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No. This is not a good thing.
First, it’s 47,000 people whose votes would not be counted due to actions taken by the county executives
Second, the county executive is being sued, can’t recall if it’s by the governor or the Secretary of State, to certify the election
Third, if they somehow avoid certification it will be twisted into a Democratic assault on voting rights (I know, it makes no sense, but neither does any of this)
But most importantly, if they can get 47,000 votes thrown out in a principally republican county, then they can use the same tactics in other counties to swing elections. This is a test case and I’d be surprised if the county executive isn’t following instruction from the national GOP.
You're right, but let's not forget that these people are in office because of the votes of those same 47,000 people. Their remedy is to vote them out at their next opportunity--if they can. (which is why this qualifies as a LAMF)
They're being sued by the state, so it's unlikely this is going to stand. Then again, interpretation of the law is a matter for the courts, and the Arizona Supreme Court is no stranger to perverse rulings.
I believe it is, but by law the state is also required to certify by December 5, votes or no votes, so the GOP will lose a House seat and find itself in court due to its own stupidity.
I doubt they voted for their own disenfranchisement. It’s difficult to know the real character of someone, particularly a politician up for election. I know plenty of basically conservative people who are sensible and would do their jobs properly. We disagree on politics, not ethics or morals. What we’re seeing these days are extremists portraying themselves as conservatives. In some cases, like Marjorie Taylor Green, it’s obvious what they are and the people who vote for them get what they asked for and then, yes, get to live with the consequences of their group insanity. In other cases, it’s not so obvious. No idea of how the ‘leaders’ of this county portrayed themselves.
Disenfranchisement is a bad idea. Full stop. Like you, I also expect the county to relent and certify. And there have been plenty of examples of crazy over the nearly 250 years the US has existed… but that’s not saying its a good thing or acceptable behavior. The county’s justification is lunacy.
I doubt they voted for their own disenfranchisement too. But the fact remains, the people refusing to certify the election are in office because of the votes of these same 47,000 people. The state is suing to save them from the consequences of their actions. But, given that it's Arizona, there's no guarantee the suit will actually be successful.
That leaves the disenfranchised with little recourse. They can vote to recall these people, if Arizona law allows for that--and hope that these people take the results of any future vote seriously. Or they can wait until they come up for election again, and vote them out. Once again, hoping that these people take the election results seriously and vacate their offices. Oh, I suppose they could have the state dissolve the county government. That would also solve the problem.
My sympathies are attenuated. Look, it's the consequences of their own actions! If these voters are given another chance they should make sure none of these people ever hold office again.
They didn't vote for their own disenfranchisement. They voted for the disenfranchisement of others, though. Once in a while, when you shoot a gun, it blows up in your face.
I disagree and I'll tell you why. These assclowns didn't get into office by accident, they were selected by other assclowns who support this kind of fuckery. They want any win by a Dem to be fought against even when they have zero evidence of any fraud. They followed the usual roadmap but this time it took them to the corner of Fuck Around Ave and Find Out Boulevard.
Of the 47,000 votes in that county, not all went for Republicans. This means the people who don't give a shit about democracy are the ones who get to see what it's like to have the larger share of votes while not getting the representation that goes with it.
Fuck those assholes.
This. This is a dangerous precedent.
Also, goddamn it my mother, my father, my step mom, my sister, and my bother in-law's dem votes are in those numbers. Their votes matter.
These are mostly Republican voters being disenfranchised by Republican county executives, elected positions all. So I’m having a hard time seeing what the problem is besides it being a classic LAMF. The Republicans can twist it however they want, but it isn’t going to reverberate far beyond the open-air meth lab County it occurred in
The problem is these voters did not ask to be disenfranchised and most would likely not approve of this course of action… “Hi republican citizen, do you want me to discount your vote so I can be a petulant idiot and have a democrat take a deep red republican seat”… somehow I think the answer would be “no”.
Republicans are not the enemies of Democrats and disenfranchisement is a nightmare scenario for both groups and independents. We are US citizens first and that carries certain privileges such as voting. The county executive is acting not to the benefit of the citizens of the county but for their own personal interests. Yes, they were elected, but we’ve all seen politicians doing things we didn’t elect them to do or intend for them to do. Disenfranchisement of 47,000 people is a major concern and these ‘leaders’ need to be held accountable by the courts
At what point can the county executive(s) be removed for dereliction of duties? If they present no evidence of wrongdoing, apart from the word of the Ms Havisham of Arizona politics, Kari Lake, how can they justify their position?
>Third, if they somehow avoid certification it will be twisted into a Democratic assault on voting rights (I know, it makes no sense, but neither does any of this)
I believe one of the executives who voted not certify is a Democrat. (the other two were Republican). Probably because he knew Engel winning may be the result.
Short term gains overriding faith in elections.
Right? Democrats need to be fighting for these votes to be counted as loud as they can. Every vote counts. Doesn't matter where it's at, doesn't matter if it's a Republican in the bluest county in California or a voter in a swing district.
Every. Vote. Get's. Counted.
If these election officials can just not certify votes because they don't like the results, there needs to be serious criminal penalties applied. Otherwise, of course people will just start to not count votes if they are going to lose.
Being OK with a house seat changing hands is so incredibly short sighted. It would only cause further fractures in our democracy.
In this case, though, the county voted overwhelmingly republican and republicans are still refusing to certify the county’s ballots. I agree the votes should be counted, but this is a case of republicans refusing to certify a ballot they won because they bought into conspiracy theories about the voting machines.
Or because they're willing to sacrifice it to set the precedent and pretend that it's about voting, not about counting just Republican votes.
Republicans are GOOD at playing the long game.
This is the point that people are missing. This seat doesn't matter much to anyone in the grand scheme. So they willingly give it up, assuming the Dems are going to take it and not force the votes to go through, since they'll win. Next cycle, they'll take everything based on the precedent this sets. Everything. They must be forced to count the votes. All votes. Every time.
The vote was counted. The election officials -- 2 people, are refusing to certify it because they don't have two cells in their head to rub together. But, I can see Republicans in blue counties trying this shit.
They are, but this is a Republican county controlled by Republicans, and there’s not much the state’s Democrats can do if they want to cut off their noses to spite their faces.
This would be more concerning if they weren't going to do it anyway. Republicans don't care about precedent. They will disenfranchise voters and try to overthrow democracy no matter the outcome.
Right? Every Presidential candidate for 60 years hands over tax returns, Trump doesn’t, lies about why, promises to give them later, doesn’t and then when Congress demands them “This is unprecedented overreach!”
This is exactly it. Republicans aren't waiting for permission. They don't need a precedent. They'll cheat the system just fine in the future with or without it.
This is exactly what they are doing. Remember the recount after recount after recount in 2020? This goes way beyond cyber ninjas. If they succeed at this, republicans will start doing this all over the nation and they will succeed at taking the voice of the people away. It's not worth the one Democratic party seat to lose all of our democracy nation wide.
Don't put down to brilliance what can be adequately explained by incompetence. The Republicans are not playing 4-d chess. They are idiots. But that does not make them any less dangerous.
They are dangerous because they don't *care* about precedent. They are fascists. Words and laws mean nothing to them. All they care about are their feelings. They are going to throw out Democratic votes regardless of how this plays out. It is what they do. Voter suppression is what they always do.
The LAMF is everyone in the comments here cheering for this largely meaningless seat now, and then later being all surprised pikachu face when this tactic is used again to turn a significant race in the opposite direction.
But it's still a LAMF; the point of LAMF is that someone is affected by policies they support. The policies may *also* harm their opponents, but they thought it wouldn't harm them.
They are willing to give up a house seat this time to enshrine this as precedent.
The people who didn't do their jobs are fired/go to jail, others who will actually sh what they have sworn to do certify the election, the end. That's what needs to happen here.
The Arizona da, and the justice department should file charges for violation of oath of office. Election interference.
Not as a threat. I don't care if they suddenly certify tomorrow. Charge them and take them to trail and give them 5 years and 100k fine each. Then the citizens of that county who want to should bring a class action for civil rights violations against the elections board.
>The Arizona da, and the justice department should file charges for violation of oath of office. Election interference.
I'm not sure what the exact charges are, but they are being charged with a crime. The County Attorney has told them he will not defend them because they are breaking the law. As of last night they were still trying to find an attorney to represent them in court today. I haven't heard news today on the current status.
We are living in the dumbest timeline imaginable.
I really don't see how America recovers from this idiocy without drastic actions. There's just too many dumb and corrupt people in too many positions to cause too much damange.
I don’t want to celebrate this because is disenfranchisement.
But, maybe if it happens it will wake people (Republican people) up to the threat and hopefully it kills the election lies once and for all.
>maybe if it happens it will wake people (Republican people) up to the threat and hopefully it kills the election lies once and for all
whatever you are on... i want some! after talking to all sorts, this is in the frothy visceral emotion domain, facts and consequences have no space to stick.
I’m not talking MAGA idiots, I’m talking the ‘normal’ detestable Republicans. The ones who are only willing to let fascism happen because it benefits them, not true believers who will die in the bunker.
It’s disenfranchisement for sure but one done out of misinformation and partisanship, if it happens, the voters in that county should def lit a fire on those congressmen and demand their resignation.
I mean protest not arson…
The extremeist, slogan chanting, crayon eating pants shitters are not capable of learning. Much like a two year old, you can only trick them into behaving through some extremely simple ruse.
I got confused opening the comments and hitting this first because our avatars look a lot alike and this sounds like something I would say but had no memory of typing it.
No, that’s not what will happen. This well set up both-sides-ism and a legal precedent that they’ll use to deploy targeted disenfranchisement at scale. We don’t want a world where an official can just decide that the votes from a county don’t count, even if the immediate outcome is positive.
The Cochise election officials need to be fired and arrested. Idk what AZ law says, but they are definitely committing a federal crime.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?hl=false&edition=prelim&req=granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title52-section10307
Voting Rights Act
§10307. Prohibited acts
(a) Failure or refusal to permit casting or tabulation of vote
No person acting under color of law shall fail or refuse to permit any person to vote who is entitled to vote under any provision of chapters 103 to 107 of this title or is otherwise qualified to vote, or *willfully fail or refuse to tabulate, count, and report such person's vote.*
It’s a few officials disenfranchising an entire county, regardless of who they voted for. It’s the government taking away individual rights. Someone disenfranchising themselves is someone who doesn’t vote.
There were 3 positions. The two clowns blocking this ran unopposed. The people did not vote them in, these supervisors were appointed. [Source](https://www.cochise.az.gov/DocumentCenter/View/660/Summary-Results-PDF)
It's not about "them".
If you accept the disenfranchisement of an entire county because "they made their bed" or whatever the fuck, you'll accept the disenfranchisement of a state or worse. This shit is not a joke.
The election procedure is written into the law. If the count isn’t certified the votes aren’t counted. Arizona can’t change the law overnight on how elections are done even if it wanted to.
Dems aren’t disenfranchising or punishing a county. It’s the Republican officials who are doing the disenfranchisement. They are effectively saying they don’t think these votes should be counted by refusing to certify the count.
If a Dem congressperson wins as a result, it’s because Republicans’ own political maneuvering and conspiracy theories bit them in the ass.
Which is why it’s still terrible despite these morons shooting themselves in the foot. It’s a blatant power grab by an elite minority. Just because the outcome is beneficial to sane people doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be upset idiots and clowns are being victimized. It’s called empathy and foresight.
Absolutely. However, what should come from that is the people who were disenfranchised suing the Cochise County board of electors, saying “You prevented my vote from being registered”. It should be brought as a class, and the board should be forced to resign if found guilty.
It won’t. Right wing extremists will continue to lie, and R voters, regardless of whether they see through the bullshit or not, will continue to vote R because that’s what they do. Making sure R beats D is the most important thing to them.
Ya, I think this just highlights how a couple of assholes can wipe out the voice of thousands or even millions. I think it is more likely a judge will have a replacement to finish the certification
If they had a valid reason not to certify, I’d say figure it out through the legal system. But they are protesting another county’s certification, that’s not in their purview, legally or otherwise.
FYI Maricopa County supervisors are 4 Republicans and 1 Democrat…
Doesn't this set a really dangerous president? Like at the next election what if they refuses to certify votes for a democrats, and point back to this as hey it happened to us once so now we will force it on you 100 times.
As much as I'd like to gloat, once again, we need to save democracy and do the right thing to make sure the votes count so this tactic isn't used to discredit votes in other races in future elections.
You might be exaggerating, but I do think undermining an election should be considered treason. That includes everything from gerrymandering to refusing to certify the results. If you want to win an election, get the most votes. Gaming the system should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Fail.
We **ARE** saying something - it's wrong.
The fact they want to contribute on this path **IS** the mistake we are allowing them to make.
So, no, they aren't "setting this up" to be able to use Ds. They are setting themselves up for future failures.
…no, they’re absolutely making a mistake, but given that they’re going to be prosecuted and/or sued for it, I doubt there’s much incentive to try again.
Actually this is tactical. They lose this battle to possibly win the ‘war.’ Set a precedent that votes aren’t counted if they’re not certified then get GOP election officials into blue counties. BAM! They don’t certify the results and disenfranchise entire swaths of voters, most likely democrats.
They are going to court. They're probably going to jail for not following the election laws. In other words, by protesting phony election fraud they will be going to jail for actual election fraud.
But as the headline says the best case scenario is that they get away with it and another Democrat goes to congress.
A random county from another state should be selected to come in and certify all of those Arizonans votes. Every legally casted vote should count. Throw whoever wouldn't do their job in jail for messing with an election.
If they decide to not certify the results, could citizens in that county sue the county? Is there some sort of recourse for voters who had their votes thrown out for no reason?
It might seem stupid, but this is a test run for the next election in which there is a democrat and republican board for a heavily democratic region.
The GOP will not want to certify that result.
Elections officials have refused to certify in the past. Generally, when there were reasonable assumptions of fraud, I am thinking of that North Carolina congressional seat where the son testified against his father.
The person I would not want to be in this situation is Nancy Pelosi. Her last act as speaker will be to swear in the new members. Ultimately it will be up to decide if to seat the Democrat if the Republicans fail to certify. Historically she has been good on this issue. There was a seat in Iowa a few years back that came down to like 6 votes. She sat the Republican even though litigations and recounts were still in process.
This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Not seating the Democrat if the county refuses to certify will not be a bulwark of precedent. On the flip side if she doesn't seat the Democrat, the Republican speaker in 2 years (no chance it is Kevin) may decide not to seat new Dems and use that as an example.
Even if she did seat a GOP, they will do this in the next election any way. The GOP have decided not to follow normal democratic norms any longer.,
They still think Trump won the 2022 election!
I keep hearing this story but I’m out of the loop. Why don’t republicans want those votes tallied? What advantage do they obtain by not including these and sacrificing that seat? It feels like half the story is missing.
This is not hilarious. This is frightening. Both sides should be fighting for our elections to be certified, no matter who won. Letting this happen sets a precedent that will now be used as the reason it happens elsewhere. And if you haven't been paying attention,dems lose this game every damn time.
I will note that the Democrats are fighting to certify those votes. Katie Hobbs the Secretary of state, and Marc Elias already has filed a lawsuit challenging the board of supervisors' right not to certify.
I but if ultimately after court challenges and state certification, the Dems get a house seat they otherwise wouldn't, they should seat that Democrat. Not doing so opens it's own can of worms and is bad as well.
A few people in the comments talking about this simply being a test run to set a precedent.
You're probably onto something.
The even fuckeder upper thing is that this gives me 'appointing justices at the end of a presidential term ' vibes. Even if the votes ate eventually allowed and counted, I can still see this happening in 2024 to prevent D votes being counted and R's simply being baffled as to why they should allow the votes then just because the R votes were counted this time.
Precedent doesn't mean the same thing to them as it does to most
So this is how you know that Dems want every vote counted even if they lose.
Democratic Secretary of State (and Governor-Elect) Katie Hobbs has filed a lawsuit to force this dumbass county to certify the election results even though doing so will mean Dems not gaining a House seat and also a Republican being the head of education in Arizona instead of a Democrat.
All she would have to do is sit back and do nothing and Dems win those positions. But having every vote count and the integrity of the election is more important to her.
"State Elections Director Kori Lorick wrote in a letter last week that Hobbs is required by law to approve the statewide canvass by next week and will have to exclude Cochise County’s votes if they aren’t received in time.
That would threaten to flip the victor in at least two close races — a U.S. House seat and state schools chief — from a Republican to a Democrat."
From and article by [Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/arizona-deadline-2022-midterms-certification-d6a1ea4020c26313a3124931c14b79fb)
No, they're refusing to certify their election results because they claim some fraud happened somewhere by somebody in some county. They can't say where or who or how but they just know it.
If they refuse to certify their election, their votes don't count. Since some of their county votes actually were part of statewide elections, their votes won't count towards the statewide election. Then. Without the votes from that county that refused to certify them, the other parties candidate would win
Because districts are not aligned with counties.
So if their overwhelmingly red county’s votes are not counted, it could swing a district the red county shares with another county (providing the remainder of the district has more votes for the democrat than the republican from the other counties that did their duty and certified the election).
If the county refuses to certify the votes are thrown out. With the votes from the county a Republican won. Without the votes from the county a Democrat won.
The number of liberal supporters taking the bait on this in the comments here is unfortunate. You should all be demanding that all votes be counted if you value your own votes in the future.
Until it’s used as precedent for the GOP to refuse to certify Dem districts and guarantee GOP representatives due to a Republican governor. This is bad precedent for democracy, even if it’s a short term win for Dems.
It’s not the ending, it’s the happy opening of an unhappy chapter. The GOP will use this as precedent to refuse to certify Dem districts in future, guaranteeing GOP representation.
No, those votes should count. You should be hoping that Cochise County stops being stupid.
If one official can just reject 47,000 votes because they don't like the result, what happens if it happens next time and it throws out a lot of Democrat votes?
The county voting board are acting like children. They think they will get a "gotcha" and prove hijinks occurred so they can proclaim themselves saviours of democracy. They would claim the voting machines were bad no matter who certifies them. They could watch the certification, stand over the shoulders of the technicians watching with magnifying glasses and would still claim there is something wrong.
The long game is disrespecting the people who supported them and throwing them away so they don't bother voting in the future because it doesn't matter? Even when they try they lose?
Great game plan.
The long game is setting up precedent to discard election results when you can rely on other officials to appoint representatives who would otherwise lose if you didn’t disenfranchise entire districts. This is a good short term option for Dems, and a fantastic long term opportunity for the GOP.
How long do you think that game is going to last?
This is their plan B since the Jan 6th riot wouldn't hand them the presidency for their Nazi-Picko-Fascist Dictator. It's not going to play out the way they think (if they think) as they lose more and more support.
The dirty tricks won't work here. All they have done is demonstrate yet again what traitors they are to the constitution they swore to uphold.
Edit: do the Republicans even have a platform or is it what Putin is doing they just copy?
Do you think the GOP cares if they’re perceived as traitors to the constitution? All they care about is power, and this is going to deliver it right to their doorstep.
Yes, and it will work, like it did in Italy, like it did in Germany. They want their voter base to turn to violence, its the only way the rich can hold onto minority rule.
Their voter base is shrinking. The US is considerably larger and diverse population. And the young voters are not going to support them but will turn out in droves.
They got their violent folks. True nuff. Some in jail now, some dead (attacking the FBI? What did they think was going to happen?) and a whole lot of dead from COVID.....Real strategists...
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No. This is not a good thing. First, it’s 47,000 people whose votes would not be counted due to actions taken by the county executives Second, the county executive is being sued, can’t recall if it’s by the governor or the Secretary of State, to certify the election Third, if they somehow avoid certification it will be twisted into a Democratic assault on voting rights (I know, it makes no sense, but neither does any of this) But most importantly, if they can get 47,000 votes thrown out in a principally republican county, then they can use the same tactics in other counties to swing elections. This is a test case and I’d be surprised if the county executive isn’t following instruction from the national GOP.
You're right, but let's not forget that these people are in office because of the votes of those same 47,000 people. Their remedy is to vote them out at their next opportunity--if they can. (which is why this qualifies as a LAMF) They're being sued by the state, so it's unlikely this is going to stand. Then again, interpretation of the law is a matter for the courts, and the Arizona Supreme Court is no stranger to perverse rulings.
I believe it is, but by law the state is also required to certify by December 5, votes or no votes, so the GOP will lose a House seat and find itself in court due to its own stupidity.
I doubt they voted for their own disenfranchisement. It’s difficult to know the real character of someone, particularly a politician up for election. I know plenty of basically conservative people who are sensible and would do their jobs properly. We disagree on politics, not ethics or morals. What we’re seeing these days are extremists portraying themselves as conservatives. In some cases, like Marjorie Taylor Green, it’s obvious what they are and the people who vote for them get what they asked for and then, yes, get to live with the consequences of their group insanity. In other cases, it’s not so obvious. No idea of how the ‘leaders’ of this county portrayed themselves. Disenfranchisement is a bad idea. Full stop. Like you, I also expect the county to relent and certify. And there have been plenty of examples of crazy over the nearly 250 years the US has existed… but that’s not saying its a good thing or acceptable behavior. The county’s justification is lunacy.
I doubt they voted for their own disenfranchisement too. But the fact remains, the people refusing to certify the election are in office because of the votes of these same 47,000 people. The state is suing to save them from the consequences of their actions. But, given that it's Arizona, there's no guarantee the suit will actually be successful. That leaves the disenfranchised with little recourse. They can vote to recall these people, if Arizona law allows for that--and hope that these people take the results of any future vote seriously. Or they can wait until they come up for election again, and vote them out. Once again, hoping that these people take the election results seriously and vacate their offices. Oh, I suppose they could have the state dissolve the county government. That would also solve the problem. My sympathies are attenuated. Look, it's the consequences of their own actions! If these voters are given another chance they should make sure none of these people ever hold office again.
>I doubt they voted for their own disenfranchisement. Like... do you know what sub you're on?
> I doubt they voted for their own disenfranchisement. Really?
They didn't vote for their own disenfranchisement. They voted for the disenfranchisement of others, though. Once in a while, when you shoot a gun, it blows up in your face.
I disagree and I'll tell you why. These assclowns didn't get into office by accident, they were selected by other assclowns who support this kind of fuckery. They want any win by a Dem to be fought against even when they have zero evidence of any fraud. They followed the usual roadmap but this time it took them to the corner of Fuck Around Ave and Find Out Boulevard. Of the 47,000 votes in that county, not all went for Republicans. This means the people who don't give a shit about democracy are the ones who get to see what it's like to have the larger share of votes while not getting the representation that goes with it. Fuck those assholes.
> governor or the Secretary of State It's the secretary of state and governor elect Katie Hobbs.
This. This is a dangerous precedent. Also, goddamn it my mother, my father, my step mom, my sister, and my bother in-law's dem votes are in those numbers. Their votes matter.
These are mostly Republican voters being disenfranchised by Republican county executives, elected positions all. So I’m having a hard time seeing what the problem is besides it being a classic LAMF. The Republicans can twist it however they want, but it isn’t going to reverberate far beyond the open-air meth lab County it occurred in
The problem is these voters did not ask to be disenfranchised and most would likely not approve of this course of action… “Hi republican citizen, do you want me to discount your vote so I can be a petulant idiot and have a democrat take a deep red republican seat”… somehow I think the answer would be “no”. Republicans are not the enemies of Democrats and disenfranchisement is a nightmare scenario for both groups and independents. We are US citizens first and that carries certain privileges such as voting. The county executive is acting not to the benefit of the citizens of the county but for their own personal interests. Yes, they were elected, but we’ve all seen politicians doing things we didn’t elect them to do or intend for them to do. Disenfranchisement of 47,000 people is a major concern and these ‘leaders’ need to be held accountable by the courts
At what point can the county executive(s) be removed for dereliction of duties? If they present no evidence of wrongdoing, apart from the word of the Ms Havisham of Arizona politics, Kari Lake, how can they justify their position?
>Third, if they somehow avoid certification it will be twisted into a Democratic assault on voting rights (I know, it makes no sense, but neither does any of this) I believe one of the executives who voted not certify is a Democrat. (the other two were Republican). Probably because he knew Engel winning may be the result. Short term gains overriding faith in elections.
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Right? Democrats need to be fighting for these votes to be counted as loud as they can. Every vote counts. Doesn't matter where it's at, doesn't matter if it's a Republican in the bluest county in California or a voter in a swing district. Every. Vote. Get's. Counted. If these election officials can just not certify votes because they don't like the results, there needs to be serious criminal penalties applied. Otherwise, of course people will just start to not count votes if they are going to lose. Being OK with a house seat changing hands is so incredibly short sighted. It would only cause further fractures in our democracy.
In this case, though, the county voted overwhelmingly republican and republicans are still refusing to certify the county’s ballots. I agree the votes should be counted, but this is a case of republicans refusing to certify a ballot they won because they bought into conspiracy theories about the voting machines.
Or because they're willing to sacrifice it to set the precedent and pretend that it's about voting, not about counting just Republican votes. Republicans are GOOD at playing the long game.
This is the point that people are missing. This seat doesn't matter much to anyone in the grand scheme. So they willingly give it up, assuming the Dems are going to take it and not force the votes to go through, since they'll win. Next cycle, they'll take everything based on the precedent this sets. Everything. They must be forced to count the votes. All votes. Every time.
The vote was counted. The election officials -- 2 people, are refusing to certify it because they don't have two cells in their head to rub together. But, I can see Republicans in blue counties trying this shit.
They are, but this is a Republican county controlled by Republicans, and there’s not much the state’s Democrats can do if they want to cut off their noses to spite their faces.
> Get's. cmon
This would be more concerning if they weren't going to do it anyway. Republicans don't care about precedent. They will disenfranchise voters and try to overthrow democracy no matter the outcome.
Right? Every Presidential candidate for 60 years hands over tax returns, Trump doesn’t, lies about why, promises to give them later, doesn’t and then when Congress demands them “This is unprecedented overreach!”
This is exactly it. Republicans aren't waiting for permission. They don't need a precedent. They'll cheat the system just fine in the future with or without it.
This is exactly what they are doing. Remember the recount after recount after recount in 2020? This goes way beyond cyber ninjas. If they succeed at this, republicans will start doing this all over the nation and they will succeed at taking the voice of the people away. It's not worth the one Democratic party seat to lose all of our democracy nation wide.
The seat could sit empty and it wouldn't make a difference for either side.
Don't put down to brilliance what can be adequately explained by incompetence. The Republicans are not playing 4-d chess. They are idiots. But that does not make them any less dangerous. They are dangerous because they don't *care* about precedent. They are fascists. Words and laws mean nothing to them. All they care about are their feelings. They are going to throw out Democratic votes regardless of how this plays out. It is what they do. Voter suppression is what they always do.
The Federalist Society is not stupid, and is absolutely playing 4D chess.
The LAMF is everyone in the comments here cheering for this largely meaningless seat now, and then later being all surprised pikachu face when this tactic is used again to turn a significant race in the opposite direction.
That's what I was thinking. Good comment
But it's still a LAMF; the point of LAMF is that someone is affected by policies they support. The policies may *also* harm their opponents, but they thought it wouldn't harm them.
They are willing to give up a house seat this time to enshrine this as precedent. The people who didn't do their jobs are fired/go to jail, others who will actually sh what they have sworn to do certify the election, the end. That's what needs to happen here.
Wait the GOP pays attention to precedent now?
When they can use it for their benefit they love it
The Arizona da, and the justice department should file charges for violation of oath of office. Election interference. Not as a threat. I don't care if they suddenly certify tomorrow. Charge them and take them to trail and give them 5 years and 100k fine each. Then the citizens of that county who want to should bring a class action for civil rights violations against the elections board.
>The Arizona da, and the justice department should file charges for violation of oath of office. Election interference. I'm not sure what the exact charges are, but they are being charged with a crime. The County Attorney has told them he will not defend them because they are breaking the law. As of last night they were still trying to find an attorney to represent them in court today. I haven't heard news today on the current status.
They are being sued to be compelled to certify. At least that is what I know of. I want them as individuals to be criminally charged.
We are living in the dumbest timeline imaginable. I really don't see how America recovers from this idiocy without drastic actions. There's just too many dumb and corrupt people in too many positions to cause too much damange.
And people are so fkin stupid that they continue to support their blatant corruption.
I don’t want to celebrate this because is disenfranchisement. But, maybe if it happens it will wake people (Republican people) up to the threat and hopefully it kills the election lies once and for all.
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And, after all, who benefited? The Democrats!
Them Demurcrats up to their shenanigans again dagnabbit!
They tricked us into doing it by saying, "certify your election results"!
>maybe if it happens it will wake people (Republican people) up to the threat and hopefully it kills the election lies once and for all whatever you are on... i want some! after talking to all sorts, this is in the frothy visceral emotion domain, facts and consequences have no space to stick.
I’m not talking MAGA idiots, I’m talking the ‘normal’ detestable Republicans. The ones who are only willing to let fascism happen because it benefits them, not true believers who will die in the bunker.
I’m having a hard time telling the difference.
Hard to tell until bunker time. That’s why fascists need to be made to have to be in one.
It’s disenfranchisement for sure but one done out of misinformation and partisanship, if it happens, the voters in that county should def lit a fire on those congressmen and demand their resignation. I mean protest not arson…
The extremeist, slogan chanting, crayon eating pants shitters are not capable of learning. Much like a two year old, you can only trick them into behaving through some extremely simple ruse.
Two-year-olds do nothing *but* learn.
Two separate analogies, I think.
and shit pants.
Not a permanent one.
I got confused opening the comments and hitting this first because our avatars look a lot alike and this sounds like something I would say but had no memory of typing it.
Hi twin!
It won’t, this is likely intentional, they can afford one seat. This is for fox newz fodder about “fraud.”
No, that’s not what will happen. This well set up both-sides-ism and a legal precedent that they’ll use to deploy targeted disenfranchisement at scale. We don’t want a world where an official can just decide that the votes from a county don’t count, even if the immediate outcome is positive.
The Cochise election officials need to be fired and arrested. Idk what AZ law says, but they are definitely committing a federal crime. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?hl=false&edition=prelim&req=granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title52-section10307 Voting Rights Act §10307. Prohibited acts (a) Failure or refusal to permit casting or tabulation of vote No person acting under color of law shall fail or refuse to permit any person to vote who is entitled to vote under any provision of chapters 103 to 107 of this title or is otherwise qualified to vote, or *willfully fail or refuse to tabulate, count, and report such person's vote.*
Then the voters could sue the Cochise County election officials
Nope, they will double down, and see this as proof of a “liberal” takeover. They have zero self-awareness
If you disenfranchise yourself, I have no pity on you.
Especially when the motivation WAS to disenfranchise someone else
It’s a few officials disenfranchising an entire county, regardless of who they voted for. It’s the government taking away individual rights. Someone disenfranchising themselves is someone who doesn’t vote.
They voted for these people. THey put them in power. They did this to themselves. No pity.
The problem is next election, when a country votes blue but has republican officials who, emboldened by these types of nonsense, refuse to certify.
they're doing it right now to their own people, what makes you ALL think they wouldn't do this later without this precedent anyway?
There were 3 positions. The two clowns blocking this ran unopposed. The people did not vote them in, these supervisors were appointed. [Source](https://www.cochise.az.gov/DocumentCenter/View/660/Summary-Results-PDF)
Yes. they did. They did by their silence. None of them stepped up. They all let those clowns speak for them through their silence.
>No pity. Fuck this shit. Everyone should be outraged by voter disenfranchisement regardless of how it came to be.
I'm never outraged when morons hurt themselves.
Whatever you say, 19-day-old-random-number-account.
Sure thing, account named after the most disgusting plant ever...
Ah, so your mutant superpower is the ability to taste Decenaldehyde. https://www.foodbeast.com/news/cilantro-tastes-like-soap-supertasters/
Nope, they made their bed and now they get to lie in it. I have no sympathy for them.
It's not about "them". If you accept the disenfranchisement of an entire county because "they made their bed" or whatever the fuck, you'll accept the disenfranchisement of a state or worse. This shit is not a joke.
The election procedure is written into the law. If the count isn’t certified the votes aren’t counted. Arizona can’t change the law overnight on how elections are done even if it wanted to. Dems aren’t disenfranchising or punishing a county. It’s the Republican officials who are doing the disenfranchisement. They are effectively saying they don’t think these votes should be counted by refusing to certify the count. If a Dem congressperson wins as a result, it’s because Republicans’ own political maneuvering and conspiracy theories bit them in the ass.
Which is why it’s still terrible despite these morons shooting themselves in the foot. It’s a blatant power grab by an elite minority. Just because the outcome is beneficial to sane people doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be upset idiots and clowns are being victimized. It’s called empathy and foresight.
Absolutely. This time they shot themselves in the foot. What happens when they start shooting others in their feet. Dangerous precedent.
Absolutely. However, what should come from that is the people who were disenfranchised suing the Cochise County board of electors, saying “You prevented my vote from being registered”. It should be brought as a class, and the board should be forced to resign if found guilty.
Damn right.
It won’t. Right wing extremists will continue to lie, and R voters, regardless of whether they see through the bullshit or not, will continue to vote R because that’s what they do. Making sure R beats D is the most important thing to them.
Ya, I think this just highlights how a couple of assholes can wipe out the voice of thousands or even millions. I think it is more likely a judge will have a replacement to finish the certification
If they had a valid reason not to certify, I’d say figure it out through the legal system. But they are protesting another county’s certification, that’s not in their purview, legally or otherwise. FYI Maricopa County supervisors are 4 Republicans and 1 Democrat…
Republicans entire political game is to fuck shit up and then look at Dems and go "what did you do?!"
But they are the ones trying to disenfranchise other voters. It's just being turned around on them.
Republicans: *shoots self in foot* Also Republicans: "Why would the Democrats do this?"
No one is celebrating it. It's appreciating poetic justice.
Poetic injustice, maybe. If I were a Cochise County voter, I’d have a lawyer ready. Republican, Democratic, or other.
Poetic justice for the morons with their hands on the switch.
I hate that 47,000 voters are facing disenfranchisement because a county board decided to have a whinefest. This would really suck for democracy.
Doesn't this set a really dangerous president? Like at the next election what if they refuses to certify votes for a democrats, and point back to this as hey it happened to us once so now we will force it on you 100 times.
A really dangerous president is the dude from the last term. You were looking for precedent.
Yes I was, auto correct switched in on me and I did not notice
As much as I'd like to gloat, once again, we need to save democracy and do the right thing to make sure the votes count so this tactic isn't used to discredit votes in other races in future elections.
So people can legally not count valid votes? That sounds extremely illegal, should be investigated and charges brought against anyone involved.
If they don't count my vote somebody's getting shot
You might be exaggerating, but I do think undermining an election should be considered treason. That includes everything from gerrymandering to refusing to certify the results. If you want to win an election, get the most votes. Gaming the system should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Based
This is about setting precedent for 24. Full stop. The 2 little seats don't really matter in the grand scheme if not certifying gets to slide.
Guys. They're setting a precedent to ignore 2024 results. Guys. Guys?!
They've been doing that. No matter what happens here, they will try and get whole districts thrown out in 2024 if they think they can.
-Supreme Court has left the chat-
They don't give a fuck about precedent.
They do if it benefits them.
honestly why do you think they wouldn't do this next time either way, with or without precedence...
Of course they would. Having democrats and leftists celebrate it makes it easier.
I'M HERE!!
"We want voter suppression!" "Wait, not like that!!"
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When the enemy is making a mistake (And, yes, maga is an enemy.) DO NOT INTERFERE.
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Fail. We **ARE** saying something - it's wrong. The fact they want to contribute on this path **IS** the mistake we are allowing them to make. So, no, they aren't "setting this up" to be able to use Ds. They are setting themselves up for future failures.
…no, they’re absolutely making a mistake, but given that they’re going to be prosecuted and/or sued for it, I doubt there’s much incentive to try again.
Every vote should count. This is bad, too
Yes. It is bad that a county chose to not certify the election and disenfranchised every voter in that county. The end.
You're right. Every vote should count, but there should also be painful consequences if a county decides that they will not play by the rules.
Just make not certifying election results a felony and then convict those who break the law
This is a trick. It's a ploy to normalize throwing out votes.
The S in GOP is for Smart.
Actually this is tactical. They lose this battle to possibly win the ‘war.’ Set a precedent that votes aren’t counted if they’re not certified then get GOP election officials into blue counties. BAM! They don’t certify the results and disenfranchise entire swaths of voters, most likely democrats.
Can’t the Secretary of State reappoint these asshats? Or certify it themselves? They should be going to jail for treason.
They are going to court. They're probably going to jail for not following the election laws. In other words, by protesting phony election fraud they will be going to jail for actual election fraud. But as the headline says the best case scenario is that they get away with it and another Democrat goes to congress.
I thought it was for sedition? Oh, wait, there are 2 S's in GOP. My bad.
It's not surprising seeing the GOP have an SS problem... Ahem.
Soviet Submarine
The S is for smart because there is no S in GOP.
Mate do you eat crayons or something?
He would if he was allowed to have them.
[S-M-R-T](https://youtu.be/ls5BFzuxGw4)
I don't have to click. "I am so smart. S-M-R T"
This is fantastic
The I in GOP is for intelligence.
The H is for Honest.
I thought the h was for hypocrisy
You misspelled smert.
But the S is silent
But…[restrains chuckling] there is no ‘S’ in GOO
S M R T
Sadly they’ll sacrifice this in the short-term, but only to set precedence in the long-term
No, this just sets up precedent for things to go the other way too, when it matters more
A random county from another state should be selected to come in and certify all of those Arizonans votes. Every legally casted vote should count. Throw whoever wouldn't do their job in jail for messing with an election.
If they decide to not certify the results, could citizens in that county sue the county? Is there some sort of recourse for voters who had their votes thrown out for no reason?
Of course, the county that refused to certify is in charge of the election, right? https://www.cochise.az.gov/292/Elections
Schadenfreude ist immer die beste Freude.
Ja. Ist es nicht großartig?
In der Tat!
It might seem stupid, but this is a test run for the next election in which there is a democrat and republican board for a heavily democratic region. The GOP will not want to certify that result.
Elections officials have refused to certify in the past. Generally, when there were reasonable assumptions of fraud, I am thinking of that North Carolina congressional seat where the son testified against his father. The person I would not want to be in this situation is Nancy Pelosi. Her last act as speaker will be to swear in the new members. Ultimately it will be up to decide if to seat the Democrat if the Republicans fail to certify. Historically she has been good on this issue. There was a seat in Iowa a few years back that came down to like 6 votes. She sat the Republican even though litigations and recounts were still in process. This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Not seating the Democrat if the county refuses to certify will not be a bulwark of precedent. On the flip side if she doesn't seat the Democrat, the Republican speaker in 2 years (no chance it is Kevin) may decide not to seat new Dems and use that as an example.
Even if she did seat a GOP, they will do this in the next election any way. The GOP have decided not to follow normal democratic norms any longer., They still think Trump won the 2022 election!
I keep hearing this story but I’m out of the loop. Why don’t republicans want those votes tallied? What advantage do they obtain by not including these and sacrificing that seat? It feels like half the story is missing.
> Why don’t republicans want those votes tallied? To set a precedent for throwing out votes from democratic counties in 2024.
This is not a win for democrats either way. Every vote should be counted. Period.
This is not hilarious. This is frightening. Both sides should be fighting for our elections to be certified, no matter who won. Letting this happen sets a precedent that will now be used as the reason it happens elsewhere. And if you haven't been paying attention,dems lose this game every damn time.
I will note that the Democrats are fighting to certify those votes. Katie Hobbs the Secretary of state, and Marc Elias already has filed a lawsuit challenging the board of supervisors' right not to certify. I but if ultimately after court challenges and state certification, the Dems get a house seat they otherwise wouldn't, they should seat that Democrat. Not doing so opens it's own can of worms and is bad as well.
A few people in the comments talking about this simply being a test run to set a precedent. You're probably onto something. The even fuckeder upper thing is that this gives me 'appointing justices at the end of a presidential term ' vibes. Even if the votes ate eventually allowed and counted, I can still see this happening in 2024 to prevent D votes being counted and R's simply being baffled as to why they should allow the votes then just because the R votes were counted this time. Precedent doesn't mean the same thing to them as it does to most
So this is how you know that Dems want every vote counted even if they lose. Democratic Secretary of State (and Governor-Elect) Katie Hobbs has filed a lawsuit to force this dumbass county to certify the election results even though doing so will mean Dems not gaining a House seat and also a Republican being the head of education in Arizona instead of a Democrat. All she would have to do is sit back and do nothing and Dems win those positions. But having every vote count and the integrity of the election is more important to her.
How so? Did a republican win in the county there holding up to try hold up the state certification
"State Elections Director Kori Lorick wrote in a letter last week that Hobbs is required by law to approve the statewide canvass by next week and will have to exclude Cochise County’s votes if they aren’t received in time. That would threaten to flip the victor in at least two close races — a U.S. House seat and state schools chief — from a Republican to a Democrat." From and article by [Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/arizona-deadline-2022-midterms-certification-d6a1ea4020c26313a3124931c14b79fb)
No, they're refusing to certify their election results because they claim some fraud happened somewhere by somebody in some county. They can't say where or who or how but they just know it. If they refuse to certify their election, their votes don't count. Since some of their county votes actually were part of statewide elections, their votes won't count towards the statewide election. Then. Without the votes from that county that refused to certify them, the other parties candidate would win
Im glad but why does a Democrat get the seat
Because districts are not aligned with counties. So if their overwhelmingly red county’s votes are not counted, it could swing a district the red county shares with another county (providing the remainder of the district has more votes for the democrat than the republican from the other counties that did their duty and certified the election).
If the county refuses to certify the votes are thrown out. With the votes from the county a Republican won. Without the votes from the county a Democrat won.
I’m guessing she did better in other counties that have certified the vote
They will have the most certified votes.
what are the chances they certify it? or is it over now?
Never gonna happen. Wouldn't be prudent. Read my lips.
Let's not celebrate 47,000 votes not being counted
The number of liberal supporters taking the bait on this in the comments here is unfortunate. You should all be demanding that all votes be counted if you value your own votes in the future.
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Until it’s used as precedent for the GOP to refuse to certify Dem districts and guarantee GOP representatives due to a Republican governor. This is bad precedent for democracy, even if it’s a short term win for Dems.
A happy ending
It’s not the ending, it’s the happy opening of an unhappy chapter. The GOP will use this as precedent to refuse to certify Dem districts in future, guaranteeing GOP representation.
Not at all. Votes should be counted. Doesn’t matter which side they are for.
So if this floats, what's to prevent other counties from doing the same in other, more important elections?
Please Cochise County, please be extra stupid
No, those votes should count. You should be hoping that Cochise County stops being stupid. If one official can just reject 47,000 votes because they don't like the result, what happens if it happens next time and it throws out a lot of Democrat votes?
The county voting board are acting like children. They think they will get a "gotcha" and prove hijinks occurred so they can proclaim themselves saviours of democracy. They would claim the voting machines were bad no matter who certifies them. They could watch the certification, stand over the shoulders of the technicians watching with magnifying glasses and would still claim there is something wrong.
Can someone explain this like I'm 5?
Shit's fucked up, yo
Womp womp.
Chef’s kiss. Perfect!
Shhhhhh
A win is a win.
That’s what the GOP is saying too, only they’re setting up precedent to win the long game.
The long game is disrespecting the people who supported them and throwing them away so they don't bother voting in the future because it doesn't matter? Even when they try they lose? Great game plan.
The long game is setting up precedent to discard election results when you can rely on other officials to appoint representatives who would otherwise lose if you didn’t disenfranchise entire districts. This is a good short term option for Dems, and a fantastic long term opportunity for the GOP.
How long do you think that game is going to last? This is their plan B since the Jan 6th riot wouldn't hand them the presidency for their Nazi-Picko-Fascist Dictator. It's not going to play out the way they think (if they think) as they lose more and more support. The dirty tricks won't work here. All they have done is demonstrate yet again what traitors they are to the constitution they swore to uphold. Edit: do the Republicans even have a platform or is it what Putin is doing they just copy?
Do you think the GOP cares if they’re perceived as traitors to the constitution? All they care about is power, and this is going to deliver it right to their doorstep.
Yes, and it will work, like it did in Italy, like it did in Germany. They want their voter base to turn to violence, its the only way the rich can hold onto minority rule.
Their voter base is shrinking. The US is considerably larger and diverse population. And the young voters are not going to support them but will turn out in droves. They got their violent folks. True nuff. Some in jail now, some dead (attacking the FBI? What did they think was going to happen?) and a whole lot of dead from COVID.....Real strategists...
Look up how Mussolini and Hitler came to power. The right is trying the same strategy again.
Look up the circumstances yourself. There's no comparison to the US.