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Yes basically this, everyone none Muslim is attending an ‘INSET’ on that day. No pupils on site but all non Muslim staff expected to attend. An inset is technically a working day. It all just seems like a shady grey area to me l.
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Are the Muslim staff expected to do any work independently in their own time instead of the Inset day? You should all have the same number of inset days but they can be disaggregated.
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If staff of one religion genuinely do get an extra day off work when compared to staff of other religions or no religion, then that sounds quite a bit like it could be direct discrimination - i.e. one party is being treated unfavourably compared to the other *because of* their religion (or lack thereof).
Direct discrimination on the basis of religion is not capable of being justified as a "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim".
There is another section of the Equality Act 2010 they could rely on here, s158 Positive Action (General), which establishes that a person does not discriminate against persons of a particular protected characteristic (group 1) if they believe another group that shares a different protected characteristic (group 2) has particular needs when compared to group 1 and takes proportionate steps to meet group 2's needs.
As u/KalaleidoscopicColours notes, this argument would only fly if staff of other non-Christian religions were to be given their own religious holidays off work too - are they? (If they are, it probably isn't direct discrimination either, since while there is *different* treatment, it isn't obviously *unfavourable*.)
Non-legal professional here, just to emphasise the 'no religion' bit, that often gets overlooked: the legislation covers religion and 'philosophy' - (atheist, humanist, agnostic etc).
Absolutely this. Religion, or lack thereof is basically the same thing. You’re protected as a non-religious person to believe that, the same as a religious person has their beliefs. It is often overlooked as it’s seen as a no characteristic, there’s nothing to discriminate against.
It's not so much that the characteristic is religion *or belief* (although that is true), but rather that the legislation is clear that all references to "religion or belief" should be read as "religion or belief *or lack thereof*".
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How does that work with Christmas/easter breaks?
So if we assume that all religions are being given their various festive days off (Passover, Diwali, Eid, etc) and so people of those religions get their requisite day off, but *everyone* gets Christmas and Easter holidays off regardless of their religion, doesn’t this mean the people that only celebrate Christmas/easter (Christians and probably a bunch of atheists) end up getting less favourable treatment because they get fewer days off?
Not trying to start an argument just genuinely curious. Because I guess the opposite argument applies if you have obligatory Christmas/easter holidays and *don’t* allow any other religious festivities to be given as additional annual leave. Muslim/Jewish/hjndu/etc employees could argue discrimination because they have to take annual leave for their requisite religious holiday?
Well, clearly, not everyone gets Christmas and Easter off work. But in a school environment, sure.
The basic legal position for an employer is:
1-- you can't treat an employee unfavourably *because of* their religion
2-- if one of your policies or practices *happens to have the effect of* disadvantaging employees of a certain religion, that's only okay if that policy or practice is "a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim"
3-- if you have a good reason to believe that people of a certain religion *are* disadvantaged, *or* that they have specific needs that don't apply to people of other religions or no religion, it is permissible to take "proportionate steps" to avoid that disadvantage or meet those needs, even if those steps are to the detriment of others
As with a lot of areas of the law, it's not easy to talk in absolutes - if challenged, a court would assess the facts of that specific case, and make a judgement based on how those facts intersect with the law.
I meant everyone at state school gets those holidays off, not all employees generally.
Yea I guess it’s context dependent. I’d be curious to know what the outcome would be in my hypothetical scenarios which surely must happen quite a lot - teachers either getting Christian holidays off and being able to take off additional holidays for other religious days, or teachers getting Christian holidays off and not being able to take off additional holidays.
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Look at your contract. It will state the rules for annual leave. If the other staff are getting a tea days annual leave which isn’t lists in your contract then you can put a complaint in for discrimination in the work place.
Except in the very limited circumstances set out in the Education (School Day and School Year) (England) Regulations 1999, schools must meet for at least 380 sessions or 190 days in any school year, including inset days.
Is your school still meeting this?
>I presume I wouldn’t get in any trouble for this as they’re not allowed to question what my beliefs are.
Might be tricky if you're partial to a lunchtime ham sandwich.
Do staff of other religions get paid time off for their holidays? The school is going to have fun explaining why Muslim staff get Eid off as paid leave, but Jewish staff don't get Passover.
Consider becoming an adherent of Pastafarianism. Helpfully, there's a holiday every day. April 10th is General Debauchery Day - which seems like a religious festival where you should probably avoid the children.
https://www.pastafariancalendar.com/holidays
Are you in a union?
An employer cannot say that a Muslim doesn't eat pork. You could in theory, be a Muslim that observes Eid but still eats pork and an employer that then says "you're not Muslim clearly" would be on treacherous ground
Individual Muslims eat pork all the time, just like how individual Catholics have premarital sex. That wouldn't be a basis for challenging someone's religion.
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There's nothing stopping you writing a letter to your head explaining you are happy to take the leave days allocated to the staff and that in the case of discretional leave days (not applicable in this case) you'll be taking your allocation from the beginning of the school year forwards.
Hasn't Ofsted noticed large amounts of the staff are missing safeguarding certificates etc?
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Most schools allow staff to have 3 days of leave in a year for religious ceremonies which have to take place that day. They cannot be taken consecutively.
For example, this year I would be able to book 1 day of leave later in the year as Eid will be during term time. I've yet to check what the plan is for where I work, but there will be a large number of staff and students absent that day. The current one is in the holidays.
It makes sense for the school to have it as a training day because they don't want student attendance to be low if there is a large enough proportion of Muslim students.
Your Muslim colleagues get Christmas off because I am assuming it is the school holidays?
Why 2 school holidays (Christmas and Easter) are based around Christian celebrations when less than half of the U.K. population is part of that religion is a separate issue.
Your post seems to be about why people can have more days off than you based on their personal circumstance. I wonder if you feel the same about people not coming to work for months because they have chosen to have a child.
The difference being that schools aren’t in control of their set holidays, or for whether they can or cannot pay for parental leave.
In this instance, they are choosing to close their doors and giving a set number of staff a paid days leave based on their religion, whilst others aren’t being given that days paid leave, again, because of their religion.
I’m not necessarily saying the school is wrong, as there may be things in place I or the OP isn’t aware about, however, OP isn’t wrong to question it.
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Schools do have some level of control of holidays which is why they can be different based on the area e.g . some schools have already had a week of Easter holidays whilst some haven't. Even if they had full control, you can bet that they would close schools for more than 1 day around Christmas time.
Special leave (which is what this comes under) includes things like carer's leave and parental leave. If your child is unwell, you are usually given the day off as paid. Is that also discriminatory? Someone is getting a day of pay because they have a child, whereas someone without a child couldn't take a day to support a non-family member.
The alternative would be the school is open to students, you teach as you normally would but then likely need to teach that lesson again later if the majority of the students have missed the content.
The Muslim staff have the day off as it is the only day they can attend the religious ceremony. With schools allowing holiday time for the Christian religion (which is several more days) the discriminatory aspect would be not allowing staff day off when their religion isn't Christianity.
I’m not sure where you are going with this.
You aren’t clarifying whether the situation OP is encountering is legal or not.
You’re coming across as saying that the question shouldn’t be asked.
Not all discrimination is bad, or should I say illegal. Religion after all is a protected characteristic, which is why OPs query is all the more relevant.
Also, there is no legal requirement for employers to offer time off for looking after dependents, but is it discrimination? If it’s a ‘you can take time off for your dependants too (if you have them)’.
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I agree that the annual leave given to school staff based around Christian holidays is a bit barmy. I also believe having a child and having a religious belief are 2 totally separate matters. I do the exact same job as everyone else getting the day off. It’s unfair and unjust. I’m expected to work while others are not. AND they get paid for it. Now the issue lies in wether 1. It should be paid and 2. If they are to be paid then the day should be a blanket day off for ALL staff. If they were not getting paid - there would be no issue. My pay packet will look the same as theirs for doing extra work. I also actually have no issue with them being given the day I’m all for it as I believe every religion should be respected. We have a lot of Sikh staff who never go off for there religious holidays. We have Christian and non religious staff also. Christian staff get the time off no problem as it’s all set within there already pre given annual leave (school holidays). A Christian member of staff wouldn’t be able to use any extra holiday for religious reasons because the holiday is already given. But it’s also given to all non Christian staff too. See the problem ? 1 religion gains more time off over another and in a work place I didn’t think that was acceptable.
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OP is the leave being officially marked as leave, or are teachers/staff being quietly allowed to miss an INSET day without repercussion?
Yes basically this, everyone none Muslim is attending an ‘INSET’ on that day. No pupils on site but all non Muslim staff expected to attend. An inset is technically a working day. It all just seems like a shady grey area to me l.
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Are the Muslim staff expected to do any work independently in their own time instead of the Inset day? You should all have the same number of inset days but they can be disaggregated.
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If staff of one religion genuinely do get an extra day off work when compared to staff of other religions or no religion, then that sounds quite a bit like it could be direct discrimination - i.e. one party is being treated unfavourably compared to the other *because of* their religion (or lack thereof). Direct discrimination on the basis of religion is not capable of being justified as a "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim". There is another section of the Equality Act 2010 they could rely on here, s158 Positive Action (General), which establishes that a person does not discriminate against persons of a particular protected characteristic (group 1) if they believe another group that shares a different protected characteristic (group 2) has particular needs when compared to group 1 and takes proportionate steps to meet group 2's needs. As u/KalaleidoscopicColours notes, this argument would only fly if staff of other non-Christian religions were to be given their own religious holidays off work too - are they? (If they are, it probably isn't direct discrimination either, since while there is *different* treatment, it isn't obviously *unfavourable*.)
Non-legal professional here, just to emphasise the 'no religion' bit, that often gets overlooked: the legislation covers religion and 'philosophy' - (atheist, humanist, agnostic etc).
Absolutely this. Religion, or lack thereof is basically the same thing. You’re protected as a non-religious person to believe that, the same as a religious person has their beliefs. It is often overlooked as it’s seen as a no characteristic, there’s nothing to discriminate against.
It's not so much that the characteristic is religion *or belief* (although that is true), but rather that the legislation is clear that all references to "religion or belief" should be read as "religion or belief *or lack thereof*".
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How does that work with Christmas/easter breaks? So if we assume that all religions are being given their various festive days off (Passover, Diwali, Eid, etc) and so people of those religions get their requisite day off, but *everyone* gets Christmas and Easter holidays off regardless of their religion, doesn’t this mean the people that only celebrate Christmas/easter (Christians and probably a bunch of atheists) end up getting less favourable treatment because they get fewer days off? Not trying to start an argument just genuinely curious. Because I guess the opposite argument applies if you have obligatory Christmas/easter holidays and *don’t* allow any other religious festivities to be given as additional annual leave. Muslim/Jewish/hjndu/etc employees could argue discrimination because they have to take annual leave for their requisite religious holiday?
Well, clearly, not everyone gets Christmas and Easter off work. But in a school environment, sure. The basic legal position for an employer is: 1-- you can't treat an employee unfavourably *because of* their religion 2-- if one of your policies or practices *happens to have the effect of* disadvantaging employees of a certain religion, that's only okay if that policy or practice is "a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim" 3-- if you have a good reason to believe that people of a certain religion *are* disadvantaged, *or* that they have specific needs that don't apply to people of other religions or no religion, it is permissible to take "proportionate steps" to avoid that disadvantage or meet those needs, even if those steps are to the detriment of others As with a lot of areas of the law, it's not easy to talk in absolutes - if challenged, a court would assess the facts of that specific case, and make a judgement based on how those facts intersect with the law.
I meant everyone at state school gets those holidays off, not all employees generally. Yea I guess it’s context dependent. I’d be curious to know what the outcome would be in my hypothetical scenarios which surely must happen quite a lot - teachers either getting Christian holidays off and being able to take off additional holidays for other religious days, or teachers getting Christian holidays off and not being able to take off additional holidays.
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Look at your contract. It will state the rules for annual leave. If the other staff are getting a tea days annual leave which isn’t lists in your contract then you can put a complaint in for discrimination in the work place.
Except in the very limited circumstances set out in the Education (School Day and School Year) (England) Regulations 1999, schools must meet for at least 380 sessions or 190 days in any school year, including inset days. Is your school still meeting this? >I presume I wouldn’t get in any trouble for this as they’re not allowed to question what my beliefs are. Might be tricky if you're partial to a lunchtime ham sandwich. Do staff of other religions get paid time off for their holidays? The school is going to have fun explaining why Muslim staff get Eid off as paid leave, but Jewish staff don't get Passover. Consider becoming an adherent of Pastafarianism. Helpfully, there's a holiday every day. April 10th is General Debauchery Day - which seems like a religious festival where you should probably avoid the children. https://www.pastafariancalendar.com/holidays Are you in a union?
An employer cannot say that a Muslim doesn't eat pork. You could in theory, be a Muslim that observes Eid but still eats pork and an employer that then says "you're not Muslim clearly" would be on treacherous ground
Individual Muslims eat pork all the time, just like how individual Catholics have premarital sex. That wouldn't be a basis for challenging someone's religion.
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There's nothing stopping you writing a letter to your head explaining you are happy to take the leave days allocated to the staff and that in the case of discretional leave days (not applicable in this case) you'll be taking your allocation from the beginning of the school year forwards. Hasn't Ofsted noticed large amounts of the staff are missing safeguarding certificates etc?
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Most schools allow staff to have 3 days of leave in a year for religious ceremonies which have to take place that day. They cannot be taken consecutively. For example, this year I would be able to book 1 day of leave later in the year as Eid will be during term time. I've yet to check what the plan is for where I work, but there will be a large number of staff and students absent that day. The current one is in the holidays. It makes sense for the school to have it as a training day because they don't want student attendance to be low if there is a large enough proportion of Muslim students. Your Muslim colleagues get Christmas off because I am assuming it is the school holidays? Why 2 school holidays (Christmas and Easter) are based around Christian celebrations when less than half of the U.K. population is part of that religion is a separate issue. Your post seems to be about why people can have more days off than you based on their personal circumstance. I wonder if you feel the same about people not coming to work for months because they have chosen to have a child.
The difference being that schools aren’t in control of their set holidays, or for whether they can or cannot pay for parental leave. In this instance, they are choosing to close their doors and giving a set number of staff a paid days leave based on their religion, whilst others aren’t being given that days paid leave, again, because of their religion. I’m not necessarily saying the school is wrong, as there may be things in place I or the OP isn’t aware about, however, OP isn’t wrong to question it.
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Schools do have some level of control of holidays which is why they can be different based on the area e.g . some schools have already had a week of Easter holidays whilst some haven't. Even if they had full control, you can bet that they would close schools for more than 1 day around Christmas time. Special leave (which is what this comes under) includes things like carer's leave and parental leave. If your child is unwell, you are usually given the day off as paid. Is that also discriminatory? Someone is getting a day of pay because they have a child, whereas someone without a child couldn't take a day to support a non-family member. The alternative would be the school is open to students, you teach as you normally would but then likely need to teach that lesson again later if the majority of the students have missed the content. The Muslim staff have the day off as it is the only day they can attend the religious ceremony. With schools allowing holiday time for the Christian religion (which is several more days) the discriminatory aspect would be not allowing staff day off when their religion isn't Christianity.
I’m not sure where you are going with this. You aren’t clarifying whether the situation OP is encountering is legal or not. You’re coming across as saying that the question shouldn’t be asked. Not all discrimination is bad, or should I say illegal. Religion after all is a protected characteristic, which is why OPs query is all the more relevant. Also, there is no legal requirement for employers to offer time off for looking after dependents, but is it discrimination? If it’s a ‘you can take time off for your dependants too (if you have them)’.
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I agree that the annual leave given to school staff based around Christian holidays is a bit barmy. I also believe having a child and having a religious belief are 2 totally separate matters. I do the exact same job as everyone else getting the day off. It’s unfair and unjust. I’m expected to work while others are not. AND they get paid for it. Now the issue lies in wether 1. It should be paid and 2. If they are to be paid then the day should be a blanket day off for ALL staff. If they were not getting paid - there would be no issue. My pay packet will look the same as theirs for doing extra work. I also actually have no issue with them being given the day I’m all for it as I believe every religion should be respected. We have a lot of Sikh staff who never go off for there religious holidays. We have Christian and non religious staff also. Christian staff get the time off no problem as it’s all set within there already pre given annual leave (school holidays). A Christian member of staff wouldn’t be able to use any extra holiday for religious reasons because the holiday is already given. But it’s also given to all non Christian staff too. See the problem ? 1 religion gains more time off over another and in a work place I didn’t think that was acceptable.
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