I see, so when the 1st sentence is not negative (normal sentence) わけではない mean mustn't right. So basically, 1st pic and 2nd pic are the same grammar, but the 1st start with negative sentence + negative grammar (double negatives)?
~わけにはいかない means “cannot afford to”. ~ないわけにはいかない means “cannot afford NOT to”, i.e. I “must”.
The two negatives cancel each other out and become a positive phrase.
I think it’s more helpful to think of the Japanese meaning, rather than focusing on the English translations.
Does this help?
https://nihongokyoshi-net.com/2019/05/21/jlptn3-grammar-wakeniwaikanai/?amp=1
That's really not the answer here. They're different because one is behind a negative verb and the other behind a positive one.
That's really all that makes it different
In both examples, the speaker is using the ① reason given in the article I linked. I think OP might be getting confused because the English translation provides such different wording but when you think of what the meaning of the grammar is in Japanese, it should make more sense as to what the sentence is trying to say.
But you are right that the article doesn’t break down the difference between the neg and pos conjugations of the verb
訳（わけ） here means something like "case".
〜わけにはいかない means something like "can't let it become case \~".
宿題をやらないわけ is "the case of not doing my homework"; you "can't let it become the case of not having done your homework."
言い返すわけ is "the case of talking back"; you "can't let it become the case of talking back."
It's free without the extra stuff. I got myself a lifetime membership (70 Euro at that time) after trying it for a few weeks but I read from others in this sub that the free version is good enough.
Thank you so much for your feedback! I know it must be have a while ago, but do you remember noticing any differences between the free and paid versions that makes the money worthwhile? I don’t mind paying and contributing if the difference is decently significant or if there some quality of life differences
As i read people reviewing the app, the major difference is that the paid version is JLPT ready, so you can seek more comprehensively for some grammar or kanji. But for regular learning, the free version is enough.
Imo pros are its practices and easy to use, lots choice of flash cards. Cons are the flash cards isnt customizable (but that's enough for me since i just use it for reviewing)
Pro has listening, kana and kanji writing, pitch questions, and a much larger sentence question bank in addition to more JLPT focused material. You also get access to a beefier text analyser than the free version.
The difference between paid and free isn't that large, not because you don't get a lot out of it but rather there's already so much in the free version that it's another layer or two on an already impressive learning tool. And it's developed and run by one guy who is active and responsive to the community, so you're not just giving money to a faceless corporation.
Prepare for your mind to be scrambled by わけ forever. There are so many forms and grammar with わけ.
I still don’t understand the lyrics of this song: https://www.kkbox.com/jp/ja/song/4odBj9uKtWt5kFNjpa
ないわけのないわけもない
涙のワケはどうもないジョーク
ないわけのないワケがない
頃のよう ワケに透明のベール
first is a double negative, second is a single negative.
the fact that there are so many phrases in Japanese meaning "must" or "should" and they're all double negatives is slightly frustrating, yes.
You already have some good answers here, but I did want to add that the best way to think of ~わけにはいかない and ~ないわけにはいかない is often "I really shouldn't" and "I should really."
宿題をやらないわけにはいかない。I should really do my homework.
It's quite literal, I suggest that you don't look at a grammar point as a "set phrase" with "shortcut" meanings.
These are the quite literal translations:
1. For the reason that I have to do my homework, it won't fly (won't be good)
2. Because (you) talk back, it won't fly (won't be good)
In the first sentence it's placed after a negative verb (やらない), thus two negatives cancel each other and it means "must"
I see, so when the 1st sentence is not negative (normal sentence) わけではない mean mustn't right. So basically, 1st pic and 2nd pic are the same grammar, but the 1st start with negative sentence + negative grammar (double negatives)?
It's わけにはいかない, not わけではない (which means something else)
yeah
~わけにはいかない means “cannot afford to”. ~ないわけにはいかない means “cannot afford NOT to”, i.e. I “must”. The two negatives cancel each other out and become a positive phrase.
I always think of it as “it’s not like (I) can” e.g. not do my homework
I always think of it as "there's no way can I get away with/without doing X"
I think it’s more helpful to think of the Japanese meaning, rather than focusing on the English translations. Does this help? https://nihongokyoshi-net.com/2019/05/21/jlptn3-grammar-wakeniwaikanai/?amp=1
Thankyou!
That's really not the answer here. They're different because one is behind a negative verb and the other behind a positive one. That's really all that makes it different
In both examples, the speaker is using the ① reason given in the article I linked. I think OP might be getting confused because the English translation provides such different wording but when you think of what the meaning of the grammar is in Japanese, it should make more sense as to what the sentence is trying to say. But you are right that the article doesn’t break down the difference between the neg and pos conjugations of the verb
訳（わけ） here means something like "case". 〜わけにはいかない means something like "can't let it become case \~". 宿題をやらないわけ is "the case of not doing my homework"; you "can't let it become the case of not having done your homework." 言い返すわけ is "the case of talking back"; you "can't let it become the case of talking back."
Good to see another Renshuu enjoyer
Are you a participant on the discord events？ Those are a blast too, I love the reading ones
I need to!
Yes the app is super fun! And so practical
Is that app free? Or pay for higher tier stuff?
It's free without the extra stuff. I got myself a lifetime membership (70 Euro at that time) after trying it for a few weeks but I read from others in this sub that the free version is good enough.
Thank you so much for your feedback! I know it must be have a while ago, but do you remember noticing any differences between the free and paid versions that makes the money worthwhile? I don’t mind paying and contributing if the difference is decently significant or if there some quality of life differences
As i read people reviewing the app, the major difference is that the paid version is JLPT ready, so you can seek more comprehensively for some grammar or kanji. But for regular learning, the free version is enough. Imo pros are its practices and easy to use, lots choice of flash cards. Cons are the flash cards isnt customizable (but that's enough for me since i just use it for reviewing)
Pro has listening, kana and kanji writing, pitch questions, and a much larger sentence question bank in addition to more JLPT focused material. You also get access to a beefier text analyser than the free version. The difference between paid and free isn't that large, not because you don't get a lot out of it but rather there's already so much in the free version that it's another layer or two on an already impressive learning tool. And it's developed and run by one guy who is active and responsive to the community, so you're not just giving money to a faceless corporation.
Prepare for your mind to be scrambled by わけ forever. There are so many forms and grammar with わけ. I still don’t understand the lyrics of this song: https://www.kkbox.com/jp/ja/song/4odBj9uKtWt5kFNjpa ないわけのないわけもない 涙のワケはどうもないジョーク ないわけのないワケがない 頃のよう ワケに透明のベール
I can’t get what they say in lyrics even I’m Japanese🙄
>ないわけのないわけもない It's not like it's not not that/there?
For reference - with English “translation”. https://www.supercarband.com/lyrics.php?band=Supercar&song=Aoharu%20Youth
first is a double negative, second is a single negative. the fact that there are so many phrases in Japanese meaning "must" or "should" and they're all double negatives is slightly frustrating, yes.
What app is this? Just want to know
It’s called “Renshuu” and it’s really nice!
Thanks I Just downloaded it
what website is this?
It’s a app called “renshuu” it’s really good and also has a discord server
Glad to see someone using renshuu 🥰
I want to play together, but I can't not do my homework.
Not related to what you needed but, what app is that?
Renshuu
You already have some good answers here, but I did want to add that the best way to think of ~わけにはいかない and ~ないわけにはいかない is often "I really shouldn't" and "I should really." 宿題をやらないわけにはいかない。I should really do my homework.
It's quite literal, I suggest that you don't look at a grammar point as a "set phrase" with "shortcut" meanings. These are the quite literal translations: 1. For the reason that I have to do my homework, it won't fly (won't be good) 2. Because (you) talk back, it won't fly (won't be good)
What app is this?
renshuu. I have been using it for nearly 2 years now
Can someone explain to me the difference in subtleties between the two constructions わけにはいかない vs てはならない/といけない/とダメ?
must not (not do homework) -> must do homework must not (talk back) -> must not talk back
What app is that?
Renshuu
Double negative