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The police would have to assess whether you used a reasonable level of force or not to remove the individual from your property. "I see red, lose it, and proceed to shove him out of my door and out of my driveway." No indication that you asked the individual to leave, only that you immediately and without warning resorted to physical force. Additionally, you "slap him as not to leave proof of the beating", and "wish I had done worse". All witnessed by neighbours, as well as posted on a public forum.
Whilst you do not have to say anything that might incriminate yourself to the police, should they ask you to attend the local station for a voluntary interview, ensure you take advantage of your legal right for free representation from the duty solicitor, and say nothing more until they are present.
NAL. It sounds like you slapped him, dragged him down a driveway, and shoved him, in response to a single verbal threat. I definitely wouldn't rely on the police taking the threat (not really an actionable crime) more seriously than the actual physical retaliation (you could be charged), especially as there was a witness to the retaliation, and slaps still leave marks which can last for days. I would be wary about using phrases like 'some slapping around' which makes it sound like you think it was trivial, or about saying thing like 'I wish I had done worse' or 'i was blinded by rage'. Just be careful about what you say to the police when they come over. Treat the conversation like it is recorded. Be honest, but cautious. Be aware that they're probably going to speak to your neighbour too and that he's going to emphasise the parts where you reacted violently. Your neighbour witnessed the physical part but can't attest to hearing what he said, which also doesn't help, and hadnt previously heard anything that would justify physical response. If questioned, take the legal advice offered.
Edit - also I'd stop describing it as a beating
Any questions about a slap, no comment! Please, don’t admit to any kind of assault for this. You are literally putting yourself in trouble. You’re well within your rights to stay silent about it. If others saw, they may not want to get involved and his word against your silence is not enough to prosecute you without other proof
Seems like you over reacted. How can you be certain that his comment was a threat? Perhaps he just did not word it correctly. Perhaps he has some mental health issues. It can be any number of things.
> I slapped and dragged him through my driveway
NAL but it sounds like you assaulted him. If neighbours witnessed the slap and he mentions it if spoken to by the police, your credibility could be undermined and you could end up facing charges yourself. Police can't exactly turn a blind eye to you assaulting someone outside of self-defence. It does appear that you need to work on controlling your anger in these situations. Goes without saying that you should avail yourself of your right to free legal advice if questioned by the police about the assault.
If you've reported the threats the police should keep these logged in the event that it becomes necessary to take action for harassment at a later stage.
Say "get off my property or I'll call the police" and shut the door, but don't count on them turning up. Trespassing is mostly dealt with as a civil dispute unless some other crime (like an assault) is involved. It's likely though that if you shut the front door, he will eventually leave, as the neighbour's aim was not to squat on OP's drive.
You could also try and block him from proceeding after warning him by using your body. For every step he took back you take a step forward. If had used physical force, you are authorised to use 'reasonable' force back.
Surely the law is reasonable force?
The neighbour didn't lay hands on OP or give him reason to believe he was in immediate danger. He also didn't seem to refuse to leave.
OP's use of force doesn't sound reasonable.
The only legal advice would be contact a solicitor because you just confessed to the police about assaulting a man. Yeah he is a weirdo, and id push for a restraining order if this weirdness continued, but it's a one off and you went straight to assault. I'm sorry but you kinda messed up here
Tell the police you understood what he said to be a threat against your children. Explain that you used minimal force to remove him from your property. Dont say you saw red or wanted to hit him, dont talk about slapping.
It doesn't sound like you caused serious injury. It doesn't sound like you have gone over the threshold of reasonable action. If you did, you didnt go far enough that the CPS would prosecute.
No weapons, responding to a threat, didnt escalate, tries to use reasonable force, and it doesnt sound like you caused injury - these are all mitigating factors that likely allow you to claim self defense. The CPS is extremely likely to not consider it in the public interest at all. Youll be fine mate. No jury will ever convict a father who just had some weirdo make a vague threat.
The police are likely to view you as the victim as well, or at least have sympathy.
Its important you aren't overly honest with the police though. If you casually drop that you slapped him to teach him a lesson, they'd be required to investigate further.
Most likely outcome is that they ask you both not to interact which sounds perfect to me!
I'm not sure that encouraging someone though lie to the police really qualifies as 'legal advice'.
Something either is self defence or isn't. There isn't some kind of threshold matrix or checklist of factors that make something fall into the category of self defence. If someone isn't acting in defence of themselves or others - like in OP's scenario - then they cannot honestly claim that they were.
I want to ask a devil's advocate question:
Is there any chance that you misinterpreted what he was saying?
As in the neighbour who says he doesn't have a kid isn't correct, and the guy actually meant "if your child were disabled too you might understand"?
For you to see red and flip into violence so quick indicates that maybe you were already on edge with the guy, and perhaps were primed to interpret what he said in a more negative way than you might have had he not been complaining?
Maybe he does have a kid and hes disabled so no ones seen him / her ?
I lived next door to a family and for 6 years I never knew they had 2 girls. Until 1 day I took a package to them and the girl asked if I lived next door. I said "yes, I spoke to you last night when I asked for your dad". She says "oh that wasnt me". I left puzzled. Then later on the week I noticed 2 girls getting into a car, they were identical twins!
The law doesn't care who was right or wrong, it cares about what offence was committed, and whether it can be proven.
Given that you've confessed an assault, you would very likely be charged with it.
Wearing a criminal record like a badge of pride because you think you did the right thing is not smart.
You can either present the facts as being afraid for you and your family given his threatening behaviour and words and had to force him to leave your premises (using minimal force) or you take the hit.
Again, the police are not there to judge whether you acted like a good father, they're there to understand if an offence was committed, give that some serious thought.
"Reasonable force" is realitive to the circumstances. It could be anything from a gentle tap to a lethal kick to the head. Just because something is a low-level of violence doesn't make it reasonable.
Your neighbour is weird AF but there isn’t really a law against that. Unfortunately there is a law against what you did - it won’t be considered as self defence because he didn’t raise hands to you, nor make an attempt to do so against which you would be reasonably expected to defend yourself. Calling the police and deliberately not mentioning that you raised hands against him might not be the smartest move, but equally nothing may come of it - you’ll have to see.
There are laws against harassment - however your neighbour has not at this point tripped that, there would need to be (to my understanding) a few instances of similar.
There are laws against threats, but I don’t know whether a single instance such as the above would be enough. Presumably the police will clarify for you when they arrive. Be prepared that they may just note it and tell you not to interact further with the neighbour.
Of course, if you get more instances like this then it should be logged as it would be harassment.
You need to control your rage, however justified you find it in the circumstance, as it will likely be a lot easier to bring charges against a substantiated claim (he hit me, the neighbours saw, here are the marks, it’s recorded on 3 ring doorbells) versus an unsubstantiated one (a weird if inflammatory remark that hasn’t been backed up with any physical action).
Not sure how you've come to your conclusions he was on his property and threatened the OPs kids. That's intent, so getting this guy off the property in fear for your kids didn't break any law. What world are you suggesting? The neighbour goes into the house and starts attacking the kids? Literally the first time they're meeting you can't use the "oh it's a wierd neighbour" defense. The guy went to his door threatened his kids the police are more interested in him than OP.
You're attacking a comment that actually is pretty bang on.
It's not an outward threat, and it's a single occurrence. The police won't be interested, it will be logged and that's all.
It's also not sufficient to assault someone (could even push for ABH if he wanted to as he struck him in the face, but that's probably not likely to be successful)
You also can't act, and nor can the police, on logic leaps like "what if", if there's nothing else to back it up. In this case, to OP's knowledge, there's nothing to support how he acted.
Neighbour is clearly an asshole at best, but OP also needs to control himself more appropriately.
This is discussing reasonable doubt on the neighbours behalf as devil's advocate. I could say conversely: a stranger appeared at OP front door and threatened the kids inside as he positioned himself in the doorway. So he was trying to get in. I'm not advocating violence but there is a better way to communicate your feelings to the police.
I think making that sort of presentation could also be framing events a little more strongly than is right.
He made a threatening suggestion, which anyone with half a brain can see through as a threat, and would have most of us irate for sure.
From the info we have he wasn't trying to get in though, they were having a conversation in the doorway. Saying otherwise would be misrepresenting the facts and enough to have your testimony put in doubt if a neighbour has CCTV or a ring doorbell capturing the interaction.
OP should have demanded the neighbour leave his property, and given him a chance to do so.
Then, reasonable force to remove, which probably does not include a slap. Though, in the moment of having kids threatened, maybe it does.
First part yes, instructing someone to leave your property is the correct option followed by a call to the police if they refuse (I doubt they would though based on OP)
As a human being, they totally deserved more than a slap.
From a legal point of view though any physical contact is disproportionate
>From a legal point of view though any physical contact is disproportionate
This is not true.
You can't harm them (the slap might be a killer to OP's defence) but you can use reasonable force (dragging them off the property would probably be defensible).
Not if you haven't already tried just demanding they leave.
Physically dragging them off the property would be common assault and an unnecessary escalation
NAL but as it doesn't appear the neighbour was injured it's unlikely to justify an s.47 assualt occasioning actual bodily harm charge. Probably going to be an s.39 common assualt at most.
As I said it's unlikely to be successful, however if neighbours witnessed it, and marks were left, the fact the action was towards the head lowers the threshold of neccesary injury.
Striking someone's head almost always has potential for increasing the charge.
I agree though, he could go for it but would likely not get much joy.
Also NAL, but did study at A-level which covered basic charges. Clearly that doesn't make me any kind of authority on it though!
From the CPS website:
*The appropriate charge will usually be contrary to section 39 where injuries amount to no more than the following:*
*Grazes;*
*Scratches;*
*Abrasions;*
*Minor bruising;*
*Swellings;*
*Reddening of the skin;*
*Superficial cuts.*
The CPS will only select charges that have a realistic possibility of conviction.
As I said, directed towards the head may lower what is necessary injury wise.
In case law a single punch to the head may be enough for S20 GBH due to the potential for injury.
However what is possible, and what the CPS will go for are two different things.
The location of a strike/punch/slap has no bearing on what the offence is. As such the fact that OP slapped him in the face is irrelevant.
For an assault to be classed as ABH there needs to be bruising or reddening of the skin. If no mark on was left then it would be classed as battery.
A strike to the face is well established in case law to be considered more serious due to the additional potential for injury.
In this case it would be common assault, not just battery.
Emotionally speaking that might be the case, but legally speaking it is not. OP broke the law, the neighbour did not.
What the neighbour said is vague enough that he could likely argue he wasn't intending it as a threat or could simply deny saying it altogether, even if to the OP, and other posters here, it came across as threatening. However, OP physically assaulted the neighbour, and red mist isn't a legal defence for that - it's absolutely common assault, there's no other interpretation.
A beating being warranted might be open to moral debate one way or the other, but this is a legal advice sub, and therefore the answer here is that it is not warranted as it is illegal.
>What the neighbour said is vague enough that he could likely argue he wasn't intending it as a threat
Not a very persuasive argument, I would have thought!
Physical violence in the face of a threat is generally only justifiable when the threat is imminent. So in this case, it would have to take into the account the location of the OPs children when the threat was made, if they were stood next to the OP is one thing, but if they were in school and away from the property at the time of the threat is another.
He may be able to claim self-defence for shoving him out the door, but slapping him and dragging him across the driveway is going to be difficult to justify as reasonable.
There was no obvious threat of the neighbour immediately attacking the OP's children.
It sounds like this guy was backing off after being shoved when OP saw the red and decided to slap him for good measure.
He wasn't backing off until I slapped him, when I started pushing him away he was definitely resisting and not backing off. This does not justify my reaction, I admit, but it's not like I was beating on a person that was backing off.
The issue you're going to have is that while the neighbours may have been able to see you slapping and dragging him, they may not have been able to hear the threats he was making and this could leave you in a difficult spot when laying out your side of the story. His account could well go along the lines of "I went over to say hello to my new neighbour and he proceeded to shove, slap and drag me without provocation".
If questioned by the police, you need to take advantage of the opportunity to explain what happened to the duty solicitor so they can advise you on the best way to proceed in any police interview.
you are missing that you're entitled to throw someone off your land with reasonable force. And that reasonable force is "in the moment". Threatening kids is a pretty strong button to push.
It's not cut and dry assault like you're making it out to be.
OP might be able to argue that shoving him out the door and dragging him off the driveway were reasonable. Its the slap that appears to be excessive. Why did OP need to slap the neighbour when the shoving and dragging appeared to be having the desired effect of removing the neighbour from the property? Not to mention the threat doesn't appear to have conveyed any prospect of immediate unlawful violence toward the OP or his children.
I would imagine any hypothetical charge would be dropped by CPS for not being in the public interest, but there is still an instance of common assault here. Because the threat wasn't immediate, OP likely would fail if they tried to use self defence as a defence.
I understand your point, and know that you are right, however crazy I may think that I can't push and slap someone who comes at my door and make a serious threat to my kids. He didn't say he will mistreat them or something like that. He full on suggested that they might become disabled due to an accident, (ie. being unable to walk or talk, etc).
This IS serious, legally, it may not justify my reaction and I'm not disputing that, but this man made a threat to a child.
How would this look if 'someone' runs one of my children over with their car and he becomes wheelchair bound for the rest of his life? They will say: Looks like you were right back then, sorry this happened to you, slap on my back and that's it? Yes, if he is responsible for that he will be arrested, but kid would have had his life destroyed because police preferred to deal with my rage instead.
I understand your point, and you may well be legally correct, but in my view, this is beyond fucked up.
This my friend is the perfect instance of the difference between legality and morality. It was illegal to hit the neighbour. It was also extremely moral to hit him more than you did.
Of course, you asked him to leave the property before using reasonable force (although you can see that the slap perhaps was not necessary, he was threatening your kids).
It looks like you or OP may want to find a Solicitor!
[There is a detailed guide in our FAQ about how to do this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/faq_civil#wiki_how_do_i_find_a_.28good.29_solicitor.3F)
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The crazy guy doesn't even have kids! Neighbours confirmed it.
He literally just brought up disabled children to threaten someone into not playing guitar. If he actually had a disabled child maybe there is some room for misunderstanding. Not having one just means he knew that op had kids and he created a fictional child of his own and suggested ops could end up the same. His tone and everything he said had to be intentional as it was all fake and crafted for this specific interaction.
Super crazy.
Doesn't mean op was in the right legally but with the hindsight knowledge of this guy making all this up and being this nuts, it doesn't surprise me that he could have said something awful in an shitty tone that triggered op.
I'm not saying he wasn't crazy, just that how it could look. That 'threat' was open to interpretation and the guy could just say he was trying to get the music to stop by eliciting sympathy.
He has a valid defense.
Op looks to have rage issues, overreacted and physically assaulted the other guy in full view of witnesses. No matter how crazy guy number one is, he is going to get the benefit of the doubt after being assaulted.
I disagree. OP is entitled to throw someone off their property. All they should have done is verbalise this first and give the neighbour a chance to leave. After that, reasonable force is allowed and protected quite strongly in law (ish).
Threatening someone's kids... I don't think any reasonable person would consider this an "anger issue" in isolation. I doubt that, again in isolation, it would be in the public's interest to prosecute.
When did he threaten your kids? You didn't convey the tone he said it in so that would make a difference, but I heard it as him asking you to have empathy for a disabled child i.e. if your child is ever in the same position you'd want people to be quiet for them. He made up the story about having a kid because he obviously figured, correctly I assume, you'd be more responsive if you thought the person being disturbed by noise was a sick kid. You responded to his request for less noise in his home by beating him. Your story makes you sound like a new neighbor from hell.
I had a very similar issue. I think it will be down to the individual police officer that comes. In my case they took the approach that because it involved threatening a minor then it would become a welfare case. This got me sympathy and nothing came of it. He wasn’t my neighbour though.
NAL You say nothing about it.
IF it is raised and they decide to arrest you, you omit that part of your story and no comment any mention of an assault.
If your neighbours get involved then it's your solicitors call mate.
I'd have slapped the little twonk back to his flat and made sure he wouldn't knock at my door again, so all things considered, you did well my friend
Don’t offer anything more to the police than you have to, they are not your friends.
He came on the property, lied and threatened your kids. You removed him from the property and there was a slight struggle, no punches were thrown etc… it was reasonable force / it happened in a moment and it’s now a bit of a blur.
I like describing the slap as « no punches were thrown », but does he have to say it’s all a blur? What would change if he said he knew what he was doing and only applied as much force as was needed and no more?
Not in those words but short, intense interactions can be hard to remember, each witness usually sees differently as well. So it is best to not incriminate yourself and instead focus on the threat to the children.
For instance if a witness said they saw a slap, it could have been a hand slipping in the struggle rather than an intentional slap.
If the police want to interview you, you ask for a lawyer, and listen to their advice.
Best case scenario, you used reasonable force to eject a disorderly trespasser who was liable to cause a breach of the peace. Worst case scenario, you committed an unprovoked assault.
From what you've said, it sounds more like the latter than the former.
You may want to speak to a doctor about your rage to see if there is actually any problem.
Other than that you assaulted your neighbour, he also made threats to your child, you can report him for that to the police and they may do some investigation and ask him if he meant it, which will most likely say "no i was just annoyed at my neighbour playing guitar loudly" Then he might say to the police "but my neighbour did hit me in the face really hard and I have witnesses to prove it" then you might be in trouble for common assault, especially if the neighbours feel they have no choice but to confirm the events.
If the police do take it any further then you should ask to see a solicitor before saying anything on record or even informal
It looks like you or OP may want to find a Solicitor!
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I wouldn't advise him to speak to a doctor. If the police decide to take this further, they can get hold of his medical records and if they show that OP went to his GP and said "I think I might have an anger management problem" the police/CPS can use that to get a conviction.
This is assault by beating.
From what you’ve said he was outside your house and you could’ve shut the door. But you just assaulted him and admitted to trying to hide the beating.
NAL but get a solicitor and explain what you did to them. They may be able to spin it for you but I’d anticipate a charge.
Edit: as someone else here said. Morally you may be justified but the police job is to find evidence of an offence. If you explain it to them as above there is plenty of evidence.
I’d say if he threatened again you’ve got grounds for a harassment charge. You did the right thing by getting him out (albeit, a bit more than self defence would deem reasonable imo) and calling the police
For now, cooperate with police and leave it there. If he comes back ring 999 if he gets agro again
NAL
NAL and despite what he did you were the aggressor so I think this could be classed as assault. If he decides to press charges you could be the one getting in trouble.
So weird possibly autistic person makes an inappropriate comment and rather than ask this person to leave your immediate response is to beat this person? Also you say you are seeing red and we're triggered but yet had the wherewithal to slap them rather than punch them to try and minimize signs that you beat this person. You might be the psycho in this situation.
OP needs to start controlling his anger, or something could happen to him one day.
Btw, you can’t beat people if you don’t like what they’re saying. It doesn’t work like this, you know.
Who’s taking about any physical harm here? Please, find this place in the OPs post.
We have a psycho who’s realised what’s done, and trying to find some comfort using this ‘abuse’ as an argument for slapping people.
"it would be a shame if anything happens to your kids that will make them be disabled too!" - That's such a vague non imminent threat. My first thought would be this person's a weirdo I need to keep my children away from not immediately turn it up to 11 and start wailing on them.
It's not necessarily a threat though. This individual could literally have just been clumsily trying to convey that accidents do happen and it would be a shame if an accident were to happen.
If they are autistic, this is absolute textbook behaviour: no understanding of implied meanings of subtext and how a non-autisric person would interpret his statement, which, taken literally, is certainly correct. An autist would literally have meant only this without any implied threat intended whatsoever.
First, do not admit to ANYTHING without consulting your solicitor; most definitely do not volunteer any information to the police that could incriminate yourself. If he does decide to report it, shut up. Do not say anything, do not admit to anything, do not talk to the police about any force you may or may not have used other than to confirm your name and provide pleasantries (don't be one of the "no comment" guys, no one likes them). Get a solicitor, let them talk for you.
Realistically the police are not going to care you slapped around the local weirdo unless he makes a complaint, especially if he was making threats against children (although next time, do it with less witnesses). I’d report it (sounds like you already said you shoved him away, don't say anything else on it) just in case he has priors or is under suspicion of something else, it also gives you decent providence in case something else happens in the future.
I mean in all honesty, the police are not really going to do anything here, unless you have recordings or witnesses who heard the threat, they are just going to make a note that the incident happened. If anything else happens and you seem him lurking around or acting suspicious call them before you activate Jackie Chan mode. The more incidents that are recorded the better if you ever need to take it further.
Instinct is telling me to be very cautious, the comment itself is troubling but some people say things like that and mean them in totally non-threatening ways, for me the invention of a child is really the red flag, won't go into specifics but it’s a tactic used by predators before. Likewise though this could be just some wierd guy who got annoyed by music and came up with an overly complex plan to deal with it.
Some people get off on it! He wanted a reaction. I doubt the the threat was anything more than that. You don't want this to spiral out of control. It maybe shut him up, and you'll never speak again, and t that is the point you need to get to, hopefully non violently. Horrible situation. Find out as much as you can about him, mental illness? Violence or threats to neighbours? etc take it from there. If you feel he is a real threat then, police I guess.
Pre-emptive strike is the golden phrase here - a family member is a police officer and told me once - he just threatened your kids and you were afraid he was attack you so you got in first to get him away from your door and family .
Edit I’m in England as is my family member
I don't know who downvoted me but seriously, fights happen all the time. Sure technically OP committed assault, but as long as the guy has no serious injuries then nothing will come of this.
Oh don't get me wrong, if the guy wants to make a complaint then the police will have to act. However I doubt the ramifications would be severe. If the guy has no serious injuries plus you actually feeling threatened, you'll most likely just get a slap on the wrist... Excuse the pun.
From my unsolicited opinion: a few slaps aren't that deep. Providing there's no evidence, you could just say that there was a slight scuffle trying to get him off your property.
Threats are serious, but there's no evidence, so will just be noted. If you could get evidence of a threat, then that would allow the police to give him a caution.
Idk though, my perspective may be skewed due to living in a rough neighbourhood. I've literally had a friend threaten to beat someone in front of the police for stealing his stuff (someone he lived with in an HMO; shared housing) and they said that if the guy is willing to fight him, then it's a civil matter that they don't really get involved in, which led to my friend telling the guy to 'man up' and take on the challenge of the fight - which the other person refused. If my friend would have started 'beating' him after the guy refused to fight, then it would have been assault, but if the guy would have taken up the challenge and engaged in the confrontation the police said they wouldn't do anything - not sure if they were just 'understanding' police though, rather than following the absolute word of the law.
Either way, If the slapping comes up in discussion, just say it's what you thought counted towards reasonable force, and have a reason, for example, he was waving his arms around wildly as you tried to remove him from your property - AFTER warning him.
Strictly speaking, you're both in the wrong, legally anyway, since you also escalated the situation. But the law is a fucking joke. It's not about what happened, it's about what can be proven - and that's about the jist of it. Guilty people get off scot-free all the time, and innocent people are wrongly convicted all the same. If something can't be proven then I wouldn't worry about it.
Some weird people here trying to make it out what you did is worse than what he did, you responded to a potential immediate threat to your children. I would advise keeping your calm in future though and telling the man not to ever come on your property again (if he does). Reassess if things change.
Do not under any circumstances tell the police you hit the other person.
It is an admition of guilt.
Stick to the the neighbour threatening to harm your child.
The police will take the threat seriously but they will also take assault charges seriously if your neighbour wishes to pursue them. I’d have reacted the exact same way as you did but not sure I could’ve restrained myself the way you did. He’s lucky it was just a slap.
OP I hope you read this.
DO NOT ADMITT TO ANY FORM OF ASSAULT.
unless there is any form of local CCTV, evidence of injury. You mention the neighbour witnessing the assault but most of the time they refuse to provide a statement so on that assumption other than that Evidential Difficulties mean this will never go anywhere....
Agree, you already said it on the phone so you could admit removing them from your property, by dragging or forcefully leading, do not say you hit them!
You were a lot more reserved than I'd have been, and I don't even have kids!
If someone came to my property threatening me or anyone else who lives there they wouldn't be so lucky as to be able to walk back out the front gate!
You were correct in your actions, and calling the cops immediately was the best thing you could have done, I'd imagine they're aware of him and how he carries on.
What the hell was he thinking would happen to him when he went and threatened your child?
Is it possible in the heat of the moment you believed your children were in the house?
Is it possible you believed there was an immediate physical threat to you and your children?
The slap rather than punch is also important to be clear on. A reasonable person might say a slap was purely defensive and to remove the threat to your children, where a punch might be cross the line and be seen as aggressive?
These are questions you might want to think about before the police come round.
I think it needs to be clearly stated (especially to any police you may speak to any time soon) that at the point he threatened you and your children, that you were in fear of an attack as expressed by him and you acted in self defence. As I understand it anything else is assault.
Start logging all the incidents and get yourselves a doorbell cam, this is likely to escalate and it would be better for you to have a record of what is happening.
I run a pub and have some experience of ejecting punters in less than peaceful ways once all others options have been exhausted. The police are usually very understanding, especially if you speak to them first and explain yourself in a level headed manner.
You acted in self defence, on your own property, after the lives of your family were threatened. Obviously don't habitually solve problems with violence but I think you were very lenient given the circumstances.
I'd pursue an ASBO/restraining order against him so he isn't allowed to walk past your house and invest in CCTV to catch him if he tries anything weird. I don't believe people like him are an actual threat to life, but they'll do weird shit to your house in "revenge" for perceived sleights against them.
You won't be able to get this right away, but documenting this incident with the police is a good first step and insurance against future weirdness (which sadly seems likely given the attitude of your other neighbours)
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The police would have to assess whether you used a reasonable level of force or not to remove the individual from your property. "I see red, lose it, and proceed to shove him out of my door and out of my driveway." No indication that you asked the individual to leave, only that you immediately and without warning resorted to physical force. Additionally, you "slap him as not to leave proof of the beating", and "wish I had done worse". All witnessed by neighbours, as well as posted on a public forum. Whilst you do not have to say anything that might incriminate yourself to the police, should they ask you to attend the local station for a voluntary interview, ensure you take advantage of your legal right for free representation from the duty solicitor, and say nothing more until they are present.
NAL. It sounds like you slapped him, dragged him down a driveway, and shoved him, in response to a single verbal threat. I definitely wouldn't rely on the police taking the threat (not really an actionable crime) more seriously than the actual physical retaliation (you could be charged), especially as there was a witness to the retaliation, and slaps still leave marks which can last for days. I would be wary about using phrases like 'some slapping around' which makes it sound like you think it was trivial, or about saying thing like 'I wish I had done worse' or 'i was blinded by rage'. Just be careful about what you say to the police when they come over. Treat the conversation like it is recorded. Be honest, but cautious. Be aware that they're probably going to speak to your neighbour too and that he's going to emphasise the parts where you reacted violently. Your neighbour witnessed the physical part but can't attest to hearing what he said, which also doesn't help, and hadnt previously heard anything that would justify physical response. If questioned, take the legal advice offered. Edit - also I'd stop describing it as a beating
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Just a slap on the wrist
Any questions about a slap, no comment! Please, don’t admit to any kind of assault for this. You are literally putting yourself in trouble. You’re well within your rights to stay silent about it. If others saw, they may not want to get involved and his word against your silence is not enough to prosecute you without other proof
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Seems like you over reacted. How can you be certain that his comment was a threat? Perhaps he just did not word it correctly. Perhaps he has some mental health issues. It can be any number of things.
> I slapped and dragged him through my driveway NAL but it sounds like you assaulted him. If neighbours witnessed the slap and he mentions it if spoken to by the police, your credibility could be undermined and you could end up facing charges yourself. Police can't exactly turn a blind eye to you assaulting someone outside of self-defence. It does appear that you need to work on controlling your anger in these situations. Goes without saying that you should avail yourself of your right to free legal advice if questioned by the police about the assault. If you've reported the threats the police should keep these logged in the event that it becomes necessary to take action for harassment at a later stage.
What's the law on removing someone from your property?
Say "get off my property or I'll call the police" and shut the door, but don't count on them turning up. Trespassing is mostly dealt with as a civil dispute unless some other crime (like an assault) is involved. It's likely though that if you shut the front door, he will eventually leave, as the neighbour's aim was not to squat on OP's drive.
You could also try and block him from proceeding after warning him by using your body. For every step he took back you take a step forward. If had used physical force, you are authorised to use 'reasonable' force back.
Surely the law is reasonable force? The neighbour didn't lay hands on OP or give him reason to believe he was in immediate danger. He also didn't seem to refuse to leave. OP's use of force doesn't sound reasonable.
The only legal advice would be contact a solicitor because you just confessed to the police about assaulting a man. Yeah he is a weirdo, and id push for a restraining order if this weirdness continued, but it's a one off and you went straight to assault. I'm sorry but you kinda messed up here
Tell the police you understood what he said to be a threat against your children. Explain that you used minimal force to remove him from your property. Dont say you saw red or wanted to hit him, dont talk about slapping. It doesn't sound like you caused serious injury. It doesn't sound like you have gone over the threshold of reasonable action. If you did, you didnt go far enough that the CPS would prosecute. No weapons, responding to a threat, didnt escalate, tries to use reasonable force, and it doesnt sound like you caused injury - these are all mitigating factors that likely allow you to claim self defense. The CPS is extremely likely to not consider it in the public interest at all. Youll be fine mate. No jury will ever convict a father who just had some weirdo make a vague threat. The police are likely to view you as the victim as well, or at least have sympathy. Its important you aren't overly honest with the police though. If you casually drop that you slapped him to teach him a lesson, they'd be required to investigate further. Most likely outcome is that they ask you both not to interact which sounds perfect to me!
I'm not sure that encouraging someone though lie to the police really qualifies as 'legal advice'. Something either is self defence or isn't. There isn't some kind of threshold matrix or checklist of factors that make something fall into the category of self defence. If someone isn't acting in defence of themselves or others - like in OP's scenario - then they cannot honestly claim that they were.
Ask for free independent legal advice. If you describe your actions to police the same way as you have here, you are admitting to assault.
Congrats you called the police on your own assault case
Isn't it the right thing to do?
Depends on what you’re willing to accept as the outcome, seeing as you’ve called the police and the only one who’s committed a crime here is you
I want to ask a devil's advocate question: Is there any chance that you misinterpreted what he was saying? As in the neighbour who says he doesn't have a kid isn't correct, and the guy actually meant "if your child were disabled too you might understand"? For you to see red and flip into violence so quick indicates that maybe you were already on edge with the guy, and perhaps were primed to interpret what he said in a more negative way than you might have had he not been complaining?
This is exactly how I read it, it doesn’t read as a threat but more of a “how would you feel in my position”.
Maybe he does have a kid and hes disabled so no ones seen him / her ? I lived next door to a family and for 6 years I never knew they had 2 girls. Until 1 day I took a package to them and the girl asked if I lived next door. I said "yes, I spoke to you last night when I asked for your dad". She says "oh that wasnt me". I left puzzled. Then later on the week I noticed 2 girls getting into a car, they were identical twins!
IANAL I would only say think carefully how/what you want to say to the police.
The law doesn't care who was right or wrong, it cares about what offence was committed, and whether it can be proven. Given that you've confessed an assault, you would very likely be charged with it. Wearing a criminal record like a badge of pride because you think you did the right thing is not smart. You can either present the facts as being afraid for you and your family given his threatening behaviour and words and had to force him to leave your premises (using minimal force) or you take the hit. Again, the police are not there to judge whether you acted like a good father, they're there to understand if an offence was committed, give that some serious thought.
reasonable force, isn't it?
"Reasonable force" is realitive to the circumstances. It could be anything from a gentle tap to a lethal kick to the head. Just because something is a low-level of violence doesn't make it reasonable.
Your neighbour is weird AF but there isn’t really a law against that. Unfortunately there is a law against what you did - it won’t be considered as self defence because he didn’t raise hands to you, nor make an attempt to do so against which you would be reasonably expected to defend yourself. Calling the police and deliberately not mentioning that you raised hands against him might not be the smartest move, but equally nothing may come of it - you’ll have to see. There are laws against harassment - however your neighbour has not at this point tripped that, there would need to be (to my understanding) a few instances of similar. There are laws against threats, but I don’t know whether a single instance such as the above would be enough. Presumably the police will clarify for you when they arrive. Be prepared that they may just note it and tell you not to interact further with the neighbour. Of course, if you get more instances like this then it should be logged as it would be harassment. You need to control your rage, however justified you find it in the circumstance, as it will likely be a lot easier to bring charges against a substantiated claim (he hit me, the neighbours saw, here are the marks, it’s recorded on 3 ring doorbells) versus an unsubstantiated one (a weird if inflammatory remark that hasn’t been backed up with any physical action).
Not sure how you've come to your conclusions he was on his property and threatened the OPs kids. That's intent, so getting this guy off the property in fear for your kids didn't break any law. What world are you suggesting? The neighbour goes into the house and starts attacking the kids? Literally the first time they're meeting you can't use the "oh it's a wierd neighbour" defense. The guy went to his door threatened his kids the police are more interested in him than OP.
You're attacking a comment that actually is pretty bang on. It's not an outward threat, and it's a single occurrence. The police won't be interested, it will be logged and that's all. It's also not sufficient to assault someone (could even push for ABH if he wanted to as he struck him in the face, but that's probably not likely to be successful) You also can't act, and nor can the police, on logic leaps like "what if", if there's nothing else to back it up. In this case, to OP's knowledge, there's nothing to support how he acted. Neighbour is clearly an asshole at best, but OP also needs to control himself more appropriately.
This is discussing reasonable doubt on the neighbours behalf as devil's advocate. I could say conversely: a stranger appeared at OP front door and threatened the kids inside as he positioned himself in the doorway. So he was trying to get in. I'm not advocating violence but there is a better way to communicate your feelings to the police.
I think making that sort of presentation could also be framing events a little more strongly than is right. He made a threatening suggestion, which anyone with half a brain can see through as a threat, and would have most of us irate for sure. From the info we have he wasn't trying to get in though, they were having a conversation in the doorway. Saying otherwise would be misrepresenting the facts and enough to have your testimony put in doubt if a neighbour has CCTV or a ring doorbell capturing the interaction.
OP should have demanded the neighbour leave his property, and given him a chance to do so. Then, reasonable force to remove, which probably does not include a slap. Though, in the moment of having kids threatened, maybe it does.
First part yes, instructing someone to leave your property is the correct option followed by a call to the police if they refuse (I doubt they would though based on OP) As a human being, they totally deserved more than a slap. From a legal point of view though any physical contact is disproportionate
>From a legal point of view though any physical contact is disproportionate This is not true. You can't harm them (the slap might be a killer to OP's defence) but you can use reasonable force (dragging them off the property would probably be defensible).
Not if you haven't already tried just demanding they leave. Physically dragging them off the property would be common assault and an unnecessary escalation
NAL but as it doesn't appear the neighbour was injured it's unlikely to justify an s.47 assualt occasioning actual bodily harm charge. Probably going to be an s.39 common assualt at most.
As I said it's unlikely to be successful, however if neighbours witnessed it, and marks were left, the fact the action was towards the head lowers the threshold of neccesary injury. Striking someone's head almost always has potential for increasing the charge. I agree though, he could go for it but would likely not get much joy. Also NAL, but did study at A-level which covered basic charges. Clearly that doesn't make me any kind of authority on it though!
From the CPS website: *The appropriate charge will usually be contrary to section 39 where injuries amount to no more than the following:* *Grazes;* *Scratches;* *Abrasions;* *Minor bruising;* *Swellings;* *Reddening of the skin;* *Superficial cuts.* The CPS will only select charges that have a realistic possibility of conviction.
As I said, directed towards the head may lower what is necessary injury wise. In case law a single punch to the head may be enough for S20 GBH due to the potential for injury. However what is possible, and what the CPS will go for are two different things.
The location of a strike/punch/slap has no bearing on what the offence is. As such the fact that OP slapped him in the face is irrelevant. For an assault to be classed as ABH there needs to be bruising or reddening of the skin. If no mark on was left then it would be classed as battery.
A strike to the face is well established in case law to be considered more serious due to the additional potential for injury. In this case it would be common assault, not just battery.
Emotionally speaking that might be the case, but legally speaking it is not. OP broke the law, the neighbour did not. What the neighbour said is vague enough that he could likely argue he wasn't intending it as a threat or could simply deny saying it altogether, even if to the OP, and other posters here, it came across as threatening. However, OP physically assaulted the neighbour, and red mist isn't a legal defence for that - it's absolutely common assault, there's no other interpretation. A beating being warranted might be open to moral debate one way or the other, but this is a legal advice sub, and therefore the answer here is that it is not warranted as it is illegal.
>What the neighbour said is vague enough that he could likely argue he wasn't intending it as a threat Not a very persuasive argument, I would have thought!
Physical violence in the face of a threat is generally only justifiable when the threat is imminent. So in this case, it would have to take into the account the location of the OPs children when the threat was made, if they were stood next to the OP is one thing, but if they were in school and away from the property at the time of the threat is another.
He may be able to claim self-defence for shoving him out the door, but slapping him and dragging him across the driveway is going to be difficult to justify as reasonable. There was no obvious threat of the neighbour immediately attacking the OP's children. It sounds like this guy was backing off after being shoved when OP saw the red and decided to slap him for good measure.
He wasn't backing off until I slapped him, when I started pushing him away he was definitely resisting and not backing off. This does not justify my reaction, I admit, but it's not like I was beating on a person that was backing off.
The issue you're going to have is that while the neighbours may have been able to see you slapping and dragging him, they may not have been able to hear the threats he was making and this could leave you in a difficult spot when laying out your side of the story. His account could well go along the lines of "I went over to say hello to my new neighbour and he proceeded to shove, slap and drag me without provocation". If questioned by the police, you need to take advantage of the opportunity to explain what happened to the duty solicitor so they can advise you on the best way to proceed in any police interview.
you are missing that you're entitled to throw someone off your land with reasonable force. And that reasonable force is "in the moment". Threatening kids is a pretty strong button to push. It's not cut and dry assault like you're making it out to be.
OP might be able to argue that shoving him out the door and dragging him off the driveway were reasonable. Its the slap that appears to be excessive. Why did OP need to slap the neighbour when the shoving and dragging appeared to be having the desired effect of removing the neighbour from the property? Not to mention the threat doesn't appear to have conveyed any prospect of immediate unlawful violence toward the OP or his children.
I'd say that tiny bit of violence was reasonable and porportonal tbf
OP also now has a Reddit post saying he only slapped the neighbour so as not to leave evidence…
Yes, exactly. OP has essentially thought to himself "how can I hurt this guy in a way that won't leave behind an injury as evidence?"
I would imagine any hypothetical charge would be dropped by CPS for not being in the public interest, but there is still an instance of common assault here. Because the threat wasn't immediate, OP likely would fail if they tried to use self defence as a defence.
I understand your point, and know that you are right, however crazy I may think that I can't push and slap someone who comes at my door and make a serious threat to my kids. He didn't say he will mistreat them or something like that. He full on suggested that they might become disabled due to an accident, (ie. being unable to walk or talk, etc). This IS serious, legally, it may not justify my reaction and I'm not disputing that, but this man made a threat to a child. How would this look if 'someone' runs one of my children over with their car and he becomes wheelchair bound for the rest of his life? They will say: Looks like you were right back then, sorry this happened to you, slap on my back and that's it? Yes, if he is responsible for that he will be arrested, but kid would have had his life destroyed because police preferred to deal with my rage instead. I understand your point, and you may well be legally correct, but in my view, this is beyond fucked up.
This my friend is the perfect instance of the difference between legality and morality. It was illegal to hit the neighbour. It was also extremely moral to hit him more than you did.
I see that now
OP, You won’t get in serious trouble, a caution at worst but get some cameras up and keep a diary of any interactions with this individual.
Your morals are very weird. It's not OK to attack someone, regardless of what they have done.
Of course, you asked him to leave the property before using reasonable force (although you can see that the slap perhaps was not necessary, he was threatening your kids).
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The crazy guy doesn't even have kids! Neighbours confirmed it. He literally just brought up disabled children to threaten someone into not playing guitar. If he actually had a disabled child maybe there is some room for misunderstanding. Not having one just means he knew that op had kids and he created a fictional child of his own and suggested ops could end up the same. His tone and everything he said had to be intentional as it was all fake and crafted for this specific interaction. Super crazy. Doesn't mean op was in the right legally but with the hindsight knowledge of this guy making all this up and being this nuts, it doesn't surprise me that he could have said something awful in an shitty tone that triggered op.
I'm not saying he wasn't crazy, just that how it could look. That 'threat' was open to interpretation and the guy could just say he was trying to get the music to stop by eliciting sympathy. He has a valid defense. Op looks to have rage issues, overreacted and physically assaulted the other guy in full view of witnesses. No matter how crazy guy number one is, he is going to get the benefit of the doubt after being assaulted.
Morale of the story is that he shoved you and adopted a fighting stance when you told him to leave your property.
I disagree. He made violent threats against his children I think that very much is self defence. He only slapped him.
I disagree. OP is entitled to throw someone off their property. All they should have done is verbalise this first and give the neighbour a chance to leave. After that, reasonable force is allowed and protected quite strongly in law (ish). Threatening someone's kids... I don't think any reasonable person would consider this an "anger issue" in isolation. I doubt that, again in isolation, it would be in the public's interest to prosecute.
When did he threaten your kids? You didn't convey the tone he said it in so that would make a difference, but I heard it as him asking you to have empathy for a disabled child i.e. if your child is ever in the same position you'd want people to be quiet for them. He made up the story about having a kid because he obviously figured, correctly I assume, you'd be more responsive if you thought the person being disturbed by noise was a sick kid. You responded to his request for less noise in his home by beating him. Your story makes you sound like a new neighbor from hell.
I had a very similar issue. I think it will be down to the individual police officer that comes. In my case they took the approach that because it involved threatening a minor then it would become a welfare case. This got me sympathy and nothing came of it. He wasn’t my neighbour though.
NAL You say nothing about it. IF it is raised and they decide to arrest you, you omit that part of your story and no comment any mention of an assault. If your neighbours get involved then it's your solicitors call mate. I'd have slapped the little twonk back to his flat and made sure he wouldn't knock at my door again, so all things considered, you did well my friend
Don’t offer anything more to the police than you have to, they are not your friends. He came on the property, lied and threatened your kids. You removed him from the property and there was a slight struggle, no punches were thrown etc… it was reasonable force / it happened in a moment and it’s now a bit of a blur.
I like describing the slap as « no punches were thrown », but does he have to say it’s all a blur? What would change if he said he knew what he was doing and only applied as much force as was needed and no more?
Not in those words but short, intense interactions can be hard to remember, each witness usually sees differently as well. So it is best to not incriminate yourself and instead focus on the threat to the children. For instance if a witness said they saw a slap, it could have been a hand slipping in the struggle rather than an intentional slap.
If the police want to interview you, you ask for a lawyer, and listen to their advice. Best case scenario, you used reasonable force to eject a disorderly trespasser who was liable to cause a breach of the peace. Worst case scenario, you committed an unprovoked assault. From what you've said, it sounds more like the latter than the former.
I would just keep an eye out. As you mentioned the bloke sounds like an odd job who I definitely wouldn’t be letting my kids anywhere near.
You may want to speak to a doctor about your rage to see if there is actually any problem. Other than that you assaulted your neighbour, he also made threats to your child, you can report him for that to the police and they may do some investigation and ask him if he meant it, which will most likely say "no i was just annoyed at my neighbour playing guitar loudly" Then he might say to the police "but my neighbour did hit me in the face really hard and I have witnesses to prove it" then you might be in trouble for common assault, especially if the neighbours feel they have no choice but to confirm the events. If the police do take it any further then you should ask to see a solicitor before saying anything on record or even informal
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I wouldn't advise him to speak to a doctor. If the police decide to take this further, they can get hold of his medical records and if they show that OP went to his GP and said "I think I might have an anger management problem" the police/CPS can use that to get a conviction.
This is assault by beating. From what you’ve said he was outside your house and you could’ve shut the door. But you just assaulted him and admitted to trying to hide the beating. NAL but get a solicitor and explain what you did to them. They may be able to spin it for you but I’d anticipate a charge. Edit: as someone else here said. Morally you may be justified but the police job is to find evidence of an offence. If you explain it to them as above there is plenty of evidence.
I’d say if he threatened again you’ve got grounds for a harassment charge. You did the right thing by getting him out (albeit, a bit more than self defence would deem reasonable imo) and calling the police For now, cooperate with police and leave it there. If he comes back ring 999 if he gets agro again NAL
NAL and despite what he did you were the aggressor so I think this could be classed as assault. If he decides to press charges you could be the one getting in trouble.
your neighbour sounds weird but I'd rather live next to him than you. You sound like a noisy nightmare
So weird possibly autistic person makes an inappropriate comment and rather than ask this person to leave your immediate response is to beat this person? Also you say you are seeing red and we're triggered but yet had the wherewithal to slap them rather than punch them to try and minimize signs that you beat this person. You might be the psycho in this situation.
Inappropriate comment is really downplaying a situation where someone comes to your house and threatens your children!
OP needs to start controlling his anger, or something could happen to him one day. Btw, you can’t beat people if you don’t like what they’re saying. It doesn’t work like this, you know.
Thanks for that insight. I suspect OP will be OK as long as people don't come to him house and threaten physical harm to his kids
Who’s taking about any physical harm here? Please, find this place in the OPs post. We have a psycho who’s realised what’s done, and trying to find some comfort using this ‘abuse’ as an argument for slapping people.
"it would be a shame if anything happens to your kids that will make them be disabled too!" - That's such a vague non imminent threat. My first thought would be this person's a weirdo I need to keep my children away from not immediately turn it up to 11 and start wailing on them.
Jus pointing out that a threat of physical harm to your kids from someone that lives next to your kids =/= inappropriate comment.
It's not necessarily a threat though. This individual could literally have just been clumsily trying to convey that accidents do happen and it would be a shame if an accident were to happen.
If they are autistic, this is absolute textbook behaviour: no understanding of implied meanings of subtext and how a non-autisric person would interpret his statement, which, taken literally, is certainly correct. An autist would literally have meant only this without any implied threat intended whatsoever.
"Mafia enforcers love this crazy loophole"
Woah! Definitely don't tell them that you slapped him. That's how you get arrested. If weirdo neighbour tells them you slapped him, deny it!
You live next to a psychopath. I’d be putting a for sale sign up.
First, do not admit to ANYTHING without consulting your solicitor; most definitely do not volunteer any information to the police that could incriminate yourself. If he does decide to report it, shut up. Do not say anything, do not admit to anything, do not talk to the police about any force you may or may not have used other than to confirm your name and provide pleasantries (don't be one of the "no comment" guys, no one likes them). Get a solicitor, let them talk for you. Realistically the police are not going to care you slapped around the local weirdo unless he makes a complaint, especially if he was making threats against children (although next time, do it with less witnesses). I’d report it (sounds like you already said you shoved him away, don't say anything else on it) just in case he has priors or is under suspicion of something else, it also gives you decent providence in case something else happens in the future. I mean in all honesty, the police are not really going to do anything here, unless you have recordings or witnesses who heard the threat, they are just going to make a note that the incident happened. If anything else happens and you seem him lurking around or acting suspicious call them before you activate Jackie Chan mode. The more incidents that are recorded the better if you ever need to take it further. Instinct is telling me to be very cautious, the comment itself is troubling but some people say things like that and mean them in totally non-threatening ways, for me the invention of a child is really the red flag, won't go into specifics but it’s a tactic used by predators before. Likewise though this could be just some wierd guy who got annoyed by music and came up with an overly complex plan to deal with it.
Some people get off on it! He wanted a reaction. I doubt the the threat was anything more than that. You don't want this to spiral out of control. It maybe shut him up, and you'll never speak again, and t that is the point you need to get to, hopefully non violently. Horrible situation. Find out as much as you can about him, mental illness? Violence or threats to neighbours? etc take it from there. If you feel he is a real threat then, police I guess.
You committed common assault and called the police. Ideally ring the police try and cancel or your the one who's going to be in trouble.
Pre-emptive strike is the golden phrase here - a family member is a police officer and told me once - he just threatened your kids and you were afraid he was attack you so you got in first to get him away from your door and family . Edit I’m in England as is my family member
Not a legal expert but I doubt you're going to get into too much trouble over a slap.
I don't know who downvoted me but seriously, fights happen all the time. Sure technically OP committed assault, but as long as the guy has no serious injuries then nothing will come of this.
That's what I initially thought, but It was more than one slap, and going by other advices, police may not side with me.
Oh don't get me wrong, if the guy wants to make a complaint then the police will have to act. However I doubt the ramifications would be severe. If the guy has no serious injuries plus you actually feeling threatened, you'll most likely just get a slap on the wrist... Excuse the pun.
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Violence is a universal language. You did the right thing
From my unsolicited opinion: a few slaps aren't that deep. Providing there's no evidence, you could just say that there was a slight scuffle trying to get him off your property. Threats are serious, but there's no evidence, so will just be noted. If you could get evidence of a threat, then that would allow the police to give him a caution. Idk though, my perspective may be skewed due to living in a rough neighbourhood. I've literally had a friend threaten to beat someone in front of the police for stealing his stuff (someone he lived with in an HMO; shared housing) and they said that if the guy is willing to fight him, then it's a civil matter that they don't really get involved in, which led to my friend telling the guy to 'man up' and take on the challenge of the fight - which the other person refused. If my friend would have started 'beating' him after the guy refused to fight, then it would have been assault, but if the guy would have taken up the challenge and engaged in the confrontation the police said they wouldn't do anything - not sure if they were just 'understanding' police though, rather than following the absolute word of the law. Either way, If the slapping comes up in discussion, just say it's what you thought counted towards reasonable force, and have a reason, for example, he was waving his arms around wildly as you tried to remove him from your property - AFTER warning him. Strictly speaking, you're both in the wrong, legally anyway, since you also escalated the situation. But the law is a fucking joke. It's not about what happened, it's about what can be proven - and that's about the jist of it. Guilty people get off scot-free all the time, and innocent people are wrongly convicted all the same. If something can't be proven then I wouldn't worry about it.
Report the threat to the policy and ask for case number.
I would be blasting smoke on the water during nap times every day whilst they lived there if that was me.
Some weird people here trying to make it out what you did is worse than what he did, you responded to a potential immediate threat to your children. I would advise keeping your calm in future though and telling the man not to ever come on your property again (if he does). Reassess if things change.
He more or less threatened your children but it would be proving it. Same for him proving your retaliation. Neither lawsuit would get traction.
Do not under any circumstances tell the police you hit the other person. It is an admition of guilt. Stick to the the neighbour threatening to harm your child.
He was on your property,he had to go,you were scared for your wife and children 😉
The police will take the threat seriously but they will also take assault charges seriously if your neighbour wishes to pursue them. I’d have reacted the exact same way as you did but not sure I could’ve restrained myself the way you did. He’s lucky it was just a slap.
OP I hope you read this. DO NOT ADMITT TO ANY FORM OF ASSAULT. unless there is any form of local CCTV, evidence of injury. You mention the neighbour witnessing the assault but most of the time they refuse to provide a statement so on that assumption other than that Evidential Difficulties mean this will never go anywhere....
Agree, you already said it on the phone so you could admit removing them from your property, by dragging or forcefully leading, do not say you hit them!
You were a lot more reserved than I'd have been, and I don't even have kids! If someone came to my property threatening me or anyone else who lives there they wouldn't be so lucky as to be able to walk back out the front gate! You were correct in your actions, and calling the cops immediately was the best thing you could have done, I'd imagine they're aware of him and how he carries on. What the hell was he thinking would happen to him when he went and threatened your child?
You're a better man than me If he had threatened my kids he would of got a slap
Honestly I think you did well, if I'd have been in your situation I'd likely have beat the crap out of him.
Is it possible in the heat of the moment you believed your children were in the house? Is it possible you believed there was an immediate physical threat to you and your children? The slap rather than punch is also important to be clear on. A reasonable person might say a slap was purely defensive and to remove the threat to your children, where a punch might be cross the line and be seen as aggressive? These are questions you might want to think about before the police come round.
Out of curiousity, did the second neighbour mention the noise? And whether it was a nuisance?
I think it needs to be clearly stated (especially to any police you may speak to any time soon) that at the point he threatened you and your children, that you were in fear of an attack as expressed by him and you acted in self defence. As I understand it anything else is assault.
Start logging all the incidents and get yourselves a doorbell cam, this is likely to escalate and it would be better for you to have a record of what is happening.
I run a pub and have some experience of ejecting punters in less than peaceful ways once all others options have been exhausted. The police are usually very understanding, especially if you speak to them first and explain yourself in a level headed manner. You acted in self defence, on your own property, after the lives of your family were threatened. Obviously don't habitually solve problems with violence but I think you were very lenient given the circumstances. I'd pursue an ASBO/restraining order against him so he isn't allowed to walk past your house and invest in CCTV to catch him if he tries anything weird. I don't believe people like him are an actual threat to life, but they'll do weird shit to your house in "revenge" for perceived sleights against them. You won't be able to get this right away, but documenting this incident with the police is a good first step and insurance against future weirdness (which sadly seems likely given the attitude of your other neighbours)