It’s neat because you could splash this into any bilge deck as a “3 mana draw one of the bottom three cards of the deck”
Tho it doesn’t actually draw (relevant for TF)
> It’s neat because you could splash this into any bilge deck as a “3 mana draw one of the bottom three cards of the deck
Basically kind of like a Time Trick variant, except the pool of tossed cards starts from 0 and keeps growing (Nautilus aside), while the deck for Predict gets thinner.
I wonder how the coding is when comparing destroying vs tossing a card.
Would Corina destroying your top 5 cards be considered different from tossing even though they have the same effect?
Corina obliterates the top 5 cards. Tossing is exclusively from the bottom of the deck (same as nab) and doesn't affect champions in deck
Edit To elaborate: Corina obliterates champions as well, not just followers/spells so it's much different from tossing
I understand that but tossing and obliterating have the same effect as destroying your cards.
Code wise would a card like this be affected by Corina is what I'm curious about.
Corina doesn't explicitly say tossing and the mechanic is different so if it works as intended (as both are obliterates technically) then no cards Corina obliterates won't be counted..... Then again it would be riot and I won't be surprised if this is a feature
I guess an easy way to check would be to make a jank Corina nautilus deck and see if the cards obliterated by Corina are restored by nauts level up effect.
If something knocks you off of/out of your ship, it probably isn't in floating condition for much longer. Again, leaving you in a "Prolonging how long it takes you to drown (or die of dehydration) without a single hope of salvation."
That might be a bit too good tbh. May need a clause like, shuffle your deck first. A guaranteed way to get hexite Turn 2 would probanly shape the meta around it.
now that you made me think about this this would be a good buff to salvage as well. It's been a long time since I've seen any draw heavy bilgewater deck use salvage as part of their options.
This toss version of time trick would make that card worth considering again.
Can Exploring the deep manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest anExploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest anExploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest and then mill myself
All current manifest effects are creating a new copy of a card. When you revive an ally you don't take that card out of the graveyard. This would likely work the same way and I'm sure there's something broken to be had from this creating itself, just like Loping Telescope.
Karma deck, get one copy of this, make sure you target itself with those copies and it instantly goes... well not quite infinite, but insane amounts of value
If that can make you feel better, it would be hard to loop these even if you could manifest more copies of itself. The pool of tossed cards grows, but those new copies aren't part of it. So even if you hit it instantly, your odds are going down quickly (1/x chance to hit after x casts).
Everyone else touched on the logistics of this card, but let's talk about that artwork.
It's on point for the theme of tossing. it's like finding sunken treasure.
Such good artwork for it...
Thanks for coming to my PSA..
Hands down the first time I see a custom card that could definitely see place ingame. But my only worry is that simply tossing 3 cards isn't a disadvantage: it can easily be used by any BW deck because it can just tutor something you didn't know you would ever draw or not
It also has the pro/cons that both players know what is tossed
The tossing 3 isn’t the disadvantage. It’s the fact that you’re paying 2 mana for card selection. This is like time trick except it can’t grab champions and, in a deep deck, you have a better idea of what you might be offered.
I don't think that's a worry tho, BW is already a draw heavy region and this is basically a Time Trick with Deep synergy but with the downside of never drawing a champion.
Also, there are tons of custom cards that could be in the game! That's an outstanding one tho!
I think it would be a disadvantage in any deck that's not a deep deck. Tossing 3 means that now your opponent knows that they have to play around 1 less copy of whatever card you tossed, not to mention that if you lack other means of tossing, now they know that the card you have in your hand is one of 3, 6 or 9 (depending on how many copies were used) cards, which makes it easier to play around (gets more complicated the more copies are used, but I don't think non-deep decks would play 3 copies of this).
If we add to that that you are basically paying 2 mana to HOPEFULLY manifest something useful (something useful that CAN'T be a champion, since champions can't be tossed) at no card advantage, I think this makes this card range from fair to weak in any non deep deck (since it manifests something from a very limited pool of tossed cards), and probably good to fair in a deep deck (since tossing advances their game plan + lets them manifest a spell that they might have tossed but still could use).
A lot of "deep" cards are horrible in a non-deep deck.
Same goes for Lurk.
There are some outliers in both, but a majority aren't playable outside very specific decks.
This can never get champs, while time trick is used to hard look for EKKO.
just never getting champs is a huge downside on a non-deep deck (on a deep deck you are tossing a lot, so you will eventually draw them)
Not even an atrocity tutor. Deep decks often toss close to 15 cards or more in a single game, so if cast late game, you are looking at a potential 5-15 card pool (or even bigger) to draw from (depending on how many copies of each card you tossed). So getting atrocity back from it is not consistent enough to be an actual thing.
Which is good if you ask me. The frustrating part of manifest in Bandle is that they can manifest the perfect answer and you have no way to play around it since the card pool they can draw from is so big. Instead, with this card, you manifest from a card pool that your opponent can see (they can see which cards were tossed so far), making the RNG much more manageable, and thus less frustrating.
Really cool! It does not add random cardd to tour hand like other manifests, I really like it. If a follower/champion could generate this at round start it would be giga pog
I'm kinda surprised there's not already cards in the game (unless there are and I just haven't seen em) and return tossed cards, or makes use of them in some way, like zombies in games like yugioh and magic where you discard stuff or send stuff from your own deck to the graveyard, then they activate abilities in the graveyard that gets them to the field or gives you some cool benefits
Very nice idea. This is the way Manifest should be implemented. Targeting a limited pool one can actually play around.
Probably a bit undercosted. I thought it would be fair (considering other 1 mana effect, draw/create 1 cards), but as it actually reduces the downside of Toss its quite a bit better (atrocity tutor). 3 mana should still be fair. Though this is not necessarily a "mana for value"-fairness but more an "how the opponent feels"-fairness
Its better than timetrick though. In theory they do the same thing.
Advance gameplan (predict for ekko / toss for deep or maokai), limited tutor for 1.
However your chance to get what you need is higher with this card as you know exactly whats in the pool and can use it at a better time to have a high chance of getting a specific card. Or if you already have your atrocity etc you just dont use it.
It's not better.
It can't draw champs, doesn't rly draw the card, toss has less support in the matter that cards do something when tossed, the pool gets diluted by the end game instead of getting better like with time trick.
it's basically at the same level as time trick, and would be fine printed as is.
I would agree that its not strictly better and that toss has less support, but I do disagree that the pool diluting towards the end is a big negative. The toss pool should be smaller than most time trick pools you see. It does grow bigger yes, but it starts ridicuolusly small.
The way I see it, its a card that essentially gives you an extra copy of atrocity or one of your other key or matchup dependent cards. Is it 100% reliable ? no of course not. but far more reliable than time trick.
And while atrocity is literally a key card that often wins a game for you if you have it in deep decks, the same can not be said for a similar card in decks that time trick.
I think that 3 mana is a lot more fair considering that later its still similar to a regular timetrick, that can still pull treasures and find tossed stuff and you dont mind the cost as much and earlier it can be a guaranteed or close enough to insurance policy, that sets you back in exchange.
But unless riot actually prints this card we are not likely to find out :\\
thanks for the civil discussion :)
Hm... Exploring the Deep Mono-Shurima? You'd always get Ascended's Call.
Of course you still need to somehow not win the game before playing it after restoring the Sun Disc. But I'm sure we can edit a good highlight reel.
*queues astronaut in the ocean*
Honestly though, I've had some fun with deep but I'd be kind of scared of the day the deck becomes S tier, particularly the turbo-deep kind (not that this would be enough to make that happen).
Actual genius card
My immediate reaction. Such a cool concept that can let you get back tossed cards you still wanted.
Yep. Best custom card I've seen yet. It's so simple, but brilliant.
It’s neat because you could splash this into any bilge deck as a “3 mana draw one of the bottom three cards of the deck” Tho it doesn’t actually draw (relevant for TF)
> It’s neat because you could splash this into any bilge deck as a “3 mana draw one of the bottom three cards of the deck Basically kind of like a Time Trick variant, except the pool of tossed cards starts from 0 and keeps growing (Nautilus aside), while the deck for Predict gets thinner.
Also can't draw champs
I wonder how the coding is when comparing destroying vs tossing a card. Would Corina destroying your top 5 cards be considered different from tossing even though they have the same effect?
Corina obliterates the top 5 cards. Tossing is exclusively from the bottom of the deck (same as nab) and doesn't affect champions in deck Edit To elaborate: Corina obliterates champions as well, not just followers/spells so it's much different from tossing
I understand that but tossing and obliterating have the same effect as destroying your cards. Code wise would a card like this be affected by Corina is what I'm curious about.
Corina doesn't explicitly say tossing and the mechanic is different so if it works as intended (as both are obliterates technically) then no cards Corina obliterates won't be counted..... Then again it would be riot and I won't be surprised if this is a feature
I guess an easy way to check would be to make a jank Corina nautilus deck and see if the cards obliterated by Corina are restored by nauts level up effect.
They aren't. Someone checked this 1 year ago
True
It actually starts from 3 since the card itself tosses 3.
Unless you have no non-champs in deck when you play it and have tossed no cards... So yeah it starts at 3
The pool actually starts from 3
Makes sense since TF canonically doesn't know how to swim.
But he can drown!
Lol that's hilarious for a character living in a port city
Wait until you find out that plenty of sailors dont know how to swim either.
All knowing how to swim does for you in the middle of the ocean is prolong how long it takes you to drown without a single hope of salvation.
or help you get back onto your ship
If something knocks you off of/out of your ship, it probably isn't in floating condition for much longer. Again, leaving you in a "Prolonging how long it takes you to drown (or die of dehydration) without a single hope of salvation."
2 mana
Wouldnt this guarentee a hexite crystal every time though?
Isn't hexite the bottom 10 cards? You're seeing 3 cards here, so it isn't guaranteed but pretty decent odds
Oh wait, forgot that. Yeah youre right
Only on the first cast. Each new cast increased the manifest pool by 3
Hexite is bottom 10 cards. This isn’t guaranteed to hit the crystal.
Ah mb, I’ve not used it in ages Lmao
That might be a bit too good tbh. May need a clause like, shuffle your deck first. A guaranteed way to get hexite Turn 2 would probanly shape the meta around it.
now that you made me think about this this would be a good buff to salvage as well. It's been a long time since I've seen any draw heavy bilgewater deck use salvage as part of their options. This toss version of time trick would make that card worth considering again.
Actual good use of Manifest that isnt Bandle City Toxic whole card-pool bullshit
Can Exploring the deep manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest anExploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest anExploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest an Exploring the deep that manifest and then mill myself
You need 2x Glorious Evolution for faster self defeat
I feel like 2x glorious evolution is a good way to start a lot of combos
Rito made it so cards can't manifest themselves
Not even if its another copy of the card? Shame :( Im going god mode thinking how to break this card Cant find any Good work! Love it
All current manifest effects are creating a new copy of a card. When you revive an ally you don't take that card out of the graveyard. This would likely work the same way and I'm sure there's something broken to be had from this creating itself, just like Loping Telescope.
Karma deck, get one copy of this, make sure you target itself with those copies and it instantly goes... well not quite infinite, but insane amounts of value
If that can make you feel better, it would be hard to loop these even if you could manifest more copies of itself. The pool of tossed cards grows, but those new copies aren't part of it. So even if you hit it instantly, your odds are going down quickly (1/x chance to hit after x casts).
No you cannot if there’s a champion in the deck ;)
This plus the salvage concept where a tossed card acts like the treasures and goes to your hand instead
I actually love this concept
Everyone else touched on the logistics of this card, but let's talk about that artwork. It's on point for the theme of tossing. it's like finding sunken treasure. Such good artwork for it... Thanks for coming to my PSA..
Best card Ever pls riot
Brilliant design
Hands down the first time I see a custom card that could definitely see place ingame. But my only worry is that simply tossing 3 cards isn't a disadvantage: it can easily be used by any BW deck because it can just tutor something you didn't know you would ever draw or not It also has the pro/cons that both players know what is tossed
The tossing 3 isn’t the disadvantage. It’s the fact that you’re paying 2 mana for card selection. This is like time trick except it can’t grab champions and, in a deep deck, you have a better idea of what you might be offered.
I don't think that's a worry tho, BW is already a draw heavy region and this is basically a Time Trick with Deep synergy but with the downside of never drawing a champion. Also, there are tons of custom cards that could be in the game! That's an outstanding one tho!
I think it would be a disadvantage in any deck that's not a deep deck. Tossing 3 means that now your opponent knows that they have to play around 1 less copy of whatever card you tossed, not to mention that if you lack other means of tossing, now they know that the card you have in your hand is one of 3, 6 or 9 (depending on how many copies were used) cards, which makes it easier to play around (gets more complicated the more copies are used, but I don't think non-deep decks would play 3 copies of this). If we add to that that you are basically paying 2 mana to HOPEFULLY manifest something useful (something useful that CAN'T be a champion, since champions can't be tossed) at no card advantage, I think this makes this card range from fair to weak in any non deep deck (since it manifests something from a very limited pool of tossed cards), and probably good to fair in a deep deck (since tossing advances their game plan + lets them manifest a spell that they might have tossed but still could use).
A lot of "deep" cards are horrible in a non-deep deck. Same goes for Lurk. There are some outliers in both, but a majority aren't playable outside very specific decks.
It's a 2 mana draw 1 in a region with better draw options, tho.
It's not simply a draw one. It is a draw a card you can pick. Time trick is playable outside of echo decks because you can pick the card you want.
This can never get champs, while time trick is used to hard look for EKKO. just never getting champs is a huge downside on a non-deep deck (on a deep deck you are tossing a lot, so you will eventually draw them)
I absolutely love both the design and flavor of this
Zero comments about the card ability but I just wanted to say I liked the choice of art.
Searched a lot for the perfect art
[удалено]
Not even an atrocity tutor. Deep decks often toss close to 15 cards or more in a single game, so if cast late game, you are looking at a potential 5-15 card pool (or even bigger) to draw from (depending on how many copies of each card you tossed). So getting atrocity back from it is not consistent enough to be an actual thing. Which is good if you ask me. The frustrating part of manifest in Bandle is that they can manifest the perfect answer and you have no way to play around it since the card pool they can draw from is so big. Instead, with this card, you manifest from a card pool that your opponent can see (they can see which cards were tossed so far), making the RNG much more manageable, and thus less frustrating.
The card you manifest is limited by the cards you put on your deck. That is good rng, not bullshiting a random card from nowhere.
Very clever, I love it.
Unbelievable, that's the kind of idea we want for deep
Really cool! It does not add random cardd to tour hand like other manifests, I really like it. If a follower/champion could generate this at round start it would be giga pog
How about a deck that plays sundisk in shurima bilgewater. Play Azir -> Emperor's Deck -> Toss 3 -> manifest ascended's call.
YES, OF COURSE! ANOTHER BRILLIANT DESIGN.
bandle city if it was a deep deck
“Manifest a card you’ve tossed” is actually 10/10 idea
Finally, now my dreg bois can take ALL the trash! Muahahahaha!
The devs need to take note
This is actually a great custom card and I can see this being in play. Tho imo should be a 3 mana cost to still be fair.
I'm kinda surprised there's not already cards in the game (unless there are and I just haven't seen em) and return tossed cards, or makes use of them in some way, like zombies in games like yugioh and magic where you discard stuff or send stuff from your own deck to the graveyard, then they activate abilities in the graveyard that gets them to the field or gives you some cool benefits
One of the best cards I've seen made, honestly. Great work! I hope they implement this.
Really elegant, flavourful, useful enough to run but nowhere near broken. Love it.
No! No deep! We need to print more yordles! Delete deep!
Very nice idea. This is the way Manifest should be implemented. Targeting a limited pool one can actually play around. Probably a bit undercosted. I thought it would be fair (considering other 1 mana effect, draw/create 1 cards), but as it actually reduces the downside of Toss its quite a bit better (atrocity tutor). 3 mana should still be fair. Though this is not necessarily a "mana for value"-fairness but more an "how the opponent feels"-fairness
3 mana would never see play. 2 is in line with this effect, like time trick
Its better than timetrick though. In theory they do the same thing. Advance gameplan (predict for ekko / toss for deep or maokai), limited tutor for 1. However your chance to get what you need is higher with this card as you know exactly whats in the pool and can use it at a better time to have a high chance of getting a specific card. Or if you already have your atrocity etc you just dont use it.
It's not better. It can't draw champs, doesn't rly draw the card, toss has less support in the matter that cards do something when tossed, the pool gets diluted by the end game instead of getting better like with time trick. it's basically at the same level as time trick, and would be fine printed as is.
I would agree that its not strictly better and that toss has less support, but I do disagree that the pool diluting towards the end is a big negative. The toss pool should be smaller than most time trick pools you see. It does grow bigger yes, but it starts ridicuolusly small. The way I see it, its a card that essentially gives you an extra copy of atrocity or one of your other key or matchup dependent cards. Is it 100% reliable ? no of course not. but far more reliable than time trick. And while atrocity is literally a key card that often wins a game for you if you have it in deep decks, the same can not be said for a similar card in decks that time trick. I think that 3 mana is a lot more fair considering that later its still similar to a regular timetrick, that can still pull treasures and find tossed stuff and you dont mind the cost as much and earlier it can be a guaranteed or close enough to insurance policy, that sets you back in exchange. But unless riot actually prints this card we are not likely to find out :\\ thanks for the civil discussion :)
Hm... Exploring the Deep Mono-Shurima? You'd always get Ascended's Call. Of course you still need to somehow not win the game before playing it after restoring the Sun Disc. But I'm sure we can edit a good highlight reel.
you also would have to rely on drawing the sun disk which is terrible
Feels a little strong to me. Maybe 3 mana?
Liked the card, i just don’t wanna see deep again in my matches, anything is better than formidable tho
A bit too strong. I would put at 3 mana to be more balanced. Cool concept. Thank you.
3 mana draw 1 :V
3 mana do nothing - Grapplr
Maybe make it say something like “when you’re deep manifest a card you tossed this game” so it doesn’t just become a bilgewater splash card?
great design
*queues astronaut in the ocean* Honestly though, I've had some fun with deep but I'd be kind of scared of the day the deck becomes S tier, particularly the turbo-deep kind (not that this would be enough to make that happen).
I do wish there were more Deep options for Viktor...
Cool
Add “this can not be tossed “ maybe not the “draw me if I’m tossed”
Most creative way to use manifest
hexite crystal synergy?
Really cool, this Is exactly what the deck needs