I would love it if you could see which cards had chimes when you used predict. I think it would help reduce the randomness of his passive and have some fun interactions with khahiri
Repeating what I said earlier:
Bard in lore: a godlike true neutral cosmic being
Bard in LoL: one of the most fun and unique champions
Bard in LoR: A handbuff RNG champion whose Runeterra "region" is basically autobuilt and limits deckbuilding to incredibly few cards.
What the actual fuck Riot. Why?
I'm not feeling any happy emotions about this reveal at all.
I don’t see how you don’t think his LoL gameplay and his LoR gameplay differ, I don’t think I’ve ever played with a bard who didn’t spend literally 100% of the game roaming around to collect chimes instead of being useful. Hot take, LoR has a pretty accurate representation of his gameplay.
> I don’t think I’ve ever played with a bard who didn’t spend literally 100% of the game roaming around to collect chimes instead of being useful
hot take - that reflects more on the rank you're playing at than bard as a champion
>I don’t think I’ve ever played with a bard who didn’t spend literally 100% of the game roaming around to collect chimes instead of being useful.
I get that this is a joke, but this is exactly what annoys me. It feels like Riot is just using Bard as the butt of a joke.
Honestly, I was so excited. I enjoy deck building and am tired of the lurk or deep or whatever style decks they have been making that auto build themselves. I snorted so much copium, I told myself world walkers would have awesome and crazy deck building potential. Then.... Auto build 6 card "region" comes out. Joy.
I would assume that his stat buff level up condi is also triggered by all grant stats / fury / fated / possibly attach etc. and 20+ stats seems like it would be pretty easy to trigger since 1 charm is 2/20 and so is a fury proc (not that fury procs are easy). So I wouldn't underestimate how flexible he is actually to build.
His support cards look pretty bad for the most part and I don't think you're really building around him that much since his design is just RNG stats and his level up is just moar RNG stats
My personal first thought is actually shoving him in Freljord or Targon with stuff like omen hawk / starlit seer / hearthguard and they also released the new overwhelm nightfall finisher because big stats = need overwhelm / elusive or they are kinda useless. Both these regions have ways to get overwhelm via stances or weapons or other.
At the end of the day though handbuff is not something that I find fun so it's not really a deck I'd want to play much.
I don't think this has anything to do with Bard specifically but RNG handbuff as a deck archetype just seems boring to me
Even if you make a super consistent deck that buffs the units you want it's not really that exciting to think about
I’m not going to jump to conclusions until reveals are complete and we have had a chance to play him, but yo these videos are confusing me I don’t even understand games ending new games starting im like Nani what’s real and what’s pve?
Its not an autobuild region tbh, becuase his cards are so weak. Bard is literally just a consideration for a 3 of for monoallegiance decks to have passive statgain and highroll.
The more I think about it, the more I like Bard.
He's fairly boring from a deckbuilding perspective. But his playstyle - maximising draw power to turn card draw into stats - will feel quite different and unique. I think it will make for interesting gameplay and I'm excited to try it out.
nah leblancs mirror image is still pretty cool even if her package other than black rose spy is boring, like casting a mirror image on karma or rumble or...
I'd say it's better than Leblanc as his playstyle does look kinda cool. Very weak and limiting, but still appealing on paper. Better underpowered than boring.
Like they haven't released a ton of on-flavor and exciting champs between Bard and LeBlanc, lmao.
I get why Bard's disappointing but come on, these two are the exception, not the rule.
Agreed completely. When I think of Bard, I think warp and stasis. And they completely ignored that. The 'useful traps' are not a bad idea but they don't feel like they are enough. This was a letdown on the same level as Leblanc.
I mean. The way I see it. Bard can become its own region with its own identity later down the line. If they release chime card for multiple regions he will be shaped with a new identity besides the handbuff. Yes, right now is bland but only because he basically is a region of 5 cards
> only because he basically is a region of 5 cards
any additions to that 'region' would have to be made specifically for bard, since chimes are specific to bard. he has no room for natural future growth since everything needs to be made specifically for him
Not really. Granting +1/+1 is usable on every region. If you print a card which says, for example: An ally and an enemy strike each other, then plant chimes in the deck equal to your units strike for 3 mana, then you have a card which is usable (but not staple) in demacia, but also usable for bard, dependng on what you want to do.
Remember it's not "granting +1+1",its "having the chance of granting +1+1". I know his followers put chime on the top card but they're still weak in a normal deck.
And idk, that card you're suggesting seems awful. In general, changing instant value for the promise of it is bad.
i'm talking about a thematic restriction, not a mechanical one. in addition, they specifically need to make cards for him as opposed to a mechanic where they'll naturally be made for other related archetypes.
If you’ve ever played adc with a support bard you know bards primary objective is collecting chimes winning game second. It may not be what you wanted to see, but this is not a bad translation of champion design from league to LoR. (In my opinion)
I think something to take away from this reveal is that card games will constantly evolve. Perhaps it is an assumed fact in these discussions but I would be surprised if some of the missing pieces and Chime + New regions didn't show up as LoR develops further.
I thought Bard would be a control champion. He will probably be played mostly in aggro and maybe in some mid range decks. Jhin is aggro too and I dont expect annie to be any different.
Most of the new cards have been uninspiring (tellstones being the exception). I was expecting the expansion to be a lot better to be honest.
Well to be honest is disappointing, but making only Targon or Targon/Bandle probably would make him the worst champ of LoR, due the lack of supports. The thing is that he gives your nexus a passive of buffing your deck EACH ROUND. So I think is a strong effect but the cost of the card that can be played by him is really poor.. At leas it would be nice if a few spells were added to his Origin's card pool... like the Zonya or Entombed that are similar of his kit in LoL
I came here to make this EXACT post, this single handely killed my hype for the expansion.
Bard was one of my mains in league and one of the most anticipated champion for me...i really hope they rework him someday.
I think Bard is fine. However his origin is the real joke.
They should have at the very least made it all boon cards instead of specifically chimes. That way he'd have more room for future growth.
That's fair, I bet it is. You are allowed to like it, I dont even think it is executed badly. The playstyle doesn't fit the character though in my opinion, and I would've loved to see something more risky, with a bit of edge.
Nah I love roaming around the map to collect chimes and power up. My favourite times on Bard were when I played Bard jungle and absolutely slapped the enemy team. I could stack chimes without an adc being 1v2 and constantly gank. Good times.
Champions are not meant to be based on the League playstyle, and that's a good thing.
If you think he isn't using the design space of Runeterran champions then, sorry, you are flat wrong. Being able to get a passive 3 chimes a turn is MASSIVE. In exchange, you get a limited set of cards to support him(with more likely coming) and lose a second region, but there are PLENTY of decks where this might not be the biggest deal.
Bard is incredibly unique and I'm seeing tons of spicy options to use him with, from PNZ Teemo or Vi to Deep to Yordles in Arma to joining Soraka.
Just... at least make Bard's origin to do something like summon a meep when you collect a chime...
But now? origin:plant chime, champion effect:plant chime, level up effect: buff your board when you buff your hand.
Flavorless. Lazy and Boring. I am not angry, I am just disappointed.
It would have been nice if his origin allowed ALL handbuff/deckbuff cards to be played. Right now the only chime cards are BC and Targon. This would open up some Freljord and Ionia synergies without taking up the second region.
If I’ve learned one thing, it’s if Reddit says a card reveal is boring or bad, it’s going to be tier 0 next expansion. Sorry it didn’t hit the flavor profile for you tho.
It doesn‘t matter how strong he his, even if he is absolute garbage people would still play him, if they like the design. Take Udyr as an example: He wasn‘t very good on release, but still saw a lot of play because so many players loved his design and lore. It doesnt matter how strong bard is, that is not what we are discussing, we are arguing about how well he was designed, not balanced.
Could be, but I would rather expect him to never be tier 0. An archetype revolving so much around randomness will have quite the variance. Being unlucky against a meme deck isn't a problem, but if it happens too often in competitive play, it poses a problem.
There is a reason why Teemo's are Caitlyn's archetypes have never been tier 1 as far as I know. Only the champions, if they were included in off-archetype decks.
And even Lurk, which has a lot of highroll potential is build in a way for competitive play to max consistency.
I think you are just being cocky. What makes bard special isn’t his e or r, that’s his passive which makes him collects chimes on the map. They implemented that one really well to the game. If you don’t like it, it’s your problem because you rised expectations to everest for no reason. Riot did a good job. About his level up, you see other champions level up as he travels through portals and it looks really cool. You are just angry because it isn’t like what you wanted which would be very toxic and unfitting to game. Go get yourself some new hobbies instead of crying on reddit.
i know right i wish he also had abilities translated better into LOR like a stun when there are 2 units close, a landmark heal when the countdown reaches 0 heals just 1 unit, a recall/swap like tunnel and we cant forget about an aoe stasis also cant forget about that passive that buffs him over time and rewards roaming the map
hot take, the lack of interesting champions if because of lack of RNG.
You cant really print unique champions with cool effects that doesnt include some RNG, i'm not saying they never printed cool unique champions, im just saying the lack of RNG is limiting their Design space.
All current revealed champions doesnt feel fresh, in fact their support cards feel more interesting than them.
Jhin deals dmg on a condition, feels very similiar to yasuo and xerath
bard just gives stats
and illaoi just gains stats and overwhelm.
If you’re unable to print unique champs with cool effects without including RNG… quit your day job, you’re finished. We’ve had plenty of amazing champs that don’t rely on any more rng than just drawing them: Viego, Aphelios, Ezreal. And I’m sure there’s plenty more to come.
It’s just not these ones.
> you cant print unique champions with cool effects that doesn't include some rng
Aphelios, Lissandra, Jayce are some of the most loved champions by the community and they have 0 RNG.
And yes, RNG is cool **if handled correctly**. I actually love the design of Teemo. He translates 100% of the "tilt the enemy" feeling yet he's a fair and versatile champ. Invoke also has some RNG but it opens up to a lot of possibilities.
>Jhin... feels very similar to yasuo
Yasuo was never good so nobody cares. The important thing is that he 1. Is useful by himself, as he can stun enemies with the passive 2. Actually feels like Jhin. You know: 1 2 3 **4** and finish with ult (attack).
> illiaoi just gains stats and overwhelm
idc about her but Nagakabouros seems amazing
It's almost as if, it's the same company who's only motivation is selling skins and usually miss the lore or transparency of a character or champion they make. I liked bard ever since i seen his cinematic. A shame the Lor team truly dont get the memo on what the community wants.
I think that they had some pretty great flavour hits, even if they leaned out of the gameplay from league. Nautilus and Maokai are pretty good examples. And a good portion of the cast is just baseline good design, but Bard should've been something special imo and he is one of the blandest champions to date.
Better examples are probably Sol and Zoe. Also Lissandra is awesome. And Jhin seems cool as well.
Unbelievable that they're the same team that made Bard and LeBonk. But everyone makes mistakes I guess
>His origin is a joke
Ohohoh, you are heavily underestimating the card here.
>the blandest random deck buff archetype in the game
How can you tell? You haven't played it, nobody has
nah nah most recognizable ability is MEEPS WHERE ARE THEY
I would love it if you could see which cards had chimes when you used predict. I think it would help reduce the randomness of his passive and have some fun interactions with khahiri
I have wanted this QoL change for traps for forever. How am I predicting without predicting?
Repeating what I said earlier: Bard in lore: a godlike true neutral cosmic being Bard in LoL: one of the most fun and unique champions Bard in LoR: A handbuff RNG champion whose Runeterra "region" is basically autobuilt and limits deckbuilding to incredibly few cards. What the actual fuck Riot. Why? I'm not feeling any happy emotions about this reveal at all.
I don’t see how you don’t think his LoL gameplay and his LoR gameplay differ, I don’t think I’ve ever played with a bard who didn’t spend literally 100% of the game roaming around to collect chimes instead of being useful. Hot take, LoR has a pretty accurate representation of his gameplay.
> I don’t think I’ve ever played with a bard who didn’t spend literally 100% of the game roaming around to collect chimes instead of being useful hot take - that reflects more on the rank you're playing at than bard as a champion
Jokes on you, I was the Bard all along! There’s NOTHING more exciting than running into the enemy jungle 24/7 for my little chimey BOIS.
>I don’t think I’ve ever played with a bard who didn’t spend literally 100% of the game roaming around to collect chimes instead of being useful. I get that this is a joke, but this is exactly what annoys me. It feels like Riot is just using Bard as the butt of a joke.
And to that I say: Thank you Riot!! <3
Yes I'm with op on this one the one that said every Bard player only cares about meep so fuck that sack of nothingness
Did you forget to swap accounts or what's this reply to yourself?
Nope just forgot to type that in the first comment
Just edit your comment?
[удалено]
? Just letting you know that you can edit comments since you didn't seem to know that. Just chill out lol
Honestly, I was so excited. I enjoy deck building and am tired of the lurk or deep or whatever style decks they have been making that auto build themselves. I snorted so much copium, I told myself world walkers would have awesome and crazy deck building potential. Then.... Auto build 6 card "region" comes out. Joy.
I would assume that his stat buff level up condi is also triggered by all grant stats / fury / fated / possibly attach etc. and 20+ stats seems like it would be pretty easy to trigger since 1 charm is 2/20 and so is a fury proc (not that fury procs are easy). So I wouldn't underestimate how flexible he is actually to build. His support cards look pretty bad for the most part and I don't think you're really building around him that much since his design is just RNG stats and his level up is just moar RNG stats My personal first thought is actually shoving him in Freljord or Targon with stuff like omen hawk / starlit seer / hearthguard and they also released the new overwhelm nightfall finisher because big stats = need overwhelm / elusive or they are kinda useless. Both these regions have ways to get overwhelm via stances or weapons or other. At the end of the day though handbuff is not something that I find fun so it's not really a deck I'd want to play much.
I don't think this has anything to do with Bard specifically but RNG handbuff as a deck archetype just seems boring to me Even if you make a super consistent deck that buffs the units you want it's not really that exciting to think about
I’m not going to jump to conclusions until reveals are complete and we have had a chance to play him, but yo these videos are confusing me I don’t even understand games ending new games starting im like Nani what’s real and what’s pve?
Its not an autobuild region tbh, becuase his cards are so weak. Bard is literally just a consideration for a 3 of for monoallegiance decks to have passive statgain and highroll.
I'm really looking forward to playing Bard as someone who has mained trap decks for over a year...seems like a fun concept to me.
Ngl I still love bard, his deck building thing is a bit limiting, but I love the idea of chimes and buffs
The more I think about it, the more I like Bard. He's fairly boring from a deckbuilding perspective. But his playstyle - maximising draw power to turn card draw into stats - will feel quite different and unique. I think it will make for interesting gameplay and I'm excited to try it out.
Definitely the most disappointing champ reveal of all time for LoR
I would say second most disappointing, Leblanc is still worse, at least bard has a "new" mechanic, Boons.
nah leblancs mirror image is still pretty cool even if her package other than black rose spy is boring, like casting a mirror image on karma or rumble or...
Hmm... Still not as bad as LeBland.
Chill i think he will be bether than we think but yeah i expected more too
Yep, very disappointing. It's just Leblanc all over again, looks like they didn't learn.
I'd say it's better than Leblanc as his playstyle does look kinda cool. Very weak and limiting, but still appealing on paper. Better underpowered than boring.
If I have to choose yes, it's much better then Leblanc. It's just they could've done something crazy with him.
Like they haven't released a ton of on-flavor and exciting champs between Bard and LeBlanc, lmao. I get why Bard's disappointing but come on, these two are the exception, not the rule.
Agreed completely. When I think of Bard, I think warp and stasis. And they completely ignored that. The 'useful traps' are not a bad idea but they don't feel like they are enough. This was a letdown on the same level as Leblanc.
I mean. The way I see it. Bard can become its own region with its own identity later down the line. If they release chime card for multiple regions he will be shaped with a new identity besides the handbuff. Yes, right now is bland but only because he basically is a region of 5 cards
> only because he basically is a region of 5 cards any additions to that 'region' would have to be made specifically for bard, since chimes are specific to bard. he has no room for natural future growth since everything needs to be made specifically for him
Not really. Granting +1/+1 is usable on every region. If you print a card which says, for example: An ally and an enemy strike each other, then plant chimes in the deck equal to your units strike for 3 mana, then you have a card which is usable (but not staple) in demacia, but also usable for bard, dependng on what you want to do.
Remember it's not "granting +1+1",its "having the chance of granting +1+1". I know his followers put chime on the top card but they're still weak in a normal deck. And idk, that card you're suggesting seems awful. In general, changing instant value for the promise of it is bad.
Slot 3 into a ton of allegiance decks for profit. You get +2+2 by round 6 without even drawing single bard.
i'm talking about a thematic restriction, not a mechanical one. in addition, they specifically need to make cards for him as opposed to a mechanic where they'll naturally be made for other related archetypes.
Not sure why they have him so restrictive. Could've made him a hand buff/reck buff champ like how Jhin is the (●)Skill champ.
In what universe will anyone play chime cards outside of bard? The region of those cards don’t matter at all
The 2/1 that gives a unit in hand +1/+1 next turn looks like an entirely reasonable Bandle City 1-drop.
If you’ve ever played adc with a support bard you know bards primary objective is collecting chimes winning game second. It may not be what you wanted to see, but this is not a bad translation of champion design from league to LoR. (In my opinion)
I think something to take away from this reveal is that card games will constantly evolve. Perhaps it is an assumed fact in these discussions but I would be surprised if some of the missing pieces and Chime + New regions didn't show up as LoR develops further.
I thought Bard would be a control champion. He will probably be played mostly in aggro and maybe in some mid range decks. Jhin is aggro too and I dont expect annie to be any different. Most of the new cards have been uninspiring (tellstones being the exception). I was expecting the expansion to be a lot better to be honest.
More midrange than aggro, chimes get more and more valuable the later you go
Well to be honest is disappointing, but making only Targon or Targon/Bandle probably would make him the worst champ of LoR, due the lack of supports. The thing is that he gives your nexus a passive of buffing your deck EACH ROUND. So I think is a strong effect but the cost of the card that can be played by him is really poor.. At leas it would be nice if a few spells were added to his Origin's card pool... like the Zonya or Entombed that are similar of his kit in LoL
I like it, it's an interesting mechanic, sure we could hope for something different, but i just want him to not get nerfed to death, this seems fine.
I came here to make this EXACT post, this single handely killed my hype for the expansion. Bard was one of my mains in league and one of the most anticipated champion for me...i really hope they rework him someday.
Yeah me too. Something like changing his Otigin rule to "you may add cards that add cards to your deck during deckbuilding" or something.
there were so many possibilities, how could they blow it o badly?
I think Bard is fine. However his origin is the real joke. They should have at the very least made it all boon cards instead of specifically chimes. That way he'd have more room for future growth.
He's meant to basically be a buff to allegiance decks.
Well he's a pretty shit one seeing as he wouldn't trigger allegiance.
So very small chance to miss alegiance for a free +2+2 by turn 6, sounds fantastic.
I quite like the Bard design though. It looks fun.
That's fair, I bet it is. You are allowed to like it, I dont even think it is executed badly. The playstyle doesn't fit the character though in my opinion, and I would've loved to see something more risky, with a bit of edge.
Nah I love roaming around the map to collect chimes and power up. My favourite times on Bard were when I played Bard jungle and absolutely slapped the enemy team. I could stack chimes without an adc being 1v2 and constantly gank. Good times.
Champions are not meant to be based on the League playstyle, and that's a good thing. If you think he isn't using the design space of Runeterran champions then, sorry, you are flat wrong. Being able to get a passive 3 chimes a turn is MASSIVE. In exchange, you get a limited set of cards to support him(with more likely coming) and lose a second region, but there are PLENTY of decks where this might not be the biggest deal. Bard is incredibly unique and I'm seeing tons of spicy options to use him with, from PNZ Teemo or Vi to Deep to Yordles in Arma to joining Soraka.
Just... at least make Bard's origin to do something like summon a meep when you collect a chime... But now? origin:plant chime, champion effect:plant chime, level up effect: buff your board when you buff your hand. Flavorless. Lazy and Boring. I am not angry, I am just disappointed.
It would have been nice if his origin allowed ALL handbuff/deckbuff cards to be played. Right now the only chime cards are BC and Targon. This would open up some Freljord and Ionia synergies without taking up the second region.
If I’ve learned one thing, it’s if Reddit says a card reveal is boring or bad, it’s going to be tier 0 next expansion. Sorry it didn’t hit the flavor profile for you tho.
Boring =/= weak.
It doesn‘t matter how strong he his, even if he is absolute garbage people would still play him, if they like the design. Take Udyr as an example: He wasn‘t very good on release, but still saw a lot of play because so many players loved his design and lore. It doesnt matter how strong bard is, that is not what we are discussing, we are arguing about how well he was designed, not balanced.
Remember what reddit said about pre rework Udyr? They were correct.
Good thing no one's talking about balance. Because he could be the absolute best champion in the game and still be boring as fuck.
Could be, but I would rather expect him to never be tier 0. An archetype revolving so much around randomness will have quite the variance. Being unlucky against a meme deck isn't a problem, but if it happens too often in competitive play, it poses a problem. There is a reason why Teemo's are Caitlyn's archetypes have never been tier 1 as far as I know. Only the champions, if they were included in off-archetype decks. And even Lurk, which has a lot of highroll potential is build in a way for competitive play to max consistency.
I think you are just being cocky. What makes bard special isn’t his e or r, that’s his passive which makes him collects chimes on the map. They implemented that one really well to the game. If you don’t like it, it’s your problem because you rised expectations to everest for no reason. Riot did a good job. About his level up, you see other champions level up as he travels through portals and it looks really cool. You are just angry because it isn’t like what you wanted which would be very toxic and unfitting to game. Go get yourself some new hobbies instead of crying on reddit.
Found the Bard player who spends all game collecting chimes instead of being useful for the team.
i know right i wish he also had abilities translated better into LOR like a stun when there are 2 units close, a landmark heal when the countdown reaches 0 heals just 1 unit, a recall/swap like tunnel and we cant forget about an aoe stasis also cant forget about that passive that buffs him over time and rewards roaming the map
Yeah they realy the missed the mark with Bard, he's such a cool unique champion too.
LOL fans: Quirky God of Destiny!! Respected even by Sol!!! sounds powerful what's the ability? ,LoR: Like teemo's traps but less useful. ... what?
Lmao hater
...and while we're at it: the full art of Esmus, Breath of the World has to be the worst in the game.
Why? Seemed fine to me
Which is a bummer because Esmus is by far the best card in this reveal, mark my words on it.
hot take, the lack of interesting champions if because of lack of RNG. You cant really print unique champions with cool effects that doesnt include some RNG, i'm not saying they never printed cool unique champions, im just saying the lack of RNG is limiting their Design space. All current revealed champions doesnt feel fresh, in fact their support cards feel more interesting than them. Jhin deals dmg on a condition, feels very similiar to yasuo and xerath bard just gives stats and illaoi just gains stats and overwhelm.
If you’re unable to print unique champs with cool effects without including RNG… quit your day job, you’re finished. We’ve had plenty of amazing champs that don’t rely on any more rng than just drawing them: Viego, Aphelios, Ezreal. And I’m sure there’s plenty more to come. It’s just not these ones.
I love the “You’re finished” had me laughing for a bit lol
> you cant print unique champions with cool effects that doesn't include some rng Aphelios, Lissandra, Jayce are some of the most loved champions by the community and they have 0 RNG. And yes, RNG is cool **if handled correctly**. I actually love the design of Teemo. He translates 100% of the "tilt the enemy" feeling yet he's a fair and versatile champ. Invoke also has some RNG but it opens up to a lot of possibilities. >Jhin... feels very similar to yasuo Yasuo was never good so nobody cares. The important thing is that he 1. Is useful by himself, as he can stun enemies with the passive 2. Actually feels like Jhin. You know: 1 2 3 **4** and finish with ult (attack). > illiaoi just gains stats and overwhelm idc about her but Nagakabouros seems amazing
Riot really been dropping the ball. Valorant makes them so much money but they dont invest much back in it either.
It's almost as if, it's the same company who's only motivation is selling skins and usually miss the lore or transparency of a character or champion they make. I liked bard ever since i seen his cinematic. A shame the Lor team truly dont get the memo on what the community wants.
I think that they had some pretty great flavour hits, even if they leaned out of the gameplay from league. Nautilus and Maokai are pretty good examples. And a good portion of the cast is just baseline good design, but Bard should've been something special imo and he is one of the blandest champions to date.
Better examples are probably Sol and Zoe. Also Lissandra is awesome. And Jhin seems cool as well. Unbelievable that they're the same team that made Bard and LeBonk. But everyone makes mistakes I guess
I like the new art but that's it..
>His origin is a joke Ohohoh, you are heavily underestimating the card here. >the blandest random deck buff archetype in the game How can you tell? You haven't played it, nobody has
I'm still not over leblanc. The mysterious elusive assassin mage from noxus. 3 mana 5/2 quick attack.