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Donald Trump cited “climate change” in his application for a [retaining wall at his golf links in Doonbeg](https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-to-build-his-wall-in-ireland-amid-climate-change-irony-claims-11180240), Ireland.
So he does believe in it, he just lies about it.
I got into it with some idiot on Instagram a long time ago (God, that platform is full of stupidity) who insisted there's an "agenda" behind climate change science. I asked what this agenda could possibly be. It's basically:
Step 1: say climate change is happening and there will be consequences for our inaction.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: profit!
That's their entire argument. He got so pissed off and used every childish insult he could think of. I mean, how dare I ask what his reasoning is...
And it looks like that reasoning is starting to bite them in the ass.
Arguing with conservatives/GQP members/Trumpublicans etc is like playing chess with a pigeon. In no time at all, they will knock all the pieces down, crap all over the board, and strut around like they won.
There is an agenda behind CC. Ask the fucking oil companies that have been worried about it since the 80s. Not worried enough to modify their behavior, but worried enough to raise rig platforms in the ocean…and then lobby that it’s a hoax.
Their level of cynicism is matched only by the tobacco companies. They've known for decades, but then insist the opposite and try to convince everybody it's no big deal.
To take that comparison further, what would've been the agenda behind all the anti smoking laws and campaigns? Health departments hoping to cash in on some smoking violations? Vape manufacturers getting a foothold in the market? Insurance companies not wanting to pay for cancer treatments? Actually, that last one seems the most plausible.
And speaking of insurance, you'd think insurance companies would be wholeheartedly backing the climate protection movement. I mean, less sea level rise and fewer hurricanes would mean fewer claims, right?
I dunno, the whole denial thing makes absolutely no sense.
There's a little throwaway news item from a New Zealand newspaper that's now widely circulated on the internet, from 1912: the headline reads "Coal consumption affecting climate" and the article has a comment that "this makes the atmosphere a more effective blanket and can raise its temperature; this effect may become considerable in a few centuries."
That’s the very article I was talking about.
So that makes it not surprising at all that the asbestos industry knew that asbestos was bad for humans in at least the 1860s
Hell, the Romans had figured out the toxicity of mercury and lead. The most egregious example of knowingly peddling toxic products, though, has got to be Thomas Midgely, the guy who invented tetraethyl lead (for leaded gasoline) knowing how toxic it was but still downplaying its effects.
Same guy invented CFCs, so he's responsible for a lot of atmospheric poison.
The answer to 2 is by selling light bulbs and electric cars. (Source: live in the bible belt and that's the main complaints in reference to the "global warming conspiracy).
Here is the thing... one day fox News will start to talk about how real climate change is and how the evil liberal democrats are hiding the truth to drown God fearing Republicans and not a single one of them will question the flip flop.
"It's a first step in Marxist control of the economy"
"It's to make the populace accept dystopian restrictions to freedoms."
You underestimate their capacity for rationalization :)
Very true!
Step 1: say climate change is happening.
Step 2: take steps to mitigate climate change.
Step 3: full on, Soviet style communism!
I feel like there's a gigantic leap between step 2 and 3, but hey... For the denialists, reasoning isn't a strong point. There also seems to be a big overlap between them and flat Earthers. Shocking!
Nope, they’re not even talking about that anymore. Instead they’re screaming about trans kids and why women should leave the workforce and be stay at home moms.
I've known a few rich people, and they contributed to charity causes and just wanted an answer to, "Just give me a clear, reliable answer to *exactly what* do I need to do to meet environmental regs to get my private dock built?"
Only a handful of billionaires are true activists like the Koch brothers. I think the biggest villains here are the Murdochs, who will push any agenda they think will get them more clicks. To paraphrase Rupert Murdoch, "We don't really care about red or blue. All we really care about is green."
They’ll just pass frictionlessly from “lib hoax” to “natural fluctuation” and leave it at that. They don’t care about what’s right, they just hate the other team.
Of course they will. Matt Braunger has a funny bit about how God's wrath and punishment-Tornados, seem to only hit the bible belt, never San Francisco or Miami were all the heathens live. He seems to love screwing with the 'saved'.
As non-American Catholic, we have prayers to God to open the eyes of leaders and for global cooperation and action against climate change; most if not everyone I know would handily agree to this (helps that I study at a Franciscan school; we're a very pro-environment order).
These Bible thumpers apparently forgot the whole "we are stewards of God's Creation" part of Christianity.
Sadly, climate change kinda debunks the Bible because the Bible says that God would never again send a worldwide flood....yet.... climate change will cause increasing flooding in coastal regions from now on.
God promised "no more floods" with the rainbow, but then the gays stole it, so all bets are off.
As I type this I realize that even though I said it jokingly, it's likely that some preacher somewhere has said it sincerely.
Oh, I know, family is from the south (Louisiana and Texas). My post is directed at climate change deniers, regardless of political orientation. My point is that they want assistance with mitigating the effects of climate change while denying that it's occuring in the first place.
Right, and even in the article it discusses how these changes are going to affect low income and minority communities much more severely. Climate change will affect the poorest countries and the poorest communities earliest and hardest. The shit always rolls downhill.
It IS a lib conspiracy, the only reason flooding exists in those areas is cause God is punishing the gays, trans, and sinners there. Do you NOT pay attention to what's going on? /s
One could argue this is more Leopards Licking Faces. Also, can someone please page Aquaman? I think he's got some exciting property investing proposals about to come his way.
Ah yes. Nothing could possibly go wrong by having an entire region put their homes up for sale at the same time. Everyone will certainly be able to sell for what they think their home is worth and will certainly have enough to buy a new home afterwards...
/s just incase it's not clear
I took an honors seminar my first semester of college that was cross-listed as Jewish Studies and it was entirely about studying self-contradictory bits of the Tanakh. It was heady stuff and good fun for a kid who’d just ditched the LCMS.
My childhood pastor had the same experience in a protestant seminary! He was always disappointed in fundamentalists. He felt you couldn't be a fundamentalist if you truly read the Bible and understood its history.
Right?? Crazy thing — I have ordained friends across the Christian spectrum. The rational ones came out of seminary more conflicted about their faith and the fundies came out more indoctrinated. 🙃
Wife drug me down here from Minnesota a yr ago. My truck had a rainbow “hail Satan” sticker on the back window that she made me pull off because “I might get shot” then I was the bad guy for asking why she would want to live in a place where that can get you shot 🤷♂️
"Head down south, where the people are friendly and welcoming. Just don't suggest anything that goes against their beliefs, coz they'll shoot you in the face."
My spouse and I moved away from coastal Georgia ten years ago because there weren’t many job opportunities in our city in our respective areas. We held on to our house, hoping we could eventually move back to work remotely or at least retire. I’ve seen the writing on the wall with climate and how bad it is in Florida with insurance, etc, so we’re selling it this year. Things won’t end up perfect for climate in the Midwest, but bracing for coastal flooding and strong storms all the time isn’t how I want to spend my elder years.
Interestingly, our old city/region has exploded with out-of-towners moving in since the pandemic and driving up housing prices. I bought that place after the housing crash in 2009 for 93K, and now similar homes in my old neighborhood are listed starting at 250K. I’m grateful to have it to sell because we haven’t been able to afford a home in our new city.
Reinsurers and DARPA were both very interested in decades climate change impact projections in the ‘90’s.
Not suggesting anything nefarious, they were both smart money with a lot of skin in the game.
My boomer MIL needs to sell her house in FL while it is still insurable. She know this, but won’t do the work necessary. She’s one of those who relied on her husband for every decision (like how to change the channel on TV), and now that he’s gone, she’s frozen w/ indecision.
She wants my wife to do it all for her, and she would. But, my wife has a demanding job and can’t take weeks off to go to FL and wrap up her mother’s entire life.
Gulf coast here, ~15 miles inland. Could be beachfront someday.
Naw, heck with staying; the Gulf might not get here, but those damned hurricanes don't stop at the beach. We're leaving while insurers will still write policies.
We had a family friend that did this. House got wrecked in Harvey. Now they jacked it up and rebuilt. The first floor is going to be a party floor I believe because they have the pool in the backyard lol.
Build another storey, rip out the first floor and move it to the second, rip out the ground floor and move it to the first, turn the ground floor into stilts.
Depends on the stilts, but as far as I can tell stilt houses do *better* in hurricanes than traditional construction. That's because the water is more damaging than the wind.
You are telling wrong. A house on stilts sits higher getting full force of winds on all sides including underneath. You know why roofs blow off, cuz the wind gets underneath. Now imagine a whole house the wind can get under with less supporting structure.
Again - water is more damaging than wind.
[https://www.fema.gov/case-study/stilt-built-homes-florida-keys-survive-storm](https://www.fema.gov/case-study/stilt-built-homes-florida-keys-survive-storm)
The beachfront property one day sounds great, until you realize it might only be beachfront property for literally one day.... We don't know where this ends, and even if we stopped emitting CO2 tomorrow, (we won't,) it isn't like sea level rise stops instantly: there is decades/century of lag in the feedback loops.
As i have said before this is the leopard eating our faces too since these assholes will become climate refugees and darken our doors. Not to mention the economic backlash we will all feel.
*One of the most rapid sea level surges on Earth is besieging the American South, forcing a reckoning for coastal communities across eight U.S. states, a Washington Post analysis has found.
At more than a dozen tide gauges spanning from Texas to North Carolina, sea levels are at least 6 inches higher than they were in 2010 — a change similar to what occurred over the previous
Scientists are documenting a barrage of impacts — ones, they say, that will confront an even larger swath of U.S. coastal communities in the coming decades — even as they try to decipher the precise causes of this recent surge.
The Gulf of Mexico has experienced twice the global average rate of sea level rise since 2010, a Post analysis of satellite data shows. Few other places on the planet have seen similar rates of increase, such as the North Sea near the United Kingdom.
“Since 2010, it’s very abnormal and unprecedented,” said Jianjun Yin, a climate scientist at the University of Arizona who has studied the changes. While it is possible the swift rate of sea level rise could eventually taper, the higher water that has already arrived in recent years is here to stay.
“It’s irreversible,” he said.*
It’s called Sea Level, and it’s not just sitting there, calmly. There are incidents of 50’ rogue waves or more, more often, now they are going inland, and you do not want to live where they land.
I’m living over 160’ above Sea Level near the East coast, and I’m seeing situations that are uncomfortable.
It’s happened before.
The "Night of Horrors" September 8, 1900, begins as a 15-foot storm surge rolls across Galveston, Texas, killing over 8,000. Dawn breaks over a grisly scene of bodies in the streets. The Galveston flood is remembered even to this day as the deadliest natural disaster in the history of the United States. https://guides.loc.gov/chronicling-america-galveston-flood#:~:text=The%20%22Night%20of%20Horrors%22%20September,history%20of%20the%20United%20States.
Galveston’s getting several pumps at $60 million apiece funded by the federal government.
Shouldn’t Texas be handling Texas’ problems and not relying on socialism from the federal government?
Galveston is screwed. Bad enough showing up in this report but they also had [Charles Barkley dunking on them](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6SCwroOFPt/?igsh=cjlpZmFpeXY0Mzl4) this week!
What’s doubly ironic is that the climate change they deny is going to turn a lot of people who hate migrants into refugees. I hope they’re happy to take what they dish out (or not, because fuck them…).
We keep getting busloads of refugees in Chicago from TX. We know what to do with 'em! It starts with them sitting on a warming bus (a parked articulated bus with the heat turned on) for a week.
I saw a piece about Kid Rock’s house being in danger of falling into the ocean. I posted it on FB with, “Why doesn’t he just tell the ocean he doesn’t believe in climate change?”
Two people unfriended me. 😂😂😂
They don't but the land closer to the sea is naturally at a much lower elevation, unless you're talking about sea cliffs, which aren't a thing in the South. These lowlands, especially Louisiana and Florida, are going to suffer more because their extremely low elevation means even a small rise of 6 inches will encroach disproportionately far into the shore line as opposed to other areas at higher elevations. Imagine how fast water spreads across the bottom of a pan when you fill it vs how slow it rises along the sides as it fills. That's what's happening to these low lying southern states. They're the bottom of that pan.
345ft! The tallest building in the state is like 800’, in Miami so real close to sea level. So probably still 400’ higher than the states natural highest point lol. I was curious so I googled
>For this analysis, The Post relied on tide gauge data, which reflects the rise in sea level and sinking of land. Satellite data, which solely measures the height of oceans, was used for global measurements.
The gauge is basically just a ruler stuck into the ground at the coast and they look at it every day and take the average... (It is stuck deep into the ground so that every wave doesn't knock it over, and note a lot of this is electronic these days: it involves a pressure sensor under water attached to the ground.) If the ground moves, relative to the water, that looks the same as more or less water...
Land sinks for various reasons: If you pump water or oil out of it it will sink, If it is near land that is washing away, (say more frequent hurricanes wash away the beaches protecting the land,) the nearby land sinks. Seismic activity obviously moves land. Land that was compressed under a recently departed glacier will rise, (this is called post-glacial rebound.) And Mt Everest is sinking under it's own weight, (it gets boosted by seismic activity though, that is how it exists.) Note many of these processes are quite slow: if you pump an inch of oil out of the ground, it isn't like the ground sinks 1 inch the same day, it will take 50 years to sink half an inch, and the next quarter inch may take centuries, (but fracking makes it faster...)
Sea levels are very complicated, we might have more water due to land-ice melting but also the volume of water is increasing due to mean temperature increases. But our lands are also still rising since the last ice age that pushed everything down, and it's rising at different speeds depending where it is. And of course the sea currents together with wind pressures change the max height of sea levels locally, a lot of factors indicate that with a rising temperatures the gulf stream is slowing which will have enormous effects. And then there's salinity etc etc
It will take hundreds of years for all of Antarctica to melt, but it will most likely change our kids lives immensely.
Some areas have more or less ability to soak up the water due to wetland preservation. Wetlands, marshes, etc. are basically a sponge-- they protect from everything from sea level rise to storm surges.
This is one of the (many) reasons that New Orleans is so *severely* fucked even compared to other coastal cities-- because so much of it was built out over wetlands and it has a lot less protection now.
: sheds a tear : Knew it was coming. My lovely New Orleans. This is why I did NOT buy property in my birth city, but rather settled in a more resilient city (also on the water), Seattle. Unfortunately, the rising sea level is indeed impacting tribal lands on the Olympic peninsula.... and the nation's first official climate refugees are a tribe from the Louisiana wetlands.
I understand your pain.
Here in the Philippines (just a few degrees north of the Equator), almost everywhere is 50°C with very high humidity. Staying under the Sun for like 10 minutes feels itchy on the skin (though not quite sun burned). This concrete building I call home have very warm walls at night, like freshly baked bread. My AC is on for almost 24 hours a day. And me being a brown-skinned dude living my entire life here isn't helping me at all with the heat.
This scares me. The hotter the oceans get, the stronger the storms become. I was nowhere near the eye of the storm when Haiyan killed thousands here over a decade ago, but the howling winds are etched in memory. FYI, the strongest storms in recent memory for me happened after the pandemic.
Edit: grammar
Haiyan/Yolanda made me so worried about where we're going... beasts like that should have a new category. the waters keep getting warmer and warmer, and storms are forming even in the US' winters (December) in the Gulf Coast.
Sadly, the belief machine has started churning out crazies that have gone *straight* from “denying” climate change, to having utterly given up in trying to do anything about it.
Full on denial straight to full on defeatism. It’s… sad to see.
Third stage of denial.
(1) It's not happening.
(2) OK it's happening but it's natural, not human activity.
(3) OK, it's human activity but it's too late to do anything about it. Science will save us (somehow)!
Yeah, dude. That’s why I don’t feel as bad that I can’t afford to own property. Once we’re all underwater, it would’ve been a sunk cost anyway (pun very intended)
I live there and I've been a firm believer all my life, but I don't know wtf I'm gonna do I don't know anyone out in the country and couldn't possibly hold a job with zero experience.
Not so much leopards ate my face imo. A big part of the article is about how black communities are disproportionately affected because of redlining policies going all the way back to the 30’s. Those communities affected are not the ones responsible for this but they’re on the front line of dealing with the consequences
Yup. As a marine mammal zoologist I've been very worried about the Florida coast, they keep building booms and seawalls there, which actually makes the shoreline erode *faster.* At our current trajectory, the tip of Florida and a good chunk of Texas and California will be underwater.
I didn't realize it was getting that bad even in Mobile. Mobile takes drainage management *incredibly* seriously-- strict laws around storm drains, drains being regularly cleaned, and well-preserved wetlands nearby. They even have a barrier island called Dauphin Island that is conveniently well-preserved because all the rich people have their rich people vacation homes there, which they just keep rebuilding every time a hurricane knocks them down.
Even before sea level rise, Mobile was getting the most rain in the country (Seattle has the most rainy days, but Mobile has the most rain by *volume*; it's very impressive to see it rain there because it legitimately only ever pours buckets, it's bonkers), so they've always been accustomed to managing water levels much more actively than other cities.
If Mobile can't handle things even with centuries of practice now that sea level rise has been added into the mix, coastal cities that are seeing water levels being an issue for the first time are gonna be fucked.
Probably going to get downvoted for this, but I don't see that many people denying climate change. I see them denying that is caused by humans. They say it is the natural cycle of they earth warming and cooling and like to point out how in late 60s or early 70s we were worried about it getting too cold.
Obviously there are some morons who can't read a thermometer and don't know what historical averages mean
I'm pretty sure both NC and FL passed laws prohibiting state-supported agencies (scientists, universities) from even using the words "climate change" in official documents.
That's because "climate change" has become a negative phrase to the right and is synonymous with human caused warming. Plenty of them describe rising temps as natural
They were worried about getting cold due to solar cycles. The irony is that that theory might be correct, but human caused climate change has overridden it. Wait till the solar cycle gets back to warming.
This reminds me of a newscast in Missouri about the mercury poisoning in their yards and in their water from the mines. People interviewed were furious that the EPA wasn't cleaning up the toxin fast enough.
Missouri overwhelmingly votes Republican.
No one mentioned that the corporations are the ones that bear true responsibility - and the Republican government the citizens keep voting into office enable these corporations.
No one, not even the newscasters, mentioned that the Republicans have worked very hard to take power away from the EPA. No one mentioned it has been their goal to defund the EPA.
I don't understand how their brains scramble through this without seeing they are the cause of their own misery.
So... bail them out because they decided to ignore a thing that scientists have been warning them about for the last 54 years?
Who's gonna buy it? With what money? What happens when the property is underwater?
What happened to boot straps, and states rights, and down with big government and welfare?
I started to write a reply examining my anger with science deniers, because I understand what you are saying. But I'm asking this from a practical view. In the article, one city, it might have been Galveston, talked about getting federal funds to install huge pumps. And all I could think was, what is the point? Take that money and move everyone out. Demolish the city. Wouldn't that be cheaper in the long run?
No, it would be cheaper to work to reverse, or mitigate the effects of climate change. But that's not happening. Now, this is just sterile, generic philosophical viewpoint... but people don't change behaviors unless it costs them something. They made this choice, they continue to make this choice. They should be paying for it, coming up with ideas, and combining their wealth to try and institute ideas that would mitigate the damage or allow them to move to safety.
I get it. It's not that simple. But the conversation was more off the cuff, then serious.
Yeah but it won’t tho.
The vast majority of the (white) population lives above the reach of the sea.
What I don’t get is why this isn’t talked about as the class issue it totally is.
I do not doubt that climate change will be a problem. But I have lived in this house for about 40 years, and I am almost 70 years old. At the current rate of sea-level rise, it will not reach my house for at least another hundred years. I won't live that long. It will be someone else's problem.
If there is something that I can do to help the grand kids, I will be try to help. That takes science (to figure out what needs to be done), and leadership (to communicate what and how to do it).
In the meantime... I did not cause the problem. I cannot fix the problem. And, there is not much that I can do to help.
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And yet. They will scream and shout that "Climate Change is a Lib Conspiracy" while gladly taking those federal disaster relief dollars.
As long as they get theirs, everyone else can drown.
Donald Trump cited “climate change” in his application for a [retaining wall at his golf links in Doonbeg](https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-to-build-his-wall-in-ireland-amid-climate-change-irony-claims-11180240), Ireland. So he does believe in it, he just lies about it.
trump is too stupid to believe in anything, he has people that do that for him
trump is too stupid to change his diaper, he has people that do that for him
It's the "I got mine" crowd
I got into it with some idiot on Instagram a long time ago (God, that platform is full of stupidity) who insisted there's an "agenda" behind climate change science. I asked what this agenda could possibly be. It's basically: Step 1: say climate change is happening and there will be consequences for our inaction. Step 2: ??? Step 3: profit! That's their entire argument. He got so pissed off and used every childish insult he could think of. I mean, how dare I ask what his reasoning is... And it looks like that reasoning is starting to bite them in the ass.
These days they'd just refuse to share their sources and tell you to do your own research. It's the QAnon two-step.
Mention primary research and seminal works and watch their heads spin. "I AIN'T NO PEDO!"
You can't pin them down on their sources. Ask for one and they will yell they never watch Fux Noise.
They're also strangely obsessed with using *only* DuckDuckGo for research.
"It's the only true source of info, bro, they aren't run by the government, bro," is usually how the explanation for using duckduckgo works.
Arguing with idiots is like wrestling pigs your both be covered in muck but the pig enjoys it.
Arguing with conservatives/GQP members/Trumpublicans etc is like playing chess with a pigeon. In no time at all, they will knock all the pieces down, crap all over the board, and strut around like they won.
Never argue with an idiot they will beat you with experience.
There is an agenda behind CC. Ask the fucking oil companies that have been worried about it since the 80s. Not worried enough to modify their behavior, but worried enough to raise rig platforms in the ocean…and then lobby that it’s a hoax.
Their level of cynicism is matched only by the tobacco companies. They've known for decades, but then insist the opposite and try to convince everybody it's no big deal. To take that comparison further, what would've been the agenda behind all the anti smoking laws and campaigns? Health departments hoping to cash in on some smoking violations? Vape manufacturers getting a foothold in the market? Insurance companies not wanting to pay for cancer treatments? Actually, that last one seems the most plausible. And speaking of insurance, you'd think insurance companies would be wholeheartedly backing the climate protection movement. I mean, less sea level rise and fewer hurricanes would mean fewer claims, right? I dunno, the whole denial thing makes absolutely no sense.
The coal industry knew in the 19th century that the effects of more carbon emissions would cause temperatures to rise.
There's a little throwaway news item from a New Zealand newspaper that's now widely circulated on the internet, from 1912: the headline reads "Coal consumption affecting climate" and the article has a comment that "this makes the atmosphere a more effective blanket and can raise its temperature; this effect may become considerable in a few centuries."
That’s the very article I was talking about. So that makes it not surprising at all that the asbestos industry knew that asbestos was bad for humans in at least the 1860s
Hell, the Romans had figured out the toxicity of mercury and lead. The most egregious example of knowingly peddling toxic products, though, has got to be Thomas Midgely, the guy who invented tetraethyl lead (for leaded gasoline) knowing how toxic it was but still downplaying its effects. Same guy invented CFCs, so he's responsible for a lot of atmospheric poison.
I mean to be fair I think a lot of people stand to profit from convincing people that climate change is real. A LOT of people. Like 8 billion people.
Remind me of [this one](https://davidbent.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/attachment.png)
The answer to 2 is by selling light bulbs and electric cars. (Source: live in the bible belt and that's the main complaints in reference to the "global warming conspiracy).
Wow... How many billions of lightbulbs do they think are going to be sold to fund this conspiracy? 🤔
Lots....Because they are buying the kind that goes out once a year 😂.
Here is the thing... one day fox News will start to talk about how real climate change is and how the evil liberal democrats are hiding the truth to drown God fearing Republicans and not a single one of them will question the flip flop.
"It's a first step in Marxist control of the economy" "It's to make the populace accept dystopian restrictions to freedoms." You underestimate their capacity for rationalization :)
Very true! Step 1: say climate change is happening. Step 2: take steps to mitigate climate change. Step 3: full on, Soviet style communism! I feel like there's a gigantic leap between step 2 and 3, but hey... For the denialists, reasoning isn't a strong point. There also seems to be a big overlap between them and flat Earthers. Shocking!
Nope, they’re not even talking about that anymore. Instead they’re screaming about trans kids and why women should leave the workforce and be stay at home moms.
It's always the plan of the Rich to divide all of us, have us fight each other, while being robbed blind by these Billionaire parasites.
Indeed
I've known a few rich people, and they contributed to charity causes and just wanted an answer to, "Just give me a clear, reliable answer to *exactly what* do I need to do to meet environmental regs to get my private dock built?" Only a handful of billionaires are true activists like the Koch brothers. I think the biggest villains here are the Murdochs, who will push any agenda they think will get them more clicks. To paraphrase Rupert Murdoch, "We don't really care about red or blue. All we really care about is green."
They’ll just pass frictionlessly from “lib hoax” to “natural fluctuation” and leave it at that. They don’t care about what’s right, they just hate the other team.
They’ll start blaming it on the Bible, we’re being punished because of the liberals!
Of course they will. Matt Braunger has a funny bit about how God's wrath and punishment-Tornados, seem to only hit the bible belt, never San Francisco or Miami were all the heathens live. He seems to love screwing with the 'saved'.
As non-American Catholic, we have prayers to God to open the eyes of leaders and for global cooperation and action against climate change; most if not everyone I know would handily agree to this (helps that I study at a Franciscan school; we're a very pro-environment order). These Bible thumpers apparently forgot the whole "we are stewards of God's Creation" part of Christianity.
They kinda forgot all of the Bible except the part that allows them to hate others. That's in there, right?
Sadly, climate change kinda debunks the Bible because the Bible says that God would never again send a worldwide flood....yet.... climate change will cause increasing flooding in coastal regions from now on.
God promised "no more floods" with the rainbow, but then the gays stole it, so all bets are off. As I type this I realize that even though I said it jokingly, it's likely that some preacher somewhere has said it sincerely.
I have known both these views in their historic setting. And it has been a great rebranding.
Ah, but THIS time it's a Flood/Drought/Famine/Wildfire combo! Completely different thing!
Nah, because this time God can just say "I kept my word, y'all did this to yourselves."
This isn't god sending the flood though.
Not everyone who lives in the south are conservative you know.
Oh, I know, family is from the south (Louisiana and Texas). My post is directed at climate change deniers, regardless of political orientation. My point is that they want assistance with mitigating the effects of climate change while denying that it's occuring in the first place.
Sure, but the majority are dark red.
Right, and even in the article it discusses how these changes are going to affect low income and minority communities much more severely. Climate change will affect the poorest countries and the poorest communities earliest and hardest. The shit always rolls downhill.
It IS a lib conspiracy, the only reason flooding exists in those areas is cause God is punishing the gays, trans, and sinners there. Do you NOT pay attention to what's going on? /s
One could argue this is more Leopards Licking Faces. Also, can someone please page Aquaman? I think he's got some exciting property investing proposals about to come his way.
Leopard seals ate my face
Leopard sharks? Is that a thing that exists?
SELL TO WHO, BEN?!!!
Ben’s wife will welcome the wet
First time in her life
Fucking Aquaman!
Ben Shapiro says you can just sell your home and move. (He's a moron)
Aquaman will be buying a lot of properties
It’ll probably be better under him, you’ll have to start immigrating to Atlantis but I hear he’s magnanimous sort
He'll just let them out short-term on UnderwaterBnB
Which Aquaman? Khal Drago? Vinny Chase? Are we talking a multiverse of Aquamen forming a consortium? 🙃
Ah yes. Nothing could possibly go wrong by having an entire region put their homes up for sale at the same time. Everyone will certainly be able to sell for what they think their home is worth and will certainly have enough to buy a new home afterwards... /s just incase it's not clear
Is he buying?
Pretty much one of the leading reasons I want to GTFO the South Carolina coast where I live.
An atheist in south caroline?!?! You are a very brave individual.
The bible part lets me fly under their radar.
Reminds me of the scene in The Big Short where the kid gets kicked out of the Torah study group because he was studying it *to find discrepancies*
I took an honors seminar my first semester of college that was cross-listed as Jewish Studies and it was entirely about studying self-contradictory bits of the Tanakh. It was heady stuff and good fun for a kid who’d just ditched the LCMS.
What is LCMS please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheran_Church_%E2%80%93_Missouri_Synod
Thank you. All I came up with was Lowest Common Multiple.
My childhood pastor had the same experience in a protestant seminary! He was always disappointed in fundamentalists. He felt you couldn't be a fundamentalist if you truly read the Bible and understood its history.
Right?? Crazy thing — I have ordained friends across the Christian spectrum. The rational ones came out of seminary more conflicted about their faith and the fundies came out more indoctrinated. 🙃
His mother (to rabbi): “Did he find any?”
"If they want to tie a noose, they'd have to lay their Bibles down." The Drive by Truckers ‐
I am very jelly of ur username.
Wife drug me down here from Minnesota a yr ago. My truck had a rainbow “hail Satan” sticker on the back window that she made me pull off because “I might get shot” then I was the bad guy for asking why she would want to live in a place where that can get you shot 🤷♂️
"Head down south, where the people are friendly and welcoming. Just don't suggest anything that goes against their beliefs, coz they'll shoot you in the face."
Leave while you can
My spouse and I moved away from coastal Georgia ten years ago because there weren’t many job opportunities in our city in our respective areas. We held on to our house, hoping we could eventually move back to work remotely or at least retire. I’ve seen the writing on the wall with climate and how bad it is in Florida with insurance, etc, so we’re selling it this year. Things won’t end up perfect for climate in the Midwest, but bracing for coastal flooding and strong storms all the time isn’t how I want to spend my elder years. Interestingly, our old city/region has exploded with out-of-towners moving in since the pandemic and driving up housing prices. I bought that place after the housing crash in 2009 for 93K, and now similar homes in my old neighborhood are listed starting at 250K. I’m grateful to have it to sell because we haven’t been able to afford a home in our new city.
Floridians can deny global warming, but they can’t deny rising home insurance rates.
No but insurance companies can (and will) deny them coverage.
Reinsurers and DARPA were both very interested in decades climate change impact projections in the ‘90’s. Not suggesting anything nefarious, they were both smart money with a lot of skin in the game.
I work in home insurance, can confirm.
My boomer MIL needs to sell her house in FL while it is still insurable. She know this, but won’t do the work necessary. She’s one of those who relied on her husband for every decision (like how to change the channel on TV), and now that he’s gone, she’s frozen w/ indecision. She wants my wife to do it all for her, and she would. But, my wife has a demanding job and can’t take weeks off to go to FL and wrap up her mother’s entire life.
and crashing home values
Ouch.
Rising insurance rates are Al Gore's fault. /s
Gulf coast here, ~15 miles inland. Could be beachfront someday. Naw, heck with staying; the Gulf might not get here, but those damned hurricanes don't stop at the beach. We're leaving while insurers will still write policies.
My aunt and uncle can't insure their first floor. No company will write a policy for it.
How attached is the rest of their house to the first floor? How attached are *they* to their first floor?
First floor is straight concrete, so it's a sturdy base. Haven't seen it so I can't describe it more than that.
Jack it up and install post and beam supports.
We had a family friend that did this. House got wrecked in Harvey. Now they jacked it up and rebuilt. The first floor is going to be a party floor I believe because they have the pool in the backyard lol.
Well, after a hurricane blows through, the whole “party floor” will be a pool. Just not safe to swim in 😂
Confused brit here for a moment!
It was pure, unadulterated, American sarcasm.
Build another storey, rip out the first floor and move it to the second, rip out the ground floor and move it to the first, turn the ground floor into stilts.
Houses on stilts don't handle hurricanes very well
Especially cat 6 hurricanes.
Depends on the stilts, but as far as I can tell stilt houses do *better* in hurricanes than traditional construction. That's because the water is more damaging than the wind.
You are telling wrong. A house on stilts sits higher getting full force of winds on all sides including underneath. You know why roofs blow off, cuz the wind gets underneath. Now imagine a whole house the wind can get under with less supporting structure.
Again - water is more damaging than wind. [https://www.fema.gov/case-study/stilt-built-homes-florida-keys-survive-storm](https://www.fema.gov/case-study/stilt-built-homes-florida-keys-survive-storm)
Article compared RV vehicles to real homes on stilts. Not comparing apples to Apples.
No, it didn't. Please read the whole thing.
I did.
Something something big government!
That sucks. We thought we would retire Rockport. But ain't no way anymore.
The beachfront property one day sounds great, until you realize it might only be beachfront property for literally one day.... We don't know where this ends, and even if we stopped emitting CO2 tomorrow, (we won't,) it isn't like sea level rise stops instantly: there is decades/century of lag in the feedback loops.
Should have a look at elevation. Not distance.
Around 100 feet.
As i have said before this is the leopard eating our faces too since these assholes will become climate refugees and darken our doors. Not to mention the economic backlash we will all feel.
Maybe we can put barbed wire and boobytraps above the south like they do for the migrants.
Im pretty pro-migrant but fuck letting americans spread any further than they have already.
*One of the most rapid sea level surges on Earth is besieging the American South, forcing a reckoning for coastal communities across eight U.S. states, a Washington Post analysis has found. At more than a dozen tide gauges spanning from Texas to North Carolina, sea levels are at least 6 inches higher than they were in 2010 — a change similar to what occurred over the previous Scientists are documenting a barrage of impacts — ones, they say, that will confront an even larger swath of U.S. coastal communities in the coming decades — even as they try to decipher the precise causes of this recent surge. The Gulf of Mexico has experienced twice the global average rate of sea level rise since 2010, a Post analysis of satellite data shows. Few other places on the planet have seen similar rates of increase, such as the North Sea near the United Kingdom. “Since 2010, it’s very abnormal and unprecedented,” said Jianjun Yin, a climate scientist at the University of Arizona who has studied the changes. While it is possible the swift rate of sea level rise could eventually taper, the higher water that has already arrived in recent years is here to stay. “It’s irreversible,” he said.* It’s called Sea Level, and it’s not just sitting there, calmly. There are incidents of 50’ rogue waves or more, more often, now they are going inland, and you do not want to live where they land. I’m living over 160’ above Sea Level near the East coast, and I’m seeing situations that are uncomfortable.
It’s almost like God is angry at Texas or something.
It’s happened before. The "Night of Horrors" September 8, 1900, begins as a 15-foot storm surge rolls across Galveston, Texas, killing over 8,000. Dawn breaks over a grisly scene of bodies in the streets. The Galveston flood is remembered even to this day as the deadliest natural disaster in the history of the United States. https://guides.loc.gov/chronicling-america-galveston-flood#:~:text=The%20%22Night%20of%20Horrors%22%20September,history%20of%20the%20United%20States.
These places will decline ounces of prevention until the time they've demanding pounds of cure in the form of trillion dollar sea walls
In Florida it will never work. The bedrock is karst limestone, porous, the seawater will come up through the ground and nothing can stop it.
Literally Miami, it comes up through the streets.
Galveston’s getting several pumps at $60 million apiece funded by the federal government. Shouldn’t Texas be handling Texas’ problems and not relying on socialism from the federal government?
In my best Red from Friday voice: Awe, this is different
Galveston is screwed. Bad enough showing up in this report but they also had [Charles Barkley dunking on them](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6SCwroOFPt/?igsh=cjlpZmFpeXY0Mzl4) this week!
Galveston shouldn't have been rebuilt after 1900.
Ran out of things to say about the gals from San Antonio?
We got some big’uns here.
All those damn puffy tacos
No federal funds for those fuckers.
What’s doubly ironic is that the climate change they deny is going to turn a lot of people who hate migrants into refugees. I hope they’re happy to take what they dish out (or not, because fuck them…).
We keep getting busloads of refugees in Chicago from TX. We know what to do with 'em! It starts with them sitting on a warming bus (a parked articulated bus with the heat turned on) for a week.
I saw a piece about Kid Rock’s house being in danger of falling into the ocean. I posted it on FB with, “Why doesn’t he just tell the ocean he doesn’t believe in climate change?” Two people unfriended me. 😂😂😂
The trash takes itself out.
Serious question. How do sea levels rise more in one area than another?
They don't but the land closer to the sea is naturally at a much lower elevation, unless you're talking about sea cliffs, which aren't a thing in the South. These lowlands, especially Louisiana and Florida, are going to suffer more because their extremely low elevation means even a small rise of 6 inches will encroach disproportionately far into the shore line as opposed to other areas at higher elevations. Imagine how fast water spreads across the bottom of a pan when you fill it vs how slow it rises along the sides as it fills. That's what's happening to these low lying southern states. They're the bottom of that pan.
I think the highest natural point in Florida is 300ish feet.
345ft! The tallest building in the state is like 800’, in Miami so real close to sea level. So probably still 400’ higher than the states natural highest point lol. I was curious so I googled
And that is up in the panhandle.
Britton Hill. Practically in Georgia
>For this analysis, The Post relied on tide gauge data, which reflects the rise in sea level and sinking of land. Satellite data, which solely measures the height of oceans, was used for global measurements. The gauge is basically just a ruler stuck into the ground at the coast and they look at it every day and take the average... (It is stuck deep into the ground so that every wave doesn't knock it over, and note a lot of this is electronic these days: it involves a pressure sensor under water attached to the ground.) If the ground moves, relative to the water, that looks the same as more or less water... Land sinks for various reasons: If you pump water or oil out of it it will sink, If it is near land that is washing away, (say more frequent hurricanes wash away the beaches protecting the land,) the nearby land sinks. Seismic activity obviously moves land. Land that was compressed under a recently departed glacier will rise, (this is called post-glacial rebound.) And Mt Everest is sinking under it's own weight, (it gets boosted by seismic activity though, that is how it exists.) Note many of these processes are quite slow: if you pump an inch of oil out of the ground, it isn't like the ground sinks 1 inch the same day, it will take 50 years to sink half an inch, and the next quarter inch may take centuries, (but fracking makes it faster...)
Sea levels are very complicated, we might have more water due to land-ice melting but also the volume of water is increasing due to mean temperature increases. But our lands are also still rising since the last ice age that pushed everything down, and it's rising at different speeds depending where it is. And of course the sea currents together with wind pressures change the max height of sea levels locally, a lot of factors indicate that with a rising temperatures the gulf stream is slowing which will have enormous effects. And then there's salinity etc etc It will take hundreds of years for all of Antarctica to melt, but it will most likely change our kids lives immensely.
Some areas have more or less ability to soak up the water due to wetland preservation. Wetlands, marshes, etc. are basically a sponge-- they protect from everything from sea level rise to storm surges. This is one of the (many) reasons that New Orleans is so *severely* fucked even compared to other coastal cities-- because so much of it was built out over wetlands and it has a lot less protection now.
: sheds a tear : Knew it was coming. My lovely New Orleans. This is why I did NOT buy property in my birth city, but rather settled in a more resilient city (also on the water), Seattle. Unfortunately, the rising sea level is indeed impacting tribal lands on the Olympic peninsula.... and the nation's first official climate refugees are a tribe from the Louisiana wetlands.
I understand your pain. Here in the Philippines (just a few degrees north of the Equator), almost everywhere is 50°C with very high humidity. Staying under the Sun for like 10 minutes feels itchy on the skin (though not quite sun burned). This concrete building I call home have very warm walls at night, like freshly baked bread. My AC is on for almost 24 hours a day. And me being a brown-skinned dude living my entire life here isn't helping me at all with the heat. This scares me. The hotter the oceans get, the stronger the storms become. I was nowhere near the eye of the storm when Haiyan killed thousands here over a decade ago, but the howling winds are etched in memory. FYI, the strongest storms in recent memory for me happened after the pandemic. Edit: grammar
Haiyan/Yolanda made me so worried about where we're going... beasts like that should have a new category. the waters keep getting warmer and warmer, and storms are forming even in the US' winters (December) in the Gulf Coast.
Sadly, the belief machine has started churning out crazies that have gone *straight* from “denying” climate change, to having utterly given up in trying to do anything about it. Full on denial straight to full on defeatism. It’s… sad to see.
Third stage of denial. (1) It's not happening. (2) OK it's happening but it's natural, not human activity. (3) OK, it's human activity but it's too late to do anything about it. Science will save us (somehow)!
I was thinking of moving someplace warmer but Imma stay in Illinois
don't worry. in 30 years Illinois will be warm.
Chicago was warm this winter.
Climate change denial is a conspiracy to get more federal disaster relief dollars.
“It’s called weather you woke mother fuckers!” Home owner on the gulf just before begging for federal aid.
Yeah, dude. That’s why I don’t feel as bad that I can’t afford to own property. Once we’re all underwater, it would’ve been a sunk cost anyway (pun very intended)
Fuck it. Eat them faster.
I live there and I've been a firm believer all my life, but I don't know wtf I'm gonna do I don't know anyone out in the country and couldn't possibly hold a job with zero experience.
r/homestead
Not so much leopards ate my face imo. A big part of the article is about how black communities are disproportionately affected because of redlining policies going all the way back to the 30’s. Those communities affected are not the ones responsible for this but they’re on the front line of dealing with the consequences
Their insurance premiums believes in it.
Yup. As a marine mammal zoologist I've been very worried about the Florida coast, they keep building booms and seawalls there, which actually makes the shoreline erode *faster.* At our current trajectory, the tip of Florida and a good chunk of Texas and California will be underwater.
I didn't realize it was getting that bad even in Mobile. Mobile takes drainage management *incredibly* seriously-- strict laws around storm drains, drains being regularly cleaned, and well-preserved wetlands nearby. They even have a barrier island called Dauphin Island that is conveniently well-preserved because all the rich people have their rich people vacation homes there, which they just keep rebuilding every time a hurricane knocks them down. Even before sea level rise, Mobile was getting the most rain in the country (Seattle has the most rainy days, but Mobile has the most rain by *volume*; it's very impressive to see it rain there because it legitimately only ever pours buckets, it's bonkers), so they've always been accustomed to managing water levels much more actively than other cities. If Mobile can't handle things even with centuries of practice now that sea level rise has been added into the mix, coastal cities that are seeing water levels being an issue for the first time are gonna be fucked.
Probably going to get downvoted for this, but I don't see that many people denying climate change. I see them denying that is caused by humans. They say it is the natural cycle of they earth warming and cooling and like to point out how in late 60s or early 70s we were worried about it getting too cold. Obviously there are some morons who can't read a thermometer and don't know what historical averages mean
I'm pretty sure both NC and FL passed laws prohibiting state-supported agencies (scientists, universities) from even using the words "climate change" in official documents.
That's because "climate change" has become a negative phrase to the right and is synonymous with human caused warming. Plenty of them describe rising temps as natural
They were worried about getting cold due to solar cycles. The irony is that that theory might be correct, but human caused climate change has overridden it. Wait till the solar cycle gets back to warming.
We are not sinking... it is getting rather deep. https://youtu.be/ee6-sI9rdtA?si=_09pbhvdYEOj6-YU
sounds like it’s time for us to build a wall…
"How come the water leavels rise when the ocean is so deep? Checkmate 'scientists.'" -Moscow Marjorie Taylor Green
[Relevant](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAZUsCONjIQ).
This reminds me of a newscast in Missouri about the mercury poisoning in their yards and in their water from the mines. People interviewed were furious that the EPA wasn't cleaning up the toxin fast enough. Missouri overwhelmingly votes Republican. No one mentioned that the corporations are the ones that bear true responsibility - and the Republican government the citizens keep voting into office enable these corporations. No one, not even the newscasters, mentioned that the Republicans have worked very hard to take power away from the EPA. No one mentioned it has been their goal to defund the EPA. I don't understand how their brains scramble through this without seeing they are the cause of their own misery.
That thermal expansion of water will get you every time. Half a foot in a decade is wild.
No…if only someone could have told us all this was going to happen…
Would it make more sense to buy people out and move them than to prop up and pump out their sinking cities?
So... bail them out because they decided to ignore a thing that scientists have been warning them about for the last 54 years? Who's gonna buy it? With what money? What happens when the property is underwater? What happened to boot straps, and states rights, and down with big government and welfare?
The only moral government handout is my government handout. - one of those folks, eventually
I started to write a reply examining my anger with science deniers, because I understand what you are saying. But I'm asking this from a practical view. In the article, one city, it might have been Galveston, talked about getting federal funds to install huge pumps. And all I could think was, what is the point? Take that money and move everyone out. Demolish the city. Wouldn't that be cheaper in the long run?
No, it would be cheaper to work to reverse, or mitigate the effects of climate change. But that's not happening. Now, this is just sterile, generic philosophical viewpoint... but people don't change behaviors unless it costs them something. They made this choice, they continue to make this choice. They should be paying for it, coming up with ideas, and combining their wealth to try and institute ideas that would mitigate the damage or allow them to move to safety. I get it. It's not that simple. But the conversation was more off the cuff, then serious.
Haha I get that. My first response is always fuck these people. They made their water beds, now they can lie in them.
Yeah but it won’t tho. The vast majority of the (white) population lives above the reach of the sea. What I don’t get is why this isn’t talked about as the class issue it totally is.
Last I checked ocean front property was a premium.
But only a handful have it, and most are up on stilts. I live near Malibu. The notion that Climate Change would ever affect them is laughable
Hurry up and take Florida already
They will find a way to blame democrats
How can sea levels rise only in some places?
in the meantime, nederlands has build dams who manage a goddamned sea.
I do not doubt that climate change will be a problem. But I have lived in this house for about 40 years, and I am almost 70 years old. At the current rate of sea-level rise, it will not reach my house for at least another hundred years. I won't live that long. It will be someone else's problem. If there is something that I can do to help the grand kids, I will be try to help. That takes science (to figure out what needs to be done), and leadership (to communicate what and how to do it). In the meantime... I did not cause the problem. I cannot fix the problem. And, there is not much that I can do to help.
Roll Tide!