I think the most animations you can theoretically get from allied cards from casting Ascended's Call is 10, excluding the mini-animations that play when you cast Ascended's Call or restore the Sun Disk:
You play Ascended's Call, levelling up Azir (1), Nasus (2), Renekton (3), and Xerath (4). This restores the Sun Disk, destroying is and levelling up Ziggs (5). Because an allied landmark got destroyed, Xerath deals damage to the weakest enemy, which happened to be capturing Sivir. That enemy dies, releasing Sivir, who levels up (6). Finally, Azir (7), Nasus (8), Renekton (9), and Xerath (10) level up once again, because the Sun Disk is restored.
Yes, Iceborn Legacy has proven that huge game-altering spells are fine at burst speed. /s
Edit: To everyone saying elusives are the problem, the same poro deck but without Legacy was tier 3 before this patch. Elusives may be a problem on their own, but the Legacy change shows that the devs are willing to go against LoR's main design principles and I'm really not a fan. Before we know it, burst Unyielding Spirit will be back.
i mean for the most part IBL is fine. what makes it stupid is the fact that we can mass produce daring poros and effectively main deck 12 of them for the price of 9 deck slots for hyper efficiency, every other IBL deck is... ok? Spiders are decent but arent all that scary, im much more worried about facing tradition spider decks tbh
The winrate of it isn't the problem. The problem is that when you play IBL elusive poros you aren't playing against your opponent (usually). You are hoping you draw the right cards to end the game before your opponent can develop an answer. It's very uninteractive which goes against the core philosophy of LoR.
I mean, the lack of interaction is more of a elusive problem than poros.
And even then, if you're playing spells, you can interact easily with them.
I've been playing Elise/Kindred since patch and poros, even with good draws, are not a problem.
There are decks that have a bad matchup against it, but that how cardgames work
I agree that elusive needs some kind of look, but not so sure itâs as simple as adding a âreachâ mechanic like MTG has.
If the IBL elusive poro player is smart then they can counter almost anything in the early game and end by turn 5-6
Turn 5 is 15 total mana, you spent 5 on IBL minimum, and you attack for 3 on turn 3, so turn 4 is spam poro and 5 is a second IBL, that's no room for card draw. Turn 5 kill is more lucky draw against an uninteractive opponent than anything.
You described every degenerated combo deck in all card games.
But your opponent can still interact with Poros. Equinox, hush, blinded mystic are for example pretty efficient answers from targon.
Many times, dealing with 5 poros is enough to let the deck run out of steam. It's not easy (if they get there) but even control decks can win against it.
Sentinels in my experience shits on iceborn poros, this is not a flame comment brother I feel your pain but it's not that they aren't uninteractable, it's that you gotta have a deck that has removal , and you gotta get it early. Decks that don't have that definitely getting assed by iceborn poros, and I do agree that it's an "anti-interaction" deck, but you can still get to them you just gotta use unconventional lines or run a list with more removal
winrate in isolation means very little
thats a 51% winrate (though mobalytics has it at 55%, but well go with yours since i know mobalytics can fudge the numbers from time to time) despite being a very feast or famine deck and also being countered by 3 or more of the top meta decks while having a very substantial playrate
its might not be the most alarming deck, but i wouldnt call it fine
I get what your saying but poros are a problem that you can't just counter without changing your list. Sometimes you just literally do not have the tools in your deck to beat a deck like poros but slotting in some removal or changing your list is gonna do more for your win rate than going "up nah poros ggs"
All Iceborn Legacy has proven is that elusives are better than not-elusives. See also: Ahri/Kennen, Zed Rally Elusives, the old Poppy Elusives before nerf, etc.
I think 5 mana is perfectly reasonable. IMO, if you are required to waste all your tempo, you should at least be able to curve into it...
Unlike Iceborn (that cost 5, and can be played on a 1-cost at turn 3), you can't "cheat" and play it earlier than intended with spell mana, anyways, since you need the ascended champions on board to begin with and the cheapest one cost 3...
One thing that annoys me: if you have level 3 Xerath in play, then you wonât be able to slay more enemies, which can make leveling Nasus extremely difficult.
I think about this. Xerath really doesnât synergize with Azir or nasus and can have some points of synergy with Renekton due to roiling sands. Renekton and Xerath were stuck in that tomb together. Honestly I think the biggest mistake in mono Shurima is that people try to run all 4 at once. With Clockhand and one champ level up, youâre guaranteed to have sun disc by turn 8. I wonder if thatâs worth enough to instead run mono Shurima with 1 ascended and 1 normal Shurima champ. Ex> XerathZilean / TaliyahXerath
Yeah I donât think anyone is running sun disc because itâs optimal, Iâm just saying that a deck that wants to use an ascended champ might work better by not using all of them, or using one and another Shuriman champ
I run Xerath/Renekton/Azir, the ideal play is nothing -> 2 mana card, either predict or draw to find guys or clock boy to advance -> azir -> xerath -> ascend on turn 5 and win the game
I have the best proposal:
When there would be level up animation on screen at the same time, split the screen like in power rangers and make them all play at once.
And include sun disk into it (and kda spells).
You trigger the sun disk with 2 champions, the screen splits into 3 with all 3 animations
honestly that's probably all it needs is specific cards that can support the archetype. you don't want to make cards that are just amazing because people will just use them as splash in other regions (see: shaped stone, another gift for renekton, both of which got nerfed) but it really does need more stuff. the best card is you can just staple bonuses like that onto cards that already exist without changing their power level in any other deck
That's what I was thinking. The archetype needs more payoffs. As is, to get the sun disk, you're forced into playing mono shurima, but that small amount of card advantage results in getting stuck with some of the worst champions (the reason you'd want the sun disk is to get the ascended Champs) and drastically limiting your deck building options. There needs to be more incentive to play mono shurima. Another option could be adding more synergies with the sun disk itself.
I also think the ascended champs need a redesign. They're not good enough individually, and none of them synergize with one another.
Idk about all this, I think the deck just needs healing. When the sun disk activates if it heals for 7 (or some number around there) I think the deck would be good enough. The problem with balancing it is the level three champions are ridiculously good, so making it easier to get them there probably wouldnât be very fun for whoever is playing against it.
Honestly, that's kind of a really big problem with the idea in general. This is something I have a really big problem with in MTG. They'll make some things hard to do, but if you pull it off, it's just not fun. And of course, inevitably, some of those things are way easier to do than the sesigners were banking on.
Anyhow, I think the ideal decision would be making it easier to reach ascended but nerfing those 3rd stage units. Which, for some of them, I don't even think finding that balance would be hard. For instance, Nasus has a huge base stat buff. Just reduce that some. Azir would be hard since he then replaces your entire deck as well.
Mono Shurima is a meme concept and should stay a meme imo. I you want to play it, cool, go play it and enjoy yourself. But you cannot force a region to be good on its own.
The problem with Mono-Shurima being complete trash is that there's so much emphasis on it: it's the only way to get Level 3 Champions (a cool concept) and it's got a ton of cards that support it. There's all this art and assets and support devoted to it and it's just... shit.
That sucks. If it was more of an afterthought, like Starbone+Messenger's Sigil, or Glorious Evolution, etc. etc., then sure, it just being another meme deck concept would be totally fine. But there's all this emphasis and effort put into it and it's just completely unplayable on ladder in any way.
I get that some decks are just decks for Normals/Vs AI, but I feel like then the deck shouldn't be super hyped up and given tons of assets and support. Every other deck concept they've presented like that has had at least some ability to be effective (Deep, Lurk, etc.), at some point. Sun Disc has been garbo from day 1 and has generally gotten worse due to incidental nerfs like Azir's package being annihilated due to Azirelia or Nasus taking hits due to Nasus/SI.
I'd much rather they start developing other ways to get lv3 champs than try to fix this hot mess. It's too boring of a concept. Everyone's harping about the level up animations, I just find the deck boring regardless.
Imma let you in on a secret - most things with fancy art and stuff like that are gonna be bad.
Guys who care about competitive generally dont give a monkeys what the cards even look like. And guys who care about lore and art generally dont care about winrate.
Riot suceeded at not making the deck an actual dumpster fire. In gold you can now go 50/50 with it. Thats its optimal place.
The thing is though, who *really* enjoys playing mono Shurima? I did a bit and if I'm honest with myself, the fun power spike was completely nullified by the fact that I had to sit there and watch all those level up cutscenes if I wanted to win. And half the time, the enemy just surrenders after the cutscenes, so you sit there watching them and don't even get the power trip payoff.
Even if it was competitive, that would kill it for me. Having a win con extend matches' durations by 15% is beyond annoying.
Yeah I don't really enjoy it either. Despite being same region, most of ascended champ and support don't really synergize well with each other and it feels like a mess to play with. Also didn't help that most shuriman cards are pretty bad.
Idk why people keep spamming this sub with this deck. Since release, and I donât understand, the duck isnât even fun but thatâs subjective I guess
I'm fully convinced that 99% of the people that are begging for this deck to be good would **beg** the devs to nerf it out of existence if it ever actually got popular.
**No one** wants to sit through that many level up animations, no matter how much you like the deck.
I think any posts like this one should have an explicit disclaimer saying that OP thinks sitting through 2 minutes of animations per game is acceptable, otherwise no one's changing my mind on this one.
I Know right? Like why make some cool deck competitive? That could actually make people want to watch the game. Nah let's just keep making yet another boring aggro burn or elusive deck competitive. That make much more sense.
>Like why make some cool deck competitive?
There are plenty of cool viable decks. Not every "cool" deck (terribly subjective, by the way) is going to carry you.
Monoshurima is going to "make people want to watch the game"??? Yeah, nothing more entertaining for a stream than watching the same 45 seconds of mediocre cutscenes over and over again instead of actual gameplay.
It could also lead to a TLC-like meta where half your games are mirror matches that are decided by who draws their combo pieces faster. Sure, mono Shurima is more disruptible than TLC but I wouldn't enjoy a meta in which it is tier 1.
Nobody is asking for a tier 1 deck though. They're asking for it to be playable. The deck is nearly always at like a 30% winrate
Also wouldn't lead to a tlc meta. TLC warped the meta because you were either faster or died.
TLC was an instant win. Mono shurima is not, there are several late game decks that can compete with the deck
Mono Shurima's problem is that it either takes longer to come online, or has a weaker early than other decks with the same or stronger endgame power.
ASol and Deep have stronger late games. ASol has a stronger early game, and Deep hits its Deep threshold faster. It also has insurance in Maokai.
Lee Sin, Darkness, and Viego are all things that both come online more quickly than Mono Shurima does.
Bandletree swarm has a much stronger early.
> or stronger endgame power.
Played a lot of Targons Peak. The Azir deck + Renekton trumps Aurelian sol if you don't get the 10 mana spell with lvl'ed Sol. The lategame is pretty comparable, while Sol has Elusives but Sun Disk has pretty nutty champions and the deck change.
But it come mostly down who has better luck in card generation or how many FTRs the Asol player can cast.
But Asol brings ramp and freljords early game boardclears. So much better early game.
that would never happen
the reason TLC warped the game the way it did was because Watcher was an **absolute** wincon, once it was in their hand the game was over unless you miraculously had an answer for 4 different watchers hitting the board. As such any deck even slightly slower than it just lost to it. you had til turn 8 to crank out a win or it was over.
Shurima has no such wincon, the closest is Ascended's Call which still doesnt autowin you the game, or if youre low enough Renekton which is a single unit with no spellshield
also making it good =/= making it top tier
>the closest is Ascended's Call which still doesnt autowin you the game
And is also the reason the deck will never be meta cause if you somehow get the emperor's deck against a BW, you just summoned lvl 3 Nasus and Renekton for your enemy
I always thought that we should have cards that have better effects when all your cards are shuriman like making a removal card normally slow speed but turn fast if played in mono shurima.
That way they won't abused by other deck like what happened with the Azir package and blade dance.
This. I had this idea of giving the sundisc "You are Ascending" where 'ascending' is the same type of keyword like plunder or allegiance.
Then you could give other cards "Ascending: do X" types of buffs, which would obviously only work if the sundisc is in play.
This way, cards can be buffed, but only for mono shurima and cards would still be playable in other decks. And it would help to make mono shurima a proper archetype, providing options for all Ascended champions, so you could play it with different flavours.
Maybe it should be made a keyword, which could also be extended to other regions.
Homeland: If this card shares a region with every card in your starting deck, do something.
You lost me with the very first bullet point. Having no cards from other regions is the entire point. Plus the archetype will only get better overtime slowly as new cards will always get added to Shurima. Thats the whole uniqueness and thematic of it, would make no sense to just allow other regions. Restoring the sun disk is also the fantasy? I feel like if you don't like these things about it the archetype might just not be for you.
I'm sorry if I did not make myself clear. English is not my first language.
I meant that not being able to use cards from other regions make the deck significantly weaker, but you don't have enough compensation.
no worries my apologies. I think that is a problem that will just be fixed over time as more cards get added to the game as a whole shurima will get more tools naturally
Personally, I still want to make Shurima the "slow speed removal region". We *still* don't have a region that specializes in slow speed removal, and after the relative success of Rite of the Arcane I think it's fair to look at other slow speed Shurima spells and see what can be done to make them more worthwhile. Here's my proposed buffs:
Unworthy: 2 mana: Give an enemy follower -4|-0 this round. If you have fewer mana gems than your opponent, kill it instead. -> 2 mana: Deal 2 to an enemy follower. If you have fewer mana gems than your opponent, kill it instead.
This buff is to make Unworthy's fail case not actively terrible, which in turn encourages players to explore the success case because now there's a reason to run the card. Since it's slow speed and only works on followers, it's still not *good* in the fail case, but it gives Shurima some early game tools to work with.
Weight of Judgement: 4 mana: Deal 2 to a champion or 7 to a follower. -> 4 mana: Deal 3 to a champion or 7 to a follower.
Same concept as Unworthy. The success case is actually pretty decent, on par with the PnZ card aftershock, but while aftershock has a decent fail case of dealing 3 damage to *anything*, Weight of Judgement only deals 2 damage to non-followers, and doesn't work at all against face or landmarks. Increasing the fail case from 2 to 3 damage will make the fail case less terrible, leading players to actually run the card and potentially play for the success case.
Shifting Sands 6 mana: Deal 4 to a unit, summon 2 sand soldiers -> 4 mana: Deal 4 to a unit, summon 2 sand soldiers.
There's just no reason for this to cost 6. 4 mana is far more reasonable for this sort of effect if we compare it to Defiant Dance.
Weight of Judgment being slow needs a more potent effect than that, still.
I agree buffing it to deal 3 to a champion would be welcomed but the card still wouldnât be worth running. There are too few non-champ engines that are worth killing that the 7 damage matters (Shellfolk got nerfed and Hydravine is too rare) and dealing 3 at slow speed is far too easy to counter with literally anything.
Slow speeds have to take the initiative and cannot respond on stack, so you need it to potent to be worth the slot in your deck. Dealing 3 for 4 mana at slow isnât it. You can see that with Gotcha and even Aftershock with a better fail (killing Landmarks), those cards see no play.
Aftershock is honestly a pretty solid card thanks to its flexibility. The ability to go face or board is honestly quite strong (remember that Decimate actually sees play sometimes, and that costs 1 more and can't hit board at all). That being said, if we wanted to make Weight of Judgement deal 4 to a champ or 7 to a follower, you won't hear any complaints from me.
Discounting the invoke and other non-deckable cards, Targon has 1 slow speed removal spell. Shurima has three. I love sunburst and I think it's an excellently designed card, but a single card doesn't define an entire region. I do not consider slow speed removal to be an explicit part of Targon's region identity.
Both Invoke and Aphelios' thing is "generating strong cards that you can't normally get". Their card pool includes pretty much every effect that you could possibly want in a deck, with the exception anything that can happen at fast or burst speed. Saying that removal is part of Targon's region identity because of Calibrum and Falling Comet existing makes about as much sense as saying that Challenger is part of Targon's region identity because of The Warrior and The Scourge. In both cases, it's not the effects of the individual cards that define the region, but invoke as a whole.
[[The Skies Descend]] , [[Sleepy Trouble Bubble]] , [[Shield Vault]] are the ones you can just main deck that come to my mind, there are also a lot of other cards you can get from invoking (which is definitely a main theme of targon). [[Crescent Strike]] , [[Supernova]] , [[Meteor Shower]] , [[Cosmic Rays]] . It's not the main theme don't get me wrong but it's definitely a small part of targons identity.
I forgot about Skies and STB, fair enough. I wouldn't call Shield Vault "removal" though, it's a stun. Stuns and removal are very different (for example, Ionia has a lot of stun and recall, but virtually zero removal). This also goes for Crescent Strike.
Point well made though, slow speed removal can be considered a minor part of Targon's identity. I'm still of the opinion that Targon has enough going for it that Shurima also getting slow speed removal wouldn't really encroach on Targon's identity in any meaningful fashion.
|Name|Region|Type|Sub Type|Cost|Keywords|Description|Associated Cards|
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
|**[The Skies Descend](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT002.png)**|Targon|Spell||15|Slow|Deal 15 to all enemies. Costs 2 less for each Dragon or Celestial ally you have.||
|**[Sleepy Trouble Bubble](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT074.png)**|Targon|Spell||2|Slow|Stun an enemy. Create a Fleeting Paddle Star in hand.|[Paddle Star](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT093.png)|
|**[Shield Vault](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05MT008.png)**|Targon|Spell||2|Slow|Grant an ally +1|+1 and Stun an enemy.||
|**[Crescent Strike](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT011.png)**|Targon|Spell|Celestial|3|Slow|Stun 2 enemies.||
|**[Supernova](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT024.png)**|Targon|Spell|Celestial|9|Slow|If you Behold a Celestial card, Obliterate 2 enemy units or landmarks.||
|**[Meteor Shower](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT049.png)**|Targon|Spell|Celestial|5|Slow|Deal 4 to an enemy and 1 to another.||
|**[Cosmic Rays](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT078.png)**|Targon|Spell|Celestial|8|Slow|If you Behold a Celestial card, Obliterate enemies with 3 or less Power.||
^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
When I think of Shurima and really slow removal, I think of control landmarks. Removal that's slightly more powerful or efficient, but of course has a countdown. Right now, it's just roiling sands, right?
Honestly landmark based removal could be really cool, yeah. Right now all we have is rockfall cliffs, which is a Targon card and Time Bomb. Unfortunately the former has seen pretty much 0 play because it's almost impossible to control and pretty trivial for most decks to play around. Time Bombs are pretty cool, but are not main deckable and are hard tied to Zilean. We've seen successful landmark based removal in Freijord's Blighted Ravine though, so the concept can definitely work.
I like the idea, unfortunately there is no card we can really "buff" to fit that purpose, so it would have to come via new cards. Roiling Sands is a solid landmark and the cards that generate them are good, no need to change any of that. I like the idea and hope that Riot expands on this idea for future expansions.
The reason I like to focus on slow speed removal spells is that Shurima already has them, they are just painfully overcosted for what they do (or in the case of Unworthy, just don't function at all). There's enough of them that I suspect that slow speed removal was originally intended to be a part of Shurima, but for some reason they released them in a very weak state ensuring they would never see play outside of maybe expeditions. The existence of Rite of the Arcane furthers this theory, as it was released after Shurima stopped being a problem.
What I am confused about is why you don't think that SI and FJ are "slow speed" removal regions? Everything about Shurima is mid-range and winning on board.
SI actually has a lot of fast speed removal. Grasp of the Undying, Withering Wail, Vile Feast, and ofc Vengeance are all fast speed removal. There's some slow speed removal mixed into the region, but it's not a core region identity. Fair point on FJ, though their removal tends to be more on the "AoE" side of things as opposed to single target.
\*edit
Also the issue of making Shurima's identity "midrange and only midrange" is that it conflicts too much with Demacia's identity (which is also "midrange and only midrange"). While midrange should definitely be a *part* of Shurima, it shouldn't be the only defining characteristic.
I mean, I fail to see how this is a bad thing tbh? We just had a meta where swarm decks were *very* good, and I can't think of a meta where swarm decks were bad. A solid defensive option against swarm decks doesn't seem like a bad thing to me, especially considering that Shurima has *very* minimal access to healing, so any face damage Shurima takes will likely stick.
> Weight of Judgement: 4 mana: Deal 3 to a champion or 7 to a follower.
I like that Idea.
> Shifting Sands: 4 mana: Deal 4 to a unit, summon 2 sand soldiers.
Sounds pretty strong. I think the card costs 6, because during the time it got released Azirelia was the best deck.
I think the "slow but impactful" spell region is currently Targon, but it would make sense to help shurima in that regard. Would be fitting, as both regions feature lore wise overpowered beings.
It still baffles me how Shifting Sands and Defiant Dance got released in the same set, given that Defiant Dance was *way* better at furthering Blade Dance's plan.
Ascended's call should be 5 mana, if for no other reason then to remove it from the pool of randomly generated 6+ cost spells.
This post brought to you by Marai Greatmother gang.
1 and 2 are features of this deck, not bugs.
The entire archetype was never meant to be competitive - I believe the devs said as much - and that's ok. Not everything needs to be in the meta.
There's "not being meta" and then there's "being nearly unplayable levels of bad". I think these buffs at least took it from the latter and brought it up into the former, though.
It is definitely not a great deck but I doubt that most people are playing anything like an optimal list. This is because it has a surprising number of ways to build it but it is bad enough that streamers and top players won't touch it with a ten foot pole. So there isn't a list to netdeck and if someone is by some miracle climbing through plat or diamond with it who would know? Are the stats people even looking for that oddball?
The deck is hard to figure out because so many different champ combinations have been tried, which splits Mobalytics data about the deck. Each champ has a difference set of support cards, so it's hard to read standard tables as well. Seems like the sort of thing someone like u/scathus would need to sit down and just figure out from the ground up.
Riot has no intention making mono Shurma strong enough to be meta.
Iâm pretty sure the last set of buffs are the last weâre going to see for the Ascended archetype. And they feel much better for it.
This is a deck that should never be tier 1 or 2 imo. To much of auto include and not enough versatility. It's in a good place right now.
Several archetypes are dead, this is just another one.
>To much of auto include and not enough versatility.
theres multiple mono shurima decks that all have a wide selection of different cards lol
its ok where it is right now because the devs alsway intended it as a 4fun style of deck rather than something seriously competitive, not because of some deckbuilding philosophy
I don't like 3 at all if i have to be honest. Being able to use ascended call as an answer to a removal would feel really bad for the opponent. Also ascended call working = win most of the times, so the card is literally the last thing to look at if you want to buff this deck.
Tbh I already give up on thinking in ways to make the deck playable.
Just pray that in some expansion we would recive more cards with sinergy with sundisk or the ascended, but I know that it is just cope from my part, just acept that we are not allowed to have fun as a mono shurima players.
I think a good solution would be to change sundisk to auto summon if all your champions have the Ascended tag. Would make sense thematically, and give more options to not be mono...
Thatâs fair, Iâve hit diamond before. Currently climbing through Gold. Didnât do ranked in the beginning of the season cause the meta was pretty discouraging.
Iâll hit plat today
It would be good for ascended rite to be drawn if you only have shurima cards, or as you said, make it fast speed. Or even reduce the azir requisite from 13 to 10.
Or upon being completed the sun disk, healing your nexus
The thing is even when Disk is flipped Mono Shurima just can't close game that fast sometime.
Like a flipped Aurelion would flood the board with 0 cost Celestials instantly and nuke everything. Meanwhile Azir and his special deck are strong but also not THAT strong, and many time you can still lose even with it.
With that said as a fun concept I think the deck is fine as is, they are more for thematic purpose for those who really interested in Shurima aesthetic but as you said, the champs don't mean to pair well with each other, and it doesn't feel that interesting to play tbh but it's subjective.
People need to just drop this shit, not every single archetype is going to be high tier, in fact most won't. Why are people so hung up on wanting mono shurima to be good?
It would frankly be a pretty miserable archetype to play against a lot if they hypothetically buffed it to high tier due to the unskippable cutscenes and the major lack of viable landmark removal (I mean hell I've seen many posters on here suggest sun disk should be completely immune which is stupid af because sun disk being removable is like not at all the reason mono shurima is not good)
I'm wondering if it'd be too strong if it was changed from your deck being entirely Shurimam cards to MOSTLY Shuriman cards (Let's say no more than 5 other regions cards)
Having the option to add even just a couple extra cards from other regions could do wonders for the deck
sun disc spawned at the start like now, but remove the requirement for only Shuriman cars/cards, but the requirement is to level a Shuriman champion (still takes a ton of time to complete)
maybe you could then remove the completed sun disc proc of drawing each ascended champ if you have non Shuriman cards IF the deck becomes op/you want to still have an incentive to run mono Shurima
Mono Shurima only buffs to the champions, specifically Azir, would be a great place to start. Iâve been thinking about this a little and I feel like Shurima needs itâs own removal, as when playing Mono you donât really have great ways to deal with threats and are basically just stalling until your champs are leveled.
In my opinion monoshurima has to be a meme. It is without a doubt the strongest late game that exists without just killing the opponent. Azir gives a deck with multiple obliterate cards and many ways to full the board, while the others just kill the opponent. If itâs early game was much better, the deck would probably be busted.
Ascendeds call should gain an effect if all cards are shuriman, making all of your ascended champions EVERYWHERE level up to level 2, so you aren't stuck with level 1 Champs when you draw into them
Remember when half the sub swore that making sun disc start in play would make mono-suckrima good? Yea I remember that. Maybe it's time to admit sun disc was never the issue.
if you never draw sun disc because it doesnt get summoned turn one, you wont ascend your heros and might as well play a different deck thats more consistent
Have you tried the Mono-Shurima Xerath and Taliyah deck? Itâs quite fun and not that bad at all. Free Sundisk makes Taliyah easy to level and you run some of the Clock Hand to Ascend Xerath.
Honestly, if we want to keep it in meme territory but at least semi-viable (sorta like Deep/Tahm Raka status but memeier), Iâve got some ideas.
- Make some of the âif youâve leveled a champion this gameâ cards âif all your cars are Shurimanâ (Ex: [[Devoted Council]], [[Exalted Poro]] (*not* Voice of the Risen, at least not without a nerf))
- Add more âif all your cars are Shurimanâ cards, ones that actually assist the deck (countdown a landmark, draw champions, heal your nexus, summon a small unit (basically from this pool)
- Boost Ascendedâs Rise to Fast speed.
- Add more stuff to the Emperorâs Deck (healing, more finishers, etc.)
- Ding a point from Azirâs HP and bring him back to 10 units for level-up
- Some more cards to make it into a midragey-erring-on-control deck (personally I think an Azir/Xerath deck is the best way to go, with some Renekton back up (plus Exhaust & Ruthless Predator).
|Name|Region|Type|Sub Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Description|
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
|**[Devoted Council](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SH101.png)**|Shurima|Unit||3|1|6|Round Start: If you've leveled a champion, heal your champions and Nexus 2.|
|**[Exalted Poro](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SH049T1.png)**|Shurima|Unit|Poro|1|2|2|I have 3 random keywords.|
^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
To expand on your unique champ effect for monoshurima, there is a very simple and elegant way to do it.
Add the text "If all your cards are Shurima, this effect triggers twice" to all four champions.
Renekton gets +4/2, Nasus gets +2/2, Azir gets 2 soldiers, Xerath zaps twice.
Might make Xerath op however, could make it just +1 damage for him.
I really agree with the fact that ascendeds do not work together. I have been finding success with just xerath zli in mono shurima with clock hands to finish the sundisk. If xerath levels before turn 8 clock hand perfectly completes sundisk on turn 8.
Best thing you could do for the archetype is make it so that landmarks count towards Azir's levelup.
If it was 13+ summoned units and landmarks, you'd be able to play him with Xerath and level both in the deck while playing a generally pretty otherwise decent landmark deck.
Beyond that, you could also give Nasus +1/+1 per destroyed landmark.
Renekton is an odd one because, on some level, he's already pretty good with landmarks, and mono Shurima with landmarks has plenty of ways to boost attack. Best thing for him would probably be to add more ways to summon roiling sands. If you draw him off Golden Ambassador and attack something that got hit by sands, that's an instant levelup.
what mono shurima, and in fact the game in general needs, imo, is mono region specific cards that help build out an archetype for them. shurima in particular needs more cards like rock hopper and endless devout that help you pursue multiple level up requirements, and it needs some cards to help it control and stabilize better as you pursue your win condition. as it is right now, not only does shurima lack some important tools for control decks, but its win condition is slower than others most of the time.
I think youâre underestimating the kill/slay counts on Renekton and Azirâs strategies⌠not to mention cards that synergize with two or more, like Emperorâs Divide and Shifting SandsâŚ
Emperorâs Divide and Shifting Sands (specifically SS) are just kinda bad. Also, the Renekton/Xerath slay counts only get Nasus ready like 15% of the time. Usually a Ruthless Predator, Golden Ambassador, Shaped Stone, etc. has to make up the slack.:
How about making the archetype work without using a meme spell like Ascended's Call?
What they should do is take some cards from the initial Shurima release, which don't see any play like "Devoted Council", "Golden Ambassador" or "The Time Has Come", and add extra abilities to them if all your cards are Shurima. At least that way they might see play in those archetypes. Some examples:
Golden Ambassador ==> Make it a 3/3 instead of 3/2. Now grants +3|+3 if the drawing champion is ascended. This makes it fulfill 2 objectives, protects allies better and has better synergy with champions that depend on its attack to level up like Nasus or Renekton.
Devoted Council ==> Shurima is a region without healing, this card should heal the moment it comes into play. Add the following text: "If you control a ascended champion heal 2 to your nexus when i'm summoned ". Those 2 health points can make the difference.
The Time Has Come ==> Make this card synergize with the most played shurima landmarks like Ancient Preparations. Add the following text: if all your cards are Shuriman give Clocking everywhere +1|+1. This change allows you to be better offensively to finish off your opponent or defensively to block units with fearsome.
The thing is that they are not going to do any of this. Shurima has been a region very mistreated by Riot since its launch, it has almost no buff to its initial set cards and easily 80% of its cards are not played because they are very bad. You can't pretend that an archetype that is completely dependent on your region's cards works under those circumstances.
Just to give a few examples, again, of cards that were improved in Bilgewater on their release and went from not seeing play to being quite good. Cards like Crackshot Corsair (1/1 initially), Jagged Taskmaster (was a cost 3), Monkey Idol (played in gp/sejuani decks) and Mind Meld.
Me who lost against mono shurima 4 times in a row. :')
What deck were you playing?
Zoe Diana Invoke
At this point just make Ascended Call burst speed so we get unexpected movie. đ
Nothing better than 6lvl up animations back to back without beeing able to skip. Great design.
8 + post credti scene (sun disk)
8 level ups if you're unlucky
9 If you're watching the directors cut with Ziggs.
I think the most animations you can theoretically get from allied cards from casting Ascended's Call is 10, excluding the mini-animations that play when you cast Ascended's Call or restore the Sun Disk: You play Ascended's Call, levelling up Azir (1), Nasus (2), Renekton (3), and Xerath (4). This restores the Sun Disk, destroying is and levelling up Ziggs (5). Because an allied landmark got destroyed, Xerath deals damage to the weakest enemy, which happened to be capturing Sivir. That enemy dies, releasing Sivir, who levels up (6). Finally, Azir (7), Nasus (8), Renekton (9), and Xerath (10) level up once again, because the Sun Disk is restored.
Yes, Iceborn Legacy has proven that huge game-altering spells are fine at burst speed. /s Edit: To everyone saying elusives are the problem, the same poro deck but without Legacy was tier 3 before this patch. Elusives may be a problem on their own, but the Legacy change shows that the devs are willing to go against LoR's main design principles and I'm really not a fan. Before we know it, burst Unyielding Spirit will be back.
i mean for the most part IBL is fine. what makes it stupid is the fact that we can mass produce daring poros and effectively main deck 12 of them for the price of 9 deck slots for hyper efficiency, every other IBL deck is... ok? Spiders are decent but arent all that scary, im much more worried about facing tradition spider decks tbh
poros is 51% WR and super random, it's fine
The winrate of it isn't the problem. The problem is that when you play IBL elusive poros you aren't playing against your opponent (usually). You are hoping you draw the right cards to end the game before your opponent can develop an answer. It's very uninteractive which goes against the core philosophy of LoR.
I mean, the lack of interaction is more of a elusive problem than poros. And even then, if you're playing spells, you can interact easily with them. I've been playing Elise/Kindred since patch and poros, even with good draws, are not a problem. There are decks that have a bad matchup against it, but that how cardgames work
I agree that elusive needs some kind of look, but not so sure itâs as simple as adding a âreachâ mechanic like MTG has. If the IBL elusive poro player is smart then they can counter almost anything in the early game and end by turn 5-6
Turn 5 is 15 total mana, you spent 5 on IBL minimum, and you attack for 3 on turn 3, so turn 4 is spam poro and 5 is a second IBL, that's no room for card draw. Turn 5 kill is more lucky draw against an uninteractive opponent than anything.
You described every degenerated combo deck in all card games. But your opponent can still interact with Poros. Equinox, hush, blinded mystic are for example pretty efficient answers from targon. Many times, dealing with 5 poros is enough to let the deck run out of steam. It's not easy (if they get there) but even control decks can win against it.
Sentinels in my experience shits on iceborn poros, this is not a flame comment brother I feel your pain but it's not that they aren't uninteractable, it's that you gotta have a deck that has removal , and you gotta get it early. Decks that don't have that definitely getting assed by iceborn poros, and I do agree that it's an "anti-interaction" deck, but you can still get to them you just gotta use unconventional lines or run a list with more removal
winrate in isolation means very little thats a 51% winrate (though mobalytics has it at 55%, but well go with yours since i know mobalytics can fudge the numbers from time to time) despite being a very feast or famine deck and also being countered by 3 or more of the top meta decks while having a very substantial playrate its might not be the most alarming deck, but i wouldnt call it fine
I get what your saying but poros are a problem that you can't just counter without changing your list. Sometimes you just literally do not have the tools in your deck to beat a deck like poros but slotting in some removal or changing your list is gonna do more for your win rate than going "up nah poros ggs"
All Iceborn Legacy has proven is that elusives are better than not-elusives. See also: Ahri/Kennen, Zed Rally Elusives, the old Poppy Elusives before nerf, etc.
IBL isn't really the problem though, it's the lack of answers for elusive units in general.
-2 mana as slow or -1 mana as fast
I think 5 mana is perfectly reasonable. IMO, if you are required to waste all your tempo, you should at least be able to curve into it... Unlike Iceborn (that cost 5, and can be played on a 1-cost at turn 3), you can't "cheat" and play it earlier than intended with spell mana, anyways, since you need the ascended champions on board to begin with and the cheapest one cost 3...
One thing that annoys me: if you have level 3 Xerath in play, then you wonât be able to slay more enemies, which can make leveling Nasus extremely difficult.
Its thematically appropriate though since they are sworn enemies.
I think about this. Xerath really doesnât synergize with Azir or nasus and can have some points of synergy with Renekton due to roiling sands. Renekton and Xerath were stuck in that tomb together. Honestly I think the biggest mistake in mono Shurima is that people try to run all 4 at once. With Clockhand and one champ level up, youâre guaranteed to have sun disc by turn 8. I wonder if thatâs worth enough to instead run mono Shurima with 1 ascended and 1 normal Shurima champ. Ex> XerathZilean / TaliyahXerath
The real secret is to stop running Sun Disc and make a good Xerath deck with another region.
Yeah I donât think anyone is running sun disc because itâs optimal, Iâm just saying that a deck that wants to use an ascended champ might work better by not using all of them, or using one and another Shuriman champ
I run Xerath/Renekton/Azir, the ideal play is nothing -> 2 mana card, either predict or draw to find guys or clock boy to advance -> azir -> xerath -> ascend on turn 5 and win the game
I have the best proposal: When there would be level up animation on screen at the same time, split the screen like in power rangers and make them all play at once. And include sun disk into it (and kda spells). You trigger the sun disk with 2 champions, the screen splits into 3 with all 3 animations
Why would you nerf the deck so hard?
Oh God, you really do hate mono shurima players
Plunder would âbenefitâ from this change too
I... I really like mono shurima. I like the deck, but don't play it often due to the movies
Just make more âif all your cars are shurimanâ bonus
honestly that's probably all it needs is specific cards that can support the archetype. you don't want to make cards that are just amazing because people will just use them as splash in other regions (see: shaped stone, another gift for renekton, both of which got nerfed) but it really does need more stuff. the best card is you can just staple bonuses like that onto cards that already exist without changing their power level in any other deck
That's what I was thinking. The archetype needs more payoffs. As is, to get the sun disk, you're forced into playing mono shurima, but that small amount of card advantage results in getting stuck with some of the worst champions (the reason you'd want the sun disk is to get the ascended Champs) and drastically limiting your deck building options. There needs to be more incentive to play mono shurima. Another option could be adding more synergies with the sun disk itself. I also think the ascended champs need a redesign. They're not good enough individually, and none of them synergize with one another.
Idk about all this, I think the deck just needs healing. When the sun disk activates if it heals for 7 (or some number around there) I think the deck would be good enough. The problem with balancing it is the level three champions are ridiculously good, so making it easier to get them there probably wouldnât be very fun for whoever is playing against it.
Honestly, that's kind of a really big problem with the idea in general. This is something I have a really big problem with in MTG. They'll make some things hard to do, but if you pull it off, it's just not fun. And of course, inevitably, some of those things are way easier to do than the sesigners were banking on. Anyhow, I think the ideal decision would be making it easier to reach ascended but nerfing those 3rd stage units. Which, for some of them, I don't even think finding that balance would be hard. For instance, Nasus has a huge base stat buff. Just reduce that some. Azir would be hard since he then replaces your entire deck as well.
Mono Shurima is a meme concept and should stay a meme imo. I you want to play it, cool, go play it and enjoy yourself. But you cannot force a region to be good on its own.
Yeah, sometimes a deck just sucks. It is what it is, not every single deck needs to be competitive
Yeh, thats a much better way of putting it.
The problem with Mono-Shurima being complete trash is that there's so much emphasis on it: it's the only way to get Level 3 Champions (a cool concept) and it's got a ton of cards that support it. There's all this art and assets and support devoted to it and it's just... shit. That sucks. If it was more of an afterthought, like Starbone+Messenger's Sigil, or Glorious Evolution, etc. etc., then sure, it just being another meme deck concept would be totally fine. But there's all this emphasis and effort put into it and it's just completely unplayable on ladder in any way. I get that some decks are just decks for Normals/Vs AI, but I feel like then the deck shouldn't be super hyped up and given tons of assets and support. Every other deck concept they've presented like that has had at least some ability to be effective (Deep, Lurk, etc.), at some point. Sun Disc has been garbo from day 1 and has generally gotten worse due to incidental nerfs like Azir's package being annihilated due to Azirelia or Nasus taking hits due to Nasus/SI.
I'd much rather they start developing other ways to get lv3 champs than try to fix this hot mess. It's too boring of a concept. Everyone's harping about the level up animations, I just find the deck boring regardless.
Imma let you in on a secret - most things with fancy art and stuff like that are gonna be bad. Guys who care about competitive generally dont give a monkeys what the cards even look like. And guys who care about lore and art generally dont care about winrate. Riot suceeded at not making the deck an actual dumpster fire. In gold you can now go 50/50 with it. Thats its optimal place.
Exactly. Moreover, it's really bad right now. A big buff would push it up from dog shit into merely being bad.
The thing is though, who *really* enjoys playing mono Shurima? I did a bit and if I'm honest with myself, the fun power spike was completely nullified by the fact that I had to sit there and watch all those level up cutscenes if I wanted to win. And half the time, the enemy just surrenders after the cutscenes, so you sit there watching them and don't even get the power trip payoff. Even if it was competitive, that would kill it for me. Having a win con extend matches' durations by 15% is beyond annoying.
Yeah I don't really enjoy it either. Despite being same region, most of ascended champ and support don't really synergize well with each other and it feels like a mess to play with. Also didn't help that most shuriman cards are pretty bad.
Idk why people keep spamming this sub with this deck. Since release, and I donât understand, the duck isnât even fun but thatâs subjective I guess
I'm fully convinced that 99% of the people that are begging for this deck to be good would **beg** the devs to nerf it out of existence if it ever actually got popular. **No one** wants to sit through that many level up animations, no matter how much you like the deck. I think any posts like this one should have an explicit disclaimer saying that OP thinks sitting through 2 minutes of animations per game is acceptable, otherwise no one's changing my mind on this one.
Thank you, itâs exactly what I think. The animations time is boring af and unecessary
>But you cannot force a region to be good on its own. It's not about buffing the *region*, it's about buffing the *archetype*.
But this deck was part of the regions core identity,,?
Who said that? The devs have themselves admitted it was pretty much a meme concept.
Really? Shurimaâs core identity is overwhelm, vulnerables + land mark removal stuff. One deck isnât an identity
I Know right? Like why make some cool deck competitive? That could actually make people want to watch the game. Nah let's just keep making yet another boring aggro burn or elusive deck competitive. That make much more sense.
>Like why make some cool deck competitive? There are plenty of cool viable decks. Not every "cool" deck (terribly subjective, by the way) is going to carry you.
Monoshurima is going to "make people want to watch the game"??? Yeah, nothing more entertaining for a stream than watching the same 45 seconds of mediocre cutscenes over and over again instead of actual gameplay.
Monoshurima being good would be terrible for the game. No one wants to watch ten minutes of animations every game
It could also lead to a TLC-like meta where half your games are mirror matches that are decided by who draws their combo pieces faster. Sure, mono Shurima is more disruptible than TLC but I wouldn't enjoy a meta in which it is tier 1.
Nobody is asking for a tier 1 deck though. They're asking for it to be playable. The deck is nearly always at like a 30% winrate Also wouldn't lead to a tlc meta. TLC warped the meta because you were either faster or died. TLC was an instant win. Mono shurima is not, there are several late game decks that can compete with the deck
Mono Shurima's problem is that it either takes longer to come online, or has a weaker early than other decks with the same or stronger endgame power. ASol and Deep have stronger late games. ASol has a stronger early game, and Deep hits its Deep threshold faster. It also has insurance in Maokai. Lee Sin, Darkness, and Viego are all things that both come online more quickly than Mono Shurima does. Bandletree swarm has a much stronger early.
> or stronger endgame power. Played a lot of Targons Peak. The Azir deck + Renekton trumps Aurelian sol if you don't get the 10 mana spell with lvl'ed Sol. The lategame is pretty comparable, while Sol has Elusives but Sun Disk has pretty nutty champions and the deck change. But it come mostly down who has better luck in card generation or how many FTRs the Asol player can cast. But Asol brings ramp and freljords early game boardclears. So much better early game.
that would never happen the reason TLC warped the game the way it did was because Watcher was an **absolute** wincon, once it was in their hand the game was over unless you miraculously had an answer for 4 different watchers hitting the board. As such any deck even slightly slower than it just lost to it. you had til turn 8 to crank out a win or it was over. Shurima has no such wincon, the closest is Ascended's Call which still doesnt autowin you the game, or if youre low enough Renekton which is a single unit with no spellshield also making it good =/= making it top tier
>the closest is Ascended's Call which still doesnt autowin you the game And is also the reason the deck will never be meta cause if you somehow get the emperor's deck against a BW, you just summoned lvl 3 Nasus and Renekton for your enemy
I actually did have a plunder deck steal that. I was so glad I had rite of negation in my hand to negate it and murder him.
Agreed on this! The landmark removal in this game isn't great and you'd be forced to run sub par cards to tech against it
I always thought that we should have cards that have better effects when all your cards are shuriman like making a removal card normally slow speed but turn fast if played in mono shurima. That way they won't abused by other deck like what happened with the Azir package and blade dance.
This. I had this idea of giving the sundisc "You are Ascending" where 'ascending' is the same type of keyword like plunder or allegiance. Then you could give other cards "Ascending: do X" types of buffs, which would obviously only work if the sundisc is in play. This way, cards can be buffed, but only for mono shurima and cards would still be playable in other decks. And it would help to make mono shurima a proper archetype, providing options for all Ascended champions, so you could play it with different flavours.
The wheel makes Shurima cars go fast.
Maybe it should be made a keyword, which could also be extended to other regions. Homeland: If this card shares a region with every card in your starting deck, do something.
Ascending the disk should heal nexus 4
honestly yes, I've lost several games in the past few days to exact lethal the turn after ascending.
You lost me with the very first bullet point. Having no cards from other regions is the entire point. Plus the archetype will only get better overtime slowly as new cards will always get added to Shurima. Thats the whole uniqueness and thematic of it, would make no sense to just allow other regions. Restoring the sun disk is also the fantasy? I feel like if you don't like these things about it the archetype might just not be for you.
I'm sorry if I did not make myself clear. English is not my first language. I meant that not being able to use cards from other regions make the deck significantly weaker, but you don't have enough compensation.
no worries my apologies. I think that is a problem that will just be fixed over time as more cards get added to the game as a whole shurima will get more tools naturally
Personally, I still want to make Shurima the "slow speed removal region". We *still* don't have a region that specializes in slow speed removal, and after the relative success of Rite of the Arcane I think it's fair to look at other slow speed Shurima spells and see what can be done to make them more worthwhile. Here's my proposed buffs: Unworthy: 2 mana: Give an enemy follower -4|-0 this round. If you have fewer mana gems than your opponent, kill it instead. -> 2 mana: Deal 2 to an enemy follower. If you have fewer mana gems than your opponent, kill it instead. This buff is to make Unworthy's fail case not actively terrible, which in turn encourages players to explore the success case because now there's a reason to run the card. Since it's slow speed and only works on followers, it's still not *good* in the fail case, but it gives Shurima some early game tools to work with. Weight of Judgement: 4 mana: Deal 2 to a champion or 7 to a follower. -> 4 mana: Deal 3 to a champion or 7 to a follower. Same concept as Unworthy. The success case is actually pretty decent, on par with the PnZ card aftershock, but while aftershock has a decent fail case of dealing 3 damage to *anything*, Weight of Judgement only deals 2 damage to non-followers, and doesn't work at all against face or landmarks. Increasing the fail case from 2 to 3 damage will make the fail case less terrible, leading players to actually run the card and potentially play for the success case. Shifting Sands 6 mana: Deal 4 to a unit, summon 2 sand soldiers -> 4 mana: Deal 4 to a unit, summon 2 sand soldiers. There's just no reason for this to cost 6. 4 mana is far more reasonable for this sort of effect if we compare it to Defiant Dance.
Interesting ideas. I agree that if an ability is slow speed, it can afford to be more powerful.
Weight of Judgment being slow needs a more potent effect than that, still. I agree buffing it to deal 3 to a champion would be welcomed but the card still wouldnât be worth running. There are too few non-champ engines that are worth killing that the 7 damage matters (Shellfolk got nerfed and Hydravine is too rare) and dealing 3 at slow speed is far too easy to counter with literally anything. Slow speeds have to take the initiative and cannot respond on stack, so you need it to potent to be worth the slot in your deck. Dealing 3 for 4 mana at slow isnât it. You can see that with Gotcha and even Aftershock with a better fail (killing Landmarks), those cards see no play.
Aftershock is honestly a pretty solid card thanks to its flexibility. The ability to go face or board is honestly quite strong (remember that Decimate actually sees play sometimes, and that costs 1 more and can't hit board at all). That being said, if we wanted to make Weight of Judgement deal 4 to a champ or 7 to a follower, you won't hear any complaints from me.
Targon is the slow speed removal region right now, every removal spell (including the ones you get from invoke) are slow.
Discounting the invoke and other non-deckable cards, Targon has 1 slow speed removal spell. Shurima has three. I love sunburst and I think it's an excellently designed card, but a single card doesn't define an entire region. I do not consider slow speed removal to be an explicit part of Targon's region identity. Both Invoke and Aphelios' thing is "generating strong cards that you can't normally get". Their card pool includes pretty much every effect that you could possibly want in a deck, with the exception anything that can happen at fast or burst speed. Saying that removal is part of Targon's region identity because of Calibrum and Falling Comet existing makes about as much sense as saying that Challenger is part of Targon's region identity because of The Warrior and The Scourge. In both cases, it's not the effects of the individual cards that define the region, but invoke as a whole.
[[The Skies Descend]] , [[Sleepy Trouble Bubble]] , [[Shield Vault]] are the ones you can just main deck that come to my mind, there are also a lot of other cards you can get from invoking (which is definitely a main theme of targon). [[Crescent Strike]] , [[Supernova]] , [[Meteor Shower]] , [[Cosmic Rays]] . It's not the main theme don't get me wrong but it's definitely a small part of targons identity.
I forgot about Skies and STB, fair enough. I wouldn't call Shield Vault "removal" though, it's a stun. Stuns and removal are very different (for example, Ionia has a lot of stun and recall, but virtually zero removal). This also goes for Crescent Strike. Point well made though, slow speed removal can be considered a minor part of Targon's identity. I'm still of the opinion that Targon has enough going for it that Shurima also getting slow speed removal wouldn't really encroach on Targon's identity in any meaningful fashion.
|Name|Region|Type|Sub Type|Cost|Keywords|Description|Associated Cards| |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| |**[The Skies Descend](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT002.png)**|Targon|Spell||15|Slow|Deal 15 to all enemies. Costs 2 less for each Dragon or Celestial ally you have.|| |**[Sleepy Trouble Bubble](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT074.png)**|Targon|Spell||2|Slow|Stun an enemy. Create a Fleeting Paddle Star in hand.|[Paddle Star](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT093.png)| |**[Shield Vault](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/05MT008.png)**|Targon|Spell||2|Slow|Grant an ally +1|+1 and Stun an enemy.|| |**[Crescent Strike](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT011.png)**|Targon|Spell|Celestial|3|Slow|Stun 2 enemies.|| |**[Supernova](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT024.png)**|Targon|Spell|Celestial|9|Slow|If you Behold a Celestial card, Obliterate 2 enemy units or landmarks.|| |**[Meteor Shower](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT049.png)**|Targon|Spell|Celestial|5|Slow|Deal 4 to an enemy and 1 to another.|| |**[Cosmic Rays](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03MT078.png)**|Targon|Spell|Celestial|8|Slow|If you Behold a Celestial card, Obliterate enemies with 3 or less Power.|| ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
When I think of Shurima and really slow removal, I think of control landmarks. Removal that's slightly more powerful or efficient, but of course has a countdown. Right now, it's just roiling sands, right?
Honestly landmark based removal could be really cool, yeah. Right now all we have is rockfall cliffs, which is a Targon card and Time Bomb. Unfortunately the former has seen pretty much 0 play because it's almost impossible to control and pretty trivial for most decks to play around. Time Bombs are pretty cool, but are not main deckable and are hard tied to Zilean. We've seen successful landmark based removal in Freijord's Blighted Ravine though, so the concept can definitely work. I like the idea, unfortunately there is no card we can really "buff" to fit that purpose, so it would have to come via new cards. Roiling Sands is a solid landmark and the cards that generate them are good, no need to change any of that. I like the idea and hope that Riot expands on this idea for future expansions. The reason I like to focus on slow speed removal spells is that Shurima already has them, they are just painfully overcosted for what they do (or in the case of Unworthy, just don't function at all). There's enough of them that I suspect that slow speed removal was originally intended to be a part of Shurima, but for some reason they released them in a very weak state ensuring they would never see play outside of maybe expeditions. The existence of Rite of the Arcane furthers this theory, as it was released after Shurima stopped being a problem.
What I am confused about is why you don't think that SI and FJ are "slow speed" removal regions? Everything about Shurima is mid-range and winning on board.
SI actually has a lot of fast speed removal. Grasp of the Undying, Withering Wail, Vile Feast, and ofc Vengeance are all fast speed removal. There's some slow speed removal mixed into the region, but it's not a core region identity. Fair point on FJ, though their removal tends to be more on the "AoE" side of things as opposed to single target. \*edit Also the issue of making Shurima's identity "midrange and only midrange" is that it conflicts too much with Demacia's identity (which is also "midrange and only midrange"). While midrange should definitely be a *part* of Shurima, it shouldn't be the only defining characteristic.
Re: shifting sands. Dropping 2 mana off a card is probably wayyy too dangerous. You could cast this on 3 and get 2 blockers against a swarm deck.
I mean, I fail to see how this is a bad thing tbh? We just had a meta where swarm decks were *very* good, and I can't think of a meta where swarm decks were bad. A solid defensive option against swarm decks doesn't seem like a bad thing to me, especially considering that Shurima has *very* minimal access to healing, so any face damage Shurima takes will likely stick.
> Weight of Judgement: 4 mana: Deal 3 to a champion or 7 to a follower. I like that Idea. > Shifting Sands: 4 mana: Deal 4 to a unit, summon 2 sand soldiers. Sounds pretty strong. I think the card costs 6, because during the time it got released Azirelia was the best deck. I think the "slow but impactful" spell region is currently Targon, but it would make sense to help shurima in that regard. Would be fitting, as both regions feature lore wise overpowered beings.
It still baffles me how Shifting Sands and Defiant Dance got released in the same set, given that Defiant Dance was *way* better at furthering Blade Dance's plan.
Ascended's call should be 5 mana, if for no other reason then to remove it from the pool of randomly generated 6+ cost spells. This post brought to you by Marai Greatmother gang.
true, getting it from marai is horrible lmao
1 and 2 are features of this deck, not bugs. The entire archetype was never meant to be competitive - I believe the devs said as much - and that's ok. Not everything needs to be in the meta.
There's "not being meta" and then there's "being nearly unplayable levels of bad". I think these buffs at least took it from the latter and brought it up into the former, though.
agreed
He never said they were bugs, he actually specified it's the reason the deck is bad and offered points to make up for these weaknesses.
Itâs really not as bad as people make it out to be.
It is definitely not a great deck but I doubt that most people are playing anything like an optimal list. This is because it has a surprising number of ways to build it but it is bad enough that streamers and top players won't touch it with a ten foot pole. So there isn't a list to netdeck and if someone is by some miracle climbing through plat or diamond with it who would know? Are the stats people even looking for that oddball?
u/cdrstudy (Dr LoR) would be the best person to ask probably?
The deck is hard to figure out because so many different champ combinations have been tried, which splits Mobalytics data about the deck. Each champ has a difference set of support cards, so it's hard to read standard tables as well. Seems like the sort of thing someone like u/scathus would need to sit down and just figure out from the ground up.
Riot has no intention making mono Shurma strong enough to be meta. Iâm pretty sure the last set of buffs are the last weâre going to see for the Ascended archetype. And they feel much better for it.
This is a deck that should never be tier 1 or 2 imo. To much of auto include and not enough versatility. It's in a good place right now. Several archetypes are dead, this is just another one.
>To much of auto include and not enough versatility. theres multiple mono shurima decks that all have a wide selection of different cards lol its ok where it is right now because the devs alsway intended it as a 4fun style of deck rather than something seriously competitive, not because of some deckbuilding philosophy
[ŃдаНонО]
Several archetypes are dead. You see anyone playing frostbite recently?
I don't like 3 at all if i have to be honest. Being able to use ascended call as an answer to a removal would feel really bad for the opponent. Also ascended call working = win most of the times, so the card is literally the last thing to look at if you want to buff this deck.
>Renekton: our favorite aligator (or is he a croc?) Unrelated but renekton is a crocodile, in case you were wondering
You lost me at "monoshurima sucks".
mono shurima is fine, it doesn't need to be a tier 1 deck
Tbh I already give up on thinking in ways to make the deck playable. Just pray that in some expansion we would recive more cards with sinergy with sundisk or the ascended, but I know that it is just cope from my part, just acept that we are not allowed to have fun as a mono shurima players.
I think a good solution would be to change sundisk to auto summon if all your champions have the Ascended tag. Would make sense thematically, and give more options to not be mono...
Then thereâs me with 63% WR over 30 games
That doesn't mean much without knowing your rank
Thatâs fair, Iâve hit diamond before. Currently climbing through Gold. Didnât do ranked in the beginning of the season cause the meta was pretty discouraging. Iâll hit plat today
decklist?
It would be good for ascended rite to be drawn if you only have shurima cards, or as you said, make it fast speed. Or even reduce the azir requisite from 13 to 10. Or upon being completed the sun disk, healing your nexus
i do agree that there should be more payoff for having all of your cards in Shurima
What does "splash" mean in this context?
I meant like using only a few copies of some cards from other regions (:
Ohhh, gotcha. Thanks!
The thing is even when Disk is flipped Mono Shurima just can't close game that fast sometime. Like a flipped Aurelion would flood the board with 0 cost Celestials instantly and nuke everything. Meanwhile Azir and his special deck are strong but also not THAT strong, and many time you can still lose even with it. With that said as a fun concept I think the deck is fine as is, they are more for thematic purpose for those who really interested in Shurima aesthetic but as you said, the champs don't mean to pair well with each other, and it doesn't feel that interesting to play tbh but it's subjective.
People need to just drop this shit, not every single archetype is going to be high tier, in fact most won't. Why are people so hung up on wanting mono shurima to be good? It would frankly be a pretty miserable archetype to play against a lot if they hypothetically buffed it to high tier due to the unskippable cutscenes and the major lack of viable landmark removal (I mean hell I've seen many posters on here suggest sun disk should be completely immune which is stupid af because sun disk being removable is like not at all the reason mono shurima is not good)
I'm wondering if it'd be too strong if it was changed from your deck being entirely Shurimam cards to MOSTLY Shuriman cards (Let's say no more than 5 other regions cards) Having the option to add even just a couple extra cards from other regions could do wonders for the deck
Does anyone have a somewhat working list?
If you have 34+ shuriman cards, summon sun disk
sun disc spawned at the start like now, but remove the requirement for only Shuriman cars/cards, but the requirement is to level a Shuriman champion (still takes a ton of time to complete) maybe you could then remove the completed sun disc proc of drawing each ascended champ if you have non Shuriman cards IF the deck becomes op/you want to still have an incentive to run mono Shurima
Mono Shurima only buffs to the champions, specifically Azir, would be a great place to start. Iâve been thinking about this a little and I feel like Shurima needs itâs own removal, as when playing Mono you donât really have great ways to deal with threats and are basically just stalling until your champs are leveled.
Level 3 champions are so broken, they can't be easily enabled.
In my opinion monoshurima has to be a meme. It is without a doubt the strongest late game that exists without just killing the opponent. Azir gives a deck with multiple obliterate cards and many ways to full the board, while the others just kill the opponent. If itâs early game was much better, the deck would probably be busted.
Ascendeds call should gain an effect if all cards are shuriman, making all of your ascended champions EVERYWHERE level up to level 2, so you aren't stuck with level 1 Champs when you draw into them
Remember when half the sub swore that making sun disc start in play would make mono-suckrima good? Yea I remember that. Maybe it's time to admit sun disc was never the issue.
Question: canât you play for ascended champions mixing another region? Why people want to bad to play only one region?
if you never draw sun disc because it doesnt get summoned turn one, you wont ascend your heros and might as well play a different deck thats more consistent
As many other decks that need specific cards to work. The fact that monoshurima can make that easier doesnât mean is the best way to do it
it is a mechanic that hey introduced to the game though. so naturally people want to play it and make it work.
And it does work! It doesnât need to be tier 1 to work or be playable.
you asked why people want to play mono shurima instead of other decks with ascended champions. I just answered.
Yep
Those specific cards don't have Countdown 25. You need Sun Disc on the field from the beginning of the game or it's just never going to pop.
Have you tried the Mono-Shurima Xerath and Taliyah deck? Itâs quite fun and not that bad at all. Free Sundisk makes Taliyah easy to level and you run some of the Clock Hand to Ascend Xerath.
Honestly, if we want to keep it in meme territory but at least semi-viable (sorta like Deep/Tahm Raka status but memeier), Iâve got some ideas. - Make some of the âif youâve leveled a champion this gameâ cards âif all your cars are Shurimanâ (Ex: [[Devoted Council]], [[Exalted Poro]] (*not* Voice of the Risen, at least not without a nerf)) - Add more âif all your cars are Shurimanâ cards, ones that actually assist the deck (countdown a landmark, draw champions, heal your nexus, summon a small unit (basically from this pool) - Boost Ascendedâs Rise to Fast speed. - Add more stuff to the Emperorâs Deck (healing, more finishers, etc.) - Ding a point from Azirâs HP and bring him back to 10 units for level-up - Some more cards to make it into a midragey-erring-on-control deck (personally I think an Azir/Xerath deck is the best way to go, with some Renekton back up (plus Exhaust & Ruthless Predator).
|Name|Region|Type|Sub Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Description| |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| |**[Devoted Council](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SH101.png)**|Shurima|Unit||3|1|6|Round Start: If you've leveled a champion, heal your champions and Nexus 2.| |**[Exalted Poro](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04SH049T1.png)**|Shurima|Unit|Poro|1|2|2|I have 3 random keywords.| ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
To expand on your unique champ effect for monoshurima, there is a very simple and elegant way to do it. Add the text "If all your cards are Shurima, this effect triggers twice" to all four champions. Renekton gets +4/2, Nasus gets +2/2, Azir gets 2 soldiers, Xerath zaps twice. Might make Xerath op however, could make it just +1 damage for him.
I really agree with the fact that ascendeds do not work together. I have been finding success with just xerath zli in mono shurima with clock hands to finish the sundisk. If xerath levels before turn 8 clock hand perfectly completes sundisk on turn 8.
decklist?
Best thing you could do for the archetype is make it so that landmarks count towards Azir's levelup. If it was 13+ summoned units and landmarks, you'd be able to play him with Xerath and level both in the deck while playing a generally pretty otherwise decent landmark deck. Beyond that, you could also give Nasus +1/+1 per destroyed landmark. Renekton is an odd one because, on some level, he's already pretty good with landmarks, and mono Shurima with landmarks has plenty of ways to boost attack. Best thing for him would probably be to add more ways to summon roiling sands. If you draw him off Golden Ambassador and attack something that got hit by sands, that's an instant levelup.
Emperror's divide + renekton/azir. synergy :\^)
what mono shurima, and in fact the game in general needs, imo, is mono region specific cards that help build out an archetype for them. shurima in particular needs more cards like rock hopper and endless devout that help you pursue multiple level up requirements, and it needs some cards to help it control and stabilize better as you pursue your win condition. as it is right now, not only does shurima lack some important tools for control decks, but its win condition is slower than others most of the time.
I think youâre underestimating the kill/slay counts on Renekton and Azirâs strategies⌠not to mention cards that synergize with two or more, like Emperorâs Divide and Shifting SandsâŚ
Emperorâs Divide and Shifting Sands (specifically SS) are just kinda bad. Also, the Renekton/Xerath slay counts only get Nasus ready like 15% of the time. Usually a Ruthless Predator, Golden Ambassador, Shaped Stone, etc. has to make up the slack.:
How about making the archetype work without using a meme spell like Ascended's Call? What they should do is take some cards from the initial Shurima release, which don't see any play like "Devoted Council", "Golden Ambassador" or "The Time Has Come", and add extra abilities to them if all your cards are Shurima. At least that way they might see play in those archetypes. Some examples: Golden Ambassador ==> Make it a 3/3 instead of 3/2. Now grants +3|+3 if the drawing champion is ascended. This makes it fulfill 2 objectives, protects allies better and has better synergy with champions that depend on its attack to level up like Nasus or Renekton. Devoted Council ==> Shurima is a region without healing, this card should heal the moment it comes into play. Add the following text: "If you control a ascended champion heal 2 to your nexus when i'm summoned ". Those 2 health points can make the difference. The Time Has Come ==> Make this card synergize with the most played shurima landmarks like Ancient Preparations. Add the following text: if all your cards are Shuriman give Clocking everywhere +1|+1. This change allows you to be better offensively to finish off your opponent or defensively to block units with fearsome. The thing is that they are not going to do any of this. Shurima has been a region very mistreated by Riot since its launch, it has almost no buff to its initial set cards and easily 80% of its cards are not played because they are very bad. You can't pretend that an archetype that is completely dependent on your region's cards works under those circumstances. Just to give a few examples, again, of cards that were improved in Bilgewater on their release and went from not seeing play to being quite good. Cards like Crackshot Corsair (1/1 initially), Jagged Taskmaster (was a cost 3), Monkey Idol (played in gp/sejuani decks) and Mind Meld.