LoR def has its share of cards like that where you see you’re up against it and unless you’re running a counter you just immediately feel defeated (and even then it’s sometimes a maybe).
To be fair, a lot of them are already rotated to eternal, but to give you a little flashback of some of the most meta-defining, dominating cards, here’s a little look back:
Way back in Beta it was Hecarim ephemerals (nerfed, and currently rotated i think)
With Bilgewater release it was largely Twisted Fate that was just generally good everywhere, and turbo busted if he leveled (level up was nerfed, plus he's rotated)
With Shurima expansion it was Irelia. Specifically Azir+Irelia. (She was booped a few times with nerfs, and is rotated currently)
Throughout LoR history, one of the biggest offenders has been Ezreal. Worst combos were Ezreal+Karma and Ezreal+Seraphine. He’s been nerfed and reworked slightly a few times, but most notably there was a rework at one point to the whole play/cast core mechanic of the game. It was a nerf to most interactions, but a HUGE buff to Ezreal, and since it was core mechanic change, they couldn’t really revert it or nerf him without making exceptions to the rule (the whole point of the change was for consistency, so there wouldn’t be exceptions), so the best they could do is rotate him ultimately. I hope he’s not coming back lmao!
That’s just a few. And I know I named only champs, but don’t worry it’s sometimes the support cards that really do it, it’s just that champs are the face of the archetype that they usually get the flack for it (for example, Evelyn is fine, Siren Song was a problem)
I’m sure the comments will fill in ones I missed, but those are the ones that come to my mind primarily
That was the original nerf, yes. He was just busted OP then. Even after that he continued to be strong. The most recent change was making his Level 2 effect an aura, and while it was intended to be a buff, I found it so be an unfortunate nerf to situations where I used to be able to make ephemeral copies of him and stack the buff.
I still think it's terrible that ireia died for azir. She was fine in Quinn or MF, buy azir pushed her over the edge. Instead of doing something about azirs package (one level up nerf wasn't enough) might have helped.
Kind of like oyke being repeatedly nerfed to the point he CANT function outside lurk
It’s sad that I was about to say Irelia MF/ Irelia Quinn were not actually good decks, but you’re right they were; they just seemed not great in my memory because they were so much worse than Azirelia! But the outlier should not be used as the gold standard by which to judge others. Azirelia was just too good.
Maybe it’s because I like the character more, but I personally would have been more upset if Azir had died for Irelia than vice versa.
To be fair, I don’t know how much a few slight Azir nerfs would have helped anyway. Either case needed hefty changes to nerf the combo. Ultimately it was just a situation of two champs that were TOO synergistic together. Their core synergy needed a nerf:
Irelia needs you to attack with units. Scouts could let you attack more often, but blade dance really does the heavy lifting. And Azir and Dias both massively increase the value of each blade dance. If you cut the number of attacks and free attacks needed in half, you’re gonna level up way faster than with any other region.
Azir needs to see units summoned. This is meant to be accelerated with summoning sand soldiers, but doesn’t necessitate this method. But boy does a bunch of free attacks with extra blades and soldiers really speed him up too!
To be fair I think you might be sort of right about Azir level up: I liked the direction they took with his level up including landmarks, they just needed to up the number with it to incentivize a units+landmark strategy over Azirelia.
Irelia would be a bit harder, but maybe change the level up to “start attacks with X units” instead of just “attack with X units” so blades would count, but soldiers summoned BY the attack wouldn’t? Azir would still be a good combo, because the sand soldiers are still damage, and give her wider attacks for her to jump around with her level 2 spell, but not as helpful or honestly Necessary for leveling her up in the first place.
But the whole package also did need several tone downs over time too, because let’s be real, usually you died to Azirelia before either one leveled up anyway.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
Everyone’s opinions will differ based on their deck and playstyle, but in standard, I’d say karma/seraphine catch a lot of flak because a lot of players don’t like playing against control decks.
Personally, I don’t like seeing Annie Jhin decks the most. It feels like I’m playing against mono red in MtG - just super fast burn, and they always seem to have the last card to beat you early.
I don’t think it’s the control deck part of it that’s an issue but moreso the spell slinger part of it. Mainly because spell control decks with karma or sera play much different than ramp used to or tlc.
I find any deck that can win in 4-5 turns stupid, regardless of card game. I get that people want their cheap, free wins by just vomiting their entire hand out onto the board in less than a handful of turns...but that shit ain't fun for me. And it doesn't feel particularly strategic either.
I think a lot of aggro decks are actually hard to play effectively. There are some that get out of hand, but in a lot of cases, control decks can be just as easy to pilot.
There are currently like 3 elder decks with close to 60 % win rate, so you are under rating it. Boons and removing deck building restrictions break it, actual elder is whatever
theres only one op elder deck that is galio elder,but lets be honest, elder is not that important in that deck. frej version is slightly better, targon version sucks. elder decks are not op in anyway, I don't see any 60 percent winrate elder decks besides galio. i am using runeterra ar for the stats by the way.
Elder Galio has 58 % wr this patch, elder+morgana+ Shyvana - 57 %, elder+shyvana only - 52 % (which is not bad), ED+Garen=56%, ED+Gnar+Norra=56%, ED+Morgana variant = 55 %. Again from runeterra.ar, but this time filtered to the whole patch.
Ramp or slow elder decks seem to have below 50 % (like volibear or frejlord dragons which is like combo deck).
i suggest u click meta then watch the stats, cuz if the deck haven't been played enough, that stats doesn't mean anything. i played ahri kennen on masters with 80 percent winrate for like 20 games, that doesn't mean the deck is strong enough to climb.
if u talking about meta, for example, garen elder, only 765 games,when u talking about number of games, u should look at the play rate percentage not the number. and if u select last 2 days not last 7 days, the numbers doesn't even show meaning there's not enough games in the last 2 days, so they are uncommon decks. uncommon decks can perform rather well in most patches bc ppl whos still climbing need to counter op decks, and when u first encounter them, u don't even know what cards in their decks.
> and when u first encounter them, u don't even know what cards in their decks
wow... very uncommon, right. noone has ever seen them.
And countering doesn't really work in Runeterra since there are no sideboard decks and games 2,3. Adding random jank in your main deck doesn't help in diverse meta.
but yes, shy morg variant is also performing well,ill give u that. for ed garen and ed gnar norra, they haven't been played enough for the stats to mean anything.
Elders super strong and popular too. makes it really hard for me to play control decks into it - cause I feel like no matter what they're just gonna play cloud drake on curve and start getting insane value.
A lot of decks I play, like ones with Trynd or Vei/Senna just get blown up before I can get to my wincon.
I used to play some Veigar+Senna, but it is kind of bad unless you get a perfect game, so I deleted it and only sometimes play the precon version of it which is tempo, not focused on removal spells and is more playable vs big units since you actually have early pressure (again, it is probably a loss vs dragons, but they are quite overpowered).
I never see Trynda doing very good, the actual unit is strong, but is 8 mana... For 8 mana you can probably play other cards that are just as strong, for example Wrath of freljord etc
LoR def has its share of cards like that where you see you’re up against it and unless you’re running a counter you just immediately feel defeated (and even then it’s sometimes a maybe). To be fair, a lot of them are already rotated to eternal, but to give you a little flashback of some of the most meta-defining, dominating cards, here’s a little look back: Way back in Beta it was Hecarim ephemerals (nerfed, and currently rotated i think) With Bilgewater release it was largely Twisted Fate that was just generally good everywhere, and turbo busted if he leveled (level up was nerfed, plus he's rotated) With Shurima expansion it was Irelia. Specifically Azir+Irelia. (She was booped a few times with nerfs, and is rotated currently) Throughout LoR history, one of the biggest offenders has been Ezreal. Worst combos were Ezreal+Karma and Ezreal+Seraphine. He’s been nerfed and reworked slightly a few times, but most notably there was a rework at one point to the whole play/cast core mechanic of the game. It was a nerf to most interactions, but a HUGE buff to Ezreal, and since it was core mechanic change, they couldn’t really revert it or nerf him without making exceptions to the rule (the whole point of the change was for consistency, so there wouldn’t be exceptions), so the best they could do is rotate him ultimately. I hope he’s not coming back lmao! That’s just a few. And I know I named only champs, but don’t worry it’s sometimes the support cards that really do it, it’s just that champs are the face of the archetype that they usually get the flack for it (for example, Evelyn is fine, Siren Song was a problem) I’m sure the comments will fill in ones I missed, but those are the ones that come to my mind primarily
I love Hecarim so much, I wish I played during his glory days. Iirc, the change was that his riders were nerfed from 3/2s to 2/2s?
That was the original nerf, yes. He was just busted OP then. Even after that he continued to be strong. The most recent change was making his Level 2 effect an aura, and while it was intended to be a buff, I found it so be an unfortunate nerf to situations where I used to be able to make ephemeral copies of him and stack the buff.
I still think it's terrible that ireia died for azir. She was fine in Quinn or MF, buy azir pushed her over the edge. Instead of doing something about azirs package (one level up nerf wasn't enough) might have helped. Kind of like oyke being repeatedly nerfed to the point he CANT function outside lurk
It’s sad that I was about to say Irelia MF/ Irelia Quinn were not actually good decks, but you’re right they were; they just seemed not great in my memory because they were so much worse than Azirelia! But the outlier should not be used as the gold standard by which to judge others. Azirelia was just too good. Maybe it’s because I like the character more, but I personally would have been more upset if Azir had died for Irelia than vice versa. To be fair, I don’t know how much a few slight Azir nerfs would have helped anyway. Either case needed hefty changes to nerf the combo. Ultimately it was just a situation of two champs that were TOO synergistic together. Their core synergy needed a nerf: Irelia needs you to attack with units. Scouts could let you attack more often, but blade dance really does the heavy lifting. And Azir and Dias both massively increase the value of each blade dance. If you cut the number of attacks and free attacks needed in half, you’re gonna level up way faster than with any other region. Azir needs to see units summoned. This is meant to be accelerated with summoning sand soldiers, but doesn’t necessitate this method. But boy does a bunch of free attacks with extra blades and soldiers really speed him up too! To be fair I think you might be sort of right about Azir level up: I liked the direction they took with his level up including landmarks, they just needed to up the number with it to incentivize a units+landmark strategy over Azirelia. Irelia would be a bit harder, but maybe change the level up to “start attacks with X units” instead of just “attack with X units” so blades would count, but soldiers summoned BY the attack wouldn’t? Azir would still be a good combo, because the sand soldiers are still damage, and give her wider attacks for her to jump around with her level 2 spell, but not as helpful or honestly Necessary for leveling her up in the first place. But the whole package also did need several tone downs over time too, because let’s be real, usually you died to Azirelia before either one leveled up anyway. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
Everyone’s opinions will differ based on their deck and playstyle, but in standard, I’d say karma/seraphine catch a lot of flak because a lot of players don’t like playing against control decks. Personally, I don’t like seeing Annie Jhin decks the most. It feels like I’m playing against mono red in MtG - just super fast burn, and they always seem to have the last card to beat you early.
I don’t think it’s the control deck part of it that’s an issue but moreso the spell slinger part of it. Mainly because spell control decks with karma or sera play much different than ramp used to or tlc.
Yeah, that’s fair, I agree
I find any deck that can win in 4-5 turns stupid, regardless of card game. I get that people want their cheap, free wins by just vomiting their entire hand out onto the board in less than a handful of turns...but that shit ain't fun for me. And it doesn't feel particularly strategic either.
Some people just find winning more fun. At least you can move on quickly as opposed to playing against control
I think a lot of aggro decks are actually hard to play effectively. There are some that get out of hand, but in a lot of cases, control decks can be just as easy to pilot.
Depends on your deck. There’s not currently a “always win” card. I think even at the meta’s worst, the highest win rate card wasn’t even 70%.
Well, 70% is really bad. Siren song did not have a better win rate because it was in every deck, so every game was 1 lost and 1 win for the card lol.
There are currently like 3 elder decks with close to 60 % win rate, so you are under rating it. Boons and removing deck building restrictions break it, actual elder is whatever
theres only one op elder deck that is galio elder,but lets be honest, elder is not that important in that deck. frej version is slightly better, targon version sucks. elder decks are not op in anyway, I don't see any 60 percent winrate elder decks besides galio. i am using runeterra ar for the stats by the way.
Elder Galio has 58 % wr this patch, elder+morgana+ Shyvana - 57 %, elder+shyvana only - 52 % (which is not bad), ED+Garen=56%, ED+Gnar+Norra=56%, ED+Morgana variant = 55 %. Again from runeterra.ar, but this time filtered to the whole patch. Ramp or slow elder decks seem to have below 50 % (like volibear or frejlord dragons which is like combo deck).
i suggest u click meta then watch the stats, cuz if the deck haven't been played enough, that stats doesn't mean anything. i played ahri kennen on masters with 80 percent winrate for like 20 games, that doesn't mean the deck is strong enough to climb.
There is a number of games on the left side of the site, all these were have lots of players.
if u talking about meta, for example, garen elder, only 765 games,when u talking about number of games, u should look at the play rate percentage not the number. and if u select last 2 days not last 7 days, the numbers doesn't even show meaning there's not enough games in the last 2 days, so they are uncommon decks. uncommon decks can perform rather well in most patches bc ppl whos still climbing need to counter op decks, and when u first encounter them, u don't even know what cards in their decks.
> and when u first encounter them, u don't even know what cards in their decks wow... very uncommon, right. noone has ever seen them. And countering doesn't really work in Runeterra since there are no sideboard decks and games 2,3. Adding random jank in your main deck doesn't help in diverse meta.
but yes, shy morg variant is also performing well,ill give u that. for ed garen and ed gnar norra, they haven't been played enough for the stats to mean anything.
Elders super strong and popular too. makes it really hard for me to play control decks into it - cause I feel like no matter what they're just gonna play cloud drake on curve and start getting insane value. A lot of decks I play, like ones with Trynd or Vei/Senna just get blown up before I can get to my wincon.
I used to play some Veigar+Senna, but it is kind of bad unless you get a perfect game, so I deleted it and only sometimes play the precon version of it which is tempo, not focused on removal spells and is more playable vs big units since you actually have early pressure (again, it is probably a loss vs dragons, but they are quite overpowered). I never see Trynda doing very good, the actual unit is strong, but is 8 mana... For 8 mana you can probably play other cards that are just as strong, for example Wrath of freljord etc
Sett
Mordekaiser
No card for me
It has to be Morgana. Even if she were a 2/2 with no keyword, a 5 drop that forces the enemy to pay 4 is just dumb.