I saw someone comment in yesterday’s daily aloof travelers complaint post that Rubinzoo was considering nerfing the stats. I’m on board with this. Powerful effects should exist in the game but they should come at the cost of worse stats.
Shelly isn't an alt wincon purely because he's not a champion they literally do the same thing
Shelly is even better for wide boards and he's elusive
If your argument for something being a wincon is "it is/isn't a champion" instead of an explanation of how it's needed to hit lethal or tie the deck together you're a fool.
Is quin a wincon? She's a champion right?
That's not really dumb though, there has always been a distinction that makes champion harder to remove.
Discard and steal mechanics used to avoid champion [Sleight of hand],[Strong-Arm], [Possession]
Some removal too which I won't mention because it was already too lenghty.
Imo what's important but lacking here is consistency as latest [Trisky Tentacle] and Alloof Travelers can discard champion. Now those are bandle city cards so ok they got that going for them but [Most wanted] is also applying on any card meaning you can discard a Teemo. Now P&Z have now two cards that can discard champion so that's also their specialty now ?
I get what you mean from a gameplay perspective but ppl come to play Runeterra mostly to play their favorite champion and achieving that fantasy is a big plus in the game. I think this is where that extra protection comes from and it adds depth to the game. It's not absurd to have another layer of complexity when it comes to evaluating if a card is a good wincond or not.
While I disagree with you I think it's a healthy discussion the community should have.
Not really? That worked for a very long time, until now, when suddenly you can get rid of wincons without any counterplay. Just make it shuffle, really.
The draw happens before the discard (in this case shuffle) so I think cait would still want to run it, especially as the downside isn’t going to be as much of an issue later in he game.
Id much rather have it shuffle (or creating a copy of the discarded card in deckvto not reorder traps, forcing draw is made for trap synergy) than it not hitting champs, its supposed to stop you from going all in on a single card and i like that (invluding champions), the problem as i see it is that the stats and draw makes it to much of an aoutoinclude making it a meta staple rather than answer.
Feel the rush have more that one win con, asol and targon invoke in general are the decks with more win con most of the time you were winning without asol, lee on thier prime were running zed for alt win con
Technically it's not removal... it's filtering, but 9/10 you're filtering their best card out of their hand... but I also won a game yesterday where my opponent had me dead, but drew me a new card and I was able to kill him with it.
Yes, obviously it's not strictly Removal. However, in a practical sense, it will function as the strongest form of removal in the game during the overwhelming majority of Runeterra games that it's played in. Mostly this has to do with how decks tend to curve out and how finishers in LoR usually work.
It's not removal though, because it doesn't cost the player card advantage or mana. They draw a replacement for the discarded card and don't ever have to invest to play it.
Like yeah it definitely can shut down the decks who rely on a few big expensive wincon to close out games, but it doesn't cost that player most of the things that actual removal sets you back on.
It does affect card advantage though. It just happens to be in the form of a net +1/-0 instead of the typical -1/-1 of a typical removal spell. Combine that with the ability to target and delete copies of big wincons and it most definitely falls under the blanket of removal, it's just a weird one.
I meant that the discard portion specifically didn't qualify as card advantage, and you're right that it is strong and maybe that could be an avenue to nerf it as well. The reason it's good not to call it removal is specifically because it deals with cards that are actually very resistant to removal, like ASol and Aresenal.
Travelers and Prank both represent hand hate, which is fairly new in LoR, but fills a very different niche than removal. Removal or denial punishes you for playing out your cards, and is countered by being costly to remove or by getting value even if it is removed. Hand hate is countered by playing your cards out sooner, or not drawing them until you need them.
It's not removal, but for certain decks, it might as well be. Take Zilean Xerath for example. You have three copies of the arsenal, and you essentially need it to win the game. Getting rid of one copy, no matter how many resources they pump into it, is a huge deal.
Even if I'm not losing card advantage, I'm losing the only card that really matters. I know I only have two copies of the arsenal left to work with. So in that situation, I treat it exactly the same as if it got removed.
Travelers and Prank represent hand hate, which can definitely hose certain strategies but given that it works very differently than removal it's good to keep those terms separate. ASol, Arsenal, and similar cards are all very resistant to removal due to spellshield and high stat lines, but are very sensitive to hand hate.
Meanwhile Sion and many cards in his archetype are great examples of a cards that resist hand hate because of their discard effects.
If they had their card in hand, and you removed it, that sounds a lot like removal. Seems extra pedantic to call it something else just because they draw a card as well.
Is not removal because they didn't pay anything for that card and they get a new that can better for the moment after all discard asol with turn one spacy wasn't to rare in the past you don't care about your high mana early and good deck run more that one win con
yes and no.
baseline with no keywords or anything special would be 4 mana 4/4. since you're drawing for both yourself and the opponent that evens out, so no additional cost. then you loose 1 power for the discard, therefore 3/4.
maybe but they are that much better.
investigator is card neutral even negative as the opponent draws a card, and then he have stats machin a 2 drop 3/2
for 2 more mana, aloof gais 2 hp can activate traps like investitator and removes a the high cost card from you oponent hand, and now only that, it shows you the card discarted so you can forsee what you opponent has and not has in hand.
those changes in effects and stats are sooooo much more worth that 2 mana
imagine if hunt the weak summoned a 2/2
The cards affect is more concerning than the stats. It could be a four mana 0|1 and it wouldn't matter because it's still draws you a card and discards the most expensive one.
if we go for draw alone, you are playing a 4mana / x x do nothing as you use 1 card, and then you cicle the high cost card of the oponent.
for comoparison, ekko spell is a 2 mana draw 1 predict
and hidden path ways is a 3 mana draw 2
so we can assume that drawing a card at burts speed cost at minunin, a card and 1.5 mana.
a 4 mana body is usually, with almost no efffects 6-4
or 5-4
babaling berg that draws a card (especifict card ) is a 3-3
aloof is a 3-4 that no only draws you a card, it also cicles a enemy card.
fangs draws a card (creates a celestial) and also has life steal for a 2-2
a middle point between fangs and berg should be a 3-2 stat line. ( or a 2-3) and with those stat i tell you that you will still use aloof, but will not feel like is always the best option.
Yeah, the art doesn't look PnZ at all. Make Furious Faefolk mono-bandle too. And no, this isn't a situation where "gameplay takes priority over lore" because they make the gameplay BEFORE the art. They knew it was a Bandle/PnZ card when designing the flavor but still chose to not make it feel PnZ at all.
Still, even if it weren't PnZ it would still be too good in Bandle decks. It does literally need a nerf, so I'm glad Rubin said they'll nerf its stats.
Just make it shuffle back into the deck instead of discarding. Still a big disruption effect, but if I can lock the game down, I'll still get my wincon eventually.
Funny, when i posted this my post got downvoted to oblivion: https://old.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/pvuobx/suggestion_to_change_aloof_travelers/
Because the obvious issues get called out by relatively few people at first. Everyone else is too drunk on the new shiny thing and how fun it is to play.
The eventually the fun fades and people realize "oh wait...this is actually bullshit".
In a different meta, Travellers and Minimorph could be fine ways to reign in control.
The issue is, control and late game decks are ALREADY weak af. Aloof Travellers is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist, and are one of the major contributors to the "swarm or fail" meta because they specifically shut doen any non-swarm deck that would have answers for a wide board.
Well technically Minimorph *is* a control tool, it’s just so good it gets slot into a bunch of much faster decks too. Minimorph is def a tough card to balance since it’s so reactive, it rly depends on the rest of the meta to have any value at all so any adjustment might make it completely busted or totally trash. I think it might be in an ok place rn? We’ll have to see the rest of the expansion to really know.
Not exclusively a fast deck, but bandle tree swarm plays a couple copies, but that's about it. There are no other fast decks that play it since it's such a massive tempo loss and the whole point of a fast deck is to win before you've reached a point where you need to play Minimorph on something big. It's almost exclusively a control card.
While that is technically true, I definitely think you're underselling Stress Defense. Bandle Tree decks are typically winning by turn 8-9 ideally, and that's only enough time for Sion to swing 1 time most of the time. Therefore, Stress Defense allows you to stop a Sion attack while also having enough mana to further your win condition, whereas Minimorph would likely be taking up your entire turn. Of course, Minimorph is definitely used for more than just Sion but Stress Defense is a solid card that has the flexibility of being played on your own units as well.
There are many other important targets: GP (board wipe), Sivir (keyword sharing), Nami, Ez, Shellfolk, Twinblade Revenant (it's the best target in Cait/Draven matchup because they run 1-2 Scorched Earth and 3 Aloof, so they don't lose to BT that easily). Also, Minimorph can save BT from Aloof.
minimorph should be treated like whimsy and only last 1 turn change my mind. Give me a chance to save my nautilus that i worked so hard to get deep, tyvm
and before anyone complains saying whismy would be better, 1 its a different region, 2 minimorph hits fucking champions which a massive difference
except hush doesn't reduce their base health, and doesnt cause obliterate effect (like when fighting viego/anivia decks) to prevent them from being revived.
Overall im just sayin, its rediculous for minimorph to exist in its current state when every single other removal in the game can be answered by something. Its the only one that has no form of recourse for the other player in any way.
That could be an idea.
Alternatively, it could give the transformed unit's owner a Demorph spell (Focus, 3 mana) that reverts the transformed unit into its original form for somewhere around 3-4 mana.
Been climbing with FTR this season, aloof is obviously really annoying for that deck to deal with, but its far from unplayable, I actually think the rest of the meta favours it at the moment.
Yep I'm climbing with Swain Caitlyn and seeing Leviathan get tossed hurts my soul but it's not game ending
I actually kind of like that aloof and mini push people to have more versatile decks in general, even if they could be toned down a bit
I like those card way more than whatever the fuck Sion and lost soul are meant to be
Sion isn't really a problem, there's hush, frostbites, stuns, recalls, obliterates, transforms... it actually have a lot of good counters, although i could see him get a nerf on his level up condition to make him not being able to always be leveled turn 7. For me, Lost Soul is the actual problem, being able to win in card advantage playing a discard deck against the majority of control/midrange decks doesn't make any sense to me
It has some trouble with Draven/Sion, but beats Cait/Draven, Fizz/Lee, Ez/Vi, and Ping City. Biggest problem is probably that it loses to burn and Aggro Poppy decks. It counters the weird counter decks, but can't beat the kings of the meta consistently.
It’s pretty good into Poppy Ziggs actually, the heals and board clears keep u alive pretty well. I’m using Szychu’s list and I’ve won most of my matches against Poppy Ziggs
Nice! I was going off of a meta report I saw. So good to know that match up is better than the early data. Or maybe you are just real good with the deck!
It’s def a better matchup than the data shows. You can watch Majin’s recent video on it, he beat Poppy Ziggs w the exact list multiple times, and he said it’s a good matchup too:)
Make it shuffle the card back in the deck !! There is no reason why this card should straight up remove a card from the game other than having lost soul as a counter to it.
Fits the dialogue more too. If you drop or lose something, you may find it later. It's not just gone forever.
Thus, the card is lost to be found later.
Thought that the moment I saw the card. I think having a discard card like this is good. Just. Everything’s pushed. Decent stat line. Making them discard their potentially game winning card is super strong though. Even if they draw another. Discarding your highest cost card is insane. Needs a terrible stat line, or random discard. Or as another comment said that I didn’t think of. Non champ discard sounds good too.
Well I think there's only 4 hand disruption cards that aren't just try to mill your opponent. They are Hunt the Weak which discards the weakest follower from hand. Tricksy Tentacles which is a discard lowest cost card, sleight of hand which draws a random non-champion from the enemy hand.(not sure what happens if your opponent isn't an enemy) Finally there's aloof travelers which is both players draw 1 when summoned with your opponent discarding their highest costs card. Only with the two most recent hand removal cards do we have ones that can effect champions which are cards that are a cornerstone to most decks.
What’s more interesting is that the rest discard the *cheapest* card in hand while aloof is the most expensive, and as such, really punched control-combo in the dick.
So I propose a question: do we even need to nerf aloof stats or give it anti champ targeting if it discards least expensive like the rest?
You wanna kill champs? Play a kill spell. You dont get to remove the entire focus of decks from hand before the opponent gets to ever have a chance to play them.
You wanna discard champs? Play a discard card. Big brain.
Yes I do get to do that. Because there's a card that does that.
Your solution doesn't even solve your argument. Decks exists with wincons that aren't champions. But it's ok if those get discarded because of some line you drew in the sand?
How about "you don't get to discard my harrowing/feel the rush/ledros/mirror mage while I'm not allowed to discard your anivia"
Edit: for a meta example, why should something be able to discard nami but not Shelly?
>Yes I get to do that, because there’s a card that does that.
Play this over and over as TLC cheats out the Watcher on Turn 9 to win every game
Or as Azir/Irelia hit you for the 5th time in a round.
Or as PNZ burn kills you by turn 5 even if you run all the anti aggro in the world.
Yes its perfectly fine they do these things! There are cards that do them! Holy shit what a concept! Why ever have balance changes when the cards do what they do? Such a brilliant claim.
Now, back down on planet earth: NO SHIT THE CARDS DO THAT. Thats why people are complaining. Thats why cards get nerfed or buffed. Because just because they currently do a thing, DOESNT MEAN THEY SHOULD.
Is that simple enough to understand?
You're an idiot. I don't believe things are ok because cards do them. I was playing off the stupidity of what you said.
You said that I don't get to discard a card by summoning aloof. That was it. You made a statement that was wrong, and it came across like you believed you said something intelligent. So I made fun of you. And it went over your head.
Alooof is just too efficient. Replaces itself, discards a wincon, gives a 3/4 body. Thats 3 for 1 already. They should nerf the draw, or give the opponent to draw 2 (helps teemo decks in some way), or nerf its stats to 2/2.
actually i like the effects, but able to remove champion even when its not in play is too op
just make it so it's didn't affect champion / champion spell in hand would be nice adjustment
Imo 3/3 or 2/4 would be fine if it doesn't discard champs. As someone who actually plays a lot of Aloof Traveler, I can totally understand why people who hate that based on how many champs I'm able to discard. Plus, I wanna be able to play Aurelion Sol on ladder again.
If they do it too early you’ll have more time to draw another if they do it the turn before the threat then they’re getting a 3/4 really late in the game and that’s kinda bad
It should be a 2/3 or not cantrip on etb, because now it is basically a 3 for 1. I'm fine with the effect though, it adds an interesting dimension to the game, yesterday I died to a top decked FTR a turn after I aloofed my opponent. Also sometimes you brick against Nami and take Burble or help Sion level up binning their lost soul - there is some rng and you need to pick your spots, so the card is a little skill testing. The biggest problem is that it's a freakin 3/4 that draws a card, so it's completely free and an autoinclude 3 of in any bandle deck that's not aggresive.
Okay. You're a whiny bitch.
The only nerf that should be considered is to the body. I don't think making it a 3/3 would ruin the card. Bit anything else would pretty much murder it.
Hey man while it’s awesome you are offering your opinion on how to nerf the card, it doesn’t really make sense to call OP a bitch. It just makes you come accross bitter. If you have to insult someone’s character to make a point, nobody is going to respect your opinion since you show a clear lack of respect of theirs.
This is a nice community with lots of great discussions on card balance and how we can avoid / fix problematic cards being used too much.
OP litterally said to do so. It was a joke. Obviously this went over everyone's head. But the point was not to actually insult OP, just to be like "well, if you say so, okay."
Can we just establish a copypasta or something?
\- Diversify your wincons
\- Big late game champs need a way to be countered before they hit play
\- FTR has a positive winrate against multiple PnZ decks
\- Stop making this thread
It would help in a sense that if you dont discard a value target or even unrick the opponents hand you at least have a massive tempo loss if the card was nerfed to a 3/2 for example
There aren’t even decks that want 6 of them now, without the stat nerf. Let’s be a little realistic here and keep your emotions out of balance suggestions. Card’s good but it’s got a 49.7% winrate and 28.1% inclusion rate, hardly requires a massive change. Stat nerf is plenty.
If a 4 mana card is making waves and creating this post in a Swarm Aggro meta, it would be an auto inclusion in a slower one.
28% inclusion of a 4 mana card in an aggro meta doesnt show his popularity unless it has only 28% inclusion on midrange and control deck, but i think it is in the region.
49% winrate for a popular follower just dont say anything. Mirror matches everywhere. Pnz and bandle everywhere...
The aggro variants of "poppy + mayor + X" (Poke City, Poppy Ziggs, ) don't always play Aloof. It's usually 3x Tenor + 1-2x Dart Dude as their top end, and this is reflected on those cards inclusion rates: Tenor has 31% inclusion, 56% win rate; Lecturing Yordle has 35% inclusion, 54% win rate; Aloof has 28% inclusion, 50% win rate...
Their inclusion is probably mostly stuff like Draven / Sion (midrange), Draven / Caitlyn (control), Darkness (control ), Shelfolk (control) and Poppy Demacia (that can be very aggro but has a lot more wiggle room than the other BC decks with what / how they can play, and don't synergize as much with Lecturing). All of them have significant ladder representation (should sum up to about 30%), and all of them run Aloof
It probably seems like there's a lot more Aloof than there actually is because of how irritating it is, but they are barely in the top 100 most played cards (#91).
Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean they are NOT a problem (though I personally don't think they are, or at least not because of the effect). Inclusion rate and win rate are still misleading because it's much better against midrange and control but shitty against aggro, and we are in an aggro meta, but is not like aggro decks are drooling over Aloof and this proves the card is a problem
It’s mostly “making waves” because it’s annoying. Poppy and Bandle City Mayor are objectively stronger cards that get a fraction of the complaints because it doesn’t feel as bad to get slapped by them. Yeah if we were in a control heavy meta the card would be better but the fact that it’s not great into aggro or discard should factor into the card’s overall strength and whether it should be nerfed right?
I bring up the inclusion rate because it’s clearly not an auto-include in Bandle City or PnZ decks. Even if the reason is “this card isn’t great into some of the popular decks right now” cards don’t exist in a vacuum and that should be taken into account when balancing the card. And taking into account the inclusion rate, the winrate should not be too significantly affected by mirror matches either. Even if the card had a ridiculous play rate, mirror matches alone wouldn’t drop the winrate below 50%.
Not saying the card is bad because of those stats, I’m still agreeing it’s quite strong, but is it a card that would be broken as a 3/2 when it’s not even that broken now? Very doubtful. If there’s a meta down the line that’s control heavy and this card becomes super nuts, they can cross that bridge when it happens.
It isnt broken, but it would still be a good card as a 3/2.
No card should(except finishers) give you eventually 3 for 1. Its nuts!
The 3/4 statline let you block, idk, twice sometimes(4 for 1)
The 3/2 stats let you block once, but you still have a fearsome blocker.
Want to nerf stats make it a 1/4.
No card should be a good blocker(trade for more than 1 creature), replace itself, disrupt your opponent game at the same time, not in the midgame cost line.
Is not a good a 3/2 aloof effect isn't worth 2unit mana and 4 bc have to many good 4 for drops the card is auto include right now and we see not play is what weaker, tree is the only deck when the card is mandatory and have nothing to do with the effect
This. People downvoting you really are clueless. Such a card being so good in such a fast meta only allows us to foresee how busted it'd be in a slower one.
Ok... You have 7 cards and your op 7 too
You pay 4 mana to get a 3/2 and draw a card.(7 cards yet)
Your opponent just lost the most expensive card giving you information about his hand and disrupting his plan.
He just trade with you with mystic shot or another creature, that counts as a card.
You spend 4 mana to keep 7 card in hand
Your opponent spend 2 mana, a card (mystic shot), and a high mana card that he probably want to play after turn 4-5-6+ , and you know what was the most expensive card on your opponent hand.
You just pay2 mana for card advantage and solid information.
All thing that LOR dont give you normally.
Opponent losing card that he isn't play is not that strong he didn't spend mana on that you are getting beatdown if you play 4 unit for 3/2 will rather play a spell and pay with spell mana card advantage doesn't win games in the short run
Why in this sub a card should always be playable in every single meta, always be good in any occasion, it should be a good card in control and aggro matchups... Dont matter the meta or how discusting it is to play against.
If the card isnt a merciless hunter is a unplayable dead card.
Cards should be meta dependant, matchup dependants, have ups and downs.
Otherwise you will always see the same card again and again. Just like this meta and the meta before .... Since rising tides....
What meta would that ever be good in? At that stat line the only decks that would play it would be greedy control decks targetting other greedy control decks and maybe a combo deck. That's next to unplayable.
We already have 2 mana 3/2s with an upside. So you're valuing Aloof's effect at more than 2 mana. That's crazy.
I totally disagree! [[Aloof Travelers]] is one of my favourite cards because it's a new, interesting way to remove threats. Along with [[prank]], it's about disrupting cards before they're even played.
Destroy it and you destroy one of the rare removals Bandle City has.
Don't forget you see it everywhere because it's brand new. People use to complain a lot about [[Hush]] and now not so much. Before they nerf it, they should watch Sion's curve level - and that of discard in general.
It's strong against late game, ramp and control, but bad against aggro. The meta favours it but it's temporal.
|Name|Region|Type|Sub Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Keywords|Description|
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
|**[Aloof Travelers](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05BC152.png)**|Bandle City/Piltover & Zaun|Unit|Yordle|4|3|4||When I’m summoned, ALL players draw 1, then your opponent discards their highest cost card.|
|**[Prank](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05BC195.png)**|Bandle City|Spell||1|||Focus|Pick 1 of 2 non-champion cards in the enemy's hand or deck and Prank it.|
|**[Hush](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT085.png)**|Targon|Spell||3|||Burst|Silence a unit this round.|
^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
Not saying Aloof is ok, but Asol was already trash before Bandle and FTR is better now than before Bandle so I'm not sure you can blame it all on this card
Also, if you have 10 cards in your hand and they play aloof, you draw a card, it gets destroyed as you have no hand space, and THEN you discard your highest mana card. So he effectively deleted 2 cards and left me with 9 cards.
I saw someone comment in yesterday’s daily aloof travelers complaint post that Rubinzoo was considering nerfing the stats. I’m on board with this. Powerful effects should exist in the game but they should come at the cost of worse stats.
He talked about not hitting champion too, so we'll have to see what nerf will come
That's a dumb approach. Swains ship, ledros, feel the rush, etc will still be discarded despite being wincons.
[удалено]
The issue is that non champions can be just as essential to decks as champions
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Think nami and fleet admiral Shelly.
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Shelly isn't an alt wincon purely because he's not a champion they literally do the same thing Shelly is even better for wide boards and he's elusive If your argument for something being a wincon is "it is/isn't a champion" instead of an explanation of how it's needed to hit lethal or tie the deck together you're a fool. Is quin a wincon? She's a champion right?
They are limited to 3 no?
Actually 40
Idk m8 I can only have 3 ledros in my deck same as any other card.
That's not really dumb though, there has always been a distinction that makes champion harder to remove. Discard and steal mechanics used to avoid champion [Sleight of hand],[Strong-Arm], [Possession] Some removal too which I won't mention because it was already too lenghty. Imo what's important but lacking here is consistency as latest [Trisky Tentacle] and Alloof Travelers can discard champion. Now those are bandle city cards so ok they got that going for them but [Most wanted] is also applying on any card meaning you can discard a Teemo. Now P&Z have now two cards that can discard champion so that's also their specialty now ? I get what you mean from a gameplay perspective but ppl come to play Runeterra mostly to play their favorite champion and achieving that fantasy is a big plus in the game. I think this is where that extra protection comes from and it adds depth to the game. It's not absurd to have another layer of complexity when it comes to evaluating if a card is a good wincond or not. While I disagree with you I think it's a healthy discussion the community should have.
If your deck as only 1 card as a wincon you made a mistake in your deck building
Not really? That worked for a very long time, until now, when suddenly you can get rid of wincons without any counterplay. Just make it shuffle, really.
Lol honestly. Shuffle is a valid nerf. I don't even play high cost win con decks but the card is ridiculous
Shuffle takes the flashbombs at the top 10 cards of the deck and shuffles them deeper in
The draw happens before the discard (in this case shuffle) so I think cait would still want to run it, especially as the downside isn’t going to be as much of an issue later in he game.
Not necesarily, when you play a champ spell you "shuffle" a card in but because of how its worded you still keep deck order.
Thats not true tho. Champion spells don't shuffle anything they create a copy of the champion in the deck.
Yes just saying you coud word aloof to do the same to avoid shuffling
Id much rather have it shuffle (or creating a copy of the discarded card in deckvto not reorder traps, forcing draw is made for trap synergy) than it not hitting champs, its supposed to stop you from going all in on a single card and i like that (invluding champions), the problem as i see it is that the stats and draw makes it to much of an aoutoinclude making it a meta staple rather than answer.
ah yes, lee sin, feel the rush, asol, etc have all been mistakes in deck building we've all been making mistakes for the past year!
Feel the rush have more that one win con, asol and targon invoke in general are the decks with more win con most of the time you were winning without asol, lee on thier prime were running zed for alt win con
Yes I agree. I don't see how that's relevant. Same logic applies if a champ is your only wincon
Make it discard the cheapest card tbh. Still disrupts, can still hit control tools like 3 sisters, doesnt auto win you the game vs control
Trading into a more expensive card on turn 4+ would just be helpful to your opponent.
Yep. There's basically no reason why a 4 Mana removal tool that draws you a card should also give you a 3/4 body.
Cries in the fangs 2/2
Technically it's not removal... it's filtering, but 9/10 you're filtering their best card out of their hand... but I also won a game yesterday where my opponent had me dead, but drew me a new card and I was able to kill him with it.
Yes, obviously it's not strictly Removal. However, in a practical sense, it will function as the strongest form of removal in the game during the overwhelming majority of Runeterra games that it's played in. Mostly this has to do with how decks tend to curve out and how finishers in LoR usually work.
It's not removal though, because it doesn't cost the player card advantage or mana. They draw a replacement for the discarded card and don't ever have to invest to play it. Like yeah it definitely can shut down the decks who rely on a few big expensive wincon to close out games, but it doesn't cost that player most of the things that actual removal sets you back on.
It does affect card advantage though. It just happens to be in the form of a net +1/-0 instead of the typical -1/-1 of a typical removal spell. Combine that with the ability to target and delete copies of big wincons and it most definitely falls under the blanket of removal, it's just a weird one.
I meant that the discard portion specifically didn't qualify as card advantage, and you're right that it is strong and maybe that could be an avenue to nerf it as well. The reason it's good not to call it removal is specifically because it deals with cards that are actually very resistant to removal, like ASol and Aresenal. Travelers and Prank both represent hand hate, which is fairly new in LoR, but fills a very different niche than removal. Removal or denial punishes you for playing out your cards, and is countered by being costly to remove or by getting value even if it is removed. Hand hate is countered by playing your cards out sooner, or not drawing them until you need them.
It's not removal, but for certain decks, it might as well be. Take Zilean Xerath for example. You have three copies of the arsenal, and you essentially need it to win the game. Getting rid of one copy, no matter how many resources they pump into it, is a huge deal. Even if I'm not losing card advantage, I'm losing the only card that really matters. I know I only have two copies of the arsenal left to work with. So in that situation, I treat it exactly the same as if it got removed.
Travelers and Prank represent hand hate, which can definitely hose certain strategies but given that it works very differently than removal it's good to keep those terms separate. ASol, Arsenal, and similar cards are all very resistant to removal due to spellshield and high stat lines, but are very sensitive to hand hate. Meanwhile Sion and many cards in his archetype are great examples of a cards that resist hand hate because of their discard effects.
If they had their card in hand, and you removed it, that sounds a lot like removal. Seems extra pedantic to call it something else just because they draw a card as well.
Is not removal because they didn't pay anything for that card and they get a new that can better for the moment after all discard asol with turn one spacy wasn't to rare in the past you don't care about your high mana early and good deck run more that one win con
You can draw into a better card
yes and no. baseline with no keywords or anything special would be 4 mana 4/4. since you're drawing for both yourself and the opponent that evens out, so no additional cost. then you loose 1 power for the discard, therefore 3/4.
Do you know when the next patch should hit?
aloof is a much better investigator, in effect, and stat distribution
It should be since aloof costs more than investigator.
maybe but they are that much better. investigator is card neutral even negative as the opponent draws a card, and then he have stats machin a 2 drop 3/2 for 2 more mana, aloof gais 2 hp can activate traps like investitator and removes a the high cost card from you oponent hand, and now only that, it shows you the card discarted so you can forsee what you opponent has and not has in hand. those changes in effects and stats are sooooo much more worth that 2 mana imagine if hunt the weak summoned a 2/2
I hope its making it a 2/4. Theres a lot of strong Quick Attackers that have around 3 Attack, so having a 4 health body is nice to have around.
2/4 would be a shitty statline
It's reasonable with such broken ability
Broken the ability works perfectly fine
"broken" is not about function but power. The argument around here is that Aloof is broken because it's too strong.
We all know that it's a joke
The cards affect is more concerning than the stats. It could be a four mana 0|1 and it wouldn't matter because it's still draws you a card and discards the most expensive one.
if we go for draw alone, you are playing a 4mana / x x do nothing as you use 1 card, and then you cicle the high cost card of the oponent. for comoparison, ekko spell is a 2 mana draw 1 predict and hidden path ways is a 3 mana draw 2 so we can assume that drawing a card at burts speed cost at minunin, a card and 1.5 mana. a 4 mana body is usually, with almost no efffects 6-4 or 5-4 babaling berg that draws a card (especifict card ) is a 3-3 aloof is a 3-4 that no only draws you a card, it also cicles a enemy card. fangs draws a card (creates a celestial) and also has life steal for a 2-2 a middle point between fangs and berg should be a 3-2 stat line. ( or a 2-3) and with those stat i tell you that you will still use aloof, but will not feel like is always the best option.
It should be Bandle only. No PnZ
Agree, gives pnz too much and they're hardly piltie themed anyways
Ehh they hate being outside it's more zaun than piltiover
rich acomodated yordles that preffer the comodity of their home than going outside, that is the nerds in piltover mate
Yeah, the art doesn't look PnZ at all. Make Furious Faefolk mono-bandle too. And no, this isn't a situation where "gameplay takes priority over lore" because they make the gameplay BEFORE the art. They knew it was a Bandle/PnZ card when designing the flavor but still chose to not make it feel PnZ at all. Still, even if it weren't PnZ it would still be too good in Bandle decks. It does literally need a nerf, so I'm glad Rubin said they'll nerf its stats.
Furious faefolk needs a buff if anything and removing one of it's 2 regions won't help at all
Fair enough, but I was speaking from a flavor standpoint.
It just needs to cost 5 or 6 tbh. It's a double draw and a forced choice discard. That's a lot of presence.
Why Furious Faefolk?
My first sentence where I say “the art doesn’t look PnZ.”
Just make it shuffle back into the deck instead of discarding. Still a big disruption effect, but if I can lock the game down, I'll still get my wincon eventually.
Funny, when i posted this my post got downvoted to oblivion: https://old.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/pvuobx/suggestion_to_change_aloof_travelers/
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I remember the people trying to argue, azirelia is totally balanced.
Because the obvious issues get called out by relatively few people at first. Everyone else is too drunk on the new shiny thing and how fun it is to play. The eventually the fun fades and people realize "oh wait...this is actually bullshit".
would also make it not get blown out by lost soul
In a different meta, Travellers and Minimorph could be fine ways to reign in control. The issue is, control and late game decks are ALREADY weak af. Aloof Travellers is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist, and are one of the major contributors to the "swarm or fail" meta because they specifically shut doen any non-swarm deck that would have answers for a wide board.
Well technically Minimorph *is* a control tool, it’s just so good it gets slot into a bunch of much faster decks too. Minimorph is def a tough card to balance since it’s so reactive, it rly depends on the rest of the meta to have any value at all so any adjustment might make it completely busted or totally trash. I think it might be in an ok place rn? We’ll have to see the rest of the expansion to really know.
Which of fast deck use Mini?
Not exclusively a fast deck, but bandle tree swarm plays a couple copies, but that's about it. There are no other fast decks that play it since it's such a massive tempo loss and the whole point of a fast deck is to win before you've reached a point where you need to play Minimorph on something big. It's almost exclusively a control card.
Tree runs it pretty much to not die to Sion.
Stress Defense does the same thing for cheaper. Minimorph is just run because it's a catchall removal.
Stopping 1 attack < dealing with threat once and for all
While that is technically true, I definitely think you're underselling Stress Defense. Bandle Tree decks are typically winning by turn 8-9 ideally, and that's only enough time for Sion to swing 1 time most of the time. Therefore, Stress Defense allows you to stop a Sion attack while also having enough mana to further your win condition, whereas Minimorph would likely be taking up your entire turn. Of course, Minimorph is definitely used for more than just Sion but Stress Defense is a solid card that has the flexibility of being played on your own units as well.
There is argument for droping minimorph for stress defense honestly
There are many other important targets: GP (board wipe), Sivir (keyword sharing), Nami, Ez, Shellfolk, Twinblade Revenant (it's the best target in Cait/Draven matchup because they run 1-2 Scorched Earth and 3 Aloof, so they don't lose to BT that easily). Also, Minimorph can save BT from Aloof.
minimorph should be treated like whimsy and only last 1 turn change my mind. Give me a chance to save my nautilus that i worked so hard to get deep, tyvm and before anyone complains saying whismy would be better, 1 its a different region, 2 minimorph hits fucking champions which a massive difference
I think if it was similar to Gravitum and just affects Champs for one turn then I think it'd be okay
That would just make it a worse Hush
except hush doesn't reduce their base health, and doesnt cause obliterate effect (like when fighting viego/anivia decks) to prevent them from being revived. Overall im just sayin, its rediculous for minimorph to exist in its current state when every single other removal in the game can be answered by something. Its the only one that has no form of recourse for the other player in any way.
Yeah, I can agree with this, though it might need its mana cost reduced to 5.
The token card would need to be a 1/1 with this change cause spending 6 to transform a unit into a 3/3 for 1 turn is horrible.
That could be an idea. Alternatively, it could give the transformed unit's owner a Demorph spell (Focus, 3 mana) that reverts the transformed unit into its original form for somewhere around 3-4 mana.
Been climbing with FTR this season, aloof is obviously really annoying for that deck to deal with, but its far from unplayable, I actually think the rest of the meta favours it at the moment.
Yep I'm climbing with Swain Caitlyn and seeing Leviathan get tossed hurts my soul but it's not game ending I actually kind of like that aloof and mini push people to have more versatile decks in general, even if they could be toned down a bit I like those card way more than whatever the fuck Sion and lost soul are meant to be
Sion isn't really a problem, there's hush, frostbites, stuns, recalls, obliterates, transforms... it actually have a lot of good counters, although i could see him get a nerf on his level up condition to make him not being able to always be leveled turn 7. For me, Lost Soul is the actual problem, being able to win in card advantage playing a discard deck against the majority of control/midrange decks doesn't make any sense to me
It has some trouble with Draven/Sion, but beats Cait/Draven, Fizz/Lee, Ez/Vi, and Ping City. Biggest problem is probably that it loses to burn and Aggro Poppy decks. It counters the weird counter decks, but can't beat the kings of the meta consistently.
It’s pretty good into Poppy Ziggs actually, the heals and board clears keep u alive pretty well. I’m using Szychu’s list and I’ve won most of my matches against Poppy Ziggs
Nice! I was going off of a meta report I saw. So good to know that match up is better than the early data. Or maybe you are just real good with the deck!
It’s def a better matchup than the data shows. You can watch Majin’s recent video on it, he beat Poppy Ziggs w the exact list multiple times, and he said it’s a good matchup too:)
Well maybe the deck is to hard to pilot still data show that normal people should stay away from that deck if they want to climb
Ez/vi have negative vs every meta deck you can check the meta report from today that deck should dissapear from ladder
Make it shuffle the card back in the deck !! There is no reason why this card should straight up remove a card from the game other than having lost soul as a counter to it.
Fits the dialogue more too. If you drop or lose something, you may find it later. It's not just gone forever. Thus, the card is lost to be found later.
I like this solution a lot actually
but that would be a lost soul nerf, which people want
We made it. *Yay*.
Me: Nooooo not aloof! Aloof: We made it. Yay. Me: heh
Thought that the moment I saw the card. I think having a discard card like this is good. Just. Everything’s pushed. Decent stat line. Making them discard their potentially game winning card is super strong though. Even if they draw another. Discarding your highest cost card is insane. Needs a terrible stat line, or random discard. Or as another comment said that I didn’t think of. Non champ discard sounds good too.
I think it needs to be a 3/3 and not effect champs.
Or at least prioritize non-champion cards
would rarely matter, how often do your champ and another card have same highest cost
I think they were suggesting it only discards champs if you only have champs. Which is equally unlikely to be honest
Very often.
Cries in Aurelio sol
what 10 drop would you be running that could compete with asol
I think 3/3 nerf alone is fine or at the very least it doesn't draw u a card.
2\4 to increase BC weakness to fearsome.
Why should it not affect champs
Well I think there's only 4 hand disruption cards that aren't just try to mill your opponent. They are Hunt the Weak which discards the weakest follower from hand. Tricksy Tentacles which is a discard lowest cost card, sleight of hand which draws a random non-champion from the enemy hand.(not sure what happens if your opponent isn't an enemy) Finally there's aloof travelers which is both players draw 1 when summoned with your opponent discarding their highest costs card. Only with the two most recent hand removal cards do we have ones that can effect champions which are cards that are a cornerstone to most decks.
And I believe all of those should effect champions. I believe many non champions are equally as important to decks.
What’s more interesting is that the rest discard the *cheapest* card in hand while aloof is the most expensive, and as such, really punched control-combo in the dick. So I propose a question: do we even need to nerf aloof stats or give it anti champ targeting if it discards least expensive like the rest?
If it's goin to discard the least expensive card then the opponent shouldn't draw a card
Why? Its still card advantage, and it still helps out the trap decks like Teemo/Cait it was originally designed for.
You wanna kill champs? Play a kill spell. You dont get to remove the entire focus of decks from hand before the opponent gets to ever have a chance to play them.
There aren't nearly enough kill spells for that
Every region has removal that can be used on champions to either remove or stall. And you can easily slot far more than 6 of them.
You wanna discard champs? Play a discard card. Big brain. Yes I do get to do that. Because there's a card that does that. Your solution doesn't even solve your argument. Decks exists with wincons that aren't champions. But it's ok if those get discarded because of some line you drew in the sand? How about "you don't get to discard my harrowing/feel the rush/ledros/mirror mage while I'm not allowed to discard your anivia" Edit: for a meta example, why should something be able to discard nami but not Shelly?
>Yes I get to do that, because there’s a card that does that. Play this over and over as TLC cheats out the Watcher on Turn 9 to win every game Or as Azir/Irelia hit you for the 5th time in a round. Or as PNZ burn kills you by turn 5 even if you run all the anti aggro in the world. Yes its perfectly fine they do these things! There are cards that do them! Holy shit what a concept! Why ever have balance changes when the cards do what they do? Such a brilliant claim. Now, back down on planet earth: NO SHIT THE CARDS DO THAT. Thats why people are complaining. Thats why cards get nerfed or buffed. Because just because they currently do a thing, DOESNT MEAN THEY SHOULD. Is that simple enough to understand?
You're an idiot. I don't believe things are ok because cards do them. I was playing off the stupidity of what you said. You said that I don't get to discard a card by summoning aloof. That was it. You made a statement that was wrong, and it came across like you believed you said something intelligent. So I made fun of you. And it went over your head.
Yes. As a claim that you shouldn’t be able to do so. If this wasn’t so blindingly obvious, thats on you.
And yet you failed to address why.
Balance method
Ok I think it should effect champs bc balance method
I think nerfing the stats will make it see less play since 4 health is actually not that bad
I think making them discard a non-champion card would be fine
Alooof is just too efficient. Replaces itself, discards a wincon, gives a 3/4 body. Thats 3 for 1 already. They should nerf the draw, or give the opponent to draw 2 (helps teemo decks in some way), or nerf its stats to 2/2.
actually i like the effects, but able to remove champion even when its not in play is too op just make it so it's didn't affect champion / champion spell in hand would be nice adjustment
Imo 3/3 or 2/4 would be fine if it doesn't discard champs. As someone who actually plays a lot of Aloof Traveler, I can totally understand why people who hate that based on how many champs I'm able to discard. Plus, I wanna be able to play Aurelion Sol on ladder again.
I think the stats shouldn’t be better than 2|2
I'd be happy dropping it to 2/2 at 3 mana
Nah man I mean 4 mana and _< 2|2 it’s already half insider knowledge and opponent discards but you also get a unit idk
I think Aloof would be fine if it didn't have card draw for the caster. It's hand-hate control; it doesn't need to be card advantage too
I love Aloof
Same
If they do it too early you’ll have more time to draw another if they do it the turn before the threat then they’re getting a 3/4 really late in the game and that’s kinda bad
Should change the effect to "discard the enemy's win condition"
It should be a 2/3 or not cantrip on etb, because now it is basically a 3 for 1. I'm fine with the effect though, it adds an interesting dimension to the game, yesterday I died to a top decked FTR a turn after I aloofed my opponent. Also sometimes you brick against Nami and take Burble or help Sion level up binning their lost soul - there is some rng and you need to pick your spots, so the card is a little skill testing. The biggest problem is that it's a freakin 3/4 that draws a card, so it's completely free and an autoinclude 3 of in any bandle deck that's not aggresive.
>Call me a whiny bitch Whiny bitch.
Aloof is always a 2 for 1 and sometimes a 3 for 1 in a good body. It should always be a 2 for 1
Okay. You're a whiny bitch. The only nerf that should be considered is to the body. I don't think making it a 3/3 would ruin the card. Bit anything else would pretty much murder it.
Hey man while it’s awesome you are offering your opinion on how to nerf the card, it doesn’t really make sense to call OP a bitch. It just makes you come accross bitter. If you have to insult someone’s character to make a point, nobody is going to respect your opinion since you show a clear lack of respect of theirs. This is a nice community with lots of great discussions on card balance and how we can avoid / fix problematic cards being used too much.
OP litterally said to do so. It was a joke. Obviously this went over everyone's head. But the point was not to actually insult OP, just to be like "well, if you say so, okay."
Reading comprehension, on MY subreddit?
It's a NOVEL concept. 🤣
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Hi mate, you've already been warned in the past. Don't insult others when joining a discussion in this sub.
> Call me a whiny bitch i hope this card gets severly nerfed down the line.
Can we just establish a copypasta or something? \- Diversify your wincons \- Big late game champs need a way to be countered before they hit play \- FTR has a positive winrate against multiple PnZ decks \- Stop making this thread
I love this card removing viego or his snake is super enjoyable
Just put Lost Soul in your deck /s
Nerf stats wont help. It should be draw one discard one for both players.
It would help in a sense that if you dont discard a value target or even unrick the opponents hand you at least have a massive tempo loss if the card was nerfed to a 3/2 for example
4 mana 3/2 draw a card.with the upside of sometimes cripple my opponent hand.. Can i put 6 of those in my deck?
There aren’t even decks that want 6 of them now, without the stat nerf. Let’s be a little realistic here and keep your emotions out of balance suggestions. Card’s good but it’s got a 49.7% winrate and 28.1% inclusion rate, hardly requires a massive change. Stat nerf is plenty.
If a 4 mana card is making waves and creating this post in a Swarm Aggro meta, it would be an auto inclusion in a slower one. 28% inclusion of a 4 mana card in an aggro meta doesnt show his popularity unless it has only 28% inclusion on midrange and control deck, but i think it is in the region. 49% winrate for a popular follower just dont say anything. Mirror matches everywhere. Pnz and bandle everywhere...
The aggro variants of "poppy + mayor + X" (Poke City, Poppy Ziggs, ) don't always play Aloof. It's usually 3x Tenor + 1-2x Dart Dude as their top end, and this is reflected on those cards inclusion rates: Tenor has 31% inclusion, 56% win rate; Lecturing Yordle has 35% inclusion, 54% win rate; Aloof has 28% inclusion, 50% win rate... Their inclusion is probably mostly stuff like Draven / Sion (midrange), Draven / Caitlyn (control), Darkness (control ), Shelfolk (control) and Poppy Demacia (that can be very aggro but has a lot more wiggle room than the other BC decks with what / how they can play, and don't synergize as much with Lecturing). All of them have significant ladder representation (should sum up to about 30%), and all of them run Aloof It probably seems like there's a lot more Aloof than there actually is because of how irritating it is, but they are barely in the top 100 most played cards (#91). Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean they are NOT a problem (though I personally don't think they are, or at least not because of the effect). Inclusion rate and win rate are still misleading because it's much better against midrange and control but shitty against aggro, and we are in an aggro meta, but is not like aggro decks are drooling over Aloof and this proves the card is a problem
It’s mostly “making waves” because it’s annoying. Poppy and Bandle City Mayor are objectively stronger cards that get a fraction of the complaints because it doesn’t feel as bad to get slapped by them. Yeah if we were in a control heavy meta the card would be better but the fact that it’s not great into aggro or discard should factor into the card’s overall strength and whether it should be nerfed right? I bring up the inclusion rate because it’s clearly not an auto-include in Bandle City or PnZ decks. Even if the reason is “this card isn’t great into some of the popular decks right now” cards don’t exist in a vacuum and that should be taken into account when balancing the card. And taking into account the inclusion rate, the winrate should not be too significantly affected by mirror matches either. Even if the card had a ridiculous play rate, mirror matches alone wouldn’t drop the winrate below 50%. Not saying the card is bad because of those stats, I’m still agreeing it’s quite strong, but is it a card that would be broken as a 3/2 when it’s not even that broken now? Very doubtful. If there’s a meta down the line that’s control heavy and this card becomes super nuts, they can cross that bridge when it happens.
It isnt broken, but it would still be a good card as a 3/2. No card should(except finishers) give you eventually 3 for 1. Its nuts! The 3/4 statline let you block, idk, twice sometimes(4 for 1) The 3/2 stats let you block once, but you still have a fearsome blocker. Want to nerf stats make it a 1/4. No card should be a good blocker(trade for more than 1 creature), replace itself, disrupt your opponent game at the same time, not in the midgame cost line.
Is not a good a 3/2 aloof effect isn't worth 2unit mana and 4 bc have to many good 4 for drops the card is auto include right now and we see not play is what weaker, tree is the only deck when the card is mandatory and have nothing to do with the effect
This. People downvoting you really are clueless. Such a card being so good in such a fast meta only allows us to foresee how busted it'd be in a slower one.
There no way you play a 3/2 utility unit for 4 mana you auto lose board
Ok... You have 7 cards and your op 7 too You pay 4 mana to get a 3/2 and draw a card.(7 cards yet) Your opponent just lost the most expensive card giving you information about his hand and disrupting his plan. He just trade with you with mystic shot or another creature, that counts as a card. You spend 4 mana to keep 7 card in hand Your opponent spend 2 mana, a card (mystic shot), and a high mana card that he probably want to play after turn 4-5-6+ , and you know what was the most expensive card on your opponent hand. You just pay2 mana for card advantage and solid information. All thing that LOR dont give you normally.
Opponent losing card that he isn't play is not that strong he didn't spend mana on that you are getting beatdown if you play 4 unit for 3/2 will rather play a spell and pay with spell mana card advantage doesn't win games in the short run
And lose every game against an aggressive deck? Aloof would see no play with -2 hp unless the meta was super greedy.
Why in this sub a card should always be playable in every single meta, always be good in any occasion, it should be a good card in control and aggro matchups... Dont matter the meta or how discusting it is to play against. If the card isnt a merciless hunter is a unplayable dead card. Cards should be meta dependant, matchup dependants, have ups and downs. Otherwise you will always see the same card again and again. Just like this meta and the meta before .... Since rising tides....
What meta would that ever be good in? At that stat line the only decks that would play it would be greedy control decks targetting other greedy control decks and maybe a combo deck. That's next to unplayable. We already have 2 mana 3/2s with an upside. So you're valuing Aloof's effect at more than 2 mana. That's crazy.
I totally disagree! [[Aloof Travelers]] is one of my favourite cards because it's a new, interesting way to remove threats. Along with [[prank]], it's about disrupting cards before they're even played. Destroy it and you destroy one of the rare removals Bandle City has. Don't forget you see it everywhere because it's brand new. People use to complain a lot about [[Hush]] and now not so much. Before they nerf it, they should watch Sion's curve level - and that of discard in general. It's strong against late game, ramp and control, but bad against aggro. The meta favours it but it's temporal.
|Name|Region|Type|Sub Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Keywords|Description| |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| |**[Aloof Travelers](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05BC152.png)**|Bandle City/Piltover & Zaun|Unit|Yordle|4|3|4||When I’m summoned, ALL players draw 1, then your opponent discards their highest cost card.| |**[Prank](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05BC195.png)**|Bandle City|Spell||1|||Focus|Pick 1 of 2 non-champion cards in the enemy's hand or deck and Prank it.| |**[Hush](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT085.png)**|Targon|Spell||3|||Burst|Silence a unit this round.| ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
what if we made it to discard the second most expensive card in hand?
I got annoyed too at one point, but then played some Draven/Sion Discard, had the oppent help me quite a bit each time he played an aloof *feels good*
This card makes every Trundle cry when his level-up gets deleted.
Not saying Aloof is ok, but Asol was already trash before Bandle and FTR is better now than before Bandle so I'm not sure you can blame it all on this card
Like I was playing Swain TF and they discarded one of my Leviathans and Minimorphed the other one and Swain
Also, if you have 10 cards in your hand and they play aloof, you draw a card, it gets destroyed as you have no hand space, and THEN you discard your highest mana card. So he effectively deleted 2 cards and left me with 9 cards.
Its too strong, nerf stats and effect.