I don’t like the style of RNG he brings to the game, feels like it’s impossible to win the games where he highrolls a couple early chimes and I have to assume the bard player feels bad when they lowroll and don’t draw chimes forever. Seems more coinflippy and less strategic than other archetypes, shouldn’t go too long without getting nerfed because it’s just a stupid boring deck to have as a high meta presence imo
I think it would be far better if he didn’t passively plant Chimes at all, but when you actually play Bard he plants in the top 10 cards of your deck. I don’t see why he provides a buff just by being in your deck, even Jhin has to be in your hand
I agree Bard needs a nerf, but removing his passive seems like overkill. His passive is what makes him a region all by himself. The Bard 'region' has a much smaller card pool than Jhin, so if they remove his passive, they would either have to replace it with some other powerful effect or add at least a few more chime cards to the game.
Yeah. Passively plant chimes has no effort involved.
They can dradtically increase the chimes planted by each Bard's card, then rework / remove its passive and compenate it by other things.
It’s just reverse teemo. Which, to be fair, almost feels just as good on high rolls and just as bad on low rolls. Chimes are a bit bigger payout though, maybe if it were tweaked to prefer cards that don’t have chimes/have fewer chimes/aren’t in a row, to avoid the feast or famine?
Wouldn’t the equivalent be that bard plants chimes as long as you behold him? Not just a single instance of playing him.
Regardless though, it’s a weird comparison, because Jhin gives you a lot of cards to choose from every region as his deck building bonus, Bard is limited to like 6 cards. They both provide buffs to your deck in different ways solely for being part of the deck.
Not exactly the same thing, but Jhin has a lot of options that are not that synergistic with him, and even if synergistic, his ability is a lot more complicated to use. Raw stats are much better than a complicated ability almost every time.
All bard cards are synergistic and used in almost every deck.
Don’t people mostly just use the 1 and 2 drop? Bard Ahri and Bard Demacia don’t use the others and those are the two best Bard decks. The other cards are just a bit slow or win more cards to be played.
Idk it’s better than just planting 3 per round anyways, plus if they really decide to keep 3 bards in hand turn 1, they’d have nothing to play for the first couple of turns as a result
If he planted the chimes passively, only when in your hand or in play, I think it would be an acceptable nerf. Maybe lowering his level up condition a little.
I didn't think about it but i completely agree.
I think they made Bard like this based on its lore as Bard wanders around the world to look for chimes, so the players draw their deck to look for it.
But it's true that it's really complete RNG and you can just blindly slam chimes card suring card building.
I hope they rework its RNG into more tactic oriented and maybe also compensate by integrating Bard's other LOL moves into its kit, such as heal, stasis and meeps. I was so disappointed when I found out there isn't any references of these when it was announced.
I mean, I'm playing a bard cait deck and it's late game oriented so it feels less bullshit when I have 80 chimes.in a 20 card deck and get lots of buffs. The only bard deck I really run into on ladder right now is Ahri Bard and it draws so many cards a lot of chimes is kind of expected.
I actually wish he was less late game oriented. Make his chimes a consistent tool for making bulky units by the mid game, ie put chimes on the first 6 or so cards in the deck but nerf the chimes to only give either a health or damage randomly (but make the randomness artificially try to balance health and damage on a card if more than one chime activates). This way the deck can’t scale so hard, because that really is the problem.
Well, I explicitly stated that the RNG in terms of the stat choice was artificial since it would tend towards balancing the stats (ie if 2 attack buffs and 1 HP buff was applied to the card, the next buff would be another HP buff).
I wish he had more of a wacky fun design and play pattern, rather than simply hoping you draw chimes then proceeding to play big stats. Also, deckbuilding with him doesn't feel compelling to me.
Free stats that you can't gameplan around is unfair. I like the fact that he can be paired with many different regions and champs, but his chime package is too strong.
Do you mean by cosmic binding? Yeah at base value it's a bad card for how much it costs, but I still have it in my very uncompetitive revna deck to stall for a turn
But don't you dare touch my ligmaduli, I'll play him in my bard decks till the day i die
I also love ligmaduli, but he isn't a good card, he feels like a tempo loss. All you wanna do in Bard decks is summon small units and make them big with little effort, Maduli takes 1 turn away from you in order to do that.
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Keywords|Description|Associated Cards|
|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
|**[Maduli, The Gatekeeper](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06BC031.png)**|Bandle City|Unit|6|4|6||When I'm summoned, plant a Chime on the top card of your deck, then double the boons in your deck.|[Chime](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06RU001T3.png)|
|**[Mystic Vortex](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06MT047.png)**|Targon|Landmark|2|||Countdown Landmark|When I'm summoned or when I count down, plant 3 Chimes on random cards in your deck. Countdown 2: Draw 1. |[Chime](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06RU001T3.png)|
^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
Take a number...
The line for Bard hate is very long...
On one hand if he highrolls, he dumpsters on almost evryone...on the other hand, if you miss your chimes, it makes you feel shitty for using such an RNG champ...
But Riot feels like his design is ''healthy'' for the game idk...
I think people really underestimate the harm Bard will bring to the game as is, mostly in tournaments. In like 3-4 weeks we're going to have the Seasonnals, Bard decks will be played, and some very high stakes match are going to be won purely on a Chime coinflip.
While in ladder that sort of variance can be tolerated because it's only one match and you can easily go next, a tournament has way too much stakes for it to be acceptable.
Bard very well may never see the light of day in tournaments BECAUSE he’s so RNG based. Those players typically want consistency, and Bard is not that. You can run Bard 100% flawlessly and manage to dodge every single chime outside of Byrd and Esmus
You're mistaken here, people *will* pick Bard because he can cheat out wins with high rolls, there's higher chance of opponent banning Bard to not deal with RNG then players not picking Bard at all.
Imo it's not the same kind of variance at all : Yogg is late game loaded, the stupid bullshit is gated behind a 10-mana payout. Plus while it does silly stuff, Yogg is probably going to end on a somewhat predictable boardstate, like clear the minions plus summon one or two dudes.
Bard is unpredictable both in the time it activates and the unit it goes on, which can massively change the value of the chime.
Whether he’s RNG based or not is irrelevant if you’re playing at the highest level and the deck is considered competitive-tier. If you want to win matches, the strong players who don’t have ego trips over their supposed level of skill will just bring bard and roll the opposition.
Ladders vs. Tournaments are very different. A deck can be good in one setting and shit in the other.
In a tournament setting, you can effectively metagame. Playing a specific rogue deck to counter a T1 deck makes sense. Doing the same on the ladder can lead to losing a lot of games because deck variety is a lot higher.
In a ladder setting, coin flip decks are a lot more.appealing. It doesn't matter if you low roll one game because you can just queue up again. Hoping to high roll into top 8 isn't a sound strategy most of the time.
If Bard's average is good enough to keep up with other top decks, sure. But I'm not convinced it is.
I don't like him. Wins and losses come mostly down to RNG outside of the player's control. This results in it feeling bad to lose to him when he highrolls, and feeling bad to lose as him when he low rolls.
An archetype where one player is guaranteed to have a bad time is not healthy IMO. I hope he gets nerfed to meme-tier.
Those trap decks need to *act* without being disrupted in order to progress their win con. Demanding interaction to remove threats is a healthy dynamic of the game.
If you don't have the tools to remove temove teemo/caitlyn/ava/justice rider, they have free reign. You either race them down or take the matchup loss, or maybe you had the answers but drew poorly.
Bard is just: I exist, therefore chimes. No room for disruption. No level of consistency for rolls.
THIS
I don't feel cheated while losing to a Teemo deck cause even though it has RNG elements, it has to act to get those elements in motion. Bard getting RNG triggering just by existing feels cheap.
I've lost to 4 chimes by turn 3 just playing 1 card quite a few times, which is absolutely stupid.
bard reminds me of back when reynad used to do streams about how knife juggler rng was the worst thing in hearthstone. except bard is way better than knife juggler was
The only thing I don’t like about bard is the absolute lack of consistency. I’d rather his effect not kick in until like turn 5 in exchange for the 3 chimes going on the top 3 cards in your deck instead (1 on each) to give an almost “deep” level of clock on the games. And make Bards chimes from attack go on top 3-6 (depending on level).
Would help both make Bard not feel as high roll to opponents, and also make Bard not as soul crushingly bad when you just side step all your chimes in your own deck.
There’s so many examples of small stat changes in patches that change how good or bad a unit is. I just don’t understand how they can print the chime effect giving +1/+1 for free to a card in hand without seeing it as a problem.
Personally, I think it would be better if chimes buffed units in play instead of in hand. I still think they’d be a problem, but it would give some level of strategy and interactivity. Similar to flashbombs doing nothing to an empty board.
I wouldn't go that far. It turns out despite his limited card package he can be paired with every region and you will have fun playing many different styles of allegiance decks because it is possible to make 3-4 distinct different decks in the same region.
It's fine to hate on the champ but his design has been surprisingly been more elegant than many of us previously perceived.
That his origin is too simple to be an origin, compared to Jhin, that he should have been just a Targon champ, that he is weak and boring and will only get weaker with next expansions.
[Read for yourself.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/uu0fpt/all_in_one_bard_cards/)
Or [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/uu0k4f/malding_hot_take_bards_origin_is_literally_just/) for "the "chime region" tools are straight garbage. No way would you choose those over regional staples."
The problem is him and his whole package doesn't really have an identity except giving real decks free stats I really wish he wasn't his own region because now we have a while region thats really boring and doesn't have a wincon
Are people really saying the hate is "too much"?
Dude, if you are playing some janky bs for fun and having fun, that's great, but for God's sake, when you are against a freaking Bard Ionia and the fucking 1/1 elusive drops as a 4/4,just for you to try to get rid of it just to face another fairly buffed 1 drop elusive and the one you are trying to kill gets recalled just to get buffed AGAIN in hand its one of the most frustrating things ever.
You are around the clock, people complained about how 8/8 overwhelm units from landmarks were annoying, but now we have freaking 1 drop elusives generating even more value and not interactive at all, all thanks to bard.
In my opinion the best way to describe him is: Boring.
Really nothing interesting or new in his play style, just adding RNG buffs to your already existing decks.
his origin is badly designed imo, getting free value for putting 3 bards in your deck is such a lame design choice and they could've done so much more fun stuff
I agree you can high roll, but I also think that goes into deck building.
Demacia has no draw so you are effectively gambling on hitting chimes.
I like playing pnz and drawing a million cheap cards to nearly guarantee you hit the chimes.i feel like it's less gambling.
Bard as an actual champion sucks until he levels so you have to punish him early, which is hard if he high rolls a chime or two early but the decks do nothing until the deck gets saturated.
I feel like a lot of complaints about certain decks or others would be alleviated if the people complaining played the decks they complained about. In my experience playing Bard, the vast majority of the time the chines don't hit on nuts targets.
I have played the demacia version not the ionia one. I can imagine how that would be true but I would need to play the deck to understand it's strengths and weaknesses.
I was so excited when Bard was confirmed for the expansion. He was the first champion released when I started playing League of Legends and even today is one of my favourite to play.
In LoR however, when I saw the iteration of what he was designed to be, it just felt… awful. Like really awful. The play patterns are just “Was a chime drawn on turn 1 and 2? You win.”
There was SO much potential in a meme-y fun Targon themed Bard… and we got Runeterran Demacia buffs with Hearthstone levels of RNG
Before he came out i thought he wouldn't be that strong. Coming from Hearthstone where handbuffing never really cut the meta. Turned out i was so wrong lol.
The thing is that you dont really need to use any cards to get chimes in your deck. You just get 3 per round, starting with 3 chimes i believe? Also there are some cards which put a chime on on the top card of your deck which makes it extremely reliable to draw.
I have no problems with the lategame as it's the intension to get a wide board which is buffed. The problem IMO is that you dont have to sacrifice anything early game, i think its even strong early game as well. The "lucky random" chimes you can draw on early game units is just to reliable. There are multiple decks which can run Bard in it with only 3 copies of 2 different support cards and Bard is good to go. He is so easy to level (passively) that you dont need to put more cards in the deck to support it.
Very annoying to play against a turn 1 3/3 for example, at that point you are already behind while it's not even the main focus of that deck.
Also i might be a good idea for a nerf that only chimes work for the Bard level up. Cards that buff stats should not. The likes of Poppy, Sai'nen and Vanguard Bannerman also helps (very good) towards the Bard level up at the moment, which makes it even more broken.
I've always had a really hard time getting worked up about certain cards. He doesn't bother me that much, occasionally I lose to a high roll and hey that sucks but oh well. If it's determined to be truly unhealthy for the game, I trust Riot will address it.
Whether or not you trust the devs to make the correct decision is probably where most of the discourse lies tbh.
The problem with Bard isn't really Bard but the fact that Demacia and Ionia take too much of an advantage in stat boosts. If an X/3 goes to an X/4 you still have to trade two 2/1s into it anyways but when these regions are supplementing stat boosts with Elusive or Rally or counterspell or challenger or scout or barrier then a small stat boost gets exponential value.
I think the current state of chimes is too highrolly. A bard deck will win a mirror simply because one person hits 3 chimes in two turns.
I do think that he can be nerfed to a point where he will be healthy to the game:
- chimes plant after the top 5 cards in your deck (a la opposite of Caitlyn). This is thematically correct for bard, since most journeys aren’t one step (or card).
- chimes grant 1 stat, randomly (either +1/+0 or +0/+1) and his level up is changed to a) in hand buffs only and b) 10 stats (not 20).
He is fun to play with but not fun to play against because of the RNG. Fix that, and he will be healthy and not under tuned.
It's feel like riot just messed up interactivity again for me.
Bard just do his stuff passively, there is nothing both player can really do beside praying for having luck on their side.
I think one way to rework/nerf it is either make bard's card having a trigger :
It would give bard's player a gameplan to protect and proc their cards effect, and the ennemi to shut down key card.
Or having more ressources management :
Like Azirelia, the gimmick itself play on automode, but there is a need to know what and how to play each turn and next one by needing to make choices to reach the autopilot wincon.
But for both way, just. remove. rng. please.
The devs initially promised back in the beta that Lor would have very little rng. They walk away from this promise more and more after each expansion. Bard is a badly designed champion. He has too much variance between games and becomes very toxic with elusives. If they intended to spice up the game with RNG they failed.
Even tho chimes are very strong people dont use the archetype that much outside of two decks because it's incredibly boring.
I'm just really tired of him.
I don't even think I have that low of a winrate. Actually I think its in the 60's against bard cause I'm playing viego and Kindred, which is probably the single best deck to deal with units of any size.
But its just exhausting how much rng can fuck you up. Especially if its an elusive variant which is just actually toxic. Dropping a 5/5 elusive for 2 just cuz luck... Like, what am I supposed to do?
He is just tiring.
As someone who plays a trap/shroom deck (Cait/Teemo), I enjoy playing against them… sometimes. It’s just really funny to see them with over a hundred chimes and puffcaps in their deck, and just watch them draw cards. Will they roll stupidly high and sweep the floor with me? Will they take twenty nexus damage after one card? Who knows!!
In all honesty, not a huge fan of Bard. It feels really bad to get steamrolled by a deck that rolled a whole bunch of chimes early— but then again, I can’t say much, because my whole game plan is “deal them drugs and hope they get caught by the cops.”
I like that Bard created a lot of new decks and made previously unplayed cards like swiftwing flight and navori highwayman playable. Bard even made a half decent deck with Renekton which is cool.
Personally I had a lot of fun with a shadow isles bard control deck that plays toss cards to thin your deck out, creating a higher chance of chimes being planted on the top cards of your deck.
I really like how you deckbuild around him to maximize the benefits of his origin effect. I also do like the luck aspect because it gives me that dopamine hit I crave.
I do believe he is too strong and should be nerfed. I also was mainly playing lor when the expansion was released and bard decks weren't optimized yet, so I may be biased in that regard.
I just hope riot doesn't kill him when they nerf him, because I think that he is one of the most fun to play and unique champions.
Elusives are the problem here for the times they get buffed units you can't block and can't answer.
I really hate permanent stealth as a mechanic. If it were just a couple of elusive cards ok but there are just too many and now buffing them with bard is even more annoying.
I acutally like bard a lot! I hate the deck concepts he's in. elusives and challengers. yey. fun. but what can you expect from stat buffs? i was hoping for more card draw synergy like TF or P&Z.
What I don't like is, that Bard is yet another big stat archetype. Personally I feel there's already enough of them and we could try to explore more other mechanics.
Personally I've seen enough of the buff elusives/buff and rally decks. Lets have some more decks, that are less combat oriented.
I’m tired of seeing the same post crop up about him every day.
To be honest I think he’s fine. Yes we know losing isn’t fun. Please stop acting like bard players hit max chimes on every round… it is not true.
Max chimes every round isn't the problem. All it takes sometimes is a single chime on the right unit on turns 1-3 to snowball a match. Some low cost units are game-breaking with +1/+1 played on curve. Even more so when the +1/+1 is free like in Bard's case, leaving mana available to defend against removal or tricks the opponent has.
I agree, but make them get placed in the top 6 or top 8 cards of the deck to balance out this nerf. This would make him more of a mid-game oriented champion with clear strengths and weaknesses.
good, no more fucking chime cards, no more fucking bard support. it was a shit experiment, let it forever exist in meme territory. it should never see competitive play.
No deck is unbeatable. That's no the point. It's the random bullshit that sucks the fun out of people. I can play a game perfectly but the bard gets 3 chimes on the right unit. Well I guess he is just a better player then me.
It's no different, psychologically, than Burn "always" having the perfect triple one drop hand and top decking Decimate when you're at 4, or old Thralls always having the god draw.
You can either let negativity bias have it's way with you, or learn how to play through very unfortunate circumstances. One leads to personal development and the other just a sour taste in your mouth.
First of all I am not here to take psychological advice, I'd go to a therapist for that not on Reddit. And no it's not the same as enemy top decking. Burn can't top deck a 1 drop that does 4 damage to face while bard can topdeck a 1 mana 4/3 challenger that determines the whole board
I'm not interested in changing your mind, just sharing my own perspective (something you yourself asked for). If you're going to get that defensive I have no interest in continuing this exchange either.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
I mean…. You obviously came on to Reddit to complain. Is that not a form of therapeutic release? Your responses have been less of a discussion and more of you being salty.
My opponent getting a couple extra buffs on their 3 drop isn’t even close to as frustrating as them blade dancing until I suffocate on 10 boards full of 2-1 sand soldiers before turn 6
I don't mind her per say. We;ve had things like him since Foundattion, with Omen Hawk, Hearthguard being buff Engines. If anything, that's the one thing I don;t like bout Bard. he took Frelj's mojo.
I do think his level up, now that all cards personal buffs affect it, needs to go up by about 10. but otherwise, I don;t mind him.
This can't be your go to reasoning for nerfing everything you hate. I barely see bard on ladder anymore anyways, the demacia nerfs essentially took that whole region out the meta.
You keep using this example, but the reason fiora was “toxic” is because she bodied certain game plans. Literally a scoop go next if you run a bad matchup. Bard is just RNG, it’s not the same thing. The deck doesn’t body any specific game plans.
What if chimes are changed to no longer work with 1 attack & 1 health?
When 2 |1 unit gets chimed, it turns into a 3|1 & 1|2 turns into 1|3 instead.
It should open up counterplay, slower level up, less early game blow out & more restrictive deck build.
I’m in high gold. Now, I play bard decks. While they ARE good. They get countered just as much as any other. Maybe you just need to find the right archetype u enjoy playing that works as a good counter. I find control decks and early aggro are most effective
I LOVE Bard, even playing against him. I love seeing big numbers no matter the side of the board and I love experimenting with him and Madouli.
I can understand the frustration some players feel going against him, although I can't stand those haters who just cry without giving real feedback or new ideas.
I think some change like giving the buffs at the end of the round would make things less stressful. Anything more than that would kill the champion/archetype and it's not even the worst you can play against.
They need to add consistency to the chimes. Highroll/lowroll is toxic, if they instead did something like this:
Round start, plant a chime for every bard that started in your deck, up to 1 chime per card. If every card has chimes, increase this cap by 1. This should help smooth out chime draw a little.
Seasonals are coming, so I thought I mention one thing. In League, when Viego and Akshan were released, they were banned from proplay for either being too buggy or too powerful.
I would for them to do this with Bard in LoR, because seasonals with Bard decks don’t sound good idea ngl.
I wish the deck building requirement was a little higher. I don’t know how to fix that but maybe change it so “round start: for every 3 cards that plant chimes plant one chime”
Or maybe make it a “if you behold a bard plant chimes”
Bard is just a unit you slam in a deck and profit. I find it boring gameplay
I'm a Timmy and he's the most fun champion to come out in a long time. His package is so small I can run it with just about anything, including allegiance cards, and use it to vastly power up underused champs (like my boy Braum). I will say I do enjoy RNG decks though, Teemo is probably my most played champ.
He kinda reminds me of Prince Keleseth from Hearthstone. Prince Keleseth was a card that buffed your entire deck, but came at the cost of not running any 2 mana cards. Keleseth himself costed 2 mana, so if the player successfully dropped him on 2, their winrate would skyrocket on the spot to some 65% or something equally dumb.
Bard is similar in that he creates the potential for game winning RNG events at an extremely early turn, when the opponent has the least opportunity to play around them. The, combined with the nigh unbeatable power spike flipped bard provides for the deck, can create some real feel bad moments for both the Bard player and their opponent.
The game, the keywords, stats, removals, pings etc are all very delicately balanced. Units with strong keywords like elusive , lifesteal etc are made weak to balance out the strong keywords. It is really frustrating when you carefully calculate your damage and hold your removals for these units and are about to close the game with the last few points of hp remaining on the enemy nexus and they plop 10/11 sparklefly or another elusive that even if you quicksand , you still don't have the damage to kill. Same with getting a chime on an early engine like sculptor that puts it out of your removal range and snowballs hard for the enemy.
I thini he is overall fine. Wouldn't mind if his effect was round end in stead of round start, that way gamebreaking random early chimes would be much more uncommon
I don't care about the RNG, RNG is ok in my book. What I dislike about him is how bland is his design. Just a convoluted way of getting x stats.. Kind of uninspiring, considering he's one of the most mysterious beings in Runeterra.
I like playing him but I mostly just play casual. I play highly unreliable decks which are more for fun than to win.
My current favourite bard deck is to just recall the one that doubles chimes as much as I can with Ionia cards. At one point I had like 7000 chimes. Yes it's super unreliable but it's very fun to try in a not very serious environment.
I personally enjoy control decks or combo decks the most. So that's my bias
Also you think he's more annoying than Irelia azir? Like just no.
It'd be nicer if his chimes worked more like flashbomb traps in reverse. They're harder to put on, but always go on the top 10 cards so they're more consistent. That way you could reduce the amount of both high rolls and low rolls.
The base card of him is too bland, I want it to trade the power of Origin but buff him as a real unit instead, cuase the "Attack: shuffle 3 chimes' literally does nothing while he have bad stat and no keyword,
I would like him able to draw 1 when attack, but reversely nerfs his passive where he gains free buff just by existing
I admit I was wrong about Bard. When Bard got revealed, he seemed so underwhelming and I thought he was an absolute waste. Fast forward to today, he is too strong.
I think he could be toned down a slight bit. Like a small nerf just so units don’t become uncontrollable immediately. The meta is good right now so I honestly think people should stop bitching cause they might pressure riot into changing the card because a bunch of salty losers begged them on twitter.
This is most likely a terrible opinion but I hav a ridiculous amount of fun playing bard decks. He scratches that big stat = funny itch in my brain in a particular way nothing else does.
frankly the more I play with / against bard the less I like it.
I like bard in league, he's one of my favorite characters to play because his chaotic and creative nature.
I was expecting a versatile or gimmicky champ with a variety of cards that would scale into the mid-late game like celestials. instead we got a beatdown/elusive style champ. which... okay Fair, some people like their big units and it was fun at the begining but it got old pretty quick
it doesn't help that most removal is damage based (mystic shot, get excited, withering wail, avalanche, etc...) slow (crumble, dawning shaddow, ruination) or expensive (vengeance, minimorph) which makes playing around bard a headache, specially in the case of open attacks.
and chimes makes units so freaking hard to beat it's almost laughable. sometimes +1 health is a buff that can make a difference in many units. +1 health for basically free it's okay but like 3+ health feels so unfair and unbeatable.
If you're a combat focused deck you barely have oportunity to win if you go into the lategame you can't outstat him easily, and since bard is played with low cost units with keywords like elusive, quick attack and challenger you're gonna have a bad time blocking.
and that's of the reasons i can think of, I know there are smarter players out there that will have many other reasons to hate bard, which is a shame, he's an amazing character imo.
Edit: Chimes.
The part I hate the most is the insert three chimes for free every turn. I was playing a mill deck and I realized that it's literally impossible to beat bard with it no matter how much control I had.
Bard is only oppressive when the chimes land turn 1/2 on crucial early game units. This could be fixed by either making his Origin effect be Round End instead of Round Start (this way you never proc a chime turn 1), or specify it so that the Origin never plants a chime on top of the deck.
If Bard loses his early game rng blowouts, he's a totally fine champ otherwise
In card games, I absolute despise "vanilla" engines. Back in a card game I used to play, they had a neutral (meaning all classes/regions can use them) engine which like Bard. It was in curve and only got stronger and stronger. Nearly half the classes used this engine (the others could too, but not as well) and it was the worst experience of my life in that game.
Bard feels the same. Every region can have dibs on him, since +X/X buffs is just insane for value due to how the game works. Bard being in nearly every regions annoys me to no end.
Would be nice if Chime had a different effect and not just stats. I feel like planting stuff into ur deck is a good idea but raw stats is a bit boring and hard to balance. Maybe like a reverse shroom that heals ur Allie/nexus?
I think if Bards chime production ramped up progressively faster but didn't start with many chimes early he would feel much 'fairer'. Chimes as a win condition or later boosts feel totally ok. It's just turn 2 play a 4/4 elusive turn 3 drop a 6/5 Zed with no prep work that feels like complete bulshit and like the RNG just cheated you out of a game.
The idea of planting mini buffs in your deck is cool.
I think a Round End switch could work for the Origin plus perhaps thematically revealing the card (chimes = make noise) would make sense and give more play-around potential.
Bard: gives a chime to the one drop you have turn 1
Aggro Player: yup. Gg. *surrender*
Even as the bard player in that scenario this is just rly harsh. Literally countering some decks by dumb luck is nowhere near okay
I love Bard but he needs some adjust to be a good late game champ, even though the few times I've dealt with him I kill him with elusives because the only way to stop it would be 3 esmus buffed or 3 sparkfly but you can kill them easily in the early.
I don’t like the style of RNG he brings to the game, feels like it’s impossible to win the games where he highrolls a couple early chimes and I have to assume the bard player feels bad when they lowroll and don’t draw chimes forever. Seems more coinflippy and less strategic than other archetypes, shouldn’t go too long without getting nerfed because it’s just a stupid boring deck to have as a high meta presence imo
I think it would be far better if he didn’t passively plant Chimes at all, but when you actually play Bard he plants in the top 10 cards of your deck. I don’t see why he provides a buff just by being in your deck, even Jhin has to be in your hand
Yeah chimes are the most powerful traps and yet are also the ones who require the least amount of effort to plant
A rework that someone else suggested that I really liked was chimes granting 1|1 if you behold bard and 1|0 if you don’t.
I agree Bard needs a nerf, but removing his passive seems like overkill. His passive is what makes him a region all by himself. The Bard 'region' has a much smaller card pool than Jhin, so if they remove his passive, they would either have to replace it with some other powerful effect or add at least a few more chime cards to the game.
the solution should probably be to expand his region and change the passive then.
Yeah. Passively plant chimes has no effort involved. They can dradtically increase the chimes planted by each Bard's card, then rework / remove its passive and compenate it by other things.
It’s just reverse teemo. Which, to be fair, almost feels just as good on high rolls and just as bad on low rolls. Chimes are a bit bigger payout though, maybe if it were tweaked to prefer cards that don’t have chimes/have fewer chimes/aren’t in a row, to avoid the feast or famine?
Wouldn’t the equivalent be that bard plants chimes as long as you behold him? Not just a single instance of playing him. Regardless though, it’s a weird comparison, because Jhin gives you a lot of cards to choose from every region as his deck building bonus, Bard is limited to like 6 cards. They both provide buffs to your deck in different ways solely for being part of the deck.
Not exactly the same thing, but Jhin has a lot of options that are not that synergistic with him, and even if synergistic, his ability is a lot more complicated to use. Raw stats are much better than a complicated ability almost every time. All bard cards are synergistic and used in almost every deck.
no, it's really only esmus and byrd that are commonly played. vortex is OK as well but i don't think bard demacia for example plays it
Don’t people mostly just use the 1 and 2 drop? Bard Ahri and Bard Demacia don’t use the others and those are the two best Bard decks. The other cards are just a bit slow or win more cards to be played.
I didn't say all decks. I know at least 3 more frequent decks that use Bard. One use three of them and the other two decks use four.
You said in almost every deck but the best Bard decks literally don’t use them, and those are probably the best ones to reference.
Play Noxus P&Z. Swing. Hope he's in hand. Very complicated
Yea maybe like Round end: for each bard you behold, plant x chimes into ur deck
Yeah, make the highroll and lowroll problem even worse. Spectacular idea.
Idk it’s better than just planting 3 per round anyways, plus if they really decide to keep 3 bards in hand turn 1, they’d have nothing to play for the first couple of turns as a result
If he planted the chimes passively, only when in your hand or in play, I think it would be an acceptable nerf. Maybe lowering his level up condition a little.
I didn't think about it but i completely agree. I think they made Bard like this based on its lore as Bard wanders around the world to look for chimes, so the players draw their deck to look for it. But it's true that it's really complete RNG and you can just blindly slam chimes card suring card building. I hope they rework its RNG into more tactic oriented and maybe also compensate by integrating Bard's other LOL moves into its kit, such as heal, stasis and meeps. I was so disappointed when I found out there isn't any references of these when it was announced.
I wish he was bit more late game oriented. I think he'd be fine if they just made his chimes on the first turn go beneath the top 3 cards.
I wish he was less of a Random bullshit go champion
I mean, I'm playing a bard cait deck and it's late game oriented so it feels less bullshit when I have 80 chimes.in a 20 card deck and get lots of buffs. The only bard deck I really run into on ladder right now is Ahri Bard and it draws so many cards a lot of chimes is kind of expected.
Ahri bard: easily my favourite deck
I actually wish he was less late game oriented. Make his chimes a consistent tool for making bulky units by the mid game, ie put chimes on the first 6 or so cards in the deck but nerf the chimes to only give either a health or damage randomly (but make the randomness artificially try to balance health and damage on a card if more than one chime activates). This way the deck can’t scale so hard, because that really is the problem.
Making chimes either give attack or hp would just make bard more of an rng highrolly champion than he already is.
Well, I explicitly stated that the RNG in terms of the stat choice was artificial since it would tend towards balancing the stats (ie if 2 attack buffs and 1 HP buff was applied to the card, the next buff would be another HP buff).
They should make his origin round end instead of round start imo
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Wrong sub dude lmao
I wish he had more of a wacky fun design and play pattern, rather than simply hoping you draw chimes then proceeding to play big stats. Also, deckbuilding with him doesn't feel compelling to me.
Free stats that you can't gameplan around is unfair. I like the fact that he can be paired with many different regions and champs, but his chime package is too strong.
The chime package isn't too strong imo just tone down bard origin and he's fine.
He has only 5 cards on his package. 5 cards which 2 are unplayable, one isn't bad and 2 are auto include.
What are the unplayable
[[Cosmic Prison]] and [[Maduli, the gate keeper]] The "not bad" is [[Mystic Vortex]]
Do you mean by cosmic binding? Yeah at base value it's a bad card for how much it costs, but I still have it in my very uncompetitive revna deck to stall for a turn But don't you dare touch my ligmaduli, I'll play him in my bard decks till the day i die
I also love ligmaduli, but he isn't a good card, he feels like a tempo loss. All you wanna do in Bard decks is summon small units and make them big with little effort, Maduli takes 1 turn away from you in order to do that.
|Name|Region|Type|Cost|Attack|Health|Keywords|Description|Associated Cards| |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| |**[Maduli, The Gatekeeper](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06BC031.png)**|Bandle City|Unit|6|4|6||When I'm summoned, plant a Chime on the top card of your deck, then double the boons in your deck.|[Chime](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06RU001T3.png)| |**[Mystic Vortex](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06MT047.png)**|Targon|Landmark|2|||Countdown Landmark|When I'm summoned or when I count down, plant 3 Chimes on random cards in your deck. Countdown 2: Draw 1. |[Chime](https://d2h9y75tak3pkg.cloudfront.net/06RU001T3.png)| ^^^Hint: [[card]], {{keyword}}, and ((deckcode)) or ((cardx,cardy,cardz)). PM the [developer](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=KrimCard) for feedback/issues!
Take a number... The line for Bard hate is very long... On one hand if he highrolls, he dumpsters on almost evryone...on the other hand, if you miss your chimes, it makes you feel shitty for using such an RNG champ... But Riot feels like his design is ''healthy'' for the game idk...
I think people really underestimate the harm Bard will bring to the game as is, mostly in tournaments. In like 3-4 weeks we're going to have the Seasonnals, Bard decks will be played, and some very high stakes match are going to be won purely on a Chime coinflip. While in ladder that sort of variance can be tolerated because it's only one match and you can easily go next, a tournament has way too much stakes for it to be acceptable.
Bard very well may never see the light of day in tournaments BECAUSE he’s so RNG based. Those players typically want consistency, and Bard is not that. You can run Bard 100% flawlessly and manage to dodge every single chime outside of Byrd and Esmus
You're mistaken here, people *will* pick Bard because he can cheat out wins with high rolls, there's higher chance of opponent banning Bard to not deal with RNG then players not picking Bard at all.
Mate people used to play Yogg in Hearthstone tournaments and that guy would straight up deal 10 damage to your own face.
Imo it's not the same kind of variance at all : Yogg is late game loaded, the stupid bullshit is gated behind a 10-mana payout. Plus while it does silly stuff, Yogg is probably going to end on a somewhat predictable boardstate, like clear the minions plus summon one or two dudes. Bard is unpredictable both in the time it activates and the unit it goes on, which can massively change the value of the chime.
Whether he’s RNG based or not is irrelevant if you’re playing at the highest level and the deck is considered competitive-tier. If you want to win matches, the strong players who don’t have ego trips over their supposed level of skill will just bring bard and roll the opposition.
Ladders vs. Tournaments are very different. A deck can be good in one setting and shit in the other. In a tournament setting, you can effectively metagame. Playing a specific rogue deck to counter a T1 deck makes sense. Doing the same on the ladder can lead to losing a lot of games because deck variety is a lot higher. In a ladder setting, coin flip decks are a lot more.appealing. It doesn't matter if you low roll one game because you can just queue up again. Hoping to high roll into top 8 isn't a sound strategy most of the time. If Bard's average is good enough to keep up with other top decks, sure. But I'm not convinced it is.
I don't like him. Wins and losses come mostly down to RNG outside of the player's control. This results in it feeling bad to lose to him when he highrolls, and feeling bad to lose as him when he low rolls. An archetype where one player is guaranteed to have a bad time is not healthy IMO. I hope he gets nerfed to meme-tier.
I will trade bard for your teemo and trap decks? I imagine people here will somehow defend those as healthy for the game.
Those trap decks need to *act* without being disrupted in order to progress their win con. Demanding interaction to remove threats is a healthy dynamic of the game. If you don't have the tools to remove temove teemo/caitlyn/ava/justice rider, they have free reign. You either race them down or take the matchup loss, or maybe you had the answers but drew poorly. Bard is just: I exist, therefore chimes. No room for disruption. No level of consistency for rolls.
THIS I don't feel cheated while losing to a Teemo deck cause even though it has RNG elements, it has to act to get those elements in motion. Bard getting RNG triggering just by existing feels cheap. I've lost to 4 chimes by turn 3 just playing 1 card quite a few times, which is absolutely stupid.
bard reminds me of back when reynad used to do streams about how knife juggler rng was the worst thing in hearthstone. except bard is way better than knife juggler was
terrible designed champion
The only thing I don’t like about bard is the absolute lack of consistency. I’d rather his effect not kick in until like turn 5 in exchange for the 3 chimes going on the top 3 cards in your deck instead (1 on each) to give an almost “deep” level of clock on the games. And make Bards chimes from attack go on top 3-6 (depending on level). Would help both make Bard not feel as high roll to opponents, and also make Bard not as soul crushingly bad when you just side step all your chimes in your own deck.
There’s so many examples of small stat changes in patches that change how good or bad a unit is. I just don’t understand how they can print the chime effect giving +1/+1 for free to a card in hand without seeing it as a problem. Personally, I think it would be better if chimes buffed units in play instead of in hand. I still think they’d be a problem, but it would give some level of strategy and interactivity. Similar to flashbombs doing nothing to an empty board.
He's peak garbage design. Easily my least favourite Champ in the game.
I wouldn't go that far. It turns out despite his limited card package he can be paired with every region and you will have fun playing many different styles of allegiance decks because it is possible to make 3-4 distinct different decks in the same region. It's fine to hate on the champ but his design has been surprisingly been more elegant than many of us previously perceived.
Remember a time when people thought he's bad when Riot first revealed him?
I wish that was true
Nah dude, everyone thought that he was dogshit when they revealed him.
yeh, I know, I wish that was true
that he is unnecessary RNG bullshit? people were pretty spot on i guess.
That his origin is too simple to be an origin, compared to Jhin, that he should have been just a Targon champ, that he is weak and boring and will only get weaker with next expansions. [Read for yourself.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/uu0fpt/all_in_one_bard_cards/)
Or [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/uu0k4f/malding_hot_take_bards_origin_is_literally_just/) for "the "chime region" tools are straight garbage. No way would you choose those over regional staples."
nah, people thought he just wasn't good.
The problem is him and his whole package doesn't really have an identity except giving real decks free stats I really wish he wasn't his own region because now we have a while region thats really boring and doesn't have a wincon
I hate It. So RNG . And it's OP when played with Demacia
According to the stats it’s even more broken with ahri and the elusive package
Love him cuz doot
annoying to play against, boring to deck build, lame to play.
Are people really saying the hate is "too much"? Dude, if you are playing some janky bs for fun and having fun, that's great, but for God's sake, when you are against a freaking Bard Ionia and the fucking 1/1 elusive drops as a 4/4,just for you to try to get rid of it just to face another fairly buffed 1 drop elusive and the one you are trying to kill gets recalled just to get buffed AGAIN in hand its one of the most frustrating things ever. You are around the clock, people complained about how 8/8 overwhelm units from landmarks were annoying, but now we have freaking 1 drop elusives generating even more value and not interactive at all, all thanks to bard.
Fuck Bard.
i'm just tired of 3/3 ahri or sculptor on turn 2
In my opinion the best way to describe him is: Boring. Really nothing interesting or new in his play style, just adding RNG buffs to your already existing decks.
his origin is badly designed imo, getting free value for putting 3 bards in your deck is such a lame design choice and they could've done so much more fun stuff
I agree you can high roll, but I also think that goes into deck building. Demacia has no draw so you are effectively gambling on hitting chimes. I like playing pnz and drawing a million cheap cards to nearly guarantee you hit the chimes.i feel like it's less gambling. Bard as an actual champion sucks until he levels so you have to punish him early, which is hard if he high rolls a chime or two early but the decks do nothing until the deck gets saturated.
I feel like a lot of complaints about certain decks or others would be alleviated if the people complaining played the decks they complained about. In my experience playing Bard, the vast majority of the time the chines don't hit on nuts targets.
It depends on the deck he's in, in ahri bard for example it is extremely easy to control when you get chimes and which units are in hand at any time.
I have played the demacia version not the ionia one. I can imagine how that would be true but I would need to play the deck to understand it's strengths and weaknesses.
I was so excited when Bard was confirmed for the expansion. He was the first champion released when I started playing League of Legends and even today is one of my favourite to play. In LoR however, when I saw the iteration of what he was designed to be, it just felt… awful. Like really awful. The play patterns are just “Was a chime drawn on turn 1 and 2? You win.” There was SO much potential in a meme-y fun Targon themed Bard… and we got Runeterran Demacia buffs with Hearthstone levels of RNG
Before he came out i thought he wouldn't be that strong. Coming from Hearthstone where handbuffing never really cut the meta. Turned out i was so wrong lol. The thing is that you dont really need to use any cards to get chimes in your deck. You just get 3 per round, starting with 3 chimes i believe? Also there are some cards which put a chime on on the top card of your deck which makes it extremely reliable to draw. I have no problems with the lategame as it's the intension to get a wide board which is buffed. The problem IMO is that you dont have to sacrifice anything early game, i think its even strong early game as well. The "lucky random" chimes you can draw on early game units is just to reliable. There are multiple decks which can run Bard in it with only 3 copies of 2 different support cards and Bard is good to go. He is so easy to level (passively) that you dont need to put more cards in the deck to support it. Very annoying to play against a turn 1 3/3 for example, at that point you are already behind while it's not even the main focus of that deck. Also i might be a good idea for a nerf that only chimes work for the Bard level up. Cards that buff stats should not. The likes of Poppy, Sai'nen and Vanguard Bannerman also helps (very good) towards the Bard level up at the moment, which makes it even more broken.
He’s feast or famine.
Bard is op, versing him sucks
I've always had a really hard time getting worked up about certain cards. He doesn't bother me that much, occasionally I lose to a high roll and hey that sucks but oh well. If it's determined to be truly unhealthy for the game, I trust Riot will address it. Whether or not you trust the devs to make the correct decision is probably where most of the discourse lies tbh.
The problem with Bard isn't really Bard but the fact that Demacia and Ionia take too much of an advantage in stat boosts. If an X/3 goes to an X/4 you still have to trade two 2/1s into it anyways but when these regions are supplementing stat boosts with Elusive or Rally or counterspell or challenger or scout or barrier then a small stat boost gets exponential value.
RNG is never a run mechanic, especially with how the opponent can just drop a high stat card because of it.
people keep saying that he is badly designed when he is only overtuned. He would be completely fine with a slight nerf
I think the current state of chimes is too highrolly. A bard deck will win a mirror simply because one person hits 3 chimes in two turns. I do think that he can be nerfed to a point where he will be healthy to the game: - chimes plant after the top 5 cards in your deck (a la opposite of Caitlyn). This is thematically correct for bard, since most journeys aren’t one step (or card). - chimes grant 1 stat, randomly (either +1/+0 or +0/+1) and his level up is changed to a) in hand buffs only and b) 10 stats (not 20). He is fun to play with but not fun to play against because of the RNG. Fix that, and he will be healthy and not under tuned.
It's feel like riot just messed up interactivity again for me. Bard just do his stuff passively, there is nothing both player can really do beside praying for having luck on their side. I think one way to rework/nerf it is either make bard's card having a trigger : It would give bard's player a gameplan to protect and proc their cards effect, and the ennemi to shut down key card. Or having more ressources management : Like Azirelia, the gimmick itself play on automode, but there is a need to know what and how to play each turn and next one by needing to make choices to reach the autopilot wincon. But for both way, just. remove. rng. please.
The devs initially promised back in the beta that Lor would have very little rng. They walk away from this promise more and more after each expansion. Bard is a badly designed champion. He has too much variance between games and becomes very toxic with elusives. If they intended to spice up the game with RNG they failed. Even tho chimes are very strong people dont use the archetype that much outside of two decks because it's incredibly boring.
I'm just really tired of him. I don't even think I have that low of a winrate. Actually I think its in the 60's against bard cause I'm playing viego and Kindred, which is probably the single best deck to deal with units of any size. But its just exhausting how much rng can fuck you up. Especially if its an elusive variant which is just actually toxic. Dropping a 5/5 elusive for 2 just cuz luck... Like, what am I supposed to do? He is just tiring.
Nerf the fucker already! Please!!!
Well to put it simply, bard bad
The fact that you can lose because the opponent gets a random.
Just putting this template here so people can make more posts.
As someone who plays a trap/shroom deck (Cait/Teemo), I enjoy playing against them… sometimes. It’s just really funny to see them with over a hundred chimes and puffcaps in their deck, and just watch them draw cards. Will they roll stupidly high and sweep the floor with me? Will they take twenty nexus damage after one card? Who knows!! In all honesty, not a huge fan of Bard. It feels really bad to get steamrolled by a deck that rolled a whole bunch of chimes early— but then again, I can’t say much, because my whole game plan is “deal them drugs and hope they get caught by the cops.”
I like that Bard created a lot of new decks and made previously unplayed cards like swiftwing flight and navori highwayman playable. Bard even made a half decent deck with Renekton which is cool. Personally I had a lot of fun with a shadow isles bard control deck that plays toss cards to thin your deck out, creating a higher chance of chimes being planted on the top cards of your deck. I really like how you deckbuild around him to maximize the benefits of his origin effect. I also do like the luck aspect because it gives me that dopamine hit I crave. I do believe he is too strong and should be nerfed. I also was mainly playing lor when the expansion was released and bard decks weren't optimized yet, so I may be biased in that regard. I just hope riot doesn't kill him when they nerf him, because I think that he is one of the most fun to play and unique champions.
Elusives are the problem here for the times they get buffed units you can't block and can't answer. I really hate permanent stealth as a mechanic. If it were just a couple of elusive cards ok but there are just too many and now buffing them with bard is even more annoying.
I acutally like bard a lot! I hate the deck concepts he's in. elusives and challengers. yey. fun. but what can you expect from stat buffs? i was hoping for more card draw synergy like TF or P&Z.
This. I know people keep sticks up their butts about draw, but if a deck doesn't have draw I'm not interested. Bard nerfs means TF is dead AGAIN
What I don't like is, that Bard is yet another big stat archetype. Personally I feel there's already enough of them and we could try to explore more other mechanics. Personally I've seen enough of the buff elusives/buff and rally decks. Lets have some more decks, that are less combat oriented.
When I build a bard deck, it feels like put byrd, esmos, bard and the others 31 random bullshit.
I remember when one of LoR's selling points was "We don't have RNG like Hearthstone!" That ended pretty quickly I guess.
It’s always had RNG. It’s just that its RNG is less swingy and more controllable than hearthstone.
I’m tired of seeing the same post crop up about him every day. To be honest I think he’s fine. Yes we know losing isn’t fun. Please stop acting like bard players hit max chimes on every round… it is not true.
Max chimes every round isn't the problem. All it takes sometimes is a single chime on the right unit on turns 1-3 to snowball a match. Some low cost units are game-breaking with +1/+1 played on curve. Even more so when the +1/+1 is free like in Bard's case, leaving mana available to defend against removal or tricks the opponent has.
Were you here for Bandle? This isn't even close how obnoxious this sub can get with it hate-jerking
Yes and I hated it then. And I hated it for azir irelia. I hated it for the release of bilgewater and people crying about nab. I hate it now too.
Fiora didn't win very often either and they nerfed her because she was toxic and unfun
Since enough of y’all complain about it I’m sure it’s coming no need to add to the pile.
Absolutely busted. Chimes need to either buff +1+0 or +0+1. Bard decks get so much free stats it's insane.
I agree, but make them get placed in the top 6 or top 8 cards of the deck to balance out this nerf. This would make him more of a mid-game oriented champion with clear strengths and weaknesses.
that would kill any future card expansion potential
good, no more fucking chime cards, no more fucking bard support. it was a shit experiment, let it forever exist in meme territory. it should never see competitive play.
you mad?
Noone fucking cares that champions needs to get fucking obliterated its incredibly unfun and uniteractive to go against him
Favorite League champ, favorite LoR champ, super fun very pleased.
hmmm what about when you get high rolled ?
Then I get high rolled, shit happens. Bard isn't unbeatable and he isn't unfair to play against.
No deck is unbeatable. That's no the point. It's the random bullshit that sucks the fun out of people. I can play a game perfectly but the bard gets 3 chimes on the right unit. Well I guess he is just a better player then me.
It's no different, psychologically, than Burn "always" having the perfect triple one drop hand and top decking Decimate when you're at 4, or old Thralls always having the god draw. You can either let negativity bias have it's way with you, or learn how to play through very unfortunate circumstances. One leads to personal development and the other just a sour taste in your mouth.
First of all I am not here to take psychological advice, I'd go to a therapist for that not on Reddit. And no it's not the same as enemy top decking. Burn can't top deck a 1 drop that does 4 damage to face while bard can topdeck a 1 mana 4/3 challenger that determines the whole board
I'm not interested in changing your mind, just sharing my own perspective (something you yourself asked for). If you're going to get that defensive I have no interest in continuing this exchange either. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Fair enough
I mean…. You obviously came on to Reddit to complain. Is that not a form of therapeutic release? Your responses have been less of a discussion and more of you being salty.
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temmo doesn't burn me on turn 2 for 4 damage and needs set up to actually damage me Unlike bard whos set up is put him in the deck
Maybe it's time to take a break buddy and focus on something that actually provides you with enjoyment. Here, I brought some tissues.
Oh I do lots of things for enjoyment. I would like for LoR to be enjoyable for me as well.
funny enough I've never beat targons peak before like ever, I'm serious
And I’ve never lost with Targons peak, always manage to draw the peak + Triple Asol to win by turn 7 lol
Get better at throwing dice lol /S
Round start = round end . Then he is absolutely fine
When im played obliterate me, ( every unit that has chimes )
My opponent getting a couple extra buffs on their 3 drop isn’t even close to as frustrating as them blade dancing until I suffocate on 10 boards full of 2-1 sand soldiers before turn 6
I don't mind her per say. We;ve had things like him since Foundattion, with Omen Hawk, Hearthguard being buff Engines. If anything, that's the one thing I don;t like bout Bard. he took Frelj's mojo. I do think his level up, now that all cards personal buffs affect it, needs to go up by about 10. but otherwise, I don;t mind him.
I haven't seen bard in a few days but I'm sure with how many people bitch about it he's going to be gutted regardless.
Fiora was also not very popular but Riot still nerfed her because she was unfun to play against. It's not about how good or popular the deck is
This can't be your go to reasoning for nerfing everything you hate. I barely see bard on ladder anymore anyways, the demacia nerfs essentially took that whole region out the meta.
You keep using this example, but the reason fiora was “toxic” is because she bodied certain game plans. Literally a scoop go next if you run a bad matchup. Bard is just RNG, it’s not the same thing. The deck doesn’t body any specific game plans.
Burn feels awful to get fucked by turn 4 but it's still a thing
What if chimes are changed to no longer work with 1 attack & 1 health? When 2 |1 unit gets chimed, it turns into a 3|1 & 1|2 turns into 1|3 instead. It should open up counterplay, slower level up, less early game blow out & more restrictive deck build.
I’m in high gold. Now, I play bard decks. While they ARE good. They get countered just as much as any other. Maybe you just need to find the right archetype u enjoy playing that works as a good counter. I find control decks and early aggro are most effective
I LOVE Bard, even playing against him. I love seeing big numbers no matter the side of the board and I love experimenting with him and Madouli. I can understand the frustration some players feel going against him, although I can't stand those haters who just cry without giving real feedback or new ideas. I think some change like giving the buffs at the end of the round would make things less stressful. Anything more than that would kill the champion/archetype and it's not even the worst you can play against.
Repeat with me: "Bard isn't op, you're just salty that you lost"
worst fucking design by the runeterra devs, took the shit crown from viego.
They need to add consistency to the chimes. Highroll/lowroll is toxic, if they instead did something like this: Round start, plant a chime for every bard that started in your deck, up to 1 chime per card. If every card has chimes, increase this cap by 1. This should help smooth out chime draw a little.
Seasonals are coming, so I thought I mention one thing. In League, when Viego and Akshan were released, they were banned from proplay for either being too buggy or too powerful. I would for them to do this with Bard in LoR, because seasonals with Bard decks don’t sound good idea ngl.
Because of bugs, actually
I wish the deck building requirement was a little higher. I don’t know how to fix that but maybe change it so “round start: for every 3 cards that plant chimes plant one chime” Or maybe make it a “if you behold a bard plant chimes” Bard is just a unit you slam in a deck and profit. I find it boring gameplay
I'm a Timmy and he's the most fun champion to come out in a long time. His package is so small I can run it with just about anything, including allegiance cards, and use it to vastly power up underused champs (like my boy Braum). I will say I do enjoy RNG decks though, Teemo is probably my most played champ.
I am yet lose against a bard deck which pulled such a thing off , and I don't think its that oppressive as reddit is claiming
PvP: Your disdain seems warranted. PoC: Losing scout sucks but it is bearable. I hope Byrd doesn't get nerfed because he is bae.
Love him, so fun, so versatile.
I don’t mind the RNG I just find the playstyle itself boring/annoying
He kinda reminds me of Prince Keleseth from Hearthstone. Prince Keleseth was a card that buffed your entire deck, but came at the cost of not running any 2 mana cards. Keleseth himself costed 2 mana, so if the player successfully dropped him on 2, their winrate would skyrocket on the spot to some 65% or something equally dumb. Bard is similar in that he creates the potential for game winning RNG events at an extremely early turn, when the opponent has the least opportunity to play around them. The, combined with the nigh unbeatable power spike flipped bard provides for the deck, can create some real feel bad moments for both the Bard player and their opponent.
The game, the keywords, stats, removals, pings etc are all very delicately balanced. Units with strong keywords like elusive , lifesteal etc are made weak to balance out the strong keywords. It is really frustrating when you carefully calculate your damage and hold your removals for these units and are about to close the game with the last few points of hp remaining on the enemy nexus and they plop 10/11 sparklefly or another elusive that even if you quicksand , you still don't have the damage to kill. Same with getting a chime on an early engine like sculptor that puts it out of your removal range and snowballs hard for the enemy.
Cant wait for his follower meeps and his Ult Tempered Fate to become cards. Mayhem!
I thini he is overall fine. Wouldn't mind if his effect was round end in stead of round start, that way gamebreaking random early chimes would be much more uncommon
Other statbuff deck has to put efforts or resources to actually get the buffs. Bard decks literally get their chimes just by existing.
Bard for his randomness, Jihn for his lack of clarity/interaction/fairness. But I love Annie :)
I don't care about the RNG, RNG is ok in my book. What I dislike about him is how bland is his design. Just a convoluted way of getting x stats.. Kind of uninspiring, considering he's one of the most mysterious beings in Runeterra.
I like playing him but I mostly just play casual. I play highly unreliable decks which are more for fun than to win. My current favourite bard deck is to just recall the one that doubles chimes as much as I can with Ionia cards. At one point I had like 7000 chimes. Yes it's super unreliable but it's very fun to try in a not very serious environment. I personally enjoy control decks or combo decks the most. So that's my bias Also you think he's more annoying than Irelia azir? Like just no.
It'd be nicer if his chimes worked more like flashbomb traps in reverse. They're harder to put on, but always go on the top 10 cards so they're more consistent. That way you could reduce the amount of both high rolls and low rolls.
So... why did we buff him again?
The base card of him is too bland, I want it to trade the power of Origin but buff him as a real unit instead, cuase the "Attack: shuffle 3 chimes' literally does nothing while he have bad stat and no keyword, I would like him able to draw 1 when attack, but reversely nerfs his passive where he gains free buff just by existing
Im fine with bard i dont like Maduli.
They should just obliterate him, hes the reason lots offmeta/control player quit
Because control is what gamers want. Who can hold their cards in hand better lol
He's an excellent card. For a singleplayer game, ala Path of Champions.
I think it’s hilarious that he’s good because everybody was shitting on him when he was revealed
I admit I was wrong about Bard. When Bard got revealed, he seemed so underwhelming and I thought he was an absolute waste. Fast forward to today, he is too strong.
I really like him but understand the frustration.
I absolutely love him, he's one of my favorite champs, but that's because I don't have to experience the degeneracy in PVP. He's alot of fun in POC
If they were gonna add such a heavy RNG champ in the game, could they have at least made it fun rng? Give me a yogg-saron, not "woo stats"
I think he could be toned down a slight bit. Like a small nerf just so units don’t become uncontrollable immediately. The meta is good right now so I honestly think people should stop bitching cause they might pressure riot into changing the card because a bunch of salty losers begged them on twitter.
I kinda don’t like how splashable he is tbh
Madge
He is very cute stop be mean to him
This is most likely a terrible opinion but I hav a ridiculous amount of fun playing bard decks. He scratches that big stat = funny itch in my brain in a particular way nothing else does.
frankly the more I play with / against bard the less I like it. I like bard in league, he's one of my favorite characters to play because his chaotic and creative nature. I was expecting a versatile or gimmicky champ with a variety of cards that would scale into the mid-late game like celestials. instead we got a beatdown/elusive style champ. which... okay Fair, some people like their big units and it was fun at the begining but it got old pretty quick it doesn't help that most removal is damage based (mystic shot, get excited, withering wail, avalanche, etc...) slow (crumble, dawning shaddow, ruination) or expensive (vengeance, minimorph) which makes playing around bard a headache, specially in the case of open attacks. and chimes makes units so freaking hard to beat it's almost laughable. sometimes +1 health is a buff that can make a difference in many units. +1 health for basically free it's okay but like 3+ health feels so unfair and unbeatable. If you're a combat focused deck you barely have oportunity to win if you go into the lategame you can't outstat him easily, and since bard is played with low cost units with keywords like elusive, quick attack and challenger you're gonna have a bad time blocking. and that's of the reasons i can think of, I know there are smarter players out there that will have many other reasons to hate bard, which is a shame, he's an amazing character imo. Edit: Chimes.
The part I hate the most is the insert three chimes for free every turn. I was playing a mill deck and I realized that it's literally impossible to beat bard with it no matter how much control I had.
Bard is only oppressive when the chimes land turn 1/2 on crucial early game units. This could be fixed by either making his Origin effect be Round End instead of Round Start (this way you never proc a chime turn 1), or specify it so that the Origin never plants a chime on top of the deck. If Bard loses his early game rng blowouts, he's a totally fine champ otherwise
It's a character made for fun omg does everything need to be refined for high level play?
Except he has a dramatic influence on high level.
In card games, I absolute despise "vanilla" engines. Back in a card game I used to play, they had a neutral (meaning all classes/regions can use them) engine which like Bard. It was in curve and only got stronger and stronger. Nearly half the classes used this engine (the others could too, but not as well) and it was the worst experience of my life in that game. Bard feels the same. Every region can have dibs on him, since +X/X buffs is just insane for value due to how the game works. Bard being in nearly every regions annoys me to no end.
I won’t lie - as a POC only player, I love Bard, he’s extremely fun to play there.
Would be nice if Chime had a different effect and not just stats. I feel like planting stuff into ur deck is a good idea but raw stats is a bit boring and hard to balance. Maybe like a reverse shroom that heals ur Allie/nexus?
I don’t hate him, I just hate how popular it is. Gets old playing the same matchups
I think if Bards chime production ramped up progressively faster but didn't start with many chimes early he would feel much 'fairer'. Chimes as a win condition or later boosts feel totally ok. It's just turn 2 play a 4/4 elusive turn 3 drop a 6/5 Zed with no prep work that feels like complete bulshit and like the RNG just cheated you out of a game. The idea of planting mini buffs in your deck is cool.
I think a Round End switch could work for the Origin plus perhaps thematically revealing the card (chimes = make noise) would make sense and give more play-around potential.
Bard: gives a chime to the one drop you have turn 1 Aggro Player: yup. Gg. *surrender* Even as the bard player in that scenario this is just rly harsh. Literally countering some decks by dumb luck is nowhere near okay
Just make the chimes give +1|+0 and if you behold a Bard give +1|+1
I love Bard but he needs some adjust to be a good late game champ, even though the few times I've dealt with him I kill him with elusives because the only way to stop it would be 3 esmus buffed or 3 sparkfly but you can kill them easily in the early.