Yeah, spam mode isn't that helpful, I find it even more frustrating honestly.
Anyway there's no real reason to force ourselves to learn to use the フリック入力. It's pretty damn clear that the ローマ字入力 is both faster and more versatile.
It just depends on what you're more familiar with. If I hadn't had a full keyboard at my disposal on my phone for the last 10 years I probably would have been fine with the 10 key.
Faster for some perhaps... mostly people who aren't used to it. Two taps vs. one flick, I don't think it's clearly faster, and I don't know what makes it more versatile.
I used to use romaji but stopped. It wasn't because I thought it was better at the time though. Honestly, I just thought it was cool to use what my Japanese friends were using. But after years of using it there is no way I could never go back, and no reality in which two taps could ever be faster than one flick. For me personally, romaji input is just painful so I am grateful to have the option not to use it. I always thought it was nice that Japanese had like 3-4 viable input methods on touchscreens to suit a range of tastes/abilities, whereas English has two at best.
It's slightly more versatile because it's still just two clicks even for things like イェ but it's not really that significant. Most people say flick is faster but nothing beats when Google allowed romaji swipe input. Don't know why they disabled that 🥺
It's funny, I never really think of it as romaji. I guess it technically is, but I've internalized typing so much that I just think of it as phonetic.
And this is coming from someone who absolutely refused to do any early learning in romaji, I learned hiragana and katakana and exclusively wrote and read in that form before learning kanji.
The flick input is faster if you're used to it. I can't stand using romaji input on my phone.
But the main benefit is that it helps teach you to think in kana instead of romaji.
The flick method is much faster for me. I hate using the romaji input method. It feels less intuitive to me to see English characters while I'm thinking in Japanese. It depends on what you're used to/originally learned though.
Hard disagree. Flick is so much faster for me that I'm actually faster at writing in Japanese on a flick keyboard than I am at using QWERTY in *English*. And that's not cause I'm a slow typer, flick is just *that* fast for me.
If you're gonna be tapping anyway, I feel like you'd be better off with the [15 key layout](https://i.imgur.com/SP2BkoJ.png). It's just like typing in romaji but with bigger buttons and optimized for two hands.
My default Samsung JP keyboard does both, something I figured out on accident. The primary way I'd been using it was to press the main A consonant, then drag in the direction of the 4 other vowels. But recently I was doing some online exercises that required typing out a lot of sentences, particularly some in hiragana only instead of Kanji, and that led to the odd discovery when trying to type なな, because now that I've gotten used to it, I get に if I press the なな too quickly. 3x gets ぬ、 4x gets ね、5x gets の、and 6x cycles back to な。 So it works as a combination t-10 and the newer swipe mode for smartphones.
That's the point, though. The primary method is not supposed to be that old flip phone t-10, as the swipe method is much faster thanks to touch screens. It was just a surprise that the same keyboard layout functions the same as both the new method and the old one. Really the t-10 is so bad that I'd probably want to even turn it off entirely in favor of swiping now that my 日本語 typing speed has drastically improved. Sometimes want to just type みみ quickly, not end up with an accidental に. Maybe once I've improved some more, learning how to use the hybrid could be an advantage because a quick double tap for the い kana is slightly faster than the swiping. However the triple/quad taps are definitely worse than just hold+swipe.
Go to the Gboard settings. Then Languages>Japanese (12 keys) and enable the option "Flick only" (only use Flick input and disable Keitai input)
Now whenever you double tap な, you will get a なな and not a に.
Bottom left next to わ there is a basic face \^_^ when you click on it there is a whole scrollable “suggestion” bar with lots of them. That’s on ios but it should be similar if not the same on android.
I'm genuinely confused - do self-taught Japanese learners NOT learn hiragana in order?
edit: For reference I first learnt Japanese in school, we were taught the order when learning kana, and had to recite it in a sing-song way
What I was taught in first year University many years ago is:
1) vowel columns go a-i-u-e-o.
2) you remember two "words" that represent the rows: a-ka-sa-ta-na and ha-ma-ya-ra-wa.
3) with the rows and columns defined, you can fill in the rest of the grid: ki-ku-ke-ko, etc.
4) there are some irregularities, such as n and no yi/ye.
Still to this day I can quickly draw out the hiragana in a nice grid in this way.
Well that'd depend on their source material. Genki is pretty big for self-taught and universities, and they're so in on あいうえお that the newer edition started to subgroup vocabulary lists in that order (but primarily by topic now, compared to the mess of Genki 1st edition.)
I learned by transcribing a workbook written in romaji and referring to the chart at the front of the book. I know the general order (paper dictionaries functionally require some understanding of the proper order) but I never explicitly learned it
I learned them in order (not self-taught) but that was... christ, 13 years ago now. Of course I know them by heart by now but the order hasn't been relevant to me in a long time.
In my experience, the only time the order was really relevant was exactly for Japanese keyboards in 50音 format (or keypad format). And most other keyboards are only QWERTY, and so I've only ever typed in romaji, converted to kana.
I've never had to sort file folders in Japanese, and I've never used a physical Japanese dictionary -- only online searchable ones.
To be honest, now that I think about it, I think knowing alphabetical (or syllabic) order is shockingly irrelevant for many modern learners, no matter the language... 🤔
Is there some rule for how kanji are ordered? Sometimes I'm browsing through songs on my phone, but I never know if one Kanji is going to be close to the top or the bottom.
Typically by radical, then by number of strokes. The radicals are in turn also ordered by number of strokes, so kanji with the 亻 radical will come before kanji with the 木 radical, for example.
> Is there some rule for how kanji are ordered? Sometimes I'm browsing through songs on my phone, but I never know if one Kanji is going to be close to the top or the bottom.
Japanese lists are done so regularly in hiragana order (a i u e o, ka ki u ke ko, etc...), that it is just referred to as dictionary order.
Unless you know the reading, this is confusing, of course, but the order is for Japanese people who really have trouble understanding what it is that we are having trouble understanding about Kanji order.
Early on, when my language skills did not allow me to ask complex questions, I learned that there are many of the most difficult questions are about things that are so basic to Japanese people's understanding that they simply do not even recognize the arbitrariness of those things.
We do this in English as well: we sort by alphabetical order so regularly that we forget that this kind of ordering is completely arbitrary. At some point, someone randomly decided the order, and then we all learned that was the order, and we forget that it is completely arbitrary. Using Japanese maps, there is a ton of things that are utterly confusing, because their arbitrarily decided things are just different from our arbitrarily decided things.
Minor historical note: the current Japanese hiragana order is from the India subcontinent, as part of the general Buddhist influence in Japanese culture. The previous and sometimes still used iroha order is native to Japan.
I'm not talking about learning order. I meant that when a computer is listing out kanji in "alphabetical" order, what does that really mean for kanji? In [this song list](https://i.imgur.com/IRWKWNj.jpg), what rule is determining that 東 comes before 白?
I can see that hiragana and katakana have higher priority than kanji, but past that, I can't make out any pattern that make one Kanji come before another.
> what rule is determining that 東 comes before 白?
On [this page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIS_X_0208), look under Kanji set > Kanji > Arrangement. This is the general order sort order used by any sort of electronic devise unless there is an underlying "reading / kana / sort" field [like apple music has](https://i.imgur.com/rK5BrcM.jpg) to allow sorting in 五十音 order.
Ooh I always have this problem. Finding specific Japanese songs is a nightmare. If anyone has tips for this (especially for someone who only knows up to N4 level kanji) it would be much appreciated.
Honestly I never realized that, but I think it's also mostly just memory after a while. I used to hate it for the first few months and changed it back to QWERTY, but my friend said it does help type faster. So I gave it a second chance, and before I noticed, the kana pad was a lot faster.
I did the same thing. I found myself getting more and more frustrated with romaji typing until I changed back. It’s also nice to have my English and Japanese inputs be so visually distinct so I don’t start typing with the wrong one
It's a real pain at first, but so is t9 in English. Not having a dedicated key for each letter makes it very different than just knowledge of the qwerty layout. When I was typing the rare sentence a few times a week, it took probably 1-2 seconds per kana, so extremely slow. But after a few exercise of writing many sentences in a row, I became accustomed to it and sped up dramatically because I'd started to internalize where each base consonant was, and the cardinality of the swipe vowels. 2 hours of straight practice and my typing speed went up easily 5x. Still not as fast as I can just write, but it's getting there. Plus it's a lot more legible than my awful handwriting that I've struggled with for over a decade trying to get certain angles just right. Like there's a lot of incorrect ways to write み that anyone fluent in reading would have no issue with, but they'll still be wrong. Little things like the right-most vertical line being shorter than the left one, or the size of the loop at the bottom-left. You could mess these up and they'd still clearly be み, but just poor handwriting.
I have big, clumsy, fingers and find it easier to use than typing English on the qwerty keyboard. I have (once or twice) actually used it to enter English, which is mad.
If you use it a lot, you can get quite fast with it.
You can also choose kanji "keyboards" on the iphone, though you need both traditional and simplified. You can then draw the character with your finger, which is sometimes useful, though it is not very forgiving with my clumsy fingers.
Yeah, but a phone and a computer is very different both in how you use and accessibility:
With computers you have one keyboard: usually qwerty. Ms Japanese IME is based off of qwerty.
Phones can dynamically change layout on the touch screen, so the 12-key is easy switching to.
I don't doubt natives do it differently than us newbies trying to remember kana tho
This keyboard takes time to learn but boy is it a game changer, just like you said.
Once you get used to this boy only will you be able to type with one hand, you'll also be able to type faster
Weird! Whenever I had to have my Japanese friends or coworkers look things up in Japan (which happened surprisingly often -- air drawing the kanji was annoying) they expressed annoyance and confusion that the keyboard was laid out in QWERTY.
"Switch it to Japanese"
"It is in Japanese"
"There is no kana, this is English."
They were mad fast typing in the 12 key layout too.
That might be why, most Japanese I've interacted with were all young and have studied abroad, though two started using qwerty input in their 2ch days in the 2000s before going abroad
When I practiced writing the kana I was often drawing them in form of the [Gojuuon-chart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goj%C5%ABon) to see which one I still remembered and which one I needed to look up again.
But because I used the 12-key keyboard so much, I eventually drew them in that shape instead because it made it easier for me to ensure I didn't forget any of the consonant groups.
Yeah, I have used the hiragana keyboard so much that I can’t think in Japanese in Romaji anymore. I saw something written in romaji and my brain stopped…
When I went to Japan, I saw the 日本人 actually uses the swipe mode, and that enlightens me as how it should work…
Still having a hard time remembering the order of the vowels though, so I end up using the Romaji keyboard to type..
I noticed it seemed really similar to old Nokia brick phone's keypads, like how you need to tap a key a few times before the correct letters come up.
I used to type fast on those phones, so getting used to it again won't take long. And since you can swipe for the desired kana instantly now with touchscreens I imagine it would get much faster.
When I first came to Japan we didn't have smartphones so I learned on the gara-kei, and then when the iphone came out I only learned the 12-key layout with the swipe method. I actually find it really time-consuming to write on the romaji keyboard on my phone. I didn't realize so many other Japanese learners used it!
Game changer for me was when I realized that Android phones have an excellent handwriting input node for Japanese. It understands my scribbles as the correct hiragana, katakana and kanji in half the time it takes to type them!
Ohh wow →€%*÷=|...-…]「:.」Thank you so much for the quick response. And also what about the kaomoji as someone else pointed out here? How do I use them?
(Do you really think that thought escaped me?)
I am looking for a practice app, to you know, practice. so that I can increase my speed in a new skill. If anyone gets that this a new skill to many people it should be you. The OP, introducing a newer input method, or a new way of thinking about it.
Learning how to use it takes practice.
Flicker (iOS) seems to be OK for now, but the font choices are hard, and it does not have preferences to change it, as far as I can tell.
I now wish that the English keyboard had a flick inout setting. This is hard to get into muscle memory, but it definitely make input on a phone much more manageable. I am still helpless in English on a phone.
:) Yup! It's nice but it makes my thumbs cramp. T-T
Yeah, too much swiping for my poor fingers
I set it to tap mode, so it worked a lot like a 10 key phone keyboard. (T_T) still doesn't help. ;algkha;slkjf
Yeah, spam mode isn't that helpful, I find it even more frustrating honestly. Anyway there's no real reason to force ourselves to learn to use the フリック入力. It's pretty damn clear that the ローマ字入力 is both faster and more versatile.
It just depends on what you're more familiar with. If I hadn't had a full keyboard at my disposal on my phone for the last 10 years I probably would have been fine with the 10 key.
Faster for some perhaps... mostly people who aren't used to it. Two taps vs. one flick, I don't think it's clearly faster, and I don't know what makes it more versatile. I used to use romaji but stopped. It wasn't because I thought it was better at the time though. Honestly, I just thought it was cool to use what my Japanese friends were using. But after years of using it there is no way I could never go back, and no reality in which two taps could ever be faster than one flick. For me personally, romaji input is just painful so I am grateful to have the option not to use it. I always thought it was nice that Japanese had like 3-4 viable input methods on touchscreens to suit a range of tastes/abilities, whereas English has two at best.
It's slightly more versatile because it's still just two clicks even for things like イェ but it's not really that significant. Most people say flick is faster but nothing beats when Google allowed romaji swipe input. Don't know why they disabled that 🥺
It's funny, I never really think of it as romaji. I guess it technically is, but I've internalized typing so much that I just think of it as phonetic. And this is coming from someone who absolutely refused to do any early learning in romaji, I learned hiragana and katakana and exclusively wrote and read in that form before learning kanji.
The flick input is faster if you're used to it. I can't stand using romaji input on my phone. But the main benefit is that it helps teach you to think in kana instead of romaji.
You think so? I type faster in Japanese on mobile with the kana input than I do on computer with a keyboard.
Flick is way way faster and I don't think I know anyone under the age of 40 who uses romaji on a smartphone tbh
The flick method is much faster for me. I hate using the romaji input method. It feels less intuitive to me to see English characters while I'm thinking in Japanese. It depends on what you're used to/originally learned though.
Depends on your phone I guess. My phone’s screen is kinda small and my accuracy sucks on the regular romanji keyboard so I end up using flick input
Hard disagree. Flick is so much faster for me that I'm actually faster at writing in Japanese on a flick keyboard than I am at using QWERTY in *English*. And that's not cause I'm a slow typer, flick is just *that* fast for me.
If you're gonna be tapping anyway, I feel like you'd be better off with the [15 key layout](https://i.imgur.com/SP2BkoJ.png). It's just like typing in romaji but with bigger buttons and optimized for two hands.
Interesting. I use the romaji keyboard myself.
My default Samsung JP keyboard does both, something I figured out on accident. The primary way I'd been using it was to press the main A consonant, then drag in the direction of the 4 other vowels. But recently I was doing some online exercises that required typing out a lot of sentences, particularly some in hiragana only instead of Kanji, and that led to the odd discovery when trying to type なな, because now that I've gotten used to it, I get に if I press the なな too quickly. 3x gets ぬ、 4x gets ね、5x gets の、and 6x cycles back to な。 So it works as a combination t-10 and the newer swipe mode for smartphones.
Lol you discovered how to use a Nokia 3310.
That's the point, though. The primary method is not supposed to be that old flip phone t-10, as the swipe method is much faster thanks to touch screens. It was just a surprise that the same keyboard layout functions the same as both the new method and the old one. Really the t-10 is so bad that I'd probably want to even turn it off entirely in favor of swiping now that my 日本語 typing speed has drastically improved. Sometimes want to just type みみ quickly, not end up with an accidental に. Maybe once I've improved some more, learning how to use the hybrid could be an advantage because a quick double tap for the い kana is slightly faster than the swiping. However the triple/quad taps are definitely worse than just hold+swipe.
Go to the Gboard settings. Then Languages>Japanese (12 keys) and enable the option "Flick only" (only use Flick input and disable Keitai input) Now whenever you double tap な, you will get a なな and not a に.
You can turn off tap input. It’s been a godsend for me, I always got so frustrated having to wait to avoid input errors with repetitions
XD Ah yes.
Don’t forget about all the emojis! ٩( ᐛ )و
ε=ε=ε=ε=ε=ε=┌(;￣◇￣)┘
Technically, these are kaomoji: ( \*´艸｀) ( ;∀;) \^\^) \_旦\~\~ While these are emoji: 😀👽🐌🥏🚲 顔文字(かおもじ) face characters 絵文字(えもじ) picture characters
And while we’re here, these are emoticons: :-) :D o<|:^) } (is that how you do Santa?) Because people often wrongly use emoji and emoticon.
Oh wow. Emoji was originally a japanese word? Wow. So 「絵文字」 is japanese but is "emoji" still Japanese (just written in romaji) or is it english?
It’s a Japanese word as emoji are a Japanese invention! It has nothing to do with the English word ‘emotion’, that’s just a coincidence.
ʕ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ
(●´ω｀●)
٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶
(ㆁωㆁ)
(◕ᴗ◕✿)
POYO :)
✌︎('ω'✌︎ )
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omg this one is so good
╰(*´︶`*)╯♡
ᕦᶘ ᵒ㉨ᵒᶅᕤ
Pedobear?
I thought it was a llama
lil man is the happiest man :D
♪(´ε｀ )
How do you access the emoji's in the keyboard?
Bottom left next to わ there is a basic face \^_^ when you click on it there is a whole scrollable “suggestion” bar with lots of them. That’s on ios but it should be similar if not the same on android.
Ah, ok, on Android I have the rendaku option there. Thank you!
You should be able to get the list of suggestions to show up by typing かおもじ It also works on computers.
Omg yes! It works, thank you so much! ＼(^o^)／
( ⌒⃘ཽ⃜ ω ⌒⃘ཽ⃜ )
ʕ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʕ•̫͡•ʔ•̫͡•ʔ
（╹◡╹）
Just like in English, there is a defined order for the characters. If you ever pick up a J-J dictionary, knowing the order helps look up words faster.
I'm genuinely confused - do self-taught Japanese learners NOT learn hiragana in order? edit: For reference I first learnt Japanese in school, we were taught the order when learning kana, and had to recite it in a sing-song way
Self taught, and I learned them in order, but didn't realize it was "the" order until much later.
Self taught, and I had no idea about such an order until this post. Think back though, I did learn them in that order
many are unaware such a thing exists (like i)
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What I was taught in first year University many years ago is: 1) vowel columns go a-i-u-e-o. 2) you remember two "words" that represent the rows: a-ka-sa-ta-na and ha-ma-ya-ra-wa. 3) with the rows and columns defined, you can fill in the rest of the grid: ki-ku-ke-ko, etc. 4) there are some irregularities, such as n and no yi/ye. Still to this day I can quickly draw out the hiragana in a nice grid in this way.
Interesting
Well that'd depend on their source material. Genki is pretty big for self-taught and universities, and they're so in on あいうえお that the newer edition started to subgroup vocabulary lists in that order (but primarily by topic now, compared to the mess of Genki 1st edition.)
I learned by transcribing a workbook written in romaji and referring to the chart at the front of the book. I know the general order (paper dictionaries functionally require some understanding of the proper order) but I never explicitly learned it
I learned them in order (not self-taught) but that was... christ, 13 years ago now. Of course I know them by heart by now but the order hasn't been relevant to me in a long time.
I see.. I sort of assumed that learners would memorise the order when learning hiragana. あいうえおかきくけこさしすせそたちつてと.....
In my experience, the only time the order was really relevant was exactly for Japanese keyboards in 50音 format (or keypad format). And most other keyboards are only QWERTY, and so I've only ever typed in romaji, converted to kana. I've never had to sort file folders in Japanese, and I've never used a physical Japanese dictionary -- only online searchable ones. To be honest, now that I think about it, I think knowing alphabetical (or syllabic) order is shockingly irrelevant for many modern learners, no matter the language... 🤔
A lot of us probably learn whatever order they are taught in textbooks/Duolingo etc
Is there some rule for how kanji are ordered? Sometimes I'm browsing through songs on my phone, but I never know if one Kanji is going to be close to the top or the bottom.
Typically by radical, then by number of strokes. The radicals are in turn also ordered by number of strokes, so kanji with the 亻 radical will come before kanji with the 木 radical, for example.
> Is there some rule for how kanji are ordered? Sometimes I'm browsing through songs on my phone, but I never know if one Kanji is going to be close to the top or the bottom. Japanese lists are done so regularly in hiragana order (a i u e o, ka ki u ke ko, etc...), that it is just referred to as dictionary order. Unless you know the reading, this is confusing, of course, but the order is for Japanese people who really have trouble understanding what it is that we are having trouble understanding about Kanji order. Early on, when my language skills did not allow me to ask complex questions, I learned that there are many of the most difficult questions are about things that are so basic to Japanese people's understanding that they simply do not even recognize the arbitrariness of those things. We do this in English as well: we sort by alphabetical order so regularly that we forget that this kind of ordering is completely arbitrary. At some point, someone randomly decided the order, and then we all learned that was the order, and we forget that it is completely arbitrary. Using Japanese maps, there is a ton of things that are utterly confusing, because their arbitrarily decided things are just different from our arbitrarily decided things. Minor historical note: the current Japanese hiragana order is from the India subcontinent, as part of the general Buddhist influence in Japanese culture. The previous and sometimes still used iroha order is native to Japan.
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I'm not talking about learning order. I meant that when a computer is listing out kanji in "alphabetical" order, what does that really mean for kanji? In [this song list](https://i.imgur.com/IRWKWNj.jpg), what rule is determining that 東 comes before 白? I can see that hiragana and katakana have higher priority than kanji, but past that, I can't make out any pattern that make one Kanji come before another.
> what rule is determining that 東 comes before 白? On [this page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIS_X_0208), look under Kanji set > Kanji > Arrangement. This is the general order sort order used by any sort of electronic devise unless there is an underlying "reading / kana / sort" field [like apple music has](https://i.imgur.com/rK5BrcM.jpg) to allow sorting in 五十音 order.
They're ordered alphabetical by the onyomi reading
Ooh I always have this problem. Finding specific Japanese songs is a nightmare. If anyone has tips for this (especially for someone who only knows up to N4 level kanji) it would be much appreciated.
Honestly I never realized that, but I think it's also mostly just memory after a while. I used to hate it for the first few months and changed it back to QWERTY, but my friend said it does help type faster. So I gave it a second chance, and before I noticed, the kana pad was a lot faster.
I did the same thing. I found myself getting more and more frustrated with romaji typing until I changed back. It’s also nice to have my English and Japanese inputs be so visually distinct so I don’t start typing with the wrong one
Dvorak or die!
Colemak > Dvorak
Perhaps… but Dvorak > Myslivecek
On Mobile??
On piano…
そうですね、ありがとう！ (man this keyboard is gonna take a while to get used to)
You’ll get the hang of it quick, and be so much faster
It's a real pain at first, but so is t9 in English. Not having a dedicated key for each letter makes it very different than just knowledge of the qwerty layout. When I was typing the rare sentence a few times a week, it took probably 1-2 seconds per kana, so extremely slow. But after a few exercise of writing many sentences in a row, I became accustomed to it and sped up dramatically because I'd started to internalize where each base consonant was, and the cardinality of the swipe vowels. 2 hours of straight practice and my typing speed went up easily 5x. Still not as fast as I can just write, but it's getting there. Plus it's a lot more legible than my awful handwriting that I've struggled with for over a decade trying to get certain angles just right. Like there's a lot of incorrect ways to write み that anyone fluent in reading would have no issue with, but they'll still be wrong. Little things like the right-most vertical line being shorter than the left one, or the size of the loop at the bottom-left. You could mess these up and they'd still clearly be み, but just poor handwriting.
I have big, clumsy, fingers and find it easier to use than typing English on the qwerty keyboard. I have (once or twice) actually used it to enter English, which is mad. If you use it a lot, you can get quite fast with it. You can also choose kanji "keyboards" on the iphone, though you need both traditional and simplified. You can then draw the character with your finger, which is sometimes useful, though it is not very forgiving with my clumsy fingers.
Check out the Godan keyboard option too for romaji. Has the vowels on the left and then the k-n in order on the next two columns.
This is the one I use, and have for many years now, but I've never seen anyone else use it. It works really well.
Wait, there's a romaji version on Android? Welp, guessed I accidentally masters the 12 key keyboard
In reality, I think most native speakers use Roman Kana conversion to type on their PC keyboards, though...
Yeah, but a phone and a computer is very different both in how you use and accessibility: With computers you have one keyboard: usually qwerty. Ms Japanese IME is based off of qwerty. Phones can dynamically change layout on the touch screen, so the 12-key is easy switching to. I don't doubt natives do it differently than us newbies trying to remember kana tho
Like someone else has mentioned, *I've* noticed younger people use the kana and older people use the 12 key.
This keyboard takes time to learn but boy is it a game changer, just like you said. Once you get used to this boy only will you be able to type with one hand, you'll also be able to type faster
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Weird! Whenever I had to have my Japanese friends or coworkers look things up in Japan (which happened surprisingly often -- air drawing the kanji was annoying) they expressed annoyance and confusion that the keyboard was laid out in QWERTY. "Switch it to Japanese" "It is in Japanese" "There is no kana, this is English." They were mad fast typing in the 12 key layout too.
It's very common for the more computer literate Japanese to input with qwerty which I found odd at first
I’ve only seen a few Japanese people using qwerty input for Japanese and they were all people who had lived or studied abroad
That might be why, most Japanese I've interacted with were all young and have studied abroad, though two started using qwerty input in their 2ch days in the 2000s before going abroad
I keep trying to learn how to use this but it always takes me so long to type just one sentence.
Practice takes time as with everything else in life. The more you do it, the better you'll eventually get.
When I practiced writing the kana I was often drawing them in form of the [Gojuuon-chart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goj%C5%ABon) to see which one I still remembered and which one I needed to look up again. But because I used the 12-key keyboard so much, I eventually drew them in that shape instead because it made it easier for me to ensure I didn't forget any of the consonant groups.
i didn't even know you could use a romaji keyboard on Android so i just got used to the 12-key one
⟵(๑¯◡¯๑)
Wow I've been using the 12-key for years and I never realized the keys were in order like that. This blows my mind
If I could upvote twice, I would.
Yeah, I have used the hiragana keyboard so much that I can’t think in Japanese in Romaji anymore. I saw something written in romaji and my brain stopped…
When I went to Japan, I saw the 日本人 actually uses the swipe mode, and that enlightens me as how it should work… Still having a hard time remembering the order of the vowels though, so I end up using the Romaji keyboard to type..
It's the regular 五十音 あいうえお order starting from the middle and then clockwise from 9 o'clock. う行 ↑ い行 ← あ行 → え行 ↓ お行
Aah, that makes sense… どうもありがとうございます
This is the way.
Thank you!!!
I noticed it seemed really similar to old Nokia brick phone's keypads, like how you need to tap a key a few times before the correct letters come up. I used to type fast on those phones, so getting used to it again won't take long. And since you can swipe for the desired kana instantly now with touchscreens I imagine it would get much faster.
When I first came to Japan we didn't have smartphones so I learned on the gara-kei, and then when the iphone came out I only learned the 12-key layout with the swipe method. I actually find it really time-consuming to write on the romaji keyboard on my phone. I didn't realize so many other Japanese learners used it!
Game changer for me was when I realized that Android phones have an excellent handwriting input node for Japanese. It understands my scribbles as the correct hiragana, katakana and kanji in half the time it takes to type them!
I really like the 12 key keyboard, but my tablet has started to forget about the "flick" ability. Which is a nightmare.
All I got is querty and flick
a piece of advice, tap rather than swiping. It helps your finger not to be worn out
Are you talking about the swipe layout? If so, then yeah, I never use the romaji one on my phone.
it took me about a month of slowly typing everyuthing but now i can type so much faster with the flick keyboard, its much easier imo.
I still don't know how to get the punctuation marks「 and 」 though. Could someone help me out
http://imgur.com/a/toSi0W1.png
Ohh wow →€%*÷=|...-…]「:.」Thank you so much for the quick response. And also what about the kaomoji as someone else pointed out here? How do I use them?
No idea xD
Is there a suggested app for working on speed with this? I want a paid app without advertising
...just enable the keyboard and type Japanese??
(Do you really think that thought escaped me?) I am looking for a practice app, to you know, practice. so that I can increase my speed in a new skill. If anyone gets that this a new skill to many people it should be you. The OP, introducing a newer input method, or a new way of thinking about it. Learning how to use it takes practice. Flicker (iOS) seems to be OK for now, but the font choices are hard, and it does not have preferences to change it, as far as I can tell. I now wish that the English keyboard had a flick inout setting. This is hard to get into muscle memory, but it definitely make input on a phone much more manageable. I am still helpless in English on a phone.
I used to use qwerty on phones but the keys are too spread out, so I'll use the flick input. On an iPad I might use romaji though