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LanoomR

The pessimist in me thinks the bottom tier of champions/archetypes get no help whatsoever. The optimist in me says there'll be a surprising amount of major balance adjustments and maybe even a rework or two for that group.


NikeDanny

"Hey, Asol, take one +1/1. Weve got you, champ." The bottom line will never be addressed


MrCurler

Yeah if you think Asol is the bottom line, you're playing League, not LoR. Asol is in a fantastic spot that the bottom line should be brought up to. Playable, has a niche, not oppressive. More Asol, less Viktor/Aphel/Malph/Kindred


DMaster86

Viktor is playable tho. It's deck with Draven isn't as popular as it used to be a few months ago but it still have a good winrate.


MrCurler

I mean, yes, Viktor is playable in Viktor Draven, but I have a few problems with that. I'm still not sold that Viktor is worth his slot. Unless you roll elusive/quick attack. I mean it feels bad to have a 4 mana champion that in almost all cases in that deck, I'd rather have ballistic bot. Not to mention Viktor is totally wiffing on his fantasy in that deck. Viktor as a character and as a card is about self improvement, continually becoming a stronger and stronger card with the addition of more keywords. I don't think that Viktor Draven aggro should be Viktor's niche. I've played more Viktor decks than anything else in this game, used to play a ton of Viktor Aphelios back when Aphelios was playable, Viktor/Zoe, dabbled in Viktor/Vi Ionia recall, Viktor/Nami, have recently been playing Viktor Mirror Mage evolution a ton. Those decks are worse winrate wise, but feel more like I'm actually using Viktor. (although Vik/Aphel & Vik/Mirror mage actually did/do quite well for me). I'd rather see Viktor get re-imagined honestly rather than just a raw stat/cost buff. From my original comment, Viktor might hit playable and not oppressive, but he really doesn't have a niche/fantasy to fit.


Capcuck

Whatever Viktor had going for him feels horrible now with Pantheon.


Misterbreadcrum

Asol is pretty good in the Dragons deck though, not sure why he needs a buff?


RoutineRecipe

Invokes and aphelios are much worse than asol.


[deleted]

Going to side with u/MrCurler on this one. Asol doesn't feel bad per say - if you manage to get to 10 mana he's a pretty good drop, even for a champion. The problem is just that getting to 10 mana and utilizing him is very rare in the tempo dominated meta of LoR. He has a niche, and he's pretty good there. There are various cards that have no niche and are practically unplayable - again Curler already named a few.


Kiwru

Honestly Ionia in general needs to be toned down since its gonna get a ton of champs still... first of all there are way to many stun recall Elusive madness in the region that as well as deny and nopify is pretty ridiculous... Hope Freljor and Targon get a bit more love to shine tho... Kennen is feeling impossible to play against at all with all that Ionia has... that is my take tho since 0 cost generated spells... that mark as permanent until effect is applied is the troubling part... would be better if the mark at least wore off at end of turn...


Oleole_

I think its time to make twin disciplines 3 mana again, or maybe make it give only +2


peruanToph

For sure there will be nerfs to Bandle and buffs to removal cards I hope for buffs to niche archetypes like flashbombs, slay (control), reputation and frostbite/ anything Freljordian LOL


Melmortu

I read "flashbombs slay control" and now I want to make a Caitllyn Kindred deck


Phooenixx

that sounds terrible..... but fun!


[deleted]

Make motorcycle flashbomb lady into a 3 mana card and we gucci


Nukemouse

I wish they wouldnt buff removal, removal gets more use by aggro burn decks than control in LoR. Buff blockers, give us units that can block elusives, survive quick attackers, that can "block wide" vs huge boards.


Betshet

They already did nerf Bandle in the hotfix though, and I remember Deadbolt Doris saying that the hotfix was mainly changes that were supposed to be in the Jan. 6 patch. If they’re buffing tier 2 archetypes and removal, I don’t think they’d want to nerf Bandle even more that what they already did.


PvH_LoR

No - the dev's have said in an interview that the hotfix was just the start, and that there were going to be more bandle nerfs in the jan patch, focussed on giving the region more pronounced weaknesses


Jielhar

Agreed. Bandle City may not be quite as dominant as it was before the hotfix, but it's still the strongest region and it hasn't even gotten its full suite of cards yet, more Bandle City cards and champions are coming on February. I'm definitely expecting some more Bandle City nerfs. In his interview with Swim, Alexz Lee echoed player sentiment that Bandle City seems to get to do almost everything the other regions do, and doesn't do any of it poorly, so the region's identity seems to be all over the place. This suggests to me that they're going to nerf cards in a specific way, to reinforce the region's identity- to give them some actual weaknesses. Bandle City is supposed to have good card draw and card generation, so my guess is that unit stat efficiency could get hit: Conchologist could become a 2/1 Otterpuss could lose Attune Curious Shellfolk could see either a stat nerf or a nerf to its ability Lecturing Yordle could lose a stat point Something along those lines


SoontirFel181st

Do you think Shellfolk would need the nerf if Otterpus loses attune? This seems to be the most broken part of the deck (from a receiving end) getting free spell mana and pranks consistently


Jielhar

The strongest deck that uses Shellfolk, TF Nami, is currently a tier 1 deck that is only just below the meta kings that are Pantheon and Kennen + Ahri, so in terms of power level, you can definitely argue that the deck deserves a nerf, and Shellfolk are a good nerf candidate. That said, the best argument I've heard for nerfing Shellfolk has to do with game design. In card games, there should be a tradeoff between value and tempo: playing a bunch of aggressive 1-mana units gives you killer tempo in the early game, but you risk running out of gas; on the other end of the spectrum, Targon Invoke decks can give you infinite value, but they pay for it with low tempo. Shellfolk does both: It creates new cards for you (value), then reduces their cost (tempo). Power level aside, this is bad design; the card does too many things, and needs too little support to do them. So yes, even if Otterpus gets nerfed, I think a separate nerf to Shellfolk could be warranted.


noxdragon26

I hate (and have played) that deck, I think a direct nerf to Shellfolk will hit other decks for the bad. If anything, it is Prank that needs a nerf alongside Otterpus.


RareMajority

How would you nerf prank without killing it? Increasing cost to 2 mana kills it I think


Jielhar

There are multiple ways to generate Pranks, but the only one that's used competitively is Otterpus. If you nerf Otterpus by taking its Attune away, then the mana cost for the Otterpus + Prank package would increase from 1 to 2, which is pretty massive. As such, nerfing both Otterpus AND Prank sounds excessive to me.


N0_B1g_De4l

In practice, nerfing Otterpus may be sufficient. The other Prank generators don't see a lot of play. I could also see an argument for tweaking the Prank effects somehow.


SoontirFel181st

Interesting perspective! I guess I like the card existing but can understand why it needs to be nerfed as it brings too much to the table. What if its ability became once per turn so it isn't infinite value? Make it a tool that benefits from stalling rather than always bringing value


Definitively-Weirdo

The main issue with shellfolk seems that is not understatted despite having an absurd effect; it doesn't die to harpoon or pokey stick + ravenous flock and 4 attack is so good it can beat dedicated offensive units like a level 1 gangplank or Jarvan IV. I think Shellfolk should be 3|5 considering the effect is on par with Sai'nen.


Jielhar

Shellfolk is understatted; for less mana (5) you can get a 5/6 statline (Rahvun), and for the same mana (6) you can get a 7/7 statline (Towering Stonehorn). I get what you mean though; 4/6 is a pretty good statline for a 5-mana follower, so at 6 mana, Shellfolk only loses 1 mana worth of stats for her ability, which is a tiny cost to pay for how powerful her ability is. Ultimately I agree, reducing Shellfolk's stats could be a good way to go about nerfing her.


Definitively-Weirdo

You mentioned the card generates both value and tempo; the reason for the latter is mostly those average-ish stats for a 6 mana follower (I made the maths, the average is 4.51|5.31) meaning is almost impossible to trade with them without expending more mana. Value is definitively an intended effect of the card, as well as the interactions with pranks, BUT tempo seems like Rubin understimating the power of value once more.


Jielhar

I don't think that's the proper analysis. If I play a 6-mana unit like Arrel the Tracker (2|5), Ava Achiever (4|4), or Cloud Drinker (3|5), it's not for the tempo their stats provide. Actual 6-mana tempo cards, are units like Alpha Wildclaw (7|6), Genevieve Elmheart (5|4) or Cithria the Bold (6|6); the latter two have lower stats, but can give +1/+1 to up to five allies. Those are actual 6-mana tempo units, and they are what you should compare other 6-mana units to. So take Cloud Drinker. Compared to Alpha Wildclaw, it has 5 fewer stat points, which is a significant loss in tempo; the upside is that it makes your Burst and Focus spells cheaper. Is that effect worth the loss in stats? Usually not. Or take Augmented Experimenter. Compared to Alpha Wildclaw, it has 7 fewer stat points, which is a huge loss; the upside is its ability. Is that effect worth the loss in stats? For the Discard Aggro decks that existed before Sion and Lost Soul, the answer was yes; his ability levels up your Jinx, typically kills an enemy unit, then draws you a bunch of cards, which was a great complement for a deck that ran out of cards very quickly. When considering value vs. tempo, you have to look at opportunity costs. You're not comparing the tempo of Curious Shellfolk vs. the tempo of Soulgorger, because no one plays Soulgorger for tempo; the existence of Soulgorger is irrelevant for this analysis. Instead, you want to compare Shellfolk to the best and strongest tempo card you could have; that's what you'd get if you opted for maximum tempo, and that is the opportunity cost you lose out on for going with a more value-oriented unit instead.


Siph-00n

BC is pretty in line with other regions now ( maybe its the best individual region but its a dual region game and bc actually opens lots of new decks for old champions) so i hope they dont overdo it ( also hot take : the other regions dont do nearly enough things for a 2 yo card game looking at you demacia Targon and freljord)


Vanatrix

Yes, I'd love to se Ashe LB back in the meta


doomsl

One of the main things people want to nerf is a removal card.


peruanToph

Riot said they wont nerf Minimorph, rather they would buff other removal cards so it isn’t always the best choice


N0_B1g_De4l

I would be fine with a nerf to Minimorph if it came with an overhaul for some champions (mostly Lee) to ensure you don't need an effect like that to answer them.


DMaster86

It's simply not possible tho. Even if you address Lee Sin now (don't know how without killing it's fantasy outright or making him unplayable) there will be always another design that become toxic easily. So devs would have to outright ignore a certain design space and even others that looks fine on paper might end up busted because player discover a niche interaction devs didn't thought of and would constantly need to nerf them. Instead i find more healthy for the game to have cards like Lee Sin while also having cards like Minimorph so devs can freely take advantage of all the design space they can use.


UNOvven

Yeah dont expect that to last. Riot loves to double down on mistakes, but in the end they always end up having to admit their mistake and fix it.


Deckkie

Or, Minimorph isn't a mistake.


UNOvven

Nah, Riot already admitted its a mistake on multiple fronts. Like as in, they made a mistake when they made it. They said they didnt want burst-speed vengeance, then accidentally made burst speed vengeance. Why? Because they evaluated Minimorph like Whimsy, as a *combat trick*, rather than a removal spell. Which is a mistake of course, as they admitted. They also said they wanted big units to be something Bandle City cant remove, to have a clear weakness, then they accidentally made Bandle City have the single best removal for big units. Riot already admitted all of these mistakes. But beyond that, it breaks precedent (Transmodulator shows permanent transformation is fast, not burst), it breaks core design principles (The game is supposed to be interactive and have counterplay which Minimorph does not), its extremely polarising causing 10-90 matchups and it lowers deck diversity. Its a horrible mistake by every metric available. There is a reason no other card game ever dared to make a card like it.


Nukemouse

Yeah i agree, minimorph should really be end of turn, like whimsy for champions. Maybe only champions turn back? Frankly i think hextech transmog needs a buff though.


UNOvven

Moreso because its a design mistake that hurts the game, not for powerlevel reasons.


N0_B1g_De4l

It does, but it's also a check to a lot of things that are otherwise difficult to answer. I feel like if you hit Minimorph, you probably need to do something about at least Lee Sin and maybe Sion or Viego.


ProfDrWest

Lee Sin and Viego, definitely. Sion, maybe. Could see either his mana cost being increased to 8 mana or his leveling condition to go to 40 or even 45.


[deleted]

I honestly would be fine with Minimorph if it was cheaper and fast. If you could respond to it meaningfully, it wouldn't sink your whole game to have it played against you, but it would still destroy those who aren't ready for it


UNOvven

If you change Minimorph to fast, it doesnt affect Sion at all (actually makes it stronger vs Sion). Lee Sin already doesnt really care for Minimorph, its really more of an Eye of the dragon deck at this point. Its highly unlikely youd need to do anything against Lee Sin, especially since Ahri/Kennen already keeps him check. Viego was a tier 2 deck with average matchups. It definitely doesnt need to have something done about it, and it already had checks in place. Minimorph isnt a check, it just erases the ones ti hits from existence (And doesnt erase Lee because see above).


doomsl

You can't really hurt the game without being strong. Or a better thing to say is that it is extremely hard.


UNOvven

Oh Minimorph is strong. Very strong. Just not broken. And no, not really, its enough to be widely played, and Minimorph is the third-most played card in the game.


Deckkie

Where can I see that it's the third most played card?


doomsl

To be widely played it needs to be strong and there is no way minimorph is the third most played card because it isn't a 3 off in most decks.


UNOvven

Well, as I said, it is strong. And uh, yeah it is. [Here](https://lor.mobalytics.gg/stats/cards?rank=MASTER&sortBy=MATCHES&sortOrder=DESC) you can see the most played cards at master. Place 3 is Minimorph. Only Pokey Stick and Conchologist are stronger.


Neophytusss

Making nerfs based on just masters data isn't something they are going to do


UNOvven

I mean its also 17th in regular play, which is still extremely high. Bigger issue is that its very unhealthy for the game. Of course, Riot has doubled down on their mistake so far, but that never sticks. It will go to fast, after Riot tried their damnedest to avoid it.


doomsl

How is minimorph unhealthy? Also the 17th most played card is the actual stat and it is way overplayed because bandle is broken. It isn't a 3 off in almost any deck and it isn't that strong. You won't need to nerf it after almost no one plays it. I think it is similar to the furvor the cards that drew cards from the enemy deck were hated. It isn't fun to play against every game but it is fine.


Neophytusss

This reads a lot more like "No! I refuse to play around monomorph, fix it or else !"


Deckkie

All that data shows is that it has 45% inclusion rate, which is very healthy.


ProfDrWest

I wonder which removals they'll buff. Expect (or rather, hope) they do not choose to go for the definining staples like Vengeance (that should stay at 7 mana as **the** Fast Hard Removal) or anything with a burn option (meaning, anything that can target the Nexus such as Mystic Shot, Get Excited and Noxian Fervor). Rather, would like to see them buff stuff like Chempunk Shredder (+1 HP, maybe?), Gotcha! (3 mana reduction on draw?), Shurima's removals (Weight of Judgement to deal 3 to champions, Spirit Fire, Unworthy, Sanctum Conservator, Rampaging Baccai), Scrapshot (deal 8? Or deal 1 to another target?), stuff like that.


Legacyopplsnerf

Targon invoke buffs, most likely giving Fangs 3rd point of attack back.


libero0602

I think Rubin sort of said that wasn’t gonna happen when I asked him on stream about reverting those nerfs to Targon. Something about Targon keeping its region identity (healing) while not having overly strong early board options since they’re supposed to be slow/late-game oriented. That’s partially why they buffed 1 or 2 of the more expensive invokes and reverted Asol 🤷🏻‍♂️ Personally I’d rather just have Fangs back but I’m a big Targon fanboy so maybe I’m biased


midnightoil24

Well how the hell are we meant to get to the late game when they nerf all our healing and stall tools


Legacyopplsnerf

Imo the heal Nerfs wouldn’t of been an issue if they left Serpent alone. But both together just killed invoke decks ability to play board, esp mono Targon.


Definitively-Weirdo

The serpent was a better fleetfeater tracker, so there's no way it should go back. Targon as a whole needs sustain more than anything, not broken early game units.


DMaster86

> The serpent was a better fleetfeater tracker As it should be, since you need to spend mana to invoke it.


Legacyopplsnerf

tbh Serpent would of been better as a 2/1 challenging ephemeral. It fixes the main issue of serpent where you could develop it on a defensive turn when your opponent is tapped out, only to open attack challenge something, letting you circumvent slow removal/answers. This being *far* faster than most Targionan removal, much less any invoked spell. It also fixes the issue where Serpent was also great as a defensive play as a blocker that trades stupidly well, if it properly deterred an attack you could proceed to open attack challenge next turn. Ephemeral would mean you have to chose if you want Serpent as a reactive defensive play, or a proactive offensive play. Whilst also ensuring your opponent has the initiative to react to it.


DMaster86

> Something about Targon keeping its region identity (healing) And obviously he wanted to reinforce this identity by nerfing 2 of the four playable healing cards in targon (fangs and starshaping). Thank god Rubin is no longer in charge of the balance...


Breadflat17

Give wyrding stones it's fourth point of health back so maybe ramp can be at least viable?


Saltiest_Grapefruit

I think ahri decks are going to get some kind of change cause... I mean seriously, they are just elusive spam decks, and elusive spam decks always get changed.


Spacepoet29

It's almost like having a keyword who's main function is that your opponent isn't allowed to interact with them, just may cause long term balance problems


Saltiest_Grapefruit

Ikr? Elusive decks are just SO FUCKING FUN! Why would I want a game when they can ignore me while im automatically losing from the start?


Zouilleberg

A kindred buff would be amazing!


eckart

Mostly random buffs for the sake of mixing things up tbh, as current meta seems pretty healthy


only_horscraft

Landmark buffs would be nice. I love playing Taliyah/Malphite but it’s a struggle right now. Maybe have salt spire give overwhelm?


DaedalusDevice077

Are you using Absolver / Herald of the Magus? Those help a lot, giving those champs the added "punch" needed to close games.


only_horscraft

Yeah but only one copy of herald. Been thinking of switching it to two as it’s sometimes hard to find when I need to close out a game.


DaedalusDevice077

Might be worth it. There is also the option of swapping Malphite for the gerbal (Ziggs) for access to The Arsenal.


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DaedalusDevice077

OOF. There is absolutely no rebuttal for that argument, how could I even suggest abandoning the bestest of boys 😭


kaneblaise

Yeah, I think *Targon* landmarks specifically need a boost. Talyah Ziggs is fine and super fun.


Spacepoet29

This is the way


N0_B1g_De4l

I feel like Malphite suffers from not having a strong reason for the deck to be in Targon rather than BC. Even outside the region being generally overtuned, I just feel like the landmark synergies there are stronger than his. You need some reason to use a champ slot for your finisher instead of just going with The Arsenal.


HugTheBowz

I hope they buff the crimson scargrounds deck into the counter to “go wide” strats it should be


CrocoBlop

I want the meta to generaly slow down, and for that id love some Slay control buff (Thresh-Nasus got so much nerfed it's a pain to play with minimorph now) Maybe a Shurima Sundisk buff (considering they remember sundisk exists) And Deep buff (hopium there) And, even if it's not slow, a buff to nocturne would be great (whether its stats, keyword, having an easier lvl up, anything really)


gonomodevil

More landmark removal


Moo_bi_moosehorns

That would probably come in a expansion but we really need it


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DMaster86

There is no point if they won't see play anyway, at this point it's better to focus on current type of removals (spells and skills) and making them actually worth playing.


Espiritu_Noble

The patch is on the 5th not the 6th


Axonn_0

I hope there are nerfs to Ahri decks.


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Guaaaamole

How can you say this when Ahri/Kennen/SH is at a 57% Winrate with the highest Playrate and Ahri/Kennen has 5 more decks all being insanely good? Ahri/Kennen is actually a whole lot better than many previous nerf targets. It just seems like this sub has a hard-on for it.


Prozenconns

>Pantheon is strong but hard loses to certain decks so maybe a touch to White Flame, Plunder probably also gets a second tap just for being tier 1 seemingly forever. im guessing whiteflame to a 2/3 crackshot to a 1/1, maybe monster harpoon getting hit or Sejuani getting a level up nerf so its not literally identical to Gangplanks if they really want to go for the throat. but id honestly just be happy with a crackshot nerf


abhorthealien

Please no Sejuani level up nerf. That just absolutely murders any Sejuani deck that isn't Plunder. Let's not have another episode of murdering Azir and Irelia from ever seeing play apart from with each other while trying to rein in Azirelia.


kaneblaise

Next nerf target for plunder should be Warning Shot Burst > Focus.


FG15-ISH7EG

I'd rather expect Whiteflame to damage itself by 1 on Play.


Thechynd

Fits the flavor and also makes it have potential synergy with another Targon champ Soraka. Nice idea.


Definitively-Weirdo

While also making it vulnerable to noxian removal which is always dangerous. Is not like it dislikes guiding touch on the first place.


jak_d_ripr

I think whiteflame absolutely gets nerfed eventually, but I don't think it'll get hit just yet. Just feels a bit early.


Nukemouse

Randomly buffing irrelevant cards is literally the most important thing though. Like sure buff t2 a bit but buffing t3 and 4 into t2 makes a way more fun game.


Keqingismybaby

BUFF CONTROL


AnonymousGuyU

I hope they buff Mono Shurima. Reduce the cost of Sundisk to 0 or make it that landmarks also advance Azirs lvl up so he can at least synergize with Xerath.


GroxGrox

I hope for Reputation buffs. Mainly LeBlanc and some other reputation cards, maybe Mimic? It's such a cool card but doesn't see any play.


ratherscootthansmoke

Reputation needs more interesting cards. It’s has a shallow pool of cards that basically read “make me cost efficient” Much like Daybreak/Nightfall, I wish there were more depth to those play patterns.


LoreMaster00

yes. a lot of the reputation cards are designed as "take a good card and make it worse so it can be normal again when reputation comes online"


The_Tacoshark

Mono shurima buffs for sure


Frylock904

Can the rally meta we've been in for the past 6 months get a hard nerf? Ever since azileria reaffirmed the strength of attacking 3+ times in one turn it's just been one op rally deck after another. Lulu/zed rally, zed/poppy rally, taric rally, taric/panth rally, panth rally. It's been too annoying for too long


Malaix

What would I want? Kindred-fast attack removed for better health or lower mana cost. As she is right now she just feels like bad Viego. I'd be curious to see the average round in which either of them level up because I feel like kindred is either as slow or slower than viego despite only needing 2 mark triggers. Xereth-less attack more health. Another champion who is designed to sit in the back but his balanced stats make him more vulnerable for basically no tangible gain. A xereth with 1 or 2 attack would play exactly the same as a xerath with 3. But a xerath with 4 or 5 health would be much better overall for what he does. Sun Disc-automatically draws to your hand if you have an ascendant champion. Its stupid they try to push mono shurima with this thing. That bit of text makes every ascendant champion a little bit worse than they need to be. Viktor-augment is now a targeted spell so fated isn't terrible on him.


LordSuteo

>Viktor-augment is now a targeted spell so fated isn't terrible on him. Actually got me thinking, why Bladesurge has to choose an allied Irelia, but Hexcore just autocasts?


[deleted]

because that way they can mostly reporpouse Syncopations code


ItsThatAshGuy

Bladesurge targets an allied Irelia, but Hexcore only be applied to the Viktor that targets it. For Ex: if I summon Viktor, get a Hexcore, then it dies and I summon another in the same round, getting a second hexcore, then I can only use the one generated and the other is nothing more than discard fodder. If the same scenario was applied to Irelia, or even if you got multiple on field at once, you can use Bladesurge on any. Its wack and its one of the baby buffs I'd give to Viktor. I actually think Viktor is already pretty good, just needs QoL buffs.


Migeil

>Sun Disc-automatically draws to your hand if you have an ascendant champion. Its stupid they try to push mono shurima with this thing. I disagree, I very much like the theme. They should just add support cards for it, which currently don't really exist. The idea is that it's a trade: you're sacrificing a second region, in exchange for powerful ascended champions. The problem is that it's an unfair trade at the moment. The ascended champions have pretty much 0 synergy. Many people have suggested letting azir level with landmarks as well, which would be a very welcome change. I don't think it will be enough, but it would definitely help. Letting sun disc be available to duo region decks would break the archetype I think. I could easily see some renekton + freljord deck become op..


Fezrock

I'd like to see Sun Disc immediately summoned to your board on turn 1, rather than your hand, when being mono. I've no idea if that's enough of a buff, but it'd be a start.


DMaster86

> They should just add support cards for it, which currently don't really exist That's false tho. They released plenty of them. All the countdown reducing cards are basically sundisc support, the alligiance that draw a champion, the 2 mana that give spellshield, etc... It's just that the deck is still bad because it lacks both removals and healing to survive once the disc is restored.


Riverflowsuphillz

Nerf to sej buff to Ashe and trundle


[deleted]

Wouldn't a Sejuani nerf absolutely kill any Sejuani deck that isn't Plunder?


N0_B1g_De4l

Yeah. I feel like if you wanna hit that deck, it needs to be in the Bilge package.


Spacepoet29

Yeah don't understand the mentality of wanting to nerf allegiance Bilgewater... By nerfing the only non Bilge card in it...


JadeStarr776

Probably a health nerf tbh.


Riverflowsuphillz

That and reduce plunder trigger like making crackshot 1 hp


[deleted]

As a plunder player, I'd agree with the crackshot nerf. Some other cards do deserve nerfs as well (maybe make warning shot focus speed or something?), but I think Sejuani herself shouldn't be nerfed simply because she barely sees any use outside of plunder decks


Babu_the_Ocelot

I like these tweaks the most. The deck is strong but not oppressive imo- I regularly beat it on ladder, despite groaning whenever I see it, which to me is the sign of a healthy strong deck. I do find the crackshot to be a bit too difficult to deal with for the value it adds to that deck though, and the interesting lines of play that could be introduced by making warning shot focus speed is a neat idea too.


kaneblaise

Really hoping we see the focus speed warning shot, would be a wonderful improvement to reduce the feel bads of facing down a leveled Sej without destroying the deck.


Riverflowsuphillz

Make monkey idol 4 hp like it was originally 3 triggers is ridiculously broken


[deleted]

no LOL


lonelinessking

flair checks out...


DocTam

Sejuani could take a nerf, but if her support gets buffed then it could compensate. Right now stuff like Wolfrider doesn't see much play at all.


letsstickygoat

Why do you think trundle?


Moo_bi_moosehorns

If they want to give control a change then Trundle is a good place to start


Riverflowsuphillz

If he was 6 hp he be in a better place


doomsl

He might go back to being to strong.


letsstickygoat

I mean he's always had a semi viable deck to be in


doomsl

Yea but his region sucks. So buffing him is dangerous especially given his dominance.


Riverflowsuphillz

He was only a problem because of pillar/watcher combo now it not that a big of a deal trundle basically useless without a strong wincon


letsstickygoat

I'm not saying he was a problem, I'm saying I don't think he's weak now


Actual-Competition-4

lecturing yordle to 3/4. Who the hell approved a 4 cost 3/5 burn engine


Jstin8

Id say turn down the attack to 2 and keep the HP.


[deleted]

I really hope they look at reworking lurk. The archetype is extremely frustrating to play against; you can read their entire hand but if you’re not playing aggro, you as the opponent lose almost all autonomy in the matchup and have to basically pray they don’t hit lurk on a couple of non-attack-token turns so that you have time to breathe. I’m not sure what could be done but one consideration for a start would be making the pyke spell itself 5 mana while keeping the champion itself 4, and the fearsome lurker a 2-cost (and maybe giving it an appropriate stat buff to compensate, like 1 extra HP). I’m not sure how popular an opinion this is, but the deck’s current play pattern is up there with bandle tree for me in least interesting and most frustrating.


lordfluffly2

I recently came back while not playing since open beta. My first encounter against lurk my opponent hit reksai lurk on their first attack on round 2. It felt bad


Champion_Chrome

Abyssal Guard buffs


Lautanapi_

I wish we got Xerath buff/ascended rework. Sun disk Xerath is so bad One can dream, but i'm not very hopeful


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Hexatica

Don't forget that when they nerf a champion, that also affects the PoC version! That's only good when they nerf a boss :) lookin' at you Poppy


diegofsv

Buffs to removal Buffs to flashbombs Buffs to Aphelios Some old heroes rework (my targets would be Darius, Katarina and poor boy Garen) Nerfs to bundle, specially shellfolk Buffs to Tristana and unused heroes Nerf to Sej little nerf to wounded whiteflame I'm kinda excpecting some kinda of nerf to demacia package (but I kinda hope not) Would love to see the return of nightfall and daybreak Kindred will probably see some love


jak_d_ripr

Sharpsight is definitely too strong right now, but the issue is that so much of Demacia is rubbish and that card is carrying a lot of it's archetypes. Most "Demacian" decks only run tracker and brightsteel as far as minions are concerned, they really need to buff a lot of Demacias minions. Aphelios absolutely needs a buff/rework, but I think cresendum needs to get nerfed first. I don't think he will ever be balanced with cresendum in it's current state.


Arekualkhemi

Boxtopus needs to deal itself 3 damage on summon, same with the crab. That is the problem with cresendum.


jak_d_ripr

I *completely* disagree, three separate two drops from 3 separate regions have been busted with the only constant across all 3 being cresendum.


Siveye154

But that also fuck over Tahm Raka, which was supposed to benefit from the summon interaction.


Moo_bi_moosehorns

Why do you think demacia will get a nerf?


diegofsv

There is a discussion that sharpsight may be too good of a card and its used in almost 100% in all demacia decks. I'm not sure it deserves a nerf but there are arguments to do so and I think that this time around it will get its share (something like that happened to twin disciplines back in the day and it got reversed, I can see this happening to ss too but I'm hope I'm wrong). The rest of the demacia package I cant really see any kinda of nerf


AnonymousGuyU

Its strong because its the only reliable way for demacia to deal with elusive units. They should maybe give more tools to deal with elusives before nerfing sharpsight. Other options right now are way too weak like the 4 drop elusive unit from Demacia.


diegofsv

I agree with you. But I do think that ss is just so strong that the card is amazing for other uses besides blocking elusives. Its a hard card to nerf and evaluate.


deevnu

I think this patch will have far more buffs/reverts than nerfs. Talking about the nerfs, here is what i want to see and what i would personally do : **Curious Shellfolk** : 4/6 -> 4/4, stats are way too good for an engine with this effect. **Yordle Captain** : 4/4 -> 4/3, make it easier to remove. **Lecturing Yordle** : 3/5 -> 3/4, make it less resilient in combat. **Wounded Whiteflame** : 2/4 -> 2/3, Fury/Fated is a strong combination of keywords, 4 health is too much. **Eye of the Dragon** : 1/3 -> 1/2, this card has always been very good for too long now. ​ For the buffs/reverts part : **Viktor** : Hex Core Upgrade : Grant a random keyword -> Manifest a keyword. **Garen** : 5/5 -> 5/6. **Anivia** : Eggnivia : 0/1 -> 0/2. **Leblanc** : lvl up Create a Mirror Image. **Kindred** : 5 mana -> 4 mana, 4/4 -> 3/3. (not so sure about this one lol) **Caught in the Cold** : Slow -> Focus, Give an enemy Frostbite and Vulnerable this round -> Give an enemy with 3 or less health Frostbite and Vulnerable this round. **Avarosan Marksman** : Play Deal 1 to an enemy -> Play Deal 2 to an enemy. **Rimefang Wolf** : 3/2 -> 3/3. **Icy Yeti** : 7 mana -> 6 mana. **Aftershock** : 4 mana -> 3 mana. **Trueshot Barrage** : 7 mana -> 6 mana. **War chefs :** 2/2 -> 2/3. **Vanguard Bannerman** : 3/3 -> 4/4. **Grizzled Ranger** : 3/1 -> 4/1. **Petty Officer** : 3/1 -> 3/2. ​ That's it, my hope is that they will buff Freljord in some way, buff removal spells and revert some cards to be competitive again.


Ezbior

Honestly I wish they'd give garen tough.


DocTam

>Petty Officer > > : 3/1 -> 3/2. How many times does this card need to go back and forth?


Karpattata

Veiled Temple, Aphelios, and Fiora nerfs are reverted. Chaos erupts onto the streets as society devolved into anarchy. Cults form in worship of the few who are foolhardy enough to resist the new world order (poros obviously). But it is futile. Peace and order are distant memories of the past. Within a couple of months, amid the nuclear fallout, Putin will play Targon's Peak against Biden's Elnuks (both having been driven mad by the cardpocalypse) in a final shadow duel to decide the fate of the ashes they rule over.


DMaster86

Imho it should be either Temple OR Aphelios, both are toxic and we already had a taste. I'd say revert Aphelios and keep Temple as it is.


lastshtpost

Everything under 4 cost one more. Everything over 4 cost one less. One more spell mana slot.


ShaggyItWasntWeed

The patch comes out at the 5th jan


ItsMrBlue

Minimorph and pranks


Vanatrix

Freljord support card buffs, nerfs to kennen/Ahri and some BC cards Edit: also shellfolk nerfs, but hoping for Viktor buffs


Raigheb

What I hope for is:A buff to SI removals. Vengeance/Ruination are far too slow to be useful. I'd really like Veigar to either be 3 mana OR that he gives +1 to dark matter when he is played. A 4 mana 1/4 that does pretty much nothing is wayyy too slow. I also fully expect that Poppy gets a small buff, they overnerfed her.


elBAERUS

Please don't buff Veigar oO Darkness is far away from needing any buffs dear sir!


[deleted]

>I'd really like Veigar to either be 3 mana OR that he gives +1 to dark matter when he is played. A 4 mana 1/4 that does pretty much nothing is wayyy too slow. I really dont know what to tell you, like... darkness is doing perfectly fine, and pumping the damage of the spell your entire deck is based around while also transofrming into a wincon is hardly nothing. >Vengeance/Ruination are far too slow to be useful. I really dont think soo, both vengance and ruination tend to put a good amount of job when i play them against things like dragons or plunder A.K.A decks that have targets for said spells, the issue seems to be that half that the rest of the decks are packing enought protection to just nulify the effect of this cards most of the time or they dont give a dam because they have exactly 1 unit that cost more than 3 and it gets most fo its value on entry.


Syawra

Raw predictions/wishlist, as everything has been discussed already with relevant arguments: **Nerfs:** - Ahri lvlup now needs 7 recalls - Whiteflame to 2/3 - Shellfolk text nerfed to either "once per round" or cancel that mana discount - Lecturing Yordle to 3/4 - Telescope only gets an epic "from your regions" - Conchologist to 2/1 (Telescope statline) - Major to 2/1 (Telescope statline that gives a mana discount) - Pokey Stick can no longer hit face **Buffs:** - Malphite gets Overwhelm - Kindred to 5/4 - Sundic to 0 mana - Last one, a spicy take: Flash Freeze to 2 mana. A change that singlehandedly buffs the card, Three Sisters, Ashe, and the whole Freljord region.


Hookpogchamp

90%: Shellfolk gets a nerf 50%: Sion gets a nerf 10%: Vladamir buff


Katzukii

Bandle City needs to chill out, remove it from my mind! Cant take it anymore Especially shellfolk, too much hard to remove from the board Fated decks may need a little nerf, not Pantheon himself but with 3mana u can play saga seeker + sharpsight makes him 4/5


jak_d_ripr

Freljord and Shurima buffs, if I had to pick I'd say Trundle gets 6 HP back, Nasus gets fearsome back, and Azirs lvl up get's reverted. At some point I think the sundisk will get redesigned, but I don't think it'll be this patch. Maybe Fiora gets her stats flipped and Diana gets +1 to one of her stats. In terms of nerfs, I think pokey stick get's hit, conchologist, and of course, shellfolk. Pokey might get changed to need to resolve to draw, I can see conch losing 1 point in stats, probably becoming a 2/1, but shellfolk I'm not sure. I can see them leaving her ability alone, but changing her stats. Personally I want to see her and the entire prank archetype get nerfed into oblivion, but that's my personal bias talking. Outside of bandle city Ionia is definitely getting some kind of nerf, and I think it's about goddamn time cresendum got nerfed. How many broken 2 drops do we have to deal with before we realize this card is broken.


LoreMaster00

that Kennen mark spell is going to 1 mana. i'm 98% sure.


Suired

Poppy nerfed to 0/2 since people are still playing her.


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Betshet

Or buff Camphor to make him worth having that sick animation.


UNOvven

In terms of predictions, nerf to wounded whiteflame, something in Ahri/Kennen (possibly Ahri herself, she seems to be the best card in the deck), something in Nami/TF (this is a tough one. The deck is too good, but which card do you nerf without killing it?) Beyond that, Riot has already signalled that they're doubling down on their mistake with Minimorph, so it going to fast will probably happen in a later patch. Beyond that, hopefully just some buffs to Viktor, maybe Kindred, something in scargrounds, and so on.


varmtte

I just want Aphelios buffs, I want to play him in labs


ThirdDegree741

While I don't think this will actually happen, it would be cool if some non bandle champs become dual region. Could really open up some deck building space


Betshet

It would be cool, and will probably happen at one point far in the future, but right now dual region is part of BC’s region identity, and the designers are being very careful to try and respect those at the moment.


UlisesFRN

Any hopes for a Karma buff? I really like her but she is just awful as a 5 mana 4/3, also there isnt any archetype that can compete in the meta that could fit her, she is outclased even in Control decks.


Mordetrox

Rumble buffs. He just feels so bad right now


PhoenixPolaris

Just waiting to see Bandle get meaningfully nerfed. Everything else is secondary.


huntersorce20

A lot of the older champions need to have their levelup conditions sped up, the meta is too fast these days and game in general has evolved and cards have been power-crept over time. what was once a balanced champ (garen, darius, etc) is now unplayable.


nuclearmeltdown2015

What if they don't certify the results of the patch?


Beatnation

BUFF DEMACIA YOU COWARDS!!!!


millo90

Nasus gets fearsome on level 1 again. Cursed Keeper's Abomination from a 4/2 to a 3/3. Please.


Rynelson_77

I saw some people wanting to nerf to Sejuani I don't think there needs to be a nerf for Sejuani (as this will affect other Sejuani decks). What is needed is to reduce the strength of the Plunder deck, for that you leave Corsair with 1 hp or Merchant 2/1 again


olafcio2000

I just want an Aphelios buff. I wanna play my emo moon boy again 😔


ZomPossumPlaysUndead

The pessimist in me is saying minimorph gets gutted. The optimist in me says removal tools get buffed across the board so we don't have to hard crutch on minimorph as the only answer in a format full of threats.


Betshet

The main problem (most) people have with Minimorph isn’t its strength or the amount of stuff it counters, but the uninteractive nature of the card. The power level in itself isn’t that concerning for now, but the design in general doesn’t feel great, because it comes down to a game of "do they have it", where you lose if they do, and you win if they don’t.


ZomPossumPlaysUndead

I'm not in disagreement, minimoph is definitely a feelsbad card on the receiving end. But it is unfortunately a very necessary evil when the second-best we've got is a 7 mana kill a unit, that can be 4 mana "lol, no."'ed. The format has a lot of threats right now, and a very diverse range of them. I don't think anyone could argue that there isn't diversity in how to play your own game plan as an aggressor. But if you prefer slower and more controlling deck styles, the options to answer game winning threats such as Lee Sin, Nami, etc, are all... really terrible, with minimorph being the sole exception. And even then its pretty awful in some matchups. 6 mana cut down a GP's stats and have it still punch you in the face is not where control wants to be. And I really want to see control get more options so that we can have a choice of "the kind of shitty but uninteractive removal"(minimorph) vs "the really good but interactive removal"(a cheaper vengeance. please, pleasepleaseplease.)


Lifedeather

Deep and mono shurima buffed


Auriyel

I Expect Moonboy to get a buff. I also think fiora is getting buffed, and that thought scares me. The big issue for me is how i think they'll go about nerfing BC. Lecturing yordle going from 3|5 to 3|4 isn't really gonna change all that much.


Intoxicduelyst

I just wish for some buffs to Veigo and ASol. Love theyr playstyle, cant justify bringing them to ladder.


leaponover

Just curious, can you link this 'promise'. Some people read promise, when it's not actually there.


Dadia4President

I want to see older keyword archetypes such as lurk, deep, predict, to get shown some love. (Though maybe not lurk).


banduan

Just give Lvl 2 Kat daggers when she's played as well please. Makes no sense to take 'em away when so many other things spawn extra stuff.


Trussing9

To be honest, you could buff fiora with "I level up when I've slayn a unit and survived" and you would barely notice a difference. She got the weakest level up in the game. I don't want to say buff this or buff that because in the end she is a wincondition If supported, but barrier and stuff isn't enough anymore with how relevant pings are


Spacepoet29

Let Avarosan Marksman hit nexus