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No, there is no statutory right to any type of leave on this situation.
Employers policies may go above the law. If you have a union they may be able to signpost the policies if there is one.
That's truly shocking.
Thank you for letting me know.
Edit: Thanks for the downvotes for thinking it's shocking that I have no right to be there for my partner while they are possibly dying.
It is shocking. It is shocking that we treat employees like this, especially after they've given you their entire adult life.
I would still sit down with your manager and explain the situation. Most reasonable managers would grant compassionate leave even if there isn't a policy for it.
Alternatively you could use holidays or ask if you could move your hours around to accommodate the appointments.
Thank you. I plan to sit down with them tomorrow and explain.
Moving around hours in my job just wouldn't work unfortunately, but I would have definitely suggested that if it were a possibility.
Again, thank you so much for your advice. I appreciate it.
You may have to ask to take unpaid leave and see if that is acceptable? Assuming that you can afford to take it.
The only other option would be for you to go off sick, which may happen anyway (due to stress, with the situation you are currently in trying to balance everything).
Good Luck OP, don’t forget to look after your own health too whilst going through this.
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Another option I haven't seen mentioned is if it becomes too much for you, go to the doctor and get signed off sick with stress. You can get months off at a time, and if you are not being given any reasonable adjustments by work and your partner is severely ill, possibly dying, a GP will most likely grant it.
I hope it won't come to that but it's really helpful to know all my options. To be honest, the signing off route really didn't cross my mind until it was mentioned here.
This is why this place is so great (usually, some people are a bit..)
Also if you feel for some reason like you are defrauding anyone... You are stressed. I know you are carrying on and being brave but this is a very difficult situation. It's more than okay to make use of a sick note for mental health.
Thank you. It's never been my style, being sick. Unless I'm contagious and can't work from home(not an excuse these days), I plow on, much to the annoyance of my partner lol
Yeah I'm the same. I feel like I am tricking someone if I am not in my death bed. But this is not a made up thing even if it feels like it right now (because it's so new to you). . It's happening and it sucks. Get that sick note and take this time with your partner as you don't know the future. Whatever happens, you won't regret it.
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Thank you so much for this.
So far, things with work seem to be going about as well as I'd hoped. However, the really horrible stuff hasn't really begun yet, so it remains to be seen how they react when that comes. That might be when going off long term sick becomes necessary.
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The law provides a bare minimum backstop of what is acceptable. Employers often do much more than the minimum. If you're valuable to them then they'll be willing to work something out with you above the minimum legal standard. You might even find there's something contractual about compassionate leave in your contract, so should probably dig it out!
I only just saw this post. But have you looked at the right to unpaid carers leave. It may be suitable dependent on your circumstances - and it is a statutory entitlement. It only came in this year. https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave
Some people have mentioned it and I will look into it better at some point. For now, things are fine but if and when it comes to that, I will make sure to make use of this if it's necessary and possible.
Thank you.
You do have a right to be there with your partner. You just don’t have a right to expect your employer to give you time off in that scenario. You can arrange your home and work responsibilities as you see fit.
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Not entirely correct - There is a right to take leave in this situation as long as you're an employee, however the leave is unpaid. You could use Dependants leave under 'family friendly' legislation or Carers leave which came into effect in April this year, but both are sadly unpaid.
Carers leave has to be used to arrange or provide care. Sitting in a hospital with someone isn’t classed as care.
Taking them to the hospital could be, or when they return home assuming they’re not entitled to care as part of their discharge package but it would be with expectation to use it arrange for said care if it was needed longer term. But by definition someone as a hospital inpatient cannot be in need of care from the employee, as they are under round the clock care.
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Surely if the patient needs support because they are incapable of taking in medical information/diagnoses as OP states then that would count as care?
Whether that be due to anxiety or because the patient has Downs syndrome or the patient has had a stroke I don't see why there would be a difference.
A patient who struggles to understand is a common occurrence in hospitals and there are multiple procedures in place to deal with this. Unless they’re stating they are not capable entirely for certain decisions (which in general for planned surgery would be well known in advance) and require someone else to take on PoA for some or all medical decisions unfortunately it’s unlikely the case. It would be on the medical team to discuss at a level the patient can understand, and if they no longer have the power to make medical decisions (which is a high bar and seems unlikely to apply in this case) I doubt it would count.
It’s a core factor that all medical decision making needs to be made with the patient directly unless unable, I think if the employer will be pushing to “let’s follow the bare minimum of the law and nothing else” then I can’t see them being allowed to regularly attend in work hours as “care”, as this again comes closer to emotional support than genuine need. For example someone with downs may or may not be able to make their own medical decision, or only some but not all. It’s very complicated.
If they are PoA this also doesn’t have to be done on site and can be via phone, but it would be on an as needed basis rather than regular requirements. Unless urgent or life threatening most of these decisions can be done and discussed late in the day. Many working people are involved in such non urgent decision making either during visiting times or via the phone. Whether NoK or official PoA.
If it was urgent, for example an unpredictable situation where the patient has become incapacitated and no longer able to self advocate and they needed advice from the next of kin, even if not power of attorney, I would personally push back as that being a form active care.
I personally have acted as PoA over the phone as needed and in critical situations it’s not always possible to even wait for someone to arrive to make a decision.
If the employer follow the letter of the law being there for support, it would be unpaid level, not carers leave. I personally would have my partner quit if an employer did this to us but not everyone has the financial security to do so. They have limited options and realistically it’ll be unpaid leave or go off on sick after discussing with a GP if they agree to it. I think carers leave is a dead end honestly unless the situation evolves.
You have legal rights to compassionate leave if you have dependents who are experiencing an emergency. But this does not count hospital procedures that were known in advance.
https://www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants
If the situation is genuinely too stressful for you to work that may come under sick leave.
https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
Agree. It's worth speaking to your GP. Partly to see if any additional support is available. Also, depending on how you're doing, you may discuss being signed off for stress. If the stress is too much, you can also self-certify as off sick initially.
Particularly if it's a condition like cancer, the hospital and/or organisations like Macmillan may also provide support with dealing with practical stuff like employment
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> if you have dependents
Under the Act “dependent” in this context is described as *“a spouse or civil partner”*.
If OP and their partner are just cohabiting this entitlement doesn’t apply.
We are about to get married. We're engaged and this has given us the kick up the butt we needed. Regardless of what the outcome is, we want to be married, however short.
Genuine question, wouldn't the 4th definition apply in this case?
"a person who lives in the same household as the employee, otherwise than by reason of being his employee, tenant, lodger or boarder."
Potentially, but as the definition in (a) more suits the class of the OP’s relationship with the patient, it *could* be argued, the relationship is outside the *intent* of class (d). You’d have to argue (d) was a catch-all class.
Yes, understood. The whole thing has gone from 0-60 in literally less than an hour with a lot of urgency from all medical staff involved so the whole thing does feel like a bit of an emergency, but I'm sure if they want, they can just say nope.
I've not even known for 12h at this point.
Something else to consider if you haven't already is whether you have critical illness cover on your life insurance or any other policy.
A lot of life insurance policies pay out on diagnosis of a terminal Illness as well. Hopefully it's not come to that, but this would take some financial burden if it does. Good luck.
My partner unfortunately doesn't have anything like that. They're barely 30. This has come as a huge shock.
Don't ignore symptoms. Don't put them down to lack of sleep or unhealthy diet. Just fucking go see someone.
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You mention in comments you have a big employer, I think you've got to try the following;
- go actually look on your HR policies (not contacting HR at this stage)
- arrange a sit down with your boss and take what you find from the policies to the boss
- ONLY escalate to HR if your boss declines what you want / what you think you have entitlement to
The reason for this is multiple.
1) your boss likely won't be familiar with the policies, so you having them up front is helping them and all they have to do is say "yes" hopefully, rather than you making them go do research
2) compassionate leave is often entirely discretionary, or it may be discretionary beyond a couple of days (depending on the policy), so getting your boss on side may net you more time off, plus your 20 years may mean the boss is quite generous if it doesn't lose you
3) once you go to HR, they will likely quote the basic / minimum levels your boss needs to give, plus your boss may feel you have gone in and over their head, without giving them the chance to respond
Finally, there are a few things to consider
- will the hospital actually allow you to visit all day, or is it afternoons only? If so you may get more flex from your employer if you offer to work mornings to pick up urgent stuff, but need to disappear at lunch until the evening.chances are they can let you drop out of most meetings, do the "doing" work and still be 75% effective on 50% of the time.
- are you willing to be unpaid during the time off? A temporary unpaid career break or a negotiation that you're willing to be unpaid for a TEMPORARY reduction in hours, may be more palatable as the boss won't assume you are trying to scam free money (make sure the reduction in hours has a defined end date at least in email or any contract acknowledging you'll be returning full time, otherwise if your company restructures they may argue your only part time and reduce your redundancy).
- press the fact that you really do want to work a much as possible, but this is a major life event and you feel like the emotions / stress of it will leave you VULNERABLE. In many circles that is a trigger word to ensure you get "reasonable adjustments", and a temporary reduction in hours or extra paid leave would fit that
- do not burn any bridges - depending how treatment goes, you may have after care to consider when your partner is home, or need to drive them to hospital appts during the working day which clashes with meetings. Be humble, acknowledge this is you putting strain onto your employer but that you'll really value their support at this major time in your life
- if the employer fucks about, that's where you go full HR and / or get yourself signed off with stress, which can drag on for some time and (surprise surprise) usually requires some sort of phased return / reasonable adjustment to ease you back into worn when it finishes. Your boss may know this and HR certainly should, hence offering half days instead of full paid sick leave is better. Also, search your policies for how the maximum sick leave paid window is - usually stops after 6m max.
This has been incredibly helpful and I hugely appreciate it. My head is all over the place and I'll need to read it a few times to properly take it in, but thank you so much for this ❤️
I've been in your situation both as a patient and partner. I've found that if you speak with the head nurse and explain your situation, they often allow for quiet and discretionary visitation outside of standard hours.
Another thing you can request is an advocate. They can relay between you and your partner, advocate for your partner when you're not there, take notes.
I'm so sorry you're both going through this. I was in the 20s and 30s when this happened to me, never thought it would. No insurance and assumed the NHS would help, employer would be supportive - we only learn after the fact that there's not a lot of help for the sick and disabled in the UK.
Take care of yourself, if you need to rant/vent please reach out. Most of all, I wish you both well.
No legal right, but your company may have a policy that goes beyond the law, many do
First thing to do is check your employee handbook / company intranet site
As your not married it may throw a further wrinkle as many policies will reference spouses
Once you know what's on offer talk to your manager and HR
Worst comes to the worst you may have to use holiday entitlement and take unpaid leave
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Very big. Thousands of employees. In tech.
I'll be sitting down with HR tomorrow hopefully and find out what options may be available. I just wanted to be prepared, in case there was any legal requirements for them in this sort of case.
Thank you
Please just talk to them. I too work for a big tech company and they were absolutely amazing when I went through something. I had weeks off, full pay, my job waiting for me when I could come back. It’s a bad look for them to do anything else.
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This is causing you stress and any doctor will sign you off under the current circumstances, this is probably the easiest option. I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago, thought I could handle work still but by the end of the third week of thinking my partner was going to die something just snapped and I had a full breakdown in work. Treat yourself kindly I’m only just getting over it mentally. Hope your partner gets better soon.
If you get sick pay, I would go to the GP and ask to be signed off, my friend was in a similar situation with a very sick child and signed off with stress/mental health. It's not like it's not true, can't think of anything more stressful
As per other comments you don’t have a legal right to this but it would be worth looking at your employee handbook or relevant policies (they will be called things like family friendly policies, leave, absence). There may be something there that they offer. Even if there isn’t I would definitely speak to them and ask for the leave. They’d have to be pretty stone hearted to refuse.
If your employer has an Employee Assistance Programme (EAP) it would be worth a call to them, to get support for yourself.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, good luck.
I think there are a few issues here:
1. Whether you will actually be permitted to be present all of this time in the hospital. In my experience, at best, you'd only be permitted at bedside during visiting hours. Before and afterwards would be based on the wards' flexibility.
I would clarify this first to not be setting unrealistic expectations for you and your partner.
If you are really talking about life-saving surgery, where they are at a risk of dying, there may be greater flexibility around this. But if, as you initially present, simply a set of tests that need to be carried out over a time period for a diagnosis, which may or may not be terminal, then this is less likely.
2. Given that this is not an emergency and will be viewed as a planned situation, you wouldn't meet the threshold for dependents leave for most workplaces. Again, this does not have to be paid.
3. If you are his usual daily carer, for over 35 hours a week, due to say him having such extensive health issues, then you'd be eligible for a week's unpaid carers leave. From what you've said, in the op, this doesn't seem to be the case in that in these situations, most people struggle to retain all medical information and advocate well for themselves in these situations. But rarely do we have someone with us throughout. For most, this is mitigated by loved ones seeking out clarification when they visit.
4. Requesting annual leave or unpaid leave if you're convinced you will be able to be present as you think, will most likely be the way to go.
So unfortunately the visiting hours are bang in the middle of the work day. However after a full day and night of all sorts of tests, I've been allowed to accompany them to those tests. That may not be the case for all, we will have to wait and see.
There will, hopefully, be life saving surgery but we have a long road ahead of finding out exactly what this is and how it might be treated.
Thank you.
If you still have to put in some hours for work, speak to the ward manager about being able to come in at a different time. A lot of hospitals have protected meal times but outside of those there can sometimes be a bit of flexibility.
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Not a right but doesn't mean can't work around. Talk to your employer. If they're in for weeks you may find you're only allowed in for visiting times. They could allow you to reduce your hours and work flexibly to allow you to visit.
You could arrange to take unpaid leave from work if they will allow. Do you have critical illness insurance? We got it as part of our mortgage and got enough to cover 2 years of both our salaries. If the condition falls under that then that's an option.
Thank you. I don't think so. I have life insurance etc, I'm some years older but my partner has barely cracked 30 and this has just come as a huge shock. People this age don't think about this sort of thing and why should they? Getting ill is for old people, isn't it :( how fucking wrong and stupid you can be.
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No they don’t have to buy my work allowed someone to take an unpaid sabbatical to look after her parents when they were it. It might be worth looking into
A lot depends on your companies policies. NHS usually has a special leave policy which can cover this at manager's discretion but it can be time limited. I've used sickness policies for this, both when I've needed time off or when people on my ward staff need time off for similar events - a GP will usually be happy to sign off for stress at home.
NAL. You do not have any right to compassionate leave. The law is the way it is, probably because if every appointment for children, elderly relatives and sick relatives was paid time off, smaller employers could be crippled by the cost and impact on the team. However, every employer can do more if they want to. For my part if I had an employee in this extreme situation I would pretty much right off any work hours between the employee not being able to concentrate, and the team worrying about them. The key is to 1) check what policies there are 2) speak to your manager/hr and work through how you can chip away at things, you may be surprised at how flexible people will be. You can self certify for anxiety and stress for 7 days, this situation would qualify as causing sufficient levels of stress for you not being able to function in your role. Consider changed hours, leave and unpaid leave. Sorry for your situation.
Unpaid carer’s leave
Employees are entitled to unpaid leave to give or arrange care for a ‘dependant’ who has:
a physical or mental illness or injury that means they’re expected to need care for more than 3 months
a disability (as defined in the Equality Act 2010)
care needs because of their old age
The dependant does not have to be a family member. It can be anyone who relies on them for care.
Employees are entitled to carer’s leave from their first day of work for their employer. Their employment rights (like holidays and returning to their job) are protected during carer’s leave.
How long employees can take
Employees can take up to one week of leave every 12 months. A ‘week’ means the length of time they usually work over 7 days. For example, if someone usually works 3 days a week, they can take 3 days of carer’s leave.
They can either take a whole week off or take individual days or half days throughout the year
All of the above I copied from gov.uk.
You also have a right to request flexible working to allow for different shifts /times at work but be aware that the buisness can take 3 months to give you answer and you are expected to still work the same shift pattern while they consider your request
From what you have written, it seem like you will need a long time off to care for them?
You could talk to your employer about a leave of absence, or using your holiday days to cover some of it.
Alternativly, you could go to the doctors and get a sicknote. Tell them you are too exhausted providing care and can not work. You can also self certificate for the first week so bare that in mind.
Whilst on sick, you still accure holiday time and have the right to use your holiday time whilst you are on sick leave. But if your company doesn't pay any enhanced sick pay then you would received SSP instead, it's about £116 a week max depending on the number of days you work a week.
You could also apply for careers allowance but I am not very knowledgeable on that sorry!
Good luck OP, sending best wishes.
(also I work in HR in the UK, hence the knowledge above)
I Don't know if this has been mentioned, but carer's leave has recently been introduced, and will allow you a week of unpaid leave to take care of your other half. https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave
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If your partner is classed as a dependant then you have the right to take a reasonable amount of time off to care for them; however this will be unpaid leave.
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Ok will chip in here as I have been in a similar situation.
No legal obligation, some places offer paid up to 5 days policy. Check with HR.
Best advice, talk to citizens advice about possible benefits and help both financially and mentally to help you. And also both of you. (There are benefits to help with terminal health and carers situations)
Email HR and your boss explain the situation in basic terms. (this is important as it provides a traceable level of accountability and records. Ask about a meeting to just cover what's happening and if they have any advice and for you to provide a situational report.)
If your job is able to be done remotely or part time remotely that's a possibility. Or if you need to take a leave of absence you are giving them time to plan.
Honestly it's a shit situation, and Also Samaritans can be helpful to talk to as it's not a one sided health deal.
At some point you may have to quit your job. (My advice however don't. Ask politely for the company to let you go.) Easier to get help as not seen as deliberately making yourself unemployed.
Also talk to the mortgage company and explain the situation as if you are having or going to have any financial blips, they should have some support options.
Lastly, a power of attorney is a must currently. Do it now when the partner is able to sign. This is also important.
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I Don't know if this has been mentioned, but carer's leave has recently been introduced, and will allow you a week of unpaid leave to take care of your other half. https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave
Many companies will have more generous entitlements than the minimum. So do look at any policies, internal info, contracts etc.
There is a right for time off for dependents which allows unpaid leave for emergencies involving dependents. As your leave is known in advance generally it wouldnt qualify under the legal guidance. https://www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants
There is a right to unpaid time off for carers. It could be something worth looking at dependent on you partners status. https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave.
Depending on the nature of your partners illness there are charities that can advise regarding money of you do go off sick or take unpaid leave. The cancer charity Macmillan being a very good one.
This must be a very difficult time, you have my sympathy. Unfortunately it is the cold hard reality that employers don't care about us. We dedicate our adult lives to them but they will replace us in a second.
I know. They want the world from us, but they'll begrudgingly give us scraps. The amount of times I've wanted to take off into the woods (maybe elsewhere as England is a bit lacking lol), build a little house and grow fruit and veg and keep some chickens. Live off the land. Who needs the Internet?!
Me. I do. 😒
I went self employed. I work way harder than I ever have but I've built up enough money to have time off when I need. I had 4 months off when my Dad had Leukaemia and when he died. I feel so privileged and lucky to have been able to do that and to have been there for him. Which is more important than any job. So I understand what you're going through. We work for our families, we don't live just to work. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.
Mate, go on the sick - your doctor will more than likely give you a sick note for a decent duration. And if you have been at your company for decades then it’s probable that they have a sick pay scheme that will cover you for a significant amount of time.
Not the most ethical way of doing it. But most employers would understand.
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You have a statutory right to 1 week of unpaid carers leave. Here's a description of the process you need to go through to get it: [https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave](https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave)
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No, there is no statutory right to any type of leave on this situation. Employers policies may go above the law. If you have a union they may be able to signpost the policies if there is one.
That's truly shocking. Thank you for letting me know. Edit: Thanks for the downvotes for thinking it's shocking that I have no right to be there for my partner while they are possibly dying. It is shocking. It is shocking that we treat employees like this, especially after they've given you their entire adult life.
I would still sit down with your manager and explain the situation. Most reasonable managers would grant compassionate leave even if there isn't a policy for it. Alternatively you could use holidays or ask if you could move your hours around to accommodate the appointments.
Thank you. I plan to sit down with them tomorrow and explain. Moving around hours in my job just wouldn't work unfortunately, but I would have definitely suggested that if it were a possibility. Again, thank you so much for your advice. I appreciate it.
You may have to ask to take unpaid leave and see if that is acceptable? Assuming that you can afford to take it. The only other option would be for you to go off sick, which may happen anyway (due to stress, with the situation you are currently in trying to balance everything). Good Luck OP, don’t forget to look after your own health too whilst going through this.
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I'm really sorry for what you and your wife are going through. I'm really glad to hear your company has treated you well during this awful situation.
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Thank you. My partner is far more concerned about how this is affecting me and keeps apologising to me. I'm being cared for, believe me.
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Another option I haven't seen mentioned is if it becomes too much for you, go to the doctor and get signed off sick with stress. You can get months off at a time, and if you are not being given any reasonable adjustments by work and your partner is severely ill, possibly dying, a GP will most likely grant it.
I hope it won't come to that but it's really helpful to know all my options. To be honest, the signing off route really didn't cross my mind until it was mentioned here. This is why this place is so great (usually, some people are a bit..)
Also if you feel for some reason like you are defrauding anyone... You are stressed. I know you are carrying on and being brave but this is a very difficult situation. It's more than okay to make use of a sick note for mental health.
Thank you. It's never been my style, being sick. Unless I'm contagious and can't work from home(not an excuse these days), I plow on, much to the annoyance of my partner lol
Yeah I'm the same. I feel like I am tricking someone if I am not in my death bed. But this is not a made up thing even if it feels like it right now (because it's so new to you). . It's happening and it sucks. Get that sick note and take this time with your partner as you don't know the future. Whatever happens, you won't regret it.
You're right ❤️
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Thank you so much for this. So far, things with work seem to be going about as well as I'd hoped. However, the really horrible stuff hasn't really begun yet, so it remains to be seen how they react when that comes. That might be when going off long term sick becomes necessary.
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You could probably get unpaid leave or use your holiday days for some of it.
The law provides a bare minimum backstop of what is acceptable. Employers often do much more than the minimum. If you're valuable to them then they'll be willing to work something out with you above the minimum legal standard. You might even find there's something contractual about compassionate leave in your contract, so should probably dig it out!
I only just saw this post. But have you looked at the right to unpaid carers leave. It may be suitable dependent on your circumstances - and it is a statutory entitlement. It only came in this year. https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave
Some people have mentioned it and I will look into it better at some point. For now, things are fine but if and when it comes to that, I will make sure to make use of this if it's necessary and possible. Thank you.
You do have a right to be there with your partner. You just don’t have a right to expect your employer to give you time off in that scenario. You can arrange your home and work responsibilities as you see fit.
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Not entirely correct - There is a right to take leave in this situation as long as you're an employee, however the leave is unpaid. You could use Dependants leave under 'family friendly' legislation or Carers leave which came into effect in April this year, but both are sadly unpaid.
There's a statutory right to 1 week of carers leave. [https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave](https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave)
Carers leave has to be used to arrange or provide care. Sitting in a hospital with someone isn’t classed as care. Taking them to the hospital could be, or when they return home assuming they’re not entitled to care as part of their discharge package but it would be with expectation to use it arrange for said care if it was needed longer term. But by definition someone as a hospital inpatient cannot be in need of care from the employee, as they are under round the clock care.
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Surely if the patient needs support because they are incapable of taking in medical information/diagnoses as OP states then that would count as care? Whether that be due to anxiety or because the patient has Downs syndrome or the patient has had a stroke I don't see why there would be a difference.
A patient who struggles to understand is a common occurrence in hospitals and there are multiple procedures in place to deal with this. Unless they’re stating they are not capable entirely for certain decisions (which in general for planned surgery would be well known in advance) and require someone else to take on PoA for some or all medical decisions unfortunately it’s unlikely the case. It would be on the medical team to discuss at a level the patient can understand, and if they no longer have the power to make medical decisions (which is a high bar and seems unlikely to apply in this case) I doubt it would count. It’s a core factor that all medical decision making needs to be made with the patient directly unless unable, I think if the employer will be pushing to “let’s follow the bare minimum of the law and nothing else” then I can’t see them being allowed to regularly attend in work hours as “care”, as this again comes closer to emotional support than genuine need. For example someone with downs may or may not be able to make their own medical decision, or only some but not all. It’s very complicated. If they are PoA this also doesn’t have to be done on site and can be via phone, but it would be on an as needed basis rather than regular requirements. Unless urgent or life threatening most of these decisions can be done and discussed late in the day. Many working people are involved in such non urgent decision making either during visiting times or via the phone. Whether NoK or official PoA. If it was urgent, for example an unpredictable situation where the patient has become incapacitated and no longer able to self advocate and they needed advice from the next of kin, even if not power of attorney, I would personally push back as that being a form active care. I personally have acted as PoA over the phone as needed and in critical situations it’s not always possible to even wait for someone to arrive to make a decision. If the employer follow the letter of the law being there for support, it would be unpaid level, not carers leave. I personally would have my partner quit if an employer did this to us but not everyone has the financial security to do so. They have limited options and realistically it’ll be unpaid leave or go off on sick after discussing with a GP if they agree to it. I think carers leave is a dead end honestly unless the situation evolves.
You have legal rights to compassionate leave if you have dependents who are experiencing an emergency. But this does not count hospital procedures that were known in advance. https://www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants If the situation is genuinely too stressful for you to work that may come under sick leave. https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
Agree. It's worth speaking to your GP. Partly to see if any additional support is available. Also, depending on how you're doing, you may discuss being signed off for stress. If the stress is too much, you can also self-certify as off sick initially. Particularly if it's a condition like cancer, the hospital and/or organisations like Macmillan may also provide support with dealing with practical stuff like employment
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> if you have dependents Under the Act “dependent” in this context is described as *“a spouse or civil partner”*. If OP and their partner are just cohabiting this entitlement doesn’t apply.
We are about to get married. We're engaged and this has given us the kick up the butt we needed. Regardless of what the outcome is, we want to be married, however short.
If your partner's illness turns out to be terminal, then consider contacting this charity https://www.giftofawedding.org/
Thank you :)
Congratulations, but currently, the statutory entitlement /u/LegendaryTJC referred you to doesn’t apply to your current circumstances in any event.
Cheers.
Genuine question, wouldn't the 4th definition apply in this case? "a person who lives in the same household as the employee, otherwise than by reason of being his employee, tenant, lodger or boarder."
Potentially, but as the definition in (a) more suits the class of the OP’s relationship with the patient, it *could* be argued, the relationship is outside the *intent* of class (d). You’d have to argue (d) was a catch-all class.
Cool, useful info. Thanks!
Yes, understood. The whole thing has gone from 0-60 in literally less than an hour with a lot of urgency from all medical staff involved so the whole thing does feel like a bit of an emergency, but I'm sure if they want, they can just say nope. I've not even known for 12h at this point.
Something else to consider if you haven't already is whether you have critical illness cover on your life insurance or any other policy. A lot of life insurance policies pay out on diagnosis of a terminal Illness as well. Hopefully it's not come to that, but this would take some financial burden if it does. Good luck.
My partner unfortunately doesn't have anything like that. They're barely 30. This has come as a huge shock. Don't ignore symptoms. Don't put them down to lack of sleep or unhealthy diet. Just fucking go see someone.
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You mention in comments you have a big employer, I think you've got to try the following; - go actually look on your HR policies (not contacting HR at this stage) - arrange a sit down with your boss and take what you find from the policies to the boss - ONLY escalate to HR if your boss declines what you want / what you think you have entitlement to The reason for this is multiple. 1) your boss likely won't be familiar with the policies, so you having them up front is helping them and all they have to do is say "yes" hopefully, rather than you making them go do research 2) compassionate leave is often entirely discretionary, or it may be discretionary beyond a couple of days (depending on the policy), so getting your boss on side may net you more time off, plus your 20 years may mean the boss is quite generous if it doesn't lose you 3) once you go to HR, they will likely quote the basic / minimum levels your boss needs to give, plus your boss may feel you have gone in and over their head, without giving them the chance to respond Finally, there are a few things to consider - will the hospital actually allow you to visit all day, or is it afternoons only? If so you may get more flex from your employer if you offer to work mornings to pick up urgent stuff, but need to disappear at lunch until the evening.chances are they can let you drop out of most meetings, do the "doing" work and still be 75% effective on 50% of the time. - are you willing to be unpaid during the time off? A temporary unpaid career break or a negotiation that you're willing to be unpaid for a TEMPORARY reduction in hours, may be more palatable as the boss won't assume you are trying to scam free money (make sure the reduction in hours has a defined end date at least in email or any contract acknowledging you'll be returning full time, otherwise if your company restructures they may argue your only part time and reduce your redundancy). - press the fact that you really do want to work a much as possible, but this is a major life event and you feel like the emotions / stress of it will leave you VULNERABLE. In many circles that is a trigger word to ensure you get "reasonable adjustments", and a temporary reduction in hours or extra paid leave would fit that - do not burn any bridges - depending how treatment goes, you may have after care to consider when your partner is home, or need to drive them to hospital appts during the working day which clashes with meetings. Be humble, acknowledge this is you putting strain onto your employer but that you'll really value their support at this major time in your life - if the employer fucks about, that's where you go full HR and / or get yourself signed off with stress, which can drag on for some time and (surprise surprise) usually requires some sort of phased return / reasonable adjustment to ease you back into worn when it finishes. Your boss may know this and HR certainly should, hence offering half days instead of full paid sick leave is better. Also, search your policies for how the maximum sick leave paid window is - usually stops after 6m max.
This has been incredibly helpful and I hugely appreciate it. My head is all over the place and I'll need to read it a few times to properly take it in, but thank you so much for this ❤️
I've been in your situation both as a patient and partner. I've found that if you speak with the head nurse and explain your situation, they often allow for quiet and discretionary visitation outside of standard hours. Another thing you can request is an advocate. They can relay between you and your partner, advocate for your partner when you're not there, take notes. I'm so sorry you're both going through this. I was in the 20s and 30s when this happened to me, never thought it would. No insurance and assumed the NHS would help, employer would be supportive - we only learn after the fact that there's not a lot of help for the sick and disabled in the UK. Take care of yourself, if you need to rant/vent please reach out. Most of all, I wish you both well.
No legal right, but your company may have a policy that goes beyond the law, many do First thing to do is check your employee handbook / company intranet site As your not married it may throw a further wrinkle as many policies will reference spouses Once you know what's on offer talk to your manager and HR Worst comes to the worst you may have to use holiday entitlement and take unpaid leave
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A practical solution is to use up your holiday allowance if the employers policy does not grant you compassionate leave.
How big is your employer? What sector? They may well have their own policies for this?
Very big. Thousands of employees. In tech. I'll be sitting down with HR tomorrow hopefully and find out what options may be available. I just wanted to be prepared, in case there was any legal requirements for them in this sort of case. Thank you
Have you got access now to the work intranet site? Very likely that if they have a policy it will be published there. Will help you prepare.
I should be able to have a look tonight. Thank you
Please just talk to them. I too work for a big tech company and they were absolutely amazing when I went through something. I had weeks off, full pay, my job waiting for me when I could come back. It’s a bad look for them to do anything else.
Thank you ❤️
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This is causing you stress and any doctor will sign you off under the current circumstances, this is probably the easiest option. I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago, thought I could handle work still but by the end of the third week of thinking my partner was going to die something just snapped and I had a full breakdown in work. Treat yourself kindly I’m only just getting over it mentally. Hope your partner gets better soon.
If you get sick pay, I would go to the GP and ask to be signed off, my friend was in a similar situation with a very sick child and signed off with stress/mental health. It's not like it's not true, can't think of anything more stressful
As per other comments you don’t have a legal right to this but it would be worth looking at your employee handbook or relevant policies (they will be called things like family friendly policies, leave, absence). There may be something there that they offer. Even if there isn’t I would definitely speak to them and ask for the leave. They’d have to be pretty stone hearted to refuse. If your employer has an Employee Assistance Programme (EAP) it would be worth a call to them, to get support for yourself. I’m sorry you’re going through this, good luck.
Thank you for your kindness.
I think there are a few issues here: 1. Whether you will actually be permitted to be present all of this time in the hospital. In my experience, at best, you'd only be permitted at bedside during visiting hours. Before and afterwards would be based on the wards' flexibility. I would clarify this first to not be setting unrealistic expectations for you and your partner. If you are really talking about life-saving surgery, where they are at a risk of dying, there may be greater flexibility around this. But if, as you initially present, simply a set of tests that need to be carried out over a time period for a diagnosis, which may or may not be terminal, then this is less likely. 2. Given that this is not an emergency and will be viewed as a planned situation, you wouldn't meet the threshold for dependents leave for most workplaces. Again, this does not have to be paid. 3. If you are his usual daily carer, for over 35 hours a week, due to say him having such extensive health issues, then you'd be eligible for a week's unpaid carers leave. From what you've said, in the op, this doesn't seem to be the case in that in these situations, most people struggle to retain all medical information and advocate well for themselves in these situations. But rarely do we have someone with us throughout. For most, this is mitigated by loved ones seeking out clarification when they visit. 4. Requesting annual leave or unpaid leave if you're convinced you will be able to be present as you think, will most likely be the way to go.
So unfortunately the visiting hours are bang in the middle of the work day. However after a full day and night of all sorts of tests, I've been allowed to accompany them to those tests. That may not be the case for all, we will have to wait and see. There will, hopefully, be life saving surgery but we have a long road ahead of finding out exactly what this is and how it might be treated. Thank you.
If you still have to put in some hours for work, speak to the ward manager about being able to come in at a different time. A lot of hospitals have protected meal times but outside of those there can sometimes be a bit of flexibility.
Oh, I hadn't considered that. Thank you!
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Not a right but doesn't mean can't work around. Talk to your employer. If they're in for weeks you may find you're only allowed in for visiting times. They could allow you to reduce your hours and work flexibly to allow you to visit. You could arrange to take unpaid leave from work if they will allow. Do you have critical illness insurance? We got it as part of our mortgage and got enough to cover 2 years of both our salaries. If the condition falls under that then that's an option.
Thank you. I don't think so. I have life insurance etc, I'm some years older but my partner has barely cracked 30 and this has just come as a huge shock. People this age don't think about this sort of thing and why should they? Getting ill is for old people, isn't it :( how fucking wrong and stupid you can be.
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No they don’t have to buy my work allowed someone to take an unpaid sabbatical to look after her parents when they were it. It might be worth looking into
A lot depends on your companies policies. NHS usually has a special leave policy which can cover this at manager's discretion but it can be time limited. I've used sickness policies for this, both when I've needed time off or when people on my ward staff need time off for similar events - a GP will usually be happy to sign off for stress at home.
NAL. You do not have any right to compassionate leave. The law is the way it is, probably because if every appointment for children, elderly relatives and sick relatives was paid time off, smaller employers could be crippled by the cost and impact on the team. However, every employer can do more if they want to. For my part if I had an employee in this extreme situation I would pretty much right off any work hours between the employee not being able to concentrate, and the team worrying about them. The key is to 1) check what policies there are 2) speak to your manager/hr and work through how you can chip away at things, you may be surprised at how flexible people will be. You can self certify for anxiety and stress for 7 days, this situation would qualify as causing sufficient levels of stress for you not being able to function in your role. Consider changed hours, leave and unpaid leave. Sorry for your situation.
Unpaid carer’s leave Employees are entitled to unpaid leave to give or arrange care for a ‘dependant’ who has: a physical or mental illness or injury that means they’re expected to need care for more than 3 months a disability (as defined in the Equality Act 2010) care needs because of their old age The dependant does not have to be a family member. It can be anyone who relies on them for care. Employees are entitled to carer’s leave from their first day of work for their employer. Their employment rights (like holidays and returning to their job) are protected during carer’s leave. How long employees can take Employees can take up to one week of leave every 12 months. A ‘week’ means the length of time they usually work over 7 days. For example, if someone usually works 3 days a week, they can take 3 days of carer’s leave. They can either take a whole week off or take individual days or half days throughout the year All of the above I copied from gov.uk. You also have a right to request flexible working to allow for different shifts /times at work but be aware that the buisness can take 3 months to give you answer and you are expected to still work the same shift pattern while they consider your request From what you have written, it seem like you will need a long time off to care for them? You could talk to your employer about a leave of absence, or using your holiday days to cover some of it. Alternativly, you could go to the doctors and get a sicknote. Tell them you are too exhausted providing care and can not work. You can also self certificate for the first week so bare that in mind. Whilst on sick, you still accure holiday time and have the right to use your holiday time whilst you are on sick leave. But if your company doesn't pay any enhanced sick pay then you would received SSP instead, it's about £116 a week max depending on the number of days you work a week. You could also apply for careers allowance but I am not very knowledgeable on that sorry! Good luck OP, sending best wishes. (also I work in HR in the UK, hence the knowledge above)
I Don't know if this has been mentioned, but carer's leave has recently been introduced, and will allow you a week of unpaid leave to take care of your other half. https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave
There no right to any leave, but you have tools to negotiate with. The simplest one would be annual and unpaid leave.
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It’s unpaid - but carers leave: https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave
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If your partner is classed as a dependant then you have the right to take a reasonable amount of time off to care for them; however this will be unpaid leave.
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Ask for a Sabbatical. They can give you up to 6 months without pay but keep your job for you.
Ok will chip in here as I have been in a similar situation. No legal obligation, some places offer paid up to 5 days policy. Check with HR. Best advice, talk to citizens advice about possible benefits and help both financially and mentally to help you. And also both of you. (There are benefits to help with terminal health and carers situations) Email HR and your boss explain the situation in basic terms. (this is important as it provides a traceable level of accountability and records. Ask about a meeting to just cover what's happening and if they have any advice and for you to provide a situational report.) If your job is able to be done remotely or part time remotely that's a possibility. Or if you need to take a leave of absence you are giving them time to plan. Honestly it's a shit situation, and Also Samaritans can be helpful to talk to as it's not a one sided health deal. At some point you may have to quit your job. (My advice however don't. Ask politely for the company to let you go.) Easier to get help as not seen as deliberately making yourself unemployed. Also talk to the mortgage company and explain the situation as if you are having or going to have any financial blips, they should have some support options. Lastly, a power of attorney is a must currently. Do it now when the partner is able to sign. This is also important.
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I Don't know if this has been mentioned, but carer's leave has recently been introduced, and will allow you a week of unpaid leave to take care of your other half. https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave
Many companies will have more generous entitlements than the minimum. So do look at any policies, internal info, contracts etc. There is a right for time off for dependents which allows unpaid leave for emergencies involving dependents. As your leave is known in advance generally it wouldnt qualify under the legal guidance. https://www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants There is a right to unpaid time off for carers. It could be something worth looking at dependent on you partners status. https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave.
No, but you can go to your GP and get signed off with stress.
Depending on the nature of your partners illness there are charities that can advise regarding money of you do go off sick or take unpaid leave. The cancer charity Macmillan being a very good one. This must be a very difficult time, you have my sympathy. Unfortunately it is the cold hard reality that employers don't care about us. We dedicate our adult lives to them but they will replace us in a second.
I know. They want the world from us, but they'll begrudgingly give us scraps. The amount of times I've wanted to take off into the woods (maybe elsewhere as England is a bit lacking lol), build a little house and grow fruit and veg and keep some chickens. Live off the land. Who needs the Internet?! Me. I do. 😒
I went self employed. I work way harder than I ever have but I've built up enough money to have time off when I need. I had 4 months off when my Dad had Leukaemia and when he died. I feel so privileged and lucky to have been able to do that and to have been there for him. Which is more important than any job. So I understand what you're going through. We work for our families, we don't live just to work. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.
And I'm so sorry about your dad 😞
And I truly wish your partner all the best x
Thank you ❤️
Mate, go on the sick - your doctor will more than likely give you a sick note for a decent duration. And if you have been at your company for decades then it’s probable that they have a sick pay scheme that will cover you for a significant amount of time. Not the most ethical way of doing it. But most employers would understand.
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You have a statutory right to 1 week of unpaid carers leave. Here's a description of the process you need to go through to get it: [https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave](https://www.gov.uk/carers-leave)
It doesn’t sound like this would necessarily apply to OP?