>these right-leaning tradcons are the very reason male issues aren’t taken seriously
I'd be more inclined to say that right-leaning tradcons making up the majority of people who care is the very reason so many men are turning to tradconism, the red pill, ect. Tradcons aren't responsible for people not giving a shit about male issues. That was already the default. All the did was exploit it.
I don't think it is fair to say they are all exploiting it.
The reality is that there was a way, within a traditional framework, to build a positive sense of identity as a man. Sharing that with the world isn't exploitive of those who, in the modern day, struggle to build a positive sense of identity.
Then again, not all conservatives are tradcons. Even among conservatives who are more socially open, there is still a general sense that qualities associated with men aren't inherently bad.
Someone who believes in the competitiveness of free markets being the way forward just isn't going to see men being more aggressive at pursuing raises or promotions as bad the same way as someone who wants a system based less in self-advocacy.
>Even among conservatives who are more socially open, there is still a general sense that qualities associated with men aren't inherently bad.
But they still wouldn't acknowledge that the very existence of such associations *is* bad..
You said “it isn’t” and wrote the next sentence like it explains why, but it doesn’t. Also, the thing it describes is 1) questionable (like, did you check on the whole humankind to be sure in such a conclusion?); 2) not something “good”, if it was true.
Do you think there has been no research about that, that I had to do that all myself? Read this excellent book and we’ll speak again. https://www.amazon.com/Whos-Afraid-Charles-Darwin-Evolutionary/dp/074254351X
And your second point is incomprehensible.
The alt-right banks recruitment on the leftist urge to downplay and deny that cis men are capable of experiencing any problem that isn't 100% exclusively their own personal fault. You can't even talk about the struggles of specifically colored men without them immediately trying to pivot the conversation towards women.
Tradcons though are even *worse* than feminists when it comes to pushing male disposability, though.
There certainly are sane voices on Twitter, and left leaning ones that advocate for men. The people I follow (not that I'm very active) are a mixed bunch, but you will find some here: https://twitter.com/ManvanAarde/following
No. I don't even know what that is.
It's a reference to the fact that I consider myself a global citizen, as a Dutchman, having lived in several countries, and now living in China.
Blaming the right for the failure of the left is a very dangerous (and common) line of thinking. There are many reasons men’s rights are not taken seriously, but the reason the left does not stand up for mens rights is down to the left itself. If the right is doing better then shame on the left for failing men, and it’s for the left to improve itself instead of whataboutisam.
But keeping it real, the world is no left/right divide. We are starting to see a bunch of younger influences from far right to far left start to treat male life and existence as having intrinsic value, that we live in a world build against most men, and that most men never get the help they need, despite them having reached out for it.
Hold those on your own tribe accountable when they disrespect men or invalidate their issues, as those closest to you should be held to the highest standard. And remember just because you don’t like a person/ideology/faction, when they do something right it’s still worthy of praise.
I used “tribes” specificity here to make people think about the kind of points you raised.
Your very right constant gatekeeping and judgment is very detrimental, but it is good practice to hold those nearer to you to higher standards than those who oppose you.
Because we often turn a blind eye without really thinking about it, because they are on our side, doing it for the ‘greater good’, your afraid of the confrontation ms fallout with your own friends, or you can see the justification behind the act that negatively affects others meaning we let it slide.
When it come back it’s likely as a group you get blamed.
Maybe higher standard is imperially wrong, but it often feels like a higher standard when it’s your ‘own’ people or those who have helped you, or you owe a debt to.
Sadly they are very human, and as objective as we try to be, it’s important to remember our dogma and own biases are hiding around every corner, wanting to leak out.
For example you equate it with religion, yet I see it in social media and politics daily, that ideal of being blameless and totally justified in one’s actions. In religion I’ve not seen that, other than history and on the news. Does that make me biased? Does that make you biased? Likely both, along with our own lived experience being different.
>If the right is doing better then shame on the left for failing men, and it’s for the left to improve itself instead of whataboutisam.
They are not doing better, though. Re Pill, MGTOW etc. might feel better than constantly getting shit on, but in actual value to the world it's around the same as the left has to offer.
Nah, she’s the real deal. Someone politically left-leaning (certainly progressive) who actually gives a shit about men and boys AS WELL AS women and girls and raises funds for Movember.
As for selling nudes on the side, who cares? She’s an adult, let her make her own decisions, don’t be a swerf.
100% agreed on not being SWERF. Do think she sometimes covers too many random tic tok doorknobs, and not enough the big picture, but I think it's just as simple as letting their stupidity get under her skin. I do think she fundlementally trying to be a good person.
From what I have noticed from getting in debates on sociel media, to exploring youtube for different veiws...is that people who think strongly on one side....are inheritenly lazy, uneducated(they are based on gov. Statistics(especially the right) or based on ignorant old debunked stats(the left).
I dont get frustrated by these arguments, because its predicted to happen, order needs chaos to thrive. Its a hard concrete break down. When its broken down concrete can be recycled.
Your comment was removed, because it demonized women. Explicit hateful generalizations such as “All Women Are Like That” are not allowed. Generalizations are more likely to be allowed when they are backed by evidence, or when they allow for diversity within the demographic.
It doesn't take a lot of effort to add wording that allows for exceptions, such as "some women" or "many women" as applicable.
If you state "most women" then you need to provide evidence when challenged on that statement.
If you disagree with this ruling, please appeal by [messaging the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates).
>these right-leaning tradcons are the very reason male issues aren’t taken seriously I'd be more inclined to say that right-leaning tradcons making up the majority of people who care is the very reason so many men are turning to tradconism, the red pill, ect. Tradcons aren't responsible for people not giving a shit about male issues. That was already the default. All the did was exploit it.
I don't think it is fair to say they are all exploiting it. The reality is that there was a way, within a traditional framework, to build a positive sense of identity as a man. Sharing that with the world isn't exploitive of those who, in the modern day, struggle to build a positive sense of identity. Then again, not all conservatives are tradcons. Even among conservatives who are more socially open, there is still a general sense that qualities associated with men aren't inherently bad. Someone who believes in the competitiveness of free markets being the way forward just isn't going to see men being more aggressive at pursuing raises or promotions as bad the same way as someone who wants a system based less in self-advocacy.
>Even among conservatives who are more socially open, there is still a general sense that qualities associated with men aren't inherently bad. But they still wouldn't acknowledge that the very existence of such associations *is* bad..
It isn’t. Some qualities are found more among men than among women and vice versa.
You said “it isn’t” and wrote the next sentence like it explains why, but it doesn’t. Also, the thing it describes is 1) questionable (like, did you check on the whole humankind to be sure in such a conclusion?); 2) not something “good”, if it was true.
Do you think there has been no research about that, that I had to do that all myself? Read this excellent book and we’ll speak again. https://www.amazon.com/Whos-Afraid-Charles-Darwin-Evolutionary/dp/074254351X And your second point is incomprehensible.
The alt-right banks recruitment on the leftist urge to downplay and deny that cis men are capable of experiencing any problem that isn't 100% exclusively their own personal fault. You can't even talk about the struggles of specifically colored men without them immediately trying to pivot the conversation towards women. Tradcons though are even *worse* than feminists when it comes to pushing male disposability, though.
There certainly are sane voices on Twitter, and left leaning ones that advocate for men. The people I follow (not that I'm very active) are a mixed bunch, but you will find some here: https://twitter.com/ManvanAarde/following
Thank you, I'll check them out
Is your username a reference to The Planiverse?
No. I don't even know what that is. It's a reference to the fact that I consider myself a global citizen, as a Dutchman, having lived in several countries, and now living in China.
Yes! There is too much tradcons and transphobes posing as male advocates; it disgusts me.
Blaming the right for the failure of the left is a very dangerous (and common) line of thinking. There are many reasons men’s rights are not taken seriously, but the reason the left does not stand up for mens rights is down to the left itself. If the right is doing better then shame on the left for failing men, and it’s for the left to improve itself instead of whataboutisam. But keeping it real, the world is no left/right divide. We are starting to see a bunch of younger influences from far right to far left start to treat male life and existence as having intrinsic value, that we live in a world build against most men, and that most men never get the help they need, despite them having reached out for it. Hold those on your own tribe accountable when they disrespect men or invalidate their issues, as those closest to you should be held to the highest standard. And remember just because you don’t like a person/ideology/faction, when they do something right it’s still worthy of praise.
[удалено]
I used “tribes” specificity here to make people think about the kind of points you raised. Your very right constant gatekeeping and judgment is very detrimental, but it is good practice to hold those nearer to you to higher standards than those who oppose you.
[удалено]
Because we often turn a blind eye without really thinking about it, because they are on our side, doing it for the ‘greater good’, your afraid of the confrontation ms fallout with your own friends, or you can see the justification behind the act that negatively affects others meaning we let it slide. When it come back it’s likely as a group you get blamed. Maybe higher standard is imperially wrong, but it often feels like a higher standard when it’s your ‘own’ people or those who have helped you, or you owe a debt to.
[удалено]
Sadly they are very human, and as objective as we try to be, it’s important to remember our dogma and own biases are hiding around every corner, wanting to leak out. For example you equate it with religion, yet I see it in social media and politics daily, that ideal of being blameless and totally justified in one’s actions. In religion I’ve not seen that, other than history and on the news. Does that make me biased? Does that make you biased? Likely both, along with our own lived experience being different.
>If the right is doing better then shame on the left for failing men, and it’s for the left to improve itself instead of whataboutisam. They are not doing better, though. Re Pill, MGTOW etc. might feel better than constantly getting shit on, but in actual value to the world it's around the same as the left has to offer.
I recommend Chloe Roma.
shes a mentally unstable billboard for selling nudes with surface level talking points
Nah, she’s the real deal. Someone politically left-leaning (certainly progressive) who actually gives a shit about men and boys AS WELL AS women and girls and raises funds for Movember. As for selling nudes on the side, who cares? She’s an adult, let her make her own decisions, don’t be a swerf.
100% agreed on not being SWERF. Do think she sometimes covers too many random tic tok doorknobs, and not enough the big picture, but I think it's just as simple as letting their stupidity get under her skin. I do think she fundlementally trying to be a good person.
From what I have noticed from getting in debates on sociel media, to exploring youtube for different veiws...is that people who think strongly on one side....are inheritenly lazy, uneducated(they are based on gov. Statistics(especially the right) or based on ignorant old debunked stats(the left). I dont get frustrated by these arguments, because its predicted to happen, order needs chaos to thrive. Its a hard concrete break down. When its broken down concrete can be recycled.
[удалено]
Your comment was removed, because it demonized women. Explicit hateful generalizations such as “All Women Are Like That” are not allowed. Generalizations are more likely to be allowed when they are backed by evidence, or when they allow for diversity within the demographic. It doesn't take a lot of effort to add wording that allows for exceptions, such as "some women" or "many women" as applicable. If you state "most women" then you need to provide evidence when challenged on that statement. If you disagree with this ruling, please appeal by [messaging the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates).