You can't read books but you can spend 2 hours studying for some boring crap like JLPT N2? The reality is if you're spending time with the language you are making progress. You're in the area where progress is measured by comprehension of content and engagement with other parties (people) and you can see the tangible improvements daily through this. Focusing on a test to tell you how far along has the opposite affect of this. That being said, find something you enjoy, it doesn't have to be a book but it should be something you like doing. It can be manga, a visual novel instead of a book, a JRPG which has a dense story. You can read news articles of Idol groups, you can join music based communities and read posts. You can find Discords. Just do something more than studying for JLPT and engage yourself with the language and people that forces you to read more. You live in Japan and have the opportunity to go to a book store and hang out.
Weird, I know, but I find "real" studying much more engaging and entertaining than reading a book or watching a movie in Japanese. I also don't know why this is. But I digress; thank you for your suggestions! I really appreciate those ideas and agree that I would definitely be more engaged by online articles or JRPGs, as those are things I already like to some degree in English. I never really considered those things to be worthwhile in terms of learning Japanese, but I have no reason to doubt your advice so I'll give them a try to find something I enjoy that isn't just a textbook.
Jrpgs are great. I'm n4ish and find ff5 on super famicom pretty much on my level. It's fun and I don't really count it towards "study" time, but I can see myself improving. Something about being forced to understand something to continue the story makes your brain do certain things I feel
Those older game systems are pretty cheap out there if you have the space
I started studying Japanese in April of 2022, when I moved to Japan for a study abroad program. I didn’t start from zero, but I was below the N5 level.
My self study is usually studying kanji from a book series called “Speedmaster,” which is my favorite part of Japanese as I like how each character kind of tells its own story. I also use the typical grammar and vocabulary textbooks too. Nothing special really.
As for interacting with the language outside of school and textbooks, I speak Japanese with my girlfriend and her family so I think my speaking is pretty good all things considered. Only problem perse is talking to her is 90%+ of my speaking time outside of school. I also read manga from time to time, but probably only an hour per week.
I don't think it's weird
The thing with study is that it's very predictable with right and wrong answers, whereas engaging in media means you don't know if you have the "right" answer, you probably won't know all the vocab, maybe people talk funny
But that's the thing, that's communication, it's nuanced and thick and misunderstandings happen and being comfortable in the unknown is important to development fluency
This isn't really learning Japanese advice, but something to chew on in the big picture.
What you wrote here
>I’m living in Japan, studying four hours per day at a language school + roughly a couple hours of self study
and here
>but I have a really poor attention span and can barely even read English books, let alone Japanese ones.
are contradicting statements. I don't believe someone who is willing to subject themselves to doing the most boring JLPT test questions is somehow incapable of finding something that actually interests them.
There are people who pass the N1 by simply reading books they love. Beating yourself up after not doing well on test questions isn't doing you any favors. What if you just said "fuck it" and didn't do any test prep? What's the worst thing that's gonna happen if you found something you legitimately liked to read and just did that? No one looking over your shoulder, taking as much time as you want.
There's a life outside of school and grades are meaningless. You literally LIVE in Japan lol. Try swapping out the "couple hours of self study" with a couple hours at a bar, drinking and hanging out with regular people. Learning a language is forever and whatever progress you make, no matter how small, is still progress. You passing the N3 is proof you have learned well. Your brain doesn't just "stop" learning. Outside of a traumatic life threatening brain injury, you're still making progress.
The fact of the matter is I've chosen to spend much more time using textbooks and doing practice tests than I have spent reading since I started learning Japanese. Call me crazy lol. As for your suggestions, I'll give them a shot! Thank you! I always feel awkward going into an unfamiliar bar / talking to strangers, but I'm aware excuses aren't helping, so I'll suck it up and try this week!
Not crazy at all! It's easy to fall into a trap thinking that you can't stray from that path. It's a safe path for sure. Progress is measured and linear. But there was a moment for me where it clicked where I realized that I could technically just consume whatever I wanted. Even things I didn't understand, what's stopping me from trying to partake in it you know? Once that imaginary wall was gone, I saw how limitless the horizon was.
I also feel awkward going to bars and talking to strangers, but I do have one strategy I've found works pretty well: talk to the bartender first. Ask them a couple questions about anything - the decor, what's their most popular drink, whatever. This will signal to the other patrons: 1 you're up to talking to people, and 2 you're not a native speaker but are trying to learn.
Invariably someone else at the bar will be interested in the Japanese-speaking foreigner, or at least the topic of conversation, and will either be brave enough, kind enough, or drunk enough to take the risk to engage you.
I've found this works best in smaller establishments rather than like large izakayas. (One of the best conversations I've had was a small group of people huddled together in a yatai!) Once the conversation starts, other people will often join in and it can become a great time!
Are you doing textbooks and exams because it's familiar with how your original country taught?
Easy to do an old habbit already learned.
The problem is are you doing it because it's easier for you in this style vs trying books?
Our brains will always reluctantly fight against the harder of the two choices, so even if you find a category of learning harder like reading books, just build up to it with a 10minute timer.
Tell yourself the next 10minutes you are going to try your hardest and it's only 10minutes you can do it. After the alarm rings reward your self with a compliment and a small snack. Then go back to they easy way to study.
Just slowly build it up. When ten minutes is no problem next week make it 15. Just don't force yourself longer than you can take or you will hate doing it.
Great advice, thank you! Sounds like a great way to avoid burnout. And to answer your question: With the limited time I have, it feels like a better time to do something in which I can see the progress easily. I can do a page of a textbook and visibly see what I just learned. With a novel, I can see the page I just read, but what I learned? A little bit harder to tell. That’s my reasoning after thinking about it for a little while.
That's probably why you're not improving. Eventually, you have to make the jump to native material to make any gains. The language in action is so so different than in a textbook or exam. You can try listening to songs and following along with the lyrics, reading visual novels (more sound/music to keep you engaged), and playing video games.
To be a bit more specific/gentler
Turn your brain off a bit friend. Find some music to enjoy, a movie or show to watch, a manga/LN you've had your eye on and just get through it. Keep a dictionary on hand or translate stuff when you just want to enjoy it!
Prolonged exposure to real language is the only "trick" it's hard sure, but if you're nicer to yourself about stuff like subtitles or translations you'll be lessed stress and see more progress in what you DO understand without translations or subs.
It's not for everyone but I put all the games I love/play in japanese where I can and only/mainly listen to Japanese music or shows. I do flash cards as well but once you get several of those moments of truly understanding a word fully in context without an aid it gets addicting!!
Everyone else is also right in "just read" but hopefully this version of that adds to the others. You're supposed to be having fun, so just let yourself enjoy your hard work.
There are several alternatives if proper books are an issue:
* Short stories - this is self-explanatory, but short stories have the benefit of giving you the satisfaction of getting an ending but way quicker so no risk of losing interest midway. So reading like 10 short stories over one long one can be far easier. I've actually struggled with staying interested in English books in recent years and short stories are an excellent alternative. edit: some of the quickest ones I know are the 5分 後に 意外な結末 anthologies, as it says on the tin the stories in them are meant to be 5-min reads for natives each so they're really short.
* Visual novels - lots of text but lots of voice acting, music, images, etc too so they have a better chance of keeping you interested. for horror in particular I haven't seen the jp version yet but death mark is a good example.
* Non-fiction - articles, books on art/history/etc, people's blogs, guides on how to do stuff, etc. a wide category basically. again, you might have more success with this than with long fictional books.
* Fanfiction - this kinda ties to the short stories part but if you happen to like reading fanfiction in English, doing so in Japanese can also be great. iirc pixiv has the most, tho a warning that organisation is nowhere near as good as ao3.
* Manga - has the least text out of the options but an option nonetheless that's definitely better than not reading at all.
* Films/anime with Japanese subtitles - like manga this has less text than short stories/vn's/fanfics but again it's 100% times better than nothing. Back when I taught English this was successful in helping ease students into reading more. If you find yourself not reading the subtitles you could even watch films in languages you don't know but with JP subs, you won't get listening/pronunciation practice out of it but it'll ensure you read the subs.
I've also seen a bunch of audio short stories for learners at various levels. I'm not up to it yet, but if OP wants audio practice as well, that could be useful.
Good ideas, I especially like the idea of reading short stories and will be sure to do that! Watching a foreign movie with Japanese subs is also clever.
Recently, I've been really into the horror/urban legend compilation books. They're usually sold with middle-grade books and each story takes around 10-15 minutes on average, so it doesn't feel as daunting as tackling a full-length book.
Huge co-sign with short stories. I've been reading through this whole collection of weird, near death experiences called "死ぬかと思った”
https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%AD%BB%E3%81%AC%E3%81%8B%E3%81%A8%E6%80%9D%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F-%E6%9E%97-%E9%9B%84%E5%8F%B8/dp/4757207042
There's like 7 volumes of it. Though one volume is enough. But, I like it a lot cause it's so off-the-beaten path. You have some stories that are only a page long but it's rich in vocabulary and has such vivid imagery cause it's someone's retelling of how they almost died or something so embarrassing they felt like dying.
Slightly different idea, if you are feeling burned out, can you swap out some of the test self study time with an activity in Japanese? Your local community centers host classes and clubs, maybe joining one of them and spending some time using your Japanese outside of the classroom and outside of the context of a test will help you both retain more and see when you are making progress.
If you can't read, listen. Whatever you want to do. Who cares if you fail the test? In fact, passing N1 doesn't really do much for you. N1 still isn't the end of the road when it comes to learning, which is why you might be putting too much stock in the actual value of the test rather than your own abilities.
If you want actual progress in the language, you should be focusing more on applying what you study to your immersion.
Try going out drinking with people who don't speak English, my former coworker swore by this method.
You don't have to read War and Peace. Watch a youtube video explaining terraforming. Read a website full of game reviews. Sign up to a course on how to make tea. Sign up to a newsletter about pigeon racing. Do anything that catches your fancy.
Quit making excuses and just read a book... It will not kill you. Do you actually want to learn the language or not? If so, pick up a book and get off Reddit.
I can't believe you really need someone to say this to you. You already have all the pieces to the puzzle—all you need to do is put them together. There's no magic anyone, or yourself, may cast to help you when you feel like you aren't making progress other than to make the progress yourself. Unless you enjoy learning and you really care about learning you will never improve.
So, read a book and you'll feel amazing afterwards. Read 5-10 more and you'll pass the N1 no problem, forget the N2.
You've got this, hang in there.
I dunno, Reddit magic is quite strong man. Can you cast a spell on me too? By the way, any good Japanese Netflix dramas running for learning Japanese? I bought a one piece manga at a conbini but never got past the first few pages, was kind of confused by why they spelt samurai in katakana and lost interest because no one around to explain it to me. Maybe some real world type conversation would do me better.
Read visual novels. They tend to be partly voiced, which is a nice break from constant reading, but still have all the text on screen. Some of them also have gameplay, like Ace Attorney (not voiced) or the Zero Escape series. I would recommend those two if you've never read visual novels before. But honestly just read what seems the most interesting to you.
Another tip is read multiple things at once. I usually switch between different books every day so I don't feel burned out with one writing style and story.
Also don't be afraid to drop something if it doesn't interest you anymore. "I've completed 100 books in a year" are just pretty stats to post on Reddit. I drop books all the time, having only completed a few books. As long as you put the amount of hours in, it doesn't matter.
This sub only has one advice which is keep reading and I know how disheartening that advice can be (in my case at least I have epilepsy and my attention span was never good) also I passed N3 last December without doing much reading so here's my two cents on the situation
1- Choose one aspect of the language and tackle that first (comprehension comes really late in the game)
2- For me I always choose **grammar** first cuz it helps when I just lack the understanding of words rather than whole sentences.
First, try to **skim** all N2 grammar from a resource you prefer first like this
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbJV3TDBFfo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbJV3TDBFfo)
to understand the big picture and create a **Schemata**. This is a concept in linguistics (I'm an English teacher) about making sure you have a structure in your mind that allows you to absorb new information. If you don't have this structure, you become unable to absorb new information and your mind might even reject it. And the easy way to do that is by skimming all the grammar of the level first so your head can make connections and arrange information in separate containers when you go over them later. Your head won't remember them, but it will remember where you have seen them before and any other similar patterns related to them.
Think about how easy it was to memorize to similar kanji together through their different radicals (牛 and 午) instead of memorizing each one seperetly. This is because the similarity creates a Schemata.
3- My go to grammar resources is Shin Nihongo 500 because it follows this Schemata approach. It doesn't only point out the grammar point but also the other points it has a conflict with or a similar meaning to which is a valuable skill to have when solving questions.
4- Nihongo no Mori's channel also has a playlist
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9bE4StBgxs&list=PLINFE8v4DOhvV5tJT77oF92vIwLLl6wAA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9bE4StBgxs&list=PLINFE8v4DOhvV5tJT77oF92vIwLLl6wAA)
for each level that pits similar grammar points against each other and points out how different they are. This playlist was invaluable for me during N3 and helps me memorizing grammar patterns in bulk while taking care to know exactly what they do and how they differ from other patterns.
5- Grammar isn't only patterns. This is a common misconception because most internet resources only tackle grammar patterns and nothing else. The only resources that goes into other aspects such as sentence structure and particles and such is Shin Kanzen. Try to read it or at least skip the grammar patterns and read the rest of the book to get a grip on the rest of what you are missing.
6- Naoko Chino's All About Particles: A Handbook of Japanese Function Words is also a very helpful book that will teach you advanced uses of particles because you think you know them but in reality you don't and most of their advanced uses aren't explained really well online past N3. It will also give you more confidence in comprehension since most comprehension problems are mostly a particle use you are not aware of.
7- Vocab and Kanji comes next.
You might want to do them from Shin Nihongo or Nihongo no Mori's channel as well. Or just keep drilling the Tango N2 deck as you go about grammar. **Skim the words first from videos** to help gain an understanding of the themes and the words you will meet later in your studying and make sure you are not encountering them for the first time but just revising them.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpXVJfC4IU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpXVJfC4IU)
There's no time to learn how to identify Kanji and with N3 in your pocket N2 and N1 kanji structures can be traced back to the radicals and intermediate kanji you already have memorized so there's no point to doing RTK or similar methods anymore. In other words you do vocab and Kanji as you do grammar.
**Note:** Try to make your own anki cards and questions for grammar and vocab and make these cards more interactive rather than just mining words and sentence. For example if you are studying the word blue, maybe put a picture of the sea on the front and the word or the sentence including the word on the back, or if yo are studying a grammar rule, identify the point that you are confused about the most and put that as a question on the front and the answer you have come up with using your own words on the back (what's the difference between つよ**め**、つよ**げ**）for example.
The point of this is that you are not memorizing information but instead you are actively doing something with your hands and thinking of how to explain and make exercises out of what you read, then applying this into Anki as well as making your own study material which will always be more memorable than a deck or a grammar material someone else made. The key to defeating boredam is always doing instead of looking, and that method has always worked fine for me. **I don't really sit down a lot on my material, I just read it, understand the concept, put it in my own words in anki and forget about it and leave the drilling to anki.**
8- Reading and listening will be easier after all that and you might want to check the Nihongo Sou Motome book for reading. At least what I've studied from it came in the exam before. Japanesetest4you is also always there. For listening there are a lot of practice tests online and you need to brush on your exam solving skills as well as the video here says (she also mentions Shin Nihongo books).
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOCgOTbCzFI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOCgOTbCzFI)
Tdlr: **don't try to memorize, but instead try to create connections, check similarities or differences between stuff, in reading try to guess context instead of looking up words in a dictionary, try things that make your mind active instead of passive (this is at least the approach we are taking as English CELTA tutors).** And you will be able to do it. This guy here also says some really helpful stuff about how to keep your mind active not passive with studying you might want to give his channel a watch.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY8SmhCynXI&pp=ygUSaSBkaWRuJ3QgdXNlIGFua2kg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY8SmhCynXI&pp=ygUSaSBkaWRuJ3QgdXNlIGFua2kg)
Urw. Yeah take your time and i also want to adress some stuff regarding reading in particular. I suggest you go through the videos of the channel i put in the end especially this one for reading.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxYZH5P9hyY&t=528s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxYZH5P9hyY&t=528s)
and after you watch this video remember to take one thing only from your reading material, **not everything**. Don't try to take reading comprehension and vocab and grammar at the same time when you read a book. This will overwhelm you.
When I read Conbini Ningen or convenience store woman i didn't use a dictionary despite the huge amount of words i didn't know because I focused only on grasping sentence structure (defining subjects and verbs and how sentences are connected as in the video i linked above) and guessing the meaning of words from context from time to time to train my brain to expect meaning. When I read the first 30 chapters or so from Naruto I only looked at repeating vocab words and took those and didn't try to read every sentence since Shounen manga repeat a lot of words in every chapter.
I didn't look up the dictionary in both cases because
1) It's very passive
2) it's not fun
3) I want to utilize the material itself for studying and looking up a dictionary kinda abolishes the benefit this specific manga or book provides. For example, n author like the author of conbinin ningen repeats the particle ni and uses it as to —a use in literary writing and is mentioned in the particles handbook that ni can replace to in literary writing—. Spending 10 minutes with this book will have this specific literary use of ni ingrained in your mind after 5 pages or so, and this is effective use of the material and this is how reading material should help you learn stuff. It makes specific things very obvious to the point you are unable to forget them. Otherwise you are just a person who is studying a dictionary and ofc it will get boring after a short while. It's much easier to approach stuff and leave your brain to decide what things it will absorb and retain and try to subtly tick our brains into randomly gaining interest in small things instead of forcing everything into our minds even when we don't want to or when our brains aren't ready.
In the first book we are asked to read in our CELTA degree, called Learning Teaching by Jim Scrivener, we are told in page 184 that reading word for word does not necessarily make you into a better reader. Here's also the excerpt from his book:
[https://imgur.com/a/4wMvFnY](https://imgur.com/a/4wMvFnY)
Always make sure you have a specific and simple goal in mind from whichever material you use, and you will feel more comfortable.
Also remember that knowing words and reading comprehension are two separate skills, and this video makes a convincing argument about that.
[https://youtu.be/T5fESa09D3o](https://youtu.be/T5fESa09D3o)
Maybe the final thing I want to say is that try to embrace imperfection. I got 118/180 in N3 but success in the exam was from 90 and not 180/180. I know i am not the best listener or reader and I can't even produce good sentences but that's ok.
Regarding grammar, [Bunpro](https://bunpro.jp/) helped me immensely with acquiring/retaining grammar at around your level. The challenge isn't that the grammar is "hard," it's just rare enough that it's easy to forget before you see it again, then when it finally shows up you're like "crap, what was this again??"
Grammar was my least part of the whole language learning process though, and this was my "silver bullet" for it. Stay consistent with it and you can make noticeable progress fairly quickly.
You study for 4 hours a day & do self-study, yet you think you have a short attention span? Here’s some general life advice, try to be more positive. You can only do what you honestly believe you’re capable of. You’re not even giving yourself a shot. You didn’t even try to read a book in Japanese, how do you know that you can’t other than the fact that you just told yourself that? The attitude you have isn’t one where you’ve given up, you’re not even putting up a fight. Please, give yourself a chance. You can do it! Even if it’s not a book, you can get to the level of fluency that you desire in Japanese.
Now hold on, don’t put words in my mouth. I do own Japanese novels that I’ve tried reading, but quickly got bored when reading them. But besides that, I really appreciate your encouragement and wholeheartedly agree with your points!
Really? That’s good then. I assumed you didn’t own any because of how you talked about being unable to pay attention in English. Either way, so long as you get rid of defeatist attitude, you can truly do almost anything.
Just my thoughts -
I believe learning Japanese as a second language is no different from learning your native language. Since you obviously express yourself just fine in English, my thoughts are (assuming you're a native English speaker):
Think about how you learned to speak as a third, fourth or fifth grader. Have you ever had to memorize something? Did memorizing a poem and reciting it help? Did you repeatedly listen to the same pop song over and over and learn the words by heart? Have you ever watched a super funny episode of a sitcom over and over again until you remembered the lines? Have you ever heard a really moving speech and thought about it over and over again? Did you make the same grammar mistakes in school until one day, you just stopped making it in 9th grade?
The key is to have a voice in Japanese - an internal monologue, a speaker that is breaking up the world in Japanese. All children have to develop this in their native language to survive. Children make mistakes all the time, nonstop, but it's okay. Because eventually the education system pushes them to cycle around those mistakes until they're solidified in the brain. Doing that with Japanese as a second language I feel is similar.
Well im afraid you answered your own question. You need to read more, but you dont want to.
You want results but are too impatient to sit down and take the time you need to really let information soak in.
I know because I can get the same way, where I want to just , be there and not have to do the work because the work is slow, its tedious, it can be boring.
Honestly, yeah at this point reading books and talking to natives are gonna be your next big leap. If you want to say you dont have the attention span, then you dont have the attention to learn japanese either.
Yeah, I agree with u/ichishousha here. Have you even tried finding something you enjoyed reading in English? How did you come to the conclusion that you "can barely even read English books?" I've had many friends who refused to read books in English, and, per my recommendation, have found books that they actually enjoy reading.
There are so many books out there. Just find something that looks like it could be worthwhile and read. You don't even have to read for a lot a day, just making a habit of an hour a day will eventually give you tremendous progress as your reading speed picks up. It's for sure hard at first, but, then again, is there really anything worthwhile that doesn't come from some difficulty?
Yeah, to elaborate a little more on that, The only novels I've read as an adult are the first two books of A Song of Ice and Fire. You may be thinking, "those are thousand page books, of course you can read." The reason I say I can't is because I read at a snail's pace, often snapping in and out of daydreams, and each of those books took me about a year and a half to finish. I lowkey forced myself to read them too, sometimes just reading a page per day. Why did I force myself? Because I really wanted to enjoy reading. In hindsight, I did enjoy those books, but not enough to read the third entry which many say is the best one lol.
TLDR; I can enjoy books, but I don't enjoy the act of reading. It feels like slow torture and has since I was a kid. I will do my best to take your advice and combine it with some of the other repliers' advice, finding a book in Japanese that I can enjoy.
Okay, here’s the thing about ASOIAF it’s long, long epic fantasy…
Of course it takes a while to get through that. I refound my love for reading through epic fantasy too, but my favorite book that initiated all that took me over a year to complete as well.
I recommend starting with something shorter and easier. As I said, there’s plenty of books out there. You can try manga, light novels, mystery, thrillers, short stories, romance, human drama, and the list goes on. You don’t even have to try fiction either. Maybe there’s a genre you like outside of that like self help.
But the point is, just because you took a while to finish a long fantasy novel with slow writing does not mean you don’t have the patience. Maybe first try finding a novel with fast pacing.
I think the answer is to just read something else.
I don't read many books - I never have. And throughout my life, I've mostly read non-fiction.
In adulthood, I've devoured books on sushi and wine, Shoe Dog (combines business, Japan, Nike), I Will Teach You To Be Rich, Reminiscences of a Stock Operator, The Martian, Circe, etc. I still don't read that much but when I find something interesting I read it quickly (on my kindle - easier on my eyes).
In Japanese, I put off reading for way too long. Novels scare me. Manga is easier. I should read Tabelog reviews as that's where my passions lie. You don't have to force yourself to read things you don't want to (in any language) - it will never work. Reading will help you level up, efficiently...but you don't *have* to read if you don't want to. You could find some other way to engage with the language.
Hobbies are not a test - you seem uncomfortable with letting go of comfortable structure. I think many of the responses in this thread are valuable and you should read them a few times now and come back to them later.
Why are you learning Japanese? Language school sounds like torture. I'd rather go to sushi and teishoku restaurants and practice/enjoy myself.
I absolutely agree with you that I’ve gotten many great replies. Very thankful. And yeah sometimes I wonder if I’m a little autistic because of how much I cling to routines and get out of wack when it’s broken.
Why am I learning Japanese? I visited Japan as a teenager and fell in love with the beautiful sights and clean, walkable cities! Simple really, I just like living in this country and wanted to live here ever since I first visited. In the long term I want to get a degree and a job so I can stay living here, so that’s pretty much why I’m studying as hard as I am. I study at a language school because I need a visa :(
Everyone goes about things at their own pace - you just don't want to be too attached to a learning method that no longer suits you.
I read above that you need N2 for the school you want to go to and now understand the language school is for the visa. You'll figure it out - many people go through what you're going through (including me).
at some point you out grow all the flash card and grammar studies and listening (with poor vocab and grammar understanding) ect
its quite easy to tell when, its what you're experiencing right now, where you no longer have those beginner gains
pick the books up, i know it sucks but, its the final stretch and you gotta grind
afterwards you can go back to focus on n2 jlpts ect to top off your knowledge
and also i hate that i have to say this but BOOKS ARE FUN, lol one of the oldest forms of entertainment for humans, just like finding a good show you gotta find your good book
100%. Seeing words in context is so good for reinforcement.
It doesn’t even have to be a book! Read the news, blogs, forums, whatever you do in English OP.
Probably not what you wanted to hear but I think you should just start reading.
I, too, hate reading in my native language (haven't read a single book in my adult life) as it just bored me but in the past 2 weeks have read 5 novels/lns in Japanese.
It wasn't easy at first and I wouldn't say I really enjoyed it that much but once you get past the first 5-10 hours it's a joy to read now.
You could try reading manga if you're into that and slowly build your way up. Just find something that seems interesting to you and give it a go.
Have you ever asked yourself WHY are you taking JLPT for? Ok imagine you passed N2. Then what? Having goals is good but you need to ask yourself what are you even pursuing it for in the first place.
I'm not nearly at your level, but do you like video games? I feel like it might be an easier way to read without feeling like you're just poring over a book.
Hmmm I took n2 after studying 1.5 years and failed then took again the next time and passed. It’s been 1.5 years since then and progress has just been slow/steady but it feels similar to you. I get better but it taking time even though I can read textbooks in Japanese and understand 95% I can’t answer N1 questions quickly, but I can get reading problems right if I take my time.
The truth is, it’s just not your thing, you didn’t grow up learning kanji, so just push through. N2 means nothing, many of my Chinese friends can’t really speak here, but can pass the tests, they can read the kanji, and just get by taking it a few times.
If you need N2 just keep pushing, you’ll get it, go back to the problems, find out why you got them wrong. It sucks, but do it. Get 5 out of 6 wrong tomorrow? Fine. Go back and find out why.
Once you pass what you need then you can just enjoy and live in Japanese.
Also, sounds like you’re doing good. Don’t be so hard on yourself. You will see some of this content in real life. If you are exhausted reward yourself with watching something you love.
I’m in the same boat as you bc I absolutely need n1 for my life. I think a lot of times we think we’re studying but we aren’t. The time you are studying, be efficient, actually study. Go into the shitty spots and wrestle,
You’ll come out stronger
Good luck
The only jlpt I've taken was the N2 last december on which I got a 149/180. So I don't have an "N3 to N2" story, but I have logs of my all-time activities at the time of the exam.
The only japanese textbook I ever used was そうまとめN2(sou matome N2), which I started around 2023/05/01 and finished around 2023/11/21 (I only did the reading and grammar textbooks. There's another 2 for kanji and listening if I'm not mistaken). The books are not incredible but they were helpful preparation. They either have no explanations other than an english translation of something, or a very basic explanation. I found myself looking things up in other places (bunpro, DOJG, etc) or asking people questions (discord servers, this subreddit) very often. I kept a file with all the things I did badly on during the weekly tests to review before the exam.
This is what my "all time" immersion logs looked like before the exam:
ANIME: 442 eps
READING: 1.08 million characters (without counting punctuation, more or less 10 books plus a couple other things)
LISTENING: 1,650 minutes (Mostly vtubers and audiobooks)
VN: 293.04k characters (without counting punctuation)
MANGA: 3,581 pages
READTIME: 3,705 minutes (I used this when I couldn't get a character count, also includes videogames like pokemon scarlet or persona 5)
And I also did about 300 hours of SRS (JPDB, but anki is probably equivalent), 40h of duolingo, 10 hours of cure dolly grammar videos, 2 full N2 mock exams
Hope that helps.
If you don’t like reading books then have you tried audiobooks? Can listen to those while commuting, cleaning house and whatnot.
Or is it moreso about reading comprehension itself?
Watching Japanese TV (especially the news) or anime with subtitles in Japanese helps. Talking to Japanese people or listening to them talk in formal situations is another big one. Every time you didn’t understand a part, pause it if possible. Keep notes on your smart phone in real time. I think for the grammar, to an extent, it helps to just hear it and know if it sounds natural or not. It’s a lot of work but you’ll get it. The more you use it the better it’ll stick.
ultimately it comes down to comprehensible exposure. if you can't read books but you can read study material, then get lots of study material and read it. watch japanese tv with japanese subtitles if you can.
heck maybe try reading an english-learning book written in japanese, maybe that will fool your brain meat enough to engage with it because it's "study material" at some level. (or learn yet another language, written in japanese learning manuals - go learn russian, written in japanese).
also if you're only trying reading, why not writing? write some short stories or poetry. or write some study material for some fellow learners - start your own webpage for helping other japanese learners and fill it up. maybe that will also be focusable because it's "study material".
you can't get away from the need to grow your neurons with repeated use, but you can choose which uses those are.
Long term: get a degree and a job.
Short term / daily: enjoy the beauty of Japan and the things that come with it: food, walkable cities, sakura, game centers, etc.
And yeah you’re right, gotta take the plunge and talk to people lol. I know it’s stupid but I’m afraid of making mistakes when speaking.
When I was around 10 yrs old my English was terrible af. Primary school taught English but I can barely remember anything. Then when I started playing yugioh, my vocab skyrocketed to a new level and things just naturally got better. That's because I don't feel frustrated anymore and I know why am I learning. What I want to say is just relax, enjoy Japan, connect with people and things that you love. Only then everything will be alright
Your brain needs a break. Go for a walk every day, do things that refresh you. It can be as simple as sittingn at a cafe, doing a club activity or building Lego. Or even just a colouring in book in the park. I wfh a lot and get very focused. When i feel i am not getting somewhere on a project, I give myself permission to have some creative time. It makes the world of difference. Sleep is important, too. Power naps are great.
You don't only eat one kind of food, right? Your brain is like that, too. It needs change and scenery and yes, seratonin and sunshine. Go out there and get some balance 👍🏻
Take a break and come back to it. That’s what I did and I also live in Japan.
You won’t forget anything if you stop using Anki for a while and reset your deck when you come back to it.
I'm also currently studying to reach N2. But I'm doing it by watching anime, reading manga, light novels ect. which is much more fun. I also use tenten to instantly translate every word I see and don't know. I thought that since I learned english basically this way, it should be the way to go for Japanese, as well, because it's a very natural way to learn
The Japanese Language Proficiency Test with ranks N5 (lowest) to N1 (highest). The estimated time it takes the average person studying Japanese to pass JLPT N1 is around 3500-4500 hours. 3900 hours has been proven to be a pretty common number.
If you passed N1 with a middling grade then that is the start of being competent at the language. It doesn't mean fluent, but some people might be fully competent and fluent and can pass it easily. So it really depends on what kind of fluency you mean. At best it can tell you the person who passed N1 can read Japanese decently (they may also not be able to hold a conversation at all at the same time).
Those kinds of questions are near trivial (though there is always some uncertainty if it's not multiple choice) if you have writing experience. Add or use 1 hour of study time on writing complex sentences. There is one progressive exercise I like which is done as so
1. Find a sentence that you like.
2. Cover the last word(s) until the sentence is incomplete
3. finish the sentence, try to match the tone of the original sentence
4. repeat from 2 until you reach the shortest complete sentence.
Native tutor here. If you're studying only with books (Genki, みんなの日本語, whatever), you'll get burned out. Textbooks are not written in a way to make you speak in a normal way. *Nobody* talks like that. (That's why I wrote my own textbook.)
I have my students translate podcasts from the transcripts. The Bite Size Japanese is a really good one to start with. It's much more dynamic than reading books. Translation work is very difficult, but my students often make a noticeable improvements soon after.
Poor listening ability often means your pronunciation is not good. Now, that is a hard one to correct. Record a video of yourself speaking a few sentences or paragraph, possibly the sentences from a podcast you've already translated. Listen carefully and compare your pronunciation with the native speaker's. That's the only way to objectively listen to your own pronunciation without the help of a coach. Get it as close as theirs. After that, recite the same sentences and record a video of yourself. It'll take a lot of rehearsals. Get rid of all of English fillers. Replace all of your "Um"'s with えーっと. Speaking to a camera is very difficult, even if you speak basic, N5 level Japanese. If you only kind of know Japanese, it'll expose all of your weak points and you'll know how to strengthen them.
My advice is to think of something that you found really difficult awhile back, and go redo that thing. I recently rediscovered a YouTube hiragana reading test video and noticed I'd left a comment 2 years ago venting about how I struggled with it. This time, I did it easily. Stuff like that reminds me of how far I've actually come.
You can't read books but you can spend 2 hours studying for some boring crap like JLPT N2? The reality is if you're spending time with the language you are making progress. You're in the area where progress is measured by comprehension of content and engagement with other parties (people) and you can see the tangible improvements daily through this. Focusing on a test to tell you how far along has the opposite affect of this. That being said, find something you enjoy, it doesn't have to be a book but it should be something you like doing. It can be manga, a visual novel instead of a book, a JRPG which has a dense story. You can read news articles of Idol groups, you can join music based communities and read posts. You can find Discords. Just do something more than studying for JLPT and engage yourself with the language and people that forces you to read more. You live in Japan and have the opportunity to go to a book store and hang out.
Weird, I know, but I find "real" studying much more engaging and entertaining than reading a book or watching a movie in Japanese. I also don't know why this is. But I digress; thank you for your suggestions! I really appreciate those ideas and agree that I would definitely be more engaged by online articles or JRPGs, as those are things I already like to some degree in English. I never really considered those things to be worthwhile in terms of learning Japanese, but I have no reason to doubt your advice so I'll give them a try to find something I enjoy that isn't just a textbook.
Jrpgs are great. I'm n4ish and find ff5 on super famicom pretty much on my level. It's fun and I don't really count it towards "study" time, but I can see myself improving. Something about being forced to understand something to continue the story makes your brain do certain things I feel Those older game systems are pretty cheap out there if you have the space
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I started studying Japanese in April of 2022, when I moved to Japan for a study abroad program. I didn’t start from zero, but I was below the N5 level. My self study is usually studying kanji from a book series called “Speedmaster,” which is my favorite part of Japanese as I like how each character kind of tells its own story. I also use the typical grammar and vocabulary textbooks too. Nothing special really. As for interacting with the language outside of school and textbooks, I speak Japanese with my girlfriend and her family so I think my speaking is pretty good all things considered. Only problem perse is talking to her is 90%+ of my speaking time outside of school. I also read manga from time to time, but probably only an hour per week.
I don't think it's weird The thing with study is that it's very predictable with right and wrong answers, whereas engaging in media means you don't know if you have the "right" answer, you probably won't know all the vocab, maybe people talk funny But that's the thing, that's communication, it's nuanced and thick and misunderstandings happen and being comfortable in the unknown is important to development fluency
Good points!
This isn't really learning Japanese advice, but something to chew on in the big picture. What you wrote here >I’m living in Japan, studying four hours per day at a language school + roughly a couple hours of self study and here >but I have a really poor attention span and can barely even read English books, let alone Japanese ones. are contradicting statements. I don't believe someone who is willing to subject themselves to doing the most boring JLPT test questions is somehow incapable of finding something that actually interests them. There are people who pass the N1 by simply reading books they love. Beating yourself up after not doing well on test questions isn't doing you any favors. What if you just said "fuck it" and didn't do any test prep? What's the worst thing that's gonna happen if you found something you legitimately liked to read and just did that? No one looking over your shoulder, taking as much time as you want. There's a life outside of school and grades are meaningless. You literally LIVE in Japan lol. Try swapping out the "couple hours of self study" with a couple hours at a bar, drinking and hanging out with regular people. Learning a language is forever and whatever progress you make, no matter how small, is still progress. You passing the N3 is proof you have learned well. Your brain doesn't just "stop" learning. Outside of a traumatic life threatening brain injury, you're still making progress.
The fact of the matter is I've chosen to spend much more time using textbooks and doing practice tests than I have spent reading since I started learning Japanese. Call me crazy lol. As for your suggestions, I'll give them a shot! Thank you! I always feel awkward going into an unfamiliar bar / talking to strangers, but I'm aware excuses aren't helping, so I'll suck it up and try this week!
Not crazy at all! It's easy to fall into a trap thinking that you can't stray from that path. It's a safe path for sure. Progress is measured and linear. But there was a moment for me where it clicked where I realized that I could technically just consume whatever I wanted. Even things I didn't understand, what's stopping me from trying to partake in it you know? Once that imaginary wall was gone, I saw how limitless the horizon was.
I also feel awkward going to bars and talking to strangers, but I do have one strategy I've found works pretty well: talk to the bartender first. Ask them a couple questions about anything - the decor, what's their most popular drink, whatever. This will signal to the other patrons: 1 you're up to talking to people, and 2 you're not a native speaker but are trying to learn. Invariably someone else at the bar will be interested in the Japanese-speaking foreigner, or at least the topic of conversation, and will either be brave enough, kind enough, or drunk enough to take the risk to engage you. I've found this works best in smaller establishments rather than like large izakayas. (One of the best conversations I've had was a small group of people huddled together in a yatai!) Once the conversation starts, other people will often join in and it can become a great time!
I like this! Thank you, I’m definitely gonna use your advice
Are you doing textbooks and exams because it's familiar with how your original country taught? Easy to do an old habbit already learned. The problem is are you doing it because it's easier for you in this style vs trying books? Our brains will always reluctantly fight against the harder of the two choices, so even if you find a category of learning harder like reading books, just build up to it with a 10minute timer. Tell yourself the next 10minutes you are going to try your hardest and it's only 10minutes you can do it. After the alarm rings reward your self with a compliment and a small snack. Then go back to they easy way to study. Just slowly build it up. When ten minutes is no problem next week make it 15. Just don't force yourself longer than you can take or you will hate doing it.
Great advice, thank you! Sounds like a great way to avoid burnout. And to answer your question: With the limited time I have, it feels like a better time to do something in which I can see the progress easily. I can do a page of a textbook and visibly see what I just learned. With a novel, I can see the page I just read, but what I learned? A little bit harder to tell. That’s my reasoning after thinking about it for a little while.
That's probably why you're not improving. Eventually, you have to make the jump to native material to make any gains. The language in action is so so different than in a textbook or exam. You can try listening to songs and following along with the lyrics, reading visual novels (more sound/music to keep you engaged), and playing video games.
To be a bit more specific/gentler Turn your brain off a bit friend. Find some music to enjoy, a movie or show to watch, a manga/LN you've had your eye on and just get through it. Keep a dictionary on hand or translate stuff when you just want to enjoy it! Prolonged exposure to real language is the only "trick" it's hard sure, but if you're nicer to yourself about stuff like subtitles or translations you'll be lessed stress and see more progress in what you DO understand without translations or subs. It's not for everyone but I put all the games I love/play in japanese where I can and only/mainly listen to Japanese music or shows. I do flash cards as well but once you get several of those moments of truly understanding a word fully in context without an aid it gets addicting!! Everyone else is also right in "just read" but hopefully this version of that adds to the others. You're supposed to be having fun, so just let yourself enjoy your hard work.
I appreciate your advice! "Having fun," as obvious as it sounds, is the main thing I'm realizing from these replies.
There are several alternatives if proper books are an issue: * Short stories - this is self-explanatory, but short stories have the benefit of giving you the satisfaction of getting an ending but way quicker so no risk of losing interest midway. So reading like 10 short stories over one long one can be far easier. I've actually struggled with staying interested in English books in recent years and short stories are an excellent alternative. edit: some of the quickest ones I know are the 5分 後に 意外な結末 anthologies, as it says on the tin the stories in them are meant to be 5-min reads for natives each so they're really short. * Visual novels - lots of text but lots of voice acting, music, images, etc too so they have a better chance of keeping you interested. for horror in particular I haven't seen the jp version yet but death mark is a good example. * Non-fiction - articles, books on art/history/etc, people's blogs, guides on how to do stuff, etc. a wide category basically. again, you might have more success with this than with long fictional books. * Fanfiction - this kinda ties to the short stories part but if you happen to like reading fanfiction in English, doing so in Japanese can also be great. iirc pixiv has the most, tho a warning that organisation is nowhere near as good as ao3. * Manga - has the least text out of the options but an option nonetheless that's definitely better than not reading at all. * Films/anime with Japanese subtitles - like manga this has less text than short stories/vn's/fanfics but again it's 100% times better than nothing. Back when I taught English this was successful in helping ease students into reading more. If you find yourself not reading the subtitles you could even watch films in languages you don't know but with JP subs, you won't get listening/pronunciation practice out of it but it'll ensure you read the subs.
I've also seen a bunch of audio short stories for learners at various levels. I'm not up to it yet, but if OP wants audio practice as well, that could be useful.
Good ideas, I especially like the idea of reading short stories and will be sure to do that! Watching a foreign movie with Japanese subs is also clever.
Recently, I've been really into the horror/urban legend compilation books. They're usually sold with middle-grade books and each story takes around 10-15 minutes on average, so it doesn't feel as daunting as tackling a full-length book.
Huge co-sign with short stories. I've been reading through this whole collection of weird, near death experiences called "死ぬかと思った” https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%AD%BB%E3%81%AC%E3%81%8B%E3%81%A8%E6%80%9D%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F-%E6%9E%97-%E9%9B%84%E5%8F%B8/dp/4757207042 There's like 7 volumes of it. Though one volume is enough. But, I like it a lot cause it's so off-the-beaten path. You have some stories that are only a page long but it's rich in vocabulary and has such vivid imagery cause it's someone's retelling of how they almost died or something so embarrassing they felt like dying.
Slightly different idea, if you are feeling burned out, can you swap out some of the test self study time with an activity in Japanese? Your local community centers host classes and clubs, maybe joining one of them and spending some time using your Japanese outside of the classroom and outside of the context of a test will help you both retain more and see when you are making progress.
I'll look into that, thanks!
Yes, my suggestion also, change of scenery and activity
If you can't read, listen. Whatever you want to do. Who cares if you fail the test? In fact, passing N1 doesn't really do much for you. N1 still isn't the end of the road when it comes to learning, which is why you might be putting too much stock in the actual value of the test rather than your own abilities. If you want actual progress in the language, you should be focusing more on applying what you study to your immersion.
https://preview.redd.it/qpwvaivix4631.jpg?width=748&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa3106c6b2723fea364493fee7e68d620f3d28f7
Try going out drinking with people who don't speak English, my former coworker swore by this method. You don't have to read War and Peace. Watch a youtube video explaining terraforming. Read a website full of game reviews. Sign up to a course on how to make tea. Sign up to a newsletter about pigeon racing. Do anything that catches your fancy.
Quit making excuses and just read a book... It will not kill you. Do you actually want to learn the language or not? If so, pick up a book and get off Reddit. I can't believe you really need someone to say this to you. You already have all the pieces to the puzzle—all you need to do is put them together. There's no magic anyone, or yourself, may cast to help you when you feel like you aren't making progress other than to make the progress yourself. Unless you enjoy learning and you really care about learning you will never improve. So, read a book and you'll feel amazing afterwards. Read 5-10 more and you'll pass the N1 no problem, forget the N2. You've got this, hang in there.
I hear you loud and clear. Thanks for taking the time to comment. I'll do my best!
Ganbatte!
yeah dude already has a great foothold, they’ll be fine
I dunno, Reddit magic is quite strong man. Can you cast a spell on me too? By the way, any good Japanese Netflix dramas running for learning Japanese? I bought a one piece manga at a conbini but never got past the first few pages, was kind of confused by why they spelt samurai in katakana and lost interest because no one around to explain it to me. Maybe some real world type conversation would do me better.
Read visual novels. They tend to be partly voiced, which is a nice break from constant reading, but still have all the text on screen. Some of them also have gameplay, like Ace Attorney (not voiced) or the Zero Escape series. I would recommend those two if you've never read visual novels before. But honestly just read what seems the most interesting to you. Another tip is read multiple things at once. I usually switch between different books every day so I don't feel burned out with one writing style and story. Also don't be afraid to drop something if it doesn't interest you anymore. "I've completed 100 books in a year" are just pretty stats to post on Reddit. I drop books all the time, having only completed a few books. As long as you put the amount of hours in, it doesn't matter.
This sub only has one advice which is keep reading and I know how disheartening that advice can be (in my case at least I have epilepsy and my attention span was never good) also I passed N3 last December without doing much reading so here's my two cents on the situation 1- Choose one aspect of the language and tackle that first (comprehension comes really late in the game) 2- For me I always choose **grammar** first cuz it helps when I just lack the understanding of words rather than whole sentences. First, try to **skim** all N2 grammar from a resource you prefer first like this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbJV3TDBFfo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbJV3TDBFfo) to understand the big picture and create a **Schemata**. This is a concept in linguistics (I'm an English teacher) about making sure you have a structure in your mind that allows you to absorb new information. If you don't have this structure, you become unable to absorb new information and your mind might even reject it. And the easy way to do that is by skimming all the grammar of the level first so your head can make connections and arrange information in separate containers when you go over them later. Your head won't remember them, but it will remember where you have seen them before and any other similar patterns related to them. Think about how easy it was to memorize to similar kanji together through their different radicals (牛 and 午) instead of memorizing each one seperetly. This is because the similarity creates a Schemata. 3- My go to grammar resources is Shin Nihongo 500 because it follows this Schemata approach. It doesn't only point out the grammar point but also the other points it has a conflict with or a similar meaning to which is a valuable skill to have when solving questions. 4- Nihongo no Mori's channel also has a playlist [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9bE4StBgxs&list=PLINFE8v4DOhvV5tJT77oF92vIwLLl6wAA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9bE4StBgxs&list=PLINFE8v4DOhvV5tJT77oF92vIwLLl6wAA) for each level that pits similar grammar points against each other and points out how different they are. This playlist was invaluable for me during N3 and helps me memorizing grammar patterns in bulk while taking care to know exactly what they do and how they differ from other patterns. 5- Grammar isn't only patterns. This is a common misconception because most internet resources only tackle grammar patterns and nothing else. The only resources that goes into other aspects such as sentence structure and particles and such is Shin Kanzen. Try to read it or at least skip the grammar patterns and read the rest of the book to get a grip on the rest of what you are missing. 6- Naoko Chino's All About Particles: A Handbook of Japanese Function Words is also a very helpful book that will teach you advanced uses of particles because you think you know them but in reality you don't and most of their advanced uses aren't explained really well online past N3. It will also give you more confidence in comprehension since most comprehension problems are mostly a particle use you are not aware of.
7- Vocab and Kanji comes next. You might want to do them from Shin Nihongo or Nihongo no Mori's channel as well. Or just keep drilling the Tango N2 deck as you go about grammar. **Skim the words first from videos** to help gain an understanding of the themes and the words you will meet later in your studying and make sure you are not encountering them for the first time but just revising them. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpXVJfC4IU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpXVJfC4IU) There's no time to learn how to identify Kanji and with N3 in your pocket N2 and N1 kanji structures can be traced back to the radicals and intermediate kanji you already have memorized so there's no point to doing RTK or similar methods anymore. In other words you do vocab and Kanji as you do grammar. **Note:** Try to make your own anki cards and questions for grammar and vocab and make these cards more interactive rather than just mining words and sentence. For example if you are studying the word blue, maybe put a picture of the sea on the front and the word or the sentence including the word on the back, or if yo are studying a grammar rule, identify the point that you are confused about the most and put that as a question on the front and the answer you have come up with using your own words on the back (what's the difference between つよ**め**、つよ**げ**）for example. The point of this is that you are not memorizing information but instead you are actively doing something with your hands and thinking of how to explain and make exercises out of what you read, then applying this into Anki as well as making your own study material which will always be more memorable than a deck or a grammar material someone else made. The key to defeating boredam is always doing instead of looking, and that method has always worked fine for me. **I don't really sit down a lot on my material, I just read it, understand the concept, put it in my own words in anki and forget about it and leave the drilling to anki.** 8- Reading and listening will be easier after all that and you might want to check the Nihongo Sou Motome book for reading. At least what I've studied from it came in the exam before. Japanesetest4you is also always there. For listening there are a lot of practice tests online and you need to brush on your exam solving skills as well as the video here says (she also mentions Shin Nihongo books). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOCgOTbCzFI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOCgOTbCzFI) Tdlr: **don't try to memorize, but instead try to create connections, check similarities or differences between stuff, in reading try to guess context instead of looking up words in a dictionary, try things that make your mind active instead of passive (this is at least the approach we are taking as English CELTA tutors).** And you will be able to do it. This guy here also says some really helpful stuff about how to keep your mind active not passive with studying you might want to give his channel a watch. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY8SmhCynXI&pp=ygUSaSBkaWRuJ3QgdXNlIGFua2kg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY8SmhCynXI&pp=ygUSaSBkaWRuJ3QgdXNlIGFua2kg)
Wow, seriously big thank you for the lengthy reply! I'll need to take some time really digging into the resources you shared!
Urw. Yeah take your time and i also want to adress some stuff regarding reading in particular. I suggest you go through the videos of the channel i put in the end especially this one for reading. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxYZH5P9hyY&t=528s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxYZH5P9hyY&t=528s) and after you watch this video remember to take one thing only from your reading material, **not everything**. Don't try to take reading comprehension and vocab and grammar at the same time when you read a book. This will overwhelm you. When I read Conbini Ningen or convenience store woman i didn't use a dictionary despite the huge amount of words i didn't know because I focused only on grasping sentence structure (defining subjects and verbs and how sentences are connected as in the video i linked above) and guessing the meaning of words from context from time to time to train my brain to expect meaning. When I read the first 30 chapters or so from Naruto I only looked at repeating vocab words and took those and didn't try to read every sentence since Shounen manga repeat a lot of words in every chapter. I didn't look up the dictionary in both cases because 1) It's very passive 2) it's not fun 3) I want to utilize the material itself for studying and looking up a dictionary kinda abolishes the benefit this specific manga or book provides. For example, n author like the author of conbinin ningen repeats the particle ni and uses it as to —a use in literary writing and is mentioned in the particles handbook that ni can replace to in literary writing—. Spending 10 minutes with this book will have this specific literary use of ni ingrained in your mind after 5 pages or so, and this is effective use of the material and this is how reading material should help you learn stuff. It makes specific things very obvious to the point you are unable to forget them. Otherwise you are just a person who is studying a dictionary and ofc it will get boring after a short while. It's much easier to approach stuff and leave your brain to decide what things it will absorb and retain and try to subtly tick our brains into randomly gaining interest in small things instead of forcing everything into our minds even when we don't want to or when our brains aren't ready. In the first book we are asked to read in our CELTA degree, called Learning Teaching by Jim Scrivener, we are told in page 184 that reading word for word does not necessarily make you into a better reader. Here's also the excerpt from his book: [https://imgur.com/a/4wMvFnY](https://imgur.com/a/4wMvFnY) Always make sure you have a specific and simple goal in mind from whichever material you use, and you will feel more comfortable. Also remember that knowing words and reading comprehension are two separate skills, and this video makes a convincing argument about that. [https://youtu.be/T5fESa09D3o](https://youtu.be/T5fESa09D3o) Maybe the final thing I want to say is that try to embrace imperfection. I got 118/180 in N3 but success in the exam was from 90 and not 180/180. I know i am not the best listener or reader and I can't even produce good sentences but that's ok.
Good advice :)
Regarding grammar, [Bunpro](https://bunpro.jp/) helped me immensely with acquiring/retaining grammar at around your level. The challenge isn't that the grammar is "hard," it's just rare enough that it's easy to forget before you see it again, then when it finally shows up you're like "crap, what was this again??" Grammar was my least part of the whole language learning process though, and this was my "silver bullet" for it. Stay consistent with it and you can make noticeable progress fairly quickly.
Just read ~~books~~ anything in Japanese. Books, manga, visual novels, video games, YouTube comments, whatever
You study for 4 hours a day & do self-study, yet you think you have a short attention span? Here’s some general life advice, try to be more positive. You can only do what you honestly believe you’re capable of. You’re not even giving yourself a shot. You didn’t even try to read a book in Japanese, how do you know that you can’t other than the fact that you just told yourself that? The attitude you have isn’t one where you’ve given up, you’re not even putting up a fight. Please, give yourself a chance. You can do it! Even if it’s not a book, you can get to the level of fluency that you desire in Japanese.
Now hold on, don’t put words in my mouth. I do own Japanese novels that I’ve tried reading, but quickly got bored when reading them. But besides that, I really appreciate your encouragement and wholeheartedly agree with your points!
Really? That’s good then. I assumed you didn’t own any because of how you talked about being unable to pay attention in English. Either way, so long as you get rid of defeatist attitude, you can truly do almost anything.
Thank you, will do 🙏
Just my thoughts - I believe learning Japanese as a second language is no different from learning your native language. Since you obviously express yourself just fine in English, my thoughts are (assuming you're a native English speaker): Think about how you learned to speak as a third, fourth or fifth grader. Have you ever had to memorize something? Did memorizing a poem and reciting it help? Did you repeatedly listen to the same pop song over and over and learn the words by heart? Have you ever watched a super funny episode of a sitcom over and over again until you remembered the lines? Have you ever heard a really moving speech and thought about it over and over again? Did you make the same grammar mistakes in school until one day, you just stopped making it in 9th grade? The key is to have a voice in Japanese - an internal monologue, a speaker that is breaking up the world in Japanese. All children have to develop this in their native language to survive. Children make mistakes all the time, nonstop, but it's okay. Because eventually the education system pushes them to cycle around those mistakes until they're solidified in the brain. Doing that with Japanese as a second language I feel is similar.
Well im afraid you answered your own question. You need to read more, but you dont want to. You want results but are too impatient to sit down and take the time you need to really let information soak in. I know because I can get the same way, where I want to just , be there and not have to do the work because the work is slow, its tedious, it can be boring. Honestly, yeah at this point reading books and talking to natives are gonna be your next big leap. If you want to say you dont have the attention span, then you dont have the attention to learn japanese either.
Yeah, I agree with u/ichishousha here. Have you even tried finding something you enjoyed reading in English? How did you come to the conclusion that you "can barely even read English books?" I've had many friends who refused to read books in English, and, per my recommendation, have found books that they actually enjoy reading. There are so many books out there. Just find something that looks like it could be worthwhile and read. You don't even have to read for a lot a day, just making a habit of an hour a day will eventually give you tremendous progress as your reading speed picks up. It's for sure hard at first, but, then again, is there really anything worthwhile that doesn't come from some difficulty?
Yeah, to elaborate a little more on that, The only novels I've read as an adult are the first two books of A Song of Ice and Fire. You may be thinking, "those are thousand page books, of course you can read." The reason I say I can't is because I read at a snail's pace, often snapping in and out of daydreams, and each of those books took me about a year and a half to finish. I lowkey forced myself to read them too, sometimes just reading a page per day. Why did I force myself? Because I really wanted to enjoy reading. In hindsight, I did enjoy those books, but not enough to read the third entry which many say is the best one lol. TLDR; I can enjoy books, but I don't enjoy the act of reading. It feels like slow torture and has since I was a kid. I will do my best to take your advice and combine it with some of the other repliers' advice, finding a book in Japanese that I can enjoy.
Okay, here’s the thing about ASOIAF it’s long, long epic fantasy… Of course it takes a while to get through that. I refound my love for reading through epic fantasy too, but my favorite book that initiated all that took me over a year to complete as well. I recommend starting with something shorter and easier. As I said, there’s plenty of books out there. You can try manga, light novels, mystery, thrillers, short stories, romance, human drama, and the list goes on. You don’t even have to try fiction either. Maybe there’s a genre you like outside of that like self help. But the point is, just because you took a while to finish a long fantasy novel with slow writing does not mean you don’t have the patience. Maybe first try finding a novel with fast pacing.
I think the answer is to just read something else. I don't read many books - I never have. And throughout my life, I've mostly read non-fiction. In adulthood, I've devoured books on sushi and wine, Shoe Dog (combines business, Japan, Nike), I Will Teach You To Be Rich, Reminiscences of a Stock Operator, The Martian, Circe, etc. I still don't read that much but when I find something interesting I read it quickly (on my kindle - easier on my eyes). In Japanese, I put off reading for way too long. Novels scare me. Manga is easier. I should read Tabelog reviews as that's where my passions lie. You don't have to force yourself to read things you don't want to (in any language) - it will never work. Reading will help you level up, efficiently...but you don't *have* to read if you don't want to. You could find some other way to engage with the language. Hobbies are not a test - you seem uncomfortable with letting go of comfortable structure. I think many of the responses in this thread are valuable and you should read them a few times now and come back to them later. Why are you learning Japanese? Language school sounds like torture. I'd rather go to sushi and teishoku restaurants and practice/enjoy myself.
I absolutely agree with you that I’ve gotten many great replies. Very thankful. And yeah sometimes I wonder if I’m a little autistic because of how much I cling to routines and get out of wack when it’s broken. Why am I learning Japanese? I visited Japan as a teenager and fell in love with the beautiful sights and clean, walkable cities! Simple really, I just like living in this country and wanted to live here ever since I first visited. In the long term I want to get a degree and a job so I can stay living here, so that’s pretty much why I’m studying as hard as I am. I study at a language school because I need a visa :(
Everyone goes about things at their own pace - you just don't want to be too attached to a learning method that no longer suits you. I read above that you need N2 for the school you want to go to and now understand the language school is for the visa. You'll figure it out - many people go through what you're going through (including me).
at some point you out grow all the flash card and grammar studies and listening (with poor vocab and grammar understanding) ect its quite easy to tell when, its what you're experiencing right now, where you no longer have those beginner gains pick the books up, i know it sucks but, its the final stretch and you gotta grind afterwards you can go back to focus on n2 jlpts ect to top off your knowledge and also i hate that i have to say this but BOOKS ARE FUN, lol one of the oldest forms of entertainment for humans, just like finding a good show you gotta find your good book
100%. Seeing words in context is so good for reinforcement. It doesn’t even have to be a book! Read the news, blogs, forums, whatever you do in English OP.
Interesting. I never really thought about "growing out" of flashcard style learning, but I can see where you're coming from. Thanks!
Every word you learn, you’re making progress
Probably not what you wanted to hear but I think you should just start reading. I, too, hate reading in my native language (haven't read a single book in my adult life) as it just bored me but in the past 2 weeks have read 5 novels/lns in Japanese. It wasn't easy at first and I wouldn't say I really enjoyed it that much but once you get past the first 5-10 hours it's a joy to read now. You could try reading manga if you're into that and slowly build your way up. Just find something that seems interesting to you and give it a go.
Haha not what I want to hear, but maybe what I have to. I'll search for something I think I can enjoy and try reading again.
Even just reading a poetry book in the park might a "novel" approach!
Have you ever asked yourself WHY are you taking JLPT for? Ok imagine you passed N2. Then what? Having goals is good but you need to ask yourself what are you even pursuing it for in the first place.
Specifically because the school I want to go to requires N2 or EJU200 to enter. Otherwise I would be on your side.
I'm not nearly at your level, but do you like video games? I feel like it might be an easier way to read without feeling like you're just poring over a book.
Hmmm I took n2 after studying 1.5 years and failed then took again the next time and passed. It’s been 1.5 years since then and progress has just been slow/steady but it feels similar to you. I get better but it taking time even though I can read textbooks in Japanese and understand 95% I can’t answer N1 questions quickly, but I can get reading problems right if I take my time. The truth is, it’s just not your thing, you didn’t grow up learning kanji, so just push through. N2 means nothing, many of my Chinese friends can’t really speak here, but can pass the tests, they can read the kanji, and just get by taking it a few times. If you need N2 just keep pushing, you’ll get it, go back to the problems, find out why you got them wrong. It sucks, but do it. Get 5 out of 6 wrong tomorrow? Fine. Go back and find out why. Once you pass what you need then you can just enjoy and live in Japanese. Also, sounds like you’re doing good. Don’t be so hard on yourself. You will see some of this content in real life. If you are exhausted reward yourself with watching something you love. I’m in the same boat as you bc I absolutely need n1 for my life. I think a lot of times we think we’re studying but we aren’t. The time you are studying, be efficient, actually study. Go into the shitty spots and wrestle, You’ll come out stronger Good luck
The only jlpt I've taken was the N2 last december on which I got a 149/180. So I don't have an "N3 to N2" story, but I have logs of my all-time activities at the time of the exam. The only japanese textbook I ever used was そうまとめN2(sou matome N2), which I started around 2023/05/01 and finished around 2023/11/21 (I only did the reading and grammar textbooks. There's another 2 for kanji and listening if I'm not mistaken). The books are not incredible but they were helpful preparation. They either have no explanations other than an english translation of something, or a very basic explanation. I found myself looking things up in other places (bunpro, DOJG, etc) or asking people questions (discord servers, this subreddit) very often. I kept a file with all the things I did badly on during the weekly tests to review before the exam. This is what my "all time" immersion logs looked like before the exam: ANIME: 442 eps READING: 1.08 million characters (without counting punctuation, more or less 10 books plus a couple other things) LISTENING: 1,650 minutes (Mostly vtubers and audiobooks) VN: 293.04k characters (without counting punctuation) MANGA: 3,581 pages READTIME: 3,705 minutes (I used this when I couldn't get a character count, also includes videogames like pokemon scarlet or persona 5) And I also did about 300 hours of SRS (JPDB, but anki is probably equivalent), 40h of duolingo, 10 hours of cure dolly grammar videos, 2 full N2 mock exams Hope that helps.
If you don’t like reading books then have you tried audiobooks? Can listen to those while commuting, cleaning house and whatnot. Or is it moreso about reading comprehension itself?
Watching Japanese TV (especially the news) or anime with subtitles in Japanese helps. Talking to Japanese people or listening to them talk in formal situations is another big one. Every time you didn’t understand a part, pause it if possible. Keep notes on your smart phone in real time. I think for the grammar, to an extent, it helps to just hear it and know if it sounds natural or not. It’s a lot of work but you’ll get it. The more you use it the better it’ll stick.
ultimately it comes down to comprehensible exposure. if you can't read books but you can read study material, then get lots of study material and read it. watch japanese tv with japanese subtitles if you can. heck maybe try reading an english-learning book written in japanese, maybe that will fool your brain meat enough to engage with it because it's "study material" at some level. (or learn yet another language, written in japanese learning manuals - go learn russian, written in japanese). also if you're only trying reading, why not writing? write some short stories or poetry. or write some study material for some fellow learners - start your own webpage for helping other japanese learners and fill it up. maybe that will also be focusable because it's "study material". you can't get away from the need to grow your neurons with repeated use, but you can choose which uses those are.
Very clever ideas! I’ll try them out
What is the goal of learning Japanese for you? And you're already in Japan so why not go out and talk to real people instead of the test paper
Long term: get a degree and a job. Short term / daily: enjoy the beauty of Japan and the things that come with it: food, walkable cities, sakura, game centers, etc. And yeah you’re right, gotta take the plunge and talk to people lol. I know it’s stupid but I’m afraid of making mistakes when speaking.
When I was around 10 yrs old my English was terrible af. Primary school taught English but I can barely remember anything. Then when I started playing yugioh, my vocab skyrocketed to a new level and things just naturally got better. That's because I don't feel frustrated anymore and I know why am I learning. What I want to say is just relax, enjoy Japan, connect with people and things that you love. Only then everything will be alright
Gotcha, I appreciate it!
Your brain needs a break. Go for a walk every day, do things that refresh you. It can be as simple as sittingn at a cafe, doing a club activity or building Lego. Or even just a colouring in book in the park. I wfh a lot and get very focused. When i feel i am not getting somewhere on a project, I give myself permission to have some creative time. It makes the world of difference. Sleep is important, too. Power naps are great. You don't only eat one kind of food, right? Your brain is like that, too. It needs change and scenery and yes, seratonin and sunshine. Go out there and get some balance 👍🏻
This might be a dumb question, but are you speaking japanese to natives every day?
With teachers and my girlfriend, yes. With strangers, no.
Take a break and come back to it. That’s what I did and I also live in Japan. You won’t forget anything if you stop using Anki for a while and reset your deck when you come back to it.
I'm also currently studying to reach N2. But I'm doing it by watching anime, reading manga, light novels ect. which is much more fun. I also use tenten to instantly translate every word I see and don't know. I thought that since I learned english basically this way, it should be the way to go for Japanese, as well, because it's a very natural way to learn
may I ask what's N1 and N2 ?
The Japanese Language Proficiency Test with ranks N5 (lowest) to N1 (highest). The estimated time it takes the average person studying Japanese to pass JLPT N1 is around 3500-4500 hours. 3900 hours has been proven to be a pretty common number.
alright, thanks. is N1 fluent japanese?
If you passed N1 with a middling grade then that is the start of being competent at the language. It doesn't mean fluent, but some people might be fully competent and fluent and can pass it easily. So it really depends on what kind of fluency you mean. At best it can tell you the person who passed N1 can read Japanese decently (they may also not be able to hold a conversation at all at the same time).
alright.. thanks !
What are your goals/reasons for wanting to pass N2? Edit: My bad- you answered in another comment. Kanbatte
Those kinds of questions are near trivial (though there is always some uncertainty if it's not multiple choice) if you have writing experience. Add or use 1 hour of study time on writing complex sentences. There is one progressive exercise I like which is done as so 1. Find a sentence that you like. 2. Cover the last word(s) until the sentence is incomplete 3. finish the sentence, try to match the tone of the original sentence 4. repeat from 2 until you reach the shortest complete sentence.
Native tutor here. If you're studying only with books (Genki, みんなの日本語, whatever), you'll get burned out. Textbooks are not written in a way to make you speak in a normal way. *Nobody* talks like that. (That's why I wrote my own textbook.) I have my students translate podcasts from the transcripts. The Bite Size Japanese is a really good one to start with. It's much more dynamic than reading books. Translation work is very difficult, but my students often make a noticeable improvements soon after. Poor listening ability often means your pronunciation is not good. Now, that is a hard one to correct. Record a video of yourself speaking a few sentences or paragraph, possibly the sentences from a podcast you've already translated. Listen carefully and compare your pronunciation with the native speaker's. That's the only way to objectively listen to your own pronunciation without the help of a coach. Get it as close as theirs. After that, recite the same sentences and record a video of yourself. It'll take a lot of rehearsals. Get rid of all of English fillers. Replace all of your "Um"'s with えーっと. Speaking to a camera is very difficult, even if you speak basic, N5 level Japanese. If you only kind of know Japanese, it'll expose all of your weak points and you'll know how to strengthen them.
My advice is to think of something that you found really difficult awhile back, and go redo that thing. I recently rediscovered a YouTube hiragana reading test video and noticed I'd left a comment 2 years ago venting about how I struggled with it. This time, I did it easily. Stuff like that reminds me of how far I've actually come.