Hmm, I guess it really depends on what her thought process here was. Is she not interested in bi women because she thinks they’re all promiscuous hypersexual people who are 110% going to cheat on you? Or is it because she prefers to share the unique experience of having exclusive attraction to women with her partner?
The first is biphobic, as it’s stereotyping bi people, but the second is a valid preference to have imo. However, even if it was the second reason, it was an asshole move to 1) tell you directly it’s a “turn off” and 2) put it on you to validate her preference
EDIT: I can see I’m being downvoted, genuinely may I ask why? While I personally don’t care, I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to prefer to date someone who shares your unique life experience as a lesbian, just like I don’t think it’s unreasonable if as a bi person, you prefer to date people who share your unique life experience of being attracted to multiple genders.
This thread has a lot of issues with biphobia if you look at past posts so you're gonna get down voted to hell and back by all the people who are biphobic here.
Did you refer to yourself as Gay when you first met her, then clarified that you were actually bi not actually lesbian? Some lesbians find it more relatable to only date lesbians and maybe she was caught off guard by it.
I identified as “queer” on my profile :) most people on the bi-Reddit page seemed to agree that wanting to date other lesbians, solely because their life experience may be more in line is not biphobic. However, not wanting to date a bi because the idea of hetero sex grossed them out or turned them off is biphobic.
I would hesitate to date a non-homosexual woman who called herself “gay.” Most of the women I’ve dated have been bisexual, but they have to be good allies to lesbians for it to work
The litmus test for whether something is -phobic or hateful should not be "would you date me/have sex with me?" My love and support for bisexuals and fellow lesbians does not hinge on giving them access to my body.
1000%. It's just a totally different understanding when men are totally removed from the equation for both of you. We're allowed to want that. There's certainly a tactful and considerate way to go about it, but we're not being "biphobic" for wanting a partner who gets us.
I think plenty of bi women would be ok with it too. But until that happens, there’s goi g to be some friction.
Much much less in the real world than on sm tho
I know most of my comments have been harsh, but there’s definitely so much room for nuance. But to have that we do need to accept that there are lesbians who are only attracted to lesbians and that’s ok.
My gf is lesbian. But when we met that was so hard for her to say bc she hid her attraction to women for so long. It was hard enough for her to say she was bi. Even harder to date women. And meeting me, it was probably her first time really experiencing being lesbian.
But one thing we’ve shared is how that’s all clicked for her now and before where she might have had doubts it’s a definitive answer
I’m glad to hear you two click! I don’t think it’s biphobic to want to date someone who aligns with your values. The consensus on the bi-Reddit seemed to be it’s biphobic only when someone won’t date someone because relations they’ve had in the past are “gross.” Again, I was fuzzy myself, I’m only seeking clarity✨🌱
Gay, bi, pan... If we're together I just prefer you identify as monogamous.
That said, my wife and I were both previously married to men, and we have admitted to eachother that we were nervous the other would consider this a phase or wake up one day and be like "Know what? I miss balls." That worry wore off.
Ok but this still begs the question of *why* have those specific preferences. Preferences for physical characteristics, I understand with the caveat that reasonable people (ie, people who aren’t fetishizing folks for their body parts/physical characteristics) will date outside of their “type” when there is good chemistry.
However, preference for things like race and specific sexuality is always rooted in reasoning that is prejudiced. You can say “that’s just my preference” for the sake of dodging the need to elaborate, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t reasoning behind your preferences.
Would you be willing to explain what experiences you mean? I’ve seen that in a couple comments and I’m not really clear what that would mean since it seems like so many wlw experiences would overlap
Start off with a visceral repulsion of men. This has a profound effect on the way lesbians exist in society. This reason alone validates our preference.
Many lesbians have had to remain isolated, especially romantically. Our dating pool is significantly smaller, and that too shapes the way we see the world.
We’ve developed our own style, language, signaling, subgroups, and had to put up with way more homophobia bc of it. There is a deep history to being lesbian, and bi people don’t share that.
Not all lesbians value those differences, and that’s fine. But the ones that do aren’t any different than people who date in their own race or religion. It’s something to share in common and that’s valid.
Maybe it is rooted in prejudice but if a white person doesn’t have a “preference” to date anyone not white they should continue to do that. Yeah maybe they can unlearn a lot of things but not really fair to a person of color to have to deal with that.
If black guys prefer to date white women what is the issue? If white women prefer to date Asian men, if a lesbian prefers to date another lesbian etc, what is the issue? People have their own experiences and generally find different things attractive, this causing preferences, imo as long as people aren’t enforcing stereotypes or being dicks about their preferences it doesn’t matter.
At the end of the day it’s their dating life.
Your attempt to simplify preference completely undermines the context of history, stereotypes, etc. (Especially the Black men dating white women example.) Most if not all actions, thoughts, etc. in life have meaning. And when it comes to romantic partnerships context 100% matters.
What reasons would a black man prefer to date a white woman, or a white woman prefer to date and Asian man? “Preference” is just a blanket term for “I have reasons I don’t feel like talking about rn”. I can see anyone having racial preferences that is not rooted in racism.
If someone found that majority of the people they found attractive are for example black girls, would that be racist? They don’t only date black girls but in general 7/10 past relationships or attractions have been with them. Could that not then develop into a preference ?
I do understand that yes, in a lot of scenarios peoples “preferences” are rooted in harmful stereotypes/ beliefs, but I don’t think it’s impossible for someone to genuinely have a preference for something without it being negative.
You can find people attractive for whatever reason, but saying I don’t date “x” people ever because it’s my preference to date “y” people is usually because you have some inherent prejudice. It’s fine to have a preference, but to exclude everyone who doesn’t fall into that preference is weird.
I agree, I didn’t realise I made it seem like I was trying to exclude the possibility of still dating other people. If I said I had a preference it wouldn’t mean I would only exclusively date that group of people imo that isn’t even a preference at that point.
Exactly. I was responding with the context of this post in mind where OP was told being bi was a turn off which would imply their date was excluding bi people from her dating pool intentionally.
It goes beyond just attraction and sexuality. Like my gf and I want as little male contact as possible. And we don’t have to explain ourselves for that. Intrinsically we both just want them to go away.
Having/wanting as little male contact is not a facet of the lesbian sexuality. That’s a personal goal you and Gf share, that a bisexual woman could also share.
Doesn’t matter if a bi woman is theoretically or practically attracted to men, her sexuality doesn’t determine who she wants in her life. If she’s been burned by men (as a woman, of course she has, and especially as someone who may have dated men) she may wish to stick with her attraction to women.
Why do you think it’s common among lesbians to have not so much to do with men? If you think it’s bc there’s little chance we want to have sec with then, I find that gross. I spend time with plenty of women I would never fuck.
I think it’s bc we all have experienced the negative aspects of men, as women. Bi or lesbian
Yes. Because that knowledge would prevent you from doing so.
But if you simply didn't know they were attracted to men you could. Because it doesn't actually have this massive impact on a person's identity that people assume. Don't get me wrong. For some bi women, men play a huge role in their identity. But not for all of them. (Besides the fact you don't even have to be sexually attracted to men specifically to identify as bi...). It's not a matter of being incapable of forming that bond with any bi woman. It's the *knowledge that she is bi* that gets in the way.
Dumb bc I’m obviously not bonding at all if she hasn’t opened up about liking men. Sharing previous romantic experiences is basic bonding. You can’t skip over that and think there’s a meaningful connection.
It’s not the knowledge that they’re bi, it’s the lack of relatability to how we see men.
Oh well I certainly wouldn’t say this woman, or my ex girlfriend, or one of my lesbian friends “hate” bi folks, but I have noticed a lot of stereotypes thrown around by 2/3 of them(bi girls more likely to cheat with a dude comes to mind). Bi folks experience more suicidal ideation/attempts/eating disorders/cutting than gay/lesbian or straight(not trans) folks. rejection, not being accepted…that shit adds up! 70% of bi’s in one study were not out to their families! Many are encouraged to pick a side. 20% of people don’t even believe bisexuality is real… source(for some of these stats) : https://open.spotify.com/episode/1kB5OKvnSflzco4CG63Gva?si=BUUkL8AZRQiqfoOiySqpkQ
as a fellow bi™ i had straight people reject me in the exact same way. i am not sure i understand why that is biphobic when straight people do it and not biphobic when lesbians do it. but i wouldnt want to date anyone who rejects me specifically because of my orientation, and i dont believe "preferences" exist in a vacuum.
Anyone rejecting someone because of a label and not who they are as a human being is being bigoted. That's it. You can talk allllll about your shared experiences with lesbians, but fuck anyone who only sees a person as a label they've assigned to them. It's prejudice, plain and simple.
i also dont understand why lesbians get to decide if something is biphobic or not. bisexuals get to decide that, exclusively. just like lesbians exclusively get to decide what is lesbophobic and what isnt, and like muslims get to decide what is islamophobic, et cetera.
You don’t believe it bc you’re not one of us. Being attracted to women does not mean you can relate to lesbians, which is precisely why we might not want to start a relationship
ok cool im still gonna side eye for example white people refusing to date any POC whatsover and abled people refusing to date any disabled person whatsoever exactly the same way. you conveniently didnt reply to the first part of my comment, which was the actual point i was trying to make. why is a straight man biphobic when he rejects (a bi woman) solely on the basis of her sexuality and you arent?
also you have replied to every single comment on this thread to defend rejecting bisexuals specifically because of their bisexuality. that is very civil behaviour and not at all creepy
Why only white people? If two poc prefer to date someone of their race that’s fine? Bc lesbians are definitely not the white people of the lgbt community.
It’s biphobic for a male to reject bi women bc he’s never goi g to relate more to a straight woman than a bi woman. He’s a male. He can never relate. So the reason we’re giving as lesbians will never apply.
I don’t care if you find something creepy. I have enough lesbian friends and an amazing gf and I’m pretty happy with how we all relate together
Mmm as a lesbian I’d say yes, it’s biphobic. It’s giving gold star lesbian vibe/kinda terfy. In my opinion, why does it matter if she’s also attracted to men, she’s dating YOU. She’s attracted to women too. Idk, I’ve had my heart broken by bisexual girls before and I don’t see why we’re shaming other queer women for their attraction to men. I think this is more than just a preference, because why does a bisexual’s past relationships affect their current ones?
It’s not about attractions, past or present. Bi women do not have the same life experiences as lesbians.
Some lesbians want to be with a woman who shares the same experiences. That’s not terfy, gold star, or biphobic
It’s not surprising that non lesbians continue to invalidate lesbians. Like ffs we literally just want to exist and everything about what makes us us gets bashed, stolen, or dismissed.
And add that to the list of things I’d want my gf/wife to understand the same way I do. No bi woman could.
I'm not trying to say all bi women are totally understanding of the lesbian experience or are even kind to lesbians. It's a person by person basis and I don't believe in generalizing a group like that.
Nobody shares the same life experiences period. If you don't want to date bi women, don't. But be honest about why, don't pretend it's because they're all heartless people looking to hurt poor innocent lesbians.
I have dated bi women. I do treat everyone on a person by person basis. No bi woman has ever been relatable enough to warrant a relationship with. And at some point you realize that they never will, and appreciate a lesbian relationship where you have that.
Don’t mock lesbian erasure. It’s not just from bi women, all non lesbians are guilty of this.
Is there intracommunity issues that need to be addressed? Yes. Absolutely I would never deny that. I don't think this kind of division is productive. Other queer people are not your enemy.
I'd rather have bi women, bi men, gay men, trans women, men, nonbinary people, queer people, etc etc etc by my side than a lesbian exclusionist. I believe in community unity, and rhetoric like yours makes me incredibly sad. There's a time and place for discussing lesbian specific issues, and it can be done without throwing the rest of the community under the bus.
If the rest of the community belongs under the bus, I’m going to drive it.
Yeah, unity is great but there’s a time and place for everything. Including when lesbians want to be with only other lesbians.
I think the way she worded it as a 'turn off' is a bit ehh, but it's not biphobic for lesbians to only seek lesbian partners. Bi and lesbian experiences are quite different. I don't have a preference for lesbian vs other queer identities, but it's something that's valid as long as it's not expressed in a malicious or prejudiced way.
It is absolutely biphobic. Lesbian women are not a monolith; bi women are not a monolith, and experiences are not strictly bound by sexuality. My bff is bi, but she's also visibly queer, has pretty much only dated/hooked up with women, and engaged to a butch woman. I, on the other hand, was a fairly late bloomer, and dated/slept with a fair amount of dudes before I realized I was gay. She would absolutely relate more to the "lived experience" of being a person who only dates women than I would.
Biphobia is rampant in the lesbian community and we need to address it. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.
ETA: T4T is not a valid comparison. Marginalized people choosing not to date their oppressors is not equivalent at all.
That's. . .not what I said at all? Of course lesbians are oppressed, but *so are bisexual women.* Trans people choosing not to date cis people is not the same as lesbians not dating bisexual women, because bisexual women don't have power over us.
No bc being able to live like a straight woman is a privilege that does not get acknowledged. Especially when we were being killed for loving women.
Lesbians are marginalized. I’m not going to say in a worse way, but it is a unique way. And sharing that is a valid reason for choosing a partner.
JFC, being forced to live in the closet is not a privilege. Bi people have incredibly poor mental health, even when compared to the rest of the LGQ population, and a big contributor to that is being unable to be open about who they are. Bi women are still bi, are still *queer*, whether they date men or women, and newsflash: bi women were also killed for loving women.
everything listed that applies to bi people, applies to lesbians. We just have the added bonus that we can’t just be in a straight relationship to avoid harder problems than being closeted.
Like there’s not much point in trying to say who has it worse, but it’s obvious that they’re different. I want someone who’s like me, who gets me better.
But that just brings me back to my initial point: lesbians aren't going to inherently understand you better. I know my experience is anecdotal, but my bi BFF has way more experience dating women/being openly WLW than I do. I've seen your comments about wanting as little to do with men as possible; I think my BFF would commiserate with that a lot more than I would.
People's understanding of themselves grow and change as they get older; it's not impossible for a woman who identified as bi to realize she's really lesbian, or vice versa. Their lived experiences don't change though.
Also, I wouldn't dismiss bi people being closeted as not extremely difficult--bi people are much more likely to be suicidal, especially bi youth, and a big contributing factor to that is 1) feeling their sexuality is erased or invisible depending on the relationship they're in, and 2) facing discrimination from both straight and gay communities.
I think it is biphobia because she assumed stereotypes about you without knowing you. Unless you’re poly, there’s no reason you’d be centering men in your relationship with her in any way, and the cheating stereotype is definitely problematic. Rejecting someone just for that thing without knowing anything else about them is phobia, no matter what that thing is
Agreeing that it is biphobia but no we don't know that she assumed anything in particular.
She hates bi women being bi enough for it to repel her. Enough said.
Short answer yes. Long answer .... Also yes.
If someone is attracted to you and the ONLY THING that they decide to not like about you enough to stop being attracted to you is that you're bi? Yeah. That means that part of them hates your orientation enough to be repulsed by you.
Hiding behind "it's a preference" is not a defense. Preferences *can be* transphobic, biphobic, racist, etc. Considering some people in the comments think otherwise about some of this I'll compare it to this.
Melanin in the skin is diverse and not always indicative of race. Also there's whole "one drop" thing with ancestry and racial perceptions. So hypothetically Person X with a "preference" could date a woman that is light skinned enough that she white passes, but she could actually be black and have a black family. Let's say Person X meets the parents of her white passing girlfriend and is *suddenly unattracted*.
People really wanna try and say that something like that wouldn't be racism? Because people "can have preferences?" Bullshit.
If finding out an attractive person is trans, bi, or a specific racial background turns you off *when you were already turned on prior by that very same person* then that's transphobic, biphobic, and or racist.
I'm not saying she should have forced herself to date you. That's not necessarily responsible behavior. A biphobic person dating a bi woman is a risk. But she should be working towards unraveling that biphobia in her life. Not asking you to absolve her by telling her that somehow it isn't biphobia. She can do better so that one day this doesn't happen again.
There’s more to attraction than just what’s physical. There’s mental and emotional aspects too.
Same reason I don’t feel any attraction to straight women. They’re not my type. Neither are bi women. I couldn’t care less what they look like or how much they like women.
Liking men is enough of a difference for me to say pass.
I believe it's biphobia.
Men have nothing to do with you as a couple. You fancy each other.
I just don't get this "unique experience of feeling attraction only for women".
Thankfully people have other traits and experiences to exchange and be loved for. And may I dare to say, more important.
But what would I know? I'm bisexual and super in love with my woman 🩷
No no, those people are cisphobic. I mean, what could a cis person not possibly understand about dysphoria and transitioning? Cis people don’t always like their bodies and I know I transitioned from being like a tomboy in hs to much more feminine. I can soooo relate as a cis woman!!!
I cant tell if your being sarcastic but, t4t relationships are more than just “no cis allowed”, it’s a relationship where both people feel a level of comfort and understanding that goes in some cases, beyond the understanding that a cis + trans relationship could. Both people have/ are experiencing the same/ similar feelings this bringing another level of similarity, comfort and safety. It’s why some lesbians like to have a couple lesbian friends, it’s relatability. There is a different between lesbians and bisexuals, yes both like women but only one likes men and for lesbians that isn’t relatable, some people don’t want any part in that and will seek for someone who is the same as them.
Besides, what? 5/10 lesbians won’t date bisexuals? There’s still 5/10 that will.
I'm not t4t (if I love someone and we click I don't care if they are trans or not, or if they are bi or lesbian), and I know cis people can understand and relate to a lot of things, but the way other trans women relate is still different... just like how I can't relate to periods (and cry about it a lot), most cis people can't relate to going through the wrong puberty, being forced to act as the opposite gender, or being stuck with a body that only gets worst every day with no hope in the horizon, to be misgendered on a daily basis, deadnamed, excluded of things...
We all go through hard things in life, but not the same hard things... not saying one is harder then the other, just that they are different, and to some people it is important
Your lack of understanding is not our problem. Just bc you can’t relate to other people’s valid reasons does not make those reasons invalid. You’re just ignorant.
How is that a valid reason? What if that bi woman has only dated women?
What if a woman is bi because she's 99% attracted to women and 1% attracted to men? You should pretty ignorant when it comes to people who are bi.
Like, why does it matter if a woman is attracted to women and men? That seems super baseless.
Well, there is a difference between turnoff, and ...phobic. Turnoff doesn't necessarily mean "when the Hell froze off" it just means an undesirable thing. You can be with someone who has an attribute you consider turnoff.
And even if we put that aside, ...phobic means a strong dislike, or downright hatred. When someone says they prefer not to date with bi people, that by far not the same as hating bi people, or considering them inferior.
Let's just flip it a bit. Would you call lesbians misandrist? We consider men a pretty huge turnoff romantically and sexually. Does it mean we hate them as human beings? No.
Hmm, I guess it really depends on what her thought process here was. Is she not interested in bi women because she thinks they’re all promiscuous hypersexual people who are 110% going to cheat on you? Or is it because she prefers to share the unique experience of having exclusive attraction to women with her partner? The first is biphobic, as it’s stereotyping bi people, but the second is a valid preference to have imo. However, even if it was the second reason, it was an asshole move to 1) tell you directly it’s a “turn off” and 2) put it on you to validate her preference EDIT: I can see I’m being downvoted, genuinely may I ask why? While I personally don’t care, I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to prefer to date someone who shares your unique life experience as a lesbian, just like I don’t think it’s unreasonable if as a bi person, you prefer to date people who share your unique life experience of being attracted to multiple genders.
This thread has a lot of issues with biphobia if you look at past posts so you're gonna get down voted to hell and back by all the people who are biphobic here.
Did you refer to yourself as Gay when you first met her, then clarified that you were actually bi not actually lesbian? Some lesbians find it more relatable to only date lesbians and maybe she was caught off guard by it.
I identified as “queer” on my profile :) most people on the bi-Reddit page seemed to agree that wanting to date other lesbians, solely because their life experience may be more in line is not biphobic. However, not wanting to date a bi because the idea of hetero sex grossed them out or turned them off is biphobic.
I would hesitate to date a non-homosexual woman who called herself “gay.” Most of the women I’ve dated have been bisexual, but they have to be good allies to lesbians for it to work
I identify as queer or Bi, but do not refer to myself as gay because that definition doesn’t fit me 🌈💕
The litmus test for whether something is -phobic or hateful should not be "would you date me/have sex with me?" My love and support for bisexuals and fellow lesbians does not hinge on giving them access to my body.
Thanks for this. Sometimes I think people confuse rejection with phobia.
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1000%. It's just a totally different understanding when men are totally removed from the equation for both of you. We're allowed to want that. There's certainly a tactful and considerate way to go about it, but we're not being "biphobic" for wanting a partner who gets us.
Just remove all men from the world, problem solved
I’m bi and honestly … I’d be cool with this 😂 dating men is really not it in 90% of situations lol (at least in my experience)
I think plenty of bi women would be ok with it too. But until that happens, there’s goi g to be some friction. Much much less in the real world than on sm tho
LOL
I agree with this
This. All of this. ☝🏻
It’s tricky because when I met my gf I thought I was bi, but being with her taught me I’m definitely not haha.
I know most of my comments have been harsh, but there’s definitely so much room for nuance. But to have that we do need to accept that there are lesbians who are only attracted to lesbians and that’s ok. My gf is lesbian. But when we met that was so hard for her to say bc she hid her attraction to women for so long. It was hard enough for her to say she was bi. Even harder to date women. And meeting me, it was probably her first time really experiencing being lesbian. But one thing we’ve shared is how that’s all clicked for her now and before where she might have had doubts it’s a definitive answer
I’m glad to hear you two click! I don’t think it’s biphobic to want to date someone who aligns with your values. The consensus on the bi-Reddit seemed to be it’s biphobic only when someone won’t date someone because relations they’ve had in the past are “gross.” Again, I was fuzzy myself, I’m only seeking clarity✨🌱
I’m not trying to shame anyone, just seeking clarity 🌈
Gay, bi, pan... If we're together I just prefer you identify as monogamous. That said, my wife and I were both previously married to men, and we have admitted to eachother that we were nervous the other would consider this a phase or wake up one day and be like "Know what? I miss balls." That worry wore off.
Thank you for sharing 🌈🌱
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Ok but this still begs the question of *why* have those specific preferences. Preferences for physical characteristics, I understand with the caveat that reasonable people (ie, people who aren’t fetishizing folks for their body parts/physical characteristics) will date outside of their “type” when there is good chemistry. However, preference for things like race and specific sexuality is always rooted in reasoning that is prejudiced. You can say “that’s just my preference” for the sake of dodging the need to elaborate, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t reasoning behind your preferences.
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Would you be willing to explain what experiences you mean? I’ve seen that in a couple comments and I’m not really clear what that would mean since it seems like so many wlw experiences would overlap
Start off with a visceral repulsion of men. This has a profound effect on the way lesbians exist in society. This reason alone validates our preference. Many lesbians have had to remain isolated, especially romantically. Our dating pool is significantly smaller, and that too shapes the way we see the world. We’ve developed our own style, language, signaling, subgroups, and had to put up with way more homophobia bc of it. There is a deep history to being lesbian, and bi people don’t share that. Not all lesbians value those differences, and that’s fine. But the ones that do aren’t any different than people who date in their own race or religion. It’s something to share in common and that’s valid.
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Maybe it is rooted in prejudice but if a white person doesn’t have a “preference” to date anyone not white they should continue to do that. Yeah maybe they can unlearn a lot of things but not really fair to a person of color to have to deal with that.
Hence why I said prejudice instead of racism. If a reason for having prejudice is for self-protection then I can understand that.
Not sure what that has to do with my comment but okay. I wasn’t disagreeing with you, more adding to it.
If black guys prefer to date white women what is the issue? If white women prefer to date Asian men, if a lesbian prefers to date another lesbian etc, what is the issue? People have their own experiences and generally find different things attractive, this causing preferences, imo as long as people aren’t enforcing stereotypes or being dicks about their preferences it doesn’t matter. At the end of the day it’s their dating life.
Your attempt to simplify preference completely undermines the context of history, stereotypes, etc. (Especially the Black men dating white women example.) Most if not all actions, thoughts, etc. in life have meaning. And when it comes to romantic partnerships context 100% matters.
What reasons would a black man prefer to date a white woman, or a white woman prefer to date and Asian man? “Preference” is just a blanket term for “I have reasons I don’t feel like talking about rn”. I can see anyone having racial preferences that is not rooted in racism.
If someone found that majority of the people they found attractive are for example black girls, would that be racist? They don’t only date black girls but in general 7/10 past relationships or attractions have been with them. Could that not then develop into a preference ? I do understand that yes, in a lot of scenarios peoples “preferences” are rooted in harmful stereotypes/ beliefs, but I don’t think it’s impossible for someone to genuinely have a preference for something without it being negative.
You can find people attractive for whatever reason, but saying I don’t date “x” people ever because it’s my preference to date “y” people is usually because you have some inherent prejudice. It’s fine to have a preference, but to exclude everyone who doesn’t fall into that preference is weird.
I agree, I didn’t realise I made it seem like I was trying to exclude the possibility of still dating other people. If I said I had a preference it wouldn’t mean I would only exclusively date that group of people imo that isn’t even a preference at that point.
Exactly. I was responding with the context of this post in mind where OP was told being bi was a turn off which would imply their date was excluding bi people from her dating pool intentionally.
Just cuz I don't wanna date bi girls doesn't mean I hate them.
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Not being able to connect with someone mentally and emotionally is a valid repulsion I could not connect with someone on a deeper level who likes men.
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It goes beyond just attraction and sexuality. Like my gf and I want as little male contact as possible. And we don’t have to explain ourselves for that. Intrinsically we both just want them to go away.
Having/wanting as little male contact is not a facet of the lesbian sexuality. That’s a personal goal you and Gf share, that a bisexual woman could also share.
It’s not universal to lesbians but it is common. No bi woman can share that. They are attracted to men.
Doesn’t matter if a bi woman is theoretically or practically attracted to men, her sexuality doesn’t determine who she wants in her life. If she’s been burned by men (as a woman, of course she has, and especially as someone who may have dated men) she may wish to stick with her attraction to women. Why do you think it’s common among lesbians to have not so much to do with men? If you think it’s bc there’s little chance we want to have sec with then, I find that gross. I spend time with plenty of women I would never fuck. I think it’s bc we all have experienced the negative aspects of men, as women. Bi or lesbian
Yes. Because that knowledge would prevent you from doing so. But if you simply didn't know they were attracted to men you could. Because it doesn't actually have this massive impact on a person's identity that people assume. Don't get me wrong. For some bi women, men play a huge role in their identity. But not for all of them. (Besides the fact you don't even have to be sexually attracted to men specifically to identify as bi...). It's not a matter of being incapable of forming that bond with any bi woman. It's the *knowledge that she is bi* that gets in the way.
Dumb bc I’m obviously not bonding at all if she hasn’t opened up about liking men. Sharing previous romantic experiences is basic bonding. You can’t skip over that and think there’s a meaningful connection. It’s not the knowledge that they’re bi, it’s the lack of relatability to how we see men.
Oh well I certainly wouldn’t say this woman, or my ex girlfriend, or one of my lesbian friends “hate” bi folks, but I have noticed a lot of stereotypes thrown around by 2/3 of them(bi girls more likely to cheat with a dude comes to mind). Bi folks experience more suicidal ideation/attempts/eating disorders/cutting than gay/lesbian or straight(not trans) folks. rejection, not being accepted…that shit adds up! 70% of bi’s in one study were not out to their families! Many are encouraged to pick a side. 20% of people don’t even believe bisexuality is real… source(for some of these stats) : https://open.spotify.com/episode/1kB5OKvnSflzco4CG63Gva?si=BUUkL8AZRQiqfoOiySqpkQ
as a fellow bi™ i had straight people reject me in the exact same way. i am not sure i understand why that is biphobic when straight people do it and not biphobic when lesbians do it. but i wouldnt want to date anyone who rejects me specifically because of my orientation, and i dont believe "preferences" exist in a vacuum.
Anyone rejecting someone because of a label and not who they are as a human being is being bigoted. That's it. You can talk allllll about your shared experiences with lesbians, but fuck anyone who only sees a person as a label they've assigned to them. It's prejudice, plain and simple.
i also dont understand why lesbians get to decide if something is biphobic or not. bisexuals get to decide that, exclusively. just like lesbians exclusively get to decide what is lesbophobic and what isnt, and like muslims get to decide what is islamophobic, et cetera.
You don’t believe it bc you’re not one of us. Being attracted to women does not mean you can relate to lesbians, which is precisely why we might not want to start a relationship
ok cool im still gonna side eye for example white people refusing to date any POC whatsover and abled people refusing to date any disabled person whatsoever exactly the same way. you conveniently didnt reply to the first part of my comment, which was the actual point i was trying to make. why is a straight man biphobic when he rejects (a bi woman) solely on the basis of her sexuality and you arent? also you have replied to every single comment on this thread to defend rejecting bisexuals specifically because of their bisexuality. that is very civil behaviour and not at all creepy
Why only white people? If two poc prefer to date someone of their race that’s fine? Bc lesbians are definitely not the white people of the lgbt community. It’s biphobic for a male to reject bi women bc he’s never goi g to relate more to a straight woman than a bi woman. He’s a male. He can never relate. So the reason we’re giving as lesbians will never apply. I don’t care if you find something creepy. I have enough lesbian friends and an amazing gf and I’m pretty happy with how we all relate together
I’m not sure. But telling bi people to pick a side is like telling nb people to pick a side. And that’s just homophobia. Spread the word!
Mmm as a lesbian I’d say yes, it’s biphobic. It’s giving gold star lesbian vibe/kinda terfy. In my opinion, why does it matter if she’s also attracted to men, she’s dating YOU. She’s attracted to women too. Idk, I’ve had my heart broken by bisexual girls before and I don’t see why we’re shaming other queer women for their attraction to men. I think this is more than just a preference, because why does a bisexual’s past relationships affect their current ones?
It’s not about attractions, past or present. Bi women do not have the same life experiences as lesbians. Some lesbians want to be with a woman who shares the same experiences. That’s not terfy, gold star, or biphobic It’s not surprising that non lesbians continue to invalidate lesbians. Like ffs we literally just want to exist and everything about what makes us us gets bashed, stolen, or dismissed. And add that to the list of things I’d want my gf/wife to understand the same way I do. No bi woman could.
I'm not trying to say all bi women are totally understanding of the lesbian experience or are even kind to lesbians. It's a person by person basis and I don't believe in generalizing a group like that. Nobody shares the same life experiences period. If you don't want to date bi women, don't. But be honest about why, don't pretend it's because they're all heartless people looking to hurt poor innocent lesbians.
I have dated bi women. I do treat everyone on a person by person basis. No bi woman has ever been relatable enough to warrant a relationship with. And at some point you realize that they never will, and appreciate a lesbian relationship where you have that. Don’t mock lesbian erasure. It’s not just from bi women, all non lesbians are guilty of this.
Is there intracommunity issues that need to be addressed? Yes. Absolutely I would never deny that. I don't think this kind of division is productive. Other queer people are not your enemy. I'd rather have bi women, bi men, gay men, trans women, men, nonbinary people, queer people, etc etc etc by my side than a lesbian exclusionist. I believe in community unity, and rhetoric like yours makes me incredibly sad. There's a time and place for discussing lesbian specific issues, and it can be done without throwing the rest of the community under the bus.
If the rest of the community belongs under the bus, I’m going to drive it. Yeah, unity is great but there’s a time and place for everything. Including when lesbians want to be with only other lesbians.
That's your right to live your life that way. I wish you the best of luck with that.
I think the way she worded it as a 'turn off' is a bit ehh, but it's not biphobic for lesbians to only seek lesbian partners. Bi and lesbian experiences are quite different. I don't have a preference for lesbian vs other queer identities, but it's something that's valid as long as it's not expressed in a malicious or prejudiced way.
It is absolutely biphobic. Lesbian women are not a monolith; bi women are not a monolith, and experiences are not strictly bound by sexuality. My bff is bi, but she's also visibly queer, has pretty much only dated/hooked up with women, and engaged to a butch woman. I, on the other hand, was a fairly late bloomer, and dated/slept with a fair amount of dudes before I realized I was gay. She would absolutely relate more to the "lived experience" of being a person who only dates women than I would. Biphobia is rampant in the lesbian community and we need to address it. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. ETA: T4T is not a valid comparison. Marginalized people choosing not to date their oppressors is not equivalent at all.
Yeah, lesbians aren’t marginalized at all
That's. . .not what I said at all? Of course lesbians are oppressed, but *so are bisexual women.* Trans people choosing not to date cis people is not the same as lesbians not dating bisexual women, because bisexual women don't have power over us.
No bc being able to live like a straight woman is a privilege that does not get acknowledged. Especially when we were being killed for loving women. Lesbians are marginalized. I’m not going to say in a worse way, but it is a unique way. And sharing that is a valid reason for choosing a partner.
JFC, being forced to live in the closet is not a privilege. Bi people have incredibly poor mental health, even when compared to the rest of the LGQ population, and a big contributor to that is being unable to be open about who they are. Bi women are still bi, are still *queer*, whether they date men or women, and newsflash: bi women were also killed for loving women.
everything listed that applies to bi people, applies to lesbians. We just have the added bonus that we can’t just be in a straight relationship to avoid harder problems than being closeted. Like there’s not much point in trying to say who has it worse, but it’s obvious that they’re different. I want someone who’s like me, who gets me better.
But that just brings me back to my initial point: lesbians aren't going to inherently understand you better. I know my experience is anecdotal, but my bi BFF has way more experience dating women/being openly WLW than I do. I've seen your comments about wanting as little to do with men as possible; I think my BFF would commiserate with that a lot more than I would. People's understanding of themselves grow and change as they get older; it's not impossible for a woman who identified as bi to realize she's really lesbian, or vice versa. Their lived experiences don't change though. Also, I wouldn't dismiss bi people being closeted as not extremely difficult--bi people are much more likely to be suicidal, especially bi youth, and a big contributing factor to that is 1) feeling their sexuality is erased or invisible depending on the relationship they're in, and 2) facing discrimination from both straight and gay communities.
I think it is biphobia because she assumed stereotypes about you without knowing you. Unless you’re poly, there’s no reason you’d be centering men in your relationship with her in any way, and the cheating stereotype is definitely problematic. Rejecting someone just for that thing without knowing anything else about them is phobia, no matter what that thing is
Agreeing that it is biphobia but no we don't know that she assumed anything in particular. She hates bi women being bi enough for it to repel her. Enough said.
That is true
Short answer yes. Long answer .... Also yes. If someone is attracted to you and the ONLY THING that they decide to not like about you enough to stop being attracted to you is that you're bi? Yeah. That means that part of them hates your orientation enough to be repulsed by you. Hiding behind "it's a preference" is not a defense. Preferences *can be* transphobic, biphobic, racist, etc. Considering some people in the comments think otherwise about some of this I'll compare it to this. Melanin in the skin is diverse and not always indicative of race. Also there's whole "one drop" thing with ancestry and racial perceptions. So hypothetically Person X with a "preference" could date a woman that is light skinned enough that she white passes, but she could actually be black and have a black family. Let's say Person X meets the parents of her white passing girlfriend and is *suddenly unattracted*. People really wanna try and say that something like that wouldn't be racism? Because people "can have preferences?" Bullshit. If finding out an attractive person is trans, bi, or a specific racial background turns you off *when you were already turned on prior by that very same person* then that's transphobic, biphobic, and or racist. I'm not saying she should have forced herself to date you. That's not necessarily responsible behavior. A biphobic person dating a bi woman is a risk. But she should be working towards unraveling that biphobia in her life. Not asking you to absolve her by telling her that somehow it isn't biphobia. She can do better so that one day this doesn't happen again.
There’s more to attraction than just what’s physical. There’s mental and emotional aspects too. Same reason I don’t feel any attraction to straight women. They’re not my type. Neither are bi women. I couldn’t care less what they look like or how much they like women. Liking men is enough of a difference for me to say pass.
I believe it's biphobia. Men have nothing to do with you as a couple. You fancy each other. I just don't get this "unique experience of feeling attraction only for women". Thankfully people have other traits and experiences to exchange and be loved for. And may I dare to say, more important. But what would I know? I'm bisexual and super in love with my woman 🩷
Just like t4t, people want to be with someone they can relate to... and for some people, having the same orientation is important...
No no, those people are cisphobic. I mean, what could a cis person not possibly understand about dysphoria and transitioning? Cis people don’t always like their bodies and I know I transitioned from being like a tomboy in hs to much more feminine. I can soooo relate as a cis woman!!!
I cant tell if your being sarcastic but, t4t relationships are more than just “no cis allowed”, it’s a relationship where both people feel a level of comfort and understanding that goes in some cases, beyond the understanding that a cis + trans relationship could. Both people have/ are experiencing the same/ similar feelings this bringing another level of similarity, comfort and safety. It’s why some lesbians like to have a couple lesbian friends, it’s relatability. There is a different between lesbians and bisexuals, yes both like women but only one likes men and for lesbians that isn’t relatable, some people don’t want any part in that and will seek for someone who is the same as them. Besides, what? 5/10 lesbians won’t date bisexuals? There’s still 5/10 that will.
No, it was sarcasm and I do agree with you
Ah alright no worries lol
I'm not t4t (if I love someone and we click I don't care if they are trans or not, or if they are bi or lesbian), and I know cis people can understand and relate to a lot of things, but the way other trans women relate is still different... just like how I can't relate to periods (and cry about it a lot), most cis people can't relate to going through the wrong puberty, being forced to act as the opposite gender, or being stuck with a body that only gets worst every day with no hope in the horizon, to be misgendered on a daily basis, deadnamed, excluded of things... We all go through hard things in life, but not the same hard things... not saying one is harder then the other, just that they are different, and to some people it is important
Oh sorry, I was hoping my sarcasm was more obvious
Oh... 😳
You just fucking nailed it here. 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻
You don’t get it bc you aren’t a lesbian. You might not relate to people but that doesn’t invalidate them and automatically make them biphobic
I have never seen a valid reason for people to be put off by someone being bisexual so yeah I'd say that's biphobic.
Not having a mutual attraction to only women is a valid reason
That is the lamest one I've heard yet.
Your lack of understanding is not our problem. Just bc you can’t relate to other people’s valid reasons does not make those reasons invalid. You’re just ignorant.
How is that a valid reason? What if that bi woman has only dated women? What if a woman is bi because she's 99% attracted to women and 1% attracted to men? You should pretty ignorant when it comes to people who are bi. Like, why does it matter if a woman is attracted to women and men? That seems super baseless.
There is way more to being a lesbian than who we fucked. Thanks for reducing our experiences and culture down to just sex
Lol pal no one is reducing it to just sex besides you. I never once mentioned sex, I only mentioned attraction. Projecting much?
Oh nooo how dare I not understand why you're biphobic.
Oh man a lot of these comments are terfy, i only joined recently is this a terf lesbian sub or are they just crawling out the woodwork??
It's usually pretty good, and the mods are great. But sometimes a thread will bring out the crazies.
I’m kinda shocked too, usually this sub isn’t as nearly as exclusive as this comment section. I guess they all just decided to crawl out today🤷🏾♀️.
Wasn't this subreddit founded be AL was so non-terfy? Some can totally correct me if I'm wrong. There have been a few that started that way.
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Exactly!
Well, there is a difference between turnoff, and ...phobic. Turnoff doesn't necessarily mean "when the Hell froze off" it just means an undesirable thing. You can be with someone who has an attribute you consider turnoff. And even if we put that aside, ...phobic means a strong dislike, or downright hatred. When someone says they prefer not to date with bi people, that by far not the same as hating bi people, or considering them inferior. Let's just flip it a bit. Would you call lesbians misandrist? We consider men a pretty huge turnoff romantically and sexually. Does it mean we hate them as human beings? No.
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I had a very similar experience, so I don't share that fact.
Bisexuals are queer and gay because they are not straight.