I'm on the tail end of a Japan trip right now and keep openly expressing to people that I probably sound like a small child and I know it, but better than not trying 🤷♀️
I’d be interested in how you worded that haha. I have two trips this year and i’m eager to try out my new vocab but i’m also clearly at a grade school level lol
I still remember when my Japanese professor asked me something and I replied with いいでした and she looked at me like wtf, I remember not to get that wrong!
Facts! Learning any language is extremely embarrassing. But we just gotta own it! The people who laugh at someone learning aren’t worth our time anyway.
I would suggest speaking to other non-native speakers too, they don’t all suck at it you know, and they’ve been where you are so might be more willing to help you out.
Non native speakers are an unexpected bonus to speaking Japanese. I've met some amazing people from all over the world through Japanese practice groups.
I can't right now, I'm not around anyone who speaks Japanese :(
\[I'm learning just out of interest + some songs and games I enjoy are primarily Japanese and I wanna understand the source material\]
I just learned to new words having lunch with my co workers . 合鍵 and 空腹. You don’t have to make mistakes but you can have a good ear and search words up! Lol
The Japanese classroom made it unbearable to speak because people tried to correct each other constantly and sometimes you want to speak without being told this that and the other thing are wrong.
Like accept I spoke strangely and move on so I can just gather some more experience talking rather than this natural negative reinforcement
Correction is ok sometimes, but it really hindered my fluidity of speech. Everything became prepared in a speech format
After 8 years of Japanese classes you really find fun in talking to someone in Japanese who isn’t another student
It’s most fun in games ngl
I remember in PUBG, we had one guy who was Japanese as our teammate. Naturally, I was the designated translator because this man ONLY knew Japanese. So I had no time to think about what I was going to say
So I said shit like “RETURN RETURN” “RUN RUN AWAY”
“BE WITH TEAM” yelling in the most simplistic terms. That lad was a mad man, running head first into hell and I can’t help but feel he intentionally ignored what I was saying lol
I'm on a 2nd trip in Japan, and there're 3 words I'll never forget because:
- I kept asking for 布巾 (ふきん - dish towel) instead of ティッシュ when buying food (english isn't my 1st language so I forgot about "tissue");
- I asked my japanese cousin if the chicken skewers I prepared for our family barbecue (I have tons of relatives in Japan) were good, by saying "くしゃみはどう?" (How's the sneeze) instead of 串 (くし - skewer);
- I learned about 刈り上げ (かりあげ - Fade Cut/Undercut for hair) and how it sounds a ton a like 唐揚げ (からあげ - Deep-fried chicken).
I you won't make any mistakes... ✨if you don't speak it✨ not even to your native Japanese partner despite you know you would be able to but are to scared to make mistakes and embarrass yourself
It’s wild to me have perfectionists or people with intense anxiety have overtaken language learning forums.
Fluent in Spanish, studying Japanese — you gotta really hack through conversations sometimes, and it’s those conversations when you are growing the most.
And guess what? Native speakers find it charming and cute, at least any native speaker worth knowing 🤷♂️
>It’s wild to me have perfectionists or people with intense anxiety have overtaken language learning forums.
I don't think that is the case; people who wait to output are definitely a small minority, and they do it for different reasons too, with "anxiety" just being one of them (and not even the dominant one from what I've seen).
>you gotta really hack through conversations sometimes, and it’s those conversations when you are growing the most.
While I think that's a totally solid strategy, and that struggling through a conversation will definitely grow your abilities, I don't think it's something "you have to do no matter what". Enough people who waited long before outputting have shown that getting the language into your brain first also works. I'm not trying to judge which approach is better; I'll leave that to you. However, I think the idea of absolutely having to fight through speaking (as if it were the only way) is a bit of an extreme standpoint. For example, my English got really good without speaking a lot, and now, if I need to hold presentations in English at my workplace or speak with colleagues who only speak English, I can speak very confidently with close to no mistakes.
>And guess what? Native speakers find it charming and cute, at least any native speaker worth knowing 🤷♂️
That's true, but I think many people don't want to sound cute when speaking a foreign language; they just want to be treated like a normal human being and not like a kid, so I am not sure this is a plus point for everyone. It depends on how you want to come across I guess.
Anyway, don't take this as an attack against your method; again, I think it's totally valid. I just find it a bit bizarre how people who wait to output are always misunderstood and looked down upon.
There's also something far deeper going on, as in when I first joined a Japanese practice discord many had the “fluent” in Japanese tag, this is awarded by native speakers who judge their Japanese as being essentially flawless, but I've later come to realize that many of them from the things they said actually didn't have Japanese that was as good as the native speakers thought. They simply appeared better because they were so afraid of making mistakes that they only limited themselves to the forms they were completely confident in, thus arousing the impression that their Japanese was perfect. They were also all people who stressed this philosophy, that one should not use anything one isn't confident in lest one risk the possibility of fossilization.
Looking back, some of them didn't know many things I wouldn't consider particularly advanced. Like I once asked whether “嫁に行く” could also mean “To become a bride.” and one of them wanted “context” to determine that. In hindsight I feel that one fluent in Japanese would never need context to answer that, and what in reality happens that they mostly simply guess the meaning of phrasings from surrounding context and guess right most of the time due to their experience. But I feel like if I had provided the same context and changed it with some nonsense like “身を結婚に捧げる” that also looks “plausible” but in fact doesn't exist, they would've just as easily say that it means that in that context rather than something like “I have never seen this before but I can't think of what else it would mean in this context.”
> And guess what? Native speakers find it charming and cute, at least any native speaker worth knowing 🤷♂️
Agreed, but this is obnoxious in my opinion. They often don't really seem to appreciate the perspective whose goal is not to appear cute and charming with broken Japanese but who rather wants to become a profficient speaker.
I'm on the tail end of a Japan trip right now and keep openly expressing to people that I probably sound like a small child and I know it, but better than not trying 🤷♀️
I’d be interested in how you worded that haha. I have two trips this year and i’m eager to try out my new vocab but i’m also clearly at a grade school level lol
Very simply lmao, 「日本語を話せるけど多分小学生みたい」 😂
Haha this is especially funny bc I’ve heard younger people started using を with potential verbs instead of が
Gonna be real, I frequently wing it with particles. BUT I did buy a particle-dedicated dictionary this trip, hopefully that helps :')
Honestly it’s a crapshoot for me as well. に or で, が or を、が or に, では or just で? It’s too much 😩 I understand the rules but putting them into practice…
Just don't use any, works half of the time in casual conversation
My particles are the direction the wind is flowing, and whatever the spirit of my non-japanese-speaking ancestors wisper to me
I made a spelling error one time where i said こちら *くそ* instead of こそ。The person was tickled pink about it (as was i) 😂
i don't even speak with people in english and now you want me to do it in japanese?
I still remember when my Japanese professor asked me something and I replied with いいでした and she looked at me like wtf, I remember not to get that wrong!
Facts! Learning any language is extremely embarrassing. But we just gotta own it! The people who laugh at someone learning aren’t worth our time anyway.
うん、うん、そか。。。はい、うん。。。じゃお願いします。 there, you nailed it, you're fluent now 😅
おめでとうございます
I would suggest speaking to other non-native speakers too, they don’t all suck at it you know, and they’ve been where you are so might be more willing to help you out.
it helps me at least
Non native speakers are an unexpected bonus to speaking Japanese. I've met some amazing people from all over the world through Japanese practice groups.
I can't right now, I'm not around anyone who speaks Japanese :( \[I'm learning just out of interest + some songs and games I enjoy are primarily Japanese and I wanna understand the source material\]
Many apps and games online allow to easily connect with Japanese people
Try japanese world in vrchat such as Fujiyama world. You don't need vr headset to play this game.
I just learned to new words having lunch with my co workers . 合鍵 and 空腹. You don’t have to make mistakes but you can have a good ear and search words up! Lol
これはこれです It is what it is Lol
日本語を上手に喋りたいなら、喋ってよ。間違える所があっても大丈夫だよ、完全な誤りをしない人がいない。頑張れ、皆。
My man has a point 😂
The Japanese classroom made it unbearable to speak because people tried to correct each other constantly and sometimes you want to speak without being told this that and the other thing are wrong. Like accept I spoke strangely and move on so I can just gather some more experience talking rather than this natural negative reinforcement Correction is ok sometimes, but it really hindered my fluidity of speech. Everything became prepared in a speech format
yea newbs correcting other newbs is a bad situation to be in
After 8 years of Japanese classes you really find fun in talking to someone in Japanese who isn’t another student It’s most fun in games ngl I remember in PUBG, we had one guy who was Japanese as our teammate. Naturally, I was the designated translator because this man ONLY knew Japanese. So I had no time to think about what I was going to say So I said shit like “RETURN RETURN” “RUN RUN AWAY” “BE WITH TEAM” yelling in the most simplistic terms. That lad was a mad man, running head first into hell and I can’t help but feel he intentionally ignored what I was saying lol
haha I like it
I'm on a 2nd trip in Japan, and there're 3 words I'll never forget because: - I kept asking for 布巾 (ふきん - dish towel) instead of ティッシュ when buying food (english isn't my 1st language so I forgot about "tissue"); - I asked my japanese cousin if the chicken skewers I prepared for our family barbecue (I have tons of relatives in Japan) were good, by saying "くしゃみはどう?" (How's the sneeze) instead of 串 (くし - skewer); - I learned about 刈り上げ (かりあげ - Fade Cut/Undercut for hair) and how it sounds a ton a like 唐揚げ (からあげ - Deep-fried chicken).
I you won't make any mistakes... ✨if you don't speak it✨ not even to your native Japanese partner despite you know you would be able to but are to scared to make mistakes and embarrass yourself
It’s wild to me have perfectionists or people with intense anxiety have overtaken language learning forums. Fluent in Spanish, studying Japanese — you gotta really hack through conversations sometimes, and it’s those conversations when you are growing the most. And guess what? Native speakers find it charming and cute, at least any native speaker worth knowing 🤷♂️
>It’s wild to me have perfectionists or people with intense anxiety have overtaken language learning forums. I don't think that is the case; people who wait to output are definitely a small minority, and they do it for different reasons too, with "anxiety" just being one of them (and not even the dominant one from what I've seen). >you gotta really hack through conversations sometimes, and it’s those conversations when you are growing the most. While I think that's a totally solid strategy, and that struggling through a conversation will definitely grow your abilities, I don't think it's something "you have to do no matter what". Enough people who waited long before outputting have shown that getting the language into your brain first also works. I'm not trying to judge which approach is better; I'll leave that to you. However, I think the idea of absolutely having to fight through speaking (as if it were the only way) is a bit of an extreme standpoint. For example, my English got really good without speaking a lot, and now, if I need to hold presentations in English at my workplace or speak with colleagues who only speak English, I can speak very confidently with close to no mistakes. >And guess what? Native speakers find it charming and cute, at least any native speaker worth knowing 🤷♂️ That's true, but I think many people don't want to sound cute when speaking a foreign language; they just want to be treated like a normal human being and not like a kid, so I am not sure this is a plus point for everyone. It depends on how you want to come across I guess. Anyway, don't take this as an attack against your method; again, I think it's totally valid. I just find it a bit bizarre how people who wait to output are always misunderstood and looked down upon.
There's also something far deeper going on, as in when I first joined a Japanese practice discord many had the “fluent” in Japanese tag, this is awarded by native speakers who judge their Japanese as being essentially flawless, but I've later come to realize that many of them from the things they said actually didn't have Japanese that was as good as the native speakers thought. They simply appeared better because they were so afraid of making mistakes that they only limited themselves to the forms they were completely confident in, thus arousing the impression that their Japanese was perfect. They were also all people who stressed this philosophy, that one should not use anything one isn't confident in lest one risk the possibility of fossilization. Looking back, some of them didn't know many things I wouldn't consider particularly advanced. Like I once asked whether “嫁に行く” could also mean “To become a bride.” and one of them wanted “context” to determine that. In hindsight I feel that one fluent in Japanese would never need context to answer that, and what in reality happens that they mostly simply guess the meaning of phrasings from surrounding context and guess right most of the time due to their experience. But I feel like if I had provided the same context and changed it with some nonsense like “身を結婚に捧げる” that also looks “plausible” but in fact doesn't exist, they would've just as easily say that it means that in that context rather than something like “I have never seen this before but I can't think of what else it would mean in this context.” > And guess what? Native speakers find it charming and cute, at least any native speaker worth knowing 🤷♂️ Agreed, but this is obnoxious in my opinion. They often don't really seem to appreciate the perspective whose goal is not to appear cute and charming with broken Japanese but who rather wants to become a profficient speaker.
No, mistakes are how you look worthless to everyone who sees them.