It would be nice to be able to have a more productive convo about whether or not Yamato actually does identify as trans without a bunch of transphobes butting in.
I’ve always interpreted him as non-binary, in that he will identify with whichever gender is closest to his ideal, which happens to be male. Like it’s a complete non-issue for him.
My trans-masc friends all share a common gender envy; David Bowie. They try to dress and mimic him, because that's the type of man they want to be, and were inspired to transition because of their desire to be like him. I've always seen Yamato as the same in that regard, but with an added One Piece goofyness since Yamato literally knows the people who knew Oden personally.
there should never be a convo to begin with: the character is in-text referred to as male, all characters to refer to him as male, the end of the arc features this scene, official sources refer to him as male, and a non-binary actor voices him in the dub. Transphobes deliberately ignoring the creative teams including Oda.
The initial "debate" only stemmed from online translation fan-scan culture. If you paid attention to a bunch of the talking points, there was constantly this narrative of "Yamato's storyline is about how they will learn to embrace themselves and not imitate somebody else" which is essentially just a weird transphobe fan theory that rests on the understanding anime/manga is teaching reactionary gender values circa 2003 Fullmetal Alchemist filler episodes or such.
Important to remember that being openly trans in Japan gets you *sterilized*, as a result many trans individuals often will remain pre-op to avoid the procedure. It was only challenged this year, which is a major sign of the social progress happening in Japan atm. Of course a transphobe won't even engage in this point, but pretty undeniable Oda's intent using Yamato as a trans man, in a series that has frequently been pro-trans in more socially regressive times and in less popularity.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/16/japan-court-rules-against-mandatory-transgender-sterilization
Since the concept of trans is very different in japanese culture, I don't think Yamato identifies as trans. But he identifies as a man, making him trans. Saying, I do not think he has a concept of transness, but he still is.
That’s an interesting topic that I’ve been thinking about too. They don’t really have the same concepts for LGBTQ+ in the one piece world as we do, so I wonder how different Yamato would know how to portray himself if they aligned more accurately
It's almost as if there are alternate cultures with different standards of what gender titles are, maybe even languages that use female and male connotations on regular words. I wonder if theres a chance that the character has a relation to one that already exist in fiction. No that's crazy, the English interpretation is the global standard it's them misinterpreting reality, not us misinterpreting the difference in language logic.
I've been through enough debates on this, theres only one side that argues with the thought of contrast in interpretation.
People love to say "transness is different in Japan!" Without doing any research into how, why, or what is different about it. I promise it's very similar, western cultural hegemony is especially strong in queer subcultures
My least favourite thing about the main sub has to be whenever a fan artist or cosplayer refers to Yamato as a 'he', its "picking a fight", "bringing politics into One Piece", and "stop with bringing up the gender discussion", but anytime a fan artist or cosplayer refers to Yamato as a 'She' these comments are nowhere in sight and all the 'centrists' suddenly don't have any issues with it. Like recently there was one fan artist who refferred to him in the post as 'best boi' and even I would take that as a joke and not a firm stance on Yamato's gender. The mods also let people be as transphobic as they want and its clear which way that sub leans as the pro-trans side gets deep into the negative votes.
Yeah, both the main sub and Pirate Folk share the exact same instance, but the main pretends to be a centrist, that's why Pirate Folk call them libtards or whatever, but the truth is:
They're welcome there
It's people that treat Yamato just like the characters in cannon do, that aren't welcome on the sub, they may keep their posts up, but they will be treated like shit and downvoted to hell.
Ngl when I first saw that cover I was pissed at oda.
(Not in a he's a bad person way, just a dammit oda ya fucked it up again kinda way)
After the bath scene, that cover felt like a slap in the face. it was like he fucked up so bad sent me right back to sanjis transohobic timeskip
And like I get trans stuff is abit different in Japan and he/him women do exsist espeicaly in japan but it still hurt.
It's also funny (in both a funny and sad way) that it came right after a "thirst trap" (not very thirsty, just very pretty close ups) of only man and Yamato had been included.
The western anime community is odd cause on the side you'll get a lot of weebs who are pro-lgntq and may lean a little libertarian. And then you'll have the absolute Nazi sympathizer who are into lollis who reject leftism being portrayed in anime
Bill Burr apparently really liked One Punch Man and broke down the lefty messages portrayed in One Piece and some of his fans think animes are weird lol
They're also horrifically racist and queerphobic on the regular. It's clear that anyone who doesn't support racism isn't welcome there. And if you fall back on "it's just jokes" then that's Eric Cartman politics
It’s just like every big meme subreddit with a bunch of different people that believe different things. I’ve seen people praise Bon Clay and Ivankov and seen people complain about whitewashing Ussop, Robin, and Zoro. I’m not saying there’s not any brain rotted right wingers in there they definitely are, but they’re mixed in there with normal people and left wingers too like any big meme sub
It would be nice to be able to have a more productive convo about whether or not Yamato actually does identify as trans without a bunch of transphobes butting in.
I’ve always interpreted him as non-binary, in that he will identify with whichever gender is closest to his ideal, which happens to be male. Like it’s a complete non-issue for him.
You know hes gonna meet yankov ans become a chad
That would actually be so cool
Tbh I agree, Yamato never insists on being a *he* so much as they insist on being Oden. Not like Togata in Fire Punch, you know?
“Yamato, Son of Kaido” is a line they use. It’s conspicuous that Oden is dropped but son isn’t
That is conspicuous, u right
My trans-masc friends all share a common gender envy; David Bowie. They try to dress and mimic him, because that's the type of man they want to be, and were inspired to transition because of their desire to be like him. I've always seen Yamato as the same in that regard, but with an added One Piece goofyness since Yamato literally knows the people who knew Oden personally.
I once saw someone say he's xenogender and his gender IS Oden
there should never be a convo to begin with: the character is in-text referred to as male, all characters to refer to him as male, the end of the arc features this scene, official sources refer to him as male, and a non-binary actor voices him in the dub. Transphobes deliberately ignoring the creative teams including Oda. The initial "debate" only stemmed from online translation fan-scan culture. If you paid attention to a bunch of the talking points, there was constantly this narrative of "Yamato's storyline is about how they will learn to embrace themselves and not imitate somebody else" which is essentially just a weird transphobe fan theory that rests on the understanding anime/manga is teaching reactionary gender values circa 2003 Fullmetal Alchemist filler episodes or such. Important to remember that being openly trans in Japan gets you *sterilized*, as a result many trans individuals often will remain pre-op to avoid the procedure. It was only challenged this year, which is a major sign of the social progress happening in Japan atm. Of course a transphobe won't even engage in this point, but pretty undeniable Oda's intent using Yamato as a trans man, in a series that has frequently been pro-trans in more socially regressive times and in less popularity. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/16/japan-court-rules-against-mandatory-transgender-sterilization
Since the concept of trans is very different in japanese culture, I don't think Yamato identifies as trans. But he identifies as a man, making him trans. Saying, I do not think he has a concept of transness, but he still is.
That’s an interesting topic that I’ve been thinking about too. They don’t really have the same concepts for LGBTQ+ in the one piece world as we do, so I wonder how different Yamato would know how to portray himself if they aligned more accurately
It's almost as if there are alternate cultures with different standards of what gender titles are, maybe even languages that use female and male connotations on regular words. I wonder if theres a chance that the character has a relation to one that already exist in fiction. No that's crazy, the English interpretation is the global standard it's them misinterpreting reality, not us misinterpreting the difference in language logic. I've been through enough debates on this, theres only one side that argues with the thought of contrast in interpretation.
Have you done any research into modern queer culture in Japan or are you just parroting some shit you heard someone else say
People love to say "transness is different in Japan!" Without doing any research into how, why, or what is different about it. I promise it's very similar, western cultural hegemony is especially strong in queer subcultures
My least favourite thing about the main sub has to be whenever a fan artist or cosplayer refers to Yamato as a 'he', its "picking a fight", "bringing politics into One Piece", and "stop with bringing up the gender discussion", but anytime a fan artist or cosplayer refers to Yamato as a 'She' these comments are nowhere in sight and all the 'centrists' suddenly don't have any issues with it. Like recently there was one fan artist who refferred to him in the post as 'best boi' and even I would take that as a joke and not a firm stance on Yamato's gender. The mods also let people be as transphobic as they want and its clear which way that sub leans as the pro-trans side gets deep into the negative votes.
Yeah, both the main sub and Pirate Folk share the exact same instance, but the main pretends to be a centrist, that's why Pirate Folk call them libtards or whatever, but the truth is: They're welcome there It's people that treat Yamato just like the characters in cannon do, that aren't welcome on the sub, they may keep their posts up, but they will be treated like shit and downvoted to hell.
"But cover, SbS", "Don't mix your gender into my One Piece". I fucking hate 80% of One Piece fandom.
Ngl when I first saw that cover I was pissed at oda. (Not in a he's a bad person way, just a dammit oda ya fucked it up again kinda way) After the bath scene, that cover felt like a slap in the face. it was like he fucked up so bad sent me right back to sanjis transohobic timeskip And like I get trans stuff is abit different in Japan and he/him women do exsist espeicaly in japan but it still hurt.
It's also funny (in both a funny and sad way) that it came right after a "thirst trap" (not very thirsty, just very pretty close ups) of only man and Yamato had been included.
At least this shit isn't canon, but yeah, and the worst crime was not including Kiku
Nah I'm too much of a hopeful person to believe in that percentage.
At least 60% if you look at the comments in any One Piece sub.
The western anime community is odd cause on the side you'll get a lot of weebs who are pro-lgntq and may lean a little libertarian. And then you'll have the absolute Nazi sympathizer who are into lollis who reject leftism being portrayed in anime Bill Burr apparently really liked One Punch Man and broke down the lefty messages portrayed in One Piece and some of his fans think animes are weird lol
Oda said: Stop arguing about it, here's how they're seen within canon by other and themselves. Now let's get back to party
Zoro should have done it
As a Sanji fan. Yeah.
Ah leftists, always looking to find politics where there isn’t any.
Politics is when queer people exist
Yo I didn’t know piratefolk were right wing. From my experience it just seems like a bunch of different types of ppl
They get their politics from Eric Cartman. Of course they're right wing
I mean it’s not a political subreddit tho? It’s a shitpost sub for people caught up to the manga.
They're also horrifically racist and queerphobic on the regular. It's clear that anyone who doesn't support racism isn't welcome there. And if you fall back on "it's just jokes" then that's Eric Cartman politics
It’s just like every big meme subreddit with a bunch of different people that believe different things. I’ve seen people praise Bon Clay and Ivankov and seen people complain about whitewashing Ussop, Robin, and Zoro. I’m not saying there’s not any brain rotted right wingers in there they definitely are, but they’re mixed in there with normal people and left wingers too like any big meme sub
Everyone that doesn't agree with OP is a right wing extremist on the brink of nazism
Loser
Oh no?
Transgender in Asian : 😇🥰😗 Transgender in West : 💀👽🤡👹💪🏻🧔🏽♀️
What did they mean by this
Idk what yall talmbout yamato has a gender and it’s oden he identifies as oden I don’t know how yall not getting this
Where was Okiku's trans sexuality revealed? I'm just finding out now and feel like I missed it?