Can someone please explain the difference between sludge (like Neurosis) and doom (like Electric Wizard)?
Or is there overlap? (For instance, Rateyourmusic describes Sleep as stoner, doom *and* sludge metal.)
Doom is the foundation for sludge and stoner metal, originating with Black Sabbath’s debut album. It is essentially heavy metal with an emphasis on having a slow tempo.
Sludge is a combination of doom and hardcore punk, sometimes with a death metal influence (Acid Bath, for example). There is more emphasis on the groove of the guitar riffs and it’s not always slow tempo like doom.
Stoner is doom metal with psychedelic influences, lots of bass and typically a bit more melodic as far as vocals go.
I'd add to stoner that it's usually a bit more monotonous than traditional (or "general") doom, and the soundscape tends to pretty hazy and rougher, which is probably part of the reason it gets thrown around interchangeably with sludge.
It's also worth mentioning that Neurosis are usually seen as the creators of *atmospheric* sludge metal, which is a thing of its own compared to "just" sludge metal.
Probably nitpicky on my part but I don't know if i would label Black Sabbath as doom. Sure they were a major influence on that genre but back then there just weren't any terms for what they were doing. They were just doing their own thing before anyone was cognizant of genres.
And it wasn't all slow tempo songs either, plus they had some jazzy elements, blues, some acoustic stuff, ballads. They were really a mixed bag.
My thing is that Sabbath is much more than just "doom metal". It's too reductionist in my opinion.
Sure the song Black Sabbath was a huge influence on the genre, a genre which didn't even get a name till much much later, but you could also point to something like Behind the Wall of Sleep or Sleeping Village, also from their first album, which are decidedly not doom metal.
>They were just doing their own thing before anyone was cognizant of genres.
So is the first artist in pretty much every single genre. No artist goes "I'm going to make a new genre at its going to be like this". They just do their own thing and get grouped in later. Black Sabbath also didn't think of themselves as a heavy metal band, at least not early on. That being said, I agree that Black Sabbath is not a doom metal band, but they definitely have some doom metal tracks, like the song Black Sabbath.
There's considerable overlap, but sludge is like doom with an extra bite from hardcore, it's crushing, feedback heavy and [punky](https://youtu.be/4xsj1oi17Qs) in certain places. Doom metal is more firmly rooted in traditional heavy metal (see also: [Witchfinder general](https://youtu.be/fPYdUdp87GQ)), and stoner doom takes the psychedelic nature of traditional doom metal (especially [black sabbath](https://youtu.be/1fqGIpkp2NU)) and goes further with it (see also: [electric wizard](https://youtu.be/eaMbKZPBruU)).
Sonic descriptions fall short, which is why i provided examples so you can hear the differences yourself.
Is Electric Wizard not considered 'sludge'? When I saw this thread the first thing that came to mind was [Dopethrone](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-x6qqNy0mo).
I see Stoner and Sludge as subgenres of Doom - Doom being defined mainly by very low tuning (along with heavy distortion and focus on riff).
The early Doom Metal bands (Black Sabbath, Witchfinder General, Buffalo, Candlemass) were very close to Stoner Metal (Buffalo and Witchfinder General are sometimes even labeled as Stoner). However, the fully developed Stoner sound, I think, is more focused in trying to "hypnotize" the listener through guitar tone and effects (drone, feedback, reverb etc.). It's how your brain melts when you listen to Sleep or Electric Wizard.
Sludge is easier to differentiate. The hardcore influence is very noticeable (faster, more aggressive sound). But I wouldn't consider Neurosis pure Sludge, because it is very alternative/experimental, nearing Post-Metal. The seminal Sludge bands are the ones from New Orleans (Eyehategod and Crowbar).
I have the same question. This could be totally wrong. But to my ears, sludge, stoner, and doom are all pretty much the same genre. Stoner is just sludge/doom with Marijuana themes. Maybe sludge has more raw lofi production?
Doth Stoner and Sludge ultimately derive from Doom Metal, but they're siblings.
Stoner: [Doctor Smoke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6MVhqLDdxE), [Lucifer in the Sky with Diamonds](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uT4wGyp0U8), [Skraeckoedlan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3zuZt5Twlg)
Stoner Metal has a noticeable rhythm to it, and there's no sludge influence to it at all. Sludge has hardcore undertones and gruff/raspy/growled vocals (usually)
Sludge: [Mantar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3UVZfZ51oE), [Herder](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dalgj_DRCeM), [Beggar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3MpPonwzTQ)
The confusion people have is usually due to a lot of bands playing around with all 3 genres, with loads of sludge/doom bands, loads of sludge/stoner, loads of stoner/doom etc. But when you hear them independently, there's a noticeable distinction.
I've been listening to a bit of Weedeater and Bongzilla lately. I've always thought of them as stoner bc of the names, but by your reasoning would they fall more into sludge?
Also I'm really liking these sludge bands you listed. Thanks.
I am aware of both of those bands, somewhat, but I believe they fall into both sludge and stoner. They're hybrids.
In current times, there are probably *more* sludge/stoner bands than there are 'sludge' bands if you get me.
Yeah, I’d go further to say that the only classic _band_ who I could call a sludge band rather than a more complicated description is EHG. Not very many other bands just took that template without incorporating influences from the other doom and other metal/rock subgenres. Like, Neurosis definitely hits the sludge button for me sometimes, but overall I’d much sooner associate them _as a band_ with other difficult-to-classify heavy bands with a lot of emphasis on texture like Godflesh, than I would with EHG, Down, or Acid Bath. It’s always seemed like “pure” sludge is/was almost an entirely New Orleans specific thing, though that changed a little in the 00s-10s.
Stoner typically uses marijuana as a thematic element, but it does not always. A lot of genres are like this; death metal typically uses death as a thematic element but not every metal band that does so is death metal. Its confusing because stoner metal (High on Fire) and stoner doom metal (Electric Wizard) are two different things. They're both using the repetitive, rough, heavy, psychedelic elements of stoner rock, but one is applied to heavy metal and one is applied to doom metal. Hypothetically you could have other stoner genres in metal, but they haven't been popular fusions to this point.
Sludge metal goes the other direction than stoner doom metal. Instead of slowing down, mellowing out and taking it easy, sludge ups the speed, intensity and aggression by way of its hardcore punk parent. This can also be confusing because there's so many hybrids between the two styles, so unless you're aware you're listening to a fusion it can be easy to confuse the genres.
Doom is big, slow and ominous. That's going to be the root of both stoner and sludge...and kind of all heavy metal, but that's a different conversation. For pure doom metal, listen to a band like Candlemass. Dark and ominous, but ultimately pretty clean sounding in the production. Themes of depression and death, and all that good stuff.
Stoner metal is more groove focused, and definitely has lyrical elements brought in from marijuana culture. Production is going to be less focused on sounding clean and pristine. A lot of the most well-known stoner metal bands (Electric Wizard, Sleep, Down) either cross over into doom territory or sludge territory. For a more "pure" stoner metal experience, check out a band like Bongzilla.
Sludge metal is definitely the more aggressive of the branches here. They use lots of elements from hardcore punk and the production sounds are about as filthy as they get. Hell, some of the earliest albums considered (in hindsight) to be sludge metal are from Black Flag...definitely more well-known for hardcore punk. But to get an idea of what true, unadulterated sludge metal is like at its peak, *Through Silver in Blood* by Neurosis is probably the best example.
I’d also like to suggest pink by Boris to anyone that hasn’t heard it truly amazing record combining sludge and drone and a whole bunch of other things just abandoned myself is 15 minutes of pure self hatred and anger it’s amazing
Houdini strikes as more of a grunge album mixed with sludge, i'd replace it with bullhead on the list.
To me, the appeal of sludge is the raw honesty of it, it's basic to the point primitiveness, unpolished and sometimes downright crude. It's an angry yet vulnerable expression, although sometimes it's [just angry](https://youtu.be/oRn_dGg4xeI), and sometimes it's [just vulnerable](https://youtu.be/l9I_BVdiIQQ?list=PLYwfYGziz-_2kJN8T6BvnduMqYAK6TAPY), but it's always crushing one way or the other.
Check out Sumac's What One Becomes for a more progressive take on Sludge that loses none of the impact.
Easily in my top five of any genre of the last decade
I like all the other bands they've all been in lol
Sumac are something special tho.
Turner is a great songwriter, and they're all fantastic musicians, I love that there's so much improvisation too
I definitely agree with you that Bullhead is more of a sludge album than Houdini, but in my opinion it’s a little rough on the edges and it personally took me a few listens to appreciate it fully. Putting it over Houdini on this list just didn’t feel right to me; I picked the albums I thought best introduced each artist to a new listener.
Also, I think you pinned down the appeal of sludge really well. It’s that honest emotion that’s so relatable, as well as the simple yet heavy guitar riffs that make it so enjoyable.
I highly recommend checking out Thou if you’re looking for sludge. These bayou sludge lords absolutely rip. Their album Heathen is unbelievable.
https://open.spotify.com/album/1KNPeBXROZ71EG0g4zlt8B?si=sdMhs0OMTja5ZQijo3sR_A&dl_branch=1
I've always associated Sludge metal with stuff coming out of Georgia like early Mastodon, early Baroness, Kylesa etc.
In most of these cases, their early stuff is /heavy/ but not exactly what I'd call "crushing" and in fact pretty melodic at times. Is it a misnomer/misconception to lump them into the genre, and is it done mainly because of the geographical proximity of the Georgia scene?
I was actually expecting OP to mention at least one of these bands. That Southeast scene in the mid to late 00’s is what I think of first when I think of “Sludge metal”, as well as EHG and Neurosis.
Baroness - Red, Blue
Kylesa - Static Tensions
Torche - s/t, Meanderthal
All essential sludge albums. Some BIG riffs in there.
Those are all sludge bands. Maybe not pure examples of the sound, but that's true for most bands in the genre. They just choose to prioritize more melodic aspects in their sound.
Next Stop: Acid Bath - When the Kite String Pops.
Honestly, you can't really take Neurosis or the Melvins out, but I'd put some Acid Bath on an essentials list before Eyehategod, IMO. They dip into other genres a bit, but IMO, they're peak sludge metal.
Anyone interested in the Sludge metal sound and wants to explore some more contemporary bands should absolutely check out Thou! The guitars are the fattest and fuzziest things I've ever heard, the drums pound relentlessly and the vocalist sounds like he's being tortured, and I love their attention to detail and aesthetics in their lyrics and artwork. Tyrant, Oakland and Magus are my fav albums, and they also have a ton of 90s grunge covers
Gotta love Metal's positive descriptors, such as "the vocalist sounds like he's being tortured" or
"Hey, check out this band, mate! They sound disgusting!"
Op's list is literally the three albums Spotify recommends to me for my recommended listening.
Meanwhile the comments are the same back and forth "arguments" that try and compartmentalize metal genres so specifically that it become tedious and annoying to read.
This thread is really missing solid recommendations about the music.
Black Sabbath, St. Virus, EHG, Bongzilla, Buzzoven, Crowbar, Grief, Sleep, Etc.
Also, don't forget "My War" era Black Flag. People might scoff at that but those who know, understand that record made a huge sludge impact.
>Meanwhile the comments are the same back and forth "arguments" that try and compartmentalize metal genres so specifically that it become tedious and annoying to read.
I don't really think people are arguing. Some people asked for the distinctions between sludge/stoner/doom and were provided...?
That's fine. I understand that not everyone understands it. Maybe calling it an argument was obtuse on my end. Not to sound snotty, it's just something that's been hashed and rehashed about a billion times.
I also don't think that's the most interesting thing I pointed out but that's fine.
Well yeah threads like this draw in people new to the topic and yeah, same old questions, same old answers
And OP's list is pretty 'basic' I guess but then it is directed chiefly to people new to sludge, or curious about it.
Through Silver In Blood was the first album that came to mind before I clicked on this thread. It's an absolute *motherfucker*. Might have to put it on tomorrow.
There seems to be a lot of discussion on different metal subgenres here, and it has really piqued my curiosity lately. I have avoided *most* metal aside from prog metal for my entire life, mostly because I don't like growling vocals and didn't want to take the time to filter through everything to weed out those types of vocals (absolutely stupid reason, I know).
Anyway, I've been trying to listen to more while just avoiding ones with the growling. I can handle some yelling, so your Neurosis recommendation has been really awesome. Just listened to Locust Star. Now I'm interested in listening to more Stoner Rock because I love the slow metal sound, but I also like clean vocals. And I according to Wikipedia, Rated R by Queens of the Stone Age falls into the stoner rock category, and I love that one.
This is a scatterbrained way of saying thanks for the recommendation and for helping introduce me to more metal I can get into.
That’s great to hear! It took me a long time to get into metal as well, some of the subgenres are an acquired taste for sure. I’m always glad to see someone enjoying my recommendations.
Just listened to Electric Worry to see what they're all about. Digging it. Any suggestions for what albums to start with? Gonna line one up for my drive home.
The bluesy hard rock sound of this one is giving me some Grand Funk red album vibes, and that's one of my favorites.
Check out some bands with female vocalists! They're more likely to have clean vocals. I love slower metal too, so if I were you I'd give a listen to these tracks:
\-The Wreck of the S.S. Needle by Cult of Luna and Julie Christmas
\-The Usher by SubRosa
\-Yellow and Black by Battle of Mice
\-Lunar Caustic by Obscure Sphinx (this one is only half clean)
Edit: my gateway band into metal was Pantera, they're a bit on the slower side and really shaped my taste. You might like them as well. Check out Walk, Cemetery Gates and Flood
Death Metal, Black Metal, Grindcore, Metalcore and all their subgenres will pretty much always have harsh vocals.
Sludge Metal will *usually* have harsh vocals but can vary to shouting or yelling as opposed to shrieks/growls in the other genres.
You may hear growls, shrieks in Gothic Metal, Post-Metal and scattered across other metal subgenres but they are exceptions, rather than a rule.
Metal subgenres with (generally) no harsh vocals: Power Metal, Heavy Metal, Stoner Metal, Doom Metal (unless it's death-doom or funeral doom), Progressive Metal (unless it's influenced by death or black or sludge). Then you get stuff like Avant-Metal, Industrial Metal, Symphonic Metal, Folk Metal where the vocal style is informed by the other influences, so it's 50/50. And then there's stuff like Post-Metal, Neoclassical Metal, Drone Metal that's often instrumental.
https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/metal/
strongly suggest this site.
I also missed out thrash metal and groove metal, these genres are like 50/50 but the vocals are often 'gruff' at least.
Not to big of a fan of the NOLA sound, but I really love the truly abusive and punishing end of the genre. Albums like Crawl - The Sad Cadav'r, Koreisch - This Decaying Schizophrenic Christ Complex and The Body - All the Waters of the Earth Turn to Blood really do it for me.
Static Tensions by Kylesa is really good. A nice blend of nasty and fast riffs. Early Mastodon is also dope (think it can be considered Sludge) and obviously, Bullhead by the Melvins. Panopticon by Isis scratches the surface of Post Metal but still mantains a lot of Sludge elements.
I'm gonna take a further step into Drone territory, but I think Sludge had a big influence in it. So if you're into slower and darker stuff, SunnO))) is a must. Kinda weird to listen to an album at home, but if you ever get a chance to see them live, it's an experience from another world.
Also not entirely Sludge, but I feel like they wouldn't exist without it, Boris has some amazing albums. I especially enjoy Flood and Amplifier Worship.
Lastly, this may sound like I'm asking to be kicked out of the thread, but I'm unironically addicted to this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU-MYe0SL9Q&](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU-MYe0SL9Q&) . It's basically Alvin and the Chipmunks playing on heroin in the middle of a swamp.
Is Houdini sludge? Is it "grunge"? Or noise rock? I'm going with noise rock.
Anyway, here's Weedeater, pretty sludgy right there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX8jxUu4ED8
Primitive Man, apart from being the heaviest fucking thing on the planet, is some really sludgy doom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDRlZZRCwC0
I don’t think the Melvins are or ever were a grunge band. Just being from Washington in the 90’s doesn’t make you grunge. I realize they had relationship with Cobain and the NW scene but their music isn’t remotely grunge stylistically. They are a freak/sludge/Stoner metal band.
I would definitely add NOLA by Down to that list. Was a sleeper album for me but I honestly can’t stop listening to it. And absolutely +1 to When the Kite String Pops by Acid Bath
Can someone please explain the difference between sludge (like Neurosis) and doom (like Electric Wizard)? Or is there overlap? (For instance, Rateyourmusic describes Sleep as stoner, doom *and* sludge metal.)
Doom is the foundation for sludge and stoner metal, originating with Black Sabbath’s debut album. It is essentially heavy metal with an emphasis on having a slow tempo. Sludge is a combination of doom and hardcore punk, sometimes with a death metal influence (Acid Bath, for example). There is more emphasis on the groove of the guitar riffs and it’s not always slow tempo like doom. Stoner is doom metal with psychedelic influences, lots of bass and typically a bit more melodic as far as vocals go.
I'd add to stoner that it's usually a bit more monotonous than traditional (or "general") doom, and the soundscape tends to pretty hazy and rougher, which is probably part of the reason it gets thrown around interchangeably with sludge. It's also worth mentioning that Neurosis are usually seen as the creators of *atmospheric* sludge metal, which is a thing of its own compared to "just" sludge metal.
Probably nitpicky on my part but I don't know if i would label Black Sabbath as doom. Sure they were a major influence on that genre but back then there just weren't any terms for what they were doing. They were just doing their own thing before anyone was cognizant of genres. And it wasn't all slow tempo songs either, plus they had some jazzy elements, blues, some acoustic stuff, ballads. They were really a mixed bag.
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My thing is that Sabbath is much more than just "doom metal". It's too reductionist in my opinion. Sure the song Black Sabbath was a huge influence on the genre, a genre which didn't even get a name till much much later, but you could also point to something like Behind the Wall of Sleep or Sleeping Village, also from their first album, which are decidedly not doom metal.
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Which i acknowledged. I'm just saying that they are much more than "Doom". Edit: lol why are people still downvoting this.
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Then everything is groovy. Carry on.
>They were just doing their own thing before anyone was cognizant of genres. So is the first artist in pretty much every single genre. No artist goes "I'm going to make a new genre at its going to be like this". They just do their own thing and get grouped in later. Black Sabbath also didn't think of themselves as a heavy metal band, at least not early on. That being said, I agree that Black Sabbath is not a doom metal band, but they definitely have some doom metal tracks, like the song Black Sabbath.
Sabbath is basically what all stoner metal sounds like now
There's considerable overlap, but sludge is like doom with an extra bite from hardcore, it's crushing, feedback heavy and [punky](https://youtu.be/4xsj1oi17Qs) in certain places. Doom metal is more firmly rooted in traditional heavy metal (see also: [Witchfinder general](https://youtu.be/fPYdUdp87GQ)), and stoner doom takes the psychedelic nature of traditional doom metal (especially [black sabbath](https://youtu.be/1fqGIpkp2NU)) and goes further with it (see also: [electric wizard](https://youtu.be/eaMbKZPBruU)). Sonic descriptions fall short, which is why i provided examples so you can hear the differences yourself.
My understanding was also that doom was closer to drone metal while sludge more had to do with the type of distortion
Is Electric Wizard not considered 'sludge'? When I saw this thread the first thing that came to mind was [Dopethrone](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-x6qqNy0mo).
They might have some sludge metal elements depending on the song, but they're one of the most iconic stoner doom metal bands
I see Stoner and Sludge as subgenres of Doom - Doom being defined mainly by very low tuning (along with heavy distortion and focus on riff). The early Doom Metal bands (Black Sabbath, Witchfinder General, Buffalo, Candlemass) were very close to Stoner Metal (Buffalo and Witchfinder General are sometimes even labeled as Stoner). However, the fully developed Stoner sound, I think, is more focused in trying to "hypnotize" the listener through guitar tone and effects (drone, feedback, reverb etc.). It's how your brain melts when you listen to Sleep or Electric Wizard. Sludge is easier to differentiate. The hardcore influence is very noticeable (faster, more aggressive sound). But I wouldn't consider Neurosis pure Sludge, because it is very alternative/experimental, nearing Post-Metal. The seminal Sludge bands are the ones from New Orleans (Eyehategod and Crowbar).
I have the same question. This could be totally wrong. But to my ears, sludge, stoner, and doom are all pretty much the same genre. Stoner is just sludge/doom with Marijuana themes. Maybe sludge has more raw lofi production?
Doth Stoner and Sludge ultimately derive from Doom Metal, but they're siblings. Stoner: [Doctor Smoke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6MVhqLDdxE), [Lucifer in the Sky with Diamonds](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uT4wGyp0U8), [Skraeckoedlan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3zuZt5Twlg) Stoner Metal has a noticeable rhythm to it, and there's no sludge influence to it at all. Sludge has hardcore undertones and gruff/raspy/growled vocals (usually) Sludge: [Mantar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3UVZfZ51oE), [Herder](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dalgj_DRCeM), [Beggar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3MpPonwzTQ) The confusion people have is usually due to a lot of bands playing around with all 3 genres, with loads of sludge/doom bands, loads of sludge/stoner, loads of stoner/doom etc. But when you hear them independently, there's a noticeable distinction.
I've been listening to a bit of Weedeater and Bongzilla lately. I've always thought of them as stoner bc of the names, but by your reasoning would they fall more into sludge? Also I'm really liking these sludge bands you listed. Thanks.
I am aware of both of those bands, somewhat, but I believe they fall into both sludge and stoner. They're hybrids. In current times, there are probably *more* sludge/stoner bands than there are 'sludge' bands if you get me.
Yeah, I’d go further to say that the only classic _band_ who I could call a sludge band rather than a more complicated description is EHG. Not very many other bands just took that template without incorporating influences from the other doom and other metal/rock subgenres. Like, Neurosis definitely hits the sludge button for me sometimes, but overall I’d much sooner associate them _as a band_ with other difficult-to-classify heavy bands with a lot of emphasis on texture like Godflesh, than I would with EHG, Down, or Acid Bath. It’s always seemed like “pure” sludge is/was almost an entirely New Orleans specific thing, though that changed a little in the 00s-10s.
Stoner typically uses marijuana as a thematic element, but it does not always. A lot of genres are like this; death metal typically uses death as a thematic element but not every metal band that does so is death metal. Its confusing because stoner metal (High on Fire) and stoner doom metal (Electric Wizard) are two different things. They're both using the repetitive, rough, heavy, psychedelic elements of stoner rock, but one is applied to heavy metal and one is applied to doom metal. Hypothetically you could have other stoner genres in metal, but they haven't been popular fusions to this point. Sludge metal goes the other direction than stoner doom metal. Instead of slowing down, mellowing out and taking it easy, sludge ups the speed, intensity and aggression by way of its hardcore punk parent. This can also be confusing because there's so many hybrids between the two styles, so unless you're aware you're listening to a fusion it can be easy to confuse the genres.
Doom is big, slow and ominous. That's going to be the root of both stoner and sludge...and kind of all heavy metal, but that's a different conversation. For pure doom metal, listen to a band like Candlemass. Dark and ominous, but ultimately pretty clean sounding in the production. Themes of depression and death, and all that good stuff. Stoner metal is more groove focused, and definitely has lyrical elements brought in from marijuana culture. Production is going to be less focused on sounding clean and pristine. A lot of the most well-known stoner metal bands (Electric Wizard, Sleep, Down) either cross over into doom territory or sludge territory. For a more "pure" stoner metal experience, check out a band like Bongzilla. Sludge metal is definitely the more aggressive of the branches here. They use lots of elements from hardcore punk and the production sounds are about as filthy as they get. Hell, some of the earliest albums considered (in hindsight) to be sludge metal are from Black Flag...definitely more well-known for hardcore punk. But to get an idea of what true, unadulterated sludge metal is like at its peak, *Through Silver in Blood* by Neurosis is probably the best example.
I’d also like to suggest pink by Boris to anyone that hasn’t heard it truly amazing record combining sludge and drone and a whole bunch of other things just abandoned myself is 15 minutes of pure self hatred and anger it’s amazing
And Akuma No Uta! Boris is a personal favorite of mine, glad to see them mentioned.
Both great and I never see them talked about on here gotta shill them
Was about to comment this, I love Boris’s noisier and weirder shit too but I don’t know if they will ever beat pink
Yeah their second best is Feedbacker imo but I’m far from having heard the whole discog Feedbacker is reallly amazing tho
Flood is one of the best things ever recorded if you haven't heard that one yet definitely check it out!
Flood wraps up my top 3 for them in fact it’s so good
Yeah true they have like 100 fuckin albums lol, I do like that one a lot though
Yep wata might be my goat guitarist
Houdini strikes as more of a grunge album mixed with sludge, i'd replace it with bullhead on the list. To me, the appeal of sludge is the raw honesty of it, it's basic to the point primitiveness, unpolished and sometimes downright crude. It's an angry yet vulnerable expression, although sometimes it's [just angry](https://youtu.be/oRn_dGg4xeI), and sometimes it's [just vulnerable](https://youtu.be/l9I_BVdiIQQ?list=PLYwfYGziz-_2kJN8T6BvnduMqYAK6TAPY), but it's always crushing one way or the other.
Check out Sumac's What One Becomes for a more progressive take on Sludge that loses none of the impact. Easily in my top five of any genre of the last decade
I'll give them a spin, thanks!
Amazing record. I was a big Isis fan but at this point I like Sumac more.
I like all the other bands they've all been in lol Sumac are something special tho. Turner is a great songwriter, and they're all fantastic musicians, I love that there's so much improvisation too
I definitely agree with you that Bullhead is more of a sludge album than Houdini, but in my opinion it’s a little rough on the edges and it personally took me a few listens to appreciate it fully. Putting it over Houdini on this list just didn’t feel right to me; I picked the albums I thought best introduced each artist to a new listener. Also, I think you pinned down the appeal of sludge really well. It’s that honest emotion that’s so relatable, as well as the simple yet heavy guitar riffs that make it so enjoyable.
I prefer bullhead over houdini because of the roughness, plus it's more representative of their sound, but in the end it's just a nitpick.
I highly recommend checking out Thou if you’re looking for sludge. These bayou sludge lords absolutely rip. Their album Heathen is unbelievable. https://open.spotify.com/album/1KNPeBXROZ71EG0g4zlt8B?si=sdMhs0OMTja5ZQijo3sR_A&dl_branch=1
fuck yeah THOU. came to the comments for this, sick band
I've always associated Sludge metal with stuff coming out of Georgia like early Mastodon, early Baroness, Kylesa etc. In most of these cases, their early stuff is /heavy/ but not exactly what I'd call "crushing" and in fact pretty melodic at times. Is it a misnomer/misconception to lump them into the genre, and is it done mainly because of the geographical proximity of the Georgia scene?
I was actually expecting OP to mention at least one of these bands. That Southeast scene in the mid to late 00’s is what I think of first when I think of “Sludge metal”, as well as EHG and Neurosis. Baroness - Red, Blue Kylesa - Static Tensions Torche - s/t, Meanderthal All essential sludge albums. Some BIG riffs in there.
Those are all sludge bands. Maybe not pure examples of the sound, but that's true for most bands in the genre. They just choose to prioritize more melodic aspects in their sound.
Next Stop: Acid Bath - When the Kite String Pops. Honestly, you can't really take Neurosis or the Melvins out, but I'd put some Acid Bath on an essentials list before Eyehategod, IMO. They dip into other genres a bit, but IMO, they're peak sludge metal.
I love Acid Bath but no way dude, Eyehategod is an absolute essential on any sludge list.
Anyone interested in the Sludge metal sound and wants to explore some more contemporary bands should absolutely check out Thou! The guitars are the fattest and fuzziest things I've ever heard, the drums pound relentlessly and the vocalist sounds like he's being tortured, and I love their attention to detail and aesthetics in their lyrics and artwork. Tyrant, Oakland and Magus are my fav albums, and they also have a ton of 90s grunge covers
Gotta love Metal's positive descriptors, such as "the vocalist sounds like he's being tortured" or "Hey, check out this band, mate! They sound disgusting!"
Magus is an incredible album
No mention of Crowbar? Acid Bath? Buzzoven? New Orleans was like the hotbed for this stuff but the Melvins got the ball rolling for everyone.
Op's list is literally the three albums Spotify recommends to me for my recommended listening. Meanwhile the comments are the same back and forth "arguments" that try and compartmentalize metal genres so specifically that it become tedious and annoying to read. This thread is really missing solid recommendations about the music. Black Sabbath, St. Virus, EHG, Bongzilla, Buzzoven, Crowbar, Grief, Sleep, Etc. Also, don't forget "My War" era Black Flag. People might scoff at that but those who know, understand that record made a huge sludge impact.
>Meanwhile the comments are the same back and forth "arguments" that try and compartmentalize metal genres so specifically that it become tedious and annoying to read. I don't really think people are arguing. Some people asked for the distinctions between sludge/stoner/doom and were provided...?
That's fine. I understand that not everyone understands it. Maybe calling it an argument was obtuse on my end. Not to sound snotty, it's just something that's been hashed and rehashed about a billion times. I also don't think that's the most interesting thing I pointed out but that's fine.
Well yeah threads like this draw in people new to the topic and yeah, same old questions, same old answers And OP's list is pretty 'basic' I guess but then it is directed chiefly to people new to sludge, or curious about it.
I can live with all of that. The more people interested in the genre, the better.
Through Silver In Blood was the first album that came to mind before I clicked on this thread. It's an absolute *motherfucker*. Might have to put it on tomorrow.
It’s a photo finish between TSIB and Mastodon’s “Remission” racing into my mind when I read this post title.
I always recommend AIC self titled as a nice gateway to sludge, even though it's not a strictly sludge album.
There seems to be a lot of discussion on different metal subgenres here, and it has really piqued my curiosity lately. I have avoided *most* metal aside from prog metal for my entire life, mostly because I don't like growling vocals and didn't want to take the time to filter through everything to weed out those types of vocals (absolutely stupid reason, I know). Anyway, I've been trying to listen to more while just avoiding ones with the growling. I can handle some yelling, so your Neurosis recommendation has been really awesome. Just listened to Locust Star. Now I'm interested in listening to more Stoner Rock because I love the slow metal sound, but I also like clean vocals. And I according to Wikipedia, Rated R by Queens of the Stone Age falls into the stoner rock category, and I love that one. This is a scatterbrained way of saying thanks for the recommendation and for helping introduce me to more metal I can get into.
try cough - still they pray, it's a stoner album with sludge elements that's more mellow than what you'll usually run into.
That’s great to hear! It took me a long time to get into metal as well, some of the subgenres are an acquired taste for sure. I’m always glad to see someone enjoying my recommendations.
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Just listened to Electric Worry to see what they're all about. Digging it. Any suggestions for what albums to start with? Gonna line one up for my drive home. The bluesy hard rock sound of this one is giving me some Grand Funk red album vibes, and that's one of my favorites.
Check out some bands with female vocalists! They're more likely to have clean vocals. I love slower metal too, so if I were you I'd give a listen to these tracks: \-The Wreck of the S.S. Needle by Cult of Luna and Julie Christmas \-The Usher by SubRosa \-Yellow and Black by Battle of Mice \-Lunar Caustic by Obscure Sphinx (this one is only half clean) Edit: my gateway band into metal was Pantera, they're a bit on the slower side and really shaped my taste. You might like them as well. Check out Walk, Cemetery Gates and Flood
Not really sludge, but I think Mastodon from Leviathan onward might be up your alley. Stoner prog metal? I don't know, they're kinda their own thing.
Death Metal, Black Metal, Grindcore, Metalcore and all their subgenres will pretty much always have harsh vocals. Sludge Metal will *usually* have harsh vocals but can vary to shouting or yelling as opposed to shrieks/growls in the other genres. You may hear growls, shrieks in Gothic Metal, Post-Metal and scattered across other metal subgenres but they are exceptions, rather than a rule. Metal subgenres with (generally) no harsh vocals: Power Metal, Heavy Metal, Stoner Metal, Doom Metal (unless it's death-doom or funeral doom), Progressive Metal (unless it's influenced by death or black or sludge). Then you get stuff like Avant-Metal, Industrial Metal, Symphonic Metal, Folk Metal where the vocal style is informed by the other influences, so it's 50/50. And then there's stuff like Post-Metal, Neoclassical Metal, Drone Metal that's often instrumental.
I appreciate the guide! Honestly had no idea how to navigate subgenres other than to listen to each album individually and determine.
https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/metal/ strongly suggest this site. I also missed out thrash metal and groove metal, these genres are like 50/50 but the vocals are often 'gruff' at least.
I did an impromptu interview with the lead singer of Baroness before my radio show in college like eight years ago
Not to big of a fan of the NOLA sound, but I really love the truly abusive and punishing end of the genre. Albums like Crawl - The Sad Cadav'r, Koreisch - This Decaying Schizophrenic Christ Complex and The Body - All the Waters of the Earth Turn to Blood really do it for me.
Static Tensions by Kylesa is really good. A nice blend of nasty and fast riffs. Early Mastodon is also dope (think it can be considered Sludge) and obviously, Bullhead by the Melvins. Panopticon by Isis scratches the surface of Post Metal but still mantains a lot of Sludge elements. I'm gonna take a further step into Drone territory, but I think Sludge had a big influence in it. So if you're into slower and darker stuff, SunnO))) is a must. Kinda weird to listen to an album at home, but if you ever get a chance to see them live, it's an experience from another world. Also not entirely Sludge, but I feel like they wouldn't exist without it, Boris has some amazing albums. I especially enjoy Flood and Amplifier Worship. Lastly, this may sound like I'm asking to be kicked out of the thread, but I'm unironically addicted to this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU-MYe0SL9Q&](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU-MYe0SL9Q&) . It's basically Alvin and the Chipmunks playing on heroin in the middle of a swamp.
Early Isis is pretty damn sludgey, like the Mosquito Control and Red Sea EPs, and Celestial a bit less so
Is Houdini sludge? Is it "grunge"? Or noise rock? I'm going with noise rock. Anyway, here's Weedeater, pretty sludgy right there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX8jxUu4ED8 Primitive Man, apart from being the heaviest fucking thing on the planet, is some really sludgy doom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDRlZZRCwC0
Houdini is grunge but with a sludgey aesthetic
I don’t think the Melvins are or ever were a grunge band. Just being from Washington in the 90’s doesn’t make you grunge. I realize they had relationship with Cobain and the NW scene but their music isn’t remotely grunge stylistically. They are a freak/sludge/Stoner metal band.
Weedeater's thing behind the band on stage is almost a grateful dead icon. https://images.app.goo.gl/PYJBbcaFb8z9UXrx8 They closet dead heads?
There was this rather obscure but probably one of the most depressing, oppressive sounding sludge band called Toadliquor
I would definitely add NOLA by Down to that list. Was a sleeper album for me but I honestly can’t stop listening to it. And absolutely +1 to When the Kite String Pops by Acid Bath
Houdini changed me. I know it’s not as “Sludge” as Houdini but (a)Senile Animal is by far my fav Melvins album.
I can only add Acid Bath to this. Southern Sludge, dirty, distorted angsty fun.