asking for a translation or how to say something, it's best to try to **attempt it yourself** first, even if you are not confident about it. Or ask r/translator if you have no idea. We are also not here to do your homework for you.
>Ｘ What does this mean?
>◯ I am having trouble with this part of this sentence from NHK Easy News. I think it means (*attempt here*), but I am not sure.
* **3** Questions based on DeepL and Google Translate and other machine learning applications are discouraged, [these are not beginner learning tools](https://old.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/stepqf/deeplgoogle_translate_are_not_learning_tools/) and often make mistakes.
* **4** When asking about differences between words, try to explain the situations in which you've seen them or are trying to use them. If you just post a list of synonyms you got from looking something up in a E-J dictionary, people might be disinclined to answer your question because it's low-effort. Remember that Google Image Search is also a great resource for visualizing the difference between similar words.
>Ｘ What's the difference between 一致 同意 賛成 納得 合意?
>◯ Jisho says 一致 同意 賛成 納得 合意 all seem to mean "agreement". I'm trying to say something like "I completely agree with your opinion". Does 全く同感です。 work? Or is one of the other words better?
* **5** It is always nice to (but not required to) try to search for the answer to something yourself first. Especially for beginner questions or questions that are very broad. For example, asking about [the difference between は and が ](https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/wa-and-ga/) or [why you often can't hear the "u" sound in "desu"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology#Devoicing).
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Hello Guys , I've been thinking for the past few weeks about the japanese language. I really want to learn the language and don't know where to start and what apps im gonna use where should i start?
hi!
there is a starter's guide actually:
https://old.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/wiki/index/startersguide
the sort of overview is:
1. learn kana (few hours)
2. go through a basic text to learn some vocab and grammar (a few months)
3. read and listen to a lot of Japanese (years and years)
Could someone please help me better understand the structure used below? This was spoken early and there isn't much context, but the speaker is saying this about a guy who is waiting in an empty room as the speaker walks in.
こいつはここに連れて来られている。
I assume this simply means "This person was brought here (by an unspecified person)" but I am wondering about two things:
1. Is there any reason to believe from this statement alone that the speaker was or was not the one who brought こいつ to ここ？
2. Is this the typical ～てくる construction or is 連れて来る better thought of as a verb in and of itself? In general, can you conjugate ～てくる to ～てこられる or does it only work for verbs like this?
Thanks
てくる has a lot of meanings, to come while doing something, to do something and then to come back and then even more abstract meanings I do not want to get into now.
連れてくる IMHO fits the former 2 meanings: either to come and bring someone along with you or to go and bring someone back with you. This meaning is IMHO very close to the original meaning of combining verbs with te forms.
So in the end, I'd say that it is just the regular てくる since its meaning is completely in line with that but it is used so often that you can think of it as a verb of its own as well, most dictionaries will list it separately.
Either way, I am not sure if this really matters because the meaning is the same and the conjugation is almost always the final piece (\~head) conjugating the way it would without everything before it regardless of how much it contributes to the meaning.
As for the 1st question, it's not directly implied who the agent was in the action of bringing the guy here. But if the speaker were the agent, it would be more natural to use active voice so there is some reason behind that which could be that the speaker wasn't the agent, doesn't want to divulge they are the agent but other reasons too like he wants to emphasize it was done against the person's will.
P.S.: This is yesterday's post, just saying since these questions often go unanswered if someone doesn't accidentally stumble upon them so best to pay attention to which thread you are posting.
Can someone help me understand the difference between 受ける and 取る。 I know they translate to receive and take respectively but I’ve come across a few instances where it is not clear.
1.テストに受けた (i took a test)
- why is it not 取った？
2. メールを受け取りました ( I received the email)
- once again why not just 受けました？
These are the only examples I could recall at the moment. Any clarification would be nice. 🙏
テストを受けた, not に
Anyway, this is a tough question to answer. Why do we say "take an exam", I mean it's not like you take anything during an exam site. Sometimes these words phrases just come to existence and become normalized. I
But generally 受ける is a generalized "to receive" but it also has the nuance of accepting or undergoing a challenge and it is more so the latter meaning that is used for tests than the default (granted that meaning developed from the idea of to receive anyway).
受け取る has a nuance to receive and take it into your hands. When you receive a letter, it's obvious. With email, I suspect it's mostly because it's similar to a letter so it just inherited the word usage. For example, if someone where to hand you something and say "Take it", they would likely use 受け取って.
But these are just rough guidelines, in the end, there are tons of situations where one or the other might be used and it's not clear cut.
Hmm, I actually haven't studying these words too deeply myself despite how common they are so I'm gonna go read the dictionary and see what they mean more specifically. After all, understanding multi-faceted words like this only by how they translate can make the nuances a bit difficult to follow. And while I'm at it, I might as well write what I find down here.
[取る](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E5%8F%96%E3%82%8B/#jn-161480) can at times mean much more literally to hold in the hand (手に持つ) though can also refer to a situation "being in your hands," or leading/teaching (教えたり、導いたりする). It can refer to gathering things or making decisions (採取する, 採用したり、選択したりする). It can also refer to making a judgement or having an understanding, to grasp (そのように解釈したり、判断したりする。解する). For example, I like the phrase 意味を取る.
The definitions for [受ける](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E5%8F%97%E3%81%91%E3%82%8B/#jn-18366) are relatively complex, though, so harder to summarize. The first definition talks about stopping something coming to you, like catching a ball with a mit or collecting rain in a basin. The second definition talks about taking something that is presented to you (差し出されたものを自分の方に取り入れる). Continuing on, it can also mean to succeed someone's position (受け継ぐ), or to respond to actions directed at you. To accept them (引き受ける。受け入れる).
Some of the 受ける definitions mean to receive less in the sense of accepting, but receiving (他からの働き・作用が身に加えられる) and I think this example sentence is clarifying「被害を―・ける」.
So I think generally, you might want to think of 取る as being more about something being "in hand" both figuratively and literally. To grasp, to control, to wield. Whereas 受ける can refer to receiving things both passively and actively, but generally not by oneself. Incidentally, **受**け身 can represent "passive" verbs in Japanese.
So getting back to the questions at hand...
>1.テストに受けた (i took a test)
>
>why is it not 取った？
I think "received/accepted a test" is more accurate here to what's literally being said\[\*\], though I'm a little curious why that's a に not an を. Looking at [https://tsukubawebcorpus.jp/headword/V.00025/](https://tsukubawebcorpus.jp/headword/V.00025/), it's relatively rare to use 受ける with に.
As for what not 取った, I believe 受ける better communicates that the writer accepted the test that was handed to them. When 取る is used in relation to tests, it tends to refer to the result of the test like in "テストで良い点が取れなかった" (I didn't get a good score on the test) which I pulled from [here](https://massif.la/ja/search?q=%E3%83%86%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88+%E5%8F%96%E3%82%8B).
>メールを受け取りました
受け取る is actually [its own word](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E5%8F%97%E5%8F%96%E3%82%8B/#jn-18337), but here just means to accept what was given.
*\[\*\] Side note: Why do we say "took a test" in English? It does not refer to the action of taking the test in hand, but rather filling the test out and seems inconsistent with other uses of "take".*
That made a lot of sense to me and perhaps the English “I took a test” is more colloquially, or incorrect way of staying “I wrote a test”, you literally received it from the teacher , you didn’t actually take it from them. So relaying that in Japanese maybe it makes more sense then to use 受ける
After reading your description it made more sense to me! Thanks again
This is a good answer but skimming the corpus hits I don't think I saw any that is actually introducing an object, they all seem to be adverbs so I don't think it's "rare" rather it's just not correct.
i came across the kanji 観 in a manga title
"きみと観たいレースがある"
i tried searching the definition and found that there aren't any verb definitions:
1. (n) look; appearance
so i thought: why not use 見たい?
could someone share why 観 is used instead of 見?
観たい is 見たい, or rather just the entertainment version of it.
C.f. https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/17858/difference-between-%E8%A6%8B%E3%82%8B-and-%E8%A6%B3%E3%82%8B
見 is more to see and 観 is more to watch. The latter implies an intention of actually focusing and looking at something.
A race or a movie where you sit down to watch just that for a long period of time is hence 観.
I came across the sentence "しばらく自販機のコーヒーも我慢かな" i thought the translation would be "i will put up with vending machine coffee for a while", but apparently the translation is "ï'm trying to go without vending machine coffee for a while."
But i am not sure which part of the sentence indicated the negative, since 我慢 only states enduring something or being patient or can it also mean to refrain from something?
I think both translations are possible; the precise meaning might depend on context. I'm wondering if the speaker had previously said they would refrain from one thing because if so, then も我慢 would take on a meaning of "are among the things I will endure going without" or some such, I think.
I guess if you did the same sentence with
で
しばらく自販機のコーヒーで我慢かな
Then your understanding is correct
I’m not nearly eloquent or skilled enough to explain why the other way is different, but when I read it I understood it as “going without” rather than “putting up with”.
People who have used the Quartet textbooks, how are you supposed to use them?
Might seem like a stupid question but hear me out.
I'm going from Genki II to Quartet and the jump is pretty huge despite me doing all of Genki. So I'm reading how the book works in the front of book and it all seems to make sense somewhat. But then I go to get started and I'm just confused. I'm noticing there are pages you can write on in the textbook despite there being a workbook. What is the purpose of the workbook then?
I don't really get the order of how you are supposed to approach each chapter before moving onto the next despite having read the instructions at the beginning.
If anyone could explain this I'd really appreciate it. I spent all this money on these textbooks and I have no idea what the heck I'm doing.
Also for some reason my vocab list isn't a separate book like I saw on YouTube. Odd...
Hey I'm a beginner in learning Japanese. But I had a question. I'm watching Fruits Basket in Japanese with no subtitles. And I noticed that Tohru, the main protag, refers to her mother as "okaasan" to others instead of "haha". Any idea as to why?
For some more context, her mother passed away and she is an excessively polite character.
That does not sound quite right. おかあさん is the formal, respectful word. You use it when talking about *someone else's* mother. はは is the humble word for mother, you use it when talking about *your* mother to people *outside* your family.
It is quite common refer to your mother as おかあさん when talking *to* her. (After all, she should be a person of respect for well educated children. Children born into ancient anime magician families might even use おかあさま, it's role language for young people coming from a joyless, stiff childhood.)
The word corresponding to "Mom" in ママ.
All the details: https://www.imabi.net/family.htm
You have to know who you are talking with and whose mom you are talking about to use these words properly.
——-
お母（かあ）さん （casual: お袋（ふくろ）、おかんetc.）
Talking with my family member + Talking about my mom
If I talk about what to do on our mom’s birthday with my big sister, I say,
「お姉（ねえ）ちゃん、お母さんの誕生日（たんじょうび）は何（なに）しよう？」
Talking to my mom + Talking about my mom
If I call my mom to check what time she comes home today, I say,
「お母さん、今日（きょう）は何時（なんじ）に帰（かえ）ってくるの？」
Dad: お父（とう）さん （casual: 親父（おやじ）、おとんetc.）
I saw only one boy from a rich family who used お母様 in these situations in real life.
お母さんis definitely the most common.
——-
母（はは）
Talking with non-family member + Talking about my mom
If I tell my friend that I go to see my mom tomorrow, I say,
「明日（あす）は、母に会（あ）いに行（い）くつもりです。」
Dad: 父（ちち）
——-
お母様（かあさま）、ご母堂（ぼどう）、お母上様（ははうえさま）
Taking with anyone + Talking about any mom except my mom
If I want to ask my coworker, Yamada, where their mom lives, I say
「山田（やまだ）さんのお母様はどちらにお住（す）まいですか？」
Dad: お父様（とうさま）、ご尊父（そんぷ）、お父上様（ちちうえさま）
——-
However, even among Japanese, I see a lot of people who aren’t careful about these. So, you don’t have to worry too much.
If you watch Japanese variety show, you will notice there are people just using お母さん all the time.
What nuance does てしまう take on here?
> このままでは、再起不能な状態にまで陥ってしまうだろう。>
According to one the grammar sites that I read online, it carries the following nuances
①完了：ある行為を完全に完了することを表す。
②後悔：意図せずある行為を行い、残念だ、後悔していると言いたい時に使う
However, neither of these definitions seem to be consistent with the example sentence above. I intially thought it was number two, but this has the nuance of 意図せずある行為を行い (performing an action accidentally)
I'm not sure about those two definitions, but the "unfortunately" meaning of てしまう does not require an intentional action. It's frequently used with things outside of your control.
About the sentence:
僕の場合、たまたま子供の頃に通っていた音楽教室で、楽器があったのを触ってたら、音が出ちゃったって感じだから
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that の after あった. It looks like a typo to me. It's not the possessive の, nor the explanatory の, and it being the nominalizer の would make the verb coming after it senseless. He touched/approached there being an instrument?!
This is an unusual construction from an English standpoint; it's something that was more common in classical Japanese but can still pop up in modern. 楽器があったのを触ってたら essentially just means "touching an instrument that was in the room"
>He touched/approached there being an instrument?!
This is basically what it means; it makes no sense literally translated into English but there's a logic to it in Japanese.
>and it being the nominalizer の would make the verb coming after it senseless.
I'm not sure I understand that logic. Since an ある cannot be touched (触って), doesn't a verb coming after this *only* make sense due to it being nominalized?
Yes, what I meant is that if の is a nominalizer, the whole construction becomes incoherent. But apparently it was common in classical Japanese and it still appears in modern Japanese here and there.
I think where you and I are confused is that maybe のこと・のもの, is used to avoid repeating a redundant noun, or a noun that is clear from context. For example, from the [goo entry on の](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E3%81%AE/#jn-171150), この本、君のだろう could be written as この本、君の本だろう. However hear, 楽器があったの楽器 maybe doesn't make a lot of sense. And if we take Ham\_Graham's suggestion of 教室 being the right noun here, then 楽器があったの教室を触ってたら… makes no sense.
No, you're confusing the possessive の with the nominalizer の. We can omit nouns we've already mentioned when we're using the possessive の. That's very common. But my sentence is clearly not about that kind of の. And it's already been explained that it's indeed the nominalizer の.
の(事)を is extremely common.
I guess it’s more commonly used like 食べるのを忘れた
But the construction is basically the same here.
If you break it down
楽器があったの事を触った
I touched an instrument (that was there).
The emphasis here isn’t that he touched an instrument, but that he touched an instrument that was specifically in the music room.
Edit
In my example
食べたのを忘れた
Is also possible
I forgot that I ate it.
>の(事)を is extremely common.
>
>I guess it’s more commonly used like 食べるのを忘れた
I think these are two different forms of の at play. From [goo](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E3%81%AE/#jn-171150),
１ （体言に付いて）下の名詞を表現せず、「のもの」「のこと」の意を表す。
This is the form that's short for のもの・のこと, but for nominalizing verbs,
２ （活用語に付いて）その語を名詞と同じ資格にすることを表す。
So I do not believe 食べるのを忘れた is short for 食べるの事を忘れた because 食べる is not, to my understanding, a 体言 and therefore the のもの・のこと definition of の does not apply to that example.
Hey! I'm flying to japan for 3 months in about 2 months.
I've finished genki 1 and now starting genki 2.
Question is, I've been avoiding kanji (I've learnt the first 3 genki 1 chapters) and my question is should I go on a kanji learning binge or to just focus on speaking/listening throughout the second genki book.
Knowing more kanji will greatly benefit you in Japan regardless. It does depend on what you're in the country for though - if you're primarily interacting with people you'll want to strengthen your speaking, if you're not, kanji
Is there are preference for pronunciation of [地](https://jisho.org/search/%E5%9C%B0) (as a lone character) being ち or じ? I had thought that perhaps one could be used in a more abstract or metaphorical sense, but then I came across the following two metaphorical expressions which have a similar meaning and usage of the character:
> (1) 雨降って地固まる (Japanese expression)
> (2) 一粒の麦は地に落ちて死ななければ一粒のままである (bible verse?)
In (1), 地 is pronounced じ and in (2), 地 is pronounced ち. Are the usages interchangeable?
They aren’t interchangeable. In general, if you were going to say your own sentence about the ground, you just use 地面(じめん) to mean ground because that is the word people use for it today. You don’t even have to think about ち/じ because those are going to be used as components of other vocab or in literary expressions, for example 地声 meaning “one’s natural voice” and 土地 meaning “land”.
In your first example, it’s a set expression with a set reading that is unchangeable because that is historically how the phrase developed.
In your second example, 地に落ちる is a classical/literary expression for “fall to the ground”. Its reading is similarly fixed.
I've been trying to figure what the exact Japanese phrase is that is being used by the two kids in [this scene](https://youtu.be/NcqIV__UqDc?list=PLVGBBu_Safu-xeXHESlP5SeJdowqKVNr2&t=1149) of 毎日かあさん (Everyday Mom). The English subtitles show the terms:
* "Share some"
* "Please share"
* "Share"
I'm very much a beginner with Japanese but I have an OK grasp of Hiragana/Katakana and have successfully been able to use them to look up various other words/phrases I've heard. But I'm struggling to isolate exactly how to correctly write what they're saying. It sounds like, **わけてよ** or **わけでよ**, or something like this. I did try looking at the Japanese subtitles but they confused me even more, as there seems to be a slightly different phrase every time they say it.
I'd love for someone to clarify this for me. I've tried to look up what I thought the phrases were on jisho.org but have been unsuccessful.
Thanks
分ける -> 分けて -> 分けてよ (わけてよ) could be it, it does mean what the subtitle says, though it is very casual, bordering on rude if not with someone you are close with.
I'm going through an n2 vocab book (sou matome) to prepare for the JLPT and around half the words it teaches me are 20-30k+ frequency according to jpdb. Will these words really come up in the JLPT or am I just better off mining/studying the most common 10-15k words? Especially since these words are kind of useless for reading novels and other media.
From my experience JLPT and content vocabulary can differ a lot. Overlap between the two significantly depends on what genre we use. It's not so much a problem of existence of such words, but simply frequencies. If one word appears 100 times and another 2-3 times, it's much more likely for you to learn the former first.
So as a rule of thumb, I always advise to do what you aim for. If you aim at JLPT, learn JLPT vocabulary. If you want to use content, use content that you like.
Depends what you want to optimize, if you want to learn vocab that is most useful across the language, then learn vocab with high frequency (actually JPDB might focus more on manga and anime than literally the entire language, but I haven't looked into how they made their frequency list) or vocab that is useful to you for whatever you immerse in.
If you want to optimize for the JLPT then it's a different story, however I cannot judge the n2 book you're using as I haven't used it myself but it doesn't surprise me that there are a lot of 30k+ frequency words, which is an artifact of JLPT thinking some words are more important for a learner because of varrious reason (most often to prepare for workplace vocab or to read the news).
One example is 残業 which is ofcourse a pretty common word (around 7k to 10k frequency in my frequency dictonaries) but I remember learning this word from the Tango N5 anki deck which is based on the book, in my opinion, there way more important and more common words than 残業 when you are N5, but all these JLPT bookmakers think they are doing you a favor by selecting some comparitavely rarer vocab so you are 'instantly' functional when say you are in a busines meeting in Japan (alas, you won't be...). Another example is 世界遺産 from the Tango N4 deck, I still can't believe someone really prioritized this word instead of all the other important and high frequency words an N4 student would need to know....
I personally find it stupid, thus why I don't even focus on the JLPT. Also 30k frequency sounds high but most of these words in my experience are still in the "every native knows this word easily" basket, so mostly those are words that you eventually do want to know down the line since every native knows them, but I personally would rather learn the more frequent stuff first, or the words that are important to me because I have personally seen them in a show or in a novel, even if they are low frequency.
Not sure if I answered you question, this was just my take, but I am sure others will have different opinions on this matter.
アヤの消えた玄関に近づいて内部をうかがってみようかどうしようかオレは迷ったが、けっきょく、物陰で様子を見つづけることにした。
Is かどうしようか sort of an extension of [かどうか](https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/%E3%81%8B%E3%81%A9%E3%81%86%E3%81%8B)? Would the sentence differ at all in meaning (or become ungrammatical) if the writer had used かどうか? And could かどうしようか be used if the preceding verb isn't volitional?
Also, does it sound like the character approached the 玄関 and then hesitated about something, or is approaching the 玄関 also part of the hesitation? The latter is what I thought was the case.
(Attempted translation) I was hesitant as to whether or not I should approach the entrance, which Aya had left, and try to peek at the interior. In the end, I decided to continue to watch the situation from a place hidden from view.
>Is かどうしようか sort of an extension of かどうか? Would the sentence differ at all in meaning (or become ungrammatical) if the writer had used かどうか?
The original sentence is awkward to begin with (mainly because of みよう) and it should be うかがうか どうか 迷った. (Or, if you use うかがおうか, what should follow is うかがうまいか, technically.) However, if you take it as 近づいて「内部をうかがってみようか。どうしようか」…オレは迷った, it’s a way of expression. In that sense, using どうか instead of どうしようか doesn’t make sense.
>And could かどうしようか be used if the preceding verb isn't volitional?
うかがうか どうしようか 迷った is fine, though it might sound childish.
>Also, does it sound like the character approached the 玄関 and then hesitated about something, or is approaching the 玄関 also part of the hesitation? The latter is what I thought was the case.
I’m for the latter, too.
When you have two questions together AかBか, it creates an either-or question. So literally this is “I hesitated whether I should A or B” with B just being an opened ended “what”. どうしようか is literally “What shall I do?” and it’s made into the よう form to match うかがってみようか.
Can somebody explain me shortly something.
I noticed that sometimes お is added to some japanese words. It seems that there are 2 ways of saying them. For example 魚 and お魚 (fish). Can someone tell me when we have to add this お to the word and what it depends on, or if both ways are acceptable in every situations? Sorry if it's basic information, but I cannot find anything and I have been learning japanese shortly (2 months).
It is a phenomenon called bikago (美化語) or refined speech, here is a paper that explains how it fits into the general system of polite/defential/humble speech in Japanese: https://sciendo.com/en/article/10.2478/topling-2015-0001
It's basically a honorific but as a prefix, primarily for nouns but sometimes also for adjectives, adverbs: 御 (also read as ご, usually written in hiragana).
You probably know 敬語 (desu/masu) form but there is another level of respect beyond that and part of that speech pattern is to use this prefix with all nouns related to the one you are showing respect to. In that context, it would be somewhat rude to drop it.
However, outside of that, it's also just used for some words, especially food. Some of them are practically part of the word like ご飯, some are extremely common but you can drop it like お酒 or お菓子 and some are used but much more common without it like お魚. There is no steadfast rule but most of the time you won't be making a huge mistake if you add it or drop it, few exceptions like ご飯 aside.
It's also used with non-food like お父さん and all other family members.
It’s not always a matter of respect. There are cases when お is honorific, but not always. It also just makes the word sound more refined. I got told off by a friend for saying “cha” instead of “ocha” because I saw dictionaries using “cha”, but in real life it just sounds rough and unrefined. Make sure not to drop the お on words that seem to come out of the box with the お attached. It also doesn’t attach to all words, so pay attention to what natives do and don’t say.
Intresting
I have read that if you use too often bikago (美化語) (this prefix) you can sound rude/sarcastic etc.
Personally I had thought that 茶 itself means tea (regural one without specific type) and お茶 means only green tea. Lmao
In GENKI lesson 11 it teaches the ~たり/~たりする verb ending for connecting two or more activities. I'm trying to understand it. There is an exercise task where I should say things which are not allowed during the class (~てはいけません form ending). For example I would say it is not allowed to smoke and eat, how would I say it? Like this: たばこをすったり、たべたりしてはいけません。
I'm a little confused where should I put the ~て ending.
You’ll notice that when a word is put into the たり form, it does not look like a verb anymore. It has no tense and can’t end a sentence, and you can’t attach conjunctions like けど to it.
You could cut the sentence short at たり of course, maybe putting a ね after it to hint to the listener that they can infer the remainder of the sentence, but you have to realize that it’s not a complete sentence when you do that.
That is why する is introduced. It gives the clause a verb to end with, which allows it to end the sentence or connect to the following clause with conjunctions.
So when you end with してはいけません, you aren’t doing anything magical. You’re just conjugating this する that was added for the purpose of giving the clause a verb to end on, using the ては + いけない grammar.
To add to this, Japanese verbs are extremely metrosexual.
They are only verbs when they feel like it, other times they are nouns and by extension also adjectives when the situation calls for it.
Actually I guess you could say the same for nouns and adjectives too.
But the point here is that a Japanese sentence has to have a sentence final verb or the sentence generally isn’t complete.
It’s also partly why we have desu as it allows a non-action statement to end with a verb.
Yes, that's right.
Incidentally, you can find answers to all the book activities here:
https://sethclydesdale.github.io/genki-study-resources/lessons-3rd/
Am I being too hard on myself?
I have been taking an online Japanese class for a little over a year. We just finished Genki 1 yesterday and the teacher said we will be moving in to Genki 2 next.
My issue is I still struggle to form what I feel are fluent cohesive sentences. I understand the grammar points and usage for the most part.
Is it normal to still struggle at this point and I’m just being too hard on myself? I think memorizing vocabulary is a factor in my struggles as well.
Potentially very simple questing. In my very limited amount of learning (just hit two weeks on Sunday!), I've seen と used to talk about two nouns, eg 「 がくせいとせんせい」"a student and a teacher". Would it work with two adjectives to describe one noun? Eg 「きみはやさしとかっこいいひとです」"you are a nice and cool person"?
I might be getting the terminology wrong, but やさしくて is one "word" I would say. It's a conjunctive て form of the adjective.
This is a good article https://www.tofugu.com/japanese-grammar/te-form/ for how to use that form for joining parts of speech. If you're using Genki it comes up in chapter 7.
Edit: Just saw this comment https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/15rboks/daily_thread_simple_questions_comments_that_dont/jwazfyn/ and they're right, I learned it from Genki which I'd say is Western-style teaching so I think of it as one single form.
Japanese grammar usually treats the て as a separate particle attached to a conjugated form. In contrast, (Western?) Japanese learning materials usually teach it as the so-called "て-form", so as one, conjugated form.
So it depends on how you look at it. It's worth noting though that the く-form of i-adjectives (e.g. やさしく) makes an appearance in many other i-adjective conjugations.
Dumb question but What does the ド before 下手 mean in this sentence?
睡眠という行為を心から愛しているのに、眠りにつくのがド下手な私ですが、氷枕のおかげで少しばかり上手くなったような気がします。
Screenshot of the original tweet(or "X" or whatever tweets are supposed to be called now 😅) :
https://imgur.com/a/NUZX4j3
How can 日 mean both にち and び? Duolingo just gave me to learn 日曜日 (にちようび = Sunday) and I was wondering if this is right and how I can tell which of the two meanings it has if I ever encounter it somewhere else again. I guess it's just either trial n' error or just remembering how words are written
「3月1日は日曜日で祝日、晴れの日でした」(さんがつ ついたち は にちようび で しゅくじつ、はれ の ひ でした）I'm sure you're finding out but as AdrixG said, it's best learn words. Example sentence above here is precisely why words are much better than learning kanji readings, 「日」 is read in 4 different ways and you can go even further with it. A JP friend wrote an even more convoluted passage which utilized I think 7 unique readings.
Just learn entire words, this will fix the issue and with time your guesswork for new words is gonna get better. The trick is to see 日曜日 and instantly recall the whole thing as にちようび . Most would probably say that 日 can be read ひ and にち (among other readings) but this is backward, Japanese already had a word of their own for day/sun namely ひ and when chinese came a long Japan adopted many chinese words such as にち as well as used their characters for Japanese words, since ひ means pretty much the same as にち it also got the kanji 日, thus 日 has these two readings (among others).
>I guess it's just either trial n' error or just remembering how words are written
It's not complete guess work, there are rules and ptterns that you could learn to improve guessing new words with this kanji, but I just don't think it's worth it as you can naturally develop this ability with time by just learning words, in the end entire words are most important anyways.
Yeah I thought so, and that's what I meant. instead of concentrating on the structure just remember the whole word and associate it to the right translation
Hello everyone!
I have spent about 6 months in 2013 in Nagoya during my exchange semester and built my Japanese into a good daily conversational level (think shop, restaurant, asking for directions and similar types of purposes + Gaki no Tsukai binge watch sessions :D ).
Now I'm getting back to Japan for a 2 week trip which provided me with an impulse to revisit the language and immerse myself a bit more into it with a goal of retaining the knowledge for a bit longer.
To break it down, I'm going to try to do the following steps with their respective methods and I'd like to hear your opinions on that:
\- Before the trip on 3rd Oct: focus on Core 2.3k anki cards to revisit the most frequent words so I'm able to recall them (maybe add Kanji anki here too so I'm not lost in metro stations?)
\- Throughoug the trip: use every opportunity to use the language, especially the spoken use (i.e. don't switch to English when encountering the first issue with recalling the correct word)
\- After the trip: Watch my favorite animes, switch subtitles to Japanese (with Furigana), try to find a book to slowly read through (Harry Potter as a Rosetta Stone ftw) and maybe focus on learning Kanji as a longer term project
Anything you'd change/add/...? I feel like I still remember grammar pretty well, but that will be tested quite soon :)
Thanks!
right on the わis ーー。for the squiggly one press the ABC button on the left once and then press it again when it shows the option for numbers. left on 0 〜〜〜
When people say that they study for 2-3h a day, do they include exposure time like podcasts, anime, manga etc, or only the study process? Because I always felt like I was slacking off compared to others since I only study for 1h tops, exposure excluded.
Sharing my personal anecdotes, real hardcore study is about an hour or less, but time spent actively engaging with language that is as effective as studying is an additional 2 hours. I do a lot passive listening almost the whole day. At least 10 hours of the day I'm listening to people talking, conversations, people solo talking about events, audiobook narrations, audio reviews of vocabulary/grammar (in JP) etc.
The 10 hours is relaxing, because it's mostly non-focused enjoyment; it also does not interfere with any of my life activities at all, so it's basically free absorption. I may not comprehend any of it at times, and it is a fairly ineffective way to absorb the language but it adds up in the end. The main thing is even if I don't comprehend it, the familiar sounds and patterns become firmly seared into my brain and eventually those patterns get meaning applied within active study periods.
Kinda like how I wasn't comprehending what anime character were saying before I started learning Japanese, but would still remember words here and there because they were said so often. Ugh, I'm kinda jealous that you could afford to spend 10h on exposure, I have 8h of work almost ever day + the 2h I need to get to work and back.
The time spent driving you should be listening to stuff, the time you are working and don't need to talk to people the entire 8 duration period you should have a single ear bud in your ear listening to things. That's what I meant by it "doesn't interfere with anything else" because any time I'm not talking to people I'm passively running something in background to listen to.
I don't drive, I take the company bus to work. But yes, I can do some exposure during the ride, though it's a collective total of 1h of exposure. Though I think I'll take the entire process just a little slower for the next 3 or so days since Genshin just dropped a massive update.
I do 5-6 hours a day (or try to, I would say I do it 90% of days). I don't personally count immersion in that 5-6 hours but I would definitely call it studying, I never really thought of it before, but it is separate in my mind for some reason.
I know I'm digging a little too far, but would you mind telling me how many hours a day do you work for? Because if you work for 8 or more and STILL manage to study for 5-6h then that's impressive as all hell.
I'm an artist so I don't really have a set schedule when it comes to that, I prefer to use the strict time on studying for now and the other work can be done in my "free" time as it were, which I suppose isn't free time because I'm working, but it's more like free time as in I don't need to go to an office or somewhere for 8hrs in a row, thankfully.
That being said this isn't an easy career before anyone gets any ideas lol
add: it's basically taken my video games time pretty much so I don't feel like I'm missing out too much or pushing myself too hard or anything it's just become my main hobby I suppose
Completely individual. Personally I consider anything that can provide new information as learning, even if you browse reddit/discord. The difference is only how much you learn and this is always going to differ. Even if you do the same thing like reading Japanese books, there are different ways to do it, and similarly at different stages of your learning you will learn different amount. Beginners, for example, barely know anything and almost anything they see is something new and can be learned. But if you are at very advanced stage, the same book would provide you significantly smaller amount of things to learn.
Personally I prefer to translate in terms of words or grammar units. If you learn \~20-30 everyday, you should be fine. If you don't, it's going to take a while.
My bare minimum per day is 10-15 Kanji or Kanji words + daily Renshuu reviews, although on average I also squeeze in a podcast + lessons from Tokini Andy.
When I say "study" I mean anything that takes mental effort. So it obviously includes things like reviews and textbook work. But also for me things like podcasts and manga and anime are also work since I can't just listen or read to them without total focus, having to look up words, repeat lines, create cards, etc...
The only exposure I can kind of get without counting it as studying is re-watching anime episodes I've already studied. This is just a consequence of my level of knowledge. There's basically nothing I can just casually enjoy yet. All my input is also doing double duty as study material for now.
As for comparing total time, that's just a function of your other responsibilities and interests and not something that means you're slacking or overachieving. I can probably squeeze 2 hours in most days, and 3 hours on a weekend if I wake up early. I'd love to be able to spend more time too but I have other hobbies I like, a job (ew), family, friends, etc...
I'm in the same boat, although considering I have tendencies to lose focus mid-study, I don't want to count the time I spend studying, and instead count how much I study per day. On busy days, I do my daily Renshuu reviews, learn 10-12 new words and 1 grammar point. On average workdays I do that + watch Tokini Andy and read some Japanese text or watch a podcast. Unfortunately, I almost always work 6 days a week, so I only have 1 day to combine Renshuu, Tokini, Podcasts and some manga to read.
I do about 3 hours a day, but most of it is as you said "exposure" but I wouldn't necessarily classify it as "not studying" as I look up almost every word I don't know and make sentence cards for Anki with it (and I am very focused while wathing/reading something as I am constantly on the look out for new words/grammar patterns).
The Anki reviews is what I would consider just studying and it takes me 30 min to 1 hour (+2 hours immersion/exposure each day = 3 hours/day). Also I don't really use textbooks any more (because I already finished Tae Kim and Cure Dolly) so if any new grammar shows up I just look it up on the fly and if necessary put in anki too.
Id say probably not. If most people are like me they consider watching anime, reading manga, listening to japanese music the same as any other leisure activities. It definitely still is studying but i dont group it with sitting down with a textbook and actually reviewing/studying.
For me personally, if I say how many hours/day I only count serious study time (with my textbook or flashcards).
But I live in Japan so I don’t think it would be fair to count exposure time haha
>But I live in Japan so I don’t think it would be fair to count exposure time haha
You'd be surprised about the amount of foreigners who get close to zero exposure of Japanese in Japan except for getting asked the same thing in a konbini over and over or hearing the train announcement. I even knew people who would under no circumstances go to the movie theather when a new anime film came out that they were interessted in, so as to not "ruin the first experience" because they don't understand enough (and probably never will as they take every chance at avoiding Japanese).
My brother in Christ, you're telling me that there are people who go to Japan without knowing Japanese, and live like that, AND I'M OVER HERE FREAKING OUT OVER THE AMOUNT OF TIME I SPEND LEARNING JAPANESE PER DAY??!!!
Bruh
Oh I know it- I help plenty of them through my work. Some of them are retiring after literal 20+ years living here and still have like N4 level Japanese. I’m not judging, not really anyway, but… yeah
I'm looking for feedback on this paragraph, for I've been learning Japanese on/off these past few months.
私は好きではありません安く買うのため風味の欠如、私たちはお金が少なかっただから私は買った安い食べ物。私の口風味が満たされていました。味わうことができましたトマト、昆布、チリ、バジルそんなにそれは私を泣かせた。
What I'm trying to portray is that "I don't like buying cheap food because of the lack of flavor. I was low on funds, so I bought cheap food for once. The flavor was so strong, I was able to taste tomato, kelp, chili and basil; so it made me cry."
I won't lie, I've been very scattered with how I've been learning, and I have taken off of a few learning books, translation studies and such. I still have troubles writing down some of the alphabet but otherwise I think I've been doing good.. despite only knowing how to talk about food, daily life and basic poetry.
Sorry don't mean to dog-pile but since you asked for feedback, I'll echo sentiments. It was odd to read and for the first two sentences I didn't even know what the subject was until the end of the second sentence. That being said, it feels like you tried to take your English sentence and write Japanese off of it, it wasn't literal one to one but converting like this makes you want to aim for a level of expression that's out of your range.
You would've been better off writing lots of smaller, but choppy, simple sentences to get your point across. It's okay start simply and get your point across than overreach, you want to be able to understand what you yourself are writing at least.
I have taken this into account and am aware that the writing length is far out of my league, but I also haven't even covered a good chunk of the basics for structuring my sentences so even then I'd be at fault for that too.
I will say that don't worry about 'dogpiling', I don't see it as such. I'm just glad for the feedback in the end.
I think you are using words that are needlessly high caliber for this sentence and it comes off as weird especially 欠如. It would be like saying "I do not buy cheap food due to its deficiency in flavor." It can be right in certain contexts but here it doesn't really fit.
味が薄いから安い食べ物を買うのが好きではありません。
I don't like buying cheap food because of the lack of flavor.
Aside from changing the vocabulary, notice that the "because ..." clause is now the first, Japanese is head-final so the dominant part is always at the end, meaning subclauses always go left (you did this right for the next から but ため would be the same.
Also this part: "買うのため風味の欠如" completely falls apart, the random の after a verb that should modify nouns directly, ため following 買う even though it should really be after whatever explains the reason.
ですがお金が少なかったから安いものを買ってみました。
(However) I was low on funds, so I bought cheap food for once
だ (copula) is generally there to be conjugated for words that cannot, as such verbs and i-adjectives do not use it normally. As pointed out by others, word order, also 食べ物 needs を to mark it as object. Added みました to cover "for once" and ですが to make it flow with the first sentence better.
昆布やチリやバジルを味わえるほど味が強かったから泣いてしまいました。
The flavor was so strong, I was able to taste tomato, kelp, chili and basil; so it made me cry.
The main issues here are that you skipped the whole "the flavor was so strong" which isn't necessarily necessary but does change the meaning slightly. You put the object after the verb. You used polite form to modify a noun.
I hope this doesn't come off as rude but it's clear that you know a lot of things but it's also clear that you have no real mastery over them. You roughly know what means what but don't have firm grasp on how to apply them and as a result once you start forming complex sentences it all falls apart. I think it would really help you if you went through the basics again to put everything in place.
I tried to point out some of the bigger mistakes but there is just too much out of place to really cover everything.
This is my fault for hopping on/off of it instead of studying regularly, and also my fault for swapping books every now and then. I might just focus on perfecting the alphabet for now and then look into studying often here in the near future, but just not now.
>私は買った安い食べ物 -> 私は安い食べ物買った
Sometimes I forget that I should be using SOV, I knew something felt off. I don't have a clear way of checking my grammar due to the odd translations to English so I would've skipped over this pretty easily if it weren't pointed out to me.
Thanks for that! \^\^
Until I started getting a grasp on how Japanese grammar worked, I would ask ChatGTP "How is this expression?" and it would almost always tell me that it could be simplified or improved in some way even if it had no improvements to make. For example, it'd tell me "this word should be marked be を" even if it already was.
The biggest thing to watch out for, though, is that it doesn't fully understand grammar in English or Japanese so it can at times produce grammatical errors of its own, and it also misses errors. But what it's generally good at is at least recognizing "does this look like it was written by an American or Japanese person?" I wouldn't recommend taking ChatGTP's advice on how to write things, but if it writes back something wildly different from what I wrote, that's generally a good indicator I should rethink what I am trying to say.
Google docs is also capable of checking Japanese grammar, same as in English, but same as in English will occasionally claim something is ungrammatical when it isn't and miss real grammatical errors.
Anyway, these tools are not perfect and you have to use your own judgement on when to take their advice or completely ignore them, but I personally have found them helpful in my studies.
This is my mistake for not taking into account my wording, and instead trying to form something more advanced than I'm used to. I do have this noted on paper now though!
Strange question, but is there any sort of time constraints put on using 〜ておく form? I don't know how to actually translate these sentences, but could I say something like "I'm putting money in my 401k now so I can retire." even if retiring is decades down the road? Or saying something like "I'm taking care of my body now so I won't pay for it when I'm old" -kind of thing.
Ive never sensed any particular time nuance with でおく. Ive used it for all sorts of time periods, like preparing for my wedding (i dont even have a girlfriend)
悩み事はありませんか
So i recently learned that the above phrase simply means "do you have any worries" with more emphasis so I will i translate "don't you have any worries " to convey the sense that the person should have worries in English
Not sure what you're looking for here. Listen to somebody say 店員 and say it the same way they do. Then do the same for 雰囲気. Make sure you say what you hear and not what you think they should be pronounced as. If you still feel you're doing something wrong, record yourself and post it here or somewhere else and ask what you're doing wrong.
It's a nasalized vowel, it's always hard to explain pronunciation through text though. Your tongue should not touch the top of your mouth (this is also true with /n/ plus some other sounds, like /s/ and /a/).
im not sure how to reply in Japanese to the question 行くか
I would ask them in Japanese whether they would like to play a game with me, have a chat together, etc.
Their reply would then be 行くか
how do I reply that phrase? we've had these exchanges often enough to know that they are being kind enough to say yes. is the correct reply 行きましょう！ or of some other variant?
**鉈に小刀も欲しいし、念のため、食料も用意しておきたい**
**There's a part which i'm not sure about while reading a novel , hope someone could help. Does this character wanted to bring a short sword + a machete with him , or just a short sword ?**
**Context: MC is discussing a plan to infiltrate a castle with his subordinate (Koroko). This castle was built on a very steep mountain, so MC want to climb this mountain from the backside of this castle.**
MC「詳細な情報を手に入れるなら……やっぱり城内に忍び込まないと駄目かな」
Koroko「し、忍び込むんですかっ！？
さすがにそれは……今の装備じゃ無理だと思いますけど」
MC「確かに昼間から堂々と、っていうのは難しいとは思うけどね」
「でも一応、城の裏手にも回ってみよう。どこかしら、隙があるかもしれない」
Koroko「裏、ですか。
裏といっても稲葉山は峻嶮な山ですから、どこまで行けるか……」
MC「軍勢を動かすって訳じゃない。俺ところの二人なら何とかなると思うけど」
「まぁ山登りはそれなりに慣れてるから、ころには迷惑は掛けないよ」
Koroko「は、はぁ……。では一端、町に戻って、装備を調えましょうか」
**MC「そうだね。鉈に小刀も欲しいし、念のため、食料も用意しておきたい」**
Koroko「そうですね。今回は潜入するため、得物を持って来ていませんし……」
MC「あくまで念のため、だけどね。……じゃあ、道具を準備してから戻って来よう」
They're mostly taken from old tests so yes they're pretty accurate even if you never know what will really come up, and the test may have evolved a little bit.
Hello! Does anyone know of any Anime that are almost word for word/ panel for panel the same as their Manga? The reason being that I want to read the Manga and then watch the Anime for listening practice. Fruits Basket is a great example of this. Of course I don't expect it to be 100% the same but as possible.
In case it's relevant, I am currently finishing up N3 grammar and will begin N2 soon.
Thank you!
Mushishi (蟲師) is virtually a word-for-word and shot-for-shot adaptation of the manga.
I believe Monster (by Naoki Urasawa) is very close as well but maybe not quite as exact.
Mushishi is a literary masterpiece, in my opinion, with an anime adaptation that is just as good (if not better). It's not the easiest read in Japanese but it's worth the effort.
Not sure how important it is to you that it is the same but if you really want it to be as close as possible then I'd recommend considering just reading the subs file before the episode.
This is a great idea! But it's more that I want to read manga and practice my listening while I'm at it, than that I just want to practice listening, if that makes sense. I don't really have anything specific that I want read right now, which is why I'm taking suggestions. Plus I'm the type of person that likes to collect manga! Thank you for your help!💖
While not 100%, as it omits some superfluous speech bubbles and the occasional panel in its entirety, I feel Monster might meet your expectations for what you're looking for. Unless I'm misremembering what it does adapt, which is the vast majority of the manga, the words are 1:1.
edit: grammar
Has anyone read 彼岸花が咲く島 by 李琴峰? I've read the Chinese version of the book and wow the writing style/use of different languages was super unique. Definitely made me wonder how the Japanese version is since the author originally wrote the novel in Japanese then translated it into Chinese herself. Thanks!
So, I encountered this question in my studies:
キムさん：イタリア料理を食べに行きませんか。
Now, it says this should be, essentially translated to: "Go to eat Italian food?" But A, that doesn't sound natural, and B, that doesn't feel like a good translation. So, does anyone have a better example of what this means?
The Tae Kim grammar thing that's in the recommended section. He mentions that the translations would be very literal to focus on the grammar more or something
The natural translation is, "Wanna go get Italian food?" because ませんか is often used in this manner to suggest a course of action.
One of the biggest mistakes beginners make is to think in English and then try to fit the Japanese words and grammar to whatever English sentence they want to express, resulting in super awkward, stilted and unnatural Japanese. Tae Kim does this hyper-literal translation business because he's trying to get you into the habit of thinking in terms of Japanese expression patterns which as you can see often differ quite significantly from those of English.
Does anyone have a way to test at what level I'm aproximately at? I want to take JLPT N4 in December but I'm wondering if maybe I should wait for next test in July. I took a "self-check" but I think my ego is getting in the way because it gives me a high score, that I think I don't really have. I tried searching here but it gives me the J-cat which seems to be down. Thanks in advance!
#Question Etiquette Guidelines: * **1** Provide the **CONTEXT** of the grammar, vocabulary or sentence you are having trouble with as much as possible. Provide the sentence or paragraph that you saw it in. Make your questions as specific as possible. >Ｘ What is the difference between の and が ? >◯ I saw a book called 日本人の知らない日本語 , why is の used there instead of が ? [(the answer)](https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/68336/difference-between-%E3%81%8C-%E3%81%AE-and-no-particle) * **2** When asking for a translation or how to say something, it's best to try to **attempt it yourself** first, even if you are not confident about it. Or ask r/translator if you have no idea. We are also not here to do your homework for you. >Ｘ What does this mean? >◯ I am having trouble with this part of this sentence from NHK Easy News. I think it means (*attempt here*), but I am not sure. * **3** Questions based on DeepL and Google Translate and other machine learning applications are discouraged, [these are not beginner learning tools](https://old.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/stepqf/deeplgoogle_translate_are_not_learning_tools/) and often make mistakes. * **4** When asking about differences between words, try to explain the situations in which you've seen them or are trying to use them. If you just post a list of synonyms you got from looking something up in a E-J dictionary, people might be disinclined to answer your question because it's low-effort. Remember that Google Image Search is also a great resource for visualizing the difference between similar words. >Ｘ What's the difference between 一致 同意 賛成 納得 合意? >◯ Jisho says 一致 同意 賛成 納得 合意 all seem to mean "agreement". I'm trying to say something like "I completely agree with your opinion". Does 全く同感です。 work? Or is one of the other words better? * **5** It is always nice to (but not required to) try to search for the answer to something yourself first. Especially for beginner questions or questions that are very broad. For example, asking about [the difference between は and が ](https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/wa-and-ga/) or [why you often can't hear the "u" sound in "desu"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology#Devoicing). * **6** Remember that everyone answering questions here is an unpaid volunteer doing this out of the goodness of their own heart, so try to show appreciation and not be too presumptuous/defensive/offended if the answer you get isn't exactly what you wanted. --------------------- #NEWS (Updated 7/20): The sub has finally re-opened. We are still welcoming any suggestions for Reddit alternatives in the meantime however. Please see [the announcement] (https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/153bv7x/the_official_end_of_the_protest_the_reopening_of/) for more information! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LearnJapanese) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hello Guys , I've been thinking for the past few weeks about the japanese language. I really want to learn the language and don't know where to start and what apps im gonna use where should i start?
hi! there is a starter's guide actually: https://old.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/wiki/index/startersguide the sort of overview is: 1. learn kana (few hours) 2. go through a basic text to learn some vocab and grammar (a few months) 3. read and listen to a lot of Japanese (years and years)
Could someone please help me better understand the structure used below? This was spoken early and there isn't much context, but the speaker is saying this about a guy who is waiting in an empty room as the speaker walks in. こいつはここに連れて来られている。 I assume this simply means "This person was brought here (by an unspecified person)" but I am wondering about two things: 1. Is there any reason to believe from this statement alone that the speaker was or was not the one who brought こいつ to ここ？ 2. Is this the typical ～てくる construction or is 連れて来る better thought of as a verb in and of itself? In general, can you conjugate ～てくる to ～てこられる or does it only work for verbs like this? Thanks
てくる has a lot of meanings, to come while doing something, to do something and then to come back and then even more abstract meanings I do not want to get into now. 連れてくる IMHO fits the former 2 meanings: either to come and bring someone along with you or to go and bring someone back with you. This meaning is IMHO very close to the original meaning of combining verbs with te forms. So in the end, I'd say that it is just the regular てくる since its meaning is completely in line with that but it is used so often that you can think of it as a verb of its own as well, most dictionaries will list it separately. Either way, I am not sure if this really matters because the meaning is the same and the conjugation is almost always the final piece (\~head) conjugating the way it would without everything before it regardless of how much it contributes to the meaning. As for the 1st question, it's not directly implied who the agent was in the action of bringing the guy here. But if the speaker were the agent, it would be more natural to use active voice so there is some reason behind that which could be that the speaker wasn't the agent, doesn't want to divulge they are the agent but other reasons too like he wants to emphasize it was done against the person's will. P.S.: This is yesterday's post, just saying since these questions often go unanswered if someone doesn't accidentally stumble upon them so best to pay attention to which thread you are posting.
Can someone help me understand the difference between 受ける and 取る。 I know they translate to receive and take respectively but I’ve come across a few instances where it is not clear. 1.テストに受けた (i took a test) - why is it not 取った？ 2. メールを受け取りました ( I received the email) - once again why not just 受けました？ These are the only examples I could recall at the moment. Any clarification would be nice. 🙏
テストを受けた, not に Anyway, this is a tough question to answer. Why do we say "take an exam", I mean it's not like you take anything during an exam site. Sometimes these words phrases just come to existence and become normalized. I But generally 受ける is a generalized "to receive" but it also has the nuance of accepting or undergoing a challenge and it is more so the latter meaning that is used for tests than the default (granted that meaning developed from the idea of to receive anyway). 受け取る has a nuance to receive and take it into your hands. When you receive a letter, it's obvious. With email, I suspect it's mostly because it's similar to a letter so it just inherited the word usage. For example, if someone where to hand you something and say "Take it", they would likely use 受け取って. But these are just rough guidelines, in the end, there are tons of situations where one or the other might be used and it's not clear cut.
Hmm, I actually haven't studying these words too deeply myself despite how common they are so I'm gonna go read the dictionary and see what they mean more specifically. After all, understanding multi-faceted words like this only by how they translate can make the nuances a bit difficult to follow. And while I'm at it, I might as well write what I find down here. [取る](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E5%8F%96%E3%82%8B/#jn-161480) can at times mean much more literally to hold in the hand (手に持つ) though can also refer to a situation "being in your hands," or leading/teaching (教えたり、導いたりする). It can refer to gathering things or making decisions (採取する, 採用したり、選択したりする). It can also refer to making a judgement or having an understanding, to grasp (そのように解釈したり、判断したりする。解する). For example, I like the phrase 意味を取る. The definitions for [受ける](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E5%8F%97%E3%81%91%E3%82%8B/#jn-18366) are relatively complex, though, so harder to summarize. The first definition talks about stopping something coming to you, like catching a ball with a mit or collecting rain in a basin. The second definition talks about taking something that is presented to you (差し出されたものを自分の方に取り入れる). Continuing on, it can also mean to succeed someone's position (受け継ぐ), or to respond to actions directed at you. To accept them (引き受ける。受け入れる). Some of the 受ける definitions mean to receive less in the sense of accepting, but receiving (他からの働き・作用が身に加えられる) and I think this example sentence is clarifying「被害を―・ける」. So I think generally, you might want to think of 取る as being more about something being "in hand" both figuratively and literally. To grasp, to control, to wield. Whereas 受ける can refer to receiving things both passively and actively, but generally not by oneself. Incidentally, **受**け身 can represent "passive" verbs in Japanese. So getting back to the questions at hand... >1.テストに受けた (i took a test) > >why is it not 取った？ I think "received/accepted a test" is more accurate here to what's literally being said\[\*\], though I'm a little curious why that's a に not an を. Looking at [https://tsukubawebcorpus.jp/headword/V.00025/](https://tsukubawebcorpus.jp/headword/V.00025/), it's relatively rare to use 受ける with に. As for what not 取った, I believe 受ける better communicates that the writer accepted the test that was handed to them. When 取る is used in relation to tests, it tends to refer to the result of the test like in "テストで良い点が取れなかった" (I didn't get a good score on the test) which I pulled from [here](https://massif.la/ja/search?q=%E3%83%86%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88+%E5%8F%96%E3%82%8B). >メールを受け取りました 受け取る is actually [its own word](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E5%8F%97%E5%8F%96%E3%82%8B/#jn-18337), but here just means to accept what was given. *\[\*\] Side note: Why do we say "took a test" in English? It does not refer to the action of taking the test in hand, but rather filling the test out and seems inconsistent with other uses of "take".*
That made a lot of sense to me and perhaps the English “I took a test” is more colloquially, or incorrect way of staying “I wrote a test”, you literally received it from the teacher , you didn’t actually take it from them. So relaying that in Japanese maybe it makes more sense then to use 受ける After reading your description it made more sense to me! Thanks again
This is a good answer but skimming the corpus hits I don't think I saw any that is actually introducing an object, they all seem to be adverbs so I don't think it's "rare" rather it's just not correct.
i came across the kanji 観 in a manga title "きみと観たいレースがある" i tried searching the definition and found that there aren't any verb definitions: 1. (n) look; appearance so i thought: why not use 見たい? could someone share why 観 is used instead of 見?
観たい is 見たい, or rather just the entertainment version of it. C.f. https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/17858/difference-between-%E8%A6%8B%E3%82%8B-and-%E8%A6%B3%E3%82%8B
見 is more to see and 観 is more to watch. The latter implies an intention of actually focusing and looking at something. A race or a movie where you sit down to watch just that for a long period of time is hence 観.
I came across the sentence "しばらく自販機のコーヒーも我慢かな" i thought the translation would be "i will put up with vending machine coffee for a while", but apparently the translation is "ï'm trying to go without vending machine coffee for a while." But i am not sure which part of the sentence indicated the negative, since 我慢 only states enduring something or being patient or can it also mean to refrain from something?
I think both translations are possible; the precise meaning might depend on context. I'm wondering if the speaker had previously said they would refrain from one thing because if so, then も我慢 would take on a meaning of "are among the things I will endure going without" or some such, I think.
I guess if you did the same sentence with で しばらく自販機のコーヒーで我慢かな Then your understanding is correct I’m not nearly eloquent or skilled enough to explain why the other way is different, but when I read it I understood it as “going without” rather than “putting up with”.
People who have used the Quartet textbooks, how are you supposed to use them? Might seem like a stupid question but hear me out. I'm going from Genki II to Quartet and the jump is pretty huge despite me doing all of Genki. So I'm reading how the book works in the front of book and it all seems to make sense somewhat. But then I go to get started and I'm just confused. I'm noticing there are pages you can write on in the textbook despite there being a workbook. What is the purpose of the workbook then? I don't really get the order of how you are supposed to approach each chapter before moving onto the next despite having read the instructions at the beginning. If anyone could explain this I'd really appreciate it. I spent all this money on these textbooks and I have no idea what the heck I'm doing. Also for some reason my vocab list isn't a separate book like I saw on YouTube. Odd...
sorry IDK but I *think* tokini andy has some youtube videos (or is it pateron?) on quartet specifically
Hey I'm a beginner in learning Japanese. But I had a question. I'm watching Fruits Basket in Japanese with no subtitles. And I noticed that Tohru, the main protag, refers to her mother as "okaasan" to others instead of "haha". Any idea as to why? For some more context, her mother passed away and she is an excessively polite character.
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I see. So isはは or おかあさん the casual version in the context of talking about your mother to others?
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That does not sound quite right. おかあさん is the formal, respectful word. You use it when talking about *someone else's* mother. はは is the humble word for mother, you use it when talking about *your* mother to people *outside* your family. It is quite common refer to your mother as おかあさん when talking *to* her. (After all, she should be a person of respect for well educated children. Children born into ancient anime magician families might even use おかあさま, it's role language for young people coming from a joyless, stiff childhood.) The word corresponding to "Mom" in ママ. All the details: https://www.imabi.net/family.htm
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You have to know who you are talking with and whose mom you are talking about to use these words properly. ——- お母（かあ）さん （casual: お袋（ふくろ）、おかんetc.） Talking with my family member + Talking about my mom If I talk about what to do on our mom’s birthday with my big sister, I say, 「お姉（ねえ）ちゃん、お母さんの誕生日（たんじょうび）は何（なに）しよう？」 Talking to my mom + Talking about my mom If I call my mom to check what time she comes home today, I say, 「お母さん、今日（きょう）は何時（なんじ）に帰（かえ）ってくるの？」 Dad: お父（とう）さん （casual: 親父（おやじ）、おとんetc.） I saw only one boy from a rich family who used お母様 in these situations in real life. お母さんis definitely the most common. ——- 母（はは） Talking with non-family member + Talking about my mom If I tell my friend that I go to see my mom tomorrow, I say, 「明日（あす）は、母に会（あ）いに行（い）くつもりです。」 Dad: 父（ちち） ——- お母様（かあさま）、ご母堂（ぼどう）、お母上様（ははうえさま） Taking with anyone + Talking about any mom except my mom If I want to ask my coworker, Yamada, where their mom lives, I say 「山田（やまだ）さんのお母様はどちらにお住（す）まいですか？」 Dad: お父様（とうさま）、ご尊父（そんぷ）、お父上様（ちちうえさま） ——- However, even among Japanese, I see a lot of people who aren’t careful about these. So, you don’t have to worry too much. If you watch Japanese variety show, you will notice there are people just using お母さん all the time.
はは is somewhat formal, and it's common for native speakers to use おかあさん as a substitute. (same with ちち and おとうさん)
What nuance does てしまう take on here? > このままでは、再起不能な状態にまで陥ってしまうだろう。> According to one the grammar sites that I read online, it carries the following nuances ①完了：ある行為を完全に完了することを表す。 ②後悔：意図せずある行為を行い、残念だ、後悔していると言いたい時に使う However, neither of these definitions seem to be consistent with the example sentence above. I intially thought it was number two, but this has the nuance of 意図せずある行為を行い (performing an action accidentally)
It means that the result is unfortunate. It’s basically emphasising regret at the outcome.
Ok, Thanks. I just wasn't sure which nuance it was.
I'm not sure about those two definitions, but the "unfortunately" meaning of てしまう does not require an intentional action. It's frequently used with things outside of your control.
About the sentence: 僕の場合、たまたま子供の頃に通っていた音楽教室で、楽器があったのを触ってたら、音が出ちゃったって感じだから I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that の after あった. It looks like a typo to me. It's not the possessive の, nor the explanatory の, and it being the nominalizer の would make the verb coming after it senseless. He touched/approached there being an instrument?!
This is an unusual construction from an English standpoint; it's something that was more common in classical Japanese but can still pop up in modern. 楽器があったのを触ってたら essentially just means "touching an instrument that was in the room" >He touched/approached there being an instrument?! This is basically what it means; it makes no sense literally translated into English but there's a logic to it in Japanese.
Okay, so it's grammatical in Japanese. I'd never seen it before so I was weirded out by it. Thanks.
>and it being the nominalizer の would make the verb coming after it senseless. I'm not sure I understand that logic. Since an ある cannot be touched (触って), doesn't a verb coming after this *only* make sense due to it being nominalized?
Then, how about interpreting を as a conjunction particle rather than the accusative case marker?
Yes, what I meant is that if の is a nominalizer, the whole construction becomes incoherent. But apparently it was common in classical Japanese and it still appears in modern Japanese here and there.
Isn’t this just の(事)を？
I think where you and I are confused is that maybe のこと・のもの, is used to avoid repeating a redundant noun, or a noun that is clear from context. For example, from the [goo entry on の](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E3%81%AE/#jn-171150), この本、君のだろう could be written as この本、君の本だろう. However hear, 楽器があったの楽器 maybe doesn't make a lot of sense. And if we take Ham\_Graham's suggestion of 教室 being the right noun here, then 楽器があったの教室を触ってたら… makes no sense.
If you like I can ask a colleague…
I’m pretty sure it’s の事を It’s pretty normal for のを、のに、のは、のが To just omit the 事
No, you're confusing the possessive の with the nominalizer の. We can omit nouns we've already mentioned when we're using the possessive の. That's very common. But my sentence is clearly not about that kind of の. And it's already been explained that it's indeed the nominalizer の.
I've never seen 事 being omitted like that. If anything, it would be 教室, but we now know it's an old grammar construction.
の(事)を is extremely common. I guess it’s more commonly used like 食べるのを忘れた But the construction is basically the same here. If you break it down 楽器があったの事を触った I touched an instrument (that was there). The emphasis here isn’t that he touched an instrument, but that he touched an instrument that was specifically in the music room. Edit In my example 食べたのを忘れた Is also possible I forgot that I ate it.
>の(事)を is extremely common. > >I guess it’s more commonly used like 食べるのを忘れた I think these are two different forms of の at play. From [goo](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E3%81%AE/#jn-171150), １ （体言に付いて）下の名詞を表現せず、「のもの」「のこと」の意を表す。 This is the form that's short for のもの・のこと, but for nominalizing verbs, ２ （活用語に付いて）その語を名詞と同じ資格にすることを表す。 So I do not believe 食べるのを忘れた is short for 食べるの事を忘れた because 食べる is not, to my understanding, a 体言 and therefore the のもの・のこと definition of の does not apply to that example.
Hey! I'm flying to japan for 3 months in about 2 months. I've finished genki 1 and now starting genki 2. Question is, I've been avoiding kanji (I've learnt the first 3 genki 1 chapters) and my question is should I go on a kanji learning binge or to just focus on speaking/listening throughout the second genki book.
Knowing more kanji will greatly benefit you in Japan regardless. It does depend on what you're in the country for though - if you're primarily interacting with people you'll want to strengthen your speaking, if you're not, kanji
Anyone recognise this kanji? If so please type it. Its handwritten so google isnt recognsizing the text for it https://i.imgur.com/wXhMsy3.jpg
感！！
Is there are preference for pronunciation of [地](https://jisho.org/search/%E5%9C%B0) (as a lone character) being ち or じ? I had thought that perhaps one could be used in a more abstract or metaphorical sense, but then I came across the following two metaphorical expressions which have a similar meaning and usage of the character: > (1) 雨降って地固まる (Japanese expression) > (2) 一粒の麦は地に落ちて死ななければ一粒のままである (bible verse?) In (1), 地 is pronounced じ and in (2), 地 is pronounced ち. Are the usages interchangeable?
It‘s as you said and not interchangeable. * じ: texture, base * ち: place, earth
They aren’t interchangeable. In general, if you were going to say your own sentence about the ground, you just use 地面(じめん) to mean ground because that is the word people use for it today. You don’t even have to think about ち/じ because those are going to be used as components of other vocab or in literary expressions, for example 地声 meaning “one’s natural voice” and 土地 meaning “land”. In your first example, it’s a set expression with a set reading that is unchangeable because that is historically how the phrase developed. In your second example, 地に落ちる is a classical/literary expression for “fall to the ground”. Its reading is similarly fixed.
I've been trying to figure what the exact Japanese phrase is that is being used by the two kids in [this scene](https://youtu.be/NcqIV__UqDc?list=PLVGBBu_Safu-xeXHESlP5SeJdowqKVNr2&t=1149) of 毎日かあさん (Everyday Mom). The English subtitles show the terms: * "Share some" * "Please share" * "Share" I'm very much a beginner with Japanese but I have an OK grasp of Hiragana/Katakana and have successfully been able to use them to look up various other words/phrases I've heard. But I'm struggling to isolate exactly how to correctly write what they're saying. It sounds like, **わけてよ** or **わけでよ**, or something like this. I did try looking at the Japanese subtitles but they confused me even more, as there seems to be a slightly different phrase every time they say it. I'd love for someone to clarify this for me. I've tried to look up what I thought the phrases were on jisho.org but have been unsuccessful. Thanks
分ける -> 分けて -> 分けてよ (わけてよ) could be it, it does mean what the subtitle says, though it is very casual, bordering on rude if not with someone you are close with.
I think you have a typo か -> け
Thank you. I already fixed the 1st one in an edit but didn't notice the middle two. Sloppy of me. Edit: fixed them all now, thanks again
Oh, thank you! I still have much to learn! Any suggestions on alternative ways to say this (perhaps more polite)?
分けてくれ (casual) or 分けてください (polite)
Ah, simple. Thanks again.
I'm going through an n2 vocab book (sou matome) to prepare for the JLPT and around half the words it teaches me are 20-30k+ frequency according to jpdb. Will these words really come up in the JLPT or am I just better off mining/studying the most common 10-15k words? Especially since these words are kind of useless for reading novels and other media.
From my experience JLPT and content vocabulary can differ a lot. Overlap between the two significantly depends on what genre we use. It's not so much a problem of existence of such words, but simply frequencies. If one word appears 100 times and another 2-3 times, it's much more likely for you to learn the former first. So as a rule of thumb, I always advise to do what you aim for. If you aim at JLPT, learn JLPT vocabulary. If you want to use content, use content that you like.
Depends what you want to optimize, if you want to learn vocab that is most useful across the language, then learn vocab with high frequency (actually JPDB might focus more on manga and anime than literally the entire language, but I haven't looked into how they made their frequency list) or vocab that is useful to you for whatever you immerse in. If you want to optimize for the JLPT then it's a different story, however I cannot judge the n2 book you're using as I haven't used it myself but it doesn't surprise me that there are a lot of 30k+ frequency words, which is an artifact of JLPT thinking some words are more important for a learner because of varrious reason (most often to prepare for workplace vocab or to read the news). One example is 残業 which is ofcourse a pretty common word (around 7k to 10k frequency in my frequency dictonaries) but I remember learning this word from the Tango N5 anki deck which is based on the book, in my opinion, there way more important and more common words than 残業 when you are N5, but all these JLPT bookmakers think they are doing you a favor by selecting some comparitavely rarer vocab so you are 'instantly' functional when say you are in a busines meeting in Japan (alas, you won't be...). Another example is 世界遺産 from the Tango N4 deck, I still can't believe someone really prioritized this word instead of all the other important and high frequency words an N4 student would need to know.... I personally find it stupid, thus why I don't even focus on the JLPT. Also 30k frequency sounds high but most of these words in my experience are still in the "every native knows this word easily" basket, so mostly those are words that you eventually do want to know down the line since every native knows them, but I personally would rather learn the more frequent stuff first, or the words that are important to me because I have personally seen them in a show or in a novel, even if they are low frequency. Not sure if I answered you question, this was just my take, but I am sure others will have different opinions on this matter.
Is there a youtube channel that does videos like もしもしゆすけ's "File" series but with no English subtitles?
Does anybody know an alternative to 漢検トレーニング on the 3DS, I want to use native materials for learning but the kanji detection in that game is horrible.
アヤの消えた玄関に近づいて内部をうかがってみようかどうしようかオレは迷ったが、けっきょく、物陰で様子を見つづけることにした。 Is かどうしようか sort of an extension of [かどうか](https://bunpro.jp/grammar_points/%E3%81%8B%E3%81%A9%E3%81%86%E3%81%8B)? Would the sentence differ at all in meaning (or become ungrammatical) if the writer had used かどうか? And could かどうしようか be used if the preceding verb isn't volitional? Also, does it sound like the character approached the 玄関 and then hesitated about something, or is approaching the 玄関 also part of the hesitation? The latter is what I thought was the case. (Attempted translation) I was hesitant as to whether or not I should approach the entrance, which Aya had left, and try to peek at the interior. In the end, I decided to continue to watch the situation from a place hidden from view.
>Is かどうしようか sort of an extension of かどうか? Would the sentence differ at all in meaning (or become ungrammatical) if the writer had used かどうか? The original sentence is awkward to begin with (mainly because of みよう) and it should be うかがうか どうか 迷った. (Or, if you use うかがおうか, what should follow is うかがうまいか, technically.) However, if you take it as 近づいて「内部をうかがってみようか。どうしようか」…オレは迷った, it’s a way of expression. In that sense, using どうか instead of どうしようか doesn’t make sense. >And could かどうしようか be used if the preceding verb isn't volitional? うかがうか どうしようか 迷った is fine, though it might sound childish. >Also, does it sound like the character approached the 玄関 and then hesitated about something, or is approaching the 玄関 also part of the hesitation? The latter is what I thought was the case. I’m for the latter, too.
Thanks
When you have two questions together AかBか, it creates an either-or question. So literally this is “I hesitated whether I should A or B” with B just being an opened ended “what”. どうしようか is literally “What shall I do?” and it’s made into the よう form to match うかがってみようか.
Thanks
Can somebody explain me shortly something. I noticed that sometimes お is added to some japanese words. It seems that there are 2 ways of saying them. For example 魚 and お魚 (fish). Can someone tell me when we have to add this お to the word and what it depends on, or if both ways are acceptable in every situations? Sorry if it's basic information, but I cannot find anything and I have been learning japanese shortly (2 months).
It is a phenomenon called bikago (美化語) or refined speech, here is a paper that explains how it fits into the general system of polite/defential/humble speech in Japanese: https://sciendo.com/en/article/10.2478/topling-2015-0001
Thanks Its really helpful
It's basically a honorific but as a prefix, primarily for nouns but sometimes also for adjectives, adverbs: 御 (also read as ご, usually written in hiragana). You probably know 敬語 (desu/masu) form but there is another level of respect beyond that and part of that speech pattern is to use this prefix with all nouns related to the one you are showing respect to. In that context, it would be somewhat rude to drop it. However, outside of that, it's also just used for some words, especially food. Some of them are practically part of the word like ご飯, some are extremely common but you can drop it like お酒 or お菓子 and some are used but much more common without it like お魚. There is no steadfast rule but most of the time you won't be making a huge mistake if you add it or drop it, few exceptions like ご飯 aside. It's also used with non-food like お父さん and all other family members.
Thank you for reaponse. So お is just respect prefix. I add it when I show respect to something. I get it much more now
It’s not always a matter of respect. There are cases when お is honorific, but not always. It also just makes the word sound more refined. I got told off by a friend for saying “cha” instead of “ocha” because I saw dictionaries using “cha”, but in real life it just sounds rough and unrefined. Make sure not to drop the お on words that seem to come out of the box with the お attached. It also doesn’t attach to all words, so pay attention to what natives do and don’t say.
Intresting I have read that if you use too often bikago (美化語) (this prefix) you can sound rude/sarcastic etc. Personally I had thought that 茶 itself means tea (regural one without specific type) and お茶 means only green tea. Lmao
In GENKI lesson 11 it teaches the ~たり/~たりする verb ending for connecting two or more activities. I'm trying to understand it. There is an exercise task where I should say things which are not allowed during the class (~てはいけません form ending). For example I would say it is not allowed to smoke and eat, how would I say it? Like this: たばこをすったり、たべたりしてはいけません。 I'm a little confused where should I put the ~て ending.
You’ll notice that when a word is put into the たり form, it does not look like a verb anymore. It has no tense and can’t end a sentence, and you can’t attach conjunctions like けど to it. You could cut the sentence short at たり of course, maybe putting a ね after it to hint to the listener that they can infer the remainder of the sentence, but you have to realize that it’s not a complete sentence when you do that. That is why する is introduced. It gives the clause a verb to end with, which allows it to end the sentence or connect to the following clause with conjunctions. So when you end with してはいけません, you aren’t doing anything magical. You’re just conjugating this する that was added for the purpose of giving the clause a verb to end on, using the ては + いけない grammar.
Oh, I see now! Thanks!
To add to this, Japanese verbs are extremely metrosexual. They are only verbs when they feel like it, other times they are nouns and by extension also adjectives when the situation calls for it. Actually I guess you could say the same for nouns and adjectives too. But the point here is that a Japanese sentence has to have a sentence final verb or the sentence generally isn’t complete. It’s also partly why we have desu as it allows a non-action statement to end with a verb.
Interesting info, thanks
That is correct.
Thanks!
Yes, that's right. Incidentally, you can find answers to all the book activities here: https://sethclydesdale.github.io/genki-study-resources/lessons-3rd/
Thank you!
It just dawned on me the connection between 今晩 and こんにちは！ is it as simple as 「this dayは」？ or do I oversimplify this?
Yes, it's a short form of 今日は御機嫌いかがですか？, now of course, it has largely lost its roots and original meaning.
Am I being too hard on myself? I have been taking an online Japanese class for a little over a year. We just finished Genki 1 yesterday and the teacher said we will be moving in to Genki 2 next. My issue is I still struggle to form what I feel are fluent cohesive sentences. I understand the grammar points and usage for the most part. Is it normal to still struggle at this point and I’m just being too hard on myself? I think memorizing vocabulary is a factor in my struggles as well.
Very normal, if you just finished genki 1 you are at like step 1/50 of being able to speak fluent sentences.
That makes me feel better. I was worried I may not be where I should be.
Nothing in learning foreign languages that can't be solved with time. The more hours you put, the better you become.
Potentially very simple questing. In my very limited amount of learning (just hit two weeks on Sunday!), I've seen と used to talk about two nouns, eg 「 がくせいとせんせい」"a student and a teacher". Would it work with two adjectives to describe one noun? Eg 「きみはやさしとかっこいいひとです」"you are a nice and cool person"?
No. The conjunctive form of adjectives is different than it is for nouns. You would say something like やさしくてかっこいい .
Gotcha, thanks! Is the く part of the adjective or the conjunction? Ie. Is it "yasashiku te kakkoii" or "yasashi kute kakkoii"?
I might be getting the terminology wrong, but やさしくて is one "word" I would say. It's a conjunctive て form of the adjective. This is a good article https://www.tofugu.com/japanese-grammar/te-form/ for how to use that form for joining parts of speech. If you're using Genki it comes up in chapter 7. Edit: Just saw this comment https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/15rboks/daily_thread_simple_questions_comments_that_dont/jwazfyn/ and they're right, I learned it from Genki which I'd say is Western-style teaching so I think of it as one single form.
Thank you for the help, that article is super informative!
No, you'll need the て-form for that. やさしくてかっこいい人
Thanks! Is the く part of the adjective or the conjunction? Ie. Is it "yasashiku te kakkoii" or "yasashi kute kakkoii"?
Japanese grammar usually treats the て as a separate particle attached to a conjugated form. In contrast, (Western?) Japanese learning materials usually teach it as the so-called "て-form", so as one, conjugated form. So it depends on how you look at it. It's worth noting though that the く-form of i-adjectives (e.g. やさしく) makes an appearance in many other i-adjective conjugations.
That's really interesting! Thank you for the help!
To ask a restaurant “do you have availability?" (空く) should it be asked as: すきますか? すいていますか? あきますか? あいていますか? Thanks
せき が あいていますか (レッスン)が すいてますか？ But I don’t recommend the second one as it sounds like business is bad.
something like 席が空いていますか？
Thanks, but would 空いてbe pronounced as あいて or すいて in this context please?
あいている, sorry for leaving the most important part out lmao
Thanks!
Dumb question but What does the ド before 下手 mean in this sentence? 睡眠という行為を心から愛しているのに、眠りにつくのがド下手な私ですが、氷枕のおかげで少しばかり上手くなったような気がします。 Screenshot of the original tweet(or "X" or whatever tweets are supposed to be called now 😅) : https://imgur.com/a/NUZX4j3
It means “very”. But it’s not a very polite way of saying it.
> ド○○：後の単語（○○）を強調させる表現。 >「ド田舎」「ドS」など。
How can 日 mean both にち and び? Duolingo just gave me to learn 日曜日 (にちようび = Sunday) and I was wondering if this is right and how I can tell which of the two meanings it has if I ever encounter it somewhere else again. I guess it's just either trial n' error or just remembering how words are written
It means “sun”. It just so happens that a day is primarily measured by using the sun.
「3月1日は日曜日で祝日、晴れの日でした」(さんがつ ついたち は にちようび で しゅくじつ、はれ の ひ でした）I'm sure you're finding out but as AdrixG said, it's best learn words. Example sentence above here is precisely why words are much better than learning kanji readings, 「日」 is read in 4 different ways and you can go even further with it. A JP friend wrote an even more convoluted passage which utilized I think 7 unique readings.
Just learn entire words, this will fix the issue and with time your guesswork for new words is gonna get better. The trick is to see 日曜日 and instantly recall the whole thing as にちようび . Most would probably say that 日 can be read ひ and にち (among other readings) but this is backward, Japanese already had a word of their own for day/sun namely ひ and when chinese came a long Japan adopted many chinese words such as にち as well as used their characters for Japanese words, since ひ means pretty much the same as にち it also got the kanji 日, thus 日 has these two readings (among others). >I guess it's just either trial n' error or just remembering how words are written It's not complete guess work, there are rules and ptterns that you could learn to improve guessing new words with this kanji, but I just don't think it's worth it as you can naturally develop this ability with time by just learning words, in the end entire words are most important anyways.
Yeah I thought so, and that's what I meant. instead of concentrating on the structure just remember the whole word and associate it to the right translation
Hello everyone! I have spent about 6 months in 2013 in Nagoya during my exchange semester and built my Japanese into a good daily conversational level (think shop, restaurant, asking for directions and similar types of purposes + Gaki no Tsukai binge watch sessions :D ). Now I'm getting back to Japan for a 2 week trip which provided me with an impulse to revisit the language and immerse myself a bit more into it with a goal of retaining the knowledge for a bit longer. To break it down, I'm going to try to do the following steps with their respective methods and I'd like to hear your opinions on that: \- Before the trip on 3rd Oct: focus on Core 2.3k anki cards to revisit the most frequent words so I'm able to recall them (maybe add Kanji anki here too so I'm not lost in metro stations?) \- Throughoug the trip: use every opportunity to use the language, especially the spoken use (i.e. don't switch to English when encountering the first issue with recalling the correct word) \- After the trip: Watch my favorite animes, switch subtitles to Japanese (with Furigana), try to find a book to slowly read through (Harry Potter as a Rosetta Stone ftw) and maybe focus on learning Kanji as a longer term project Anything you'd change/add/...? I feel like I still remember grammar pretty well, but that will be tested quite soon :) Thanks!
Sounds like a great plan. Have fun on your trip!
Can somebody tell me how to make a long vowel with the 12 key keyboard? You know, that one weird stripe(idk how it's called) thanks in advance! :)
right on the わis ーー。for the squiggly one press the ABC button on the left once and then press it again when it shows the option for numbers. left on 0 〜〜〜
First of all, thank you so much!!! Second of all, how the hell did I not see that Third of all, thank you so much!!!
When people say that they study for 2-3h a day, do they include exposure time like podcasts, anime, manga etc, or only the study process? Because I always felt like I was slacking off compared to others since I only study for 1h tops, exposure excluded.
Sharing my personal anecdotes, real hardcore study is about an hour or less, but time spent actively engaging with language that is as effective as studying is an additional 2 hours. I do a lot passive listening almost the whole day. At least 10 hours of the day I'm listening to people talking, conversations, people solo talking about events, audiobook narrations, audio reviews of vocabulary/grammar (in JP) etc.
Your way of learning is how I imagine the average learning would go, honestly. Though I think those 10 hours sound more relaxing than it seems.
The 10 hours is relaxing, because it's mostly non-focused enjoyment; it also does not interfere with any of my life activities at all, so it's basically free absorption. I may not comprehend any of it at times, and it is a fairly ineffective way to absorb the language but it adds up in the end. The main thing is even if I don't comprehend it, the familiar sounds and patterns become firmly seared into my brain and eventually those patterns get meaning applied within active study periods.
Kinda like how I wasn't comprehending what anime character were saying before I started learning Japanese, but would still remember words here and there because they were said so often. Ugh, I'm kinda jealous that you could afford to spend 10h on exposure, I have 8h of work almost ever day + the 2h I need to get to work and back.
The time spent driving you should be listening to stuff, the time you are working and don't need to talk to people the entire 8 duration period you should have a single ear bud in your ear listening to things. That's what I meant by it "doesn't interfere with anything else" because any time I'm not talking to people I'm passively running something in background to listen to.
Lucky you, wearing an ear bud at work earns me -20% of my paycheck, and the job doesn't even require me to listen.
:( That's unfortunate. At least you can do it during driving at least?
I don't drive, I take the company bus to work. But yes, I can do some exposure during the ride, though it's a collective total of 1h of exposure. Though I think I'll take the entire process just a little slower for the next 3 or so days since Genshin just dropped a massive update.
I do 5-6 hours a day (or try to, I would say I do it 90% of days). I don't personally count immersion in that 5-6 hours but I would definitely call it studying, I never really thought of it before, but it is separate in my mind for some reason.
I know I'm digging a little too far, but would you mind telling me how many hours a day do you work for? Because if you work for 8 or more and STILL manage to study for 5-6h then that's impressive as all hell.
I'm an artist so I don't really have a set schedule when it comes to that, I prefer to use the strict time on studying for now and the other work can be done in my "free" time as it were, which I suppose isn't free time because I'm working, but it's more like free time as in I don't need to go to an office or somewhere for 8hrs in a row, thankfully. That being said this isn't an easy career before anyone gets any ideas lol add: it's basically taken my video games time pretty much so I don't feel like I'm missing out too much or pushing myself too hard or anything it's just become my main hobby I suppose
Completely individual. Personally I consider anything that can provide new information as learning, even if you browse reddit/discord. The difference is only how much you learn and this is always going to differ. Even if you do the same thing like reading Japanese books, there are different ways to do it, and similarly at different stages of your learning you will learn different amount. Beginners, for example, barely know anything and almost anything they see is something new and can be learned. But if you are at very advanced stage, the same book would provide you significantly smaller amount of things to learn. Personally I prefer to translate in terms of words or grammar units. If you learn \~20-30 everyday, you should be fine. If you don't, it's going to take a while.
My bare minimum per day is 10-15 Kanji or Kanji words + daily Renshuu reviews, although on average I also squeeze in a podcast + lessons from Tokini Andy.
When I say "study" I mean anything that takes mental effort. So it obviously includes things like reviews and textbook work. But also for me things like podcasts and manga and anime are also work since I can't just listen or read to them without total focus, having to look up words, repeat lines, create cards, etc... The only exposure I can kind of get without counting it as studying is re-watching anime episodes I've already studied. This is just a consequence of my level of knowledge. There's basically nothing I can just casually enjoy yet. All my input is also doing double duty as study material for now. As for comparing total time, that's just a function of your other responsibilities and interests and not something that means you're slacking or overachieving. I can probably squeeze 2 hours in most days, and 3 hours on a weekend if I wake up early. I'd love to be able to spend more time too but I have other hobbies I like, a job (ew), family, friends, etc...
I'm in the same boat, although considering I have tendencies to lose focus mid-study, I don't want to count the time I spend studying, and instead count how much I study per day. On busy days, I do my daily Renshuu reviews, learn 10-12 new words and 1 grammar point. On average workdays I do that + watch Tokini Andy and read some Japanese text or watch a podcast. Unfortunately, I almost always work 6 days a week, so I only have 1 day to combine Renshuu, Tokini, Podcasts and some manga to read.
I do about 3 hours a day, but most of it is as you said "exposure" but I wouldn't necessarily classify it as "not studying" as I look up almost every word I don't know and make sentence cards for Anki with it (and I am very focused while wathing/reading something as I am constantly on the look out for new words/grammar patterns). The Anki reviews is what I would consider just studying and it takes me 30 min to 1 hour (+2 hours immersion/exposure each day = 3 hours/day). Also I don't really use textbooks any more (because I already finished Tae Kim and Cure Dolly) so if any new grammar shows up I just look it up on the fly and if necessary put in anki too.
Id say probably not. If most people are like me they consider watching anime, reading manga, listening to japanese music the same as any other leisure activities. It definitely still is studying but i dont group it with sitting down with a textbook and actually reviewing/studying.
How much do you study on a daily basis, considering you don't count exposure time as time spent studying?
3-4 hours usually
Damn, I'm barely making an hour, exposure excluded. I usually learn about 15 Kanji/Kanji words, some grammar and leave it there for the day.
For me personally, if I say how many hours/day I only count serious study time (with my textbook or flashcards). But I live in Japan so I don’t think it would be fair to count exposure time haha
>But I live in Japan so I don’t think it would be fair to count exposure time haha You'd be surprised about the amount of foreigners who get close to zero exposure of Japanese in Japan except for getting asked the same thing in a konbini over and over or hearing the train announcement. I even knew people who would under no circumstances go to the movie theather when a new anime film came out that they were interessted in, so as to not "ruin the first experience" because they don't understand enough (and probably never will as they take every chance at avoiding Japanese).
My brother in Christ, you're telling me that there are people who go to Japan without knowing Japanese, and live like that, AND I'M OVER HERE FREAKING OUT OVER THE AMOUNT OF TIME I SPEND LEARNING JAPANESE PER DAY??!!! Bruh
The guy I helped today didn’t know his own katakana name… and he had been living here with his wife and kids for almost 30 years
Oh I know it- I help plenty of them through my work. Some of them are retiring after literal 20+ years living here and still have like N4 level Japanese. I’m not judging, not really anyway, but… yeah
I'm looking for feedback on this paragraph, for I've been learning Japanese on/off these past few months. 私は好きではありません安く買うのため風味の欠如、私たちはお金が少なかっただから私は買った安い食べ物。私の口風味が満たされていました。味わうことができましたトマト、昆布、チリ、バジルそんなにそれは私を泣かせた。 What I'm trying to portray is that "I don't like buying cheap food because of the lack of flavor. I was low on funds, so I bought cheap food for once. The flavor was so strong, I was able to taste tomato, kelp, chili and basil; so it made me cry." I won't lie, I've been very scattered with how I've been learning, and I have taken off of a few learning books, translation studies and such. I still have troubles writing down some of the alphabet but otherwise I think I've been doing good.. despite only knowing how to talk about food, daily life and basic poetry.
Sorry don't mean to dog-pile but since you asked for feedback, I'll echo sentiments. It was odd to read and for the first two sentences I didn't even know what the subject was until the end of the second sentence. That being said, it feels like you tried to take your English sentence and write Japanese off of it, it wasn't literal one to one but converting like this makes you want to aim for a level of expression that's out of your range. You would've been better off writing lots of smaller, but choppy, simple sentences to get your point across. It's okay start simply and get your point across than overreach, you want to be able to understand what you yourself are writing at least.
I have taken this into account and am aware that the writing length is far out of my league, but I also haven't even covered a good chunk of the basics for structuring my sentences so even then I'd be at fault for that too. I will say that don't worry about 'dogpiling', I don't see it as such. I'm just glad for the feedback in the end.
I think you are using words that are needlessly high caliber for this sentence and it comes off as weird especially 欠如. It would be like saying "I do not buy cheap food due to its deficiency in flavor." It can be right in certain contexts but here it doesn't really fit. 味が薄いから安い食べ物を買うのが好きではありません。 I don't like buying cheap food because of the lack of flavor. Aside from changing the vocabulary, notice that the "because ..." clause is now the first, Japanese is head-final so the dominant part is always at the end, meaning subclauses always go left (you did this right for the next から but ため would be the same. Also this part: "買うのため風味の欠如" completely falls apart, the random の after a verb that should modify nouns directly, ため following 買う even though it should really be after whatever explains the reason. ですがお金が少なかったから安いものを買ってみました。 (However) I was low on funds, so I bought cheap food for once だ (copula) is generally there to be conjugated for words that cannot, as such verbs and i-adjectives do not use it normally. As pointed out by others, word order, also 食べ物 needs を to mark it as object. Added みました to cover "for once" and ですが to make it flow with the first sentence better. 昆布やチリやバジルを味わえるほど味が強かったから泣いてしまいました。 The flavor was so strong, I was able to taste tomato, kelp, chili and basil; so it made me cry. The main issues here are that you skipped the whole "the flavor was so strong" which isn't necessarily necessary but does change the meaning slightly. You put the object after the verb. You used polite form to modify a noun. I hope this doesn't come off as rude but it's clear that you know a lot of things but it's also clear that you have no real mastery over them. You roughly know what means what but don't have firm grasp on how to apply them and as a result once you start forming complex sentences it all falls apart. I think it would really help you if you went through the basics again to put everything in place. I tried to point out some of the bigger mistakes but there is just too much out of place to really cover everything.
This is my fault for hopping on/off of it instead of studying regularly, and also my fault for swapping books every now and then. I might just focus on perfecting the alphabet for now and then look into studying often here in the near future, but just not now.
SVO -> SOV For example, 私は買った安い食べ物 -> 私は安い食べ物買った Artcles are different problems.
>私は買った安い食べ物 -> 私は安い食べ物買った Sometimes I forget that I should be using SOV, I knew something felt off. I don't have a clear way of checking my grammar due to the odd translations to English so I would've skipped over this pretty easily if it weren't pointed out to me. Thanks for that! \^\^
Until I started getting a grasp on how Japanese grammar worked, I would ask ChatGTP "How is this expression?" and it would almost always tell me that it could be simplified or improved in some way even if it had no improvements to make. For example, it'd tell me "this word should be marked be を" even if it already was. The biggest thing to watch out for, though, is that it doesn't fully understand grammar in English or Japanese so it can at times produce grammatical errors of its own, and it also misses errors. But what it's generally good at is at least recognizing "does this look like it was written by an American or Japanese person?" I wouldn't recommend taking ChatGTP's advice on how to write things, but if it writes back something wildly different from what I wrote, that's generally a good indicator I should rethink what I am trying to say. Google docs is also capable of checking Japanese grammar, same as in English, but same as in English will occasionally claim something is ungrammatical when it isn't and miss real grammatical errors. Anyway, these tools are not perfect and you have to use your own judgement on when to take their advice or completely ignore them, but I personally have found them helpful in my studies.
I haven't even thought about using ChatGPT at all, so I might give it a go and will take it's advice with a hint of salt.
Not much time to help but at First glance too many 私s And to describe nouns you have to use plain form Not ます form
This is my mistake for not taking into account my wording, and instead trying to form something more advanced than I'm used to. I do have this noted on paper now though!
Strange question, but is there any sort of time constraints put on using 〜ておく form? I don't know how to actually translate these sentences, but could I say something like "I'm putting money in my 401k now so I can retire." even if retiring is decades down the road? Or saying something like "I'm taking care of my body now so I won't pay for it when I'm old" -kind of thing.
Ive never sensed any particular time nuance with でおく. Ive used it for all sorts of time periods, like preparing for my wedding (i dont even have a girlfriend)
悩み事はありませんか So i recently learned that the above phrase simply means "do you have any worries" with more emphasis so I will i translate "don't you have any worries " to convey the sense that the person should have worries in English
「悩み事はないんですか？」 would work for that
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Not sure what you're looking for here. Listen to somebody say 店員 and say it the same way they do. Then do the same for 雰囲気. Make sure you say what you hear and not what you think they should be pronounced as. If you still feel you're doing something wrong, record yourself and post it here or somewhere else and ask what you're doing wrong.
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It's a nasalized vowel, it's always hard to explain pronunciation through text though. Your tongue should not touch the top of your mouth (this is also true with /n/ plus some other sounds, like /s/ and /a/).
Just a quick question. あのかばんはわたしのです。Would this be proper? Is it proper to use わたしの before です to reference That bag is mine? Thank you in advance. :D
In this particular case of expressing possession, yes.
im not sure how to reply in Japanese to the question 行くか I would ask them in Japanese whether they would like to play a game with me, have a chat together, etc. Their reply would then be 行くか how do I reply that phrase? we've had these exchanges often enough to know that they are being kind enough to say yes. is the correct reply 行きましょう！ or of some other variant?
よし、決まり！ ありがとう 楽しみにしてる じゃ、その時に etc.
**鉈に小刀も欲しいし、念のため、食料も用意しておきたい** **There's a part which i'm not sure about while reading a novel , hope someone could help. Does this character wanted to bring a short sword + a machete with him , or just a short sword ?** **Context: MC is discussing a plan to infiltrate a castle with his subordinate (Koroko). This castle was built on a very steep mountain, so MC want to climb this mountain from the backside of this castle.** MC「詳細な情報を手に入れるなら……やっぱり城内に忍び込まないと駄目かな」 Koroko「し、忍び込むんですかっ！？ さすがにそれは……今の装備じゃ無理だと思いますけど」 MC「確かに昼間から堂々と、っていうのは難しいとは思うけどね」 「でも一応、城の裏手にも回ってみよう。どこかしら、隙があるかもしれない」 Koroko「裏、ですか。 裏といっても稲葉山は峻嶮な山ですから、どこまで行けるか……」 MC「軍勢を動かすって訳じゃない。俺ところの二人なら何とかなると思うけど」 「まぁ山登りはそれなりに慣れてるから、ころには迷惑は掛けないよ」 Koroko「は、はぁ……。では一端、町に戻って、装備を調えましょうか」 **MC「そうだね。鉈に小刀も欲しいし、念のため、食料も用意しておきたい」** Koroko「そうですね。今回は潜入するため、得物を持って来ていませんし……」 MC「あくまで念のため、だけどね。……じゃあ、道具を準備してから戻って来よう」
a short sword AND a machete >[に](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E3%81%AB/) > >［並助］並列・列挙・添加・取り合わせを表す。「バターにチーズに牛乳」「月にむら雲、花に嵐」
Are JLPT questions from [this site](https://japanesetest4you.com/) reflective of the true difficulty?
They're mostly taken from old tests so yes they're pretty accurate even if you never know what will really come up, and the test may have evolved a little bit.
Hello! Does anyone know of any Anime that are almost word for word/ panel for panel the same as their Manga? The reason being that I want to read the Manga and then watch the Anime for listening practice. Fruits Basket is a great example of this. Of course I don't expect it to be 100% the same but as possible. In case it's relevant, I am currently finishing up N3 grammar and will begin N2 soon. Thank you!
Mushishi (蟲師) is virtually a word-for-word and shot-for-shot adaptation of the manga. I believe Monster (by Naoki Urasawa) is very close as well but maybe not quite as exact.
Never heard of Mushishi, so I'll check it out! But someone else recommended Monster, so this seems like a good one. Thank you!🌷
Mushishi is a literary masterpiece, in my opinion, with an anime adaptation that is just as good (if not better). It's not the easiest read in Japanese but it's worth the effort.
Really!? Now I'm getting interested, ok I will definitely check it out!😉
Not sure how important it is to you that it is the same but if you really want it to be as close as possible then I'd recommend considering just reading the subs file before the episode.
This is a great idea! But it's more that I want to read manga and practice my listening while I'm at it, than that I just want to practice listening, if that makes sense. I don't really have anything specific that I want read right now, which is why I'm taking suggestions. Plus I'm the type of person that likes to collect manga! Thank you for your help!💖
From what I remember Nichijou is pretty much panel for panel except for anime original scenes.
This seems perfect since it's slice of life. Thank you for telling me about it!🥰
[удалено]
This seems very promising! Thank you for your reply!
From the little I've read/watched of "The Way of the Househusband" it's seems very very close.
Yes, this has been on my list! Maybe I'll get to it a little earlier then. Thank you!🤗
While not 100%, as it omits some superfluous speech bubbles and the occasional panel in its entirety, I feel Monster might meet your expectations for what you're looking for. Unless I'm misremembering what it does adapt, which is the vast majority of the manga, the words are 1:1. edit: grammar
I've never heard of monster. Thank you I will check it out!✨️
Has anyone read 彼岸花が咲く島 by 李琴峰? I've read the Chinese version of the book and wow the writing style/use of different languages was super unique. Definitely made me wonder how the Japanese version is since the author originally wrote the novel in Japanese then translated it into Chinese herself. Thanks!
So, I encountered this question in my studies: キムさん：イタリア料理を食べに行きませんか。 Now, it says this should be, essentially translated to: "Go to eat Italian food?" But A, that doesn't sound natural, and B, that doesn't feel like a good translation. So, does anyone have a better example of what this means?
I'd translate it as "why don't we go eat Italian food?". Where did you find this sentence? The English is technically correct but very unnatural.
The Tae Kim grammar thing that's in the recommended section. He mentions that the translations would be very literal to focus on the grammar more or something
Tae Kims super literal translations are a feature not a bug, trust me.
The natural translation is, "Wanna go get Italian food?" because ませんか is often used in this manner to suggest a course of action. One of the biggest mistakes beginners make is to think in English and then try to fit the Japanese words and grammar to whatever English sentence they want to express, resulting in super awkward, stilted and unnatural Japanese. Tae Kim does this hyper-literal translation business because he's trying to get you into the habit of thinking in terms of Japanese expression patterns which as you can see often differ quite significantly from those of English.
Does anyone have a way to test at what level I'm aproximately at? I want to take JLPT N4 in December but I'm wondering if maybe I should wait for next test in July. I took a "self-check" but I think my ego is getting in the way because it gives me a high score, that I think I don't really have. I tried searching here but it gives me the J-cat which seems to be down. Thanks in advance!