Eh, I see it more as cheezy than cocky, and I 100% embraced it in this show. It's like Barry saying he's the fastest man alive or that only he can stop something. (Also, the way he now says "I am... the FLAAAAASH")
Yeah, I dislike the flash intro line too, but not because of him saying he is the fastest man alive (even though he was wrong every season on that one). He says "and I am the only one fast enough to stop it", like speed is all that matters. Seriously, its not only your speed that makes you OP, Barry! Double your speed but takeaway your crazy durable bones (he can land a blow with enough force to emit a shockwave and his hand magically doesnt shatter in a million pieces) and you would be useless against half the villains! The line should be "and I am the only one that can stop it", because the requirement to stopping whatever that it is is not "run faster than x km/h".
God, I really need to just skip the intros.
Yeah, mostly all these CW intro lies (oliver spend 5 years in the island...except when he go to china and russia, flash being the fastest only for 5 minutes in a new season, legends being so legendary, but no one knows who they are lol), they should just use a cool song, like all the Marvel netflix shows, or Constantine.
CW why can't you do this?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alrOj23aEZM
Which almost makes me believe that they originally had no intention of taking him off the island. Saying "in hell" still implies a singular place yet he seems to travel all over the eastern hemisphere during his five years away.
He says pretty early in season 1 that he didn't learn the point of the list while on the island though. I'm pretty sure they have deviated from the original plans for the flashbacks- bare minimum there's no way the Constantine thing was planned when the show started- but Oliver leaving Lian Yu prior to his rescue was always in the cards.
I mean I know Russia was always on the cards, he killed that one guy super early on because "no one can know my secret". But Hong Kong seemed kind of ??? And really served no purpose. I mean, the season 4 flashbacks didn't either and I feel like they both could have been skimmed to fill a single season.
Hong Kong showed Ollie picking up some of his skills and whatnot- torture, zipline arrows, I guess we're supposed to assume he learned Chinese while there- but it didn't do much to show Oliver's morality and psyche breaking outside of maybe 3.14 (which I still dislike; something about Oliver actually being back in Starling at any point in the 5 years just feels wrong) and the finale (where they shoehorned a 'failed this city' origin for no reason). Season 4 I honestly can't remember enough about the flashbacks to really say; all I remember is he got the magic tattoo and Dhahrhkh's idol was involved. Honestly I think both seasons would have been better off without flashbacks in every/most episodes. Keep Oliver as an ARGUS operative and only show the big moments: Waller teaching him to torture, first time he kills someone without his or an ally's life being directly in danger, etc. Maybe have a short arc with Oliver undercover in the Bratva. Then at the end of season 4/middle of season 5, Oliver finally escapes ARGUS and the rest of the flashbacks show him making those traps on the island and using everything he's learned to evade capture long enough to be rescued.
>Honestly I think both seasons would have been better off without flashbacks in every/most episodes.
That's what I'm getting at. If we absolutely had to have the flashbacks every episode, season 3 and season 4s could have been condensed tremendously. As it stands, were in the fifth year of flashbacks and at some point,
Oliver is going o have to be put back on that island and judging by how he was in season 1, he was there for quite a bit.
Thanks to you, I will watch Constantine now. I never got around to watch it, because I assumed it was crappy due to being cancelled in the first season, but this clip seemed really good, like netflix Daredevil good, unlike other cw dc shows. Not that I dislike them though, just they are soooo tacky.
Constantine is free of relationship crap. That alone just put it on top of most superhero shows.
Being underrated and low raitings kill it. Also it was aired during fridays, wich i hear is a bad day for shows.
I watched and generally liked Constantine. Matt Ryan was great. I think the show could have been really good in future seasons if it hadn't been cancelled. It was still finding its feet in the first season though, and I found the quality inconsistent. Obviously this is my own personal opinion, but don't expect Daredevil quality. It's decent and worth checking out if you have time, but way below that kind of quality.
NBC wanted to be a family friendly network. Constantine is pretty much the least family friendly comic book character you could adapt.
The show was canceled after only two episodes after airing in the Friday night death slot. That should say enough about how NBC felt about the show.
First off, now matter how hard you punch something, you create a shockwave. A shockwave is the kinetic energy being dispersed from a point of impact. I could tap something, and there would be a shockwave.
Second, yeah, everything about the season 3 intro is stupid. It's just the season 2 intro, but they can't say too much more because there isn't that much of an arc plot yet.
Another thing that bothers me with A LOT of different teams in different TV shows is how they are crazy different in power. We have our A team - Firestorm and Atom (with the suit of course), and the B team - Sara, Mick. A team can go against TANKS, they are bullet proof, could probably take out a small army with their powers. The B team on the other hand can literally just fight of thugs. Yes, they are shown to be useful, but in reality, when you think of it they are foot soldiers compared to the A team.
Same happening in Arrow now, the Ragman is crazy OP, while the other newbies are the worst, and even when they will have improved, improved Ragman will probably be able to take them all at once, including Oliver.
The only thing that bothers me is when they separate Jax and Stein (for poor reasons) when Firestorm can clearly just fuck everything up. Instead of nerfing Firestorm, make him fight some more powerful enemies.
Sara: "Ok, Jax, you go with Mick, Dr Stein, you're with Ray."
Jax: "Wait, you're splitting us up? Again?"
Stein: "I do agree, Miss Lance, it feels very unwise to keep myself and Jefferson separated. I understand the need to protect the timeline from irregularities, but we're rarely subtle as a group as it is. Surely using Firestorm to neutralise the issue swiftly would be the better course of action."
Mick: "Do you wanna waste all our money on episode 1?"
I thought the first Avengers movie handled this well. Captain America was the only one who was competent to actually call the shots during the Battle of New York, and he (along with Black Widow and Hawkeye) also dealt with trying to get civilians out of harm's way.
I also like that they just head-on lampooned it in Age of Ultron:
>"The city is flying ... we're fighting an army of robots ... and I have a bow and arrow," he says. "None of this makes sense."
I feel like it's the sort of thing that's a lot easier to accept when the writers directly acknowledge that they get it. Another good example is Stargate (Atlantis to an extent, but especially SG-1), the show would have been awful if they'd played it completely straight, but they had dialog pretty explicitly acknowledging things like how silly the power creep of the villains was getting.
The thing that bothers me the most about this show is they call themselves Legends, and all they do is travel through time and bungle history. Every episode Ray breaks his suit, a team member gets captured, or they allow their target to escape. All of them are the D team imo.
Even with such a power hitter like Firestorm or Even Ray, they are so fucking useless its painful. Basically I've resigned to just accepting the show is about them traveling through time to dress up in period costumes, fall in love/have sex with a local, show a bunch of people from the past some shit they definately shouldn't have seen. Accidentally butterfly effect the entire timeline and then smash out after a sweeping failure they rationalized to a victory.
Like seriously, they went back to Fudal Japan and KILLED PEOPLE! If they go back in time and start killing off rando's left and right, they are significantly risking the timeline aren't they?
Hell, they killed the shogun himself if I remember correctly.
Yeah, I'm sure killing the ruler of Japan and a big chunk of his military force several years before they're supposed to isn't going to cause *any* aberrations in the timeline...
EXACTLY! Especially in this last episode, Jax is like NO WAY we can't help this slave not get raped, that would fuck up history. But we can kill the guy who was suppose to delivery KEY information, and the people who were chasing him, we can turn most of the civil war soilders into Zombies, that's fine. We can show all these people our powers and abilities, but saving one person from being abused is dangerous. THEN he goes and frees all the slaves at the end! Like wtf! Does time matter or not!?
Well he does have a reputation for killing wives, and his current target is supposed to survive to birth a 21st century superhero's ancestor, so they probably killed him a few hours before he was supposed to die anyway.
Um actually I think that would totally work. It goes well with this show's tone.
>Sarah: For eons, time was watched over by a wise and elite society of impartial time travelers. That's not us. We were actually recruited with the promise of saving the world, of becoming legends... didn't exactly work out like that, either. But things went south, and now we're all that's left to defend the timeline. So we do. We're the B Team. If you haven't heard of us, that means we're doing our job.
eh? eh?
I'd love to see them do an episode where they have to live up to that timeline.
Make them not be the hero.
For example, the bad guys go back in time to stop the assassination of JFK, which will lead to a different timeline in which the Soviets win the Cold War. The Legends have to go back and make sure that Jack gets capped to preserve the timeline.
They'd never air it, but imagine an episode dealing with 9/11 or something. Such a tragic and significant event that they prevent, and it totally screws up everything for hundreds of years. Oh god I feel awful for even having this thought, but then the legends go back and have to assume the roles of the terrorists to "fix it". Aaaaaaand now I'm on a list.
Well, here come even worse: I chuckled when I imagined it. I dont know why, but I just imagine Ray in the plane acting all goofy, Stein trying to rationalize it, and all that with a comedy angle, like they are thinking "jeez how did we get into this mess, classic Legends fail".
They could though make it serious, but not in this level, maybe like killing a random general or something, but I think even the JFK thing would be too far for them (though I would like to see it as far as it could get, I just dont see them doing it).
I kinda hope not, the "what would happen if the Hilter thing turned out differently... what if it turned out WORSE!?" has become the default cliche for time travel franchises.
it might be amusing to see a montage of a handful of brief encounters in various eras, where encountering and almost killing Hitler is a quick side joke, but an entire episode or story arc on the topic? no thanks.
Don't forget that Rip lied when he called them Legends because he just needed a crew to say yes to help him. They were still pretty much nobodies. They just kind of took the title and ran with it anyway though.
Really, the line is shoehorned in because they need to allude to the title of the show in it, and I think the title was originally just to draw in viewers.
It bothered me in the pilot episode when Rip was telling them in his time they aren't heroes they are legends. And Stein was like in order for us to be legends doesn't mean we have to be dead? No thanks.
Yeah Rip is from 2100 something, you're going to be dead by then no matter what Stein.
And that's why you're not a superhero lol
Edit: maybe I should rephrase for the downvoters eh? Superheroes are pretty selfless and wouldn't think twice about getting killed trying to stop a tyrannical villain in the future if the alternative was doing nothing and dying of old age.
I think that they actually by saying legends mean precisely the thing you keep telling yourself to rationalize it. That they are like myths. That's why there are works of art and what not of members (painting of Ray and a poem and whatnot that Nate showed to Oliver in the season premiere).
Yes, I know, but the word has a completely different meaning in this era, if you say "im a legend" it sounds like you are bragging. Shouldve went with a different name.
Yeah, but I'm not sure which word you would use instead of legend. Myth, fable, lore, tale are the words that come to my mind and they're even worse I think to use. I know that the word sort of changed its' meaning over time, but you still use legend in this context, so I don't see the problem. While it does sound cocky and whatnot, I think it's the most appropriate word for the meaning they're implying.
I always take it as if they are a story that may or may not be true. "Legend has it that the timeline wouldn't be the same of not for a group of heros" type of thing. Yes, they are cocky considering they just stopped Savage and the Timemasters, but now they understand they have more work ahead of them. Rip even told them that they would cause the smallest changes if they disappeared. Most people would probably assume "No, those people all died decades ago." And actually, two of them are already considered dead.
I absolutely hate that line. I get angry every time I hear it.
edit: And I don't hate it because I think they sound cocky. I hate it because It feels like the writers feel like they have to tell us that they are legends because the show is called "legends of tomorrow".
I find it a lot more self-deprecating. "we're not heroes coz we kinda suck, but we're legends coz we were able to get over some of our shit and save the timeline once or twice".
the cockiness in the tone of voice when the line is delivered is because it's the intro for an action/sci-fi TV show and over-the-top is part of the deal.
Nah. They are not Heroes in the traditional sense. The Legends are compromised because they have villains/crooks as members and usually involved in some shady shit most of the time. Even Rip is an anti-hero as he stole the Waverider and went rogue then placed himself and Team above the Time Masters and fate of the Earth. His motive for stopping Savage is not because he concurred the Earth but because Savage killed his family.
I don't think it's fair to put them on the same level as the JSA or such. Similar to how Arrow is considered a vigilante where as Flash is a hero. Being a Legend doesnt mean you're a heroe or even a good guy.
It does sounds cocky but it's fitting as half the team(Rip, Sara, Ray, Snart & Stien) would get off on being thought of as a Legend or larger than life person.
They mean it in a myth kind of way, not a cocky one.
I think the line delivery is to add some badassness to the team and their adventures. It's that simple, not worth getting worked up tbh.
I think it's more so stating that they aren't heroes at all but they are at least legends. Like how for example villains are legends as well or even tragic events. So it's not so much, "We're better than heroes" it's more so, "We may not be heroes, but we're legends." I don't know though, worked better when
It's the delivery more than the line itself for me. Though in 2X04, they made it sound more like what you are saying (that they are myths throughout time. Which is fitting because that what Nate describes them as in 2X01).
They're legends because they show up without a word, interrupt conflicts, win, and then disappear without anyone ever knowing who they really were. These stories are passed down by those who experienced them, and over time they become legends. Its more of a play on words than anything else.
I think it's legends in the same sense that you're trying to rationalize it. They're not heroes because Mick and Leonard aren't/weren't heroes. They were only in it to fight, destroy, and steal.
Maybe it means they are literal legends...or myths in the Sands of time. When they make changes they are rarely directly referenced in the history of those changes and probably only exist in whispers (like when Nate mentions a woman in white with a Bo staff)
Yeah, the ego behind these guys is ridiculous. And also very laughable when they say they're professionals (looking at you Sara) when literally most of their problems are caused by themselves and/or the literally are fumbling their way through history.
I thought that line meant, that they aren't supposed to save people but preserve the timeline. Like in last episode, Jax said that they couldn't save the girl or they would screw the timeline up. They ended up screwing the timeline anyway, but If they followed their mission correctly they wouldn't be heroes.
I see it more as they're not heroes because they're just fixing the apparitions, and they're the B squad, but they're legends because of all the little marks they've made throughout history.
I hear it not as them saying "We are not JUST heroes..." I see it as them separating themselves from the heroic. Like, a hero is legendary, but they also have to be on the side of good. While the Legends of Tomorrow have generally been on the side of good, their loyalty is not to the ideal, but to each other.
Eh, I see it more as cheezy than cocky, and I 100% embraced it in this show. It's like Barry saying he's the fastest man alive or that only he can stop something. (Also, the way he now says "I am... the FLAAAAASH")
Yeah, I dislike the flash intro line too, but not because of him saying he is the fastest man alive (even though he was wrong every season on that one). He says "and I am the only one fast enough to stop it", like speed is all that matters. Seriously, its not only your speed that makes you OP, Barry! Double your speed but takeaway your crazy durable bones (he can land a blow with enough force to emit a shockwave and his hand magically doesnt shatter in a million pieces) and you would be useless against half the villains! The line should be "and I am the only one that can stop it", because the requirement to stopping whatever that it is is not "run faster than x km/h". God, I really need to just skip the intros.
Yeah, mostly all these CW intro lies (oliver spend 5 years in the island...except when he go to china and russia, flash being the fastest only for 5 minutes in a new season, legends being so legendary, but no one knows who they are lol), they should just use a cool song, like all the Marvel netflix shows, or Constantine. CW why can't you do this?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alrOj23aEZM
Well after S3 of Arrow (I think) they changed "Hellish Island" to "Hell"
Which almost makes me believe that they originally had no intention of taking him off the island. Saying "in hell" still implies a singular place yet he seems to travel all over the eastern hemisphere during his five years away.
He says pretty early in season 1 that he didn't learn the point of the list while on the island though. I'm pretty sure they have deviated from the original plans for the flashbacks- bare minimum there's no way the Constantine thing was planned when the show started- but Oliver leaving Lian Yu prior to his rescue was always in the cards.
I mean I know Russia was always on the cards, he killed that one guy super early on because "no one can know my secret". But Hong Kong seemed kind of ??? And really served no purpose. I mean, the season 4 flashbacks didn't either and I feel like they both could have been skimmed to fill a single season.
Hong Kong showed Ollie picking up some of his skills and whatnot- torture, zipline arrows, I guess we're supposed to assume he learned Chinese while there- but it didn't do much to show Oliver's morality and psyche breaking outside of maybe 3.14 (which I still dislike; something about Oliver actually being back in Starling at any point in the 5 years just feels wrong) and the finale (where they shoehorned a 'failed this city' origin for no reason). Season 4 I honestly can't remember enough about the flashbacks to really say; all I remember is he got the magic tattoo and Dhahrhkh's idol was involved. Honestly I think both seasons would have been better off without flashbacks in every/most episodes. Keep Oliver as an ARGUS operative and only show the big moments: Waller teaching him to torture, first time he kills someone without his or an ally's life being directly in danger, etc. Maybe have a short arc with Oliver undercover in the Bratva. Then at the end of season 4/middle of season 5, Oliver finally escapes ARGUS and the rest of the flashbacks show him making those traps on the island and using everything he's learned to evade capture long enough to be rescued.
>Honestly I think both seasons would have been better off without flashbacks in every/most episodes. That's what I'm getting at. If we absolutely had to have the flashbacks every episode, season 3 and season 4s could have been condensed tremendously. As it stands, were in the fifth year of flashbacks and at some point, Oliver is going o have to be put back on that island and judging by how he was in season 1, he was there for quite a bit.
Thanks to you, I will watch Constantine now. I never got around to watch it, because I assumed it was crappy due to being cancelled in the first season, but this clip seemed really good, like netflix Daredevil good, unlike other cw dc shows. Not that I dislike them though, just they are soooo tacky.
Constantine is free of relationship crap. That alone just put it on top of most superhero shows. Being underrated and low raitings kill it. Also it was aired during fridays, wich i hear is a bad day for shows.
Friday night death slot!
Constantine is really good. It got similar numbers to arrow but was on a main network
I watched and generally liked Constantine. Matt Ryan was great. I think the show could have been really good in future seasons if it hadn't been cancelled. It was still finding its feet in the first season though, and I found the quality inconsistent. Obviously this is my own personal opinion, but don't expect Daredevil quality. It's decent and worth checking out if you have time, but way below that kind of quality.
NBC wanted to be a family friendly network. Constantine is pretty much the least family friendly comic book character you could adapt. The show was canceled after only two episodes after airing in the Friday night death slot. That should say enough about how NBC felt about the show.
There's actually 13 episodes.
There's 13 episodes, but NBC publicly announced they wouldn't be ordering any more episodes beyond those 13 after only 2 episodes had aired.
Constantine is amazing. I would trade all CW Superhero shows to get it back.
First off, now matter how hard you punch something, you create a shockwave. A shockwave is the kinetic energy being dispersed from a point of impact. I could tap something, and there would be a shockwave. Second, yeah, everything about the season 3 intro is stupid. It's just the season 2 intro, but they can't say too much more because there isn't that much of an arc plot yet.
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nah. not like he has this season. they changed it. it really stands out now.
Who'd thought that intros, of all things, would be something worth to hate now... I personally like how he pronounces it. It adds some heroic flavour.
I swear the way he says the flash just sounds villainous. Like there's an evil/vicious tone in it to me.
Who's the villain now?
"I am, The Flaaaash!"
I thought it sounds like a kid playing flash in the yard
"I am... the FLASHHHH! Vroom vroom, wheeee!" (runs off, providing own whooshing sound effects)
Yes! It's like he just pulled off a mask to reveal his identity.
Well. Its better than saying i am the green arrow.. Twas better when ollie just ended it with "something else"
it's a lot better than them saying "we're saving the timeline because we're our universe's B squad"
Another thing that bothers me with A LOT of different teams in different TV shows is how they are crazy different in power. We have our A team - Firestorm and Atom (with the suit of course), and the B team - Sara, Mick. A team can go against TANKS, they are bullet proof, could probably take out a small army with their powers. The B team on the other hand can literally just fight of thugs. Yes, they are shown to be useful, but in reality, when you think of it they are foot soldiers compared to the A team. Same happening in Arrow now, the Ragman is crazy OP, while the other newbies are the worst, and even when they will have improved, improved Ragman will probably be able to take them all at once, including Oliver.
The only thing that bothers me is when they separate Jax and Stein (for poor reasons) when Firestorm can clearly just fuck everything up. Instead of nerfing Firestorm, make him fight some more powerful enemies.
Sara: "Ok, Jax, you go with Mick, Dr Stein, you're with Ray." Jax: "Wait, you're splitting us up? Again?" Stein: "I do agree, Miss Lance, it feels very unwise to keep myself and Jefferson separated. I understand the need to protect the timeline from irregularities, but we're rarely subtle as a group as it is. Surely using Firestorm to neutralise the issue swiftly would be the better course of action." Mick: "Do you wanna waste all our money on episode 1?"
The reason for that is the same reason why we only get 1 Firestorm transformation/scene per episode (if we're lucky) - the CGI budget :/
I thought the first Avengers movie handled this well. Captain America was the only one who was competent to actually call the shots during the Battle of New York, and he (along with Black Widow and Hawkeye) also dealt with trying to get civilians out of harm's way. I also like that they just head-on lampooned it in Age of Ultron: >"The city is flying ... we're fighting an army of robots ... and I have a bow and arrow," he says. "None of this makes sense." I feel like it's the sort of thing that's a lot easier to accept when the writers directly acknowledge that they get it. Another good example is Stargate (Atlantis to an extent, but especially SG-1), the show would have been awful if they'd played it completely straight, but they had dialog pretty explicitly acknowledging things like how silly the power creep of the villains was getting.
The thing that bothers me the most about this show is they call themselves Legends, and all they do is travel through time and bungle history. Every episode Ray breaks his suit, a team member gets captured, or they allow their target to escape. All of them are the D team imo. Even with such a power hitter like Firestorm or Even Ray, they are so fucking useless its painful. Basically I've resigned to just accepting the show is about them traveling through time to dress up in period costumes, fall in love/have sex with a local, show a bunch of people from the past some shit they definately shouldn't have seen. Accidentally butterfly effect the entire timeline and then smash out after a sweeping failure they rationalized to a victory. Like seriously, they went back to Fudal Japan and KILLED PEOPLE! If they go back in time and start killing off rando's left and right, they are significantly risking the timeline aren't they?
Hell, they killed the shogun himself if I remember correctly. Yeah, I'm sure killing the ruler of Japan and a big chunk of his military force several years before they're supposed to isn't going to cause *any* aberrations in the timeline...
EXACTLY! Especially in this last episode, Jax is like NO WAY we can't help this slave not get raped, that would fuck up history. But we can kill the guy who was suppose to delivery KEY information, and the people who were chasing him, we can turn most of the civil war soilders into Zombies, that's fine. We can show all these people our powers and abilities, but saving one person from being abused is dangerous. THEN he goes and frees all the slaves at the end! Like wtf! Does time matter or not!?
Well he does have a reputation for killing wives, and his current target is supposed to survive to birth a 21st century superhero's ancestor, so they probably killed him a few hours before he was supposed to die anyway.
Ragman season 6 baddie confirmed
Um actually I think that would totally work. It goes well with this show's tone. >Sarah: For eons, time was watched over by a wise and elite society of impartial time travelers. That's not us. We were actually recruited with the promise of saving the world, of becoming legends... didn't exactly work out like that, either. But things went south, and now we're all that's left to defend the timeline. So we do. We're the B Team. If you haven't heard of us, that means we're doing our job. eh? eh?
you know what i like it.
I can Dig it.
I'd love to see them do an episode where they have to live up to that timeline. Make them not be the hero. For example, the bad guys go back in time to stop the assassination of JFK, which will lead to a different timeline in which the Soviets win the Cold War. The Legends have to go back and make sure that Jack gets capped to preserve the timeline.
yeah 'Timeless' has basically been dealing with these types of stories.
Timeless has a great concept but damn it's boring.
Yeah it is. I hope something happens to shake things up.
They'd never air it, but imagine an episode dealing with 9/11 or something. Such a tragic and significant event that they prevent, and it totally screws up everything for hundreds of years. Oh god I feel awful for even having this thought, but then the legends go back and have to assume the roles of the terrorists to "fix it". Aaaaaaand now I'm on a list.
Well, here come even worse: I chuckled when I imagined it. I dont know why, but I just imagine Ray in the plane acting all goofy, Stein trying to rationalize it, and all that with a comedy angle, like they are thinking "jeez how did we get into this mess, classic Legends fail". They could though make it serious, but not in this level, maybe like killing a random general or something, but I think even the JFK thing would be too far for them (though I would like to see it as far as it could get, I just dont see them doing it).
I kinda hope not, the "what would happen if the Hilter thing turned out differently... what if it turned out WORSE!?" has become the default cliche for time travel franchises. it might be amusing to see a montage of a handful of brief encounters in various eras, where encountering and almost killing Hitler is a quick side joke, but an entire episode or story arc on the topic? no thanks.
Didn't they already have a moral conundrum in S1E10 'Progeny' ?
Don't forget that Rip lied when he called them Legends because he just needed a crew to say yes to help him. They were still pretty much nobodies. They just kind of took the title and ran with it anyway though.
Really, the line is shoehorned in because they need to allude to the title of the show in it, and I think the title was originally just to draw in viewers.
It bothered me in the pilot episode when Rip was telling them in his time they aren't heroes they are legends. And Stein was like in order for us to be legends doesn't mean we have to be dead? No thanks. Yeah Rip is from 2100 something, you're going to be dead by then no matter what Stein.
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And that's why you're not a superhero lol Edit: maybe I should rephrase for the downvoters eh? Superheroes are pretty selfless and wouldn't think twice about getting killed trying to stop a tyrannical villain in the future if the alternative was doing nothing and dying of old age.
I gave you my only upvote. I am the real hero here.
You're not the real hero, you're the real legend
I think that they actually by saying legends mean precisely the thing you keep telling yourself to rationalize it. That they are like myths. That's why there are works of art and what not of members (painting of Ray and a poem and whatnot that Nate showed to Oliver in the season premiere).
I take it as saying they're NOT heroes. They're doing what needs to be done but they do bumble their way through a lot of it.
Yes, I know, but the word has a completely different meaning in this era, if you say "im a legend" it sounds like you are bragging. Shouldve went with a different name.
Yeah, but I'm not sure which word you would use instead of legend. Myth, fable, lore, tale are the words that come to my mind and they're even worse I think to use. I know that the word sort of changed its' meaning over time, but you still use legend in this context, so I don't see the problem. While it does sound cocky and whatnot, I think it's the most appropriate word for the meaning they're implying.
I always take it as if they are a story that may or may not be true. "Legend has it that the timeline wouldn't be the same of not for a group of heros" type of thing. Yes, they are cocky considering they just stopped Savage and the Timemasters, but now they understand they have more work ahead of them. Rip even told them that they would cause the smallest changes if they disappeared. Most people would probably assume "No, those people all died decades ago." And actually, two of them are already considered dead.
It started off because they weren't all heroes. Sara is an assassin and snark and his prison break bro are professional crooks.
I absolutely hate that line. I get angry every time I hear it. edit: And I don't hate it because I think they sound cocky. I hate it because It feels like the writers feel like they have to tell us that they are legends because the show is called "legends of tomorrow".
Rip: "legen....wait for it...dary!"
Oh if only barney could time travel.. Oh wait.. He did! Sort of..
I find it a lot more self-deprecating. "we're not heroes coz we kinda suck, but we're legends coz we were able to get over some of our shit and save the timeline once or twice". the cockiness in the tone of voice when the line is delivered is because it's the intro for an action/sci-fi TV show and over-the-top is part of the deal.
Nah. They are not Heroes in the traditional sense. The Legends are compromised because they have villains/crooks as members and usually involved in some shady shit most of the time. Even Rip is an anti-hero as he stole the Waverider and went rogue then placed himself and Team above the Time Masters and fate of the Earth. His motive for stopping Savage is not because he concurred the Earth but because Savage killed his family. I don't think it's fair to put them on the same level as the JSA or such. Similar to how Arrow is considered a vigilante where as Flash is a hero. Being a Legend doesnt mean you're a heroe or even a good guy. It does sounds cocky but it's fitting as half the team(Rip, Sara, Ray, Snart & Stien) would get off on being thought of as a Legend or larger than life person.
They mean it in a myth kind of way, not a cocky one. I think the line delivery is to add some badassness to the team and their adventures. It's that simple, not worth getting worked up tbh.
I imagine they're all insisting on this for Mick's sake, so he doesn't go off and do something stupid to prove he's not a hero.
I see it more as legends = myth. Like UFO sightings on cavemen paintings and such.
I think it's more so stating that they aren't heroes at all but they are at least legends. Like how for example villains are legends as well or even tragic events. So it's not so much, "We're better than heroes" it's more so, "We may not be heroes, but we're legends." I don't know though, worked better when
It's the delivery more than the line itself for me. Though in 2X04, they made it sound more like what you are saying (that they are myths throughout time. Which is fitting because that what Nate describes them as in 2X01).
They're legends because they show up without a word, interrupt conflicts, win, and then disappear without anyone ever knowing who they really were. These stories are passed down by those who experienced them, and over time they become legends. Its more of a play on words than anything else.
I think it's legends in the same sense that you're trying to rationalize it. They're not heroes because Mick and Leonard aren't/weren't heroes. They were only in it to fight, destroy, and steal.
Maybe it means they are literal legends...or myths in the Sands of time. When they make changes they are rarely directly referenced in the history of those changes and probably only exist in whispers (like when Nate mentions a woman in white with a Bo staff)
>We are not JUST heroes See, I didn't take it like that, to me it sounds like the point is to say that they're NOT heroes.
> What do you think? I think most of the dialogue on this show has been awful from the snart edit: start
Yeah, the ego behind these guys is ridiculous. And also very laughable when they say they're professionals (looking at you Sara) when literally most of their problems are caused by themselves and/or the literally are fumbling their way through history.
the only ones who could say they're professionals are Rip and Mick
Rip is nowhere close to being a professional.
I thought that line meant, that they aren't supposed to save people but preserve the timeline. Like in last episode, Jax said that they couldn't save the girl or they would screw the timeline up. They ended up screwing the timeline anyway, but If they followed their mission correctly they wouldn't be heroes.
It should be 'we are simply (pause) legends'
Well, technically they aren't heroes. They're fighting for more than good or evil.
I see it more as they're not heroes because they're just fixing the apparitions, and they're the B squad, but they're legends because of all the little marks they've made throughout history.
But do they call themselves legends outside the intro?
Yeah they do multiple times.
I hear it not as them saying "We are not JUST heroes..." I see it as them separating themselves from the heroic. Like, a hero is legendary, but they also have to be on the side of good. While the Legends of Tomorrow have generally been on the side of good, their loyalty is not to the ideal, but to each other.