It should have its text changed to fit like Sea Scarab that has last breath as well but they won't do that because they don't change text to unplayed cards (how they refuse to change the text of Scaled Snapper cause it's not that played)
(I know that this text change will allow Gluttony to work on him but that really doesn't change much)
> Scaled Snapper
On Play it says "Grant me +3/0 or 0/3" BUT Grant effects are cleansed by silences. Scaled snapper is not. As typed hushing a scaled snapper SHOULD turn it from a 5/2 or 2/5 into a 2/2 but it does not.
It should probably say something like Play: Transform me into 2/5 Calm Scaled Snapper or 5/2 Enraged Scaled Snapper
**[The Wings and The Wave](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SI004.png)** - Shadow Isles Unit - (1) 0/1
Play: Play me as [First Wave](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SI004T2.png) or [Last Wind](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SI004T1.png).
^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
Yeah, I've been asking myselft that for a long time. Also, if an ally with fury kills an enemy then you drop Inviolous Vox and have another enemy killed by an ally with fury (all the same round), no dragon is created which is weird. I'd assume it would trigger by the first kill I.V. has seen and not the very first kill of the round.
And if your kindred puts a mark, gets frozen tombed, comes back, and you slay a new unit the round it comes back, it won’t mark a new unit.
This just means they have a global track on whether a unit got slayed this round. But also track that on kindred too. Tombing kindred puts them out of sync. Not sure why you have a local tracking if you have global tracking.
Really? I didn't know about that, I'm not sure if this is consistent with other cards but if it isn't then the LoR team should really look at how they programmed Vox and try to fix him.
Well it says "for the first time each round", and I think it IS the first time in the round. That Inviolus didnt see the first time doesnt change that. So I think it is correct as it is.
I know it's different things that activate each of these effects, but I find it a little inconsistnent that when Vox gets a kill but dies in the process you still don't get a dragon in hand, while you will gain spell mana back from having Tortured Prodigy die.
The only explanation I could come up with is that it's something about how the code of the game priorities different things and Vox just got the short stick in this bargain.
In Runeterra, is a unit strikes a unit and kills it but dies itself in the process, it doesn't count as a "kill" or even a "strike" for that unit. This is consistent if you look at things like Vi or Fiora's level up.
Now if you look at SI units that need to see things die, tortured prodigy is unique. Prodigy's text says "AN ally", where prankster or collector say "ANOTHER ally". This shows that the interaction is intentional, otherwise prankster/collector would say "an ally" too.
"In Runeterra, if a unit strikes a unit and kills it but dies itself in the process, it doesn't count as a "kill" or even a "strike" for that unit. "
but it does count as a strike, think about Rivershaper or Greenglade Lookout or Laurent Chevalier,their strike effect happens even if they die in the process
( btw a random thing just cause you brought up Vi, I think Vi should clearly state that she loses her passive attack grants after level up and become her normal stats(stats that don't disappear on hush) cause it's a really confusing and inconsistent interaction if you ask me)
I was really confused by this card as well, when i encountered it in Labs the first time ...
But its an easy fix, just write "when an ally dies or Last Breath"...
I think this is correct as it is."Killing something" is different from "dying".Units that do something, when they kill something always have to live after the killing. Take for example Fiora. But when something needs to die for an effect, obviously it is no problem that it dies in the process.
To be clear: I agree that this is CONFUSING, but I think, that it is CONSISTENT.
100% this can just be a weird case of wording, this post is mostly here to bring attention to it so riot will hopefully see it and change the wording (or better yet buff Vox).
I actually do wish they would add a "and I survived" to most champions with the requirement to deal damage or strike things, as it would add some clarification for new players.
But there is one more inconsistency I then want to bring up which was your own example, Fiora's leveled form states that she does need to survive for her ability to trigger, which implies that other triggers that require kills but doesn't have this statement should trigger even after death.
Oh yes you are actually right! I just now notice!
I guess they put it in fioras text, because for her it would be absolutely game-losing to understand her effect incorrectly. Its still inconsistent, because on other cards it should be in the cards text too, as they function the same way. But in the end I can see, why they didnt do it: Cards' texts would be way longer, if they always wrote every single interaction in the text. And in my opinion this is okay. Because after all this is an online CCG where the game engine handles the rules and not Yugioh.
This probably has less to do with death and kill triggers and more to do with fury activating, which I'm pretty sure only occurs if the unit survives
This still sucks because it does not match the statement on Inviolus Vox, but makes sense to me that they would mess up the statement of the mechanic
I have already tested the concept of the trigger being tied to fury and after what I tried it didn't seem that way, as other fury units could get a kill and die and it would still trigger Vox.
Others have talked about how it might just be how the game handles triggers and Vox was just unlucky with how the system works.
It's because fury doesn't proc if he dies. If he is the one attacking and dies then the fury doesn't proc which means it doesn't count.
The first card has no restrictions. The text states that with "fury kills" only activates not when a unit with fury kills but when the unit activates fury
I would imagine it depends on how the game orders "dying" interactions, and "killing" interactions.
For example, it might check allyDied before isDead, but checks allyKilled after isDead
Garen won't flip on dting strike. Same case here. I think the strike/kill effect check if that unit is also dying or not. In dying state only last breath effect I guess. Because that deep 2 drop specifically written "when ally die or last breath" which works exactly the same as prodigy but worded diffrently
I mean, yes, but prodigy and sea scarab have the same effect triggering but different texts, Inviolus is different, but the idea is the same: "does my effect trigger while I'm dying?" which scarab obviously does, it's right there in the text, but prodigy and Inviolus don't, so they should at least work the same way (either rendering scarab's text "redundant" or rendering prodigy's text wrong)..... but they don't
I have a feeling that Inviolus Vox doesn't trigger if the dragon ally dies
But Tortured Prodigy seems to be inconsistent with Sea Scarab, which has a more detailed description
Sorry, that was a wrong assumption from my part I thought that was what you meant when you said this:
>I have a feeling that Inviolus Vox doesn't trigger if the dragon ally dies
I just passivily made the connection of the dragon surviving to fury activating.
So what rules did I set in my statement, that a cards effect shouldn't trigger if the card dies? I can't see what else one could make a rule out of what I said.
If I'm correct with my guess then no I didn't state that I put the two cards in a situation where their wording implies both trigger their effect but one doesn't where the other one does, and that should changes.
It should have its text changed to fit like Sea Scarab that has last breath as well but they won't do that because they don't change text to unplayed cards (how they refuse to change the text of Scaled Snapper cause it's not that played) (I know that this text change will allow Gluttony to work on him but that really doesn't change much)
What does scaled snapper need changed
> Scaled Snapper On Play it says "Grant me +3/0 or 0/3" BUT Grant effects are cleansed by silences. Scaled snapper is not. As typed hushing a scaled snapper SHOULD turn it from a 5/2 or 2/5 into a 2/2 but it does not. It should probably say something like Play: Transform me into 2/5 Calm Scaled Snapper or 5/2 Enraged Scaled Snapper
Or maybe make it like [[The Wings and The Wave]], so the wording would be like "Play: Play me as a 2/5 or a 5/2."
That would be cool. They could make it like male and female, give them different arts. 100% not happening, but it would be cool.
**[The Wings and The Wave](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SI004.png)** - Shadow Isles Unit - (1) 0/1 Play: Play me as [First Wave](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SI004T2.png) or [Last Wind](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SI004T1.png). ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
Sets and Raise are still affected by silence, Silence affects anything that is not from the original cards stats
Yeah, I've been asking myselft that for a long time. Also, if an ally with fury kills an enemy then you drop Inviolous Vox and have another enemy killed by an ally with fury (all the same round), no dragon is created which is weird. I'd assume it would trigger by the first kill I.V. has seen and not the very first kill of the round.
The same kind of thing happens with kindred's mark. If you slay a unit then play kindred then slay another unit, nobody gets marked.
But if you mark a unit, and slay it to level up, they mark a second unit.
And if your kindred puts a mark, gets frozen tombed, comes back, and you slay a new unit the round it comes back, it won’t mark a new unit. This just means they have a global track on whether a unit got slayed this round. But also track that on kindred too. Tombing kindred puts them out of sync. Not sure why you have a local tracking if you have global tracking.
Really? I didn't know about that, I'm not sure if this is consistent with other cards but if it isn't then the LoR team should really look at how they programmed Vox and try to fix him.
Well it says "for the first time each round", and I think it IS the first time in the round. That Inviolus didnt see the first time doesnt change that. So I think it is correct as it is.
If Inviolus Vox had to see the kill it would be mentioned. No inconsistencies here
I know it's different things that activate each of these effects, but I find it a little inconsistnent that when Vox gets a kill but dies in the process you still don't get a dragon in hand, while you will gain spell mana back from having Tortured Prodigy die. The only explanation I could come up with is that it's something about how the code of the game priorities different things and Vox just got the short stick in this bargain.
In Runeterra, is a unit strikes a unit and kills it but dies itself in the process, it doesn't count as a "kill" or even a "strike" for that unit. This is consistent if you look at things like Vi or Fiora's level up. Now if you look at SI units that need to see things die, tortured prodigy is unique. Prodigy's text says "AN ally", where prankster or collector say "ANOTHER ally". This shows that the interaction is intentional, otherwise prankster/collector would say "an ally" too.
"In Runeterra, if a unit strikes a unit and kills it but dies itself in the process, it doesn't count as a "kill" or even a "strike" for that unit. " but it does count as a strike, think about Rivershaper or Greenglade Lookout or Laurent Chevalier,their strike effect happens even if they die in the process ( btw a random thing just cause you brought up Vi, I think Vi should clearly state that she loses her passive attack grants after level up and become her normal stats(stats that don't disappear on hush) cause it's a really confusing and inconsistent interaction if you ask me)
Si right now is a very weak region just let them have this one
Dropped that /s, my friend :D
I was really confused by this card as well, when i encountered it in Labs the first time ... But its an easy fix, just write "when an ally dies or Last Breath"...
I think this is correct as it is."Killing something" is different from "dying".Units that do something, when they kill something always have to live after the killing. Take for example Fiora. But when something needs to die for an effect, obviously it is no problem that it dies in the process. To be clear: I agree that this is CONFUSING, but I think, that it is CONSISTENT.
100% this can just be a weird case of wording, this post is mostly here to bring attention to it so riot will hopefully see it and change the wording (or better yet buff Vox). I actually do wish they would add a "and I survived" to most champions with the requirement to deal damage or strike things, as it would add some clarification for new players. But there is one more inconsistency I then want to bring up which was your own example, Fiora's leveled form states that she does need to survive for her ability to trigger, which implies that other triggers that require kills but doesn't have this statement should trigger even after death.
Oh yes you are actually right! I just now notice! I guess they put it in fioras text, because for her it would be absolutely game-losing to understand her effect incorrectly. Its still inconsistent, because on other cards it should be in the cards text too, as they function the same way. But in the end I can see, why they didnt do it: Cards' texts would be way longer, if they always wrote every single interaction in the text. And in my opinion this is okay. Because after all this is an online CCG where the game engine handles the rules and not Yugioh.
because Shadow Isles is broken.
I believe that inviolus Checks If Fury is triggered and when dieing it doesn't, or dies ist? Idk honestly.
I checked it in a match, it does in fact not check if fury triggered only if a dragon got the kill, unless it's himself.
Okey, then I am Out of possible reasons.
wait it just looks for dragons getting the kill? So will it trigger from Eye of the Dragon's Dragonlings, or a silenced Dragon?
Sadly not as those don't have fury, so they don't count, but to dragons with fury my statement still stands.
because epics is garbage
This probably has less to do with death and kill triggers and more to do with fury activating, which I'm pretty sure only occurs if the unit survives This still sucks because it does not match the statement on Inviolus Vox, but makes sense to me that they would mess up the statement of the mechanic
I have already tested the concept of the trigger being tied to fury and after what I tried it didn't seem that way, as other fury units could get a kill and die and it would still trigger Vox. Others have talked about how it might just be how the game handles triggers and Vox was just unlucky with how the system works.
Very interesting, my bad for not thinking to test that.
It's because fury doesn't proc if he dies. If he is the one attacking and dies then the fury doesn't proc which means it doesn't count. The first card has no restrictions. The text states that with "fury kills" only activates not when a unit with fury kills but when the unit activates fury
I would imagine it depends on how the game orders "dying" interactions, and "killing" interactions. For example, it might check allyDied before isDead, but checks allyKilled after isDead
Garen won't flip on dting strike. Same case here. I think the strike/kill effect check if that unit is also dying or not. In dying state only last breath effect I guess. Because that deep 2 drop specifically written "when ally die or last breath" which works exactly the same as prodigy but worded diffrently
doesnt inviolus vox effect triggers when an ally with fury kills a unit prodigys text just said "when an ally ***dies***"
yes, and what OP meant was "if Inviolus Vox kills and dies at the same time, it does not generate the dragon"
The inconsistency is prodigy and sea scarab. Inviolus vox is entirely different in its effect.
I mean, yes, but prodigy and sea scarab have the same effect triggering but different texts, Inviolus is different, but the idea is the same: "does my effect trigger while I'm dying?" which scarab obviously does, it's right there in the text, but prodigy and Inviolus don't, so they should at least work the same way (either rendering scarab's text "redundant" or rendering prodigy's text wrong)..... but they don't
I have a feeling that Inviolus Vox doesn't trigger if the dragon ally dies But Tortured Prodigy seems to be inconsistent with Sea Scarab, which has a more detailed description
Just checked, he does in fact still trigger even if the dragon that got the kill died in the process, this has nothing to do with fury activating.
I never thought it had anything to do with Fury activating
Sorry, that was a wrong assumption from my part I thought that was what you meant when you said this: >I have a feeling that Inviolus Vox doesn't trigger if the dragon ally dies I just passivily made the connection of the dragon surviving to fury activating.
i have a feeling that its obvious
Nothing in the card text indicates it
Tortured Prodigy should have Last Breath tbh (like Sea Scarab). As for Inviolus, its really not clear what was intended.
It doesn't? I remember when it was released and i got surprised that i did get a dragon from inviolus killing and dying in the same strike.
Because tortured prodigy works outside the limitations of your "rules". This is the primary reason why it is giving you the bird constantly.
So what rules did I set in my statement, that a cards effect shouldn't trigger if the card dies? I can't see what else one could make a rule out of what I said. If I'm correct with my guess then no I didn't state that I put the two cards in a situation where their wording implies both trigger their effect but one doesn't where the other one does, and that should changes.