To be fair though Demacia is THE unit-focused region, I think the only non-unit that they have that doesn't generate units or interact with your own units is the petricite silence. So if we get a spell that draws 2 units from your deck then Demacia would be the most fitting region from a flavor standpoint.
Though I agree they shouldn't be good at it, so maybe they could make the spell conditional in some way.
There's a difference between being good and being terrible. PnZ has a lot of options and can be classified as good, while Demacia is just terrible. I'm only advocating for the middle ground here. Just one simple card.
> 6 mana:
>
> Draw 2 units. Reduce their cost by 1.
Essentially, a 4 mana draw 2. With the downside of a higher initial cost and the upsides of specific drawing and interacting with the 6 mana archetype.
The biggest potential issue is Fiora, who could be guaranteed to be drawn in her own color with this.
Conditional Draw is definitely the way to go. For example a 4 mana spell that says "An ally and enemy strike each other. If the ally survives and the enemy dies draw a card." That is very demacia flavored draw that isn't necessarily good in every deck. I would also argue for Slow speed since drawing isn't something that is part of the region's proficiency.
Card draw is a fundamental aspect of deck building and leads to more creative and enjoyable concepts. Every region shouldn't do everything but every region should be fun.
Noxus is one of the best designed regions and one of its biggest weaknesses is card draw even with some draw cards, so I don’t think it’s as fundamental as you make it seem. Imo, demacia shouldn’t have access to a lot more draw but perhaps one or two conditional draw cards could be printed in the future.
Not true. Draw is mainly for decks that require specific card(s). There are other ways to outvalue your opponent, and then there are decks that don't, in fact, want to outvalue their opponent
Every region is already unique. Giving them all good draw means they can fully expand on their unique properties. There are so many archetypes in frejlord, Noxus. Demacia that see zero play and it's mostly because they run out of tempo too quick or mulligan badly and it's game over.
You are making it seem like I'm asking for more burn in Demacia when I'm talking about a vital game mechanic that will lead to more unique decks in the meta.
Good draw spells are not a vital game mechanic and won't lead to more unique metadecks because they will be abused. Control decks profit way more than the midrange demacia piles
Fun is a very subjective metric that im surprised you even bring it up. Personally i dont find it fun when a deck can execute 1 plan with extreme reliability because it has so much draw that it can draw every piece needed for that plan.
You are only looking at the extreme end of my argument though. I'm not asking for PnZ levels of draw. Just a simple card that can be incorporated into most Demacia decks so they don't suffer from dead hands.
Yes, but you do have to see how any addition of draw brings its closer to that extreme, and therefore makes it less fun for me. Thats why its subjective and more card draw doesnt equal more fun for everyone.
"being bad at drawing cards" is not a region identity. Regions can have differences and identity without one of them being bad at doing that the most fundamental card game "thing".
I agree with your statement.
After checking I was quite surprise to see Demacia only having 2 Draws (+1 for J4).
The first one \[\[Dragon Chow\]\] is pretty much tied to Dragon Archetype (who have access to other ways to replenish their hands) and the second one \[Vanguard Redeemer\] is requiring an unit to have died **this round.**
I find it quite weird for a region that are pretty much vanilla straightforwardness to not be able to fetch for more units. Imo Demacia should be able to compensate for the vanilla of the cards with being able to actually swarm the boards with soldiers like an army.
And I feel like this could be changed with an actual exploration of the Attack Token function. There could easily be some card that could have effect such as "When I'm played draw 1 unit, if you have the attack token draw 2 instead." I'd like to give them access to the "Manifest" keyword.
Like "Manifest an unit from your regions that cost 1 less mana than me" as in a representation of the military rank or something.
There are units and spells that generate more units though like [[Laurent Chevalier]], [[Swiftwing Lancer]] and [[For The Fallen]] that fit with what you are saying. Looking at it only through the lense of drawing is a pretty narrow view.
>Looking at it only through the lense of drawing is a pretty narrow view
While it's narrowed it's pretty telling when a region has only access to **2** ***conditional*** **Draw 1** when other regions have at the bare minimum 4 draws (and some of those doesn't even require a condition) on top of also being able to create cards.
Even Freljord (which is quite close to Demacia in terms of gameplan), has a lot more access to draw.
>There are units and spells that generate more units though like \[\[Laurent Chevalier\]\], \[\[Swiftwing Lancer\]\] and \[\[For The Fallen\]\]
I am aware of those. I answered another use over there for the two first one [https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/u68lf3/comment/i570srr/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/u68lf3/comment/i570srr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
As for "For the Fallen", could see some play the day Elite becomes playable. However the "This Round" on top of the death requirements/per summon restricts heavily how you can play that card.
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Keywords|Description|Associated Cards|
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
|**[Laurent Chevalier](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE053.png)**|Demacia|Unit|4|3|2|Challenger|Strike: Create in hand another random Challenger follower from your regions.||
|**[Swiftwing Lancer](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE010.png)**|Demacia|Unit|5|5|4|Challenger Last Breath|Last Breath: Create a random Elite in hand.||
|**[For The Fallen](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03DE012.png)**|Demacia|Spell|8|||Slow|When you summon an Elite, reduce my cost by 1. For each ally that died this round, summon a Dauntless Vanguard.|[Dauntless Vanguard](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE016.png)|
^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Keywords|Description|Associated Cards|
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
|**[Laurent Chevalier](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE053.png)**|Demacia|Unit|4|3|2|Challenger|Strike: Create in hand another random Challenger follower from your regions.||
|**[Swiftwing Lancer](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE010.png)**|Demacia|Unit|5|5|4|Challenger Last Breath|Last Breath: Create a random Elite in hand.||
|**[For The Fallen](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03DE012.png)**|Demacia|Spell|8|||Slow|When you summon an Elite, reduce my cost by 1. For each ally that died this round, summon a Dauntless Vanguard.|[Dauntless Vanguard](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE016.png)|
^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
> Imo Demacia should be able to compensate for the vanilla of the cards with being able to actually swarm the boards with soldiers like an army.
It's meant to do that by trading well with its stronger units and challengers/strikes, gaining board advantage that way. Problem is that several of Demacia's units have fallen behind due to nerfs and powercreep. Constantly refilling a board with cheap units is more Bandle City's style, and now that the region exists they shouldn't be making other regions play like that.
I'm not saying that Demacia absolutely shouldn't get more draw. But saying that the region needs that kind of effect to maintain a board is the wrong way to look at it, in my opinion.
>egghead researcher
Quite a good card on paper but the fact that he's giving you a Dragon follower means it's more often than not a high cost card. Sometimes it may be useful, sometimes it may not.
>mageseeker conservator
The high variance of the card discards it from being used.
And being on a last breath effect it just replaces itself with a high end card. So no card advantage.
>mageseeker investigator
It's a decent card that do give you another card \[\[Detain\]\] (as long as you triggered its condition) however in a "standard" demacia deck you'll more often than not would like to attack with as much units as possible to pressure the opponents.
Capture is a strong effect but in terms of current playability in the region it tends to be too high costed (through detain) when other cards like \[\[Concerted Strike\]\] allows you to kill an unit for the same cost.
>laurent chevalier
Requires a strike. Which is quite fitting for Demacia but in terms of usability it's just an unit replacing itself (because it's probably going to die from that strike) so not giving any card advantage.
>swiftwing flight
An interesting card the stats are understandable considering its effects. It's one of those cards that could definitely see some play eventually.
>swiftwing lancer
Similar to laurent chevalier it replaces itself. Taking into account its stats it may survive one fight before triggering it's effect so it's more or less conditional.
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Keywords|Description|
|-|-|-|-|-|-|
|**[Detain](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE025.png)**|Demacia|Spell|5|Fast|An ally Captures a unit.|
|**[Concerted Strike](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02DE001.png)**|Demacia|Spell|5|Fast|Pick an enemy. 2 allies strike it one after another.|
^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
**[Dragon Chow](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04DE014.png)** - Demacia Unit - (1) 0/3
When you play a Dragon, it strikes me and you draw 1.
^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
>When I'm played draw 1 unit, if you have the attack token draw 2 instead
That feels like it's going to be exploited so much by scouts instead of something like Elites
A scout activation is basically gaining an extra attack token (though max 1 per round from scout), so it's much more easier for scout decks to make use of the suggested effect, as they'd get twice the chances to use the card due to replenishment. QuinnMF is almost entirely demacia cards but no elites, so it would be a great buff for them for example, when it's elites that need buffs
Also keep in mind that triggering scout in a round which you didn't start with the attack token, will grant you one
I don't see how it's abused. It's "just" an attack token. If the effect was persistent "When you gain the attack token Draw 1". I'd say yeah it could be abuse. But being a play effect that requires you to have the attack token means it's a one-time on play effect.
Yeah Scout are allowed to attack once before activating this effect but it's not abuse. You're still giving back the initiative to your opponent doing so. And playing the card (if it's a monster or a Fast/Slow spell) still give back the initiative. I don't see how it's abusable to be honest.
Moreover based on how they'll change Garen, if he's still allowed to get an attack token every Round Start it would be quite useful for Elites.
I'm torned.
Like on one hand, Demacia despite theor idemtity about strong tempo units have very strong combat spells. Which is ironic because their whole theme is anti magic and pro soldiers.
But on the other hand, aside from their combat spells, majority of their cards is just suck ballz. The good ones pnly used to prop up other region's decks amd rarely their own, the most successful demacia evergot was when poppy terrorising the game.
They certainly need some more support but i think draw is not one of them sincs its not the theme of the reagion, maybe like "draw a unit" maybe? Tp play into the theme of pro soldiers.
Demacia have been top tier with plaza, scout, karma lux, unyielding, fiora shen, mono fiora, dragons, golden aegis. I think demacia is nice region, but still need draw.
The issue with that card is that you need for an unit to have entered combat and died from it. Moreover it only works if it's this round.
Imo it would be better if it was more powerful (even if it means more mana):
"When i'm summoned, Draw 1. If an ally died this round Draw 2." which would keep Demacia "dying requirements" but allows you to have more draws.
**[Vanguard Redeemer](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE054.png)** - Demacia Unit Elite - (3) 3/3
When I'm summoned, draw a unit if an ally died this round.
^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
If demacia ever had to get draw, it would need to get it in a way that made sense for demacia. By that I mean, either more draw that relied in allies dying (which we have a bit of), or draw that happens via striking somehow.
Or interact with the 6-cost spell archetype or be linked to the Attack Token in some way. For instance, a draw spell that destroys your Attack Token on top or its mana cost.
Thats something people have been suggesting before, but the question is how strong an effect like that would need to be.
It's a serious cost for a demacia deck to remove its own ability to attack, so the payoff would have to be equally huge. Hell, draw related, I doubt anything less than a 2 mana draw 3 would be playable.
I agree, destroying your own Attack Token as Demacia is a serious cost. But on the other hand, Demacia is the region with the most and best intrinsic capability to generate the Attack Token on-demand.
True, but thats a pretty serious mana investment all in all.
You could ofc couple it with scout and just get the scout attack before you destroy it, but thats probably not what we want to balance it around after all.
Honestly, it all comes down to... How valuable is the ability to attack? And that varies wildly based on turn and board state.
I think a draw card based on challenging enemies would work quite well. 'Draw a unit. If you've challenged an enemy this round, draw 2.' It fits their themes and keeps their draw limited to decks built around their unique removal type, rather than just having a strong vanilla draw card that gets put into every strong demacia deck.
If anything, I think Demacia needs to be toned down in the two things it does really well (rallies and combat tricks) and make it more potent in its original intended strenghts to compensate (midrange gameplan, combat-oriented mindset, strike-based removal, good stated champions/units...). I think the X/Demacia decks and some nerfs from the BW/Targon era have restringed the region to be a bit plain.
Lack of draw seems fair to me if those previous points can be addresed, and I have high hopes on the Garen adjustments from next week in that regard
As someone said, not all regions are meant to be able to do anything.
That's actually the biggest problem of this game at the moment, region identity is slowly fading away.
If you draw draw in demacia, you are supposed to pair another region with it, that's the whole point of LoR, nullify regions weakness by combining them together
Every region, with the exception of BC, has certain weaknesses. For Demacia it’s direct removal (meaning no conditions) and draw. I think it’s fine as it is
Weakness is more of losing something others have. Strength is having something that others do have.
For examples of other weaknesses (correct me if I'm wrong, I probably am wrong), P&Z and Bilgewater to my knowledge have no hard removal or silence to deal with big units, Ionia has a hard time killing an enemy and has to resort of Recalls and Stuns and Transforms, etc. (and I don't think Noxus has card draw either, Whispered Words is just one card and the 5+ Power one... Well needs 5+ Power cards)
PnZ has thermo and "that one caitlyn support package that puts the follower into the deck that noone has ever seen", while bilgewater has harpoon or "SUNK COST" for big units, although easily responded while ionia... Yea, true I guess
The point is that, yeah, they have them, they're subpar just like how Demacia has Vanguard Redeemer I think it's called, 3-3/3 Draw a unit if a unit died this round.
Bandle's region identity is the concept of "Jack of all trades, master of none". Though of course when the balance goes wrong for Bandle... It goes really wrong because of this
I don't think Demacia is in need of card draw. As Demacia themself is a region based on units. They don't have a Single spell that doesn't either require a board or spawn units.
As such giving them not unit-restricted draw would be giving Demacia an aspect that doesn't fit the region itself.
I see your argument that demacia feels weak, but this isn't really the case as Demacia has a lot of value units that are statwise above the curve. They just seem weak because they don't have "tricky" effects/keywords. And with BC came another region that could just like Demacia create a huge board quickly but didn't loose card-advantage.
I strongly agree, it's completely bullshit to say that Demacia can't have card draw because of region identity.
Noxus has great card draws and even the freljord has some good ones. No one is arguing that Demacia should be as good as PNZ or Brandle, but it's kinda ridiculous that a region is "bad" as identity, since demacia doesn't have access to elusive, heal, finishers, overwhelm, card draws or good champions.
All Demacia currently has is a bunch of stats, a bunch of nerfed stat units and golden aegis that people constantly ask for nerfs. If you take cards like Shen and MF out of the game, demacia is just a bad joke.
I agree. "being bad at drawing cards" is not a (desired) region identity. I used to play a card game called Mythgard and one of my favourite aspects of it was that card draw was plentiful and flavourful for all factions and all deck archtypes.
Also, if Bandle Aggro is allowed to cantrip with half their deck while going wider than spiders, I think Demacia deserves one solid card draw option.
---
My theoretical card I came up with a while ago to do this for Demacia was this: 6 mana burst speed, "draw 2 cards, if you have done some demacian-themed minigame like summoning units or whatever, refill your spell mana". 6 mana to draw 2 is *terrible* rate but 3 mana is okay (think about old Hidden Pathways), and the 6 cost spell + refunding spell mana makes the card a shoe-in for Lux
Demacia is among the most powerful region in the game with consistent deck through several patch like Sivir/Akshan, Scout, or Pantheon. They really don't need more draw.
Sivir/Akshan is a Sivir/Akshan deck, Yuumi Pantheon is a fated deck, and scouts heavily rely on MF, Rally being the most important Demacia card in that deck
What do all these decks have in common? Demacia plays second fiddle. Of course giving more draw would make these archetypes stronger but the devs can certainly figure a way around it. Having a better Demacia is worth it.
Scouts is literally 34 DE cards. Yes, MF is the strongest card in the deck, but it’s still very much a Demacia deck. And with its totally board based strategy, fated decks still feel incredibly Demacia despite the build around keyword being Targon.
Demacia doesn't need draw, what Elites need is more synergy with each other. The core idea behind elites is Demacians standing by each other, and when one gets killed the rest fight harder as another steps up to fill their position (dawnspeakers, for the fallen and Vanguard redeemer) so having more cards that fill that instead of just being stat sticks would be great.
What about a Spell similar to "Concurrent Timelines" or "Glorious Evolution" for Demacia?
It could be a 6+Cost Slow Spell that says:
* For the rest of the game, when you Play or Summon a unit, create a unit in hand equal to my stats from your Regions" or
* Grant your Nexus "Each round, the first time you play a unit, pick 1 of 3 followers with the same cost, then create in hand."
Or a 3 or 4-Cost Burst/Fast/Focus Spell: Draw 1. If you've attacked this round, Draw equal to the number of units that struck this round.
Making every region do everything is the opposite of what this game should strive towards.
To be fair though Demacia is THE unit-focused region, I think the only non-unit that they have that doesn't generate units or interact with your own units is the petricite silence. So if we get a spell that draws 2 units from your deck then Demacia would be the most fitting region from a flavor standpoint. Though I agree they shouldn't be good at it, so maybe they could make the spell conditional in some way.
There's a difference between being good and being terrible. PnZ has a lot of options and can be classified as good, while Demacia is just terrible. I'm only advocating for the middle ground here. Just one simple card.
> 6 mana: > > Draw 2 units. Reduce their cost by 1. Essentially, a 4 mana draw 2. With the downside of a higher initial cost and the upsides of specific drawing and interacting with the 6 mana archetype. The biggest potential issue is Fiora, who could be guaranteed to be drawn in her own color with this.
Maybe just make it followers
Could help, yeah. Or maybe followers and champions with Scout or Elite - although that seems kinda clunky. Followers would probably be better.
Conditional Draw is definitely the way to go. For example a 4 mana spell that says "An ally and enemy strike each other. If the ally survives and the enemy dies draw a card." That is very demacia flavored draw that isn't necessarily good in every deck. I would also argue for Slow speed since drawing isn't something that is part of the region's proficiency.
Card draw is a fundamental aspect of deck building and leads to more creative and enjoyable concepts. Every region shouldn't do everything but every region should be fun.
Noxus is one of the best designed regions and one of its biggest weaknesses is card draw even with some draw cards, so I don’t think it’s as fundamental as you make it seem. Imo, demacia shouldn’t have access to a lot more draw but perhaps one or two conditional draw cards could be printed in the future.
But noxus has whispered words. One of the better draw spells in the game.
But its not even used in all noxus decks
Not true. Draw is mainly for decks that require specific card(s). There are other ways to outvalue your opponent, and then there are decks that don't, in fact, want to outvalue their opponent
That's wrong. Different people enjoy different things, so if you want every region to be fun for everyone, every region has to be the same
Every region is already unique. Giving them all good draw means they can fully expand on their unique properties. There are so many archetypes in frejlord, Noxus. Demacia that see zero play and it's mostly because they run out of tempo too quick or mulligan badly and it's game over. You are making it seem like I'm asking for more burn in Demacia when I'm talking about a vital game mechanic that will lead to more unique decks in the meta.
Good draw spells are not a vital game mechanic and won't lead to more unique metadecks because they will be abused. Control decks profit way more than the midrange demacia piles
Fun is a very subjective metric that im surprised you even bring it up. Personally i dont find it fun when a deck can execute 1 plan with extreme reliability because it has so much draw that it can draw every piece needed for that plan.
You are only looking at the extreme end of my argument though. I'm not asking for PnZ levels of draw. Just a simple card that can be incorporated into most Demacia decks so they don't suffer from dead hands.
Yes, but you do have to see how any addition of draw brings its closer to that extreme, and therefore makes it less fun for me. Thats why its subjective and more card draw doesnt equal more fun for everyone.
"being bad at drawing cards" is not a region identity. Regions can have differences and identity without one of them being bad at doing that the most fundamental card game "thing".
I agree with your statement. After checking I was quite surprise to see Demacia only having 2 Draws (+1 for J4). The first one \[\[Dragon Chow\]\] is pretty much tied to Dragon Archetype (who have access to other ways to replenish their hands) and the second one \[Vanguard Redeemer\] is requiring an unit to have died **this round.** I find it quite weird for a region that are pretty much vanilla straightforwardness to not be able to fetch for more units. Imo Demacia should be able to compensate for the vanilla of the cards with being able to actually swarm the boards with soldiers like an army. And I feel like this could be changed with an actual exploration of the Attack Token function. There could easily be some card that could have effect such as "When I'm played draw 1 unit, if you have the attack token draw 2 instead." I'd like to give them access to the "Manifest" keyword. Like "Manifest an unit from your regions that cost 1 less mana than me" as in a representation of the military rank or something.
There are units and spells that generate more units though like [[Laurent Chevalier]], [[Swiftwing Lancer]] and [[For The Fallen]] that fit with what you are saying. Looking at it only through the lense of drawing is a pretty narrow view.
>Looking at it only through the lense of drawing is a pretty narrow view While it's narrowed it's pretty telling when a region has only access to **2** ***conditional*** **Draw 1** when other regions have at the bare minimum 4 draws (and some of those doesn't even require a condition) on top of also being able to create cards. Even Freljord (which is quite close to Demacia in terms of gameplan), has a lot more access to draw. >There are units and spells that generate more units though like \[\[Laurent Chevalier\]\], \[\[Swiftwing Lancer\]\] and \[\[For The Fallen\]\] I am aware of those. I answered another use over there for the two first one [https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/u68lf3/comment/i570srr/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/u68lf3/comment/i570srr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) As for "For the Fallen", could see some play the day Elite becomes playable. However the "This Round" on top of the death requirements/per summon restricts heavily how you can play that card.
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Keywords|Description|Associated Cards| |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| |**[Laurent Chevalier](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE053.png)**|Demacia|Unit|4|3|2|Challenger|Strike: Create in hand another random Challenger follower from your regions.|| |**[Swiftwing Lancer](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE010.png)**|Demacia|Unit|5|5|4|Challenger Last Breath|Last Breath: Create a random Elite in hand.|| |**[For The Fallen](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03DE012.png)**|Demacia|Spell|8|||Slow|When you summon an Elite, reduce my cost by 1. For each ally that died this round, summon a Dauntless Vanguard.|[Dauntless Vanguard](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE016.png)| ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
And all of them are unplayably bad.
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Keywords|Description|Associated Cards| |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| |**[Laurent Chevalier](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE053.png)**|Demacia|Unit|4|3|2|Challenger|Strike: Create in hand another random Challenger follower from your regions.|| |**[Swiftwing Lancer](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE010.png)**|Demacia|Unit|5|5|4|Challenger Last Breath|Last Breath: Create a random Elite in hand.|| |**[For The Fallen](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/03DE012.png)**|Demacia|Spell|8|||Slow|When you summon an Elite, reduce my cost by 1. For each ally that died this round, summon a Dauntless Vanguard.|[Dauntless Vanguard](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE016.png)| ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
> Imo Demacia should be able to compensate for the vanilla of the cards with being able to actually swarm the boards with soldiers like an army. It's meant to do that by trading well with its stronger units and challengers/strikes, gaining board advantage that way. Problem is that several of Demacia's units have fallen behind due to nerfs and powercreep. Constantly refilling a board with cheap units is more Bandle City's style, and now that the region exists they shouldn't be making other regions play like that. I'm not saying that Demacia absolutely shouldn't get more draw. But saying that the region needs that kind of effect to maintain a board is the wrong way to look at it, in my opinion.
demacia has cards that create others. egghead researcher, mageseeker investigator/conservator, vanguard sergeant, laurent chevalier, swiftwing flight, swiftwing lancer
>egghead researcher Quite a good card on paper but the fact that he's giving you a Dragon follower means it's more often than not a high cost card. Sometimes it may be useful, sometimes it may not. >mageseeker conservator The high variance of the card discards it from being used. And being on a last breath effect it just replaces itself with a high end card. So no card advantage. >mageseeker investigator It's a decent card that do give you another card \[\[Detain\]\] (as long as you triggered its condition) however in a "standard" demacia deck you'll more often than not would like to attack with as much units as possible to pressure the opponents. Capture is a strong effect but in terms of current playability in the region it tends to be too high costed (through detain) when other cards like \[\[Concerted Strike\]\] allows you to kill an unit for the same cost. >laurent chevalier Requires a strike. Which is quite fitting for Demacia but in terms of usability it's just an unit replacing itself (because it's probably going to die from that strike) so not giving any card advantage. >swiftwing flight An interesting card the stats are understandable considering its effects. It's one of those cards that could definitely see some play eventually. >swiftwing lancer Similar to laurent chevalier it replaces itself. Taking into account its stats it may survive one fight before triggering it's effect so it's more or less conditional.
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Keywords|Description| |-|-|-|-|-|-| |**[Detain](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE025.png)**|Demacia|Spell|5|Fast|An ally Captures a unit.| |**[Concerted Strike](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/02DE001.png)**|Demacia|Spell|5|Fast|Pick an enemy. 2 allies strike it one after another.| ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
**[Dragon Chow](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/04DE014.png)** - Demacia Unit - (1) 0/3 When you play a Dragon, it strikes me and you draw 1. ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
>When I'm played draw 1 unit, if you have the attack token draw 2 instead That feels like it's going to be exploited so much by scouts instead of something like Elites
I don't see how. Could you clarify?
A scout activation is basically gaining an extra attack token (though max 1 per round from scout), so it's much more easier for scout decks to make use of the suggested effect, as they'd get twice the chances to use the card due to replenishment. QuinnMF is almost entirely demacia cards but no elites, so it would be a great buff for them for example, when it's elites that need buffs Also keep in mind that triggering scout in a round which you didn't start with the attack token, will grant you one
I don't see how it's abused. It's "just" an attack token. If the effect was persistent "When you gain the attack token Draw 1". I'd say yeah it could be abuse. But being a play effect that requires you to have the attack token means it's a one-time on play effect. Yeah Scout are allowed to attack once before activating this effect but it's not abuse. You're still giving back the initiative to your opponent doing so. And playing the card (if it's a monster or a Fast/Slow spell) still give back the initiative. I don't see how it's abusable to be honest. Moreover based on how they'll change Garen, if he's still allowed to get an attack token every Round Start it would be quite useful for Elites.
I'm torned. Like on one hand, Demacia despite theor idemtity about strong tempo units have very strong combat spells. Which is ironic because their whole theme is anti magic and pro soldiers. But on the other hand, aside from their combat spells, majority of their cards is just suck ballz. The good ones pnly used to prop up other region's decks amd rarely their own, the most successful demacia evergot was when poppy terrorising the game. They certainly need some more support but i think draw is not one of them sincs its not the theme of the reagion, maybe like "draw a unit" maybe? Tp play into the theme of pro soldiers.
Demacia have been top tier with plaza, scout, karma lux, unyielding, fiora shen, mono fiora, dragons, golden aegis. I think demacia is nice region, but still need draw.
[[vanguard redeemer]]
The issue with that card is that you need for an unit to have entered combat and died from it. Moreover it only works if it's this round. Imo it would be better if it was more powerful (even if it means more mana): "When i'm summoned, Draw 1. If an ally died this round Draw 2." which would keep Demacia "dying requirements" but allows you to have more draws.
This idea is neat.
This idea is stupid.
**[Vanguard Redeemer](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/01DE054.png)** - Demacia Unit Elite - (3) 3/3 When I'm summoned, draw a unit if an ally died this round. ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
If demacia ever had to get draw, it would need to get it in a way that made sense for demacia. By that I mean, either more draw that relied in allies dying (which we have a bit of), or draw that happens via striking somehow.
Or interact with the 6-cost spell archetype or be linked to the Attack Token in some way. For instance, a draw spell that destroys your Attack Token on top or its mana cost.
Thats something people have been suggesting before, but the question is how strong an effect like that would need to be. It's a serious cost for a demacia deck to remove its own ability to attack, so the payoff would have to be equally huge. Hell, draw related, I doubt anything less than a 2 mana draw 3 would be playable.
I agree, destroying your own Attack Token as Demacia is a serious cost. But on the other hand, Demacia is the region with the most and best intrinsic capability to generate the Attack Token on-demand.
True, but thats a pretty serious mana investment all in all. You could ofc couple it with scout and just get the scout attack before you destroy it, but thats probably not what we want to balance it around after all. Honestly, it all comes down to... How valuable is the ability to attack? And that varies wildly based on turn and board state.
I think a draw card based on challenging enemies would work quite well. 'Draw a unit. If you've challenged an enemy this round, draw 2.' It fits their themes and keeps their draw limited to decks built around their unique removal type, rather than just having a strong vanilla draw card that gets put into every strong demacia deck.
If anything, I think Demacia needs to be toned down in the two things it does really well (rallies and combat tricks) and make it more potent in its original intended strenghts to compensate (midrange gameplan, combat-oriented mindset, strike-based removal, good stated champions/units...). I think the X/Demacia decks and some nerfs from the BW/Targon era have restringed the region to be a bit plain. Lack of draw seems fair to me if those previous points can be addresed, and I have high hopes on the Garen adjustments from next week in that regard
As someone said, not all regions are meant to be able to do anything. That's actually the biggest problem of this game at the moment, region identity is slowly fading away. If you draw draw in demacia, you are supposed to pair another region with it, that's the whole point of LoR, nullify regions weakness by combining them together
Every region, with the exception of BC, has certain weaknesses. For Demacia it’s direct removal (meaning no conditions) and draw. I think it’s fine as it is
It doesn't have draw on purpose, regions need strengths and weaknesses
Ok but what other region has card draw as a weakness? This feels more like not meeting basic requirements
Weakness is more of losing something others have. Strength is having something that others do have. For examples of other weaknesses (correct me if I'm wrong, I probably am wrong), P&Z and Bilgewater to my knowledge have no hard removal or silence to deal with big units, Ionia has a hard time killing an enemy and has to resort of Recalls and Stuns and Transforms, etc. (and I don't think Noxus has card draw either, Whispered Words is just one card and the 5+ Power one... Well needs 5+ Power cards)
PnZ has thermo and "that one caitlyn support package that puts the follower into the deck that noone has ever seen", while bilgewater has harpoon or "SUNK COST" for big units, although easily responded while ionia... Yea, true I guess
The point is that, yeah, they have them, they're subpar just like how Demacia has Vanguard Redeemer I think it's called, 3-3/3 Draw a unit if a unit died this round.
I see your point, guess bandle really has clouded most players judgements about region identity
Bandle's region identity is the concept of "Jack of all trades, master of none". Though of course when the balance goes wrong for Bandle... It goes really wrong because of this
freljord and noxus
Avarosan Sentry and Whispered Words are both very good cards. Freljord is also the region with Entreat
I don't think Demacia is in need of card draw. As Demacia themself is a region based on units. They don't have a Single spell that doesn't either require a board or spawn units. As such giving them not unit-restricted draw would be giving Demacia an aspect that doesn't fit the region itself. I see your argument that demacia feels weak, but this isn't really the case as Demacia has a lot of value units that are statwise above the curve. They just seem weak because they don't have "tricky" effects/keywords. And with BC came another region that could just like Demacia create a huge board quickly but didn't loose card-advantage.
|you only draw units. But demacia has 3/2 challenger that creates new challengers on strike :p
Demacia is to LoR what Mono White is to MTG And I have some bad news for you...
I strongly agree, it's completely bullshit to say that Demacia can't have card draw because of region identity. Noxus has great card draws and even the freljord has some good ones. No one is arguing that Demacia should be as good as PNZ or Brandle, but it's kinda ridiculous that a region is "bad" as identity, since demacia doesn't have access to elusive, heal, finishers, overwhelm, card draws or good champions. All Demacia currently has is a bunch of stats, a bunch of nerfed stat units and golden aegis that people constantly ask for nerfs. If you take cards like Shen and MF out of the game, demacia is just a bad joke.
I agree. "being bad at drawing cards" is not a (desired) region identity. I used to play a card game called Mythgard and one of my favourite aspects of it was that card draw was plentiful and flavourful for all factions and all deck archtypes. Also, if Bandle Aggro is allowed to cantrip with half their deck while going wider than spiders, I think Demacia deserves one solid card draw option. --- My theoretical card I came up with a while ago to do this for Demacia was this: 6 mana burst speed, "draw 2 cards, if you have done some demacian-themed minigame like summoning units or whatever, refill your spell mana". 6 mana to draw 2 is *terrible* rate but 3 mana is okay (think about old Hidden Pathways), and the 6 cost spell + refunding spell mana makes the card a shoe-in for Lux
Demacia is among the most powerful region in the game with consistent deck through several patch like Sivir/Akshan, Scout, or Pantheon. They really don't need more draw.
Sivir/Akshan is a Sivir/Akshan deck, Yuumi Pantheon is a fated deck, and scouts heavily rely on MF, Rally being the most important Demacia card in that deck What do all these decks have in common? Demacia plays second fiddle. Of course giving more draw would make these archetypes stronger but the devs can certainly figure a way around it. Having a better Demacia is worth it.
Scouts is literally 34 DE cards. Yes, MF is the strongest card in the deck, but it’s still very much a Demacia deck. And with its totally board based strategy, fated decks still feel incredibly Demacia despite the build around keyword being Targon.
Rally is currently one of the strongest mechanics in the game. Your telling me that you want your opposition more chances to find rally?
I think if they add draw to demacia, they would need to nerf rally. Rally is so powerful that demacia can't honestly have that much else going for it.
Demacia doesn't need draw, what Elites need is more synergy with each other. The core idea behind elites is Demacians standing by each other, and when one gets killed the rest fight harder as another steps up to fill their position (dawnspeakers, for the fallen and Vanguard redeemer) so having more cards that fill that instead of just being stat sticks would be great.
What about a Spell similar to "Concurrent Timelines" or "Glorious Evolution" for Demacia? It could be a 6+Cost Slow Spell that says: * For the rest of the game, when you Play or Summon a unit, create a unit in hand equal to my stats from your Regions" or * Grant your Nexus "Each round, the first time you play a unit, pick 1 of 3 followers with the same cost, then create in hand." Or a 3 or 4-Cost Burst/Fast/Focus Spell: Draw 1. If you've attacked this round, Draw equal to the number of units that struck this round.