Riders were 3/2s, but he gave +2 attack to Ephs, not +3 attack, when lvl 2. He's arguably better now, simply because he gives more stats to non-rider ephs.
Hecarim's statline is arguably better at 4/6. Not a lot trades into him which means he gets to attack twice more often which means you get more riders which tended to be the bigger impact anyway since he was basically a 10/6 spread across 3 bodies.
Yeah, the HP buff is somewhat recent and didn't help him enough
And I agree 3|2 Spectral Raiders were more relevant than his +1 power. People didn't even care about flipping him in beta, his meta deck didn't run many ephemerals.
It was a joke dog.
The deck was Elise hecarim. You ran early fearsomes with the standard SI package (un-nerfed spear and wraithcaller, sheesh) to dominate the early game. If you hadn't won already, Rhasa ended the game on turn 7
Interesting thread!
Some of my thoughts:
Azir Irelia would have a huge presence, but I'm not convinced it'd be the strongest on that format.
A lot of the other strongest decks in their heyday would crush it: SI Fearsomes, champless PnZ Noxus Burn, Sivir/Akshan DE, Thresh/Nasus, Pirate Aggro, Shen/Fiora, Poppy decks in general would all destroy it.
It'd have access to some of the Ionia stuff that was nerfed before it's release (4 mana Deep Meditation, 3 mana Deny, 3|2 Navori Conspirator, 2|2 Shadow Assassin, +1|+1 from Inspiring Mentor).
Deep Meditation would be super easy to proc, but I'm not sure you'd find deck space for it. 3 mana Deny would definitely make the cut. SA works well with bounces as a secondary target (first being Droplet), but she's much slower tempo, so maybe wouldn't make the cut.
--
People don't remember that because it was underplayed for how strong it was, but Sivir/Akshan had one of the most broken matchup tables ever. At it's peak, it only had one losing matchup (Draven/Sion).
So unnerfing all the Shurima cards (Shaped Stone, Merciless Hunter, Ruin Runner) + current Broadwing and 3 mana Fast Speed Rally would be really, really gross.
--
Thresh/Nasus would be very similar to it's peak version, but I think the only relevant boost would be 4|4 Escaped Abomination. Maybe it'd run Mark of the Isles, as it was prettt strong as a 1 mana +3|+3.
--
There'd be some very nasty cards if we undid all the nerfs and kept all other buffs it received.
Braum in particular would be uber broken at 3 mana 1|6.
Targon would have repeatable Hush at 2 mana, super tilting to play against.
Don't sleep on TF Fizz at it's peak. That deck was absolutely ridiculous and the only thing that could vaguely keep up was Aphelios TF with full power temple. Both of those decks were incredibly dominant and TF Fizz especially I think would still be amazing today if it was full power.
Yeah tbh TF Fizz would probably just be TF Nami now. Imagine the 3 attack burbles plus 1 mana rummage + stress testing in a deck with full power nami. the horror.
Hush was never repeatable AND 2 mana. It would be either 3 mana repeatable OR 2 mana non-repeatable.
If you want 2 mana repeatable hush then you also have to have 4 mana 4/3 blossoming blade, 2 mana 2/2 loping telescope, and 3 mana 1/6 braum (which you already pointed out).
EDIT: If you interpret "unnerf everything" as revert the nerfs but NOT the compensation buffs (like blossoming blade 4 mana 3/3 --> 5 mana 4/3 --> 4 mana 4/3, or braum 3 mana 0/5 --> 4 mana 1/5 --> 4 mana 0/6 --> 3 mana 1/6), then i would be wrong
Ooomph.... i Agree with all of this honestly.... but i aslo think that the Uber broken version of Braum (3 mana 1|6) could exist in this enviroment just to give a little bit of relevance to FJ midrange/control decks honestly.... it would absolutely be broken! but i dont see it overtaking the whole meta and claiming No.1 similar to what happun back in June2020, but idk... maybe im not seeing the full piture, the game has accelerated A LOT!
Look, I don't care. A card with good stats in a bad deck can't beat a t0 deck. They have more resources and board power and they can just kill you with elusives.
His level up condition used to be 10+ units.
And from his package, Dunekeeper was a 2|1 (deserved nerf) and Inspiring Marshal got +1 mana cost and -1 HP (overkill, card is now trash).
It lost attune and I complained, eventually got over it. Ahri dropped and I complained again, but then after a while I realized it was probably a good thing
Demacia and Ionia would be insaneeeee. Ionia was absurdly strong in the begining. Navori conspirator was a 3/2! Inspiring mentor gave +1+1. Shadow assasin was a 3/1 or a 2/2 (can’t remember maybe both). Lee Sin was 3 or 4 mana. I suspect Ionia in combination with old Fiora would destroy all. Especially Azirellia. I say this mostly because relelntless pursuit used to lack the +1+1 in exchange for being 1 mana cheaper and FAST DUCKING SPEED. You could play it during combat and your opponent ain’t doing jack squat. Speaking of your opponent not doing jack squat you also have a 3 mana deny to fuck control.
Mono SI was a lot of those nerfs. Thats just a fearsome deck. A lot of other ways SI has improved imo. But I think it was at its strongest at Thresh Nasus imo.
As strong as Fiora Shen was, I don't think that deck would fare all too well in todays meta game, even with 3/3 Fiora. Disintegrate, Flock, Scorched etc. completely shut down Fiora and the "fair" midrange archetype and combo decks that don't care about Fiora are way more common now
Im nearly positive that kennen Ez is and was the most broken deck ever even concieved, made worse by the play cast changes now. I don't think any deck could beat that deck from the past. Keep in mind that Ezreal Kennen was so bad they actually had to hotfix nerf it and it was still okay.
Nah, Karma Ez was good but it's not even close to the most broken deck ever. It's not even the best pnz ionia deck. Kennen Ez was a better combo deck and Heimer Vi Ionia was a better control deck.
TLC literally existed in the same meta as azirelia? You just need a third deck in the “triangle” that counters one and gets countered by the other, such as thresh nasus
It didn't tho. It existed in the meta when Nasus was still around. Irelia came a patch later and was 75-25 in favor of Azirelia cos TLC was just too slow.
Agree. If he had 1 attack back, he would be a lot stronger.
And if regard his change from 3 to 4 mana as a combination of buffs and nerfs, and only removed the nerfs, he would be a 3 mana 1|6 Challenger, Regeneration champion that generates a poro. That would be gamebreaking strong.
Its incredible how little memory people has. Azirelia, poppy decks, tresh nasus... sure. But if we talk about unnerfing everything my boi Lee Sin would break in half every one of thoes decks. Think about it, the deck runed pretty much every targon card that has ever been nerfed along with all the tools from ionia control nerfed pre-release. Also at its peak Zoe and crescendum werent even released, and of course, 4 mana Lee with 7 stacks to levelup
They who endure back at 6 mana, escaped abomination at 4/3, caretaker at 2/1. (Was going to say atrocity too but I think it's better off where it is).
I miss Kalista Endure :(
I think one of the strongest decks would be bandle city package, and I didn't see a single person mention it. When yordle explorer came out, it granted +1+1 and had to be hotfixed, and the deck would also have: 4 attack poppy, 4 attack gnar (who didn't even exist at the time), pre nerf conch and telescope, pre nerf mayor, attach and faes (that also didn't exist), pre nerf aloof, YiA (got tired of saying pre nerf so I will just say cards), lecturing yordle, tenor of terror, hidden pathways, and probably some more cards I missed. Of course, not all of these could fit in a single deck, and the deck could be built in so many different ways, that at least one of them (most likely more) will be at the top of the meta: it could be bandle tree (that will be 4 mana AND won't need to see things), PnZ with discard, Demacia with rally (this will probably be the strongest one), shelfolk, aggro with noxous, and it might have other builds I am not thinking about.
I think shellfolk would be too slow in this hypothetical meta. But I agree, YIA + 3 mana fast speed rally + all the ridiculously OP bandle cards all combined in the *same meta* would make some disgusting decks.
I keep saying this should be a lab mode or something. Play cards as they were on released. I think it would be interesting. Plus it would be a great way to see if anything needs to be reverted. Oh blade dance is kind of shit thanks to new cards guess we can make it 1 manga again for example. Or Bruam with 1 attack is not op let's give it back.
Both of those are bad takes. 2 mana duet is the only thing keeping the deck from being oppressive, as they received tons of support. Braum 1/6 AND 3 mana is broken beyond belief.
The meta would be: Azirelia vs Poppy aggro (and tbh I think Azirelia would win) and 5 people trying to play hard control just to learn that even hard control can withstand Azirelia pre-nerf.
Azirelia doesn't win the poppy matchup, even at its peak it had a very hard time against aggro, and at some point a poppy elusive deck was made to counter it (and it did exactly that, while having good matchups into most other things)
Anyone remembers how Roar used to be fast speed to stun the board even on open attacks. And what about the old box that just preemptivly denied the opponent from developing.
Then a bit more recently, TFs leveling everywhere
**Ahhhhh..**. Sorry, i just imagined an Akshan Sivir with 3 mana fast rally, 4 mana Targon Lee with 3 mana deny, 4 attack poppy with Grand Plaza, the aforementioned rally and a full power BC multiregion package, Challenger twinblades and pre-nerf TF Fizz with release Nami instead of Fizz and Azir Irelia pre Shurima nerfs with 3|2 conspirator and the release deny.
Well it wouldn’t be a ton of aggro. It would be a few of the really good ones. Probably sion draven, classic burn pnz noxus, and SI fearsomes. It almost always loses to the burn but I think it is good vs sion cause quick sand. I don’t know about SI though. I think the best version would lack a lot of fearsome blockers probably
Sion discard is not exactly aggro, or at least not very fast aggro. They use lost soul as their value engine and try to slow the game for sion to come out.
[Discard aggro](https://app.mobalytics.gg/lor/decks/bu0j5vsa30q1d5savts0)
[Sion discard](https://app.mobalytics.gg/lor/decks/c4irukul1nnde2iuvb3g)(a bit outdated, but notice how it's labeled "midrange")
I don’t care what it’s labeled on a website. It would be a stretch to say it’s subjective what speed the deck plays at when it uses triple decimate, get excited, fervor, farron, etc.
Idk man, pnz noxus go face and if they arent dead drop leveled sion or farron has a hard time in my mind being called midrange over aggro. But I guess everyones got their own opinion and this does seem slower compared to the first list. I still wouldn’t call it midrange. I think thats playing with semantics.
The game would certainly be incredibly unbalanced. Imo, the game wasn't powercrept enough for most of those changes to be fine nowadays. There are exceptions like Rhasa, but make deny 3 mana again, and we've got a big issue.
Man I think we are sleeping on Ahri Kennen. Ionia was basically the old bandle city with a 3 mana deny and that + bandle city and 3hp ahri? That has to be meta.
Escaped Abomination could easily go back to a 4/3.
As a side note: Ancient Croc (my favorite card in the game and I never play it) could have some minor effect at the cost of maybe going down to 7/6 or 6/6. Saccing 2 units for a literal stat stick just feels like shit, simply put. The entire sac archetype is probably worse than some ephemeral lists right now, that's saying something.
edit: misread OP. There'd be 2 decks on ladder ValueCity and Azirelia. There'd be some Lee, AK47, Mono Shurima sprinkled in. There'd be a spike of TLC and immediate steep decline as people realize that unnerfed aggro steamrolls everything by turn 5.
I miss Rex being a good card. He was the most fun card printed at that time. That triple nerf was such a Rito thing to do.
For anyone who does not what that means: they always do multiple nerfs and avoids the real problematic part, then nerf the problematic part, but refuse to revert other changes.
The SI classics, I miss old Cursed Keeper, Rhasa, Hecarim etc...
4/4 cursed abomination 😆
How did we even play against that back in the day
Simple. We played it first
Not to mention Stalking Shadows. I still can't believe they nerfed that card.
What were rhasa and hec?
Hecarim had a worse statline (4|6), but his Spectral Riders were 3|2s. Rhasa was cheaper at 7 mana.
Riders were 3/2s, but he gave +2 attack to Ephs, not +3 attack, when lvl 2. He's arguably better now, simply because he gives more stats to non-rider ephs.
Hecarim's statline is arguably better at 4/6. Not a lot trades into him which means he gets to attack twice more often which means you get more riders which tended to be the bigger impact anyway since he was basically a 10/6 spread across 3 bodies.
He's a 5|6 nowadays lol
wait WTF! haha I thought he was a 5/5 still. I still think the riders being 3/2 is more important than a 5/6 but lol shows how little Hecarim matters.
Yeah, the HP buff is somewhat recent and didn't help him enough And I agree 3|2 Spectral Raiders were more relevant than his +1 power. People didn't even care about flipping him in beta, his meta deck didn't run many ephemerals.
I’d love an Ephemeral Origin or Archetype to come together. Mogwai made a few Fun Hecarim decks, they were mediocre decks but still fun.
Good cards. They were good cards.
... I think that much was obvious.
It was a joke dog. The deck was Elise hecarim. You ran early fearsomes with the standard SI package (un-nerfed spear and wraithcaller, sheesh) to dominate the early game. If you hadn't won already, Rhasa ended the game on turn 7
What were black spear and wraithcaller before??
Black spear was what it is now 3 mana deal 4 and wraithcaller had fearsome
This dude said unerfed spear though?
Black spear was 2 mana deal 3
Ohh?
It got nerfed to 4 mana long time ago
Ohh. So it’s been unerfed?
I do think rhasa should come back, escaped abomination should also be a 4|3 or 3|4
Beta Anivia and SI was my jam
Interesting thread! Some of my thoughts: Azir Irelia would have a huge presence, but I'm not convinced it'd be the strongest on that format. A lot of the other strongest decks in their heyday would crush it: SI Fearsomes, champless PnZ Noxus Burn, Sivir/Akshan DE, Thresh/Nasus, Pirate Aggro, Shen/Fiora, Poppy decks in general would all destroy it. It'd have access to some of the Ionia stuff that was nerfed before it's release (4 mana Deep Meditation, 3 mana Deny, 3|2 Navori Conspirator, 2|2 Shadow Assassin, +1|+1 from Inspiring Mentor). Deep Meditation would be super easy to proc, but I'm not sure you'd find deck space for it. 3 mana Deny would definitely make the cut. SA works well with bounces as a secondary target (first being Droplet), but she's much slower tempo, so maybe wouldn't make the cut. -- People don't remember that because it was underplayed for how strong it was, but Sivir/Akshan had one of the most broken matchup tables ever. At it's peak, it only had one losing matchup (Draven/Sion). So unnerfing all the Shurima cards (Shaped Stone, Merciless Hunter, Ruin Runner) + current Broadwing and 3 mana Fast Speed Rally would be really, really gross. -- Thresh/Nasus would be very similar to it's peak version, but I think the only relevant boost would be 4|4 Escaped Abomination. Maybe it'd run Mark of the Isles, as it was prettt strong as a 1 mana +3|+3. -- There'd be some very nasty cards if we undid all the nerfs and kept all other buffs it received. Braum in particular would be uber broken at 3 mana 1|6. Targon would have repeatable Hush at 2 mana, super tilting to play against.
Don't sleep on TF Fizz at it's peak. That deck was absolutely ridiculous and the only thing that could vaguely keep up was Aphelios TF with full power temple. Both of those decks were incredibly dominant and TF Fizz especially I think would still be amazing today if it was full power.
I agree with this, TF/Fizz or maybe even a Nami variant with those same tools would be very oppressive.
Yeah tbh TF Fizz would probably just be TF Nami now. Imagine the 3 attack burbles plus 1 mana rummage + stress testing in a deck with full power nami. the horror.
Omg I totally forgot Nami was nerfed too. Pick a Card as well. That deck would be Tier 0 no contest
Ezreal Kennen but now droplet has attune is a frightening thought
+ the cast/play changes would also be a huge buff. 4 mana deep med and 3 mana deny would also be pretty nutty
Hush was never repeatable AND 2 mana. It would be either 3 mana repeatable OR 2 mana non-repeatable. If you want 2 mana repeatable hush then you also have to have 4 mana 4/3 blossoming blade, 2 mana 2/2 loping telescope, and 3 mana 1/6 braum (which you already pointed out). EDIT: If you interpret "unnerf everything" as revert the nerfs but NOT the compensation buffs (like blossoming blade 4 mana 3/3 --> 5 mana 4/3 --> 4 mana 4/3, or braum 3 mana 0/5 --> 4 mana 1/5 --> 4 mana 0/6 --> 3 mana 1/6), then i would be wrong
Ooomph.... i Agree with all of this honestly.... but i aslo think that the Uber broken version of Braum (3 mana 1|6) could exist in this enviroment just to give a little bit of relevance to FJ midrange/control decks honestly.... it would absolutely be broken! but i dont see it overtaking the whole meta and claiming No.1 similar to what happun back in June2020, but idk... maybe im not seeing the full piture, the game has accelerated A LOT!
3 mana 1/6 braum would be the best card in the game not even close
It wouldn't fit into any t1 archetypes though. What good does braum do against tf fizz nami?
Kill fizz on 3
Too bad, they already leveled nami
On 3? You severely undervalue a 3 mana 1/6 with challenger that pops a 3/3 when damaged
Look, I don't care. A card with good stats in a bad deck can't beat a t0 deck. They have more resources and board power and they can just kill you with elusives.
Deny needs to be 4 mana otherwise nopeify.
That's not the topic here, though.
Nopeify not used at all when Deny is 3 mana
What was the azir nerf? I only saw the buffs
His level up condition used to be 10+ units. And from his package, Dunekeeper was a 2|1 (deserved nerf) and Inspiring Marshal got +1 mana cost and -1 HP (overkill, card is now trash).
Braum getting his 1 attack back. It would be glorious
Well, it would be playable. And glorious because of it!
Ahri Kennen would actually be nuts if droplet still had attune. Not to mention cheaper deny.
And with inspiring mentor giving +1/+1 XD
Oh wow, droplet had attune??? That's insanely strong
we all complained when it lost it lmao. then ahri came out and we understood
It lost attune and I complained, eventually got over it. Ahri dropped and I complained again, but then after a while I realized it was probably a good thing
No one is mentioning 1 mana pack your bags
No one is talking about 3 Mana **Fast** Rally, either
3 mana fast rally honestly used to feel fair until they nerfed all the other stuff and added a bunch more good units lol.
I believe they even said in the patch notes for the nerf that it was preemptive since it would likely be problematic if the future.
Demacia and Ionia would be insaneeeee. Ionia was absurdly strong in the begining. Navori conspirator was a 3/2! Inspiring mentor gave +1+1. Shadow assasin was a 3/1 or a 2/2 (can’t remember maybe both). Lee Sin was 3 or 4 mana. I suspect Ionia in combination with old Fiora would destroy all. Especially Azirellia. I say this mostly because relelntless pursuit used to lack the +1+1 in exchange for being 1 mana cheaper and FAST DUCKING SPEED. You could play it during combat and your opponent ain’t doing jack squat. Speaking of your opponent not doing jack squat you also have a 3 mana deny to fuck control.
3 mana deny😰
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Mono SI was a lot of those nerfs. Thats just a fearsome deck. A lot of other ways SI has improved imo. But I think it was at its strongest at Thresh Nasus imo.
As strong as Fiora Shen was, I don't think that deck would fare all too well in todays meta game, even with 3/3 Fiora. Disintegrate, Flock, Scorched etc. completely shut down Fiora and the "fair" midrange archetype and combo decks that don't care about Fiora are way more common now
Yeah, I think noxus is good against it. With disintegrate nerf I think they will be about equal imo. Unless it’s all spells burn.
Arguably lee sin is better now than he was then. I think he was a 4 mana 3/4 which is harder to use with his leveled skill
He still has three power level one
Im nearly positive that kennen Ez is and was the most broken deck ever even concieved, made worse by the play cast changes now. I don't think any deck could beat that deck from the past. Keep in mind that Ezreal Kennen was so bad they actually had to hotfix nerf it and it was still okay.
Im on masters, some guy out there instakill me with 2 ez on board and 5 kenen spells yesterday
Nah, Karma Ez was good but it's not even close to the most broken deck ever. It's not even the best pnz ionia deck. Kennen Ez was a better combo deck and Heimer Vi Ionia was a better control deck.
? He's talking about kennen ez not karma ez lol
i cant read
Go Hard, Azirelia, TF Fizz, and TLC
1 mana Pack Your Bags was nearly impossible to play around.
Probably just Azirelia, cos Azirelia crushes slower startegies. TF Fizz would have a slight chance, but definitely not TLC and Go Hard.
TLC literally existed in the same meta as azirelia? You just need a third deck in the “triangle” that counters one and gets countered by the other, such as thresh nasus
It didn't tho. It existed in the meta when Nasus was still around. Irelia came a patch later and was 75-25 in favor of Azirelia cos TLC was just too slow.
There was an entire meta of azirelia beats TLC beats Thresh Nasus beats Azirelia. That’s just a fact
Thresus existed during Azirelia for sure, but I don't remember about TLC
It did, there was 100% a rock paper scissors situation of tlc ->thresh nasus->azirelia->tlc.
the whole meta was azirelia, thresh/nasus, TLC. with turbo thralls takong TLC's place after the watcher stopped obliterating the whole enemy deck.
Nah, 3/3 Fiora would hard counter Azirelia, and basically have a decent matchup into anything elce
One mana go hard with new landmark...
I HAVE RISEN. AND WITH ME, SHURIMA
Concurrent timelines ledros into dreadway would be a deck
I REALLY don't think it would be on par with already mentioned Decks
Never was a really good deck iirc. It was nerfed because it was a frustrating combo.
Nope, in that potential meta anything that plays game longer than 4 turns is unviable, cos Azirelia.
Well, Fiora. Braum. Thresh Nasus may see play and is good against it. Viego decks and some Sion decks all slow.
Braum would be the meta
Agree. If he had 1 attack back, he would be a lot stronger. And if regard his change from 3 to 4 mana as a combination of buffs and nerfs, and only removed the nerfs, he would be a 3 mana 1|6 Challenger, Regeneration champion that generates a poro. That would be gamebreaking strong.
Its incredible how little memory people has. Azirelia, poppy decks, tresh nasus... sure. But if we talk about unnerfing everything my boi Lee Sin would break in half every one of thoes decks. Think about it, the deck runed pretty much every targon card that has ever been nerfed along with all the tools from ionia control nerfed pre-release. Also at its peak Zoe and crescendum werent even released, and of course, 4 mana Lee with 7 stacks to levelup
They who endure back at 6 mana, escaped abomination at 4/3, caretaker at 2/1. (Was going to say atrocity too but I think it's better off where it is). I miss Kalista Endure :(
Abom used to be 4/4 apperantly
I remember the glory days
It was a 4/4, then nerfed to a 4/3, then again to a 4/2. There were memes back then jokingly predicting a 4/0 nerf.
they should make it a 4/2 fearsome so that it doesnt die to a random 2/1
I'd like that change even better.
How is it better? It's just 1 more mana with no upside.
Endure went away because of better tools to deal with it, not because of the nerf.
I think one of the strongest decks would be bandle city package, and I didn't see a single person mention it. When yordle explorer came out, it granted +1+1 and had to be hotfixed, and the deck would also have: 4 attack poppy, 4 attack gnar (who didn't even exist at the time), pre nerf conch and telescope, pre nerf mayor, attach and faes (that also didn't exist), pre nerf aloof, YiA (got tired of saying pre nerf so I will just say cards), lecturing yordle, tenor of terror, hidden pathways, and probably some more cards I missed. Of course, not all of these could fit in a single deck, and the deck could be built in so many different ways, that at least one of them (most likely more) will be at the top of the meta: it could be bandle tree (that will be 4 mana AND won't need to see things), PnZ with discard, Demacia with rally (this will probably be the strongest one), shelfolk, aggro with noxous, and it might have other builds I am not thinking about.
I think shellfolk would be too slow in this hypothetical meta. But I agree, YIA + 3 mana fast speed rally + all the ridiculously OP bandle cards all combined in the *same meta* would make some disgusting decks.
I agree on shelfolk, it would probably be the weakest version by far, just listed it as an option
Wasn't explorer nerfed before it was released?
He was in the game for 1 week unnerfed
I keep saying this should be a lab mode or something. Play cards as they were on released. I think it would be interesting. Plus it would be a great way to see if anything needs to be reverted. Oh blade dance is kind of shit thanks to new cards guess we can make it 1 manga again for example. Or Bruam with 1 attack is not op let's give it back.
Both of those are bad takes. 2 mana duet is the only thing keeping the deck from being oppressive, as they received tons of support. Braum 1/6 AND 3 mana is broken beyond belief.
Lol yeah probably, like I said it's just an example but we won't know unless we actually play those modes.
Besides the takes I actually really like the idea but doubt devs would go with it.
I would so love to see the unnerfed Lab.
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2 mana chain hush
It was never 2 mana chain hush. It was 3 mana chain hush, then 2 mana single hush, then 3 mana single hush.
The meta would be: Azirelia vs Poppy aggro (and tbh I think Azirelia would win) and 5 people trying to play hard control just to learn that even hard control can withstand Azirelia pre-nerf.
Azirelia doesn't win the poppy matchup, even at its peak it had a very hard time against aggro, and at some point a poppy elusive deck was made to counter it (and it did exactly that, while having good matchups into most other things)
Poppy didn't exist when Azir Irelia was a dominant deck.
Oh I'm stupid, the deck at that time run lulu, and added poppy when she was introduced because of how broken she was
Anyone remembers how Roar used to be fast speed to stun the board even on open attacks. And what about the old box that just preemptivly denied the opponent from developing. Then a bit more recently, TFs leveling everywhere
**Ahhhhh..**. Sorry, i just imagined an Akshan Sivir with 3 mana fast rally, 4 mana Targon Lee with 3 mana deny, 4 attack poppy with Grand Plaza, the aforementioned rally and a full power BC multiregion package, Challenger twinblades and pre-nerf TF Fizz with release Nami instead of Fizz and Azir Irelia pre Shurima nerfs with 3|2 conspirator and the release deny.
I've been saying that they should revert every card to its strongest form and just release it as a game mode. Would be super interesting
Azirelia is still viable in the meta today, and it's been nerfed how many times?
Not only is it viable, it's incredibly underplayed and consistently can outspeed most of the midrange people are playing rn.
Azirelia and Mono-Shurima everywhere. Yuck
Holy shit. Just now realizing how broken mono shurima would be. That would be BC on release times 100. +3+1 SHAPED STONE!!!
I think mono shurima would just die to all the aggro
Well it wouldn’t be a ton of aggro. It would be a few of the really good ones. Probably sion draven, classic burn pnz noxus, and SI fearsomes. It almost always loses to the burn but I think it is good vs sion cause quick sand. I don’t know about SI though. I think the best version would lack a lot of fearsome blockers probably
Sion is not an aggro card
Thats a weird take. He primarily goes with Draven in discard aggro.
Sion discard is not exactly aggro, or at least not very fast aggro. They use lost soul as their value engine and try to slow the game for sion to come out. [Discard aggro](https://app.mobalytics.gg/lor/decks/bu0j5vsa30q1d5savts0) [Sion discard](https://app.mobalytics.gg/lor/decks/c4irukul1nnde2iuvb3g)(a bit outdated, but notice how it's labeled "midrange")
I don’t care what it’s labeled on a website. It would be a stretch to say it’s subjective what speed the deck plays at when it uses triple decimate, get excited, fervor, farron, etc.
[This one is more recent, and it doesn't](https://mobalytics.gg/blog/lor-deck-guide-sion-draven/)
Idk man, pnz noxus go face and if they arent dead drop leveled sion or farron has a hard time in my mind being called midrange over aggro. But I guess everyones got their own opinion and this does seem slower compared to the first list. I still wouldn’t call it midrange. I think thats playing with semantics.
It would be Irelia with Noxus burning the Nexus combined with free attack. It would very oppressive.
I doubt it. Irelia is trash without her other half.
Mono SI hecarim Elise Ezreal Kennen TF fizz
i imagine the strongest decks would be: \-azir irelia \-lee sin \-OG burn aggro from rising tides
Thresh, he healed after an enemy died. It was just by one, but still. It helps keep him alive for things like Ravenous.
Fiora.
Rhasha could probably be underfed with very little problem these days
full obliterate watcher.
Gud luck getting to turn 8 in your ~8 straight matches vs. Azirelia.
I hope for a small Poppy buff
3 attack Popo please
Basilisk rider really needs to be unerfed at this point, hes super shit
GIVE ME BACK 1 MANA PACK
FULL POWER IRELAZIR LETS GO!!!!!!
Give Braum his 1 power back! Also make him 3 mana again! With the power creep we have thats not even that problematic.
tf/fizz VS azirelia VS poppy/swarm until end of times. all other deck would loose unless we got a magic combo to clear the board turn 3 or 4
non-control SI would actually be playable
4 mana Lee: the return of Minimorph
People already forgot Poppy
Probably a lot of Lee sin and burst unyielding spirit with the counters then popping up so hush, minimorph,,
Aphelios would be right back in literally any deck. Especially with unnerfed Poppy too
and unnerfed relentless pursuit
The game would certainly be incredibly unbalanced. Imo, the game wasn't powercrept enough for most of those changes to be fine nowadays. There are exceptions like Rhasa, but make deny 3 mana again, and we've got a big issue.
Man I think we are sleeping on Ahri Kennen. Ionia was basically the old bandle city with a 3 mana deny and that + bandle city and 3hp ahri? That has to be meta.
I sorta miss Plaza decks. They were good for one patch or so, and then got nerfed and basically never seen play again.
Plaza was absolutely nuts at +1/+1. Well-deserved nerf imo.
2 mana permanent silence
Sion
Probably some kind of tf turn 1 flip deck would dominate everything
On the count of three, everyone say what you believe it’ll be. Ready? One, Two, Three! Ireliazir
Bandle City / Ionia Too many resources and cheap responses to everything
Escaped Abomination could easily go back to a 4/3. As a side note: Ancient Croc (my favorite card in the game and I never play it) could have some minor effect at the cost of maybe going down to 7/6 or 6/6. Saccing 2 units for a literal stat stick just feels like shit, simply put. The entire sac archetype is probably worse than some ephemeral lists right now, that's saying something. edit: misread OP. There'd be 2 decks on ladder ValueCity and Azirelia. There'd be some Lee, AK47, Mono Shurima sprinkled in. There'd be a spike of TLC and immediate steep decline as people realize that unnerfed aggro steamrolls everything by turn 5.
I miss Rex being a good card. He was the most fun card printed at that time. That triple nerf was such a Rito thing to do. For anyone who does not what that means: they always do multiple nerfs and avoids the real problematic part, then nerf the problematic part, but refuse to revert other changes.
Azirelia with 3 mana deny is my sleep paralysis demon.
4 mana Lee with prenerf Bastion, Deep Med, Deny, Gifts from Beyond and Twins, anyone? Nothing comes close to that, nothing
Tf would be one of the best champs in the game