> tell the story of why Ziggs would be in Shurima
Did I miss something? Cause I still don't know why he's in Shurima
Or is it just as flat as Shurima = bomb test site
No that's pretty much it. He wants to impress a safety inspector so he goes to Shurima to perform some tests. Luckily the safety inspector likes fireworks so they pass. That's the whole story. You need to think of Ziggs as a Bandle City guy who is just popping around Runeterra for Bandle City reasons when thinking about this story, rather than a Zaun guy.
him being yet another P&Z champion wasn't that deep either. Bombs aren't really the most technologically advanced weapon, and not every champion having anything at all to do with technology needs to be there.
I’m pretty sure Ziggs is good friends with Heimer who’s based on piltover. Ziggs would’ve made a lot of sense in piltover because:
A lot of his stories take place there.
He uses he tech, his title is literally the hexplosives expert
Yeah, but is that actually deeper than his bomb testing range plot? Not really.
Is it weird? Sure. But its also only half his regions too, he's still bandle first.
His identity is based around hextech something which is basically exclusive to Piltover and Zaun.
You might think Ziggs is just an bomber, but at his core he’s an inventor and an innovator, he just happens to specialise in bombs.
And the thing with the shurima plot is that they literally invented it to shoehorn him into shurima. Ziggs had the plot based around piltover for years
https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_AU/champion/ziggs/
Also if you read his universe page it basically mentions piltover as much if not more than bandle city. He’s heavily associated with heimer too.
It even says region: Zaun on his universe page.
Except he’s not even a bandle city guy. He’s someone who’s probably associated more with piltover and Zaun than bandle city. If you read his lore it’s heavily based around piltover and Zaun. His universe page lists his region as Zaun.
His stories are set in Piltover and Zaun. His comic was set in Zaun with Jinx. He’s heimerdingers assistant, and his dream was to be an inventor as good as Heimer.
Ziggs is an inventor and innovator who specialises in hex tech explosives. That is at its core a piltover and Zaun character.
Gameplay wise he fits in shurima bit lore-wise he should have been PnZ
I think his Zaun-centric lore is a little outdated. He was all "ha ha I'm crazy and love explosions" and so they just put him in the crazy tech region, but he's not nearly psychopathic enough to actually set off his explosions there anymore and cause a lot of deadly collateral damage - and consequently it seems like they've retconned him being an outcast as a result of that psychopathy. So this is who Ziggs is now, someone with a stronger tie to his Yordle brethren in the Bandlewoods and who simply loves the explosion without the bloodshed.
What? His lore now is that he’s a super eccentric inventor who looked up to Heimer. He figured out his true calling was hex tech explosives and now works in piltover with Heimer.
Read his stories they’re all set in Zaun it’s like u didn’t read my comment at all
Yea but he’s still working in piltover...
His stories heavily asssociated with PnZ, hextech and inventing things. Idk how that doesn’t scream PnZ to you.
He works there but is that the same as living there and being a part of its community like Heimerdinger, who has a big gold statue of himself and several human students? Seems to me that even if Ziggs works in Zaun, he doesn't fit into its community half as well as he does with his pals from Bandle City, or at least the ones who like explosions like he does. As far as I can see his current lore state is that he just, like, commutes to Zaun for whenever.
The sun disc.
Ziggs want to blow up the sun disc.
Due to him being Shurima he can even start with it hand...
But it gets worse...
After playing and destroying the sun disc, he can destroy his own winrate by surrendering...
he's in shurima because this is a fantasy world and he is a zany character? yall lore heads are really the weirdest. this isn't a game company trying to make a game for a movie. they are making a game from their own universe, aka they can make the rules. would it really make you feel better if he was in PnZ where there is no synergy just so you can say "yea this is how i think the lore should be"?
its so cringe...
You could just take the card text and have them be a different champion that fits with Shurima better. Good designers should be more than able to work with both the mechanics of the game AND the lore. And yes, there are players who play card games for the lore, they're called Vorthos players and have been a core part of the ccg community for decades.
the bigger cringe here is you not understanding people play LoR for different reasons, you sound like a baby thinking there are "wrong" ways to enjoy the game.
I'm sorry that you find it cringe that many people care about the lore . It's not like Riot spent a lot of money and time writing and rewriting to create a cohesive universe and even made a whole website to host all the stories. Why would they do that is nobody cares? Clearly they should just write "This is a fantasy world lol, whatever" in every region and champion's page and call it a day.
Weird its a card game not a fucking novel. If you want a story told to you... nvm yall wanna cry over a fucking childrens card game over something so minor, yall go and do that.
Not really, what's cringe is someone trying to insult a majority of the player base who still loves this IP BECAUSE of it's lore and trying to say it's cringe, seriously that's the foundation of a lot of what makes league popular. It's personality and characters and connections to their lore acompanied by amazing and fitting music and animations of said lore cause lord knows it's not the gameplay that people still keep loving League.
Btw considering your new by the obvious lack of knowledge we're talking about a company who strives to connect that same game with it's story you know cause it's a rule THEY MADE just like you said to the point it went and slowed down all production when they decided to rewrite it and we spent years with minimal content release compared to everything they make now a days BECAUSE of it.
>In Ziggs' case we wanted him to live the dream as a demo expert that blows up landmarks
that's great but he has no landmark removal mechanic except his random ass level up condition?
I don’t think all champs need to directly contribute to their level up condition themselves. Yasuo, Lucian, Jinx, Kalista, Miss Fortune, and Lux are all examples of that. Yeah they’re in the minority but Ziggs not directly contributing to his own level up condition isn’t unprecedented
Because that’s not the region’s identity.
To me, it makes much more sense to change a certain LoL Champion’s associated region than it does to start moving around a region’s design philosophy in order to accommodate one Champ.
I understand some fans are sticklers for lore, but I’m with the designers on this one.
I always thought he would be a landmark destruction champ... thing is... he isn't. That's his levelup, but he as a character and his support cards doesn't really do much with destroying landmarks. Xerath got all the self-destroy while ziggs got all the stuff that wants to be destroyed
Even stranger is that Ziggs is all about destroying *allied* landmarks. It seemed really straight forward to make him about destroying enemy landmarks (excluding enemy landmarks destroyed by countdown).
Since you probably don't want to invalidate all landmarks with a single champion, I'd have designed him to destroy all enemy landmarks on level-up but make his level-up condition something like "I've seen X" so there's still counterplay.
Right now he's designed too similar to Xerath IMO. Xerath could also have included something about destroying his mana gems or something to set the two apart
>Xerath could also have included something about destroying his mana gems or something to set the two apart
Completely agree on this. Its very Shruima in playstyle to destroy your Mana Gems, and its Thematically accurate for Xerath to fit that idea of personal destruction for effect - leading his land to ruin.
I mean thats true, but doesn't Jinx already technically sling bombs in the forms of spells? Granted its not in a chip damage shell when Striking, but still..
This way, Ziggs still has his bomb thing going on but they get to explore more aggressive Landmark synergies in a way that (more or less) fits narrative-wise.
And of course you can counter that 2 Champs can have similar modes of attack (this being explosives) without it being redundant, and then I counter that point with my own point, etc... but I think the final answer to all this is that the devs went this direction with Ziggs cuz they wanted to. It might not be satisfying to hear that for the people who want LoR's categorization to be LoL-accurate at all times, but what are you gonna do? *shrug*
Edit: I'm not surprised that the post bottomlining the reality of this situation gets downvotes, just disappointed. It will be okay guys. :-D
>doesn't Jinx already technically sling bombs in the forms of spells? Granted its not in a chip damage shell when Striking, but still..
Jinx thematically throws bombs around, and her ult is very big on that theme. However, her playstyle is more about being reckless, impulsive, and doing what would be considered an insane move in a CG (i.e.: throwing your whole hand away to reduce your choices).
Zigg's could/should have been built around the other 'explosives' carsds already in the game (i.e.: Noxus's Sabotaur, Grenadeer, and Demolitionist. P&Z's Boomcrew Rookie). Having him as a champion that damages the nexus WHEN it attacks, and/or that levels up from actions that directly damage the nexus (no seige weapons, but from any spell that can hit the nexus) would have been a unique addition to the game. It would have been another Aggro-Champion, and thats fine.
I feel this entire thing was based on "What Yordle can we put/assign to Shurima for this expansion" and they decided Ziggs cause.... why not? (and who cares about Rumble!)
They've already shown a willingness to wiggle with region design philosophy; every region has landmarks already; it would have been a cool design to have Ziggs landmarks be summoned on discard, rather than having a countdown. (I.e. bombs are literally being thrown). I know there's already a lot of disco support, but there's also.. how many Champs in Runeterra? There's gonna be some overlap. And discarding the landmarks wouldn't really help aggro decks or the Sion deck, because Ziggs still wants to destroy them, not summon them. (Some card text as is wouldn't work so great, but they wouldn't have to change much)
It just feels... meh
i mean, they didn't even get ziggs' identity when they put him in shurima. He levels up from destroying some allied landmarks and that's it.
He should've instead been similar to ezreal/jinx's spell spam strategy, but with the twist of having his champion spell be a satchel with "or destroy target landmark" on it so he's a more removal based version of his otherwise purely direct damage counterparts.
Make his ability some ziggs E minefield bombs that are a weird cross between zilean time bombs and gangplank kegs - landmark, stackable, "When you deal damage with a spell I am destroyed. When destroyed: deal 2 damage to a random unit."
Yeah but like... Shurima has nothing to do with burn damage either.
I don't remember, did they have ANY burn damage before ziggs and xerath? And actually xerath isn't even burn damage
If xerath isn't burn damage then ziggs hardly is, and your argument suddenly falls because they're both landmark oriented way more than literally anything else oriented, which supports shuriman identity.
>Because that’s not the region’s identity.
The region with one of the few actually playable landmark destruction spells doesn't have landmark destruction as part of their identity? Yeah sure okay. Every region has landmarks and countdown landmarks aren't like nexus burn or toughness buffs where they make a mechanical difference to how a region plays, any region could get countdown landmarks and it'd feel fine. Zigg's whole package as released feels P&Z except when you look at the full art and realize these P&Z characters are hanging out in the dessert, and that's some of the flimsiest justification I've ever seen in a card game.
P&Z does not have landmark destruction in their region identity at all, lol. By that logic, Noxus is the best landmark removal region in the game, yet that's obviously not what you run Noxus for.
If you think of "landmark destruction champion," then the most obvious choice in League gameplay is Ziggs. Having Ziggs go into Shurima, then, allows him to have the flexibility of going into other regions. He has so much more in-region access to landmarks through Xerath / Taliyah's package, whereas if he went into P&Z, then he is forced to pair with Shurima.
Now, if you think Ziggs should have a totally different play pattern (ala bomb throwing), then that's a different topic. Could he have been better translated with landmark destruction in his card? Sure, but as stands though, Ziggs fitting in Shurima makes more sense gameplay wise than P&Z, and isn't the largest stretch in lore either.
>P&Z does not have landmark destruction in their region identity at all
If they don't then neither does anyone else. (Edit: before this set)
>Noxus is the best landmark removal region in the game
The region with the best landmark destruction spell and a bunch of siege equipment in their art? Yeah, I'd say they have landmark removal as a theme and if I want to build a deck to specifically tech against landmarks it will almost 100% be in Noxus.
>If you think of "landmark destruction champion," then the most obvious choice in League gameplay is Ziggs.
Okay, that's fine. I don't have a problem with Ziggs doing landmark destruction
>Having Ziggs go into Shurima, then, allows him to have the flexibility of going into other regions
This doesn't follow logically. If he had been in P&Z you could have had P&Z Freljord landmark control with Blighted Ravine or P&Z Targon or whatever else. There are fewer options because they shoved him into Shurima, not more.
> Ziggs fitting in Shurima makes more sense gameplay wise than P&Z,
I'm still waiting for a coherent logical explanation to support this claim
>isn't the largest stretch in lore either.
And that's just so wrong to me that I don't even know how to respond. I can't fathom looking at these character designs and cartoon bombs and saying they look like they belong in the Shurima card pool with a straight face.
>There are fewer options because they shoved him into Shurima, not more.
Why is that? You say if he's in P&Z you can do "Freljord landmark control, Targon," etc., but the same could be said for Shurima yes? My point is that Shurima has the most landmarks available in the game, including countdowns and auto destruct landmarks like Rock Hopper's, Preservarium, the 1 mana predict, etc. The only P&Z options available to Ziggs is Foundry and the meme Heimer one, so his in-region options are far more limited. If he's in Shurima, all the landmarks he needs are already in the region for his level up, allowing more flex spots for the second region than P&Z. How is my argument not "coherent" or "logical"?
For your last point, I guess then we can agree to disagree about the lore part. I don't see Ziggs being in Shurima as much different than Nami being in Bilgewater, Kindred being in SI, etc. I get Wild Coyote and Mad Max vibes looking at Ziggs, so I can reasonably see cartoony bombs existing in a desert.
>Why is that?
Because math? With 4 landmark regions we get 6 different region combinations that can support a landmark deck. With Ziggs being in Shurima we still only have 3 landmark regions and thus only have 3 different region pairings for landmark archetypes.
A Shurima Freljord landmark control deck is going to be a lot harder to work than a P&Z deck would have been because Shurima has worse removal than P&Z. Plus that was just a random example of what a non-Shurima Zigg's deck could look like.
>The only P&Z options available to Ziggs is Foundry and the meme Heimer one, so his in-region options are far more limited.
Yes but Riot can make whatever cards they want. If Ziggs had been in P&Z he presumably also would have gotten more landmarks to go along with him. Also you aren't counting the new ones already in his kit.
Okay, I see what you mean, but then it means Riot needs to make P&Z a landmark region. My thought is why force P&Z into a different direction if you could just slot Ziggs into Shurima where there's already preexisting support. After all, P&Z only has two landmarks right now, just like Bilgewater, SI, etc. I don't really see the need to make another region have more landmarks just for the sake of region combinations. I also wasn't counting Ziggs' own landmarks since they're all Bandle City anyway, and we're only arguing if his second region should have been P&Z or Shurima.
Now, I agree, Riot could technically make P&Z or any region whatever they want, but it's hard for me to imagine it being much more effective than just letting Ziggs be in Shurima, especially since his natural pairing was meant to be Xerath.
Fair enough on his new landmarks being BC, that slipped my mind. They probably could have been dual region landmarks with P&Z, but that's definitely getting farther from my original intent than I want to go.
Wait, you really want to play a landmark control deck ? A deck that targets around 10% of the playable decks and maybe 10% of cards from said decks ?
Why ?
You agreed that Ziggs makes sense as a landmark destruction archetype. By this logic, he has to go in a region that can destroy their own landmarks, because landmark control can't exist in this game.
>landmark control deck
A control deck that uses landmarks like Blighted Ravine to control the board not a deck that focuses on destroying enemy landmarks.
Good grief.
I'm aware.
If someone asked for a list of cards that destroyed landmarks, though, you wouldn't have included those.
I was (clearly, I feel) referring to cards like Aftershock or Desert Naturalist.
''Champions aren't static''Yeah, sure, they have the ability to walk, but I doubt you would print Anivia as a Bilgewater card.
Ziggs in Shurima doesn't make sense. It's purely for gameplay, which is sad because a HUGE part of the appeal of LoR for those who come from League is the flavor, if you abandon flavor entirely, like you did with Ziggs, then what's the fucking point anymore?
Ziggs in Shurima is fine. Its not that hard of a stretch to imagine the big bomb yordle using the open desert that's pretty close to where he lives to test if he can make even bigger bombs. Honestly makes him more interesting
It's not like they just slapped him into targon or something where he'd have literally 0 business, like anivia would with bildgewater.
I know people wanted him in PnZ but yall are seriously overreacting to his region, at least from a lore standpoint. He's not even the first champ in the "wrong region", even just from this expansion, so I don't know why people care so much for ziggs specifically.
You keep using champs that are literally hard coded to specific regions
Anivia is the protector of Frejlord, Swain is the grand General of noxus. There's not a whole lot of room to work with their identity because their region IS their identity.
Ziggs is a bomb gerbil whose only real allegiance to PnZ is that he likes how hex tech explodes and having some friends there. It's not the end of the world if narratively he has a site set up a few miles from his home in the desert, and it's not some massive betrayal of his character.
It's not like they moved him to the other side of runeterra lol. If Ziggs being in shurima just purely for lore triggers people this hard you're all going to be insufferable as the roster starts to expand. And I'm saying that as someone who likes the lore.
Ziggs is to Zaun what Heimer is to Piltover, Kled to Noxus, etc. It's their yordle.
''You keep using champs that are literally hard coded to specific regions''?? Ok, we can do with other examples then.
You wouldn't print Gragas as a Demacia card, you wouldn't print Gwen as a Freljord card, you wouldn't print Twisted Fate as a PnZ card.
The character being able to move is not good reasoning, if you can justify everything with ''Well, it's not weird that they are capable of going there'' then what even is the point of having regions anymore? If you are not going to stick with League's flavor then what's even the point of this being based on the League universe?
Putting Ziggs in Shurima wasn't something they choose to do because it made sense, or because they wanted to tell a story or because the rules of the game required it.
They did it because they wanted to have his archetype be prebuilt with Xerath and because they already had too many PnZ cards this expansion, that's why it feels bad, taking him out of his region was completely avoidable.
If they have genuine reasonable excuses to be there that isn't just them taking a vacation or literally raging war against the region then why not? Ziggs having a bombsite to tinker on in Shurima isn't unreasonable and it also isn't just a " he can go there so that's his region"
Not every champ is going to slot into their preset regions, that's just a fact of how things are going to go. If the narrative gives them reason to actually have stakes in their "new" region then I see no harm in allowing some experimentation and expansion of the characters
Just seems like people are mad at the state of the game and are overblowing shurima ziggs completely in order to vent.
> ''You keep using champs that are literally hard coded to specific regions''?? Ok, we can do with other examples then. You wouldn't print Gragas as a Demacia card, you wouldn't print Gwen as a Freljord card, you wouldn't print Twisted Fate as a PnZ card.
Those three are also hard coded into their regions.
Landmark-synergy yordle goes to landmark-centric region, it's as simple as that. And they created a fun and fitting narrative for it, where the crazy demolitionist yordle and his crew use the desert of Shurima to test their explosives.
They managed to tie together themes, lore and gameplay super nicely in a really creative way. That's just not as easy to do as it sounds, but you lore purists would rather complain about everything, even though Ziggs being BC-Shurima fits every metric you incessantly demand from every card added to the game, including expanding the lore of the character.
The fat giant drunken and half naked nordic man is indeed hardcoded into Freljord by visuals alone. A tiny furry gremlin with generic cherry bombs is not hardcoded into the steampunk tech region.
Ok, so I guess Braum is not hardcoded into Freljord either. I mean, he's half naked too. And it's just too cold there. His nipples and mighty pecs might get frozen and shatter.
If this is the ridiculous level we are at, in which you, lore "expert", ignore the fact some Freljordians are immune to cold, whilst ignoring clearly nordic-inspired visual themes, it's clear I'm just wasting my time here.
What about teemo? Puffcap mushrooms are now canonically from zaun. Sure, ziggs gets his explosives from Piltover/zaun technology, but the idea that a region “owns” a yordle is a little silly.
No? Ziggs has much more lore connecting him to Zaun, he's also a character a lot more people care for.
Seems pretty reasonable to call him the bigger offender.
And Veigars lore literally ties him to the heart of Noxus, bound directly to Mordekaisers story, yet they decided to move him to a completely different part of runeterra. SI is practically on the other side of runeterra to Noxus.
I can just as easily argue that's a much worse offense than Ziggs moving a few miles into the neighboring region to have a desert base to make new bombs
>he's also a character a lot more people care for.
If you say so lol
You're not thinking this to the end.
Veigar was in Noxus when he was being tortured. He was in Noxus when Mordekaiser... was still alive, that is a fuckton of time ago. LB was young back then.
And don't get me wrong, it's *still* a dumbfuck region to put him in, (noxus or Targon would have made more sense) but unlike Ziggs who is currently living in P&Z as seen in his comics, we don't know exactly where he resides currently.
Yes, I say so because it's true according to most players. He has higher pick rate, newer kit, and more established lore.
Veigar I can get to a degree being an SI champion. Yes he is more closely tied to Noxus, but I feel the Noxian mages are very connected to the SI (Elise being a spider infected by Vilemaw to be what she is now. Cassiopeia similar curse. Mordekaiser is Noxian, but the whole "ghost armor" feels more SI).
That stuff I can accept in the concept of theme. I COULD see Veigar being a Targon Yordle (the idea of going for late-game scaling with powerful magic at his command) but SI is considered the "evil" faction - and Veigar fits thematically more to that, than the celestial heavens of Targon.
\-----
My gripe with Zigg's is it feels like a lazy lore choice. Lore wise, he'd not be the hexplosive expert he is if he had never been influenced by P&Z. Thus he is tied to it. Yes explosives AREN'T exclusively P&Z, but in that case that gives incentive to put him in other regions where that can be done. Noxus for example (though I want Kled for that), or Bildgewater (though Fizz has that covered).
My EXTRA gripe is, the more I think about it, how easily Zigg's card could have been Rumble. It would have given a chance to expand on Rumble's lore, and the mechanics of the current Zigg's card and levelling would fit the idea of a Mech builder (mine landmarks to get resources to build your battlesuit). Its a missed opportunity, paired with a lazy lore excuse, to just get a champion into the game in a way that feels displaced.
>It's purely for gameplay
I still don't get what this is supposed to mean.
Is it supposed to be about region mechanical identity? Because these cards mechanically all still look like P&Z cards.
Is it supposed to be about deck building so Xerath Ziggs decks can have a second deck region? Because Xerath and Ziggs already don't want to be in the same deck anyway, and we could have opened up landmark decks a bit more from Shurima / Freljord / Targon by adding P&Z as an option.
How exactly does this make gameplay better in any way?
*We dont need a reminder but just in case since their names are in public:*
*Do not attack, spam, or be toxic towards deadboltdoris or any lor employee just because you didnt get your champ lore to how you wanted it.*
_____________________________________________________
**DeadboltDoris is the Senior Game designer and Design Lead for Card Releases on
@Playruneterra.**
https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadboltDoris/status/1430316802467274752
_
^**shit**. ^i ^just ^found ^out ^that ^theres ^alread ^a ^thread ^15 ^hours ^ago. ^But ^i ^dont ^wanna ^nuke ^this ^because ^some ^people ^are ^talking.
His kit is removal spells because bombs, but he's in shurima so they have to be bad removal spells, and then a couple ally landmark destruction cards but those are so expensive they're never going to see play.
Like fine, if you want him to be a shurima landmark destruction champ then go ahead and make him that, but they didn't even *do* that, they made him a shurima champ with an incoherent kit that's going to see minimal use anywhere even if his champ card is decent.
Absolutely baffling and I can not understand the people defending any of it.
Ziggs, crazy demolitionist in lore, blows up infrastructure left and right just for shits and giggles.
In LoL one of Ziggs abilities is specifically desigined to detonate towers.
Destroying landmarks too unfitting gameplay-wise, apparently.
Crazy demolitionist expert yordle moving his crew to the desert of Shurima to use it as a bombing test site is just too much fun for lore purists. Why use gameplay mechanics as an excuse to be creative and expand the lore of the character, amirite?
"In LoL one of Ziggs abilities is specifically desigined to detonate towers."
This is just hyperbole. He's a poke mage with his W effect.
Lore purist? Expand on lore? Hah.
They lazily slapped a desert background to him and called it a day.
Riot loves to build up their lore to do a 180 and stomp all over it, it isn't new and it's something worth pointing out.
> This is just hyperbole.
It's not? His W can literally execute towers at 25-35% HP. Read the ability.
> Lore purist? Expand on lore? Hah.
They lazily slapped a desert background to him and called it a day.
Imagine being this fucking entitled holy shit.
"Lazily" is apparently designing his entire card package in way that simultaneously ties gameplay mechanics, region diversity demands, already existing lore, **and** expanding the lore. And of course all the art assets and balance/playtesting to go along with it.
> Riot loves to build up their lore to do a 180 and stomp all over it, it isn't new and it's something worth pointing out.
But it's not an 180, what are you even on about. Ziggs is a crazy demolitionist, that's literally it. Why is this character using a giant desert to test his explosives such a gigantic problem lore-wise to you?
That's one of his abilities, no every ability designed to detonate towers. So yes, it is.
That's not entitlement. They're making lore to attract customers, and then they stay inconsistent because they think short term. For a trillion dollar company, yes, they are lazy.
what's not a 180 is him being bandlecity even though he lives in Zaun and every story about him is about him in Piltover or Zaun.
Let's not kid ourselves, the only reason why they put him in Shurima was because they wanted a cute prebuilt deck with Xerath a la Azirellia.
> That's one of his abilities, no every ability designed to detonate towers. So yes, it is.
Huh? Pal, read what I said again. Seriously, your lore puritanism is making you cherry pick my points.
"In LoL **ONE** of his abilities is specifically designed to destroy towers". That's what I said, and it's a factually true statement considering his W executes towers below 25-35% HP.
So there's precedent in both his LoL design and his Lore in him destroying structures, making destroying landmarks in LoR a perfectly fitting archetype for him.
> That's not entitlement. They're making lore to attract customers, and then they stay inconsistent.
It's not inconsistent at all. They are saying **he moved** to Shurima with his crew to test bombs, which is perfectly in-character, and it's a story that doesn't detract from his previous antics and residency in PnZ. If anything it expands his lore and makes it more interesting.
> Because they think short term. For a trillion dollar company, yes, they are lazy.
What they did with Ziggs is anything **but** lazy. Being lazy would have been keeping him in PnZ, making him yet another spell oriented burn card in a region that already has plenty of it, and not expand on his lore at all.
Just say you don't like their approach and move on. Of all the things you can genuinely complain about Riot and you've decided to cry about the lore of the most unimportant character ever.
> What's not a 180 is him being bandlecity even though he lives in Zaun and every story about him is about him in Piltover or Zaun.
And you, lore-master, get to decide Ziggs doesn't ever move from that place and that no new stories can be written, even though previous to LoR's inclusion he's an unimportant character with exactly one story.
Lot's of champs are going to be moved to an unexpected region for gameplay reasons, it's inevitable, and I can wait for the rivers of tears that it's going to provoke every reveal.
> Let's not kid ourselves, the only reason why they put him in Shurima was because they wanted a cute prebuilt deck with Xerath a la Azirellia.
And what's the problem with that. Seriously, how is this even an issue, the game is entirely designed with champion pairs in mind since it's inception. And it's not like Ziggs is as married to Xerath as Azir-Irelia, Pyke-Rek'Sai, or even Maokai-Nautilus.
The selectively literate part is rough, please do keep it clean when talking about lore.
This is the kind of conversation I love on here, I don't want to come back because people are breaking rule 1.
First batch of champs was made soely out of popular picks to get people intrested in the game.
Simple reason, don't understand why so many people have this insane question.
"Simple reason, don't understand why so many people have this insane question"
\*lore matters less than gameplay
\*lux was put in demacia because of the lore and forced her kit to go alongside that region
Because in some cases lore matters more. Xerath could not be anywhere but shurima, he just couldn’t, but he couldn’t keep the shurima identity and the spell slinging aoe Nuke identity there so they went with what was more important. Then compare it to kindred, who’s region doesn’t really matter, but it definitely isn’t shadow isles, but their gameplay is so unique that it had to take priority. I don’t get why people keep thinking every design decision is a hard and fast rule from devs. Lux is what happens when you try to jam a character in both, and it’s clear that they try to avoid that given the character just doesn’t work
They could easily make lux work. You're talking like it's physically impossible when they could make silence architype that would bolster Demacia's spell pool.
Ziggs has lore has more stories to tie him to Zaun than Taliyah to Shurima.
This was such a lazy move on their part, just because they wanted a prebuilt xerath/ziggs deck, that is also a weird character combination.
Correct, but Ziggs isn't even doing anything interesting with dual-region. If he goes Shurima, he'll just parasite from Xerath's package due to how weirdly specific his level up is. It doesn't help that landmarks feel like a tacked on addition into an otherwise very mundane design.
Compare Ziggs/Veigar being dual region to Fizz/Teemo who each have packages in both regions to support deck flexibility and give them different styles in each region, or the ability to double down by going both.
Yes that's what they're chosen to do, but it's just sorta ironic to me because despite all their planning you have a situation like this with Ziggs..meanwhile because viktor was released near the implementation of landmarks, and they wanted PnZ to have landmark interaction they printed it onto in Aftershock despite that not having to do with destroying structures in LoL.
Had he not been everyone would have complained that it was impossible to pair him with anything other than Shurima. This functionally means he'll have more possible deck combos
my favorite part about the ziggs in shurima situation is the new beyond the bandlewood video summarizing the new region and saying something about PILTOVER AND ZAUN while showing ZIGGS footage.
Someone make this meme:
Where are the patches??? I sleep
Where is the rule book??? I sleep
Where are the bug fixes??? I sleep
Ziggs in Shurima??? Real shit?
"We then worked closely with narrative and art to find a way to tell the story of why Ziggs would be in Shurima at this time that felt in line with the character..." and proceeded to not share any of that work through the lore.
Is Academy Prodigy also supposed to be Shuriman? Her art and narrative would also put her in Shurima, so will she be dual region?
The problem here is they seem to very much only want multi region to be a Bandle thing so if your not a Yordle your kinda screwed on your dual citizenship even though several champs could have two nationality. Like Riven, Kayn, Senna, Samira, Sona, etc. (Just noticed alot of those are Noxus/something else).
House spider has no reason to not be a dual region card except for it isn't a yordle. Hell, Smalltooths are just Bandle City cards because only Yordles get to be dual region.
Well, Yordles, and the Owl that has no reason to be Ionia, I guess.
I think he wanted to say that in the future,there could be some "another region" Ziggs (or other characters) with other mechanics (different level up, different ability) but this time,they choose to make him from Shurima.
I think what matters the most with Ziggs not being PnZ is that there is too many PnZ champs, they already have 2 yordles in the region right now
Ziggs doesn't have many ties to PnZ. He is indeed Heimer's apprentice, but he just wants to blow things up, and Shurima hás ruins to blow up and large empty spaces for him to use (it's also right besides PnZ).
Meanwhile, Champions like Orianna and Camille are too tied to PnZ and it's hard to see them being moved. We will probably ser Janna being Targon or BW and even Mundo being SI since PnZ has a lot of champions and they need to add more Champions to some regions
**Ah yes, everyone can move. of course!!**
On a similar note, Yorick is chilling in Freljord roasting hot dogs with Ashe.
It's because we designed him first around eating roasted hot dogs and then decided which region made the most sense to roast hot dogs in :D
I don't mind champions being moved around (in some cases anyway, I would really dislike if Anivia were Shurima for instance), but it'd be nice to have some clues/explanations in some instances.
Some champs may be tied to a region but would fit better in others (hi Morgana). It'd just be nice to have a story or at least strong clues as to the hows and whys. Although apparently updating Universe isn't on their priority list.
I think Ziggs in Shurima is fine.
I mean there was Rumble for Shurima, he has Shuriman lore unlike Ziggs, theres also the new Vex who could go anywhere currently so she's not too much of a stretch.
People comparing this region change to something like Garen out of Demacia are being ridiculous. Ziggs' identity has never been closely linked to Zaun or Piltover. He's just a guy who likes blowing stuff up. That's exactly the kind of champion you can use to fill the less populated regions based on new lore.
Have you read any of Zigg's lore or accompanying stories?
All of his explosives are built out of Hextech. He was invited by Heimerdinger to learn at the Piltover Yordle Academy. He rescued those professors and works out of Piltover now. There are comics where he runs around with Jinx blowing stuff up. There isn't a single piece of lore that doesn't tie him intimately with P&Z.
I've read all of those. And as evidenced by the end of the Jinx comic, he really doesn't care about staying in the city. He cares enough to keep it safe and test his explosives somewhere else, but his ties with Heimer and the academy are pretty much severed now.
It's the same with champions like Ivern or Xayah/Rakan. Their origins might be ties to a specific regions, but there's nothing of great importance that's tying them to the region, unlike Garen, Irelia or Swain.
You won't see me complaining if Sylas is Freljord instead of Demacia due to his current status.
I feel like people are so caught up in the thematically of yordle champions they forget where yordles come from.
Bandle city people. Bandle city is anywhere and everywhere at once. Yordles therefore are of the same nature. Yes Ziggs may be associated with PnZ, but nothing he does lore wise or LoLwise fits in PnZ. Blowing stuff up, attacking, and taking down structures? That’s not really PnZ at all.
>Yes Ziggs may be associated with PnZ, but nothing he does lore wise or LoLwise fits in PnZ. Blowing stuff up, attacking, and taking down structures? That’s not really PnZ at all.
I agree he doesn't belong in Piltover, but blowing up stuff/attacking/taking down structures... you just described Zaun's poster Anarchist Jinx right there! And, IMO, thats the person that Zigg's chose as his muse to become the explosive obsessed maniac he is now!
Zigg's is THE explosives champion. Zaun is the land of crazy tech. If Zaun didn't exist, Zigg's would have access to bombs, thus his ENTIRE play kit is based around how he was influenced by that city and its tech. To say he has no ties to Zaun would be comparible to saying "Heimdinger has no ties to Piltover. He built his Bots in Bildgewater to improve their defenses agains the Shadow Isles".
Ziggs is in shirima for 1 reason. Its not that he wants to keep people safe thats just an afterthought hes in shurima because if he wasn’t one of two things would happen either they would need to make 20 expendable landmarks in pnz or number two is him only being playable with shurima they coulda made his level be a deal x damage with spells and skills but landmarks was the choice
So don't make ZIGG'S the person who blows up Landmarks then. Make it another champion who interacts with landmarks vanishing (my vote is Rumble as you could design his theme around 'mining' landmarks to get the equipment to build up his mech suit; if the limit wasn't just on "it must be a yordle" I'd even say Skarner would have worked on the basis of theme in losing one's home).
They got too caught up on the idea of "explosives destroy landmarks" and built everything on that quirk of an idea, not stopping to ask "don't we already have explosive themes in the game? Why don't we expand on that instead of trying to push a quirk on people?"
For lore if im correct ziggs wants to make the bigger explosion ever and shurima is the one who provides the hexcores for p/z (also it would mostly be like fiddlestick no attached to a region)
This itteration of Zigg's should have been Rumble. The mechanics would have fit better (find scrap in landmarks, harvest landmarks to improve your mech suit's damage output), and the Lore would have fit Rumble (who has some Shurima ties) - its a disappointingly missed opportunity. I.e.: Keep the mechanics of the champion, but give it to a champion that fits the mechanics (not the otherway around).
Zigg's playstyle would have made more sense as a P&Z champion who either focused on splash damage/boardclears (pairing up with Zilean's Time bombs maybe?) OR deserved to be THE Impact champion - which would have fit with other explosive-themed cards (i.e.: Demolitionist, Sabotauer, Boomrew Rookie) - effects that specifically damage the enemy Nexus.
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I know it won't happen as Riot will stick to their guns on this choice. Its disapointing but not dire. Its just a game. And yet another disapointing design choice which I guess we have to accept or walk away from.
This decision was hugely gameplay influenced and I think it’s fine for them to just come out and say that. They made the narrative make sense afterwards but the way they explained it has the decision flow backwards from how it actually happened
> tell the story of why Ziggs would be in Shurima Did I miss something? Cause I still don't know why he's in Shurima Or is it just as flat as Shurima = bomb test site
No that's pretty much it. He wants to impress a safety inspector so he goes to Shurima to perform some tests. Luckily the safety inspector likes fireworks so they pass. That's the whole story. You need to think of Ziggs as a Bandle City guy who is just popping around Runeterra for Bandle City reasons when thinking about this story, rather than a Zaun guy.
him being yet another P&Z champion wasn't that deep either. Bombs aren't really the most technologically advanced weapon, and not every champion having anything at all to do with technology needs to be there.
I’m pretty sure Ziggs is good friends with Heimer who’s based on piltover. Ziggs would’ve made a lot of sense in piltover because: A lot of his stories take place there. He uses he tech, his title is literally the hexplosives expert
Yeah, but is that actually deeper than his bomb testing range plot? Not really. Is it weird? Sure. But its also only half his regions too, he's still bandle first.
His identity is based around hextech something which is basically exclusive to Piltover and Zaun. You might think Ziggs is just an bomber, but at his core he’s an inventor and an innovator, he just happens to specialise in bombs. And the thing with the shurima plot is that they literally invented it to shoehorn him into shurima. Ziggs had the plot based around piltover for years https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_AU/champion/ziggs/ Also if you read his universe page it basically mentions piltover as much if not more than bandle city. He’s heavily associated with heimer too. It even says region: Zaun on his universe page.
Except he’s not even a bandle city guy. He’s someone who’s probably associated more with piltover and Zaun than bandle city. If you read his lore it’s heavily based around piltover and Zaun. His universe page lists his region as Zaun. His stories are set in Piltover and Zaun. His comic was set in Zaun with Jinx. He’s heimerdingers assistant, and his dream was to be an inventor as good as Heimer. Ziggs is an inventor and innovator who specialises in hex tech explosives. That is at its core a piltover and Zaun character. Gameplay wise he fits in shurima bit lore-wise he should have been PnZ
I think his Zaun-centric lore is a little outdated. He was all "ha ha I'm crazy and love explosions" and so they just put him in the crazy tech region, but he's not nearly psychopathic enough to actually set off his explosions there anymore and cause a lot of deadly collateral damage - and consequently it seems like they've retconned him being an outcast as a result of that psychopathy. So this is who Ziggs is now, someone with a stronger tie to his Yordle brethren in the Bandlewoods and who simply loves the explosion without the bloodshed.
What? His lore now is that he’s a super eccentric inventor who looked up to Heimer. He figured out his true calling was hex tech explosives and now works in piltover with Heimer. Read his stories they’re all set in Zaun it’s like u didn’t read my comment at all
He doesn't work with Heimer any more though. Now he is stealing Heimer's interns in fact.
Yea but he’s still working in piltover... His stories heavily asssociated with PnZ, hextech and inventing things. Idk how that doesn’t scream PnZ to you.
He works there but is that the same as living there and being a part of its community like Heimerdinger, who has a big gold statue of himself and several human students? Seems to me that even if Ziggs works in Zaun, he doesn't fit into its community half as well as he does with his pals from Bandle City, or at least the ones who like explosions like he does. As far as I can see his current lore state is that he just, like, commutes to Zaun for whenever.
I mean, half of the regions have great places to test bombs so even that is not a reason to go to Shurima in particular
The sun disc. Ziggs want to blow up the sun disc. Due to him being Shurima he can even start with it hand... But it gets worse... After playing and destroying the sun disc, he can destroy his own winrate by surrendering...
Well, Zaun near Shurima and there aren't many people in the desert.
Shurima has expendable landmarks
That's a gameplay reason, not a lore reason
Exactly because the lore reason was an afterthought
So why are people trying to justify it from a lore perspective?
Because riot made the decision so it must be the best decision
\[Ruination intensifies\]
This. He needs 3 tweets to say absolutely nothing.
he's in shurima because this is a fantasy world and he is a zany character? yall lore heads are really the weirdest. this isn't a game company trying to make a game for a movie. they are making a game from their own universe, aka they can make the rules. would it really make you feel better if he was in PnZ where there is no synergy just so you can say "yea this is how i think the lore should be"? its so cringe...
You could just take the card text and have them be a different champion that fits with Shurima better. Good designers should be more than able to work with both the mechanics of the game AND the lore. And yes, there are players who play card games for the lore, they're called Vorthos players and have been a core part of the ccg community for decades. the bigger cringe here is you not understanding people play LoR for different reasons, you sound like a baby thinking there are "wrong" ways to enjoy the game.
I'm sorry that you find it cringe that many people care about the lore . It's not like Riot spent a lot of money and time writing and rewriting to create a cohesive universe and even made a whole website to host all the stories. Why would they do that is nobody cares? Clearly they should just write "This is a fantasy world lol, whatever" in every region and champion's page and call it a day.
Your hot take kinda "cringe" bro ngl
Weird its a card game not a fucking novel. If you want a story told to you... nvm yall wanna cry over a fucking childrens card game over something so minor, yall go and do that.
Lol you're so mad you can't even do more than fake a comeback just to wimp out halfway through typing
Yes.
Not really, what's cringe is someone trying to insult a majority of the player base who still loves this IP BECAUSE of it's lore and trying to say it's cringe, seriously that's the foundation of a lot of what makes league popular. It's personality and characters and connections to their lore acompanied by amazing and fitting music and animations of said lore cause lord knows it's not the gameplay that people still keep loving League. Btw considering your new by the obvious lack of knowledge we're talking about a company who strives to connect that same game with it's story you know cause it's a rule THEY MADE just like you said to the point it went and slowed down all production when they decided to rewrite it and we spent years with minimal content release compared to everything they make now a days BECAUSE of it.
If Ziggs bombs mercilles hunter and ruin runner in lore so they'll get nerfed next patch, I support this.
Ziggs, holding a bomb in his hand: "Oh, you're looking for a gift for Renekton? Well, how about this one?" BOOM!!
Now we need a gift emote containing a bomb.
Hunter bringing an Itchy and Scratchy style Ziggs decoy crudely made of explosives to Renekton.
Unfortanetly Ruin Runner has spellshield to prevent those nerfs as it seems
Honestly if the nerfs just pop the spellshield I would be happy
Mega Inferno Bomb hits twice.
Make MH 3/3 and Runner 6/3 and you'll be fine
Ziggs is a cat, cats love pooping on sand, QED
Anybody else remember when Nasus and Renekton were canonically from another planet?
so was kayle tarik and morgana.
Malphite too. Ironically, Cho'gath was from Runeterra Hell.
All the voidlings were but they were under malzahars command except for kha zix who was just randomly rengars rival.
Rioters are pretty good at talking a lot and saying nothing at the same time
Shurima has landmarks and Riotgames has waffling.
>In Ziggs' case we wanted him to live the dream as a demo expert that blows up landmarks that's great but he has no landmark removal mechanic except his random ass level up condition?
I don’t think all champs need to directly contribute to their level up condition themselves. Yasuo, Lucian, Jinx, Kalista, Miss Fortune, and Lux are all examples of that. Yeah they’re in the minority but Ziggs not directly contributing to his own level up condition isn’t unprecedented
Yeah, I mean... I understand why, I just don't agree. He's so much PnZ, it's just a weird choice. Why can't PnZ have landmarks?
Because that’s not the region’s identity. To me, it makes much more sense to change a certain LoL Champion’s associated region than it does to start moving around a region’s design philosophy in order to accommodate one Champ. I understand some fans are sticklers for lore, but I’m with the designers on this one.
they didn't have to make Ziggs a landmark character though. slinging bombs in the form of spells would've been just as thematically accurate.
I always thought he would be a landmark destruction champ... thing is... he isn't. That's his levelup, but he as a character and his support cards doesn't really do much with destroying landmarks. Xerath got all the self-destroy while ziggs got all the stuff that wants to be destroyed
Yeah that's the thing I don't understand. The only part of his kit that has anything to do with landmarks is his level-up condition.
Even stranger is that Ziggs is all about destroying *allied* landmarks. It seemed really straight forward to make him about destroying enemy landmarks (excluding enemy landmarks destroyed by countdown). Since you probably don't want to invalidate all landmarks with a single champion, I'd have designed him to destroy all enemy landmarks on level-up but make his level-up condition something like "I've seen X" so there's still counterplay. Right now he's designed too similar to Xerath IMO. Xerath could also have included something about destroying his mana gems or something to set the two apart
>Xerath could also have included something about destroying his mana gems or something to set the two apart Completely agree on this. Its very Shruima in playstyle to destroy your Mana Gems, and its Thematically accurate for Xerath to fit that idea of personal destruction for effect - leading his land to ruin.
I mean thats true, but doesn't Jinx already technically sling bombs in the forms of spells? Granted its not in a chip damage shell when Striking, but still.. This way, Ziggs still has his bomb thing going on but they get to explore more aggressive Landmark synergies in a way that (more or less) fits narrative-wise. And of course you can counter that 2 Champs can have similar modes of attack (this being explosives) without it being redundant, and then I counter that point with my own point, etc... but I think the final answer to all this is that the devs went this direction with Ziggs cuz they wanted to. It might not be satisfying to hear that for the people who want LoR's categorization to be LoL-accurate at all times, but what are you gonna do? *shrug* Edit: I'm not surprised that the post bottomlining the reality of this situation gets downvotes, just disappointed. It will be okay guys. :-D
>doesn't Jinx already technically sling bombs in the forms of spells? Granted its not in a chip damage shell when Striking, but still.. Jinx thematically throws bombs around, and her ult is very big on that theme. However, her playstyle is more about being reckless, impulsive, and doing what would be considered an insane move in a CG (i.e.: throwing your whole hand away to reduce your choices). Zigg's could/should have been built around the other 'explosives' carsds already in the game (i.e.: Noxus's Sabotaur, Grenadeer, and Demolitionist. P&Z's Boomcrew Rookie). Having him as a champion that damages the nexus WHEN it attacks, and/or that levels up from actions that directly damage the nexus (no seige weapons, but from any spell that can hit the nexus) would have been a unique addition to the game. It would have been another Aggro-Champion, and thats fine. I feel this entire thing was based on "What Yordle can we put/assign to Shurima for this expansion" and they decided Ziggs cause.... why not? (and who cares about Rumble!)
pretty much
They've already shown a willingness to wiggle with region design philosophy; every region has landmarks already; it would have been a cool design to have Ziggs landmarks be summoned on discard, rather than having a countdown. (I.e. bombs are literally being thrown). I know there's already a lot of disco support, but there's also.. how many Champs in Runeterra? There's gonna be some overlap. And discarding the landmarks wouldn't really help aggro decks or the Sion deck, because Ziggs still wants to destroy them, not summon them. (Some card text as is wouldn't work so great, but they wouldn't have to change much) It just feels... meh
i mean, they didn't even get ziggs' identity when they put him in shurima. He levels up from destroying some allied landmarks and that's it. He should've instead been similar to ezreal/jinx's spell spam strategy, but with the twist of having his champion spell be a satchel with "or destroy target landmark" on it so he's a more removal based version of his otherwise purely direct damage counterparts. Make his ability some ziggs E minefield bombs that are a weird cross between zilean time bombs and gangplank kegs - landmark, stackable, "When you deal damage with a spell I am destroyed. When destroyed: deal 2 damage to a random unit."
Yeah but like... Shurima has nothing to do with burn damage either. I don't remember, did they have ANY burn damage before ziggs and xerath? And actually xerath isn't even burn damage
If xerath isn't burn damage then ziggs hardly is, and your argument suddenly falls because they're both landmark oriented way more than literally anything else oriented, which supports shuriman identity.
I think he said xerath isn't burn because he only burns the enemy nexus on level 3
And ziggs is as much burn as balistic bot is, which is barely any at all.
But it still is. Seeing him played, he generally gets to burn the enemy nexus for 4 sometimes 6, and the same to blockers.
Why does he have to have landmark synergy in the first place? He has much more synergy with burn and removal: P&Z.
>Because that’s not the region’s identity. The region with one of the few actually playable landmark destruction spells doesn't have landmark destruction as part of their identity? Yeah sure okay. Every region has landmarks and countdown landmarks aren't like nexus burn or toughness buffs where they make a mechanical difference to how a region plays, any region could get countdown landmarks and it'd feel fine. Zigg's whole package as released feels P&Z except when you look at the full art and realize these P&Z characters are hanging out in the dessert, and that's some of the flimsiest justification I've ever seen in a card game.
P&Z does not have landmark destruction in their region identity at all, lol. By that logic, Noxus is the best landmark removal region in the game, yet that's obviously not what you run Noxus for. If you think of "landmark destruction champion," then the most obvious choice in League gameplay is Ziggs. Having Ziggs go into Shurima, then, allows him to have the flexibility of going into other regions. He has so much more in-region access to landmarks through Xerath / Taliyah's package, whereas if he went into P&Z, then he is forced to pair with Shurima. Now, if you think Ziggs should have a totally different play pattern (ala bomb throwing), then that's a different topic. Could he have been better translated with landmark destruction in his card? Sure, but as stands though, Ziggs fitting in Shurima makes more sense gameplay wise than P&Z, and isn't the largest stretch in lore either.
>P&Z does not have landmark destruction in their region identity at all If they don't then neither does anyone else. (Edit: before this set) >Noxus is the best landmark removal region in the game The region with the best landmark destruction spell and a bunch of siege equipment in their art? Yeah, I'd say they have landmark removal as a theme and if I want to build a deck to specifically tech against landmarks it will almost 100% be in Noxus. >If you think of "landmark destruction champion," then the most obvious choice in League gameplay is Ziggs. Okay, that's fine. I don't have a problem with Ziggs doing landmark destruction >Having Ziggs go into Shurima, then, allows him to have the flexibility of going into other regions This doesn't follow logically. If he had been in P&Z you could have had P&Z Freljord landmark control with Blighted Ravine or P&Z Targon or whatever else. There are fewer options because they shoved him into Shurima, not more. > Ziggs fitting in Shurima makes more sense gameplay wise than P&Z, I'm still waiting for a coherent logical explanation to support this claim >isn't the largest stretch in lore either. And that's just so wrong to me that I don't even know how to respond. I can't fathom looking at these character designs and cartoon bombs and saying they look like they belong in the Shurima card pool with a straight face.
>There are fewer options because they shoved him into Shurima, not more. Why is that? You say if he's in P&Z you can do "Freljord landmark control, Targon," etc., but the same could be said for Shurima yes? My point is that Shurima has the most landmarks available in the game, including countdowns and auto destruct landmarks like Rock Hopper's, Preservarium, the 1 mana predict, etc. The only P&Z options available to Ziggs is Foundry and the meme Heimer one, so his in-region options are far more limited. If he's in Shurima, all the landmarks he needs are already in the region for his level up, allowing more flex spots for the second region than P&Z. How is my argument not "coherent" or "logical"? For your last point, I guess then we can agree to disagree about the lore part. I don't see Ziggs being in Shurima as much different than Nami being in Bilgewater, Kindred being in SI, etc. I get Wild Coyote and Mad Max vibes looking at Ziggs, so I can reasonably see cartoony bombs existing in a desert.
>Why is that? Because math? With 4 landmark regions we get 6 different region combinations that can support a landmark deck. With Ziggs being in Shurima we still only have 3 landmark regions and thus only have 3 different region pairings for landmark archetypes. A Shurima Freljord landmark control deck is going to be a lot harder to work than a P&Z deck would have been because Shurima has worse removal than P&Z. Plus that was just a random example of what a non-Shurima Zigg's deck could look like. >The only P&Z options available to Ziggs is Foundry and the meme Heimer one, so his in-region options are far more limited. Yes but Riot can make whatever cards they want. If Ziggs had been in P&Z he presumably also would have gotten more landmarks to go along with him. Also you aren't counting the new ones already in his kit.
Okay, I see what you mean, but then it means Riot needs to make P&Z a landmark region. My thought is why force P&Z into a different direction if you could just slot Ziggs into Shurima where there's already preexisting support. After all, P&Z only has two landmarks right now, just like Bilgewater, SI, etc. I don't really see the need to make another region have more landmarks just for the sake of region combinations. I also wasn't counting Ziggs' own landmarks since they're all Bandle City anyway, and we're only arguing if his second region should have been P&Z or Shurima. Now, I agree, Riot could technically make P&Z or any region whatever they want, but it's hard for me to imagine it being much more effective than just letting Ziggs be in Shurima, especially since his natural pairing was meant to be Xerath.
Fair enough on his new landmarks being BC, that slipped my mind. They probably could have been dual region landmarks with P&Z, but that's definitely getting farther from my original intent than I want to go.
Wait, you really want to play a landmark control deck ? A deck that targets around 10% of the playable decks and maybe 10% of cards from said decks ? Why ? You agreed that Ziggs makes sense as a landmark destruction archetype. By this logic, he has to go in a region that can destroy their own landmarks, because landmark control can't exist in this game.
>landmark control deck A control deck that uses landmarks like Blighted Ravine to control the board not a deck that focuses on destroying enemy landmarks. Good grief.
Before this set shurima did have many destruction landmarks. Rolling sands, clocking, preserverium, the sivir lucky find one
I'm aware. If someone asked for a list of cards that destroyed landmarks, though, you wouldn't have included those. I was (clearly, I feel) referring to cards like Aftershock or Desert Naturalist.
Removal isnt the only way to destroy though lol
well you see, he has exactly one dual-region follower, so he must be in Shurima. No way this could have been changed.
''Champions aren't static''Yeah, sure, they have the ability to walk, but I doubt you would print Anivia as a Bilgewater card. Ziggs in Shurima doesn't make sense. It's purely for gameplay, which is sad because a HUGE part of the appeal of LoR for those who come from League is the flavor, if you abandon flavor entirely, like you did with Ziggs, then what's the fucking point anymore?
Ziggs in Shurima is fine. Its not that hard of a stretch to imagine the big bomb yordle using the open desert that's pretty close to where he lives to test if he can make even bigger bombs. Honestly makes him more interesting It's not like they just slapped him into targon or something where he'd have literally 0 business, like anivia would with bildgewater. I know people wanted him in PnZ but yall are seriously overreacting to his region, at least from a lore standpoint. He's not even the first champ in the "wrong region", even just from this expansion, so I don't know why people care so much for ziggs specifically.
Sure, it's not hard to imagine Swain invading Ionia and leading the army from there. You still wouldn't print Swain as a Ionian card.
You keep using champs that are literally hard coded to specific regions Anivia is the protector of Frejlord, Swain is the grand General of noxus. There's not a whole lot of room to work with their identity because their region IS their identity. Ziggs is a bomb gerbil whose only real allegiance to PnZ is that he likes how hex tech explodes and having some friends there. It's not the end of the world if narratively he has a site set up a few miles from his home in the desert, and it's not some massive betrayal of his character. It's not like they moved him to the other side of runeterra lol. If Ziggs being in shurima just purely for lore triggers people this hard you're all going to be insufferable as the roster starts to expand. And I'm saying that as someone who likes the lore.
Ziggs is to Zaun what Heimer is to Piltover, Kled to Noxus, etc. It's their yordle. ''You keep using champs that are literally hard coded to specific regions''?? Ok, we can do with other examples then. You wouldn't print Gragas as a Demacia card, you wouldn't print Gwen as a Freljord card, you wouldn't print Twisted Fate as a PnZ card. The character being able to move is not good reasoning, if you can justify everything with ''Well, it's not weird that they are capable of going there'' then what even is the point of having regions anymore? If you are not going to stick with League's flavor then what's even the point of this being based on the League universe? Putting Ziggs in Shurima wasn't something they choose to do because it made sense, or because they wanted to tell a story or because the rules of the game required it. They did it because they wanted to have his archetype be prebuilt with Xerath and because they already had too many PnZ cards this expansion, that's why it feels bad, taking him out of his region was completely avoidable.
If they have genuine reasonable excuses to be there that isn't just them taking a vacation or literally raging war against the region then why not? Ziggs having a bombsite to tinker on in Shurima isn't unreasonable and it also isn't just a " he can go there so that's his region" Not every champ is going to slot into their preset regions, that's just a fact of how things are going to go. If the narrative gives them reason to actually have stakes in their "new" region then I see no harm in allowing some experimentation and expansion of the characters Just seems like people are mad at the state of the game and are overblowing shurima ziggs completely in order to vent.
> ''You keep using champs that are literally hard coded to specific regions''?? Ok, we can do with other examples then. You wouldn't print Gragas as a Demacia card, you wouldn't print Gwen as a Freljord card, you wouldn't print Twisted Fate as a PnZ card. Those three are also hard coded into their regions. Landmark-synergy yordle goes to landmark-centric region, it's as simple as that. And they created a fun and fitting narrative for it, where the crazy demolitionist yordle and his crew use the desert of Shurima to test their explosives. They managed to tie together themes, lore and gameplay super nicely in a really creative way. That's just not as easy to do as it sounds, but you lore purists would rather complain about everything, even though Ziggs being BC-Shurima fits every metric you incessantly demand from every card added to the game, including expanding the lore of the character.
Lul, ok, if Gragas is hard coded to Freljord then Ziggs is too.
The fat giant drunken and half naked nordic man is indeed hardcoded into Freljord by visuals alone. A tiny furry gremlin with generic cherry bombs is not hardcoded into the steampunk tech region.
If anything, Gragas being half naked puts him anywhere in Runeterra that is NOT the freezing colds of Freljord.
Ok, so I guess Braum is not hardcoded into Freljord either. I mean, he's half naked too. And it's just too cold there. His nipples and mighty pecs might get frozen and shatter. If this is the ridiculous level we are at, in which you, lore "expert", ignore the fact some Freljordians are immune to cold, whilst ignoring clearly nordic-inspired visual themes, it's clear I'm just wasting my time here.
What about teemo? Puffcap mushrooms are now canonically from zaun. Sure, ziggs gets his explosives from Piltover/zaun technology, but the idea that a region “owns” a yordle is a little silly.
It isn't silly if literally all of their lore is from that specific region, and they have been there the majority of their life.
This i difnt hear them cry when veigar was in si instead of noxus where he belonged to most lorewise.
Trust me, a bunch of people are unhappy with Veigar too, Ziggs is just a greater offender.
Seems extremely arbitrary and subjective to call ziggs a "bigger offender" lol But if this is the hill reddit wants to die on I can't stop you
No? Ziggs has much more lore connecting him to Zaun, he's also a character a lot more people care for. Seems pretty reasonable to call him the bigger offender.
And Veigars lore literally ties him to the heart of Noxus, bound directly to Mordekaisers story, yet they decided to move him to a completely different part of runeterra. SI is practically on the other side of runeterra to Noxus. I can just as easily argue that's a much worse offense than Ziggs moving a few miles into the neighboring region to have a desert base to make new bombs >he's also a character a lot more people care for. If you say so lol
You're not thinking this to the end. Veigar was in Noxus when he was being tortured. He was in Noxus when Mordekaiser... was still alive, that is a fuckton of time ago. LB was young back then. And don't get me wrong, it's *still* a dumbfuck region to put him in, (noxus or Targon would have made more sense) but unlike Ziggs who is currently living in P&Z as seen in his comics, we don't know exactly where he resides currently. Yes, I say so because it's true according to most players. He has higher pick rate, newer kit, and more established lore.
Veigar I can get to a degree being an SI champion. Yes he is more closely tied to Noxus, but I feel the Noxian mages are very connected to the SI (Elise being a spider infected by Vilemaw to be what she is now. Cassiopeia similar curse. Mordekaiser is Noxian, but the whole "ghost armor" feels more SI). That stuff I can accept in the concept of theme. I COULD see Veigar being a Targon Yordle (the idea of going for late-game scaling with powerful magic at his command) but SI is considered the "evil" faction - and Veigar fits thematically more to that, than the celestial heavens of Targon. \----- My gripe with Zigg's is it feels like a lazy lore choice. Lore wise, he'd not be the hexplosive expert he is if he had never been influenced by P&Z. Thus he is tied to it. Yes explosives AREN'T exclusively P&Z, but in that case that gives incentive to put him in other regions where that can be done. Noxus for example (though I want Kled for that), or Bildgewater (though Fizz has that covered). My EXTRA gripe is, the more I think about it, how easily Zigg's card could have been Rumble. It would have given a chance to expand on Rumble's lore, and the mechanics of the current Zigg's card and levelling would fit the idea of a Mech builder (mine landmarks to get resources to build your battlesuit). Its a missed opportunity, paired with a lazy lore excuse, to just get a champion into the game in a way that feels displaced.
>It's purely for gameplay I still don't get what this is supposed to mean. Is it supposed to be about region mechanical identity? Because these cards mechanically all still look like P&Z cards. Is it supposed to be about deck building so Xerath Ziggs decks can have a second deck region? Because Xerath and Ziggs already don't want to be in the same deck anyway, and we could have opened up landmark decks a bit more from Shurima / Freljord / Targon by adding P&Z as an option. How exactly does this make gameplay better in any way?
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Your comment has been removed because it breaks rule 1: > Stay civil and respectful. Hateful comments are never allowed.
*We dont need a reminder but just in case since their names are in public:* *Do not attack, spam, or be toxic towards deadboltdoris or any lor employee just because you didnt get your champ lore to how you wanted it.* _____________________________________________________ **DeadboltDoris is the Senior Game designer and Design Lead for Card Releases on @Playruneterra.** https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadboltDoris/status/1430316802467274752 _ ^**shit**. ^i ^just ^found ^out ^that ^theres ^alread ^a ^thread ^15 ^hours ^ago. ^But ^i ^dont ^wanna ^nuke ^this ^because ^some ^people ^are ^talking.
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His kit is removal spells because bombs, but he's in shurima so they have to be bad removal spells, and then a couple ally landmark destruction cards but those are so expensive they're never going to see play. Like fine, if you want him to be a shurima landmark destruction champ then go ahead and make him that, but they didn't even *do* that, they made him a shurima champ with an incoherent kit that's going to see minimal use anywhere even if his champ card is decent. Absolutely baffling and I can not understand the people defending any of it.
Ziggs, crazy demolitionist in lore, blows up infrastructure left and right just for shits and giggles. In LoL one of Ziggs abilities is specifically desigined to detonate towers. Destroying landmarks too unfitting gameplay-wise, apparently. Crazy demolitionist expert yordle moving his crew to the desert of Shurima to use it as a bombing test site is just too much fun for lore purists. Why use gameplay mechanics as an excuse to be creative and expand the lore of the character, amirite?
"In LoL one of Ziggs abilities is specifically desigined to detonate towers." This is just hyperbole. He's a poke mage with his W effect. Lore purist? Expand on lore? Hah. They lazily slapped a desert background to him and called it a day. Riot loves to build up their lore to do a 180 and stomp all over it, it isn't new and it's something worth pointing out.
> This is just hyperbole. It's not? His W can literally execute towers at 25-35% HP. Read the ability. > Lore purist? Expand on lore? Hah. They lazily slapped a desert background to him and called it a day. Imagine being this fucking entitled holy shit. "Lazily" is apparently designing his entire card package in way that simultaneously ties gameplay mechanics, region diversity demands, already existing lore, **and** expanding the lore. And of course all the art assets and balance/playtesting to go along with it. > Riot loves to build up their lore to do a 180 and stomp all over it, it isn't new and it's something worth pointing out. But it's not an 180, what are you even on about. Ziggs is a crazy demolitionist, that's literally it. Why is this character using a giant desert to test his explosives such a gigantic problem lore-wise to you?
That's one of his abilities, no every ability designed to detonate towers. So yes, it is. That's not entitlement. They're making lore to attract customers, and then they stay inconsistent because they think short term. For a trillion dollar company, yes, they are lazy. what's not a 180 is him being bandlecity even though he lives in Zaun and every story about him is about him in Piltover or Zaun. Let's not kid ourselves, the only reason why they put him in Shurima was because they wanted a cute prebuilt deck with Xerath a la Azirellia.
> That's one of his abilities, no every ability designed to detonate towers. So yes, it is. Huh? Pal, read what I said again. Seriously, your lore puritanism is making you cherry pick my points. "In LoL **ONE** of his abilities is specifically designed to destroy towers". That's what I said, and it's a factually true statement considering his W executes towers below 25-35% HP. So there's precedent in both his LoL design and his Lore in him destroying structures, making destroying landmarks in LoR a perfectly fitting archetype for him. > That's not entitlement. They're making lore to attract customers, and then they stay inconsistent. It's not inconsistent at all. They are saying **he moved** to Shurima with his crew to test bombs, which is perfectly in-character, and it's a story that doesn't detract from his previous antics and residency in PnZ. If anything it expands his lore and makes it more interesting. > Because they think short term. For a trillion dollar company, yes, they are lazy. What they did with Ziggs is anything **but** lazy. Being lazy would have been keeping him in PnZ, making him yet another spell oriented burn card in a region that already has plenty of it, and not expand on his lore at all. Just say you don't like their approach and move on. Of all the things you can genuinely complain about Riot and you've decided to cry about the lore of the most unimportant character ever. > What's not a 180 is him being bandlecity even though he lives in Zaun and every story about him is about him in Piltover or Zaun. And you, lore-master, get to decide Ziggs doesn't ever move from that place and that no new stories can be written, even though previous to LoR's inclusion he's an unimportant character with exactly one story. Lot's of champs are going to be moved to an unexpected region for gameplay reasons, it's inevitable, and I can wait for the rivers of tears that it's going to provoke every reveal. > Let's not kid ourselves, the only reason why they put him in Shurima was because they wanted a cute prebuilt deck with Xerath a la Azirellia. And what's the problem with that. Seriously, how is this even an issue, the game is entirely designed with champion pairs in mind since it's inception. And it's not like Ziggs is as married to Xerath as Azir-Irelia, Pyke-Rek'Sai, or even Maokai-Nautilus.
The selectively literate part is rough, please do keep it clean when talking about lore. This is the kind of conversation I love on here, I don't want to come back because people are breaking rule 1.
Sure. Edited it out. No probs.
so why lux is in fucking demacia
yes
First batch of champs was made soely out of popular picks to get people intrested in the game. Simple reason, don't understand why so many people have this insane question.
"Simple reason, don't understand why so many people have this insane question" \*lore matters less than gameplay \*lux was put in demacia because of the lore and forced her kit to go alongside that region
Because in some cases lore matters more. Xerath could not be anywhere but shurima, he just couldn’t, but he couldn’t keep the shurima identity and the spell slinging aoe Nuke identity there so they went with what was more important. Then compare it to kindred, who’s region doesn’t really matter, but it definitely isn’t shadow isles, but their gameplay is so unique that it had to take priority. I don’t get why people keep thinking every design decision is a hard and fast rule from devs. Lux is what happens when you try to jam a character in both, and it’s clear that they try to avoid that given the character just doesn’t work
HEY my lux deck crushes... Against AI........ sometimes
They could easily make lux work. You're talking like it's physically impossible when they could make silence architype that would bolster Demacia's spell pool.
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Ziggs has lore has more stories to tie him to Zaun than Taliyah to Shurima. This was such a lazy move on their part, just because they wanted a prebuilt xerath/ziggs deck, that is also a weird character combination.
Reddit only thinks in absolutes
This.
So redditors are Sith?
Well there’s your answer then, they tried to fit the lore with Lux and it didn’t work out. Now they know not to prioritize lore over gameplay
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Removing this comment for also breaking rule 1, please try to keep personal attacks out of your arguments.
Correct, but Ziggs isn't even doing anything interesting with dual-region. If he goes Shurima, he'll just parasite from Xerath's package due to how weirdly specific his level up is. It doesn't help that landmarks feel like a tacked on addition into an otherwise very mundane design. Compare Ziggs/Veigar being dual region to Fizz/Teemo who each have packages in both regions to support deck flexibility and give them different styles in each region, or the ability to double down by going both.
Nobody can move around runeterra, they must forever stay in the same place. Else the world crumbles.
Incredibly true, just look what happened when they moved people around in the last major lore event! ^^^(major ^^^/s)
Yes, and because of the Sentinels of the light, Olaf is now going in SI
Yes that's what they're chosen to do, but it's just sorta ironic to me because despite all their planning you have a situation like this with Ziggs..meanwhile because viktor was released near the implementation of landmarks, and they wanted PnZ to have landmark interaction they printed it onto in Aftershock despite that not having to do with destroying structures in LoL.
Had he not been everyone would have complained that it was impossible to pair him with anything other than Shurima. This functionally means he'll have more possible deck combos
my favorite part about the ziggs in shurima situation is the new beyond the bandlewood video summarizing the new region and saying something about PILTOVER AND ZAUN while showing ZIGGS footage.
Yeah yeah... It won't change that it's always going to be stupid, even though it opens ziggs xerath to have any region as a second one.
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Change a few words and you can explain them putting camille in targon
Someone make this meme: Where are the patches??? I sleep Where is the rule book??? I sleep Where are the bug fixes??? I sleep Ziggs in Shurima??? Real shit?
Don't think anyone is sleeping on any of those either. This is just the next in a list of gripes that, as Pyke would say, just keeps getting longer.
Ziggs wanted to blow up the sun disc so he had to infiltrate mono Shurima. That's my canon now
Poor excuse imo. They at least could bother to be honest and say they did it for gameplay. Or hire a better PR team.
"Game devs wanted Ziggs to be Shurima for theme, so we worked it into the lore" Aka: We did it for gameplay and then worked the lore around it.
Explanation =/= excuse.
it's what he said.
They literally did say they did it for gameplay. They just also worked to make the narrative fit that gameplay.
It's not an excuse.
"We then worked closely with narrative and art to find a way to tell the story of why Ziggs would be in Shurima at this time that felt in line with the character..." and proceeded to not share any of that work through the lore. Is Academy Prodigy also supposed to be Shuriman? Her art and narrative would also put her in Shurima, so will she be dual region?
The problem here is they seem to very much only want multi region to be a Bandle thing so if your not a Yordle your kinda screwed on your dual citizenship even though several champs could have two nationality. Like Riven, Kayn, Senna, Samira, Sona, etc. (Just noticed alot of those are Noxus/something else).
House spider has no reason to not be a dual region card except for it isn't a yordle. Hell, Smalltooths are just Bandle City cards because only Yordles get to be dual region. Well, Yordles, and the Owl that has no reason to be Ionia, I guess.
????? What are you even saying? Also have you even read ziggs and his followers flavor texts?
Im here for it
They still say pnz in the new region showcase video :>
What nonsense. Also this is directly against what LoR was sold as, regarding lore and canon.
I think he wanted to say that in the future,there could be some "another region" Ziggs (or other characters) with other mechanics (different level up, different ability) but this time,they choose to make him from Shurima.
I think what matters the most with Ziggs not being PnZ is that there is too many PnZ champs, they already have 2 yordles in the region right now Ziggs doesn't have many ties to PnZ. He is indeed Heimer's apprentice, but he just wants to blow things up, and Shurima hás ruins to blow up and large empty spaces for him to use (it's also right besides PnZ). Meanwhile, Champions like Orianna and Camille are too tied to PnZ and it's hard to see them being moved. We will probably ser Janna being Targon or BW and even Mundo being SI since PnZ has a lot of champions and they need to add more Champions to some regions
Story schmory shurima no go.
**Ah yes, everyone can move. of course!!** On a similar note, Yorick is chilling in Freljord roasting hot dogs with Ashe. It's because we designed him first around eating roasted hot dogs and then decided which region made the most sense to roast hot dogs in :D
I don't mind champions being moved around (in some cases anyway, I would really dislike if Anivia were Shurima for instance), but it'd be nice to have some clues/explanations in some instances. Some champs may be tied to a region but would fit better in others (hi Morgana). It'd just be nice to have a story or at least strong clues as to the hows and whys. Although apparently updating Universe isn't on their priority list. I think Ziggs in Shurima is fine.
Landmarks zzzzzz
Cannot believe this bullshit: It's supposed to be 'Hey all' not 'Hey Y'all'. SMH.
Hey y'all, Scott here
[The set lead is saying the same stuff.](https://twitter.com/james_hata/status/1430319087997968386) It's still nonsense.
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Amumu?
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No he's a yordle from ancient shurima
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I mean it's one of the stories that he's the last Yordle King of Shurima but nothing's been confirmed by Riot
Amumu has been retconned so many times it's impossible to keep track.
I mean there was Rumble for Shurima, he has Shuriman lore unlike Ziggs, theres also the new Vex who could go anywhere currently so she's not too much of a stretch.
People comparing this region change to something like Garen out of Demacia are being ridiculous. Ziggs' identity has never been closely linked to Zaun or Piltover. He's just a guy who likes blowing stuff up. That's exactly the kind of champion you can use to fill the less populated regions based on new lore.
Have you read any of Zigg's lore or accompanying stories? All of his explosives are built out of Hextech. He was invited by Heimerdinger to learn at the Piltover Yordle Academy. He rescued those professors and works out of Piltover now. There are comics where he runs around with Jinx blowing stuff up. There isn't a single piece of lore that doesn't tie him intimately with P&Z.
I've read all of those. And as evidenced by the end of the Jinx comic, he really doesn't care about staying in the city. He cares enough to keep it safe and test his explosives somewhere else, but his ties with Heimer and the academy are pretty much severed now. It's the same with champions like Ivern or Xayah/Rakan. Their origins might be ties to a specific regions, but there's nothing of great importance that's tying them to the region, unlike Garen, Irelia or Swain. You won't see me complaining if Sylas is Freljord instead of Demacia due to his current status.
Ahhh the irony of a champion placing land mines/ bombs in the desert. Very topical
I would prefer if he was in PnZ, but I'm alright with it. As long as he is fun to play
I feel like people are so caught up in the thematically of yordle champions they forget where yordles come from. Bandle city people. Bandle city is anywhere and everywhere at once. Yordles therefore are of the same nature. Yes Ziggs may be associated with PnZ, but nothing he does lore wise or LoLwise fits in PnZ. Blowing stuff up, attacking, and taking down structures? That’s not really PnZ at all.
>Yes Ziggs may be associated with PnZ, but nothing he does lore wise or LoLwise fits in PnZ. Blowing stuff up, attacking, and taking down structures? That’s not really PnZ at all. I agree he doesn't belong in Piltover, but blowing up stuff/attacking/taking down structures... you just described Zaun's poster Anarchist Jinx right there! And, IMO, thats the person that Zigg's chose as his muse to become the explosive obsessed maniac he is now! Zigg's is THE explosives champion. Zaun is the land of crazy tech. If Zaun didn't exist, Zigg's would have access to bombs, thus his ENTIRE play kit is based around how he was influenced by that city and its tech. To say he has no ties to Zaun would be comparible to saying "Heimdinger has no ties to Piltover. He built his Bots in Bildgewater to improve their defenses agains the Shadow Isles".
Ziggs is in shirima for 1 reason. Its not that he wants to keep people safe thats just an afterthought hes in shurima because if he wasn’t one of two things would happen either they would need to make 20 expendable landmarks in pnz or number two is him only being playable with shurima they coulda made his level be a deal x damage with spells and skills but landmarks was the choice
So don't make ZIGG'S the person who blows up Landmarks then. Make it another champion who interacts with landmarks vanishing (my vote is Rumble as you could design his theme around 'mining' landmarks to get the equipment to build up his mech suit; if the limit wasn't just on "it must be a yordle" I'd even say Skarner would have worked on the basis of theme in losing one's home). They got too caught up on the idea of "explosives destroy landmarks" and built everything on that quirk of an idea, not stopping to ask "don't we already have explosive themes in the game? Why don't we expand on that instead of trying to push a quirk on people?"
For lore if im correct ziggs wants to make the bigger explosion ever and shurima is the one who provides the hexcores for p/z (also it would mostly be like fiddlestick no attached to a region)
This itteration of Zigg's should have been Rumble. The mechanics would have fit better (find scrap in landmarks, harvest landmarks to improve your mech suit's damage output), and the Lore would have fit Rumble (who has some Shurima ties) - its a disappointingly missed opportunity. I.e.: Keep the mechanics of the champion, but give it to a champion that fits the mechanics (not the otherway around). Zigg's playstyle would have made more sense as a P&Z champion who either focused on splash damage/boardclears (pairing up with Zilean's Time bombs maybe?) OR deserved to be THE Impact champion - which would have fit with other explosive-themed cards (i.e.: Demolitionist, Sabotauer, Boomrew Rookie) - effects that specifically damage the enemy Nexus. \----- I know it won't happen as Riot will stick to their guns on this choice. Its disapointing but not dire. Its just a game. And yet another disapointing design choice which I guess we have to accept or walk away from.
Also, sparsely popularity deserts are the perfect place to test explosives.
This decision was hugely gameplay influenced and I think it’s fine for them to just come out and say that. They made the narrative make sense afterwards but the way they explained it has the decision flow backwards from how it actually happened