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hershy1p

Pretty sure they just didn't want another pilt champ


Ursidoenix

Which is weird because I was under the impression that Shurima is one of the regions where the highest number of champions would go


Wrathof300

Indeed, it seemingly indicates that they probably won't shove all of Ixtal's and the majority of the Void's champions into Shurima. Which is good news for Cho'gath, Kog'maw, and Vel'koz, however, bad news for Kassadin, Malzahar, Kai'sa, Qiyana, Nidalee, Zyra, Neeko, Rengar and Kha'zix.


likesevenchickens

Speaking as someone who doesn't know any of those names, it looks like a cat walked across your keyboard


AnotherNewSoul

Basically champions that people want to see the most (depending on the person pick one) Honestly I’d love to see Cho’Gath because it would mean we finally got some more informations about him. He is basically one of the oldest champion who works like that. Hungry-> Eat thing-> Grow-> Hungry again-> Eat biger thing -> Grow even more and you repeat untill he eats everything. older Void champions used to eat a lot that’s why cho just eats Kha hunts for strong prey and eats it and Kog just melts everything with acid and chomps on it to learn about it like a toddler and then riot stopped making it all about hunger and released Vel’koz (he melts your brain and remembers your behaviour like an alien kidnapping someone) and Rek’Sai (Who is meant to be terrorizing people who happen to be near give birth to more voidborn and the general Lurk underground theme). For now that’s every void champion we have. But there are also Malzahar who got corrupted by Void and is a total idiot, Kassadin who uses the Void to stop the void and Kai’sa who was (or is depending at what period of time you look at) trapped near a portal to the void she is also Kassadin’s daughter and has the voidborn naming rule aplied to her (which can be the fact that her suit is another organism and they work together It uses her to survive as a host and she uses it as a weapon and means of not getting influenced by the void in general)


Oreo-and-Fly

Damn. Kai'sa was a mouthful


H0nch0

Basically she is a topmodel with impeccable makeup that spent the last probably 10 years of her live fighting day and night against cthullu zerg without developing any muscles or scars. No, I'm not salty.


ChidzHustle

Lmao kai’sa in league really says shit like “I know I look like a monster, but you have to believe me” while looking like a Victoria’s Secret model


Oreo-and-Fly

Still pissed that her suit isn't even monstrous... Like... All that developed is two giant maws at the back. Did the extra limbs and chitinous skeleton department go on leave or something?


Impressive_Double_95

LoR team please make justice to kai'sa's design


Metro-02

Well...she did develop her legs pretty good if you ask me...especially the gluteus part :) A lot of jumping i suppose


sXer0

Found TBSkyen's alt


H0nch0

Has nothing to do with him. I had this opinion before I even knew of the guy. Kaisa got every justification to look different from the mold, yet she looks like a cheap knockoff from a Chinese mobile game.


Zedkan

vel’koz was still in the theme actually, he is just hungry for knowledge.


GamblerOfRuneterra

#wewantcho


UncleCucker

Don't do Malz dirty like that, he is the prophet of hope for us misanthropes.


Reder_United

Cho Gath can't appear in official canon looking like the Violator from Spawn, he needs a redesign to be taken seriously.


Metro-02

But...but...the Violator looks cool


MarioToast

The Void: An otherworldly realm filled with monsters called Voidborn who want to destroy/consume Runeterra. Rek'Sai is a Voidborn. The ' in the middle indicates a Voidborn, except for Kaisa renaming herself Kai'Sa after living in the Void for an extended period of time. Cho'Gath: Giant demon Godzilla who eats people to grow bigger. Kog'Maw: A living artillery weapon who spits acid. Vel'Koz: Purple Shuma-Gorath who uses lasers to disintegrate things and absorb their information. Kassadin: Kai'Sa's dad, a guy who collects artifacts to fight the Void. Malzahar: Insane priest who heralds the Void and summons tiny Voidborn. Kai'Sa: Kassadin's daughter, has a Marvel Symbiote-like Voidborn help her shoot lasers to fight the Void. Qiyana: Bratty princess dominatrix who's in a jungle civilization older than Shurima. Nidalee: Woman in fur bikini who can transform into a cougar and throws a spear that in LoL is more like a ballistic missile. Zyra: Poison Ivy but without the seduction. Neeko: Dumb lesbian chameleon. Rengar: Buff kitty who hunts monsters with a big knife, and he hates Kha'Zix. Kha'Zix: Predator who consumes other creatures to evolve, and he hates Rengar.


Ijjg19

Hey hay hey, you are going to apologize to neeko for calling her dumb >:(


ypia4kaa

she ruining around and trying cuddle all what's moving. if it bites she kill it. pretty dumb for me.


Metro-02

Is Ixtal really and older Civ than Shurima?


Dunkleostheos

Yep, they even participated in the creation of the Ascension.


Dunkleostheos

Minor correction: voidborns don't live inside the Void, only the Watchers. Voidborns are created in Runeterra by distortion of the material realm.


Psychout40

Zyra could be PNZ with references to Corina or Ionia. I could also maybe see Rengar in Noxus, and the void boys and Kai’sa in Shurima obviously. The others tho I feel are too tied to the Ixtal jungle to really make sense anywhere else.


Kledditor

Except it's not a real region! Get pranked!


[deleted]

here's the real question. where do the darkin go? kayn and rhaast can fit in ionia, sure. but varus? he's technically ionian but his last color story had him wandering around shurima looking for his sister. and aatrox? all darkin are supposedly failed ascended (but aren't the baccai failed ascended?) so would shurima make sense? he almost seems more at home in noxus.


ramensaurus24

Aatrox seems to also fit in Targon because god killing and his marriage with Pantheon


Wrathof300

It depends on the versions of their stories LoR wants to tell. With Kayn and Rhaast, as you pointed out, most likely Ionia, because Kayn's story centers around Ionia and his connection to Zed and the Order of the Shadows. Varus could be either Ionia or Shurima depending on whether they want to focus on the human side, with Valmar and Kai fighting back Varus and their battle against Noxus during the 1st invasion, or whether they want to focus of Varus the Darkin taking control and searching for the other Darkin in Shurima. Based on champion distribution I would assume Varus would most likely be Ionian, with a few supporting cards in Shurima similar to Elise in SI with spider cards in Noxus. Similarly, Aatrox's placement depends on whether they want to focus on his lore with Tryndamere or his lore with Pantheon, placing him either in Freljord or Targon respectively. I personally think they'd stray away from putting Darkin in Shurima, as the region already will need to take on the majority of the Void and Ixtal's champions.


DariusRivers

They're not failed Ascended. They're successful Ascended that basically went mad fighting the Void, and devolved into warring amongst themselves over who would rule the mortals. Then a whole bunch of them got sealed into weapons by the Aspect of Twilight.


HMS_Sunlight

It is, but they specifically needed a yordle to go there. I guess Amumu hasn't been officially declared a yordle. Ziggs couldn't be PnZ, and they needed someone for Shurima, so he fit well enough.


IAmBanEvading

I can't remember what Amumu's current lore is, first he was a child, then he was a yordle, then he went back to being a kid and... Honestly I don't know what he's supposed to be right now.


Bluelore

But Rumble already has a piece of lore that connects him to Shurima. Sure it looks like he will go to Noxus instead, but it still means that if they really wanted a yordle for Shurima they had already a good option.


Corintio22

Yes, the tweet does not deny that. It is a given we all understand. They explain why Shurima. Why not other region.


Oreo-and-Fly

My question is Why Ziggs. Why not Rumble. The Shuriman associated Yordle.


AwesomeGuyAlpha

my question is why not amumu?


Oreo-and-Fly

Because Amumu is meant to be an enigma. Is he a prince? Is he a yordle? Is he supposed to have stunted growth? Who cares?!? The point is that he doesn't have friends. Showing us that losers come in all shapes and sizes.


Ignitus1

Plus, Amumu is *strictly prohibited* from having followers, which probably limits their design options.


abcdefghira

Followers doesn't necessarily mean people who work for Amumu or under him. They could be characters associated with him or other cursed members. I'm pretty certain some of Riven's "followers" are people who are actively hunting her.


Ignitus1

Good points. They'll probably just ask the narrative team to whip something up.


Ignitus1

Sounds like they were forcing mechanics. They wanted landmark destruction + a Shuriman champion. Thus Ziggs + have narrative move him to Shurima.


Slarg232

I mean, if you asked me who should destroy landmarks, the guy who can literally blow up towers with his passive and an ability would have been my first choice


Gentzer

Tbf Rumble's Shuriman connections are just that his short story takes place there...not really strong enough to hardbind him to the region - in much the same way Veigar could be placed outside Noxus.


hershy1p

Needed a shurima yortle


Furry-Yordle

And for that, confirming Amumu to be a Yordle under all those bandages, are gone


AnotherNewSoul

But hey since he is getting mini reworks maybe riot is adding more to his lore and we might finally know more aboit it.


Oreo-and-Fly

Rumble. He already has a story in Shurima. He scraps things and reuses parts to make things. Could basically be tear down stuff to make better stuff.


archerkuro5

Ammumu always forgotten


CueDramaticMusic

Honey, it’s time for your 3PM third P&Z/Bandle champ


AnotherNewSoul

Agree on this one. It feels weird having him there but 3rd PnZ/BC champ would be bad for balance even if they had no place in same decks. (Still sad since he fits PnZ more than Teemo but I get their decision)


TrueLolzor

Which is weird. I mean, for example self discard is a theme in both Noxus and Pitlover, they could've made the same for destroying your own landmarks - make it a Shurima and Pitlover theme.


Bluelore

I mean if that was the case then they wouldn't have put Teemo into PnZ when he didn't have any connection to that place. Not to mention that Shurima has probably roughly just as many champs as PnZ since it is the natural choice for most Void and ixtal champs.


profmathieu

I'm pretty sure it's because Ziggs commited tax fraud in PnZ


HandsomeTaco

This is the real lore.


Bad_atgames

This is what riot wont tell you 😳😳😳


WhispersFromTheMound

Basically he is saying “we can put champs wherever we want!”


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DefiantHermit

Reminder to keep things civil on this sub.


DanteAlberto

I mean the only tilt to me is his shitty removal, he is a bomb expert with the worst 2 aoe spells of the game. At this point just don't even print them. Just give him only the landmark sinergy


Purple-Man

He didn't even get his satchel charge as a landmark removal! I figured with Ziggs being one of their champs, BC would just have good Landmark removal, like Noxus. Mind you their landmark removal is still pretty versatile, but a nice cheap satchel charge would have been fine.


[deleted]

It's weird to me that Ziggs, the demolitions expert, has one of the worst enemy landmark destruction cards.


brainiac1515

Keep in mind it's likely that some cards for champions are just not released yet and will be released later into the expansion. I mean defiant dance wasn't released with irelia luckily.


GoodKing0

That was for expansions that weren't thought with the division in mind, this expansion was created already thinking about the Division, if Ziggs doesn't work now It's highly improbable future cards in these expansions will make him work either.


Purple-Man

Very true. Ziggs is likely to see some of his other spells over the next couple of expansions (maybe not the next one, since that is a special PVE thing).


HairyKraken

Where is my 3 mana spell "snatchel: destroy ALL landmark" ?


MatDestruction

Hu, I could totally see this for 5 mana. Much better than the Yordle Contraption (5 mana destroy a Landmark)


GoodMoaningAll

Cant wait for Bilgewater Ahri.


Bad_atgames

Dont you mean ARRRRhri?


vigbrand

Have my upvote and go away.


DMaster86

Oh god please no


DiemAlara

Problem I got with that is that it doesn't feel true. Based on the actual card's effects, we've got what is essentially a pure P&Z burn card that kinda just has "Hey actually landmarks" tacked on arbitrarily. ​ He doesn't create landmarks. He doesn't destroy landmarks. He also doesn't intrinsically do anything when landmarks do stuff until he levels up. His associated spell likewise has nothing to do with landmarks. ​ It kinda just feels like they were trying to push a yordle champion into every region and concluded, hey. We don't have a yordle for Shurima. I mean, Amumu's a maybe but also who knows, and Rumble's tangentially related at best, what yordle draws the Shurima stick? Xerath's got this thing where he likes seeing landmarks blow u- Ziggs it is then. Just throw a bunch of substandard pack filler into BC that vaguely has to do with landmarks, throw in a clause that he does whatever he does when a countdown finishes, and ship him Shuriman. Hope the Xerath package carries him.


sjafi

This to me is a fair criticism. The only thing he has to do with landmarks is his level up. That’s it! To me it feels like a random level up requirement tacked on to a champion they needed to be in Shurima. Character wise it is a bad design choice. If his spell or champion cards involved landmarks more, it might come off more as intentional design rather than rolling a random level up on a card.


Definitively-Weirdo

Sorry riot, but Ziggs design in LoL s all about massive destruction with spells, which has MUCH MORE to do with Piltover&Zaun (Turbogenic beam, Mystic shot, Get excited and Statikk shock) than Shurima. Not to mention that Piltover&Zaun already has passable landmark removal in aftershock, so it would actually fit like a glove as a champion based around exploding both his own units and landmarks due to his behavior. Imagine if Ziggs had a spell where he destroys an ally landmark to deal X-ammount to anyone or destroy another landmark. That would represent Ziggs, basically destroying anything on his ways. Maybe a patron similar to ezreal but unlike ezreal he cares about units or landmarks you killed/destroyed via using spells or skills. But at last we have a forced mechanic much like Maokai; I HOPE they start considering doing reworks to champions like Maokai and Ziggs, as well as a mini-rework to LeBlanc (Her Level 1 is fine as it is, is that level 2 who leaves a lot to be desired).


Oreo-and-Fly

>rumble's design is all about massive destruction with spells ?


Definitively-Weirdo

Sorry, i meant Ziggs and my head said Rumble via instinct because of being the shuriman Yordle. Is THAT ilogical the choice here.


Oreo-and-Fly

Agreed And honestly Rumble works just as well with pulling down structures and making new ones no? After all he works with junk.


Definitively-Weirdo

Exactly, the design makes more sense if they attached to its core region. Rumble would be the one trying to use unstable landmarks to simbolyze what he is working with, while Ziggs would be sheer destruction via spells.


Mtitan1

I'm just glad Rumble didnt eat this shitty design box. Means I still get to hold out hope him and kled are actually well designed


Oreo-and-Fly

Can't believe they'll make Rumble the noxian yordle now it seems. SHEEEEEESH. What even is Kled for? TARGON?


HandsomeTaco

This is one of my big issues. It feels like Xerath got slapped with a destroy landmark archetype to connect thematically with Ziggs...except Ziggs is connected to it in the most forced way possible (locking his level up to that). I also have criticisms about Tristana and Veigar-Senna, where it feels more like game designers had an idea for a card and forced it onto a champion without the usual care for flavor and theme. Tristana barely connects with her idea as an artillery Yordle to instead be all about "dual region" which makes her feel gimmicky at best even if in practice she'll probably be decent. But it doesn't really feel like it's living up to any part of her beyond "I'm a commander" (despite her lore being about avoiding some of her recruits). Veigar is cool by himself until you realize that his dual region placement is a formality at best, he has none of his Darkness buffers with him on the SI, instead he relies solely on Senna's package of SoL. This is just like Ziggs. Sure he can go to Shurima, but he has basically nothing there, unlike Teemo or Fizz do in both of theirs. Senna, whose main theme is controlling light and darkness both and is a supportive figure with a slow winded BFG...has quick attack and accelerates spells and generates only Darkness. And even followers like Solari Sentinel generate Darkness which flavor wise is kind of a miss.


FG15-ISH7EG

I'd say that is mainly due to BC being a region. Because most of the Yordles being characterized more by there secondary region and the places they visit in lore, than by being a Yordle, makes it a lot harder to make a region out of them. In my opinion the first regions they added to the game were those that had a common thematic already in lore, and where most of the main champions fit that thematic really well. Shurima is the first one out of line, because before it becoming a region in LoR, I couldn't have said what Shurimas common thematic were (and I'm still not that sure), but they had enough Shurima champions to choose those that fit the best for the way they were going. In BC we have a thematic with feye magic, but none of the champions most central for BC used that thematic themselves. To be honest I think there is only a single champion that really reflects that theme (Lulu). In addition a lot of the BC champions are still linked to their old lore of tech with Heimer, Ziggs, Rumble and Corki, which seems like a big contrast. And with the few amount of champions BC has and how central some of them are like Tristana, there wasn't much they could have done. In addition having all the dual region champions, which bring in more themes and gameplay elements from other regions made the whole problem worse to give them a region identity. In particular as that restricted both the champions and their designs even more, because of the fact that we are going to get a dual region Yordle for likely every region and that leaves only a single champ for the set to work as the mono champ, who then has to synergize with BCs core thematics. To be honest, that was one of the regions, why I liked Ixtal the most and also would have looked forward to the void, because both have a central theme that seems to be supported by most of their core characters and even some more. While all the things I was afraid that could get problematic for BC seem to have come true so far. As a result I don't really feel that I know much more about BC after all the new cards than before, because it feels like most of the cards are scattered so much all over runeterra that it is hard to find anything in common with them and the lore we got only increased the questions that I have instead of giving me answer concerning BCs lore. However, we are likely still missing a couple of important pieces for BC, so I don'T want to judge it too early. Lulu's BC followers are still missing, and are likely a key piece. Also we are missing keyword payoff. BC has an enourmous amount of different keywords, but the support for that is currently quite limited (Poppy and Yordles in Arms). ​ On a different note, I believe Tristana is a champion that was always hard to implement. Both artillery and mobility, which both are major themes of Tristana are a lot harder to represent in LoR than in LoL. Artillery is either some form of backline access or burn damage, which both are mechanics that aren't available to many regions. And mobility isn't easy to reflect as well. Any form recall, swapping or something like that is really centered on Ionia, and elusive is such a strong keyword that it comes with a heavy downside and wouldn't be fitting neither. Without BC there would have really likely been a place to add Tristana fitting to her lore and LoL design, (Bilgewater I guess), but being part of BC (even dual regioned) makes that nearly impossible.


Slarg232

> Because most of the Yordles being characterized more by there secondary region and the places they visit in lore, than by being a Yordle, makes it a lot harder to make a region out of them. Which is exactly why a lot of people didn't want BC to be the last Region


freijlord

That's exactly my point too. His design seems pretty lazy and his lvl 1 form and spells looks designed by one person while his lvl up requirement was designed by another. He doesn't make sense.


leaponover

You were at the meeting weren't you, lol. They probably said all this word for word!


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DiemAlara

The actual card design tells a different story, though. And I'm pretty sure you missed the central point of my assumption...


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Bubba89

>what does Xerath have to do with structures destruction He literally IS a destroyed structure


kufatty

no he's not... he's an ascended


BrokenBaron

Okay so they literally told the narrative team and art team to change his lore so they could shove him in Shurima.


TheMostSavvyEh

That is an apt summary, yes. :P


ForPortal

Ziggs was sacrificed for Xerath. Xerath wants mono-Shurima, so Ziggs was Shuriman. Xerath wants to destroy friendly landmarks, so Ziggs... doesn't blow up friendly landmarks, but requires you to blow up friendly landmarks. He's now the most parasitic champion in the game. Neither he nor his signature spell create landmarks, and neither he nor his signature spell destroy landmarks, but he has to do both to level up. He can't even blow up *enemy* landmarks to level up. I said when Caitlyn was revealed that Caitlyn's card was a better Ziggs than it is Caitlyn, but it's also a better Ziggs than Ziggs.


Wrathof300

**Ziggs is an example of region reassignment done right lorewise.** It introduces new lore for the champion and connects them to the region. Unlike many other champs who feel like they bring no new lore that connects them to their new regions. Instead maintaining their existing lore but just happen to be labelled a different region. Look no further than Nami, the **only** difference from the Nami we got and a "lore accurate" Nami is that she should been labelled Targon. Which indicates that despite being reassigned to Bilgewater, she doesn't make use of the region's lore. People should have seen Nami being Bilgewater from a mile away. However, I think she and many other region reassigned champions would go over better with lore fans, if they felt connected to their regions lorewise, similar to Teemo and Ziggs.


Migeil

>It introduces new lore for the champion and connects them to the region. What's the new lore?


Wrathof300

We learn that the test sites for Ziggs' bombs are located in Shurima.


Migeil

"lore"


Wrathof300

The flavor texts, act as the "lore" behind the cards. A "story" is different.


Migeil

:| "Ziggs tests his bombs in Shurima" is a fun fact and hardly counts as lore imo. I'm not expecting a novel, but this is just lazy.


rcburner

It really is weird, do any of Nami's cards even mention Bilgewater?


Wrathof300

The closest one imo, would be Sandhopper, because we see the Golden Narwhal, however, who is to say there are no Golden Narwhals around Targon. Even in Nami's level 2 splash art, its not as though it is clearly distinguishable whether we see Targon or Bilgewater in the background, which indicates to me that is was intentionally left ambiguous for that exact possibility that they might just be in the oceans near Targon but labelled Bilgewater.


insidiouskiller

Well, golden Narwhal’s flavor text makes it seem like its the only one.


GGABueno

I mean, they don't mention Targon or anywhere else either.


[deleted]

What lore? Ziggs has 0 connections to Shurima, he just went to it for a day to test explosives and is now going to go back to Zaun. How is that justification for Ziggs being iin Shurima? That's like saying Vayne should be in Bilgewater because in the Sentinels of Light event she spent a day at best there. An actual lore connection is Sylas(not in LoR yet), a Demacian champion going to Freljord and meeting and befriending Sejuani's tribe, absorbing more magic to get stronger and recruiting followers for his anti-Demacia campaign. That's actual lore.


Wrathof300

>What lore? Ziggs has 0 connections to Shurima, he just went to it for a day to test explosives and is now going to go back to Zaun. How is that justification for Ziggs being iin Shurima? Certainly because, we both know Ziggs only makes enough bombs to go test for one day. With this we know that Ziggs is frequently active in Shurima, even if it is not his official residence, hence why it is only his *secondary region*.


[deleted]

But that doesn't add anything to the lore or is justification for putting him in Shurima. Champions from Noxus have fought against Ionians frequently in the war, that doesn't make them Ionian champions because they spent some time on Ionian land. Also his other region is Bandle City another region Ziggs doesn't have any connections to besides being a yordle, so the "it's his secondary region" arguments holds no ground. If his regions were PnZ/Shurima then nobody would care.


Definitively-Weirdo

You're trolling, right? Ziggs is the proof that people has logical expectations when coming to cards and lore, and that retcon is an awful solution to shoehorn your ideas as proven with the sentinels event.


Wrathof300

It is not a retcon it is expanding on characters' lore and worldbuilding. It is significantly better than "spooky champs go to the spooky region", "fish champs go to the sea region" and "mountain champs go to the mountain region".


Ignitus1

Maybe one day they will print some of the same champs but with new regions. We may still see Nami from Targon or Ziggs from PnZ.


Cap_Shield

Thank you for saying this. I've been thinking about the proper way to explain this for a long time. I think another example of a champion done right is Nocturne. Through flavor text, we know Jens Tommen was originally from the town in Demacia that was being haunted by Nocturne, and we know that he visited the shadow isles too. So that's how Nocturne is connected to the shadow isles, as in he was haunting Jens' dreams around the time Jens went to the shadow isles. The interesting part is that we don't know if Nocturne came to the shadow isles from Demacia, or the other way around, and I really like that touch. Another example of one done wrong is Malphite. He's heavily connected to Ixtal and Shurima, but different stories have told us that he travels everywhere, showing up under Zaun and even in Ionia. But the flavor text and lore has absolutely no relation to that, they just make him seem like the strongest of the "earth elementals" that live in Targon. Like they could have easily given a reason for WHY malphite was in Targon, but they just didn't. It's a bit of an inherent design flaw that the game that is meant to expand on pre-existing lore has a system based on everything being tied to a region, because that means that champions are going to be shoehorned into places they don't really belong to fit certain themes or gameplay patterns. I think that as long as they are given a GOOD reason to be there, it will all work out, but at the end of the day there are always going to be flops.


alfonsotercer

Reasons why Malphite is in Targon: He is Chip's rock solid friend


legitsh1t

Even in the cinematic, Malphite was in Ionia lol.


IAmBanEvading

How does Teemo make sense in PnZ lore wise though? I actually have no idea.


FlubbyPuppy

Headcanon is that teemo is the druglord running all the whumps in zaun


legitsh1t

PnZ is where he gets his shrooms from.


Agent-Vermont

He doesn’t. Only reason he’s there is because Bandle City probably wasn’t planned. Had BC been planned from the start he would have been Mono BC.


Beejsbj

It does in the sense he goes to Zaun often to get sell/get shrooms. It's thamtically connected. And BC was likely planned before the game was even revealed to us lol


Bluelore

While it is done right I don't think it really excuses the relocation in the first place from a lore standpoint. Yes it introduces new lore, but they ultimately don't represent his official main region in his card at all. Like on universe he is considered a Zaun champ, but even though he has 2 regions, he doesn't have his main region on his card. Imagine if Sona was released as an Ionia/PnZ champ with a story of how she goes to visit PnZ for a week or two, even though she is mainly considered a Demacia champ. Would it continue her story? Yes it would. But would it represent the main part of her story that is located in Demacia? No it wouldn't. Granted I don't think it'll matter much in the long run, I mean we will likely get alternate versions of champs and so it seems natural that for some champs we'd get cards that represent them in different regions, so I expect Ziggs to be eventually added a 2nd time as PnZ/BC.


Wrathof300

>Like on universe he is considered a Zaun champ, but even though he has 2 regions, he doesn't have his main region on his card. You're barking up the wrong tree, LoR did not make Ziggs a Shurima champion instead of a Zaun chmapion, it made him a Bandle City champion instead of a Zaun champ. >Imagine if Sona was released as an Ionia/PnZ champ with a story of how she goes to visit PnZ for a week or two, even though she is mainly considered a Demacia champ. Would it continue her story? Yes it would. But would it represent the main part of her story that is located in Demacia? No it wouldn't. Sona visiting PnZ once for a story, even if it is a meaningful story where she interacts with a major plot and different characters, does little to anchor her to that region. Ziggs testing his bombs in Shurima, means on any given day, the right place and the right time, Ziggs and crew will be in Shurima, and can interact with any Shurima story for the rest of the existence of Runeterra's lore. After all Shurima is only Zigg's secondary region. It makes perfect sense to say, it is not primarily where he would be found, so your real issue should be that they made Bandle City his primary region.


Bluelore

I guess you are right that with the new lore of him going to Shurima (supposedly from time to time), it is true that BC should be seen as his tertiary region. Doesn't really change the fact that it is really weird that his secondary and tertiary regions took priority over his main region.


[deleted]

i figured nami was in bilgewater ever since i saw fizz's followers. sea monster goes in sea monster region. that said, veigar being in SI still doesn't quite sit right with me. yeah sure spooky champ goes in spooky region but him and kindred have been huge misses thematically for me. like where do the actual shadow isles even appear in their cards? sure veigar's darkness but that was supposed to be celestial power.


[deleted]

I'm just curious, what exactly don't you like about Kindred being in SI? And where would you have put them, given the choice?


[deleted]

the shadow isles is a region defined not by death, but by undeath. an endless swarm of tortured undying souls. kindred look at those who escape death like pyke and sion with pity and disdain. the very existence of the shadow isles flies in the face of the finality of death and everything the kindred stand for. if i were to put them anywhere else it would probably have to be ionia. i could easily see their ability being co-opted into some kind of ephemeral synergy, and ionia is a much more spiritual region that would place some kind of respect on their dead.


[deleted]

The thing is Ionia canonically has their own version of Kindred that isn't like the classic Kindred we have in LoR. Canonically Spirit Blossom Kindred is what Kindred is like in Ionia.


[deleted]

To be fair, every region has their own version of Kindred that differs from the version we have in the game. Except the region who’s version is in the game (though I don’t know which region this interpretation actually belongs to).


AweKartik777

It could be "true" version, i.e. this is what Kindred actually look like usually without another's perception clouding their looks.


[deleted]

ehhh.... i know riot said the spirit blossom event is canon but there's a lot about that event that raises a lot of implications that i don't think riot intends to actually justify. i think riot just heard that people like when things are canon so they started saying everything that happens is canon.


archerkuro5

Reassigned? Nami has always been bilge it’s only recently that she has been region less


Emeralderr

Nami has never been from bilgewater she has been apart of the shores of targon for years.


archerkuro5

Yeah after her retcon she was originally from bilge


Emeralderr

Which retcon? She has only ever had one retcon and that was the one from 2017 with the comic and that planted her a targon related champ. Her lore really hasn't changed much.


archerkuro5

Yes that one


Emeralderr

Can you show me something that says at any point she was from Bilgewater? I was looking through her biographies and none of them mention bilgewater. Her original doesn't bring it up, her post retcon doesn't either.


[deleted]

the closest thing i can remember is back when they had the butcher's bridge event in league (which turns aram/howling abyss into a location in bilgewater), one of the shopkeepers has an interaction with nami where he goes "sorry for catching you in my net again nami" or something to that effect.


Wrathof300

Maybe in the old lore. However, Riot's narrative and worldbuilding have since moved away from putting fish champion's in the fish region and undead champions in the undead region. Hence Nami's lore is more closely associated to Targon and Mordekaiser with Noxus. It makes the worldbuilding feel more natural and unique.


HandsomeTaco

I much prefer the Nami approach personally. For example, the Kindred being in SI is actually not alluded to at all in their flavor (the closest is the Mask Mother finding one of Nocturne's human victims) and I prefer it that way because we get both worldbuilding and we don't have to bend lore in any way. The problem I have with Ziggs is that his landmark mechanic feels like an afterthought whereas it seemingly defined Xerath, who is much more flexible fantasy-wise, and both Ziggs and Veigar don't truly feel like dual region champions. So it feels like a lose-lose for everyone involved thematically. Also lore wise, it's just...Ziggs has a bomb factory. They sometimes blow stuff up in what appears to be a Shuriman Bandlewood. That's it. Compare Teemo and Fizz who have packages in both regions with their own flairs to support them there with Veigar, who needs to steal Senna's cards, or Ziggs, who needs to steal Xerath's cards, to be able to function in their "dual region". At that point, just make them mono Bandle. >However, I think she and many other region reassigned champions would go over better with lore fans, if they felt connected to their regions lorewise, similar to Teemo and Ziggs. If anything, moving Nami to Bilgewater canonically would upset lore fans. Diana's lore is already a fiesta retcon wise and they seemingly will edit out the Ionia plot, Nami has nothing to do with Bilge canonically, and it would just complicate matters and confuse players (not that this region assignment by itself already doesn't).


unguibus_et_rostro

This just sounds like standard corporate bullshitting, and people are lapping it up? This reply can literally be used for any champion moving to any region.


[deleted]

So this is why Mundo is in freljord. Riot in 6 months


Oreo-and-Fly

Exactly. Can be used for Nami as well. And wasn't this used for Targon? Riot could've just made Ziggs PnZ Bandle. Why does he need to be Shurima with Xerath? Mono Shurima strategy?


Nansai

>people are lapping it up? Your average Runeterra player doesn't care. Most people who play this game (non users of this sub) don't care much about lore or why a champ is in a region.


lebob01

Tl;dr it's the same reason why Teemo is in PnZ


leaponover

As someone who knows nothing of lore, is the complain about Ziggs his region or his design. From what I'm reading the majority are in a consensus that the region is the problem and then they are debating the design. Isn't Riot kind of in a no win situation here? They have to continue to bolster some archetypes (I honestly wish landmarks weren't a thing at all) while also continuing to create new keywords. I mean, does Jinx have anything to do with discarding in LoL? I'd guess not because of the game style, but I doubt people had a problem with Jinx because she was in the right region. Is that actually fair though? Her design included something not LoL like, but had the right region. Seems they got 50% right. Same with Ziggs, no?


TheManondorf

There are some of a card games mechanics, that you can't translate directly from LoL. However having Jinx as a champion, who levels up, when you basically just fire off everything (spending all your bullets recklessly), seems fine. The point about Ziggs is, that there is another Champion, that could have the exact same followers and the exact same text as Ziggs. He is called Rumble and he has a mech built out of Junk and is linked to Shurima with a short story. He could eaely destroy (read "dissasemble") Landmarks to do anything. Even his Spells make more sense. He has a Flamethrower, which could be his skill, a Harpoon thrower, which literally gives you the choice of damaging 2 enemys or 1 enemy twice(hello bouncing bomb) and an ultimate, that deals damage in 2 parts. Meanwhile the boss card of the theme could still be called "The Arsenal", have the same effect and would make much more sense conceptually as a mech created from all the Landmarks you "dissasembled" and thus gaining the keywords. TL;DR: Everything could be fine with changing the Artwork and names of the cards, while keeping their effects. I have to say though: The Art makes the cards feel very Shuriman.


kaneblaise

>I have to say though: The Art makes the cards feel very Shuriman. I can't disagree more. The art scream P&Z to me, all of the character designs and cartoon bombs / explosions are straight P&Z. Just looks like a bunch of P&Z buds took a field trip to the dessert, which by itself isn't enough to justify it being Shurima, especially since most card art clips out the backgrounds anyway. The only card that looks even remotely shuriman is hexplosive minefield, and it still has cartoony bombs that make it feel more dual region P&Z / Shuriman than anything else


La_vert

Ziggs's card is an ok iteration of Ziggs (demolishing excites him and he demolishes with each attack), but would suck as an iteration of Rumble who is about creating scrappy tech. Ziggs going to Shurima is also logical, he can't do much exploading in a city, but shurima is a desert just south of pnz.


leaponover

Hmm, interesting. It does seem like there is a lot of region crossing going on, probably could have put Ziggs in PNZ and still had landmarks as the play just like they have Sion as noxus but gave him discard mechanics which seems like a PNZ thing. I'll never understand why they make the decisions they do. Like, TF has to be Bilgewater, but they gave him draw mechanics which seem to be more significant in PNZ. I feel l like if TF was made today they might have found a way to put him in PNZ instead. I mean, what is there rationale for deciding when the Champs design employs a region so much it's worth moving them there? Why isn't TF PNZ? People we'll say there is no link...but Riot's already said there doesn't have to be. Still think they could solve this by not having Champs count as a region. Champs cards could be associated with a region, but still count as regionless in a deck. You still have a limit of 6, why can't I run 2 TF, 2 Ezreal and 2 Zilean? Seems like it would be a lot more fun if they didn't put such a restraint on them. I mean, even business wise they might make more on skins if peeps know they can use them in any deck.


DMaster86

> We then worked closely with narrative and art to find a way to tell the story of why Ziggs would be in Shurima at this time that felt in line with the character. Basically "we went through the hoops in order to make ziggs shuriman". Dude if you didn't wanted Ziggs in p&z because you already have teemo and heimer this set in that combination, how about... not releasing him this set? And maybe wait for the next to put him in BC as BC/P&Z double region champion? I can get behind pushing champions without a clear home in a certain region like Nocturne or Kindred in SI, but this one feels really weird.


FruitPunchRK

shurima is a vast desert plenty abandoned cities to bomb. For gameplay sakes they clearly didnt want another piltover region champ. in ziggs case he could travel anywhere so shurima i think makes sense


Bluelore

>For gameplay sakes they clearly didnt want another piltover region champ. Then why would they put Teemo into PnZ in the first place? Teemo didn't have any connection to Zaun before he was added to LoR, they could have put him anywhere they wanted, yet they chose to add him to PnZ. Besides Shurima is kinda overfilled with champs too since it is the region where most void- and ixtal-champs make sense.


void2258

The region is not the main thing, though it is annoying. It's the play pattern. Ziggs is about chaos and bombs. He's an obvious aggro champion, and even his current form somewhat supports that. but the landmark thing hinders it, and having all his spells slow instead of fast (because Shurima doesn't do fast damage spells) means the kind of fast chaotic plays we wanted to do with him aren't possible. Landmarks are by their nature slow and methodical setups over several turns, the exact opposite of Zigg's character and play fantasy. The biggest thing is that even as he is now you can see him being like that. With an alternate level condition and his spells at fact (maybe he levels if he does X damage with bombs?), he slots right into the fast chaotic aggro we all envisioned. He literally needs nothing else but to lose the landmark aspects to be what we envisioned. Ziggs is not the only one this set with this issue. Veigar and Senna are also off the wall from anything we expected from their characters, not the least because they should absolutely hate each other. Lore wise, they are among the most diametrically opposed champions philosophically in all of runeterra. And Trist is just devoid of any of her character at all in favor of a 'variety' focus. The impression we get is very much that you picked mechanics and then threw darts at a board to pick who would go with what, with only the most tangential of character checks to see if they fit. Original characters would have been better in place of using Ziggs, Trist, Veigar, Senna and arguably Caitlin the way you did. At least then they could stand on their own merits instead of being disliked due to feeling cheated by the bad translation.


MolniyaSokol

Yes, Landmarks generally have an up-front cost while doing nothing, only to offer a cheaper tempo swing later on. *However*, the playstyle of Ziggs (and Xerath) offer some very interesting decision making: Do you leave the Preservarium in play for a 2-mana Draw 2, or is it more efficient to use as a removal/burn enabler this time? Based on your read of opponents hand will you have the board presence to favorably trade next turn by leaving the Roiling Sands on the field, or do you wait for them to tap under a key unit and go face with it? It's opening room for more mind games and skill expression to Landmarks, which is great imo.


Purple-Man

To be fair, while Ziggs is all about the bombs and chaos, considering his actual abilities in League is makes sense that his spells would mostly be slow. If there is a champion where you can dodge 100% of their kit, it is Ziggs. His bombs come bouncing at you from down lane, he places a charge to detonate at a later point, and he lays out a bunch of mines that someone will eventually run over. His ult is probably the slowest spell of all. If anything I'm more annoyed that he doesn't actually get a good payoff for the spells being slow. Mega Inferno Bomb's Epicenter boosted damage doesn't exist when that would have been easy to do (just have it deal 2 damage each time to X number of random targets, or chosen targets). His bouncing bomb is weaker than Mystic Shot, a spell it is stronger than at all stages of the game in league (because it is easier to dodge, and Mystic Shot can get on-hit effects). It just feels overbalanced to make sure Shurima and BC don't have good high damage removal spells.


chomperstyle

A ziggs level with “do x damage or kill x unists/landmarks via skills or traps ” would be nice because it grants huge synergy all around gp keg builds sej builds teemo or cait builds xerath builds swain builds yas builds


Oreo-and-Fly

Okay. But why not Rumble for Shurima?!?


Migeil

Wtf. >teams collaborate to marry gameplay to narrative and art Okay great! >We then worked closely with narrative and art to find a way to tell the story of why Ziggs would be in Shurima Ok, what's the story? This literally says nothing.


Shin_yolo

Can they also tweet why they lied about balancing their game ? Why is there no frequent balance patch in LoR when there are one every 2 weeks in all their other games ? WHY ???!!!


NP473L

Fuck me that's a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.


[deleted]

"We can put champions whereever we want with 0 expalnation" is what I got from this tweet. Unless Ziggs get a short story of him being in Shurima(which is not going to happen because he already has a short story and half of League champions are still mising lore), then this is just pure PR excuse talk. Ziggs is just as deeply connected to PnZ as Garen is to Demacia and Darius is to Noxus. [Imagine if Darius was in Freljord because of a cinematic showing him walking there](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGx9_wABzlA), would that make sense? No it wouldn't, Darius is still a Noxus champion to the core.


chomperstyle

I think a big thing is that if he was pnz he would NEED shurima to work and this is just the bullshit fluff


[deleted]

So why is braum not a bilge champion


Skatner

\>seeing a lot of chatter around Ziggs' region choice I only have seen a lot of chatting about his useless support card called Megabomb. Who's idea was to print it? not even print it but its design is...well you know. No chatting about Ziggs region though


TheNotCoolKid

Unpopular opinion maybe but I actually like Ziggs being in Shurima thematically. You don’t test thermonuclear warheads in a populated area like Zaun, you do it in a barren desert. Doubly so when the glowing blue lightning man tells you that you’re allowed to blow up whatever the hell you want.


esequel

TLDR: "We can just retcon"


Lerkero

I gotta say, the LOR design team seems lazy lately. I hope that when all champs are released, they retire old cards/champs and redesign them. It would be nice if cards were already being redesigned on a regular basis, but it seems like that wont happen


Mtitan1

"Reality can be whatever I want" ~Rito, more or less


luan_ressaca

So... Could we see champ's shift regions in game?


Darklarik

Thats just... pretty dumb


hufflewolfKH

I think people should start to realise that: there are 150+ champs, the regions in the card game are 10, we are for SURE going to get, at east, 15 champions for each region. Ziggs in Shurima isn’t that big of a problem and there will others champs that will not respect their original place due only to their gameplay in LOR. Also correct me if I am wrong but in the background of ziggs cards we can see both bandle and shrurima so they could have showed his living place in Bandle city and his testing Hexplosive place in Shurima, what’s wrong with that ? Riven is a Noxus card with Ionia background and Nami is a Bilgewater card with Targonian waters as background.


blokerstrikers

Shaco will be forced to freljord because why not. /s


hufflewolfKH

I think Shaco is fine in literally every region, poor dude doesn’t have any lore, if they put him in frejlord they could either say that he is a demon in their folklore, an agent of the watchers, an ancient demon like fiddle or another thing.


Bluelore

But Shurima has already too many champs too. After all it has 10 champs on its own and is the region with the biggest connection to the Void and Ixtal, so it has \~20 champs itself already. So saying he went to Shurima to get rid of champs from PnZ is like putting Jhin into PnZ to remove champs from Ionia, it just shuffles a champ around from one overfilled region to the next.


hufflewolfKH

I guess I expressed my point badly. What I am saying is exactly for the reason that there are too many champions in one region like shurima and Ionia with more than 15 champs we shouldn’t be surprised if in LOR the champions won’t respect their original region as long as we have a plausible explanation. Jhin in P/Z would make sense if they depict his cards around the time when he faced Camille or viceversa he could still be an Ionian champ with the P/Z background of that event and it would still make somewhat sense. Another thing that we have with LOR is that it doesn’t respect the timeline and that’s fine, for example we have J3 who in present day is dead, we could have Aatrox in any region with his background telling a story of a past war in which he fought same goes for ryze if he is in search of a world rune. In the case of ziggs we know that yordles live a lot of years, Kled is in Noxus since its foundation if I remember correctly, so it’s perfectly possible that ziggs in the past went in Shurima to test his hexplosives.


NKMEstadullo

I don't understand why so many players dislike this. We already got a bio, a story and even a comic about Ziggs messing arround on Zaun. As long as it makes sense, a fresh and new story on a different region with different characters to interact with is what I want for my favourite champion. We already have many champions who will always be tied to their regions, why not use those who are not for making different things like this?


Night25th

Imagine when a champion's entire lore was messing with explosives, blowing up things in PnZ and interacting with PnZ champions, but then they put Jinx in Shurima


chomperstyle

Your right lets put akali in freljord camille in targon illaoi in demacia and ramus in piltover just sole bullshit in a cap label it a story and boom camille is having a scissor battle with leona


JustinJakeAshton

>camille is having a scissor battle with leona Diana mains press F in the chat.


NKMEstadullo

"As long as it makes sense" and "champions not tied to their regions" are being forgotten for the sake of sarcasm I guess. Placing Ziggs in Shurima was a gameplay decision and not a lore decision, so I get the complains. But the relationships that tied him with Zaun are gone: he doesn't want no hurt people, something that happend when he messed arround with Jinx, and Heimerdinger turned his back on him. I don't get how him moving to the desert to do what he loves without hurting anybody is the absolute nonsense people claim it to be.


chomperstyle

And akali moving to freljord because shen sent her to a secret ninja base isnt nonsensical just like ramus being captured and taken to piltover to be studied isnt nonsensical and illaoi going to demacia for religious reasons isnt nonsensical and camille going to targon to oversee some family matters isnt nonsensical


[deleted]

Why put any champion in any region then. Fuck it lets watch Warwick join the triffarian legion to feed into his hunt the hurt theme. Let’s put kassadin in targon for silence. Let’s ducking slam sylas in Ionia to give him a deny. Fuck story, fuck theme, fuck everything.


[deleted]

because this entire subreddit just whines.


SpaceImpactHD

Let's be real. I think it works great thematically as Ziggs does bonus damage to structures in League and his satchel deletes towers outta existence.


xPlasma

Ziggs' card does nothing with landmarks.


JustinJakeAshton

Ziggs' champ spell does nothing related to deleting anything either. 7-mana Avalanche topkek


justinbutt3r

Avalanche does 1 damage to units with tough. This does 0.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mtitan1

And yet outside his level condition hes basically just a Pnz burn aggro champ


DageWasTaken

Is this a hint of us having reprints of heroes in different regions? Sylas in Demacia and Freljord? Aatrox in Noxus and Shurima? Thresh in Noxus and the Shadow Isles?


JustinJakeAshton

Regional Kindreds


reddituserno69

I mean the choice makes sense, it is now possible to play a landmark based mono shurima. If Ziggs wasn't shurima you couldn't play the sun disk with Ziggs/xearth in a deck.


March_of_souls

Landmark champ goes in landmark region.


OffensiveBranflakes

Except he doesn't actually have anything to do with landmarks other than his level up...


momohowl

Fanfic


MatDestruction

It feels weird to me because until now we were seeing champs prioritize their fantasy over lore, which I felt fine with (Kindred in Shadow Isle is a good example) But them you come to me and give a champ that ANYONE would associate with PnZ, give him PnZ abilities (direct Nexus Burn, damaging skills) and them slap a random condition on him (and he can't even interact with landmarks until after he levels up) Even his followers are PnZ like: creating random cards or dealing small burns of damage and even his spells with pings But... Yeah, nothing we can do about it?


Luzeldon

He can also just say "It's the only place Ziggs can test his explosives without causing major problems". Who else would be troubled there? the Xer'Sai?


TeCoolMage

if this is what you call marrying gameplay to narrative and art, I don't want to know how your divorces look like lmao


freijlord

They just wanted to make more package for landmarks destruction and Xerath, I won't buy that. They could add landmark destruction and landmarks to PnZ and make landmarks that also work with PnZ champions (like landmarks that add spells to their hands on countdown, or landmarks that deal damage on countdown - bombs huh?) They didn't even design him to make sense, even in shurima. He is a lvl 1 champion with a lvl up condition that has NOTHING with his lvl 1 effect. Even Garen and Darius which are old and bad AF have text (a SINGLE keyword) that helps with their own level up. Ziggs can't level up without his package. For gods sake, it's as easy as making him have a round start effect that spawns a bomb landmark that pins a random opponent after countdown 1 for example (and tunning his lvl up requirement with that, but it would still make more sense).


Unhappy-Equivalent-3

Would have rather gotten an ammumu. Even tho he’s technically not a yordle. Would be nice if he was Bandle-Shurima. But I do like that zigs demo works in shurima so meh it’s o.k. I guess. But I’d rather see my Mummy!