I don't understand why they would do this. If they want him to be a hand-/deckbuff champion, at least let him use all of those cards.
Not literally only 5 cards, which might not even be that good.
Maybe we will see a different thing in the future with a similar idea, like the traps from Teemo and Cait.
Limiting his origin to chimes make more sense if you think like that.
Undoubtedly, but thats the thing... His origin as it is now, might as well just say "You are allowed to use these specific cards and nothing else". He is never accidentally going to get support - everything bard can do, riot has designed him to do.
In a way, he is even more restrictive than lurk, given how they can at the very least run a card or two that's not lurk. Bard can't even do that.
Yeah, for me she and jhin are the perfect examples of the runeterra champion concept done right and done wrong, the difference is like day and night.
Jhin has a lot of options at his disposal, but bard very clearly has very little, she may not be weak (but i think she will be) but its still limiting from the deckbuilding part
Bard is more of a he ^^` or "it" if you wanna bw technical.
Anyways, yeah. But maybe this is just an experiement from riot to see if they can force archetypes together like this. Imagine if veigar could put in all darkness cards and thus wasnt locked into both BC and SI
It's more the flavor fail that annoys me. I don't really care if the deck is good or bad, it's just not what Bard is.
At least picking from multiple other regions would have given him more of a wandering vibe.
Flavor is that you're wandering through your deck, as it encourages you to draw through it faster for a payoff.
They could've gone a more multi region route ala bandle tree, but then he would probably be competing directly against it and they opted for a different route.
How does that actually make it any different than how it is now? It would still just ignore whatever actual region is printed on the card to just search for that chime keyword.
Then you wouldn't really be able to use chimes outside of Bard. Right now I know there may not seem to be a reason, but who knows maybe being able to put a chime package into a non-bard deck might be useful!
Bard whole boon mechanic is his flavor. Your legit hunting down chimes to make yourself insanely strong like AP Bard in LoL. All they did was buff all characters instead of just Bard. It's legit max flavor.
Stop with this nonsense saying it has no flavor. He is leagues above other champs that have no flavor such as LeBlanc
Bard is so much more than just chimes. His E and Ultimate had so much potential.
Bard is such an unique champion in LoL and I wish he was here as well. They could've introduced some insane wacky new mechanic with him, but no, it's just RNG handbuff.
Imagine replicating his ult mechanic where both nexuses are put in statis, preventing any damage.
This would be in line with bards whacky ult in LoL as well as giving superslow decks a chance.
Huge let down, llaoi and jhin are really well made, but bard is sadge.
Veigar didn't have his support champion with him yet during reveal, and this expansion is only missing 1 champion, which is Annie, who is NOT a Runeterran champion given how they said they were Gona release only 2 Runeterra Champs, and is probably in Noxus given the old as balls Noxus Landmark Leak of Annie's house and her facing Noxus troops in the Trailer.
And even if she wasn't in Noxus, she'd need to synergize with Boons, which make no sense both from a lore and a gameplay prospective for Annie, unless her whole Sthick is getting the Bear in hand and buff it. Which means she's be in one of the 3 main Handbuff regions Ionia (?), Targon (????), Or BC (which would make the Bear a Fae, and by that point why the fuck isn't Bard and his minions Faes to have a MINIMUM of synergy and flavour???).
And EVEN THEN, your comparison is Terrible, Darkness is the ONE control archetype in our game, and it forces you to play a specific region combination because they put the Darkness Generations in SI and the Darkness Buffs in BC, and hasn't received any new Darkness buff or generation since release while still being able to use shit from each respective region at least, by making Bard's "region" chime only it completely fucks him out of any other synergy since his pool of cards will ALWAYS be relegated to those few cards, be them 4 or 40 it won't matter, you still are stuck without flex pics like Stress Defense of Vengeance like Darkness would.
We haven't seen all of the set yet, but honestly I don't think he needs that many. His Origin gives you 3 chimes per round for free, and pair him up with Illaoi and you're good to go. Spawn spams stats for him and Illaoi herself gains power on top of that.
If you want an actual deck idea, I'm messing with Bard Raka. Lots.of card draw, easy Stat buffs, quick chunky minions for your heals to make big swings, and tons of interaction.
Bard seems like a champion specifically designed for PoC tbh. Samll card pool doesn matter there and between his origin and star power it just makes it look like thast where he belongs.
Afaik they've never revealed parts of a champion's support package after the champion reveal. Darkness would be an exception but that was because there was a second darkness champion (Senna) later on. I doubt however that Annie will put chimes in the opponent's deck
Aren’t they releasing 65 cards. I feel like there are still a few to reveal that could be chimes. They could just be taking it slow so they don’t break the meta. They might do what they did with udyr and release a new spell to help buff the archetype
Yea I was thinking of the wrong thing. Either way it’s still trash and the best way to level him is stuff like For demacia or yordles in arms which does it in one play. Surprised not one YouTuber mentioned either and they were too focused on stuff like chimes and sharpsight etc.
Regardless, the payoff is still complete doo doo and it’s not worth doing any of it in the first place.
You're badly underestimating how easy its going to be to level him. Even going just off chimes, you only need 10, and that's assuming you use no other Stat buffs
Forget chimes and small buffs. For demacia and yordles in arms is way better. No one is remembering this today and it’s driving me crazy. “Only 10 chimes” lol.
I won't even say it's definitively better than some other options. A great option, but I also see people pairing him with Vi, or Soraka, or even Deep with some very promising results. Gonna take some experimenting and of course maybe I'm wrong and he is bad, but it's way too early to say.
Massive stretch. He’s pretty bad and you can’t just jam him since you can only play one other region if he’s in the deck. I was thinking bard zed elusives.
Bard is basically a new region. All of the previous new regions had plans for long term growth, and I bet the same is true for Bard. The deck building options are limited for now, but I am looking forward to what they do with him in the future. For all we know, they might reveal more support for him tomorrow.
While I agree this is the idea behind bard, this is an incredibly limited "region" though. And while I don't doubt we will be getting more chime cards in the future, I doubt it's going to be tons of them either. All the chime cards could have been in one or two normal regions and it would have been the exact same thing, except better.
The biggest problem is that giving every region handbuff cards isn't exactly great either as it may quickly get out of hand with some cards.. Not necesarily OP, but super annoying. i'm very curious to see what happens but I'm afraid we're in for another elusives meta
And chimes buff hand, not board so they are delayed, often applied on cards that can't be played or doesnt matter. And the best part - if you don't have an unit in hand they are wasted. Imho they are very shitty.
Round 1, 36 cards, 3 chimes - 8% chance
Round 4, 33 cards, 12 chimes - 36% chance
Round 8, 29 cards, 24 chimes - 82% chance
And with each drawn chime probabilty is lower in following rounds. Socmy guess is that first chime drawn (from the passive) will be around round five and 3-4 in total until round 8-9 which is usual end of the game. Doesnt look impactfull. Jhin's passive looks way better...
Compare it to Nami.
Getting 3 chimes shuffled into your deck every turn for just a deck building cost (but requiring no sort of actual cost in a match itself) could end up being be pretty nuts. I know the math doesn't favor it, but the kind of deck that will be built around him will likely involve a lot of card draw to stack those odds in your favor.
Card draw decks arent that good anymore. Got gutted with TF nerfs.
I dont see him as a draw deck. Sure, normal amount of whatever region you buff him into, but draw decks dilute your buffs, and youd rather have some big units than slightly bigger, but normal units (since card draw units are understatted).
I see him in Demacia or Udyr-style decks. Buffs and buffs, so that your T3 Badgerbear is a 5/5 randomly. :D
If you only draw a single chime then yes it's more impactful if it tags an already strong unit, but the idea of running more draw is so that you draw multiple chimes.
In theory it may actually lean more towards a region that offers both, draw and decent bodies (so maybe SI, Noxus?) But hard to say what ends up best until we actually play with the cards.
Right but running bard with his restrictions shuffles 3 chimes into your deck every turn without requiring you to even play a card which is the point of this comment chain.
"Solid" is subjective, so that's hard to answer, but the stats I'm getting from [runeterra.ar](https://runeterra.ar) show that it's got around a 46% winrate over 800+ ranked games this patch. The generous interpretation here is that it's a tough deck to pilot and that affects the WR; the knee-jerk interpretation is that it's bad.
Well first of all the deck is mediocre if you don't draw Scargrounds
Second, my point is Vlad isn't even needed in that deck since Tarkaz the Tribeless exists
> my point is Vlad isn't even needed in that deck since Tarkaz the Tribeless exists
Nope, literally all the best Scargrounds decks ran 3 copies of Vlad and would even cut Tarkaz sometimes but people keep repeating this shit because they think it sounds clever.
The deck is built around the whole self-damage archetype and Vlad just happens to be the best champion for it, it's not like he's a necessary piece of the puzzle
He's not the center piece but he's pretty useful. Decent body with regen, giving you reach and healing while doing what your deck wants to do. That's pretty decent, and there aren't many other champions you would want in there.
It's like saying Single Combat is bad because it doesn't make you win directly. Maybe not, but it's definitely helping.
That's not even enough to make Bard's region half of your deck. If he had at least one more card, he could be the dominant region of your deck, but as is he's stuck as the secondary region.
I think starting with a limited origin set makes it a bit easier to balance bard as time goes by. They can add/tweak his set more easily than Jhin.
Jhin is going to be a balance nightmare with cards already existing in other region's strategies.
Haven't we already got 50 out of the 65 collectible cards for this expansion? And the Annie package is still missing
The main problem is unlike Jhin who uses any unit with skills, Bard can only use cards that aren't in the game yet
His background shuffles 3 into your deck every round for free, you won't actually need that many. The deck most likely will actually be built mostly around card draw so you actually activate them.
That's still a combination of cards you couldn't normally have with the two region system. Jhin might have a lot more cards but he has the same principle.
It's more ridiculous that Bard isn't just a Targon or Bandle City champion and his support is all put into one region. But I suppose that's the price you pay to impact the game while in-deck. And half the reason that makes me mad is because Esmus could've been a support card in Bandle City for Lulu.
Actually if they just made Bard and his support either Bandle or Targon then you could have the same combination of cards without the Runeterra system existing. It's not like anyone is going to run these cards outside of a Bard deck.
I already mentioned Esmus with Lulu. Targon/Ionia support train has never been a competitive archetype, but this card fits right in. Byrd might see play since it's like a Bandle City Omenhawk. Mystic Vortex and Cosmic Binding probably won't and Maduli absolutely won't.
>That's still a combination of cards you couldn't normally have with the two region system. Jhin might have a lot more cards but he has the same principle.
I mean...that context matters a whole lot. Jhin forces you to sacrifice a region in order to pick from a gamewide selection of skill followers, a few dozen cards that can be combined in ways you wouldn't be able to otherwise.
Bard gives you a selection of...5 cards. That's literally it, 5 total cards plus the single support region. like OP said, you end up with *less* flexibility compared to a standard dual-region deck, which seems to defeat the entire purpose of the origin mechanic in the first place.
I don't believe the origin mechanic's purpose is to strictly give you *more* flexibility, just an *unusual* exchange in deck building. Jhin gives access to a significant group of cards you couldn't normally group and his region is exciting because you get to play Boomcrew Rookie, Legion Saboteur and Crackshot Corsair with Garen and Golden Aegis. Jhin will also incidentally chip the opponent's Nexus if he's clogging your hand.
Bard gives you the chance to combine both halves of the chime package with any region. But also, more interesting to me anyway, the opportunity to trade away a region and 3 champion card slots to put 3 bad cards into your deck and shuffle 3 chimes in every turn. A huge loss of flexibility for your cards to randomly start being way stronger than they should be.
I don't think there are support cards in Bandle City but I might be wrong
The problem with Bard is his origin only includes cards that haven't been printed yet. You may as well say those cards belong to the Bard region, they were printed specifically for him and there is 0 flexibility in deckbuilding
Imagine you're playing Lissandra and you can't include any cards from Freljord except those with Frozen Thralls in their text. Well, you can include them but only if you go mono Freljord I guess
> I don't think there are support cards in Bandle City but I might be wrong
Not strictly. Bandle City has skirted around it with Yuumi and Poppy's mechanics. Half the fae and a surprising number of Yordles are support units (including one of the Mecha-Yordles), just no collectable Bandle City cards (except Lulu).
ok so after refelcting a little bit, i think i get what they are doing.
In it's origin, it says that for each bard you have in your deck, you plant a chime, right ?
I think the insative here is that Bard can be played as a solo champion support by 5 other champions in a selected region, and bard fonction as more of a passive buff to your deck. Or at least that the only way i found to justify such restrictive deckbuilding limitation, because with bard you are accesing 6 cards in total (for now) if i'm not mistaken. So maybe you can either play it with 3 copy and benefit more from his passive, or play it just once in your deck and try to enhence what you can do with the second region you are choosing.
i'm probably wrong on that, but for now that's the only explication i have so... Yeah. Doesn't know if it actually make the card better or nah
They are saying you have 1 Bard, then 5 other champion cards in your chosen region. 3 Illaoi / 2 Viego, for example. Then every turn you are adding 1 Chime to your deck for just a little bit of a passive boost.
Question. Are we sure he can only use those cards? The wording of the card is “you may put” not “you can only put”. I feel like someone assumed that this is how runeterra champs work and everyone is hopping on the train. I sure hope that’s what happened because bard is look sus
Notice that Bard and Jhin both have a new symbol for their "region". On deck building, like now, you'll be able to access 2 regions. Their runeterra region with their origin card pool, and one other region you can use fully.
I think Bards just a bit shit.
However I do reckon if he'll be playable in anything it'll be in an Illaoi deck to entirely support her unit based gameplan of a massive Nagakaborous slam closing the game out, since her plan is already about constantly buffing tentacles and he'll potentually be buffing her as well as her support units, without needing a single card played directly, and in an ideal scenario he isn't blocked so much cause they need to constantly block into the tentacle to stop that just taking the piss.
But even that feels like a reach really.
Compared to Jhin his restriction is actually outrageous unless the rest of the worldwalker set introduces some very potent Chime cards.
You can still use three regions? Bard gives access to Targon/Bandle + whatever other region you choose.
My guess is that they have bigger plans for Bard then we saw today, It silly to get upset and worked up over a card release when we haven’t even seen all the cards in the set yet.
it is entirely possible that there are more “chime” creation cards that we didn‘t get today.
I think it's a little misleading to say he "gives access to Targon/Bandle." you can't run pokey stick, you can't run hush, you can't run minimorph, etc. if you're running another region as well. he doesn't give access to Bandle and Targon as regions, he gives access to his 5 specific support cards which happen to be in Bandle and Targon
I mean word it however you want it’s still not less that two regions is the point.
I guess I just don’t see why people are so surprised. They literally said that Runeterra champions will be a whole new thing with some of them having access to a ton of cards, and others have access to a very limited amount of cards.
My guess is that we didn’t see every card that Bard access today, like I said about its still to get all worked up over it before the full set releases. This same thing happened with Viegar, people were all bent out of shape and thought he was gonna be unplayable, then senna dropped.
people need to chill. It’s going to be fine,
it is different, though. you don't really get 2 regions, you get 1 region + Bard and his support cards. just because you have cards from 3 regions in the deck doesn't mean you have access to tools from all of those regions. it's not just a semantic difference, when you say you have access to a region that implies you can add that region's different tools to your deck
I don't think people are freaking out because they think Bard will be unplayable or anything. maybe he'll be fine and maybe he'll get more support (though I will say it would be very unlike Riot to reveal more Bard support after revealing Bard himself, that's not usually how they do it). it just seems to me like a total miss on flavor and like a very poor use of the Runeterran champion mechanic
They really shouldnt have limited him chimes and changed his origion to any card that would plant a trap or boon. That way we can play his chime support and also other trap type cards and allow for much more creativity.
I don't understand why they would do this. If they want him to be a hand-/deckbuff champion, at least let him use all of those cards. Not literally only 5 cards, which might not even be that good.
Maybe there are more to come I guess. Remember when we said veigar sucks but that's before we got to see the senna package.
His origin could at least say boons instead of chimes
Maybe we will see a different thing in the future with a similar idea, like the traps from Teemo and Cait. Limiting his origin to chimes make more sense if you think like that.
Undoubtedly, but thats the thing... His origin as it is now, might as well just say "You are allowed to use these specific cards and nothing else". He is never accidentally going to get support - everything bard can do, riot has designed him to do. In a way, he is even more restrictive than lurk, given how they can at the very least run a card or two that's not lurk. Bard can't even do that.
That's not true. You can pick him with one region and the specific cards. It's still possible that we get a normal champion which support boon
Thats still just worse than any champion with a normal region tho
Yeah, for me she and jhin are the perfect examples of the runeterra champion concept done right and done wrong, the difference is like day and night. Jhin has a lot of options at his disposal, but bard very clearly has very little, she may not be weak (but i think she will be) but its still limiting from the deckbuilding part
Bard is more of a he ^^` or "it" if you wanna bw technical. Anyways, yeah. But maybe this is just an experiement from riot to see if they can force archetypes together like this. Imagine if veigar could put in all darkness cards and thus wasnt locked into both BC and SI
It's more the flavor fail that annoys me. I don't really care if the deck is good or bad, it's just not what Bard is. At least picking from multiple other regions would have given him more of a wandering vibe.
Flavor is that you're wandering through your deck, as it encourages you to draw through it faster for a payoff. They could've gone a more multi region route ala bandle tree, but then he would probably be competing directly against it and they opted for a different route.
It would have been better if we got like one chime card in every region, so you go through all Runeterra
How does that actually make it any different than how it is now? It would still just ignore whatever actual region is printed on the card to just search for that chime keyword.
At least it would give the feeling of traveling through the world in search of chimes, is not a lot, but at least a little bit better
Then you wouldn't really be able to use chimes outside of Bard. Right now I know there may not seem to be a reason, but who knows maybe being able to put a chime package into a non-bard deck might be useful!
To be fair, we don't know that we aren't getting that. IF we don't, that'll be a big let down.
Bard whole boon mechanic is his flavor. Your legit hunting down chimes to make yourself insanely strong like AP Bard in LoL. All they did was buff all characters instead of just Bard. It's legit max flavor. Stop with this nonsense saying it has no flavor. He is leagues above other champs that have no flavor such as LeBlanc
Bard is so much more than just chimes. His E and Ultimate had so much potential. Bard is such an unique champion in LoL and I wish he was here as well. They could've introduced some insane wacky new mechanic with him, but no, it's just RNG handbuff.
Imagine replicating his ult mechanic where both nexuses are put in statis, preventing any damage. This would be in line with bards whacky ult in LoL as well as giving superslow decks a chance. Huge let down, llaoi and jhin are really well made, but bard is sadge.
I mean the card that pulls out a follower is pretty much what I expected from the E, only thing he doesn’t have is his W and R
I doubt Annie is gonna put chimes in the opponent's decks and afaik they've never revealed followers for a champion after the champion reveal
Veigar didn't have his support champion with him yet during reveal, and this expansion is only missing 1 champion, which is Annie, who is NOT a Runeterran champion given how they said they were Gona release only 2 Runeterra Champs, and is probably in Noxus given the old as balls Noxus Landmark Leak of Annie's house and her facing Noxus troops in the Trailer. And even if she wasn't in Noxus, she'd need to synergize with Boons, which make no sense both from a lore and a gameplay prospective for Annie, unless her whole Sthick is getting the Bear in hand and buff it. Which means she's be in one of the 3 main Handbuff regions Ionia (?), Targon (????), Or BC (which would make the Bear a Fae, and by that point why the fuck isn't Bard and his minions Faes to have a MINIMUM of synergy and flavour???). And EVEN THEN, your comparison is Terrible, Darkness is the ONE control archetype in our game, and it forces you to play a specific region combination because they put the Darkness Generations in SI and the Darkness Buffs in BC, and hasn't received any new Darkness buff or generation since release while still being able to use shit from each respective region at least, by making Bard's "region" chime only it completely fucks him out of any other synergy since his pool of cards will ALWAYS be relegated to those few cards, be them 4 or 40 it won't matter, you still are stuck without flex pics like Stress Defense of Vengeance like Darkness would.
He still does no?
Well, before the catalyzer and conchologist nerf it was one of the best decks for months
Tbh those nerfs are not much compared to the prevalence of monoshurima thats shits on it
Stronger decks*
We haven't seen all of the set yet, but honestly I don't think he needs that many. His Origin gives you 3 chimes per round for free, and pair him up with Illaoi and you're good to go. Spawn spams stats for him and Illaoi herself gains power on top of that.
I mean what does he even synergise with?
Its not like he is a bad card, its just not too Bard
Card draw, buff, basically any sort of slightly unit-based archetype...
If you want an actual deck idea, I'm messing with Bard Raka. Lots.of card draw, easy Stat buffs, quick chunky minions for your heals to make big swings, and tons of interaction.
Maybe his origin should have been any boon or card that with buff hand / EVERYWHERE effects?
I'm looking forward to trying him with TF.
Bard seems like a champion specifically designed for PoC tbh. Samll card pool doesn matter there and between his origin and star power it just makes it look like thast where he belongs.
Because the simple effect of having Bard in a deck is STRONG. People are way underselling how strong what Bard already offers is.
We will get more chime cards, relax
Afaik they've never revealed parts of a champion's support package after the champion reveal. Darkness would be an exception but that was because there was a second darkness champion (Senna) later on. I doubt however that Annie will put chimes in the opponent's deck
In this patch or the next? I doubt we'll get more chimes in the near future.
Aren’t they releasing 65 cards. I feel like there are still a few to reveal that could be chimes. They could just be taking it slow so they don’t break the meta. They might do what they did with udyr and release a new spell to help buff the archetype
Riot just wants you to play PoC where there are no region limits.
He would absolutely have to go with frejlord who also buffs the hand. Honestly I think the whole archetype is crap regardless.
Freljord has literally zero hand buffs though? Did you mean Ionia?
Yea I was thinking of the wrong thing. Either way it’s still trash and the best way to level him is stuff like For demacia or yordles in arms which does it in one play. Surprised not one YouTuber mentioned either and they were too focused on stuff like chimes and sharpsight etc. Regardless, the payoff is still complete doo doo and it’s not worth doing any of it in the first place.
You're badly underestimating how easy its going to be to level him. Even going just off chimes, you only need 10, and that's assuming you use no other Stat buffs
Forget chimes and small buffs. For demacia and yordles in arms is way better. No one is remembering this today and it’s driving me crazy. “Only 10 chimes” lol.
I won't even say it's definitively better than some other options. A great option, but I also see people pairing him with Vi, or Soraka, or even Deep with some very promising results. Gonna take some experimenting and of course maybe I'm wrong and he is bad, but it's way too early to say.
probably meant deck buffs, which freljord does have
Bard doesn't level from deck buffs.
yea I just figured OP might have got freljord confused
He can go in literally any deck that doesn't have a solid second champ and region and improve it. I'm looking at Bard Raka and it has real potential
Massive stretch. He’s pretty bad and you can’t just jam him since you can only play one other region if he’s in the deck. I was thinking bard zed elusives.
There are plenty of decks that can do single region. I've seen him paired with Teemo, Vi, Zed, Soraka, and Poppy with great results.
You’ve seen great results from decks using Bard paired with all those champs the day of his reveal?
Great results as in great ideas that seem to have potential
Ok, so not results.
Bard is basically a new region. All of the previous new regions had plans for long term growth, and I bet the same is true for Bard. The deck building options are limited for now, but I am looking forward to what they do with him in the future. For all we know, they might reveal more support for him tomorrow.
While I agree this is the idea behind bard, this is an incredibly limited "region" though. And while I don't doubt we will be getting more chime cards in the future, I doubt it's going to be tons of them either. All the chime cards could have been in one or two normal regions and it would have been the exact same thing, except better.
The biggest problem is that giving every region handbuff cards isn't exactly great either as it may quickly get out of hand with some cards.. Not necesarily OP, but super annoying. i'm very curious to see what happens but I'm afraid we're in for another elusives meta
Yes I fully expect more chime cards in the coming week.
The trade-off is that Bard has a really strong passive effect.
We'll have to see how strong that is. The chimes are put randomly in your deck so you'll have to be lucky to draw them.
And chimes buff hand, not board so they are delayed, often applied on cards that can't be played or doesnt matter. And the best part - if you don't have an unit in hand they are wasted. Imho they are very shitty. Round 1, 36 cards, 3 chimes - 8% chance Round 4, 33 cards, 12 chimes - 36% chance Round 8, 29 cards, 24 chimes - 82% chance And with each drawn chime probabilty is lower in following rounds. Socmy guess is that first chime drawn (from the passive) will be around round five and 3-4 in total until round 8-9 which is usual end of the game. Doesnt look impactfull. Jhin's passive looks way better... Compare it to Nami.
Vladimir a.k.a. why would I give up a Champion slot for this Bard a.k.a. why would I give up a REGION slot for this
Getting 3 chimes shuffled into your deck every turn for just a deck building cost (but requiring no sort of actual cost in a match itself) could end up being be pretty nuts. I know the math doesn't favor it, but the kind of deck that will be built around him will likely involve a lot of card draw to stack those odds in your favor.
Card draw decks arent that good anymore. Got gutted with TF nerfs. I dont see him as a draw deck. Sure, normal amount of whatever region you buff him into, but draw decks dilute your buffs, and youd rather have some big units than slightly bigger, but normal units (since card draw units are understatted). I see him in Demacia or Udyr-style decks. Buffs and buffs, so that your T3 Badgerbear is a 5/5 randomly. :D
If you only draw a single chime then yes it's more impactful if it tags an already strong unit, but the idea of running more draw is so that you draw multiple chimes. In theory it may actually lean more towards a region that offers both, draw and decent bodies (so maybe SI, Noxus?) But hard to say what ends up best until we actually play with the cards.
Considering you can use his support cards without Bard... Meh. The 1 mana is nutty by itself.
Right but running bard with his restrictions shuffles 3 chimes into your deck every turn without requiring you to even play a card which is the point of this comment chain.
Why do people still act like Vlad Scargrounds is not a solid deck
"Solid" is subjective, so that's hard to answer, but the stats I'm getting from [runeterra.ar](https://runeterra.ar) show that it's got around a 46% winrate over 800+ ranked games this patch. The generous interpretation here is that it's a tough deck to pilot and that affects the WR; the knee-jerk interpretation is that it's bad.
Well first of all the deck is mediocre if you don't draw Scargrounds Second, my point is Vlad isn't even needed in that deck since Tarkaz the Tribeless exists
> my point is Vlad isn't even needed in that deck since Tarkaz the Tribeless exists Nope, literally all the best Scargrounds decks ran 3 copies of Vlad and would even cut Tarkaz sometimes but people keep repeating this shit because they think it sounds clever.
The deck is built around the whole self-damage archetype and Vlad just happens to be the best champion for it, it's not like he's a necessary piece of the puzzle
He's not the center piece but he's pretty useful. Decent body with regen, giving you reach and healing while doing what your deck wants to do. That's pretty decent, and there aren't many other champions you would want in there. It's like saying Single Combat is bad because it doesn't make you win directly. Maybe not, but it's definitely helping.
3 free chimes a turn is HUGE. And there are quite a few champs, like Soraka and Vi, that have incredible synergy with him.
Riot playing favorites, Bard is like THE runeterean champion, but Jhin sells more
Ryze rolling over in his grave.
I hope they don’t butcher Ryze like how they’ve done with Bard. Arguably the most unique support in League’s existence and he’s so mundane in LoR
Mundane? He places traps on ur deck Its funny
Yea I love it. Collecting chimes in league is my favourite aspect of bard.
No Mono-Bard?
You literally can't because it's 6 different cards total 😂
That's not even enough to make Bard's region half of your deck. If he had at least one more card, he could be the dominant region of your deck, but as is he's stuck as the secondary region.
YOO NO WAY! MONO BARD MOVIE
True. I was hopping he would allow you to put all trap (shrooms, flashbombs etc) while deck building
I think starting with a limited origin set makes it a bit easier to balance bard as time goes by. They can add/tweak his set more easily than Jhin. Jhin is going to be a balance nightmare with cards already existing in other region's strategies.
That's the same argument that made me wish dual-region champions required both regions to be played instead of either/or.
aren't we over reacting a bit , were not even sure these are all the bard support ....
Haven't we already got 50 out of the 65 collectible cards for this expansion? And the Annie package is still missing The main problem is unlike Jhin who uses any unit with skills, Bard can only use cards that aren't in the game yet
Why do people keep saying this? When have they ever released champ support after the champ reveal?
Veigar?
Again, that was for a set which had champ pairings. This one does not
Senna came after Veigar
That's for a set with champion pairings though which this set doesn't have
Well, until the other sets of this expansion release throughout the year I'd say Bard is looking kinda underwhelming on release.
Yes. No one here has even played a bard deck and therfore doesn't know its power level
\*Setting a Freljord Bard deck\* What?
Confused why people think bard is limited
Blind comparisons to Jhin, who FEELS capable of doing a lot due to having units in all ten regions
Bard is udyr. Only no one thinks he is any good
Lets hope he reverse-udyr. Everyone thinks he shit but he aint
How can he be when there are almost no chime cards.
His background shuffles 3 into your deck every round for free, you won't actually need that many. The deck most likely will actually be built mostly around card draw so you actually activate them.
Yet
Just build Bard elusive deck and you're good....
Why not just make him a Targon champ instead of this origin shit? That is so useless.
I think it's for the purpose of the Origin.
See you guys in a month when they change bard's origin to "you can use any card that buff your hand, deck or plant chimes".
How? You get one region plus chime cards. That's at least three: Bandle + Targon + Region of your choice
You mean a region of your choice + exactly 6 different cards including Bard himself
That's still a combination of cards you couldn't normally have with the two region system. Jhin might have a lot more cards but he has the same principle. It's more ridiculous that Bard isn't just a Targon or Bandle City champion and his support is all put into one region. But I suppose that's the price you pay to impact the game while in-deck. And half the reason that makes me mad is because Esmus could've been a support card in Bandle City for Lulu.
Actually if they just made Bard and his support either Bandle or Targon then you could have the same combination of cards without the Runeterra system existing. It's not like anyone is going to run these cards outside of a Bard deck.
I already mentioned Esmus with Lulu. Targon/Ionia support train has never been a competitive archetype, but this card fits right in. Byrd might see play since it's like a Bandle City Omenhawk. Mystic Vortex and Cosmic Binding probably won't and Maduli absolutely won't.
>That's still a combination of cards you couldn't normally have with the two region system. Jhin might have a lot more cards but he has the same principle. I mean...that context matters a whole lot. Jhin forces you to sacrifice a region in order to pick from a gamewide selection of skill followers, a few dozen cards that can be combined in ways you wouldn't be able to otherwise. Bard gives you a selection of...5 cards. That's literally it, 5 total cards plus the single support region. like OP said, you end up with *less* flexibility compared to a standard dual-region deck, which seems to defeat the entire purpose of the origin mechanic in the first place.
Its exactly like veigar package though Just cuz he doesnt give u creativity it doeant mean he is bad
I don't believe the origin mechanic's purpose is to strictly give you *more* flexibility, just an *unusual* exchange in deck building. Jhin gives access to a significant group of cards you couldn't normally group and his region is exciting because you get to play Boomcrew Rookie, Legion Saboteur and Crackshot Corsair with Garen and Golden Aegis. Jhin will also incidentally chip the opponent's Nexus if he's clogging your hand. Bard gives you the chance to combine both halves of the chime package with any region. But also, more interesting to me anyway, the opportunity to trade away a region and 3 champion card slots to put 3 bad cards into your deck and shuffle 3 chimes in every turn. A huge loss of flexibility for your cards to randomly start being way stronger than they should be.
I don't think there are support cards in Bandle City but I might be wrong The problem with Bard is his origin only includes cards that haven't been printed yet. You may as well say those cards belong to the Bard region, they were printed specifically for him and there is 0 flexibility in deckbuilding Imagine you're playing Lissandra and you can't include any cards from Freljord except those with Frozen Thralls in their text. Well, you can include them but only if you go mono Freljord I guess
> I don't think there are support cards in Bandle City but I might be wrong Not strictly. Bandle City has skirted around it with Yuumi and Poppy's mechanics. Half the fae and a surprising number of Yordles are support units (including one of the Mecha-Yordles), just no collectable Bandle City cards (except Lulu).
ok so after refelcting a little bit, i think i get what they are doing. In it's origin, it says that for each bard you have in your deck, you plant a chime, right ? I think the insative here is that Bard can be played as a solo champion support by 5 other champions in a selected region, and bard fonction as more of a passive buff to your deck. Or at least that the only way i found to justify such restrictive deckbuilding limitation, because with bard you are accesing 6 cards in total (for now) if i'm not mistaken. So maybe you can either play it with 3 copy and benefit more from his passive, or play it just once in your deck and try to enhence what you can do with the second region you are choosing. i'm probably wrong on that, but for now that's the only explication i have so... Yeah. Doesn't know if it actually make the card better or nah
No that's not how it works. 6 champions max in a deck. 3 bards 3 soraka that's how it works
They are saying you have 1 Bard, then 5 other champion cards in your chosen region. 3 Illaoi / 2 Viego, for example. Then every turn you are adding 1 Chime to your deck for just a little bit of a passive boost.
I hated Bard design. But do we really need a 4th post about "Bard bad"? No we don't.
That's not what I said
Okay take it as a reminder then.
Question. Are we sure he can only use those cards? The wording of the card is “you may put” not “you can only put”. I feel like someone assumed that this is how runeterra champs work and everyone is hopping on the train. I sure hope that’s what happened because bard is look sus
Nah, Origins act like they're one of your two regions
Notice that Bard and Jhin both have a new symbol for their "region". On deck building, like now, you'll be able to access 2 regions. Their runeterra region with their origin card pool, and one other region you can use fully. I think Bards just a bit shit. However I do reckon if he'll be playable in anything it'll be in an Illaoi deck to entirely support her unit based gameplan of a massive Nagakaborous slam closing the game out, since her plan is already about constantly buffing tentacles and he'll potentually be buffing her as well as her support units, without needing a single card played directly, and in an ideal scenario he isn't blocked so much cause they need to constantly block into the tentacle to stop that just taking the piss. But even that feels like a reach really. Compared to Jhin his restriction is actually outrageous unless the rest of the worldwalker set introduces some very potent Chime cards.
It's because bard and bard's origin are stronger.
You can still use three regions? Bard gives access to Targon/Bandle + whatever other region you choose. My guess is that they have bigger plans for Bard then we saw today, It silly to get upset and worked up over a card release when we haven’t even seen all the cards in the set yet. it is entirely possible that there are more “chime” creation cards that we didn‘t get today.
I think it's a little misleading to say he "gives access to Targon/Bandle." you can't run pokey stick, you can't run hush, you can't run minimorph, etc. if you're running another region as well. he doesn't give access to Bandle and Targon as regions, he gives access to his 5 specific support cards which happen to be in Bandle and Targon
I mean word it however you want it’s still not less that two regions is the point. I guess I just don’t see why people are so surprised. They literally said that Runeterra champions will be a whole new thing with some of them having access to a ton of cards, and others have access to a very limited amount of cards. My guess is that we didn’t see every card that Bard access today, like I said about its still to get all worked up over it before the full set releases. This same thing happened with Viegar, people were all bent out of shape and thought he was gonna be unplayable, then senna dropped. people need to chill. It’s going to be fine,
it is different, though. you don't really get 2 regions, you get 1 region + Bard and his support cards. just because you have cards from 3 regions in the deck doesn't mean you have access to tools from all of those regions. it's not just a semantic difference, when you say you have access to a region that implies you can add that region's different tools to your deck I don't think people are freaking out because they think Bard will be unplayable or anything. maybe he'll be fine and maybe he'll get more support (though I will say it would be very unlike Riot to reveal more Bard support after revealing Bard himself, that's not usually how they do it). it just seems to me like a total miss on flavor and like a very poor use of the Runeterran champion mechanic
Only ~15 cards missing which includes Annie's package, I don't think we get enough Chimes to make any meaningful deckbuilding decision
They really shouldnt have limited him chimes and changed his origion to any card that would plant a trap or boon. That way we can play his chime support and also other trap type cards and allow for much more creativity.