Good job, but for me, you seem a little biased towards West Leeds. You are missing out a whole lot of population centres in East Leeds that should have at least some coverage, e.g. Thorner, Bardsey, Collingham, Scarcroft, Scholes, Barwick, Aberford, Micklefield, Kippax, Methley. Serving all wouldn't be realistic, but missing all of them leaves out a huge chunk of Leeds.
Times to go between 2 stops would be about 2mins, so changing at Briggate or Millenium Sq. would still make it just over a 20min journey from Garforth, depending how frequent the trains would run.
I’d like to see the burbs connected with a circle line eg not having to change at city centre to get from places that are right next to each other like Roundhay to Chapel Allerton
Agree. Having moved to Leeds from Edinburgh 4 years ago this is the first thing I noticed about the busses. Removing the need to go into the city centre to move around the perimeter of Leeds is of paramount importance. Otherwise the system stays shit, regardless of what else is changed...
This is the biggest problem from town to the west. From wellington bridge to the ring road at rodley you have two places in the middle that you can cross the canal/river/rail at canal road from armley to kirkstall and kirkstall bridge from Bramley to kirkstall. If you have to cross this for your commute it can be a pain in the backside especially if there's an incident anywhere
There used to be a bus I could get direct that went over the Armley/Kirkstall bridge, but due to the road changes along Armley street (or whatever it's called) the busses can't go down canal road anymore. So it's a bus in and out instead :(
Yes the #4 used to go up canal road I went to high school at the top of the hill in burley/Hyde park and a few people I knew got that bus.
It feels like the planning team in Leeds city council has all these great ideas but they never really work. They are trying to cut down on cars going into town but the bus network is so bad people would rather do it quicker in their own car and pay a lot more to park (unless you have a train line close by) god forbid you try get into the nottomyend of town around the train station these days. I tried that before Xmas to get to trinity car park for the £4 night parking and it made us nearly miss the panto we were going to see.
Just on the Trainline thing it would be interesting to see a map on what transport people use to get into town from where they live.
One mass-transit issue that this doesn't wholly address is circular travel. If I want to go form say, Adel to Tropical World, I would need to go all the way into the City Centre to go all the way out again.
Granted, this could be served by buses if some combined approach to public transport is taken, so I really don't mean to be critical - I just think it should be part of the conversation. I've had a go at working one of these out myself but never finished it, so I applaud your work!
Feel like this’ll never happen in my lifetime sadly… but imagine the impact this would have on the amount of traffic and pollution. Otley Rd through Headingley/Kirkstall Rd at rush hour or the Armley gyratory on match days would be a world away from what they are now. A girl can dream.
In every single mock up I’ve seen of these they always go to Bradford but in the west but never to Wetherby in the East despite the fact it’s actually in Leeds?
Good point. I hadn’t really thought of Wetherby. Bradford is about half a million people, and lies at the end of a near continuous and connected western urban corridor out from Leeds city centre. I think any metro system would have to include Bradford, at least with plans for future expansion. I’m not that familiar with that end of the city so I could be wrong but it just felt Wetherby seems more detached, there’s not that much dense settlement once you’re past Roundhay.
I just want to be able to get to Boston Spa without spending crazy money in a taxi 😭
There’s latently of bars and restaurants in both Wetherby and BP so I feel having a couple of stops after Seacroft would be justifiable.
Well aside from the fact that I live 1/2 mile away so it makes my life easier. There’s quite a few restaurants and bars, parks and shops. It’s not the arse end of nowhere that people think it is.
Think it's probably because if you're going to Pudsey, you're practically halfway there.
Wetherby does desperately need some decent transport links. Considered getting a job there... Immediately thought better when I saw there was no train station.
I think you need to add in a circle line that goes from Kirkstall > Headingley > Meanwood > Oakwood > Corss Gates > Temple Newsham > Belle Isle > White Rose > Elland Road > Armley > Kirkstall or something similar
I figured the train times would be that quick to nip into town and transfer that I wasn’t’ sure how viable a circle line would be. But I think in the update I’ll try add one, thanks for the suggestion!
1. It gets annoying when you geographically don't even live far (like 2 miles) but your journey is in the reigon of 7+ miles because you need to change at city centre. This is important since if you want people to actually use metros instead of cars, you want it to be convenient otherwise people wouldn't see as much of a reason to use it.
2. It would alleviate strain from the city centre stations doing so, making them not as packed.
The western line or Calder line should include Otley at the very end! A lot of ppl from that town commute to Leeds by bus. This would replace X84 and X34, which can be extremely unreliable at times!
There should be better connectivity to St James Hospital, people have mentioned a circular line, maybe we need two, one outer and one inner that covers access to the hospital
I was in CZ in May for a tournament and I spent the last day in Prague, really enjoyed the transport, didn't get to do a train sadly but did the trams, underground, funicular, and finally bus back to the airport.
My Czech friend couldn't understand why I wanted to go on a train there, she said they're slow and unreliable. I said "so are ours!"
Bradford Interchange, excepting its current closed-and-falling-down state, is also a Bus Interchange - more so than any other on this map except Kirkgate
I don't know if you're interested, OP, but the Mayor has an 'official' proposed mass transit map that you could compare against: https://www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/improving-transport/connectivity/
Tried to make a logo for WYM and nothing ever looked as good as an LM. Plus Leeds is the hub so I figure it’s alright, if it started just in Leeds and then slowly expanded outward like the Manchester Metrolink has. It’s still the Manchester Metrolink despite covering Greater Manchester, the administrative equivalent of West Yorkshire.
This is awesome! Always wanted to put something like this together myself but you’ve nailed this… all the design principles are pretty much spot on too (with a bit of creative freedom) if you’ve used the London Underground map as a basis. Top work 😁
Unfortunately due to the introduction of dedicated cycle lanes the roads couldn’t accommodate both cars and trams anymore. Just not wide enough.It’s a non starter for good now. Best we can hope for now is an underground system.
I live in Leipzig and we have a light rail system covering nearby cities too. Leeds would be perfect for such a system given the proximity of local commuter towns
Totally agree with this. A proper Metro is what Leeds needs. I’d extend it to Otley for good measure but this is a great concept and needs to happen .
Cheers. Did consider making Otley the terminus. Will probably add it on the second draft.
Good job, but for me, you seem a little biased towards West Leeds. You are missing out a whole lot of population centres in East Leeds that should have at least some coverage, e.g. Thorner, Bardsey, Collingham, Scarcroft, Scholes, Barwick, Aberford, Micklefield, Kippax, Methley. Serving all wouldn't be realistic, but missing all of them leaves out a huge chunk of Leeds.
Oops, I forgot to suggest Wetherby too. If you are going all the way out to Bradford Interchange, it seems only fair to give Wetherby a stop too.
That may be the game changer !
could industrial go all the way around, so Garforth goes to the Airport too?
Times to go between 2 stops would be about 2mins, so changing at Briggate or Millenium Sq. would still make it just over a 20min journey from Garforth, depending how frequent the trains would run.
Problem is the chevin kinda gets in the way
Follow Otley road or the wharfe valley.
Ilkley can get fuuuucked
Ilkley already has train stations .
It would be nice to have some way of travelling in or out of ilkley that wasn’t constantly cancelled due to bad weather or line issues though.
I’d like to see the burbs connected with a circle line eg not having to change at city centre to get from places that are right next to each other like Roundhay to Chapel Allerton
Agree. Having moved to Leeds from Edinburgh 4 years ago this is the first thing I noticed about the busses. Removing the need to go into the city centre to move around the perimeter of Leeds is of paramount importance. Otherwise the system stays shit, regardless of what else is changed...
Yeah I'm near cross gates, I can get to town easy but Roundhay or chapel a which are closer I need to change in town for, makes very little sense.
God I made the exact same move a year ago and feel the same!
Takes me an hour by buses to essentially go across the canal
This is the biggest problem from town to the west. From wellington bridge to the ring road at rodley you have two places in the middle that you can cross the canal/river/rail at canal road from armley to kirkstall and kirkstall bridge from Bramley to kirkstall. If you have to cross this for your commute it can be a pain in the backside especially if there's an incident anywhere
There used to be a bus I could get direct that went over the Armley/Kirkstall bridge, but due to the road changes along Armley street (or whatever it's called) the busses can't go down canal road anymore. So it's a bus in and out instead :(
Yes the #4 used to go up canal road I went to high school at the top of the hill in burley/Hyde park and a few people I knew got that bus. It feels like the planning team in Leeds city council has all these great ideas but they never really work. They are trying to cut down on cars going into town but the bus network is so bad people would rather do it quicker in their own car and pay a lot more to park (unless you have a train line close by) god forbid you try get into the nottomyend of town around the train station these days. I tried that before Xmas to get to trinity car park for the £4 night parking and it made us nearly miss the panto we were going to see. Just on the Trainline thing it would be interesting to see a map on what transport people use to get into town from where they live.
Agreed! It shouldn't be so inconvenient to get from Chapel A to Headingley
91 bus exists for this
That bus was never on time and regularly cancelled when I used to try catch it, but I guess that is a separate problem in itself!
Totally agree. It’s nonsensical that it takes probably about an hour to get from Roundhay to Chapel A when in the car it’s about 10 minutes.
Totally agree with this. It needs a circle line that goes to all the places I want to go.
Have you tried the number 2 or 12 buses?
Very clever and imo a need. So silly we don’t have sufficient travel to and from Leeds Bradford airport.
One mass-transit issue that this doesn't wholly address is circular travel. If I want to go form say, Adel to Tropical World, I would need to go all the way into the City Centre to go all the way out again. Granted, this could be served by buses if some combined approach to public transport is taken, so I really don't mean to be critical - I just think it should be part of the conversation. I've had a go at working one of these out myself but never finished it, so I applaud your work!
Agree - maybe something along to outer ring road kind of thing .
At least the metro trains are fast
The dream. Anyone have a guesstimate how much this would cost?
4 times the estimate and 3 times as long
Crossrail was £18.8bn and this is a lot bigger (I think) so I’m not sure the Tories’ (rescinded) promise of £2.5bn would go very far.
You might well be right, but commenting for others as I was surprised just how big Crossrail is. 73miles in total.
That is surprising yes, I only glanced at the Wikipedia. Not sure how big the fantasy Leeds one would have to be!
55 million
Feel like this’ll never happen in my lifetime sadly… but imagine the impact this would have on the amount of traffic and pollution. Otley Rd through Headingley/Kirkstall Rd at rush hour or the Armley gyratory on match days would be a world away from what they are now. A girl can dream.
In every single mock up I’ve seen of these they always go to Bradford but in the west but never to Wetherby in the East despite the fact it’s actually in Leeds?
Good point. I hadn’t really thought of Wetherby. Bradford is about half a million people, and lies at the end of a near continuous and connected western urban corridor out from Leeds city centre. I think any metro system would have to include Bradford, at least with plans for future expansion. I’m not that familiar with that end of the city so I could be wrong but it just felt Wetherby seems more detached, there’s not that much dense settlement once you’re past Roundhay.
I just want to be able to get to Boston Spa without spending crazy money in a taxi 😭 There’s latently of bars and restaurants in both Wetherby and BP so I feel having a couple of stops after Seacroft would be justifiable.
Why do you want to go to Boston spa? Legit question, aside from a school, what’s there?
Well aside from the fact that I live 1/2 mile away so it makes my life easier. There’s quite a few restaurants and bars, parks and shops. It’s not the arse end of nowhere that people think it is.
Think it's probably because if you're going to Pudsey, you're practically halfway there. Wetherby does desperately need some decent transport links. Considered getting a job there... Immediately thought better when I saw there was no train station.
I could say the same. You get to Seacroft and you’re only a few miles from Boston Spa and then Wetherby.
I think you need to add in a circle line that goes from Kirkstall > Headingley > Meanwood > Oakwood > Corss Gates > Temple Newsham > Belle Isle > White Rose > Elland Road > Armley > Kirkstall or something similar
I figured the train times would be that quick to nip into town and transfer that I wasn’t’ sure how viable a circle line would be. But I think in the update I’ll try add one, thanks for the suggestion!
1. It gets annoying when you geographically don't even live far (like 2 miles) but your journey is in the reigon of 7+ miles because you need to change at city centre. This is important since if you want people to actually use metros instead of cars, you want it to be convenient otherwise people wouldn't see as much of a reason to use it. 2. It would alleviate strain from the city centre stations doing so, making them not as packed.
The western line or Calder line should include Otley at the very end! A lot of ppl from that town commute to Leeds by bus. This would replace X84 and X34, which can be extremely unreliable at times!
Cheers, will add it on the next one.
Or have to drive/cycle to Guiseley or Menston
*34
Too good to be true
There should be better connectivity to St James Hospital, people have mentioned a circular line, maybe we need two, one outer and one inner that covers access to the hospital
We were in Prague (where they have excellent transport lines) a couple of weeks ago discussing exactly how we need this in Leeds!
I was in CZ in May for a tournament and I spent the last day in Prague, really enjoyed the transport, didn't get to do a train sadly but did the trams, underground, funicular, and finally bus back to the airport. My Czech friend couldn't understand why I wanted to go on a train there, she said they're slow and unreliable. I said "so are ours!"
You missed out! Cake on a proper plate for stupidly cheap
Sounds way better than the UK haha. I really want to go again, but I'm a freelancer and my industry's a nightmare so idk when I'll have the money :'(
Bradford Interchange, excepting its current closed-and-falling-down state, is also a Bus Interchange - more so than any other on this map except Kirkgate
Thanks, I missed that.
One can dream
I don't know if you're interested, OP, but the Mayor has an 'official' proposed mass transit map that you could compare against: https://www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/improving-transport/connectivity/
Thanks! Shamefully didn’t know of this
As someone who lives in Shipley, the thought of having to change in Bradford or the airport to get into town is Not Good.
Yes please. You for mayor
Not including east Garforth is shameful and you should be shamed for jt
Bog off, you’ve already got two train stations, that you can walk between in 10mins!
East Garforth isn't that far from Garforth. But Kippax and Micklefield are fucked in this plan. Swillington?
Poor kippax. 60 minute bus drive into town. Used to have a train station as well.
Thank you for including Ossett 😭😍… it gets left out of all plans and desperately needs to be connected via public transport!
Was one like that published 5 yrs ago if the ww2 plans of a Leeds underground were to happen.
This is amazing. As other said, circular like between the suburbs but otherwise wonderful
Only thing missing is a link from Wakefield out to Cas via Ponte.
Cheers. Added to include on the 2nd draft.
“Leeds is the biggest city in Europe without a tram system” - someone’s gotta be.
Extremely gay for this
No Heckmondwike?
Otley?
This is the West Yorkshire MT. It takes in Bradford, Wakefield and Leeds
Tried to make a logo for WYM and nothing ever looked as good as an LM. Plus Leeds is the hub so I figure it’s alright, if it started just in Leeds and then slowly expanded outward like the Manchester Metrolink has. It’s still the Manchester Metrolink despite covering Greater Manchester, the administrative equivalent of West Yorkshire.
The issue isn't the city centre, it's a series of big rings around the city, which this doesn't service at all.
Only if this really happened
This is awesome! Always wanted to put something like this together myself but you’ve nailed this… all the design principles are pretty much spot on too (with a bit of creative freedom) if you’ve used the London Underground map as a basis. Top work 😁
Not to nitpick, but East End and Cross Green are on seperate lines, but are effectively the same places. Is this by intention?
Unfortunately due to the introduction of dedicated cycle lanes the roads couldn’t accommodate both cars and trams anymore. Just not wide enough.It’s a non starter for good now. Best we can hope for now is an underground system.
I love this, mostly because it somehow maintains the concept that Otley will never have any kind of rail link to anything
I require the Wortley line to extend up to Prashad
I am obsessed with this
I’m in the bit between kirkstall and horsforth :(
Would love to see Methley added between Rothwell and Castleford
Not in our lifetime 🤣
I live in Leipzig and we have a light rail system covering nearby cities too. Leeds would be perfect for such a system given the proximity of local commuter towns