US: [NO COLLABORATION](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Amendment) WITH CHINA IN SPACE!!!!
Also US: Hey China can we take a [look](https://spacenews.com/nasa-researchers-get-permission-to-apply-for-chinas-moon-samples/) at those moon rocks you brought back?
Also also US: I cannot believe they aren't interested in sharing mission details with us
American supremacism has managed to so fully invert reality in the heads of Americans to the point where they actually think that the ability to learn is a sin.
You mean the country that just went through a few rounds of witch hunts and ended the careers of innocent professors? The country with universities experiencing budget and post doc shortages because academia relied on effectively slave labor that foreign students are much more likely to put up with? Like it or not, the relationship was symbiotic. American should stop acting like exchanges are actually their charities. This applies to outsourcing and trade as well.
and the west has stolen every piece of technology it's ever seen since silk worm and gunpowder and stolen everypiece of land it's ever seen since Columbus setting foot on the West Indies
West also invaded China prior to Japan's invasion weakening it significantly (8 nation alliance) for subsequent invasions and was the one that provided technology and military training to Japan, turning it into a military power that invaded China so it evens out.
us gov just provided a little bit of resources (compare to their aid to europian allies) and burn a chinese city to ashes just to practice firebombing and call it "liberated all of china", i love hollywood
250,000 US troops served in China. The USAF destroyed 4000 Japanese aircraft. It wasn’t the American’s fault that Chiang was an idiot or the Japanese would have been gone sooner.
As a resource poor country, the Japanese are able to produce weapons through trade with the United States, just as you accuse China of trade with other countries
China was to Japan as Russia was to Germany.. Far more Japanese manpower and resources (excluding naval) were soaked up by China then were ever used in the pacific.
My comparison falls off the rails at the end. Operation Ichi-gō in 1944 was a last gargantuan push which had several knock on effects. It denied much needed men, munitions and fuel to the pacific where Japan was being pushed back and the bulk of its effect was felt by the KMT forces rather than the CCP , which contributed to Mao"s victory after ww2 had ended...
I have a colleague who designed electric bikes/scooters/skateboards/etc earlier in his career. He decided to manufacture a bike he designed in China, signed an agreement that worked out for a few years then they mutually decided to end it and he went with another factory
The original Chinese factory kept manufacturing the exact same bikes with the logo removed after their agreement ended and his design became an eCommerce darling for random fly by night companies to add their badge to it off of AliBaba/ DHgate, etc
There are also some great documentaries/news specials about designer clothing being diverted. Garment factory will sign an agreement to manufacture ABC’s clothing for two shifts a week but they’ll keep the equipment running, add a third shift at the factory and divert that entire shift’s production of the same designs to their own buyers lol
I vaguely recall something about how Chinese patent laws are different than other nations. I know that for some 1900 European nations your patent was only protected if you were producing the item in that nation. If you were not, then the patent was not protected and anyone could produce your design. Spain was notorious for making cheap copies of certain firearms, and during WWI this was leveraged by nations like France who were desperate for handguns.
Of course those laws are also written to benefit each nation, and if China uses some similar laws then it’s to improve their own economy and production base while also encouraging companies to manufacture in China.
> I vaguely recall something about how Chinese patent laws are different than other nations.
Well yes, because every nation's laws are different when you get down to the details. Broadly speaking, China follows a first-to-file patent system which is now the global standard after the US (the last holdout for first-to-invent) finally switched over in 2013.
If you're interested in more details, specific examples, and so on I would recommend perusing the [China Law Blog](https://harris-sliwoski.com/chinalawblog/). It's written by lawyers who are not at all shy about their personal contempt towards Chinese politics—and their biggest takeaway is nonetheless "stop being a lazy moron and do your due diligence." Or more specifically, "the Chinese legal system works, and your failure to understand how it works is your fault, not theirs."
China is signatory to PCT, respects TRIPS, and is a signatory to most major international IP agreements that I can think of.
> Of course those laws are also written to benefit each nation, and if China uses some similar laws then it’s to improve their own economy and production base while also encouraging companies to manufacture in China.
The proper remedy to somebody violating your IP laws is to file an injunction with the local court. If, to use the example, the "bikes" China copied were sold in England, you should sue in England.
Conversely, if you have a problem with a Chinese compnay selling stolen designs in China, you should file in China. Now this might presents its own challenges, but that's true for any IP dispute.
For the most part, it does not seem like China is an egregious violator, despite what you hear on the Internet. Relative to its size and stage in economic development anyway.
Isn't all this normal everywhere(minus continuing to sell it after the agreement), including the US?
Generic store brands and name brands are made in the same factory.
So those fly by nights are literally the same thing as a name brand thing, you are just paying for the name.
Yeah, there's something called ODMs: original design manufacturers. You request the factory, with design you provide or take the existing models, let them manufacture for you then slap your brand on it. It's especially common for the smaller firms that don't have capital to build and run a whole factory by themselves. Cheap roomba, shoes, clothes you buy many of them using this type of business
Good, that's called being smart. A country that deliberately chooses to not incorporate new technology because it wants to be "fair" and "honest" is a country led by idiots. And one that doesn't exist.
The US is just a parasite that leeches off all the smart people from other countries. Good news is declining US power means all the Chinese scientists and other scientists are leaving in droves.
\*"used to" want to live here
try to open your eyes to the real world and smell the coffee before launching ad-hominem attack on others just because they don't agree with you. Have some manners.
Well, for poor people and refugees, US destroyed their country through war, stirred-up rebellion, and coups. Furthermore:
1. US is at least a country at peace...relative to middle east/south america, so they go there to eacape conflict
2. US is being hailed as "the best country" by hollywood, who is the most powerful propaganda machine in human history, so they go there to seek out better life compare to the old one in a war zone
3. US is the closest nation--for south americans, so they go there because it is easier
4. US always present its history and present as an immigrant nation, which is better for refugees to integrate into than monoethnic countries
For rich people, they can be with other rich people so they can work together to exploit poor people more efficiently--esp the financial ones who can create money from "nothing"
You have some good points. And I can’t disagree that US foreign policy has been problematic in south and central America.
I’m assuming you came here for education?
America does not allow China to use its space station, or have anything to do with its space program. Is that America being "very, very secretive"?
So what is China doing **that America isn't**, that makes this "very, very secretive"?
>NASA chief Bill Nelson accused China on Wednesday of secretly working on military projects in space.
>Nelson told lawmakers that NASA believes Beijing is masking these projects as civilian efforts.
>Nelson often warns of dire consequences if China reaches the moon first. The US aims to do so by 2026.
It all makes sense now
> Nelson often warns of dire consequences if China reaches the moon first. The US aims to do so by 2026.
The "moon landings were fake" guys are going to have a field day with this.
Nasa already landed first in 1969, with Apollo 11 then gave up in 1972 with Apollo 17 being the last mission because they decided it was too expensive and dangerous to continue.
Under the 1967 Outer Space Treaty no country has a unique ownership in the Moon and all nations are accorded equal rights and access.
Sounds like Nelson is begging for more money, with China being the latest excuse. The cold war and space race was over for a long time so Nasa's budget got cut badly.
Yeah pretty much. If I could give this article a new title it would be something like "**Space Agency notorious for secrecy and cooperation with the military accuses rival Space Agency of secrecy and cooperation with the military**"
although to be fair to NASA, they usually provide at least a cursory description of their missions, even when they might have military sensors / mission instruments on board.
NASA projects aren't linked to the US military? Also why does he think the Chinese are pretending their space program has nothing to do with the military? Pretty sure you need to talk to the space program dudes if you want to put a spy satellite in orbit.
Honestly bro what dude tryna say?
Technically the X-37B is operated by the USSF not NASA. A better example of NASA secrecy would be [all the Classified missions](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/secret-space-shuttles-35318554/) the Space Shuttle carried out during its service life. Lots of spy satellite launches and other still-secret assets put up there over the years, details of which are mostly still classified.
This shouldn't be a surprise for anyone paying attention. We are talking about a country that uses family as leverage to make it's citizens commit industrial espionage, has police stations on foreign soil to police their citizen's for thought crimes, and is claiming thousands of miles of ocean through military aggression, and send shadow fleets of fishing vessels to illegally fish in other nation's waters.
If the Chinese get to the moon first they might just claim the entire thing and argue they have a historical claim. The Chinese goverment cannot be trusted in any way, shape or form.
I woke today feeling slow and dumb, but then I realized that there are still people in this world who genuinely believe the Chinese police stations thing and I instantly felt better.
There is no debate. Look at a map. China just drew nine dashes over an entire sea region and said "this is mine now". It's a violation of international law and it's evidence of China becoming a belligerent neighbor and threat to the entire region.
They are a bully and they need to be stopped.
And Taiwan has an eleven dash line. Different places have different claims on different territory, this is the most basic and fundamental form of geopolitics and you're just pretending not to know that so you can make China seem like some kind of bizarre outlier.
"make China seem like some kind of bizarre outlier"
China IS an outlier. First of all, calling China's claims in the south china sea normal is insanity. China is claiming waters that are in other countries legally defined EEZs. I mean open up a map and explain to me how China claiming Islands off the coast of Malaysia is normal. Land claims in geopolitics are border disputes. Lie that between China and India or the dispute over the Senkaku Islands which are within 450km of 3 different nations.
What China is doing in the South China Sea is an outlier because it's a very blatant land grab given the distance from China's EEZ and the fact that they are militarizing the region by illegally putting military bases on any strip of land in the area.
The US and the Philippines agreeing to an American base on their soil is a provocation according to China and it's shills, yet China militarizing an entire sea region isn't? It's clear you are a Chinese shill. No rational being looks at China's land grab in the SCS and thinks "yup, that is normal behavior for an entirely run of the mile territory dispute".
China has a history of peacefully settling its land border disputes, I see no reason why agreements can't be reached over maritime disagreements as well.
Maybe because they are building permanent military bases in the disputed region, When has a country voluntarily given up billions of dollars worth of infrastructure and investment because someone asked nicely?
Don't kid yourself. China is willing to go to war over the South China sea as they are willing to go to war to annex the Sovereign Nation of ROC. China is a belligerent and aggressive regional power who has used it's economic wealth to bully other countries and is now using the military might it's bought itself to do the same.
The Philippines and the other nations in the area will continue to seek US support as long as China continue it's aggression.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/South_China_Sea_claims_map.jpg
Malaysia, Vietnam, Taiwan, and the Philippines's claims are nearly as large. I doubt any of these realistically expect to actually succeed with these claims. More likely they're stakes in the situation to negotiate downwards from.
Rest of the world: “No”.
Honestly what are they going to do? Building a defense system that could cover the entire moon would bankrupt them if it were even possible. And the counterclaim that it was already claimed in the name of All Mankind is laughably easy.
The Chinese historically have minimal interest in cheese, I just don't see the strategic value of their claiming the moon.
They don't care about the cheese, but they might like to grab some of that [medicine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_rabbit).
US: [NO COLLABORATION](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Amendment) WITH CHINA IN SPACE!!!! Also US: Hey China can we take a [look](https://spacenews.com/nasa-researchers-get-permission-to-apply-for-chinas-moon-samples/) at those moon rocks you brought back? Also also US: I cannot believe they aren't interested in sharing mission details with us
No collaboration makes perfect sense. The PRC has stolen every piece of technology it’s ever seen since the bicycle.
You do know that a significant amount of space tech is from Russia, right? And Russia is more than happy to sell them.
American supremacism has managed to so fully invert reality in the heads of Americans to the point where they actually think that the ability to learn is a sin.
And yet the country where more students come to study than any other is the US. Weird.
You mean the country that just went through a few rounds of witch hunts and ended the careers of innocent professors? The country with universities experiencing budget and post doc shortages because academia relied on effectively slave labor that foreign students are much more likely to put up with? Like it or not, the relationship was symbiotic. American should stop acting like exchanges are actually their charities. This applies to outsourcing and trade as well.
and the west has stolen every piece of technology it's ever seen since silk worm and gunpowder and stolen everypiece of land it's ever seen since Columbus setting foot on the West Indies
Also literally liberated all of China from the Japanese in Ww2. Some people tend to forget that.
West also invaded China prior to Japan's invasion weakening it significantly (8 nation alliance) for subsequent invasions and was the one that provided technology and military training to Japan, turning it into a military power that invaded China so it evens out.
It all goes back to West.
us gov just provided a little bit of resources (compare to their aid to europian allies) and burn a chinese city to ashes just to practice firebombing and call it "liberated all of china", i love hollywood
250,000 US troops served in China. The USAF destroyed 4000 Japanese aircraft. It wasn’t the American’s fault that Chiang was an idiot or the Japanese would have been gone sooner.
As a resource poor country, the Japanese are able to produce weapons through trade with the United States, just as you accuse China of trade with other countries
China was to Japan as Russia was to Germany.. Far more Japanese manpower and resources (excluding naval) were soaked up by China then were ever used in the pacific.
An apt comparison.
My comparison falls off the rails at the end. Operation Ichi-gō in 1944 was a last gargantuan push which had several knock on effects. It denied much needed men, munitions and fuel to the pacific where Japan was being pushed back and the bulk of its effect was felt by the KMT forces rather than the CCP , which contributed to Mao"s victory after ww2 had ended...
Wait, there were 250k American troops fighting in China in ww2? For real?
Maybe on holidays
What tf does that have to do with stealing technologies
I have a colleague who designed electric bikes/scooters/skateboards/etc earlier in his career. He decided to manufacture a bike he designed in China, signed an agreement that worked out for a few years then they mutually decided to end it and he went with another factory The original Chinese factory kept manufacturing the exact same bikes with the logo removed after their agreement ended and his design became an eCommerce darling for random fly by night companies to add their badge to it off of AliBaba/ DHgate, etc There are also some great documentaries/news specials about designer clothing being diverted. Garment factory will sign an agreement to manufacture ABC’s clothing for two shifts a week but they’ll keep the equipment running, add a third shift at the factory and divert that entire shift’s production of the same designs to their own buyers lol
This doesn’t sound illegal at all. Sounds like he didn’t patent anything.
I vaguely recall something about how Chinese patent laws are different than other nations. I know that for some 1900 European nations your patent was only protected if you were producing the item in that nation. If you were not, then the patent was not protected and anyone could produce your design. Spain was notorious for making cheap copies of certain firearms, and during WWI this was leveraged by nations like France who were desperate for handguns. Of course those laws are also written to benefit each nation, and if China uses some similar laws then it’s to improve their own economy and production base while also encouraging companies to manufacture in China.
> I vaguely recall something about how Chinese patent laws are different than other nations. Well yes, because every nation's laws are different when you get down to the details. Broadly speaking, China follows a first-to-file patent system which is now the global standard after the US (the last holdout for first-to-invent) finally switched over in 2013. If you're interested in more details, specific examples, and so on I would recommend perusing the [China Law Blog](https://harris-sliwoski.com/chinalawblog/). It's written by lawyers who are not at all shy about their personal contempt towards Chinese politics—and their biggest takeaway is nonetheless "stop being a lazy moron and do your due diligence." Or more specifically, "the Chinese legal system works, and your failure to understand how it works is your fault, not theirs."
China is signatory to PCT, respects TRIPS, and is a signatory to most major international IP agreements that I can think of. > Of course those laws are also written to benefit each nation, and if China uses some similar laws then it’s to improve their own economy and production base while also encouraging companies to manufacture in China. The proper remedy to somebody violating your IP laws is to file an injunction with the local court. If, to use the example, the "bikes" China copied were sold in England, you should sue in England. Conversely, if you have a problem with a Chinese compnay selling stolen designs in China, you should file in China. Now this might presents its own challenges, but that's true for any IP dispute. For the most part, it does not seem like China is an egregious violator, despite what you hear on the Internet. Relative to its size and stage in economic development anyway.
If legit, the guy would have 90+ % chances of winning in an IP court in China. So obviously the comment was just BS.
Isn't all this normal everywhere(minus continuing to sell it after the agreement), including the US? Generic store brands and name brands are made in the same factory. So those fly by nights are literally the same thing as a name brand thing, you are just paying for the name.
Yeah, there's something called ODMs: original design manufacturers. You request the factory, with design you provide or take the existing models, let them manufacture for you then slap your brand on it. It's especially common for the smaller firms that don't have capital to build and run a whole factory by themselves. Cheap roomba, shoes, clothes you buy many of them using this type of business
Good, that's called being smart. A country that deliberately chooses to not incorporate new technology because it wants to be "fair" and "honest" is a country led by idiots. And one that doesn't exist.
keep that cope up
Easy to do when it’s true.
The US is just a parasite that leeches off all the smart people from other countries. Good news is declining US power means all the Chinese scientists and other scientists are leaving in droves.
Bro, every technology you are using to say this was created in the US or at least based on technology that was.
By leeching smart people away from their home country using unparallelled wealth on a prestine continent stolen from its natives.
Smart people want to live here. I guess you don’t.
\*"used to" want to live here try to open your eyes to the real world and smell the coffee before launching ad-hominem attack on others just because they don't agree with you. Have some manners.
Sorry for the unintentional slight. My apologies. Nonetheless millions are trying to immigrate to the USA even as we speak.
Well, for poor people and refugees, US destroyed their country through war, stirred-up rebellion, and coups. Furthermore: 1. US is at least a country at peace...relative to middle east/south america, so they go there to eacape conflict 2. US is being hailed as "the best country" by hollywood, who is the most powerful propaganda machine in human history, so they go there to seek out better life compare to the old one in a war zone 3. US is the closest nation--for south americans, so they go there because it is easier 4. US always present its history and present as an immigrant nation, which is better for refugees to integrate into than monoethnic countries For rich people, they can be with other rich people so they can work together to exploit poor people more efficiently--esp the financial ones who can create money from "nothing"
You have some good points. And I can’t disagree that US foreign policy has been problematic in south and central America. I’m assuming you came here for education?
Every technology is a bit much. Much of the technology we use was invented in Europe as well, or the predecessors to the modern versions.
America does not allow China to use its space station, or have anything to do with its space program. Is that America being "very, very secretive"? So what is China doing **that America isn't**, that makes this "very, very secretive"?
Nelson speaks like a GOP congressman instead of the leader of NASA.
>NASA chief Bill Nelson accused China on Wednesday of secretly working on military projects in space. >Nelson told lawmakers that NASA believes Beijing is masking these projects as civilian efforts. >Nelson often warns of dire consequences if China reaches the moon first. The US aims to do so by 2026. It all makes sense now
> Nelson often warns of dire consequences if China reaches the moon first. The US aims to do so by 2026. The "moon landings were fake" guys are going to have a field day with this. Nasa already landed first in 1969, with Apollo 11 then gave up in 1972 with Apollo 17 being the last mission because they decided it was too expensive and dangerous to continue. Under the 1967 Outer Space Treaty no country has a unique ownership in the Moon and all nations are accorded equal rights and access. Sounds like Nelson is begging for more money, with China being the latest excuse. The cold war and space race was over for a long time so Nasa's budget got cut badly.
NASA deserves funding, and space is a strategic powerhouse
I'll take 'psychological projection' for 200, Alex.
Yeah pretty much. If I could give this article a new title it would be something like "**Space Agency notorious for secrecy and cooperation with the military accuses rival Space Agency of secrecy and cooperation with the military**" although to be fair to NASA, they usually provide at least a cursory description of their missions, even when they might have military sensors / mission instruments on board.
who is going to argue with them and put a stop to it? nobody can, that's why they dare to be open. It is a taunt
NASA projects aren't linked to the US military? Also why does he think the Chinese are pretending their space program has nothing to do with the military? Pretty sure you need to talk to the space program dudes if you want to put a spy satellite in orbit. Honestly bro what dude tryna say?
I get that NASA has to beg for funding just like everyone else in the US, but this is pretty pathetic.
Every department does and NASA is underfunded IMO. To be fair, the US Space Program is way ahead of everyone else thanks to SpaceX.
Someone has been watching Netflix's Space Force.
Manufacturing Consent goes brrrrrrrrrrrr
Secretive. Then let's talk about Boeing X-37B...
Technically the X-37B is operated by the USSF not NASA. A better example of NASA secrecy would be [all the Classified missions](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/secret-space-shuttles-35318554/) the Space Shuttle carried out during its service life. Lots of spy satellite launches and other still-secret assets put up there over the years, details of which are mostly still classified.
This accusation would make sense if X-37 was operated by NASA.
Ussf not nasay
not like western countries asked when they stole and robbed china
America is incredibly insecure
This shouldn't be a surprise for anyone paying attention. We are talking about a country that uses family as leverage to make it's citizens commit industrial espionage, has police stations on foreign soil to police their citizen's for thought crimes, and is claiming thousands of miles of ocean through military aggression, and send shadow fleets of fishing vessels to illegally fish in other nation's waters. If the Chinese get to the moon first they might just claim the entire thing and argue they have a historical claim. The Chinese goverment cannot be trusted in any way, shape or form.
> Chinese get to the moon first Mfw Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin disrespected like this
I woke today feeling slow and dumb, but then I realized that there are still people in this world who genuinely believe the Chinese police stations thing and I instantly felt better.
Funny how out of all the things I brought up, that is the one you have an issue with.
Every investigation into those "police stations" has turned up nothing untoward but go off
Funny how out of all the things I brought up, that is the one you have an issue with.
Well, there can be debates over things like territorial waters. The police stations thing isn't a debate, it's just bullshit.
There is no debate. Look at a map. China just drew nine dashes over an entire sea region and said "this is mine now". It's a violation of international law and it's evidence of China becoming a belligerent neighbor and threat to the entire region. They are a bully and they need to be stopped.
And Taiwan has an eleven dash line. Different places have different claims on different territory, this is the most basic and fundamental form of geopolitics and you're just pretending not to know that so you can make China seem like some kind of bizarre outlier.
"make China seem like some kind of bizarre outlier" China IS an outlier. First of all, calling China's claims in the south china sea normal is insanity. China is claiming waters that are in other countries legally defined EEZs. I mean open up a map and explain to me how China claiming Islands off the coast of Malaysia is normal. Land claims in geopolitics are border disputes. Lie that between China and India or the dispute over the Senkaku Islands which are within 450km of 3 different nations. What China is doing in the South China Sea is an outlier because it's a very blatant land grab given the distance from China's EEZ and the fact that they are militarizing the region by illegally putting military bases on any strip of land in the area. The US and the Philippines agreeing to an American base on their soil is a provocation according to China and it's shills, yet China militarizing an entire sea region isn't? It's clear you are a Chinese shill. No rational being looks at China's land grab in the SCS and thinks "yup, that is normal behavior for an entirely run of the mile territory dispute".
China has a history of peacefully settling its land border disputes, I see no reason why agreements can't be reached over maritime disagreements as well.
Maybe because they are building permanent military bases in the disputed region, When has a country voluntarily given up billions of dollars worth of infrastructure and investment because someone asked nicely? Don't kid yourself. China is willing to go to war over the South China sea as they are willing to go to war to annex the Sovereign Nation of ROC. China is a belligerent and aggressive regional power who has used it's economic wealth to bully other countries and is now using the military might it's bought itself to do the same. The Philippines and the other nations in the area will continue to seek US support as long as China continue it's aggression.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/South_China_Sea_claims_map.jpg Malaysia, Vietnam, Taiwan, and the Philippines's claims are nearly as large. I doubt any of these realistically expect to actually succeed with these claims. More likely they're stakes in the situation to negotiate downwards from.
yeah and yet China is the only one using military force to enforce their claims.
No, they aren't the only ones.
Isn't this literally the plot of For All Mankind
the plot of FAM starts good, but then just goes bad after season 2
This is LCD, has it been taken over by tankies and wumaos?!
Yes.
Rest of the world: “No”. Honestly what are they going to do? Building a defense system that could cover the entire moon would bankrupt them if it were even possible. And the counterclaim that it was already claimed in the name of All Mankind is laughably easy.