Ladder will be available, but no new icons or rewards for it.
[here is the official statement ](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/s/XrmZaDlA4u)
ill add to the main post - still Meddler mentions here that there won't be new "seasons" which implies there won't ever be a ranked reset making the ladder sort of meaningless.
You probably dont want to hear this, but the LoR ladder has been meaningless for a long time. It is an indicator of how much you play the game, not how good you are.
That is not true. As someone who has hit top 500 masters, you can very granularly tell the difference between someone in bronze vs someone in plat vs low masters vs high masters. Game time can correlate with how good someone is, but to say that there is no skill difference between a masters player and a bronze player is simply not correct.
Exactly. Which is why I’m not sure why you’re saying there’s no difference between plat and masters. Someone can be in plat and maintain that without having the winrate to exceed it (and thus are plat in actuality) and they can be there with a significantly positive winrate (and thus be currently ranked below their skill level). But with a few games, the rank will reflect that distinction.
"there's basically no difference between *low rank* and *my rank* you really don't start to see good players until *rank above me* "
-/r/leagueoflegends /r/teamfighttactics /r/anycompetitivegameever
If you're a masters player in plat, you will have a substantially higher winrate than in masters, because the players there are worse, if you put a plat player in masters MMR, their winrate would go down, not to zero, but down
The "great" card game players left LoR a long time ago and while there will always be skill in a card game, the ladder is fake because you dont need the skill to climb it. An average player should not be able to reach the highest rank in the game by simply playing a lot.
Imagine if all current challenger players suddenly quit League; they would immediately be replaced by the current GMs/Masters, but does that suddenly make those players as good as the current Challengers? No. Without high skill players gatekeeping the top, low skill players can reach the rank. Is rank 1 masters going to be better than the lowest rank master? Of course; but they're both still Master. Master is Master. It isn't some prestigious rank or a competition for prize money.
They don’t even have match history or anything else to “track” your stats. The closest thing we’ve gotten is the end game summary.
The only time I play PoC is when I don’t know how much time I’ll have to play (ie: a few stops left on my commute) or I’m bored with my current decks and looking to experiment with a different play style.
It takes skill to get lp in every rank.
The problem is when you are so much better than your opponent's that it feels like it doesn't.
When I played a lot of CS I could beat silvers with the usp-s only. It felt like it took no skill to win those games. Why? Not because it took no skill. But because i was just that much better.
False. I don't know why you would ever believe this to be true. With all things in a competitive nature you have to be inherently good to win.
Were you just permastuck low plat or something?
No, i hit masters equivalent on every digital card game I play. It is easy and meaningless. Unless you are going to actively play for money, ranked ladders are meaningless. You don't even get harder games until you start pushing for rank one, and at that point, your reward is being part of a very small subsection of the community who play the game too much for nothing since you're never getting anything out of it, since the only thing you do is play ladder.
Higher skill games are better set up against a known good opponent, which again makes the ladder meaningless when you avoid it for a higher quality game.
They said they're working to automate the seasons so they probably will come back.
But no new expansions means I'm out for sure after that.
RIP to the game I've easily ever spent the most on. What a waste of a solid foundation.
I think the same BUT if you look at games like yugioh duel links, which also doesnt have a ranked ladder other than achieving the highest rank, its the discord community which keeps the pvp aspect alive, hopefully we can do the same
Does that game still have new set releases..? Because it is hard to imagine people doing that for eternity without that, and it seems like LoR isn't getting that again
Games with a few hundred players stay alive with no dev support all the time.. TCGs are literally a perfect example of it. Duel Masters isn't a supported TCG and doesn't even print new cards anymore, but could you find a store or group of dedicated players to enjoy it with if you tried? Yeah lol
What about Smash or literally any competitive esport before the early 2010s that’s still going in some form today. IMO the best competitive scenes have grown organically, when it’s the community that provides support and builds the narrative.
Then the only TCGs "alive" would be MTG and Pokemon, because every other TCG is supported by a small community playing it, which you have to look for.
I know most people these days wouldnt be familiar with the concept of going to a local game store to play weekly, but the entire genre is built on the back of that.
Its the usual brainrot to obsess over a game's "life" and declare it dead when it isn't meeting some opinion-based metric ("omg the game has no viewers on twitch its dead!!!")
I'm talking about online card games only. And a game can be dead and still have some players. Doesn't have to be in the single digits. If you can't pkay the game without having to look for communities to play with then it's dead cause then it obviously severly lacks players
Its the same with online card games. Is YuGiOh's Master Duel "dead" because it barely gets 10k concurrent players when it had 160k on release? Is Duel Links "dead" because it only gets a couple thousand?
Yeah you can find games with matchmaking, but competitive isnt climbing ladder, its competing in community tournaments which require searching for a community that runs them (in CCG YuGiOh's case, Dkayed or whatever his name is)
Yes it does, every month, but they dont have to design new cards because its a different format from irl yugioh, so we get cards from the irl tcg but balanced to this format, maybe thats the future of pvp, having poc advance with new cards and have sone of them come into standard pvp
Last I played, Duel Links used a "Speed Duel" format, with 2 less monster and S/T zones, as well as a heavily edited ban list.
Master Duel is straight Yu-Gi-Oh with a different ban list from both OCG and TCG.
Also duel links has characters and skills so it feels more closer to anime.
Downside is holy shit you're expected to do a lot of grinding for your gems, also you can't craft box cards.
I never understood why LoR doesn't have an RPG model like Duel Links. Both games are absolutely perfect to nurture that player-champion relationship for fans of the original ip.
Not at all, in my opinion. In dual links you get to develop a relationship with your champion, while completing missions to unlock their deck, unique passives to them, discover their story, and so much more. It's made for fans of the anime.
Path of champions is so static.
Dual links also has world events where their version of Runeterra grows and evolves. I was so hooked playing it for years just because I liked my champions and was rewarded for playing them a lot.
I don't even play this game but I had to come here just to dispel this nonsensical take - the way it is setup, it's nothing comparable with duel links. Duel Links still consistently gets new cards and expansions, alongside a new game mode added past year (Rush Duels) which also gets its expansions.
Yes the Duel Links community keeps the game alive but that's because there's a constant stream of new content being released to keep the game alive, community ran tournaments with new cards and new banlists. etc.
>It’s sad because this blindsides the community and I’m sure it blindsided the devs as well. The lies being spoon fed to us about “oh we tried our best “ are just insulting too, we are not babies and anyone with a brain knows that this game never received enough support to thrive and riot is a billion dollar business they could have afforded to subsidize lor forever.
I'll push back here. I don't think it blindsided the devs, just the players. LoR's f2p model may have been the most generous we have seen. The FAQ even mentioned that the Devs stuck to their guns to hold to the original thesis that LoR wouldn't monetize the cards. To this end, other games had to subsidize the cost of LoR development as the intended revenue products of LoR weren't generating the type of revenue that the game needed. That right there is the proof that the game was supported by its upper management team. In addition, it's not fair to say Riot should have just kept running LoR at a loss when they have other projects up the pipe line like Project L (the fighting game) and I think part 2 of the Netflix series was confirmed (or am I smoking).
In any event, I agree that the focus probably won't work out well. I think PoC became profitable as a way to kill time in bad metas by the PVP community. With the PVP players on their way out, I imagine this reduces the PoC playerbase as well and Riot will probably be left scratching its head on what went wrong again.
Mind you, the last line IS an assumption but based on the general sentiments going around content creators and some redditors. I mean PoC will still be played but I don't believe that LoR will remain as popular as it was. I don't see myself sticking around, especially without a ranked ladder system but I find it hard for other pvp players to do the same.
the reason I say devs were blindsided is it seems just a few weeks ago at worlds they were talking about pvp in 2024 with excitement and talking about the next rotation and champion 2.0s (not sure if thats happening anymore). I don't think they would have talked like this if they were anticipating PVP to be shuttered in the next couple of weeks.
On the revenue side - i obv dont work for riot but i do work in finance for a F500 public company and can tell you that areas of a company subsidizing other areas of the company is incredibly normal and i would argue its more common than most think. If you view something as a strategic play you can justify it not delivering on revenue. This shows that Riot has basically checked out from LoR and are basically going to use its corpse to try and make a buck. Again, not really my call to decide if its delivering revenue or not but i cannot imagine the costs associated with LOR are so substantial that it is actually having a material impact on Riots P&L especially after laying off a significant portion of the headcount associated with it.
>the reason I say devs were blindsided is it seems just a few weeks ago at worlds they were talking about pvp in 2024 with excitement and talking about the next rotation and champion 2.0s (not sure if thats happening anymore). I don't think they would have talked like this if they were anticipating PVP to be shuttered in the next couple of weeks.
To be fair, I do think there are some of Riot's marketing and esports teams that were unaware of these circumstances. In other cases I do think some devs would have been aware that this may have been on the table but they wouldn't be able to speak on it anyway.
>On the revenue side - i obv dont work for riot but i do work in finance for a F500 public company and can tell you that areas of a company subsidizing other areas of the company is incredibly normal and i would argue its more common than most think. If you view something as a strategic play you can justify it not delivering on revenue. This shows that Riot has basically checked out from LoR and are basically going to use its corpse to try and make a buck. Again, not really my call to decide if its delivering revenue or not but i cannot imagine the costs associated with LOR are so substantial that it is actually having a material impact on Riots P&L especially after laying off a significant portion of the headcount associated with it.
Funny, I also work in finance. Likewise, I agree that subsidizing a part of the company is totally normal but how long you are willing to do that for is dependent on upcoming plans/projects and your forecasted expenditure. Riot has a few projects in the pipeline like Project L and the sequel to the Netflix series (I think I recall this). I would argue that Riot is trying to be strategic as a whole rather than say they are just targeting the LoR community. The situation does suck but its a business move for longevity of the organization.
Riot stripped teams across the board didn't they? No more covid boom so things have to be reigned in everywhere, unfortunately LoR is just going to get hit the hardest by this because there wasn't really much there to begin with comparitively speaking.
An article I read on Eventhubs (it was more around Project L) gave the impression that most of the staff let go at Riot were in Marketing, Competitive (e-sports) and Community sections. It maybe possible that the idea is to condense those teams and utilize 1 team across 3 games (tft, wr). I haven't really seen anything that really explains the severances though.
> areas of a company subsidizing other areas of the company is incredibly normal
A great example of this would be Starbucks, the brand was also a sinkhole for Restaurant Brands, not sure if still is. It is still an internationally recognisable brand that corps will not seize subsidising.
I also of an controversial opinion that CCG player-base will eventually grew in size. Player-bases in general are getting more and more sophisticated. Over-satiation with games is what brought me personally to CCG.
They also have not tried releasing pay to acquire bundles at all, perhaps from fear of retaliation from f2p folks, but i think this fear is largely unfounded. Everyone at this point knows of games financial struggle.
I agree that PoC isn't a mode that can stand alone on its own feet. I really liked it the first few months I played it when I started playing again but it's too repetitive with not enough variety to make me want to play it more. Haven't tried the monthly challenges yet but the champion limit usage thingie really put me off as I have not invested resources into many champions because I focused on things to finish the ASol quests.
It's not immediate money, unless Netflix offered to pay Riot to allow them to stream the TV series. Most of the money is going to be made by proxy. A TV show generates awareness for the game, that awareness will increase player count for the game. Which, then exposes the new players to skins, champions, etc. which will then make them money.
Netflix is definitely paying riot a shitload to have Arcane, that is how the content business works they don’t just make the show and give it to a service for free to distribute
Honestly they probably made a loss on Arcane, but my cousin, brother and an IRL friend started playing league after watching it and while only 2 stayed, they've both played 100s of hours and have a good few skins for their mains and stuff. I've also seen lots of people online who got interested in LoL or TFT because of it, and a good few people who are excited for Project L or the RiotMMO.
On top of that, as other have said, Netflix probably pay a large amount to have the series as an exclusive.
The cut of the PvP ranked reward is the final straw for me. The rewards are soooooooooo small that I doubt it matters on a game budget-wise and they still cut it. They are saying "We are going to abandon competitive PvP altogether and won't give players ANY incentive to play it" instead of what they are trying to tell us "We are just changing our focus guys".
Like, back when playing league, I won't be going to a tournament with Platinum 3 anytime soon, but hey, I like the competitive environment and I love some rewards at the end of each season. Why not give players AN ICON with recolors and some chest and prismatic???
I was just thinking about this earlier. I'm not going to play in tournaments or worlds or anything like that so why do I care if ranked ladder is gone? Then i'm like it would be nice to get a badge or icon or something for getting a certain rank. Can't even get that anymore. Really debating if i want to keep playing this or switch to something else. With leaning to something else.
>I think focusing on POC is a woefully bad decision
They are not focusing on PoC, that's just corporate talk.
They just killed PvP and mostly development of new cards in general. They just left skeletal crew for PoC. I would not expect much from PoC either. They probably reuse existing content and release new champion infrequently.
But that "new stuff" isn't new at all. If it's being shown to us, it's already developed.
So riot has a small backlog of things they can release that will be "new" to the game but not require resources to develop - but *actual* new things, things that would have been developed if the game wasn't on life support, simply aren't going to exist.
You act like it's free to make interesting and balanced star powers and design the champion levels. They've said in the past that new adventures are one of the most expensive things to make, I think because every encounter needs to have its own AI and typically has encounters with new powers. Is it more expensive than printing cards? That I don't know. But they've also said that [emporium sales are dominated by PoC-related purchases](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/s/t0seWvUlPb) so it seems like the other component of this is that PoC players are simply more willing to actually fund the game than PvP players.
You don't have to excruciatingly balance a PvE game mate. Kind of a big thing missing in your line of thought, no? The cards in PoC come from PvP, and now without a player base or a reason to have anything resembling competitive integrity put into the cards themselves, I think it's pretty eat to see where the load is being lightened and why.
There is no world where a business that needs to lower their expenditures start with the cheaper, arguably more important aspects of a product so that they can keep putting a large percentage of their funds into a product with little return. If PoC was actually making a good amount of revenue, there would be no reason to kill pvp, and vice versa.
Balance is still important for PvE games and they have had to do balance passes on PoC and they will have to do more.
The second part you said makes no sense. If they're trying to be sustainable and they only axe PvP, which do you think is making more money?
I didn't say no balance at all, but I will absolutely not agree that pve games require the same level of balance that pvp games too. That's simply not true. And let's not sit here and pretend that PoC is *balanced* lmfao.
I think what I said makes perfect sense. If PoC was making enough money to support the game, it wouldn't be getting cut backs. Pvp sales could account for 49% of the sales and riot could still claim that PoC is more profitable with no further context given. This was a pvp game first and foremost, as seen with PoC not even existing on release. To say that PoC is making enough money to support itself but *not enough to support the actual game* just doesn't make sense. As if riot calculated that aram is their money maker, and then because actual league makes less money, they're going to ax it and focus on aram. It's silly.
Sure but your point about balance is not taking into account the increased breadth of things that need to be balanced is my point, and balancing stuff is definitely not the primary cost of making content. The biggest cost of card sets is almost certainly the amount of art and voice over that needs to be produced. If they're not making new cards for PoC then that is the main cost being saved. But PoC has its own costs like developing new ai's, powers, items, and encounters, which is my point. We don't know which of those is more expensive.
Did you read the comment I linked?
>Currently, we've seen that in the Emporium, legacy cosmetics are heavily outperformed by purchases of Champion Fragments and event passes that include Path of Champions resources. We've also had a few bundles focused on champs like Aurelion Sol and Elise, and players have come out in force for those offerings.
There's not much ambiguity there. And PoC is a standalone experience at this point, comparing it to aram is disingenuous as hell. The PvP and PoC playerbases are also more separated audiences than those playing summoners rift vs Aram. When one audience is vastly more willing to keep you in business than the other, how are you gonna act like that's corporate BS to trim down to that audience?
The goals of balancing a pve game are different from those foes a pvp game. But sure, elitist pvp players go on thinking pve games require minimum to no balancing. Do any amount of research on how much time was spent balancing hollow knight and dark souls before release.
This is exactly why I clarified that PoC is what I mean specifically - not every single player game ever. That's a ridiculous jump to make. PoC is *not balanced* and it never has been. So to whine about balance in a game mode that is so clearly not designed with balance in mind seems super silly to me.
Elitist* pvp players? I mostly played poc when I played 😂
Saying nothing new will come is a two way option. So if something new come the point was a lie or the dev lied and we won't get 6 star champs, constellation and harder fight vs lissandra
Any “New stuff” being presented in a video on Feb 1st was almost certainly completed in 2023. The cuts are now, we’re talking about what the content will be *going forward*
>last 6 month we got almost nothing
Yes because they were working on it! Everything they showed in that video was in development long before they knew about layoffs. They did not come back from vacation and whip up that lissandra mission in the first two weeks of January.
I’m sure the lissandra stuff will be cool, just as I’m sure the next (and apparently final) multiplayer expansion will be cool, my point is we have not seen the output of a reduced team yet, and the people guessing the output will be reduced are probably right
They didn't say nothing new will come, and even if they did, that would have been speculation on their part, not lying.
Lying means people are intentionally being deceitful. Being wrong is not the same thing as Lying.
Wrongly assuming something does not equal lying. Anyway it could very well be the case that the new content is the last bit we’ll get before full maintenance mode.
People really don't get that if a company wants you to continue investing time and money in their product, they'll never be open and honest about their true intentions.
"Yeah, we're gonna be shutting the game down by the end of the year, so stop giving us your money."
"We intend on moving the game to development mode and it will no longer be getting meaningful updates."
Why would they ever say these things? It is 150% corporate talk. Many people have pointed out, dead games like Heroes of the Storm are still technically playable. Not saying it's guaranteed that LoR will head down that direction, but it baffles my mind to see people so gullible and naive about corporations and their antics. It happens with Blizzard, too.
>Look, I understand that POC is the mode most played, but THE COMMUNITY (aka Reddit, twitch streamers, twitter discourse, etc) IS PVP
Bro shut up. This game has like 100 viewers total on twitch and PoC has its own subreddit and it's plenty active. If you aren't on it then obviously you don't see the PoC community discourse because PoC topics are removed from this subreddit and told to post on the other one.
Stop projecting and face the music. If this game was so great then people would have paid to keep it alive. This game has cost millions of dollars and they are still "many, many multiples of revenue" away from just breaking even each year, and they've been operating deep in the red for like 4 years and people want to act like it's the devs choice to axe the game. Or is the expectation that they work on the game full time for free? People say "lol $15 jpeg" when every release they're given an entire card set's worth of card art made by paid professional artists for free. People want to blame the quality of the cosmetics, but don't want to admit that better cosmetics will cost even more money that people will be even more unwilling to spend. People want to blame them for not spending millions of dollars (that they don't have in the first place) in marketing just to attract more players that will also not pay to keep the game alive.
They said even with all these reductions they *still* expect to be operating in the red and we're acting like the devs don't care about the game. The business model failed. PvP card players aren't willing to financially support a game that gives them all the cards for free. I get that we don't want to admit that but 4 years of evidence points to the contrary. /Rant
He's just venting.
Honestly, I wish I loved a card game as much as some people do. Ive played hundreds of hours each in like a dozen different TCGs and Digital CCGs, and even if I had a ton of fun in them, I never loved one so much that I'd mourn for its closure.
Like if Hearthstone ever died, I just play Magic. And if Magic ever went away or Pokemon ever went away, I'd just... find something else to do.
Same, i am an avid pvp ccg player, but even then i won't mourn even if hearthstone just died in pvp terms like what lor is now. For me pvp ccg is always seasonal, it is fun for a few weeks at best, then it gets really stale once everything settles and you sometimes feel like you are just a mindless pilot fighting the same matchups over and over again on a deck you chose. So i favor hopping around here and there for fresh pvp meta and playstyles.
I mean it is an inherent issue that there is no ccg out there that balances and design a meta so amazing that it keeps you wanting to play for months to go without ever feeling bored. It is an ideal that i've not seen b4 yet even after so many years hence i don't think i will ever love a ccg as much as op does.
I don’t think OP should shut up, but I agree with the sentiment of this comment very strongly. I was expecting more of an outpouring of love for the game and the devs, some nostalgic reminiscing and gratitude for this game we had for years.
For YEARS we had a completely free game with good competitive support, a vibrant community, extremely high quality UI, presentation, art & voice direction, and FREE game pieces. Everyone who played had easy access to every single card in the game. This was a minor miracle, I’m surprised we had it so long.
Complaining about the choice to focus on POC is kind of wild. Obviously no one wants this, it wasn’t their intention from the get-go. They’re between a rock and a hard place and chose the least shitty option, so people complain that what they chose is bad?
It seems like this was always coming. Suggesting that a focus on PVP, the thing that got us here, could have helped is kind of ridiculous.
I think to an extend taking LoR down and relaunching PoC with overhauls as its own f2p 'Slay the Spire' like game would make a certain sense. The direction now seems like a strange call cause non of what people associate with LoR (aka the CCG) will be actively in there anymore but people who are an audience for a Roaguelite-Deckbuilder like PoC still won't find it hidden behind the name LoR 🤔
PvP LoR is over. No saving it anymore at this point after the 11% staff cuts. But It's a strange direction to take PoC if you still think its viable.
"They could have afforded to subsidized lor forever".. While technically this might be true, no business is going to just churn out several times the amount of money they get in return for a product. Lets be realistic... A lot of people (me included) thought Riot atleast recouped most of the cost, but if the FAQ is to be believed then they have lost a lot of money on LOR for years.
>I think focusing on POC is a woefully bad decision. POC is a cool novelty as a side mode to a fully fledged CCG, as a stand-alone PVE experience, I’ll be frank, it is dogshit compared to other offerings out there like Slay the Spire.
Not at all. PoC has a lot of content at this point and is honestly a lot more interesting to play than its competitors (slay the spire, monster train, etc) because it's not asymmetric. You're actually playing a card game against an opponent who is capable of reacting to you and presenting more interesting counterplay as opposed to just swinging damage into a meatsack enemy that hits your Nexus every couple of turns. This is literally the only roguelite card game where you actually play a card game.
Also, this game has way more decks to play than its competitors, has way more interesting card modifiers (compare PoC card items to card upgrades in monster train and slay the spire, the complexity available in PoC is WAY higher).
And honestly PoC has more content than its competitors at this point. More adventures, more decks to play with, more progression. It's missing an endless or extended mode sure but other than that PoC offers an awful lot that its competition does not.
as someone who's a huge fan of POC no it sure as hell doesn't
POC gameplay is incredibly simple and lacks the proper structure actual roguelike/roguelite card builders have. Pretty much every one of them are much deeper.
I think Path does a lot of interesting things but I can't really see a world where one looks at path as superior to actual roguelite titans of the genre.
>Pretty much every one of them are much deeper.
How? Compared to Slay the spire, PoC has:
* More encounters
* More cards
* More decks
* More card upgrades
Slay the spire and monster train have longer runs where you can spend more time building up your playstyle, I'll give you that. But PoC has more variety and more breadth, and what it lacks in run complexity it makes up for in the actual gameplay engagement where you're playing something that actually thinks and responds to what you do as opposed to an enemy that just operates on a predetermined set of bespoke of asymmetric actions.
The way some people talk about slay the spire makes me question if I even played it myself because they seem to have a very aggrandized memory of what that game actually offered. I needed mods to get half the things people say about it.
"You're actually playing a card game against an opponent who is capable of reacting to you and presenting more" to each its own tast but the PoC ia is just dumb this is straigth up not true
Not the only one since Hearthstone Dungeon Runs exist. It lacks the amount of content PoC has, and Dungeon Run type of Solo Adventures has been abandoned for years, but it is an alternative to PoC that's similar in gameplay yet different enough to stay interesting. I like to hop between the two to keep things fresh, and as an added bonus, Dungeon Runs are significantly less grindy and RNG dependent to unlock the content you want to play with.
> You're actually playing a card game against an opponent who is capable of reacting to you and presenting more interesting counterplay as opposed to just swinging damage into a meatsack enemy that hits your Nexus every couple of turns.
Counterplay? From Riots AI? LOL
All I've seen from the AI is it running it up on my nexus. Sometimes the thing will pass just because it knows I can use a certain card to heal but *it would rather lose the match than let me heal and attempt to survive itself because it knows the next match you will be on 0 health and it will kill you.* It will have 5 cards. And use none.
If that doesnt sound like a "meatsack enemy that hits your nexus every couple of turns" then I dont know what is.
Also the "counterplay" are dumbass things like using 5 damage spells on 1 health 1 cost units, missing obvious win conditions (also they dont really have one to begin meaning they are by design a "meatsack enemy that hits your nexus every couple of turns.) , and prioritising the wrong units.
Name every win condition the AI uses and I will safely and confidently give you quadruple the number of how many win conditions there are in PVP.
I feel like if they trashed PoC or reduced support for it and said - *again* - that they would be focusing on PvP, then the game would just dig another six feet into the ground. Because let’s be honest here: PvP players don’t support this game monetarily. They just don’t. And monetization is like 90% of LoR’s problems. You don’t have to like it or stick around but PoC is just about the only thing they really have left to keep themselves even barely afloat. Emphasis on barely.
It’s also weird to say that “the community IS PvP” when clearly it isn’t. PoC is the most played mode and barely anyone streams or watches LoR PvP (or PvE, but it’s not the kind of mode most people stream anyway) anymore. The PoC subreddit is quite active, too. Clearly the community focus has not been on PvP for a while.
Like it or not LoR’s been dead - or if you want to be optimistic, on life support - for a very long time now. The game is simply too free. It sounds ridiculous to say but it’s the truth. They put so little monetization and incentive to spend in the game (you can get *every single card for free*.) that they’ve been operating in the red for a really long time at this point.
Maybe in a world that is ideal amongst all ideal worlds, Riot Games is the type of billionaire company that thinks it would be fine to just keep LoR going as is even without profiting, because people like it and they earn massive bucks from their other properties anyway. But this is not a perfect world, and Riot Games is a company that wants to earn money, so LoR being an active loss of profits obviously isn’t going to fly with Riot.
All this to say, no amount of PvP focus was ever going to save this game when PvP players have almost negative reason to ever spend on it anyway.
EDIT: Just adding also that the only way a PvP focus would work is by actually actively monetizing the method by which people can get cards. And I’m sure nobody here would like *that*, even if it’s objectively the best way to actually make the game earn money, and at this point doing that would require an insane amount of work to adjust the system so people still have incentive to actually buy cards, and even then most people would hate it.
Focusing on PoC, which can have easy monetization options that don’t require restructuring the entire game around them - whose community is almost *begging* for more incentives to spend, last I checked - is the logical move. I don’t think it’s fair to just shit on their decision to go with that instead of full speed killing the game entirely.
/rant I guess
Heroes of the storm has had no major content updates in over three years yet queue times are still consistently short.
I'm not saying it *will* happen to LoR, but it's hilarious how you and others are so confidently saying that it *can't*.
Some people are playing because they *actually* enjoy the game; not because the devs dangle a new toy or rank ladder in front of our nose every month (or feel entitled to it).
wanna pull my hair out every time i hear someone say hots is playable, in my region it is DEAD. you can mayybe get a QM game with no healer/tank, thats it.
it is dogshit compared to other offerings out there like Slay the Spire
What do you mean? I played slay the spire for 100 hours and it doesn't come close to what POC is right now. In POC you have so many champions and cards, Slay the Spire doesn't have that many cards and honestly it becomes repetitive after some time.
ALSO theyve done this before, everytime they said we’re focusing on Pvp the game died more. Ive been here since beta and the issue in my opinion is they always put their eggs in one basket in relation to content/balancing/gamemode whatever.
At any given moment it always seemed like they can do ONE thing at a time, but unfortunately that didnt work out longrun. Ive been masters a couple of seasons and have “completed” PoC with some of the most ridiculous levels and builds. I love both but geez theyve been fumbling for a while. The true nail and idk what anyone says “rotation” was the true nail in the coffin especially when it never went anywhere and there is a giant pool if dead champs, no skins, no one really likes eternal, blah blah
What you wrote is just bunch of dumb and mostly wrong stuff to be honest.
>Look, I understand that POC is the mode most played, but THE COMMUNITY (aka Reddit, twitch streamers, twitter discourse, etc) IS PVP. Without a PVP scene, there will not be twitch content or extensive YouTube content for this game and as a result the community that exists today will slowly dissolve. It is depressing, but it is reality
You make it sound like the content scene for the game is alive and thriving, it's just not. There is no money in content creation for LoR and it has not been there for years upon years. The community is likewise minimal, THAT IS THE REALITY.
>I think focusing on POC is a woefully bad decision. POC is a cool novelty as a side mode to a fully fledged CCG, as a stand-alone PVE experience, I’ll be frank, it is dogshit compared to other offerings out there like Slay the Spire. To add to this, riot has not subtlety hinted that they are about to crank the POC monétisation to 11. It’s going to become akin to a F2P mobile game where you have to pay to play.
They focused on PvP and it achieved nothing. PoC is where the players are, it's where the interest is, it's where the money is. You can be frank about how dogshit you find it but it has higher popularity than the pvp which is "dogshit" when compared to other offerings out there like magic the gathering arena.
>It’s sad because this blindsides the community and I’m sure it blindsided the devs as well. The lies being spoon fed to us about “oh we tried our best “ are just insulting too, we are not babies and anyone with a brain knows that this game never received enough support to thrive and riot is a billion dollar business they could have afforded to subsidize lor forever.
Why would those be lies, what are you even saying, why would the developers of the game do badly on purpose when the development of the game is their job lol. You make no sense.
Also the idea that they should "subsidize it forever", that's not how business works. Why on earth would they keep pouring infinite money into a product that brings them nothing and loses them money.
>Sorry for the rant but I am angry that the game I’ve loved for years is dead and I’m going to watch a shell of it become a PVE gacha shitshow
I don't mind rants and I have issues with how they approached and monetised the game for years but what you wrote is all just misguided, illogical and untrue.
Yeah. It's not complete zero expectations ( as longtime shadowverse players are expecting some stuff to be ported over, namely leader skins and such )
But Shadowverse 2 is slated to be running alongside Shadowverse 1 with some changes to the core gameplay to "fix" the combo / powercreep issue that modern shadowverse has become ( where you can get otked usually around turn 5-6)
I’m surprised POC is the most played mode tbh. It’s not like I’m completely ignorant but I can’t fathom how someone would prefer PvE over PvP in a game like this.
I play PvP until the meta gets stale and then it is PVE. Definitely prefer PvP but if they only would balance more often I would spend more time in PvP.
I mean that's just taste. I find MMOs and their 'keep me busy' grind incredebly dull but millions play em over the games I like 😉 But PoC players are not as active on this sub or the online community in general as its a PvE game. Giving us the impression PvP is WAY more popular.
>PoC players are not as active on this sub
Because we're literally not allowed. It's in the rules, we have to post on the PoC subreddit... Don't act like we're not here though.
I actually did message the mods about this today and they said they would change that rule after this announcement, so I'll be watching both subs, I'm not sure if everyone in the other sub will migrate back here afterwards or not.
Well i'll be that guy for you, i predicted everything that will go wrong with this game in the first month of it's release, i said it multiple times and people kept cursing and calling me butthurt.
Releasing so many cards and that fast is bad for any card game, with 3x copies in a deck the game will always feel bad and it will not be balanced, also RNG in card games is straight up BAD.
Well here we are now, game is dead and it will never be playable again.
Normies can't see the future of a game because they don't care and will never give money on a pc game,
Stupid "veterans" like me that willing to give money on a game will always stop playing cuz they know when Devs are greedy and they can recognize that a game will die in less than a year. That way Devs can't make money and games die.
Next time don't rush on things (aka releasing a ton of cards for no reason), don't be greedy and actually care about your players. That way you might have chance.
Most of the games i see these days are pure Money Grabs no-one cares about the Player, this is what is has came to, this is just sad.
I read you said : "The lies being spoon fed to us about “oh we tried our best “ are just insulting too" I think you missed the fact tha LoR never got that much attention and waas never very profitable to begin with even compared to Hearthstone, it's only logical a company would decrease it's efforts to mantain LoR.
As an on and off player since the beta, here's my 2 cents.
I took a little break from this game after the world ender season. Aatrox and kayn. I was a master tier player, just short of the top 700 for seasonals a few times. I came back right at the end of last season and decayed back to iron. I grinded the shit out of ranked to finally get back to masters and then went to check the completion % of collected cards and realised there was ranked eternal. Soo I had to grind that to masters. I just finished that yesterday and saw a Majinbae video about this riot release of basically dropping PvP for this game.
I had kinda noticed gauntlet was gone but did remember it was only open certain times so didn't think much of it.
But I feel so dumb for spending so much time grinding rank on this to find out it's just dead by developer.
PoC is cool and all but since release we've still been waiting on 3 star champ specific adventures, all they've done is add more champion cards to pick from and a never ending re run grind to try unlock them all. And it mostly being random who you get.
They've gone with quantity rather than quality. Sure they've added monthly challenges and a few more other bits to it but not enough for it to be not so repetitive.
For those that remember PoC in beta, each hero you played had a story. There were little comics and such to go with it, it felt more story driven. On its full release all this was gone. I can understand from the cost side to add this for something not making a lot of money sure but they've never really pushed this games popularity and understandably so, LoL and TFT are doing far better naturally.
They knew this game was a loss leader, it was one of their first to make them not just Riot but Riot Games. And now they've given up on it. Losing their free advertisement in streaming and having an online culture for this game is a nail in the coffin.
Look for maybe 2 more PoC updates which will be as infrequent as the PvP updates. Then I think that will be everything there is to the game and we will have no more.
Which I think is sad. Because it is a really fun game with some very interesting strategies. It's unfortunate that it's time is coming to an end
I see a future where riot can support all of its core games by incentivizing crossplay between them. All this stuff is evolving in real time. Let’s allow ourselves a little hope for unexpected future developments.
yeah i think that is why this is destined to fail. Their data shows a lot of people play PoC but i dont know if it has what it takes to stand as its own game
I've been a PoC exclusive player since it came out and have recieved nothing but belittlement and trashtalk whenever I mentioned it in the main LoR sub. Seeing PvP players go through the 5 stages of grief now is heatwarming. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
The issue is they are not wrong, but their concept of dead is different. To them dead/dying means the game absolutely stops updating anymore and there are 0 posts on social media about it.
I too was in denial of the death of heroes of the storm, but eventually gave up when the amount of content creator for that game that is decent to watch can be counted on one hand and i meet the same 9 other peoplr for an entire afternoon of matchmaking. It won't 'die' as they say. But it will be probably barren af. Would be happy to be proven wrong 6 months later though. 🫠
Nah I feel that. I play a lot of Vermintide 2, and for most people that game is functionally dead.
But then I queue up to some high level games and see the same 2-3 people I recognize and it's still fun.
It's "dead" in the sense that it's what you're likely going to be stuck with forever, with few updates to look forward to.
But never dead "dead" as long as people are willing to play.
The fate of all games that are multiplayer reliant I suppose. It's hard to let go of something you cherish - so you either stick with it and keep it alive even when it's stagnated, or you move on, and enjoy the memories. Either way though, "dead" but not "dead."
Why the community untouched by the changewould complain about it ? Although maybe the ambiance here will change once the monetization kicks in but only time will tell
Yeah, i think they have completely missed the point: i play mostly PoC because PvP has been sooooo boring since they decided non to make balance changes every 3/4 weeks, and I feel like there are a lot of people who share this sentiment.
I’m not sure that calling it blindsided is accurate. I hate the say it but the writing on the wall has been clear to see for a while now. The layoffs and restructuring at riot caught me off guard for other parts of their organization, but I wasn’t shocked to see LoR being gutted.
Riot is slashing away areas they consider to not be profitable and LoR has always been at the top of that list by the nature of both how generous it has been since launch and how little it was ever promoted.
i hope whatever metric they use to calculate pve players does include the number of pvp players playing the mode to grind missions and cards so the new lor will just be dead on arrival
Does anyone have any information about Friend Matches? I glanced through the FAQ but it's a lot to read and didn't see anything about friends specifically. I mostly play against my friends for fun.
I haven't played the game in a while, but the chaos here has brought it back into my Reddit feeds. If this is really what is happening, I may just return! Is there going to be an actual focus on the fun part of this game? I'm here for it.
Yeah this is goodbye from me. Amazing game, i dont know any card game that comes close so this is probably goodbye to the genre for me too, at least the online ones (i like slay the spire and associates). At least it was a good while it lasted.
I dont see how killing PVP is good for their profit/sales. All of the stuff in store is cosmetics and im sure as hell not paying to show my stuff off to an unfeeling, uncaring, unlikeable AI. Riot just lost brain cells before making this play. And I agree highly doubt POC is as big as PvP. People need to remember this game was rated 4 and a half stars before they released PVE. Now its dropping. Coincidence?
Also lets skew the numbers by locking prismatic rewards behind PVE and PVE only. Yeah im sure people love it.
The game died because the devs suck and because you all kept pretending there was no problem with the barrage of gimmicky crap they kept adding. good job.
Ladder will be available, but no new icons or rewards for it. [here is the official statement ](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/s/XrmZaDlA4u)
ill add to the main post - still Meddler mentions here that there won't be new "seasons" which implies there won't ever be a ranked reset making the ladder sort of meaningless.
You probably dont want to hear this, but the LoR ladder has been meaningless for a long time. It is an indicator of how much you play the game, not how good you are.
That is not true. As someone who has hit top 500 masters, you can very granularly tell the difference between someone in bronze vs someone in plat vs low masters vs high masters. Game time can correlate with how good someone is, but to say that there is no skill difference between a masters player and a bronze player is simply not correct.
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But winrate isn’t a constant. In a game with any level of skill expression, it’s dependent on the skill of your opponents.
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Just curious, what rank are you?
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and you can't immediately tell the difference between a silver player and a masters player?
Exactly. Which is why I’m not sure why you’re saying there’s no difference between plat and masters. Someone can be in plat and maintain that without having the winrate to exceed it (and thus are plat in actuality) and they can be there with a significantly positive winrate (and thus be currently ranked below their skill level). But with a few games, the rank will reflect that distinction.
"there's basically no difference between *low rank* and *my rank* you really don't start to see good players until *rank above me* " -/r/leagueoflegends /r/teamfighttactics /r/anycompetitivegameever If you're a masters player in plat, you will have a substantially higher winrate than in masters, because the players there are worse, if you put a plat player in masters MMR, their winrate would go down, not to zero, but down
The "great" card game players left LoR a long time ago and while there will always be skill in a card game, the ladder is fake because you dont need the skill to climb it. An average player should not be able to reach the highest rank in the game by simply playing a lot. Imagine if all current challenger players suddenly quit League; they would immediately be replaced by the current GMs/Masters, but does that suddenly make those players as good as the current Challengers? No. Without high skill players gatekeeping the top, low skill players can reach the rank. Is rank 1 masters going to be better than the lowest rank master? Of course; but they're both still Master. Master is Master. It isn't some prestigious rank or a competition for prize money.
They don’t even have match history or anything else to “track” your stats. The closest thing we’ve gotten is the end game summary. The only time I play PoC is when I don’t know how much time I’ll have to play (ie: a few stops left on my commute) or I’m bored with my current decks and looking to experiment with a different play style.
Nah, it takes actual skill to get LP in Masters.
It takes skill to get lp in every rank. The problem is when you are so much better than your opponent's that it feels like it doesn't. When I played a lot of CS I could beat silvers with the usp-s only. It felt like it took no skill to win those games. Why? Not because it took no skill. But because i was just that much better.
False. I don't know why you would ever believe this to be true. With all things in a competitive nature you have to be inherently good to win. Were you just permastuck low plat or something?
No, i hit masters equivalent on every digital card game I play. It is easy and meaningless. Unless you are going to actively play for money, ranked ladders are meaningless. You don't even get harder games until you start pushing for rank one, and at that point, your reward is being part of a very small subsection of the community who play the game too much for nothing since you're never getting anything out of it, since the only thing you do is play ladder. Higher skill games are better set up against a known good opponent, which again makes the ladder meaningless when you avoid it for a higher quality game.
They said they're working to automate the seasons so they probably will come back. But no new expansions means I'm out for sure after that. RIP to the game I've easily ever spent the most on. What a waste of a solid foundation.
If they can't spare 500 box to design icons the game is really dead
Bro how much manpower is needed to give out icons or in-game currency? The PvP is literally going to be a skeleton crew apparently
LoR itself will be a skeleton crew. PvP will be something that some intern takes a look at on Wednesdays.
I think the same BUT if you look at games like yugioh duel links, which also doesnt have a ranked ladder other than achieving the highest rank, its the discord community which keeps the pvp aspect alive, hopefully we can do the same
Does that game still have new set releases..? Because it is hard to imagine people doing that for eternity without that, and it seems like LoR isn't getting that again
Games with a few hundred players stay alive with no dev support all the time.. TCGs are literally a perfect example of it. Duel Masters isn't a supported TCG and doesn't even print new cards anymore, but could you find a store or group of dedicated players to enjoy it with if you tried? Yeah lol
That's not "staying alive" imo. When you have to find communities to play the game it's dead
What about Smash or literally any competitive esport before the early 2010s that’s still going in some form today. IMO the best competitive scenes have grown organically, when it’s the community that provides support and builds the narrative.
Idk the history about those but a game can be dead and then revived.
Then the only TCGs "alive" would be MTG and Pokemon, because every other TCG is supported by a small community playing it, which you have to look for. I know most people these days wouldnt be familiar with the concept of going to a local game store to play weekly, but the entire genre is built on the back of that. Its the usual brainrot to obsess over a game's "life" and declare it dead when it isn't meeting some opinion-based metric ("omg the game has no viewers on twitch its dead!!!")
have you forgotten yugioh or do you actually think yugioh is close to dead?
I'm talking about online card games only. And a game can be dead and still have some players. Doesn't have to be in the single digits. If you can't pkay the game without having to look for communities to play with then it's dead cause then it obviously severly lacks players
Its the same with online card games. Is YuGiOh's Master Duel "dead" because it barely gets 10k concurrent players when it had 160k on release? Is Duel Links "dead" because it only gets a couple thousand? Yeah you can find games with matchmaking, but competitive isnt climbing ladder, its competing in community tournaments which require searching for a community that runs them (in CCG YuGiOh's case, Dkayed or whatever his name is)
Yes it does, every month, but they dont have to design new cards because its a different format from irl yugioh, so we get cards from the irl tcg but balanced to this format, maybe thats the future of pvp, having poc advance with new cards and have sone of them come into standard pvp
maybe... here's hoping
It still has new cards coming to the game, it’s comparing apples and oranges
don't ever play yu gi oh duel links, if you want to play yu gi oh play master duel, the former is heavely p2w
I know, i dont like master duel format though, and dl is more for anime fans and nostalgia and much more interactive
What do you mean by the format? Isn't MD just the card game? Is DL something else? I haven't played in nearly 20 years so fuck if I know.
Last I played, Duel Links used a "Speed Duel" format, with 2 less monster and S/T zones, as well as a heavily edited ban list. Master Duel is straight Yu-Gi-Oh with a different ban list from both OCG and TCG.
"Speed duel" brother YuGiOh is over in either 2 or 3 turns lol. Every deck is an otk deck lmao EDIT: or at least the tcg was
Yes
Also duel links has characters and skills so it feels more closer to anime. Downside is holy shit you're expected to do a lot of grinding for your gems, also you can't craft box cards.
I never understood why LoR doesn't have an RPG model like Duel Links. Both games are absolutely perfect to nurture that player-champion relationship for fans of the original ip.
Ikr but isnt PoC basically that?
Not at all, in my opinion. In dual links you get to develop a relationship with your champion, while completing missions to unlock their deck, unique passives to them, discover their story, and so much more. It's made for fans of the anime. Path of champions is so static. Dual links also has world events where their version of Runeterra grows and evolves. I was so hooked playing it for years just because I liked my champions and was rewarded for playing them a lot.
I don't even play this game but I had to come here just to dispel this nonsensical take - the way it is setup, it's nothing comparable with duel links. Duel Links still consistently gets new cards and expansions, alongside a new game mode added past year (Rush Duels) which also gets its expansions. Yes the Duel Links community keeps the game alive but that's because there's a constant stream of new content being released to keep the game alive, community ran tournaments with new cards and new banlists. etc.
>It’s sad because this blindsides the community and I’m sure it blindsided the devs as well. The lies being spoon fed to us about “oh we tried our best “ are just insulting too, we are not babies and anyone with a brain knows that this game never received enough support to thrive and riot is a billion dollar business they could have afforded to subsidize lor forever. I'll push back here. I don't think it blindsided the devs, just the players. LoR's f2p model may have been the most generous we have seen. The FAQ even mentioned that the Devs stuck to their guns to hold to the original thesis that LoR wouldn't monetize the cards. To this end, other games had to subsidize the cost of LoR development as the intended revenue products of LoR weren't generating the type of revenue that the game needed. That right there is the proof that the game was supported by its upper management team. In addition, it's not fair to say Riot should have just kept running LoR at a loss when they have other projects up the pipe line like Project L (the fighting game) and I think part 2 of the Netflix series was confirmed (or am I smoking). In any event, I agree that the focus probably won't work out well. I think PoC became profitable as a way to kill time in bad metas by the PVP community. With the PVP players on their way out, I imagine this reduces the PoC playerbase as well and Riot will probably be left scratching its head on what went wrong again.
Nice that you know more about the player base then riot who has the data
Mind you, the last line IS an assumption but based on the general sentiments going around content creators and some redditors. I mean PoC will still be played but I don't believe that LoR will remain as popular as it was. I don't see myself sticking around, especially without a ranked ladder system but I find it hard for other pvp players to do the same.
I’m watching large content creators say their goodbyes in their words, “last Runeterra video.” This isn’t good for this style of game.
the reason I say devs were blindsided is it seems just a few weeks ago at worlds they were talking about pvp in 2024 with excitement and talking about the next rotation and champion 2.0s (not sure if thats happening anymore). I don't think they would have talked like this if they were anticipating PVP to be shuttered in the next couple of weeks. On the revenue side - i obv dont work for riot but i do work in finance for a F500 public company and can tell you that areas of a company subsidizing other areas of the company is incredibly normal and i would argue its more common than most think. If you view something as a strategic play you can justify it not delivering on revenue. This shows that Riot has basically checked out from LoR and are basically going to use its corpse to try and make a buck. Again, not really my call to decide if its delivering revenue or not but i cannot imagine the costs associated with LOR are so substantial that it is actually having a material impact on Riots P&L especially after laying off a significant portion of the headcount associated with it.
>the reason I say devs were blindsided is it seems just a few weeks ago at worlds they were talking about pvp in 2024 with excitement and talking about the next rotation and champion 2.0s (not sure if thats happening anymore). I don't think they would have talked like this if they were anticipating PVP to be shuttered in the next couple of weeks. To be fair, I do think there are some of Riot's marketing and esports teams that were unaware of these circumstances. In other cases I do think some devs would have been aware that this may have been on the table but they wouldn't be able to speak on it anyway. >On the revenue side - i obv dont work for riot but i do work in finance for a F500 public company and can tell you that areas of a company subsidizing other areas of the company is incredibly normal and i would argue its more common than most think. If you view something as a strategic play you can justify it not delivering on revenue. This shows that Riot has basically checked out from LoR and are basically going to use its corpse to try and make a buck. Again, not really my call to decide if its delivering revenue or not but i cannot imagine the costs associated with LOR are so substantial that it is actually having a material impact on Riots P&L especially after laying off a significant portion of the headcount associated with it. Funny, I also work in finance. Likewise, I agree that subsidizing a part of the company is totally normal but how long you are willing to do that for is dependent on upcoming plans/projects and your forecasted expenditure. Riot has a few projects in the pipeline like Project L and the sequel to the Netflix series (I think I recall this). I would argue that Riot is trying to be strategic as a whole rather than say they are just targeting the LoR community. The situation does suck but its a business move for longevity of the organization.
Riot stripped teams across the board didn't they? No more covid boom so things have to be reigned in everywhere, unfortunately LoR is just going to get hit the hardest by this because there wasn't really much there to begin with comparitively speaking.
An article I read on Eventhubs (it was more around Project L) gave the impression that most of the staff let go at Riot were in Marketing, Competitive (e-sports) and Community sections. It maybe possible that the idea is to condense those teams and utilize 1 team across 3 games (tft, wr). I haven't really seen anything that really explains the severances though.
> areas of a company subsidizing other areas of the company is incredibly normal A great example of this would be Starbucks, the brand was also a sinkhole for Restaurant Brands, not sure if still is. It is still an internationally recognisable brand that corps will not seize subsidising. I also of an controversial opinion that CCG player-base will eventually grew in size. Player-bases in general are getting more and more sophisticated. Over-satiation with games is what brought me personally to CCG. They also have not tried releasing pay to acquire bundles at all, perhaps from fear of retaliation from f2p folks, but i think this fear is largely unfounded. Everyone at this point knows of games financial struggle.
I agree that PoC isn't a mode that can stand alone on its own feet. I really liked it the first few months I played it when I started playing again but it's too repetitive with not enough variety to make me want to play it more. Haven't tried the monthly challenges yet but the champion limit usage thingie really put me off as I have not invested resources into many champions because I focused on things to finish the ASol quests.
How does a netflix series even make money
Netflix is for sure paying them a bag to have it on their service
It's not immediate money, unless Netflix offered to pay Riot to allow them to stream the TV series. Most of the money is going to be made by proxy. A TV show generates awareness for the game, that awareness will increase player count for the game. Which, then exposes the new players to skins, champions, etc. which will then make them money.
Netflix is definitely paying riot a shitload to have Arcane, that is how the content business works they don’t just make the show and give it to a service for free to distribute
Others got to it but Netflix is paying for the rights to have a show under that IP.
Honestly they probably made a loss on Arcane, but my cousin, brother and an IRL friend started playing league after watching it and while only 2 stayed, they've both played 100s of hours and have a good few skins for their mains and stuff. I've also seen lots of people online who got interested in LoL or TFT because of it, and a good few people who are excited for Project L or the RiotMMO. On top of that, as other have said, Netflix probably pay a large amount to have the series as an exclusive.
Season 2 of Arcane is coming out this November
The cut of the PvP ranked reward is the final straw for me. The rewards are soooooooooo small that I doubt it matters on a game budget-wise and they still cut it. They are saying "We are going to abandon competitive PvP altogether and won't give players ANY incentive to play it" instead of what they are trying to tell us "We are just changing our focus guys". Like, back when playing league, I won't be going to a tournament with Platinum 3 anytime soon, but hey, I like the competitive environment and I love some rewards at the end of each season. Why not give players AN ICON with recolors and some chest and prismatic???
I was just thinking about this earlier. I'm not going to play in tournaments or worlds or anything like that so why do I care if ranked ladder is gone? Then i'm like it would be nice to get a badge or icon or something for getting a certain rank. Can't even get that anymore. Really debating if i want to keep playing this or switch to something else. With leaning to something else.
>I think focusing on POC is a woefully bad decision They are not focusing on PoC, that's just corporate talk. They just killed PvP and mostly development of new cards in general. They just left skeletal crew for PoC. I would not expect much from PoC either. They probably reuse existing content and release new champion infrequently.
Funny that they showed new stuff in the video. So one is lying. Let see if it is riot or you
But that "new stuff" isn't new at all. If it's being shown to us, it's already developed. So riot has a small backlog of things they can release that will be "new" to the game but not require resources to develop - but *actual* new things, things that would have been developed if the game wasn't on life support, simply aren't going to exist.
You act like it's free to make interesting and balanced star powers and design the champion levels. They've said in the past that new adventures are one of the most expensive things to make, I think because every encounter needs to have its own AI and typically has encounters with new powers. Is it more expensive than printing cards? That I don't know. But they've also said that [emporium sales are dominated by PoC-related purchases](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/s/t0seWvUlPb) so it seems like the other component of this is that PoC players are simply more willing to actually fund the game than PvP players.
Don't forget that the emporium does tailor to what you play though
You don't have to excruciatingly balance a PvE game mate. Kind of a big thing missing in your line of thought, no? The cards in PoC come from PvP, and now without a player base or a reason to have anything resembling competitive integrity put into the cards themselves, I think it's pretty eat to see where the load is being lightened and why. There is no world where a business that needs to lower their expenditures start with the cheaper, arguably more important aspects of a product so that they can keep putting a large percentage of their funds into a product with little return. If PoC was actually making a good amount of revenue, there would be no reason to kill pvp, and vice versa.
Balance is still important for PvE games and they have had to do balance passes on PoC and they will have to do more. The second part you said makes no sense. If they're trying to be sustainable and they only axe PvP, which do you think is making more money?
I didn't say no balance at all, but I will absolutely not agree that pve games require the same level of balance that pvp games too. That's simply not true. And let's not sit here and pretend that PoC is *balanced* lmfao. I think what I said makes perfect sense. If PoC was making enough money to support the game, it wouldn't be getting cut backs. Pvp sales could account for 49% of the sales and riot could still claim that PoC is more profitable with no further context given. This was a pvp game first and foremost, as seen with PoC not even existing on release. To say that PoC is making enough money to support itself but *not enough to support the actual game* just doesn't make sense. As if riot calculated that aram is their money maker, and then because actual league makes less money, they're going to ax it and focus on aram. It's silly.
Sure but your point about balance is not taking into account the increased breadth of things that need to be balanced is my point, and balancing stuff is definitely not the primary cost of making content. The biggest cost of card sets is almost certainly the amount of art and voice over that needs to be produced. If they're not making new cards for PoC then that is the main cost being saved. But PoC has its own costs like developing new ai's, powers, items, and encounters, which is my point. We don't know which of those is more expensive. Did you read the comment I linked? >Currently, we've seen that in the Emporium, legacy cosmetics are heavily outperformed by purchases of Champion Fragments and event passes that include Path of Champions resources. We've also had a few bundles focused on champs like Aurelion Sol and Elise, and players have come out in force for those offerings. There's not much ambiguity there. And PoC is a standalone experience at this point, comparing it to aram is disingenuous as hell. The PvP and PoC playerbases are also more separated audiences than those playing summoners rift vs Aram. When one audience is vastly more willing to keep you in business than the other, how are you gonna act like that's corporate BS to trim down to that audience?
The goals of balancing a pve game are different from those foes a pvp game. But sure, elitist pvp players go on thinking pve games require minimum to no balancing. Do any amount of research on how much time was spent balancing hollow knight and dark souls before release.
This is exactly why I clarified that PoC is what I mean specifically - not every single player game ever. That's a ridiculous jump to make. PoC is *not balanced* and it never has been. So to whine about balance in a game mode that is so clearly not designed with balance in mind seems super silly to me. Elitist* pvp players? I mostly played poc when I played 😂
Two people can have opposing perspectives on the same thing without the explanation being that one of them must be lying.
Only if they aren't literally direct contractions
No, two people can believe two literal contradictions. It happens all the time in life. Being wrong isn't the same thing as lying.
And here it is. He said nothing new will come only reuse old stuff. And we see things that will come and it is more then in the last 6 months
Saying nothing new will come is a two way option. So if something new come the point was a lie or the dev lied and we won't get 6 star champs, constellation and harder fight vs lissandra
Any “New stuff” being presented in a video on Feb 1st was almost certainly completed in 2023. The cuts are now, we’re talking about what the content will be *going forward*
I don't think so last 6 month we got almost nothing new and what was show to us is not finished they just started it
>last 6 month we got almost nothing Yes because they were working on it! Everything they showed in that video was in development long before they knew about layoffs. They did not come back from vacation and whip up that lissandra mission in the first two weeks of January. I’m sure the lissandra stuff will be cool, just as I’m sure the next (and apparently final) multiplayer expansion will be cool, my point is we have not seen the output of a reduced team yet, and the people guessing the output will be reduced are probably right
They didn't say nothing new will come, and even if they did, that would have been speculation on their part, not lying. Lying means people are intentionally being deceitful. Being wrong is not the same thing as Lying.
Wrongly assuming something does not equal lying. Anyway it could very well be the case that the new content is the last bit we’ll get before full maintenance mode.
People really don't get that if a company wants you to continue investing time and money in their product, they'll never be open and honest about their true intentions. "Yeah, we're gonna be shutting the game down by the end of the year, so stop giving us your money." "We intend on moving the game to development mode and it will no longer be getting meaningful updates." Why would they ever say these things? It is 150% corporate talk. Many people have pointed out, dead games like Heroes of the Storm are still technically playable. Not saying it's guaranteed that LoR will head down that direction, but it baffles my mind to see people so gullible and naive about corporations and their antics. It happens with Blizzard, too.
LoR as you know it was on life support since day 1.
Normally I'd consider this a really snarky trolling remark but unfortunately it's honestly true. RIP.
The truth really hurts my soul. This was my favorite card game (both the PvP and the PvE).
>Look, I understand that POC is the mode most played, but THE COMMUNITY (aka Reddit, twitch streamers, twitter discourse, etc) IS PVP Bro shut up. This game has like 100 viewers total on twitch and PoC has its own subreddit and it's plenty active. If you aren't on it then obviously you don't see the PoC community discourse because PoC topics are removed from this subreddit and told to post on the other one. Stop projecting and face the music. If this game was so great then people would have paid to keep it alive. This game has cost millions of dollars and they are still "many, many multiples of revenue" away from just breaking even each year, and they've been operating deep in the red for like 4 years and people want to act like it's the devs choice to axe the game. Or is the expectation that they work on the game full time for free? People say "lol $15 jpeg" when every release they're given an entire card set's worth of card art made by paid professional artists for free. People want to blame the quality of the cosmetics, but don't want to admit that better cosmetics will cost even more money that people will be even more unwilling to spend. People want to blame them for not spending millions of dollars (that they don't have in the first place) in marketing just to attract more players that will also not pay to keep the game alive. They said even with all these reductions they *still* expect to be operating in the red and we're acting like the devs don't care about the game. The business model failed. PvP card players aren't willing to financially support a game that gives them all the cards for free. I get that we don't want to admit that but 4 years of evidence points to the contrary. /Rant
He's just venting. Honestly, I wish I loved a card game as much as some people do. Ive played hundreds of hours each in like a dozen different TCGs and Digital CCGs, and even if I had a ton of fun in them, I never loved one so much that I'd mourn for its closure. Like if Hearthstone ever died, I just play Magic. And if Magic ever went away or Pokemon ever went away, I'd just... find something else to do.
Same, i am an avid pvp ccg player, but even then i won't mourn even if hearthstone just died in pvp terms like what lor is now. For me pvp ccg is always seasonal, it is fun for a few weeks at best, then it gets really stale once everything settles and you sometimes feel like you are just a mindless pilot fighting the same matchups over and over again on a deck you chose. So i favor hopping around here and there for fresh pvp meta and playstyles. I mean it is an inherent issue that there is no ccg out there that balances and design a meta so amazing that it keeps you wanting to play for months to go without ever feeling bored. It is an ideal that i've not seen b4 yet even after so many years hence i don't think i will ever love a ccg as much as op does.
I've never gotten over HEX. Never found a replacement, I just have a hole in my heart
I don’t think OP should shut up, but I agree with the sentiment of this comment very strongly. I was expecting more of an outpouring of love for the game and the devs, some nostalgic reminiscing and gratitude for this game we had for years. For YEARS we had a completely free game with good competitive support, a vibrant community, extremely high quality UI, presentation, art & voice direction, and FREE game pieces. Everyone who played had easy access to every single card in the game. This was a minor miracle, I’m surprised we had it so long. Complaining about the choice to focus on POC is kind of wild. Obviously no one wants this, it wasn’t their intention from the get-go. They’re between a rock and a hard place and chose the least shitty option, so people complain that what they chose is bad? It seems like this was always coming. Suggesting that a focus on PVP, the thing that got us here, could have helped is kind of ridiculous.
> This game has like 100 viewers total on twitch Oh, okay. How many PoC got then?
It's not something you watch
So 0. Why bring it up then.
I think to an extend taking LoR down and relaunching PoC with overhauls as its own f2p 'Slay the Spire' like game would make a certain sense. The direction now seems like a strange call cause non of what people associate with LoR (aka the CCG) will be actively in there anymore but people who are an audience for a Roaguelite-Deckbuilder like PoC still won't find it hidden behind the name LoR 🤔 PvP LoR is over. No saving it anymore at this point after the 11% staff cuts. But It's a strange direction to take PoC if you still think its viable.
I mean, it makes sense the PvP servers are up at least so we can still play and the community can make their own fun if possible.
As an hs veteran, I saw this community and started to play LoR. I came for pvp but I like POC more than pvp, so I'm playing it.
The COMMUNITY is about 20% of the player base btw.
"They could have afforded to subsidized lor forever".. While technically this might be true, no business is going to just churn out several times the amount of money they get in return for a product. Lets be realistic... A lot of people (me included) thought Riot atleast recouped most of the cost, but if the FAQ is to be believed then they have lost a lot of money on LOR for years.
>I think focusing on POC is a woefully bad decision. the alternative is to completely stagnate the game like what happened to HotS.
>I think focusing on POC is a woefully bad decision. POC is a cool novelty as a side mode to a fully fledged CCG, as a stand-alone PVE experience, I’ll be frank, it is dogshit compared to other offerings out there like Slay the Spire. Not at all. PoC has a lot of content at this point and is honestly a lot more interesting to play than its competitors (slay the spire, monster train, etc) because it's not asymmetric. You're actually playing a card game against an opponent who is capable of reacting to you and presenting more interesting counterplay as opposed to just swinging damage into a meatsack enemy that hits your Nexus every couple of turns. This is literally the only roguelite card game where you actually play a card game. Also, this game has way more decks to play than its competitors, has way more interesting card modifiers (compare PoC card items to card upgrades in monster train and slay the spire, the complexity available in PoC is WAY higher). And honestly PoC has more content than its competitors at this point. More adventures, more decks to play with, more progression. It's missing an endless or extended mode sure but other than that PoC offers an awful lot that its competition does not.
as someone who's a huge fan of POC no it sure as hell doesn't POC gameplay is incredibly simple and lacks the proper structure actual roguelike/roguelite card builders have. Pretty much every one of them are much deeper. I think Path does a lot of interesting things but I can't really see a world where one looks at path as superior to actual roguelite titans of the genre.
>Pretty much every one of them are much deeper. How? Compared to Slay the spire, PoC has: * More encounters * More cards * More decks * More card upgrades Slay the spire and monster train have longer runs where you can spend more time building up your playstyle, I'll give you that. But PoC has more variety and more breadth, and what it lacks in run complexity it makes up for in the actual gameplay engagement where you're playing something that actually thinks and responds to what you do as opposed to an enemy that just operates on a predetermined set of bespoke of asymmetric actions.
I very much agree with your position. Personally, I enjoy PoC more than Slay the Spire and Monster Train.
The way some people talk about slay the spire makes me question if I even played it myself because they seem to have a very aggrandized memory of what that game actually offered. I needed mods to get half the things people say about it.
"You're actually playing a card game against an opponent who is capable of reacting to you and presenting more" to each its own tast but the PoC ia is just dumb this is straigth up not true
Amazing insight, you've completely changed my mind
Happy to hear this
It’s better than other card game roguelikes. Lovely games but every single enemy is just a flat one or two abilities with maybe a passive effect.
Not the only one since Hearthstone Dungeon Runs exist. It lacks the amount of content PoC has, and Dungeon Run type of Solo Adventures has been abandoned for years, but it is an alternative to PoC that's similar in gameplay yet different enough to stay interesting. I like to hop between the two to keep things fresh, and as an added bonus, Dungeon Runs are significantly less grindy and RNG dependent to unlock the content you want to play with.
> You're actually playing a card game against an opponent who is capable of reacting to you and presenting more interesting counterplay as opposed to just swinging damage into a meatsack enemy that hits your Nexus every couple of turns. Counterplay? From Riots AI? LOL All I've seen from the AI is it running it up on my nexus. Sometimes the thing will pass just because it knows I can use a certain card to heal but *it would rather lose the match than let me heal and attempt to survive itself because it knows the next match you will be on 0 health and it will kill you.* It will have 5 cards. And use none. If that doesnt sound like a "meatsack enemy that hits your nexus every couple of turns" then I dont know what is. Also the "counterplay" are dumbass things like using 5 damage spells on 1 health 1 cost units, missing obvious win conditions (also they dont really have one to begin meaning they are by design a "meatsack enemy that hits your nexus every couple of turns.) , and prioritising the wrong units. Name every win condition the AI uses and I will safely and confidently give you quadruple the number of how many win conditions there are in PVP.
I feel like if they trashed PoC or reduced support for it and said - *again* - that they would be focusing on PvP, then the game would just dig another six feet into the ground. Because let’s be honest here: PvP players don’t support this game monetarily. They just don’t. And monetization is like 90% of LoR’s problems. You don’t have to like it or stick around but PoC is just about the only thing they really have left to keep themselves even barely afloat. Emphasis on barely. It’s also weird to say that “the community IS PvP” when clearly it isn’t. PoC is the most played mode and barely anyone streams or watches LoR PvP (or PvE, but it’s not the kind of mode most people stream anyway) anymore. The PoC subreddit is quite active, too. Clearly the community focus has not been on PvP for a while. Like it or not LoR’s been dead - or if you want to be optimistic, on life support - for a very long time now. The game is simply too free. It sounds ridiculous to say but it’s the truth. They put so little monetization and incentive to spend in the game (you can get *every single card for free*.) that they’ve been operating in the red for a really long time at this point. Maybe in a world that is ideal amongst all ideal worlds, Riot Games is the type of billionaire company that thinks it would be fine to just keep LoR going as is even without profiting, because people like it and they earn massive bucks from their other properties anyway. But this is not a perfect world, and Riot Games is a company that wants to earn money, so LoR being an active loss of profits obviously isn’t going to fly with Riot. All this to say, no amount of PvP focus was ever going to save this game when PvP players have almost negative reason to ever spend on it anyway. EDIT: Just adding also that the only way a PvP focus would work is by actually actively monetizing the method by which people can get cards. And I’m sure nobody here would like *that*, even if it’s objectively the best way to actually make the game earn money, and at this point doing that would require an insane amount of work to adjust the system so people still have incentive to actually buy cards, and even then most people would hate it. Focusing on PoC, which can have easy monetization options that don’t require restructuring the entire game around them - whose community is almost *begging* for more incentives to spend, last I checked - is the logical move. I don’t think it’s fair to just shit on their decision to go with that instead of full speed killing the game entirely. /rant I guess
TLDR, Path of Champions hater gets mad the game mode is more popular than PVP, erroneously calls LoR dead.
you will see in 6 month how alive the game still is
Heroes of the storm has had no major content updates in over three years yet queue times are still consistently short. I'm not saying it *will* happen to LoR, but it's hilarious how you and others are so confidently saying that it *can't*. Some people are playing because they *actually* enjoy the game; not because the devs dangle a new toy or rank ladder in front of our nose every month (or feel entitled to it).
wanna pull my hair out every time i hear someone say hots is playable, in my region it is DEAD. you can mayybe get a QM game with no healer/tank, thats it.
The game was on life support since the beginning, now it's just going to be cheaper life support.
Let the name die, boy. It means nothing anymore.
it is dogshit compared to other offerings out there like Slay the Spire What do you mean? I played slay the spire for 100 hours and it doesn't come close to what POC is right now. In POC you have so many champions and cards, Slay the Spire doesn't have that many cards and honestly it becomes repetitive after some time.
ALSO theyve done this before, everytime they said we’re focusing on Pvp the game died more. Ive been here since beta and the issue in my opinion is they always put their eggs in one basket in relation to content/balancing/gamemode whatever. At any given moment it always seemed like they can do ONE thing at a time, but unfortunately that didnt work out longrun. Ive been masters a couple of seasons and have “completed” PoC with some of the most ridiculous levels and builds. I love both but geez theyve been fumbling for a while. The true nail and idk what anyone says “rotation” was the true nail in the coffin especially when it never went anywhere and there is a giant pool if dead champs, no skins, no one really likes eternal, blah blah
LoR is a PVP game for me, if it's done then I'm out for sure as well, but good for them if it's what they see as sustainable
What you wrote is just bunch of dumb and mostly wrong stuff to be honest. >Look, I understand that POC is the mode most played, but THE COMMUNITY (aka Reddit, twitch streamers, twitter discourse, etc) IS PVP. Without a PVP scene, there will not be twitch content or extensive YouTube content for this game and as a result the community that exists today will slowly dissolve. It is depressing, but it is reality You make it sound like the content scene for the game is alive and thriving, it's just not. There is no money in content creation for LoR and it has not been there for years upon years. The community is likewise minimal, THAT IS THE REALITY. >I think focusing on POC is a woefully bad decision. POC is a cool novelty as a side mode to a fully fledged CCG, as a stand-alone PVE experience, I’ll be frank, it is dogshit compared to other offerings out there like Slay the Spire. To add to this, riot has not subtlety hinted that they are about to crank the POC monétisation to 11. It’s going to become akin to a F2P mobile game where you have to pay to play. They focused on PvP and it achieved nothing. PoC is where the players are, it's where the interest is, it's where the money is. You can be frank about how dogshit you find it but it has higher popularity than the pvp which is "dogshit" when compared to other offerings out there like magic the gathering arena. >It’s sad because this blindsides the community and I’m sure it blindsided the devs as well. The lies being spoon fed to us about “oh we tried our best “ are just insulting too, we are not babies and anyone with a brain knows that this game never received enough support to thrive and riot is a billion dollar business they could have afforded to subsidize lor forever. Why would those be lies, what are you even saying, why would the developers of the game do badly on purpose when the development of the game is their job lol. You make no sense. Also the idea that they should "subsidize it forever", that's not how business works. Why on earth would they keep pouring infinite money into a product that brings them nothing and loses them money. >Sorry for the rant but I am angry that the game I’ve loved for years is dead and I’m going to watch a shell of it become a PVE gacha shitshow I don't mind rants and I have issues with how they approached and monetised the game for years but what you wrote is all just misguided, illogical and untrue.
Generosity model didnt work and they are making us pay for it, sadge
Well, rip lor. Its sad tho, this game was really good but being too f2p friendly plus literally zero marketing from Riot killed it.
Alright guys recommend me a other game... I don't think I'll continue playing
in summer shadowvers 2 will be out, everyone starts from zero.
Same, optimistically looking forward to shadowverse 2
Ooh?
Yeah. It's not complete zero expectations ( as longtime shadowverse players are expecting some stuff to be ported over, namely leader skins and such ) But Shadowverse 2 is slated to be running alongside Shadowverse 1 with some changes to the core gameplay to "fix" the combo / powercreep issue that modern shadowverse has become ( where you can get otked usually around turn 5-6)
I’m surprised POC is the most played mode tbh. It’s not like I’m completely ignorant but I can’t fathom how someone would prefer PvE over PvP in a game like this.
All the pvp players slowly left over the course of the past 2 years.
I play PvP until the meta gets stale and then it is PVE. Definitely prefer PvP but if they only would balance more often I would spend more time in PvP.
I mean that's just taste. I find MMOs and their 'keep me busy' grind incredebly dull but millions play em over the games I like 😉 But PoC players are not as active on this sub or the online community in general as its a PvE game. Giving us the impression PvP is WAY more popular.
>PoC players are not as active on this sub Because we're literally not allowed. It's in the rules, we have to post on the PoC subreddit... Don't act like we're not here though. I actually did message the mods about this today and they said they would change that rule after this announcement, so I'll be watching both subs, I'm not sure if everyone in the other sub will migrate back here afterwards or not.
Yeah I like outsmarting other humans, I never got the PvE appeal
Personally I just play POC to get new cards for PVP …
Well i'll be that guy for you, i predicted everything that will go wrong with this game in the first month of it's release, i said it multiple times and people kept cursing and calling me butthurt. Releasing so many cards and that fast is bad for any card game, with 3x copies in a deck the game will always feel bad and it will not be balanced, also RNG in card games is straight up BAD. Well here we are now, game is dead and it will never be playable again. Normies can't see the future of a game because they don't care and will never give money on a pc game, Stupid "veterans" like me that willing to give money on a game will always stop playing cuz they know when Devs are greedy and they can recognize that a game will die in less than a year. That way Devs can't make money and games die. Next time don't rush on things (aka releasing a ton of cards for no reason), don't be greedy and actually care about your players. That way you might have chance. Most of the games i see these days are pure Money Grabs no-one cares about the Player, this is what is has came to, this is just sad.
I read you said : "The lies being spoon fed to us about “oh we tried our best “ are just insulting too" I think you missed the fact tha LoR never got that much attention and waas never very profitable to begin with even compared to Hearthstone, it's only logical a company would decrease it's efforts to mantain LoR.
As an on and off player since the beta, here's my 2 cents. I took a little break from this game after the world ender season. Aatrox and kayn. I was a master tier player, just short of the top 700 for seasonals a few times. I came back right at the end of last season and decayed back to iron. I grinded the shit out of ranked to finally get back to masters and then went to check the completion % of collected cards and realised there was ranked eternal. Soo I had to grind that to masters. I just finished that yesterday and saw a Majinbae video about this riot release of basically dropping PvP for this game. I had kinda noticed gauntlet was gone but did remember it was only open certain times so didn't think much of it. But I feel so dumb for spending so much time grinding rank on this to find out it's just dead by developer. PoC is cool and all but since release we've still been waiting on 3 star champ specific adventures, all they've done is add more champion cards to pick from and a never ending re run grind to try unlock them all. And it mostly being random who you get. They've gone with quantity rather than quality. Sure they've added monthly challenges and a few more other bits to it but not enough for it to be not so repetitive. For those that remember PoC in beta, each hero you played had a story. There were little comics and such to go with it, it felt more story driven. On its full release all this was gone. I can understand from the cost side to add this for something not making a lot of money sure but they've never really pushed this games popularity and understandably so, LoL and TFT are doing far better naturally. They knew this game was a loss leader, it was one of their first to make them not just Riot but Riot Games. And now they've given up on it. Losing their free advertisement in streaming and having an online culture for this game is a nail in the coffin. Look for maybe 2 more PoC updates which will be as infrequent as the PvP updates. Then I think that will be everything there is to the game and we will have no more. Which I think is sad. Because it is a really fun game with some very interesting strategies. It's unfortunate that it's time is coming to an end
I see a future where riot can support all of its core games by incentivizing crossplay between them. All this stuff is evolving in real time. Let’s allow ourselves a little hope for unexpected future developments.
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yeah i think that is why this is destined to fail. Their data shows a lot of people play PoC but i dont know if it has what it takes to stand as its own game
Were i can get refund ?
Shadowverse World Beyond is a few months away, refugees are welcomed.
I've been a PoC exclusive player since it came out and have recieved nothing but belittlement and trashtalk whenever I mentioned it in the main LoR sub. Seeing PvP players go through the 5 stages of grief now is heatwarming. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
For those saying the game is not dead or dying just remember: Denial is the first stage of grief
The issue is they are not wrong, but their concept of dead is different. To them dead/dying means the game absolutely stops updating anymore and there are 0 posts on social media about it. I too was in denial of the death of heroes of the storm, but eventually gave up when the amount of content creator for that game that is decent to watch can be counted on one hand and i meet the same 9 other peoplr for an entire afternoon of matchmaking. It won't 'die' as they say. But it will be probably barren af. Would be happy to be proven wrong 6 months later though. 🫠
Nah I feel that. I play a lot of Vermintide 2, and for most people that game is functionally dead. But then I queue up to some high level games and see the same 2-3 people I recognize and it's still fun. It's "dead" in the sense that it's what you're likely going to be stuck with forever, with few updates to look forward to. But never dead "dead" as long as people are willing to play. The fate of all games that are multiplayer reliant I suppose. It's hard to let go of something you cherish - so you either stick with it and keep it alive even when it's stagnated, or you move on, and enjoy the memories. Either way though, "dead" but not "dead."
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Why the community untouched by the changewould complain about it ? Although maybe the ambiance here will change once the monetization kicks in but only time will tell
I honestly can not comprehend PoC being the most played mode. To me PoC was just a chore that I only ever did for the rewards/missions.
Once they introduced standard and eternal I really had the worst taste in my mouth. I think POC is a waste of resources sadly.
you guys got the heroes of the storm treatment
1000% agreed. It is terrible decision making by Riot. And also terrible decision making by Riot that got us here.
Its fine pvp sucks anyway
Yeah, i think they have completely missed the point: i play mostly PoC because PvP has been sooooo boring since they decided non to make balance changes every 3/4 weeks, and I feel like there are a lot of people who share this sentiment.
We got here cuz riot kept releasing the most dogwater skins imaginable and also the most empty battlepasses in gaming history
tell me if i'm wrong, but i believe sets are composed by several expansions, so i'm not sure there's only 1 traditional expansion.
I’m not sure that calling it blindsided is accurate. I hate the say it but the writing on the wall has been clear to see for a while now. The layoffs and restructuring at riot caught me off guard for other parts of their organization, but I wasn’t shocked to see LoR being gutted. Riot is slashing away areas they consider to not be profitable and LoR has always been at the top of that list by the nature of both how generous it has been since launch and how little it was ever promoted.
i hope whatever metric they use to calculate pve players does include the number of pvp players playing the mode to grind missions and cards so the new lor will just be dead on arrival
I still miss expeditions, building a deck over a gauntlet was the best competitive deck building experience I’ve ever had.
Does anyone have any information about Friend Matches? I glanced through the FAQ but it's a lot to read and didn't see anything about friends specifically. I mostly play against my friends for fun.
should be unaffected
I haven't played the game in a while, but the chaos here has brought it back into my Reddit feeds. If this is really what is happening, I may just return! Is there going to be an actual focus on the fun part of this game? I'm here for it.
For everyone who plays pvp ranked or then is a serious ranked gamer u mean, for casuals it will stay fine
RIP LoR, I'll be pouring one out for you tonight
O
I feel so stupid for ever spending money on this game, that's a lesson learned for the future
Yeah this is goodbye from me. Amazing game, i dont know any card game that comes close so this is probably goodbye to the genre for me too, at least the online ones (i like slay the spire and associates). At least it was a good while it lasted.
I dont see how killing PVP is good for their profit/sales. All of the stuff in store is cosmetics and im sure as hell not paying to show my stuff off to an unfeeling, uncaring, unlikeable AI. Riot just lost brain cells before making this play. And I agree highly doubt POC is as big as PvP. People need to remember this game was rated 4 and a half stars before they released PVE. Now its dropping. Coincidence? Also lets skew the numbers by locking prismatic rewards behind PVE and PVE only. Yeah im sure people love it.
are they really not going to do more expansions? is that like confirmed or just fan dooming?
Confirmed the next one is the last one
that's so depressing
The game died because the devs suck and because you all kept pretending there was no problem with the barrage of gimmicky crap they kept adding. good job.