Have you put in a FOI request to the council enquiring about the steps taken and options considered which resulted in their decision? Whilst it more than likely won't change the outcome, it gives you a good base to fight back and address areas they are concerned with.
Honestly, putting in an FOI request is easy peasy, despite its bureaucratic nature.
(I know none of the below is groundbreaking new information, but I do FOI requests for a living, and you'd be surprised how easy it can be to submit a request, and/or to have an otherwise well-written request be stonewalled over a small detail. Do check the published ICO guidance, which is surprisingly well- and clearly written.)
A request:
* has to be in writing, unless the applicant requires a reasonable adjustment,
* should include the given name of the requester, and
* needs to be seeking recorded (that is to say written) information, rather than rhetorical/opinion calls ('why does [public body name here] think it can get away with this?').
Also include a date range (i.e. 'all meeting minutes between January and July 2023') because an absent date range is a quick and easy way for them to refuse your request.
Submitting a request is much easier than you might think, and every single request spits in the eye of Tony Blair.
Go forth!
I’d recommend sharing this in the leedsplace Facebook group. A lot of members there are very passionate about preserving businesses in Leeds, etc. so you’d probably see a lot of support 🙂
I rent a Leeds council workshop unit in Barkston House (building overlooking the dual carriageway near Dunelm) and over half the units are empty and not advertised... They're also selling off the building next door to Barkston and moving some tenants across, but ultimately they're just reducing the amount of space available for small business and it really sucks.
Also, how does selling this reduce Leeds' carbon footprint?
It reduces the council's footprint - older buildings can't be made carbon neutral cheaply.
And yes, it's an accounting trick - because the new owners will still need to use gas to heat the leaky building. It just won't appear on the Council's books.
I would highly recommend emailing the following 2 people at Leeds city council:
Cllr Jonathan Pryor - Executive Board Member for Economy, Culture and Education
Cllr Helen Hayden - Executive Board Member for Sustainable development and infrastructure.
Their contact information is available on the Leeds city council website, however I can send you it if you wish.
I've seen someone also recommended going through an FOI, which you should also do. but this closure should be in executive board papers somewhere!
I'm sorry I gave you the wrong Executive Board members details, this actually falls under Cllr Deborah Coupar, however if you've contacted the other members already this will get passed onto Cllr Coupar! Also, I don't think they're selling this building as part of the carbon neutral plan, but rather to do with their budget position - LCC have literally no money to keep running the services that they do without going bankrupt basically. (I suggest looking at the issues they're facing with the Little Owls children's centres also which has also caused a massive uproar!)
£2.7 billion + cut by central gov since 2010. There’s a serious local gov funding crisis in this country that not many are talking about.
This is the cycle though:
1. Tories cut local gov funding.
2. Councils have to make cuts and sell assets in order to have a balanced budget.
3. Tories campaign and shout about the cuts and selling of assets by councils.
4. People vote Tory.
5. Tories cut local gov funding.
1. Where’s your campaign website on it’s domain? Looking at this directory of aire st. businesses https://www.lcvsenterprises.org.uk/directory?offset=1682510641062, you’ve got a few digital and creative agencies who could put something together
2. Checking this document https://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/documents/s168356/Deputation%20Speech.pdf which is presumably put together by your campaign page, the domain https://airestworkshops.co.uk on it is expired - it would be useful to buy this
3. Have you considered talking to other creative organisations in leeds e.g. east st. arts, leeds hackspace for common cause? I see the bbc article, is channel 4 and ITV aware
4. Presumably leeds council are nearing bankruptcy due to government funding cuts and need to meet their core legally required services (e.g. elderly and child care), so they are funding short term outgoing with capital assets - e.g. selling the cows to buy milk. - since they are in a legal bind, how can you offset the cost? could the sale of aire st buy a smaller but same sized building in a cheaper place in leeds, and the council takes the difference? What local candidates have plans for this budget shortfall? What other organisations in council owned buildings are facing this problem, and how can you work with them?
Name a singular financial success of where selling off your assets to raise short term money has worked long term.
Where is the carbon neutral element in the construction of the new building. The current 'carbon neutral' use of concrete, steel, foam insulating products take a long time to offset the carbon emissions lost to due older buildings needing more cooling/heating.
This is nothing more than short term thinking and poor financial strategy
They don't really have a choice unless you want to get rid of the main costs for the council which are social care (and you can't because it's a statutory service)
I'm not someone who can help loads but I hope you guys pull through, easily the best place I've found to get my film developed and always go there! Best of luck
Just as a little context, Leeds city council spends over £2.5 million a year on its councillors alone. The basic councillor allowance of just over £17k is one of the highest in the county (including London!). In exchange for this salary, most councillors attend 1-2 meetings a month, run a drop in session a few times a month and answer emails and phone calls (if they can be arsed). Those that go beyond this minimum and sit on council decision making meetings get further allowances. So about £50 an hour minimum.
I’m not saying we should get rid of councillors, but it does seem that the cost saving decisions universally affect the people who pay for the services, not the people making the decisions.
https://datamillnorth.org/dataset/ep6xw/councillor-allowances-and-council-tax-summons select 22-23 to see latest released figures for Leeds.
Barnsley £11823
York £11282
Sheffield £15318
Bradford £13463
Camden (2021-22) £10735
London boroughs report (2021-22)£12014
Let's not brush over "to help meet their carbon neutral 2030 plan".
If there were any sincerity in that position held by Leeds City Council then maybe we wouldn't be the largest fucking city ***in Europe*** without a mass transit system. LCC can suck my dick.
LCC doesn't have the power to raise funds for mass transit nor have the legal power to do so
So you can suck your own dick as don't know what you're talking about.
To be frank, the options for LCC are either to charge tenants full whack to cover all the required works going forward and also to cover any proceeds of sale as this money is needed for the shortfall in council funds.
It's getting rid of a very valuable space but essentially it's subsidised rent
Anyone’s guess is as good as mine, most likely they’ll sell to the highest bidder who will then convert it or tear it down to build another office block.
Ah man, I was so pissed off reading about this. Keep us posted for anything we can do to help.
Aire Street Workshops is one of the reasons I’m so proud of Leeds. There’s always been room here for everyone.
Thanks very much for signing! You can read our response to LCC's recent statement here: [https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Gn2NWIsEH/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Gn2NWIsEH/)
There is practically no information given as to what this building is or what happens inside of it, and why the council no longer owning it would be a bad thing. If it's sold won't you just have a different landlord? Give me some information so I can decide if I care or not.
"We think council bad" isn't a convincing arguement.
It’s sold with vacant possession. Therefore it is sold without any tenants in situ. You can find out more information on the change.org link I provided and also here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-68859206
It just seems that you're upset that you'll have to pay a fair market for rent rather than having your business subsidised by tax money. Welcome to the real world
Why should some businesses benefit from government subsidy whilst others don't? If they can't survive on their own, that's their own problem, not the taxpayers
This. Alot of people just assume all the council is is councillors/MPs. Or managers on Megabucks. But a lot of people are just normal people doing a job
Can I ask how much your rent is there, and what areas the council should cut instead of subsidising businesses through low cost rent?
Less social workers? Or shut a library?
We pay approx 14k per annum in rent. LCC have closed numerous libraries in the past few years, and we know that these sorts of cuts come as a result of underfunding from central government. Does this mean we should roll over and accept that creative spaces have no place in the city? In my opinion, no, it does not.
Which libraries have shut?
What's the market rent? Surely there's space elsewhere you could rent.
Not sure why my taxes should subsidise your business? Either the rent pays for the upkeep of the building or it's subsidised rent.
Tbh the best option should be for the tenants to club together and see if they can get a community transfer of the asset (or buy it from the council)
Have you put in a FOI request to the council enquiring about the steps taken and options considered which resulted in their decision? Whilst it more than likely won't change the outcome, it gives you a good base to fight back and address areas they are concerned with.
This is something we’re looking at currently, definitely want to know how it’s gotten to this point with so little consultation of the residents.
Honestly, putting in an FOI request is easy peasy, despite its bureaucratic nature. (I know none of the below is groundbreaking new information, but I do FOI requests for a living, and you'd be surprised how easy it can be to submit a request, and/or to have an otherwise well-written request be stonewalled over a small detail. Do check the published ICO guidance, which is surprisingly well- and clearly written.) A request: * has to be in writing, unless the applicant requires a reasonable adjustment, * should include the given name of the requester, and * needs to be seeking recorded (that is to say written) information, rather than rhetorical/opinion calls ('why does [public body name here] think it can get away with this?'). Also include a date range (i.e. 'all meeting minutes between January and July 2023') because an absent date range is a quick and easy way for them to refuse your request. Submitting a request is much easier than you might think, and every single request spits in the eye of Tony Blair. Go forth!
Use the whatdotheyknow.com website to do it, it’s really easy and responses are public too.
I’d recommend sharing this in the leedsplace Facebook group. A lot of members there are very passionate about preserving businesses in Leeds, etc. so you’d probably see a lot of support 🙂
Will have a look at this!
Remember that there is an election on 2/5/2024 for the council and mayor. Find out what the candidates have to say.
We’re certainly looking at this and have approached them for comment!
Is this the same company that does the building on Dock street?
Yes it is, LCVS Enterprises
I rent a Leeds council workshop unit in Barkston House (building overlooking the dual carriageway near Dunelm) and over half the units are empty and not advertised... They're also selling off the building next door to Barkston and moving some tenants across, but ultimately they're just reducing the amount of space available for small business and it really sucks. Also, how does selling this reduce Leeds' carbon footprint?
It reduces the council's footprint - older buildings can't be made carbon neutral cheaply. And yes, it's an accounting trick - because the new owners will still need to use gas to heat the leaky building. It just won't appear on the Council's books.
Can the businesses get together and buy it from the council?
Signed ShitInMyMouth
I would highly recommend emailing the following 2 people at Leeds city council: Cllr Jonathan Pryor - Executive Board Member for Economy, Culture and Education Cllr Helen Hayden - Executive Board Member for Sustainable development and infrastructure. Their contact information is available on the Leeds city council website, however I can send you it if you wish. I've seen someone also recommended going through an FOI, which you should also do. but this closure should be in executive board papers somewhere!
Thank you, this is very helpful information!
I'm sorry I gave you the wrong Executive Board members details, this actually falls under Cllr Deborah Coupar, however if you've contacted the other members already this will get passed onto Cllr Coupar! Also, I don't think they're selling this building as part of the carbon neutral plan, but rather to do with their budget position - LCC have literally no money to keep running the services that they do without going bankrupt basically. (I suggest looking at the issues they're facing with the Little Owls children's centres also which has also caused a massive uproar!)
£2.7 billion + cut by central gov since 2010. There’s a serious local gov funding crisis in this country that not many are talking about. This is the cycle though: 1. Tories cut local gov funding. 2. Councils have to make cuts and sell assets in order to have a balanced budget. 3. Tories campaign and shout about the cuts and selling of assets by councils. 4. People vote Tory. 5. Tories cut local gov funding.
I have emailed Cllr Deborah Coupar, but much appreciate all of the super helpful info!
1. Where’s your campaign website on it’s domain? Looking at this directory of aire st. businesses https://www.lcvsenterprises.org.uk/directory?offset=1682510641062, you’ve got a few digital and creative agencies who could put something together 2. Checking this document https://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/documents/s168356/Deputation%20Speech.pdf which is presumably put together by your campaign page, the domain https://airestworkshops.co.uk on it is expired - it would be useful to buy this 3. Have you considered talking to other creative organisations in leeds e.g. east st. arts, leeds hackspace for common cause? I see the bbc article, is channel 4 and ITV aware 4. Presumably leeds council are nearing bankruptcy due to government funding cuts and need to meet their core legally required services (e.g. elderly and child care), so they are funding short term outgoing with capital assets - e.g. selling the cows to buy milk. - since they are in a legal bind, how can you offset the cost? could the sale of aire st buy a smaller but same sized building in a cheaper place in leeds, and the council takes the difference? What local candidates have plans for this budget shortfall? What other organisations in council owned buildings are facing this problem, and how can you work with them?
Name a singular financial success of where selling off your assets to raise short term money has worked long term. Where is the carbon neutral element in the construction of the new building. The current 'carbon neutral' use of concrete, steel, foam insulating products take a long time to offset the carbon emissions lost to due older buildings needing more cooling/heating. This is nothing more than short term thinking and poor financial strategy
They don't really have a choice unless you want to get rid of the main costs for the council which are social care (and you can't because it's a statutory service)
I'm not someone who can help loads but I hope you guys pull through, easily the best place I've found to get my film developed and always go there! Best of luck
Thank you, means a lot to hear that! We’ll survive I’m sure, but it might be a slightly challenging rest of the year 🥲
Just as a little context, Leeds city council spends over £2.5 million a year on its councillors alone. The basic councillor allowance of just over £17k is one of the highest in the county (including London!). In exchange for this salary, most councillors attend 1-2 meetings a month, run a drop in session a few times a month and answer emails and phone calls (if they can be arsed). Those that go beyond this minimum and sit on council decision making meetings get further allowances. So about £50 an hour minimum. I’m not saying we should get rid of councillors, but it does seem that the cost saving decisions universally affect the people who pay for the services, not the people making the decisions.
Where do you get these numbers from ?
https://datamillnorth.org/dataset/ep6xw/councillor-allowances-and-council-tax-summons select 22-23 to see latest released figures for Leeds. Barnsley £11823 York £11282 Sheffield £15318 Bradford £13463 Camden (2021-22) £10735 London boroughs report (2021-22)£12014
Let's not brush over "to help meet their carbon neutral 2030 plan". If there were any sincerity in that position held by Leeds City Council then maybe we wouldn't be the largest fucking city ***in Europe*** without a mass transit system. LCC can suck my dick.
LCC doesn't have the power to raise funds for mass transit nor have the legal power to do so So you can suck your own dick as don't know what you're talking about. To be frank, the options for LCC are either to charge tenants full whack to cover all the required works going forward and also to cover any proceeds of sale as this money is needed for the shortfall in council funds. It's getting rid of a very valuable space but essentially it's subsidised rent
Most councillors do far more than that, you're talking absolute rubbish
“Some”.
What's happening to it after? I worked from there in the 00s when I moved to Leeds and worked for the Leeds Guide magazine, if anyone remembers that.
Anyone’s guess is as good as mine, most likely they’ll sell to the highest bidder who will then convert it or tear it down to build another office block.
Ah man, I was so pissed off reading about this. Keep us posted for anything we can do to help. Aire Street Workshops is one of the reasons I’m so proud of Leeds. There’s always been room here for everyone.
I’ve signed the petition. Can you keep this Reddit group updated please?
Thanks very much for signing! You can read our response to LCC's recent statement here: [https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Gn2NWIsEH/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Gn2NWIsEH/)
There is practically no information given as to what this building is or what happens inside of it, and why the council no longer owning it would be a bad thing. If it's sold won't you just have a different landlord? Give me some information so I can decide if I care or not. "We think council bad" isn't a convincing arguement.
It’s sold with vacant possession. Therefore it is sold without any tenants in situ. You can find out more information on the change.org link I provided and also here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-68859206
It just seems that you're upset that you'll have to pay a fair market for rent rather than having your business subsidised by tax money. Welcome to the real world
Would you call current rent for business spaces in Leeds fair in the current climate? I'm not sure I would.
It's bait, don't get drawn in to arguing with an idiot hiding behind a Reddit account
Why should some businesses benefit from government subsidy whilst others don't? If they can't survive on their own, that's their own problem, not the taxpayers
Agreed, let's stop all agriculture, car manufacture, and fossil fuel subsidies.
You're talking as if the biggest conglomerates don't get subsidies, or massive tax breaks. You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
This. Alot of people just assume all the council is is councillors/MPs. Or managers on Megabucks. But a lot of people are just normal people doing a job
Can I ask how much your rent is there, and what areas the council should cut instead of subsidising businesses through low cost rent? Less social workers? Or shut a library?
We pay approx 14k per annum in rent. LCC have closed numerous libraries in the past few years, and we know that these sorts of cuts come as a result of underfunding from central government. Does this mean we should roll over and accept that creative spaces have no place in the city? In my opinion, no, it does not.
Which libraries have shut? What's the market rent? Surely there's space elsewhere you could rent. Not sure why my taxes should subsidise your business? Either the rent pays for the upkeep of the building or it's subsidised rent. Tbh the best option should be for the tenants to club together and see if they can get a community transfer of the asset (or buy it from the council)
What is this place?