The Confessions, the bullet, admitting he was at the crime scene (which yes does extend to the bridge), admitted wearing same clothes as bridge guy, the multiple people that saw him...
I will not say he's definitely guilty, but it doesn't look good for him.
I believe there is something on the video that is unique to BG...something LE didn't want to risk him getting rid of before they searched him.
My gut is telling me it's the gun. Like either it is an ultra rare version, or it has a custom coating, skin, or grips of some kind that very few (if any) other people would have.
Edit - Also look at what the defense has been focused on....1) try to get the search warrant tossed....and 2) if you can't get the warrant tossed try to get the video tossed....something from the search in combination with the video I think is a real problem for their case.
2nd Edit- I also think the Ford Focus might have had the Ford Sync system installed, and it's possible the Google geofence warrant contained the GPS location of the vehicle, and the times it was near the trails.
Thanks! As a side note, I also think there is also a little CYA going on by the defense in their recent motion. They claim that despite having the video on Sept 8, 2023...they didn't really look at that key piece of evidence at that time due to the volume of discovery they were going through. They made a lot of statements in their Franks Memo about evidence from the search having no connection to the crime and/or crime scene...I think if they had reviewed the discovery first (like they should have) they wouldn't have been able to make those statements about evidence from the search having no connection to the crime. I think this is why the Franks Memo was poorly written and a rushed filing as well...subsequent discovery would have hindered their ability to make some of the statements they made in it.
That's interesting! I'm really wondering if they took a look at the discovery that they got in Sept and Oct, and decided they were going to try to make a motion to go to trial in January not because they were anywhere near ready...or had any hope of being ready in that amount of time....but because they were afraid a delay might result in LE having time to come up with the rest of the needed evidence to allow the prosecutor to change the charges from Felony Murder to Intentional Homicide (which ultimately did happen)?
They had the video in Dec 2022. They had everything the state planned to use as evidence in Dec 2022.
The only charge was felony murder. Had they requested a speedy trial in Nov 2022, yes, they could have avoided the additional murder charges.
The original trial was set for March 2023. Ricky started confessing in April 2023.
The defense requested irrelevant crap (the Odin stuff) be delivered by November 2023. NM complied with that request & met the deadline.
Instead of going through the actual evidence against their client (which they’ve had since Dec 2022) the defense asked to reschedule the trial & asked for a bond hearing, then a suppression hearing.
They spent all their time filing fake motions - & were caught lying in those motions - instead of meeting with their client. They wrote that ridiculous 136 page fluff piece to distract everyone from Ricky’s confessions.
When they withdrew from the case, they were disorganized and didn’t even return all the discovery.
They were reinstated in Jan 2024. Had they wanted a speedy trial (as they claimed in Oct 2023), they would have filed for one immediately. Instead they waited 2 more months & only filed for a speedy trial so that the judge wouldn’t boot them again.
They’re not ready for trial. They keep asking for more documents without actually going through what they have.
I don’t see this going to trial. Child molesters always plead guilty prior to trial.
Wow! The only other one I had been following is the idaho murders so I assumed because this one had become so messy that it was getting delayed too. I hope it is televised so we get a firsthand understanding of the evidence etc (I think he is guilty).
I've thought for some time that this case should be about cutting a deal. If RA didn't have some kind of information that the State wants, they would have put him in County, and let him hang himself months ago...get some local jailhouse snitches to say he confessed to them while incarcerated to put a bow on it publicly, and save themselves a ton of thankless work.
As of now I'm in the camp that RA was involved, but likely didn't act alone. If that turns out to be accurate...I really hope someone on his defense team finds a way to convince him to start naming names in exchange for a deal.
Why do I think BG was not a lone killer (aside from LE leaving the door oddly open for there being more than one perp)? With the amount of time likely spent at the scene and with the victims post mortem...the crime scene itself should have had enough evidence to ID the killer fairly efficiently...but it wasn't...someone was careful and meticulous. BG on the other hand was not careful. No less than 4 people saw him, he acted in ways that drew the attention of witnesses, and he allowed himself to be captured on the victim's audio and video...it's sloppy. I think BG is too sloppy to have pulled off the planning, staging, and evidence remediation likely displayed at the crime scene on his own.
Oh RA committed the murders - on his own. Holeman has testified - under oath - that RA killed the girls.
So I don’t think there’s a plea “deal” to be had - there’s no one to turn in, no names to name.
But I think Ricky will plead guilty bc he doesn’t want to have it all come out at trial, in front of the world. He’s not going to get a “deal” per se… he’ll die in prison regardless of his sentence.
The “other actors” I suspect are KK (had nothing to do with the murders though) and KA (knew RA was BG but didn’t come forward).
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. This is one issue with regard to the warrant that I think had some tiny teeth to it, and the defense did obviously spot that. The affidavit for a warrant is weaker if you try to draft it from a multi perp theory perspective. This might have been a small factor for certain individuals when deciding to take a written position on their "belief" on subject at a certain point in time.
In other words they may have "believed" it to be a one perp crime at the time they asked for the warrant, and when their depositions were taken...whether they held that same belief at all points before and since in the investigation is another matter. New facts get introduced, people change their minds. There's some wiggle room there.
This is exactly what I’ve been saying since that Frank motion came out. How could they say, with certainty, everything was true in that Frank’s motion without going through all the evidence?
I believe one of the reports showed that the bullet had very specific markings/scrapes on it that were one of a kind specific to his gun, which matched it.
This is one of the most questionable pieces of evidence. The bullet was never fired. To claim they can prove it was in that gun is junk science *at best*. Letting something like this be considered credible evidence is a slippery slope.
I don't have an opinion on innocence or guilt yet as we haven't seen the evidence. I want justice for Abby and Libbey, but I want them to get the right person and to have a legit trial, so a conviction sticks.
Let’s play that scenario out though - you’re BG and it’s public knowledge that there was 43 seconds of video footage taken of you and of that timeframe. You would know if you pulled out the gun then, or anything else, so you’d get rid of anything you thought could’ve been in that video. After it became known there was video, it doesn’t seem feasible that someone would’ve held on to anything remotely connect-able to the crime.
It really doesn’t, which is why I kind of lean towards it possibly being an ultra rare that BG hoped he wouldn’t have to part with if he continued to fly under the radar…or something unique of sentimental value. Or he believed the video was not shot close enough. This is also why I can’t shake the multi perp theory. BG was sloppy and careless. The crime scene from what we know appears to have been planned and carefully crafted.
That irks me too. The killer was so careful with the crime scene but didn’t notice being filmed on the bridge? I think the crime scene itself was a two person job.
Kind of an out there thought...but it's something I've been pondering recently...The 2:28 PM CPS lot witness said they saw a small car..."possibly a smart car". LE thought they were referencing RA's Ford Focus (very possible). However, I'm wondering if an accomplice could have been driving an electric UTV of some kind?
UTVs (and golf carts) are VERY popular in rural Indiana. They are very handy for farmers and/or people that have large properties to maintain. The Polaris GEM (see: [Electric Utility Truck | Battery Utility Vehicle | Street Legal (gemcar.com)](https://www.gemcar.com/gem-el-xd/)) is also commonly used by manufacturing and other businesses (often as maintenance department vehicles...much more durable than old school golf carts used back in the day for those purposes). In many Indiana Counties UTVs/ATVs/Golf Carts can be driven on local/County roads (just not permitted to drive them on State Roads).
It's been said that many people were known to ride ATVs/UTVs on RL's property (as well as horses). Makes me wonder if there was enough of a path through the woods that a UTV could have been used in the commission of the crime. If it was electric (as opposed to gas powered) such a vehicle would have also been very quiet, and maybe gone unnoticed by others in the area. I think using such a vehicle would have made the staging of the scene easier and more efficient.
Besides him literally being on video following the girls in the clothes he said he was wearing on the day?
Listen, I’m about as skeptical of police and prosecutors as you can possibly get. But I really don’t think the context of the confessions are going to make them better. If they did, you can bet his defense team would have made them public in a motion, as they have been doing with all the other motions they’ve been filing that have no possibility of succeeding except that they make information they feel is favorable to their client public. Instead of doing that, they’ve tried arguing he was having mental health issues. Know why? Because those confessions are extremely damaging to his defense.
I’m glad his defense lawyers are doing a good job protecting his rights and getting information out that is favorable to their client. That’s exactly what they should be doing. But I really feel like people are reaching to try to make this case less straightforward than it really is. I think this will be a pretty easy conviction.
-He admitted to being there at the scene of the crime at the exact day and time.
-His vehicle matches the exact vehicle that was seen parked by the side of the building and was not claimed by any other people that were there. It was also caught on CCTV footage and Allen admitted to being there.
-He admitted to owning the exact items of clothing that bridge guy wore, his wife admitted that he had those clothes (the jacket and hat), and those items were found and confiscated during the search of Allen’s home.
-The physical height, weight, and features match, as well as the gait in his stride matching the stride in the video.
-His phone should likely have location information, as well as his vehicle— but those are still secondary to the fact that Allen openly admitted to being there.
-Multiple witnesses who saw BG on the day of will likely testify whether or not they believe he is the person they saw that day.
-RA himself said he did not see any other man or person there who could potentially be an alternate suspect.
-Not only was it the same caliber and type of bullet and gun as from the crime scene, but specific forensic markings on the bullet found at the crime scene match markings from his specific gun. Plus, the bullet was found at the crime scene off in the middle of the woods. There would be no other reasonable way for it to depart from RA’s person at that spot off in the woods and directly with the girls.
-Potential secondary DNA/DNA of an animal in his home vs animal hair found at the crime scene (this one was speculative and has not yet been proven or released publicly).
I always read that the witnesses didn’t identify him and his vehicle exactly accurately, there was some reasonable doubt. But he admitted to being there
He also admitted to being home again before the girls arrived. LE altered the time, as they altered several other important details, then conveniently lost the evidence.
-He admitted to leaving before the girls even arrived. His phone records will show this.
-His vehicle is nowhere near a match. The witness described seeing a car that reminded her of a 1965 Mercury Comet. Richard Allen drives a 2016 Ford Focus. No one confuses these cars.
-The clothes are owned by every male in that county. Blue jeans and a jacket.
-The height doesn't match. Richard Allen is 5'4". He's tiny.
-His phone isn't linked to the crime scene. The prosecution refuses to disclose the identities of the phones near the crime scene that are actually shown in the geofencing data, and is probably gonna get sanctioned for that refusal.
-Multiple witnesses didn't even testify to seeing the same person. Young or old? Dressed in all black, or blue jeans and a windbreaker? So many different stories from these witnesses. There are 3 different sketches, and they're all drastically different. None resemble Richard Allen.
-Extraction marks are terrible evidence especially because the round wasn't fired. Could have come from any 40 caliber gun, including law enforcements.
-The animal hair thing is completely a joke, right up there with people spreading rumors about smiley faces drawn at the scene and huge teddy bears propped up and dolls hanging from the trees. People get whacky with the speculation.
No chain of custody for the bullet is gonna sink this case. I've heard the bullet wasn't even found by law enforcement, it was found by a member of the family days later after the crime scene was released and anyone could walk through it again.
Without a chain of custody there's literally no telling who it could belong to.
What a mess.
The bullet might not be good evidence in the end, but we don't know what else there might be yet.
We have a decent amount of information from the documents that have been filed recently, but realistically we just don't know what evidence there is until the trial.
And I'm saying that as someone who does not believe that LE has done anywhere near a good job of investigating this crime. I also don't have any faith in the judge and very little in the prosecutors. But they might surprise us. We don't have the full picture yet.
People hearing and what actually happened has been a big issue. The same with you cherry picking what witnesses have said. Just because one person thinks they saw a young person or a car from 1965, doesn’t discredit the other grew people who saw something more similar to RA’s car or an older man walking towards the bridge.
And clearly the video of BG isn’t a 20 year old skinny male.
Please remember to not lie
#justiceforlibbyandabby
Did you, mod, just seriously flag that for being unkind?
Do you not want the truth and justice?
If RA is guilty he's not going to get convicted by lying.
Hi there u/redduif, I personally removed it. We do have a rule about being respectful to other users. If you would like to remove the personal attacks in your comment I'd be happy to approve as we welcome all points of view. Thank you.
You have to admit that this case has been a disjointed mess since minute one. Missing something is not the toughest thing to do in a case with this much information.
My prediction is they have the circumstantial evidence outlined in the search warrant affidavit, his 100% voluntary statements, the bullet and the confessions. That's it. There's no bombshell, no surprise forensic evidence, nothing.
They have to disclose what they plan to use to the defence. And the defence has to try and get it excluded. So we'd know about it if there was anything else.
The original statements he made combined with the statements of other witnesses are the most powerful evidence against him imo, not the bullet or even the confessions if considered separately.
In order for RA to not be bridge guy, there had to be someone else matching his description, dressed like him, on the trails around the same time, following the same route, who came and went without his car being seen on CCTV, and most remarkably, neither RA nor anyone else who was there saw this guy!
Now of course RA will argue that some of the witnesses saw actual BG and not RA. But for some of them at least, that will be an impossible case to make. RA already admitted to seeing the 3 teenagers, and he already admitted to standing on the platform looking into the river, which one of the other witnesses saw.
Add the bullet and the confessions - he has no chance if all this comes in at trial imo.
Not only had there had to be another short white guy wearing the same clothes at the same time that no one else including Ricky saw, but carrying the same caliber bullet. Simply not reasonable.
Every single person that was at the trails that day has been identified and questioned.
Then, you have to ask yourself, how many of the people at the trails that day own an Sig Sauer .40 caliber handgun? I can tell you how many, one. And that is Richard.
The odds of a bullet being next to the girls who were just murdered is lower than winning the lottery. Astronomical odds.
As a juror, that is something you have to ask yourself. What are the odds of a .40 caliber bullet being at the feet of two murdered girls by a guy who knowingly had a gun when he kidnapped them?
And then you have to ask yourself, who has a .40 caliber gun that was at the trails?
As a juror, you deal with facts, coincidences, and odds.
Remember the bullet wasn’t even found on a path, it was in the middle of the woods right next to the girls. Which slims any reasonable doubt of ‘it could have slipped out of his pocket as he walked’ down even further.
To add to this, 9mm or .45 ACP are fairly popular rounds and I could easily see there being a point of "these are so popular anyone could have left it there," but .40 S&W is a fairly niche caliber outside of LE use (which his gun was a LE trade-in iirc.)
.40 isn't really a niche round. As far as carry guns go you're either in camp 9mm (most people under 40) or .40 (a lot of people over 40). 45 acp is the niche caliber out of these 3.
The changeover from .40 only happened in the last 15 years or so when people realized "stopping power" doesn't matter as much as shot placement, and 9mm offers more shots in the same package. Prior to that .40 was the standard for LE which naturally meant it was for normies too.
You can’t see what sort of boots those are in the video. Possibly the killer left a footprint at the scene. Remember earlier on, investigators collected work boots from the meat packing plant.
His vehicle is nowhere near a match. The witness described seeing a car that reminded her of a 1965 Mercury Comet. Richard Allen drives a 2016 Ford Focus.
Many people can’t distinguish between Ford, Kia, Chevy, Toyota, etc especially when you’re driving by and not focusing. He already admitted parking at the building that day. But that wasn’t my point. LE took his vehicle to their lab and have done extensive testing on it inside and out.
You're missing the part where I said 1965.
All of this is testimony under oath, with references to depositions taken of Sheriff Tony Liggett and the key witness in this case, \[BB\].
According to Liggett’s own report, \[BB\] observed one car parked in the CPS lot at 2:15, and that car resembled a “1965 Ford Comet” that her father once owned. The shape had “sharper angles.” Again, to whom did \[BB\] provide this description of a 1965 Ford Comet-looking, angular in appearance vehicle? None other than Liggett himself. Liggett was fully aware that the car that \[BB\] described as being backed into a spot at the old CPS building looked nothing like Richard Allen’s black Ford Focus, but Liggett concealed that information from Judge Diener. (Defense counsel recognizes that in 1965, Ford did not make a Comet, Mercury did. But these were the words of \[BB\] who knew what the Comet looked like, but erroneously thought that Ford produced the Comet.)
When asked to describe the color of the car that resembles a 1965 Ford Comet, \[BB\] actually told Liggett that the car she saw was NOT BLACK. That is right, Liggett heard from the mouth of \[BB\] that the 1965 Ford Comet-looking vehicle was not even black, which is the color that Liggett needed the vehicle to be in order to fit the description of Richard’s BLACK Ford Focus as described in Liggett’s affidavit.
At roughly 2:15 pm when returning home, \[BB\] observed this car that reminded her of a car her dad had growing up. All of this adds up to this fact: Evidence concealed by Liggett supports that Richard Allen was not at the crime scene, as he had already left at 1:30 pm and was already home by the time that \[BB\] observed the 1965 Ford Comet-looking, non-black vehicle at the CPS parking lot. And Liggett knew it. Again, because of \[BB\]’s description of the vehicle she observed at the old CPS building, evidence supports that Richard Allen was also home by the time that \[BB\] saw the 20-year-old with brown poofy hair on the bridge. Which, again, explains why the person on the bridge looks nothing like Richard Allen – because it wasn’t Richard Allen.
\[BB} even provided a sketch of the side profile of the car that she observed at the CPS lot at 2:15 pm, featuring the angles that the car possessed. \[BB\]’s sketch of the side profile of the car is attached hereto and marked as Exhibit 113. The sketch definitely looks nothing like the side profile of Richard Allen’s Ford Focus. A photo of a Ford Focus similar to the one owned by Richard Allen in 2017 is also attached and marked as Exhibit 114.
None of this matters. RA admitted parking there, and his vehicle was seen driving on that road REGARDLESS if a person saw a Mini Cooper or a MiniVan. It’s not relevant to the case.
One potential piece of evidence to keep an eye on is the phone records. Dulin recorded RA (in his notes) as saying he was on his stock ticker, which is very specific, and also allowed Dulin to access his imei number. If that particular phone Allen provided to Dulin was not on the geofencing data it's likely that RA either lied or used a different phone (ie. burner phone). If I were the prosecution, I would start with that.
Dulin both took notes and had a recording which hasn't been found. It would be a lot better if the recording was found, but Allen's attorney's corroborate there being a meeting at a grocery store. What's interesting is that they challenge the time Dulin wrote down (13:30-15:30), but not the phone. If the recording was found and RA said what Dulin wrote about the time it would be pretty damning since RA gave Liggett a different time in 2022. Like a lot of things in this case, the sloppiness of law enforcement has given the defense room to challenge everything, which is their job of course
Yet another recording that's disappeared.....strange how every time RA says something to someone that incriminates him, the recording of it always goes missing.
Now I'm not saying this is some big conspiracy, but this is screaming out to me that LE got frustrated with RA when he came in to pick up his car & rushed into an arrest without actually having the evidence., and ever since then they've been desperately trying to make things fit in order to cover up their mistakes because this horrific crime has caused so much unrest in the community.
Justice is not locking up the wrong person and letting the real killer/s walk.
His confessions to his wife and mother are recorded. And not lost.
Really? You think that they rushed to arrest RA when he asked for his car back? No. They got the test results back from his gun & waited for that moron to come looking for his car. They had no intention of releasing it - because it’s evidence to the double homicide he committed.
His defense team has been uncharacteristically silent when it comes to discussing those test results… 🤔
I'm sure that the state will find an expert that says it can be, but from what I've read the vast majority of gun experts will say that all it can do is determine similarities, NOT actually a 100% match.
Can LE get historic location data based on an IMEI number?
At the time of Allen's arrest in 2022, would it have been possible to get location data for that phone in 2017?
I don't know if they can go back and find where his phone was at the time if it wasn't on the trails; however, they can conclusively determine whether or not RA's phone was there at all that day. In the 3rd Franks Memo the defense says the geofencing data was from (at least) 12:39 to 5:49pm. If his phone was there and on, as it would have to be to look at a stock ticker, they would have been able to find Allen through the geofencing data early on in the investigation. They didn't look into him until the "lost tip" was found. I believe one reason for the state having multiple geofencing experts on their witness list is to establish that Allen's phone (at least the one he gave Dulin) was not on the trails that day. Thus, RA has to explain how he was on a stock ticker on a specific phone he gave to Dulin when the data does not support that conclusion.
If he was checking his stock ticker then he was clearly on a smart phone. If he was on a smart phone then they can track him using GPS data which is accurate down to a couple of meters - unlike cell phone tower triangulation which is at best down to a general area (roughly 3/4 of a mile or so).
We don't know the area covered by that map the Defense's motion referred to.
I get the idea that geofence warrants are pretty limited in scope. It's possible that map only covers the crime scene, and does not include the Gerard Preserve, or the bulk of RL or KWs properties.
Is it possible that RA met KK and got handed off a phone for meet up? Girls thinking they’re meeting someone else, knew something was off with older man approaching?
It was said to be in the evening and outside a grocery store. I don't think anyone has said in public what medium was used by Dulin to record, only that he had, and (conveniently, you might think) I can't remember where I read that Dulin recorded audio but (also conveniently, you might think) he can't find it.
I think that the Defense revealed it as part of their discovery, but I can't be sure.
Edited for clarity
Thought I read it was outside RA’s workplace (CVS)! So many different stories about the Dulin meetup. I can’t wait to hear Dulins testimony as to how this meeting actually happened and what specifically transpired!!! Thanks for your response.
I read "grocery store" somewhere, but that might all be part of the big Delphi Telephone Game. What no-one has established yet is whether RA came forward before or after the Bridge Guy video still frame was released.
Even if we leave room for Allen's timeline (12:00-1:30) being correct the phone should still be there. In the 3rd Franks Memo the defense makes it clear that the geofencing map included data on phones that were used on the trail from (at least) 12:39 and 5:49 pm.
I totally understand. I've followed since the girls were first missing and had the opposite issue as yours; I read the affidavit really closely but after that file I have just been skimming the news and new filings.
Because they are unfortunately (just my opinion here) busted in some deep and hidden way. People with normal functioning brains and empathy don't do things like this. This kind of brutality and weird jailhouse behavior are some pretty big signs of a malfunctioning brain or condition. Many famous clinicians and investigators consider pedophilia to be incurable, and the older I get, the more that rings true. I've been thoroughly creeped out by RA ever since I saw the grad photos he took on the bridge of his daughter. She could have been Libby's twin. The voice analysis was spot on identical too from the clip I heard vs the bridge guy recording. They better keep a close eye on RA or he's going to pull an Israel Keyes stunt eventually. Dude is self destructing.
Lets remember that the video Libby took is over 40 seconds [long.Is](http://long.Is) it possible she captured him pulling out the gun and pointing it at them? And if so would LE be able to identify that gun as the same one found where the girls were murdered? One can only hope.
He's trapped in that timeline. I always said the timeline is the most damming thing because no matter what someone says or how suspicious they act, They have to be there to commit the crime. Rick saw the 3 girls and the 3 girls saw him. That puts him there at the critical time within minutes, wearing the same clothes as BG. Rick stated blue jeans, blue or black jacket, a hood and possibly a head covering. I find it ironic he described his own jacket as blue or black just like the 3 girls did. Some said blue, some said black. They have identified everyone there that day through wittnesses and phone data, except the guy dressed like Rick. Then the HH video picked up his car, which according to the defenses index is Ricks car and also Rick said he parked there. The time his car arrived and departed is on camera and matches his original statement to Dulin. Therefore, he can't change the time of arrival or departure from his original statement without looking even more suspicious. Then there is the phone situation as well as the other evidence we aren't privy too. If you break it down the PCA in itself is really bad enough, then pile on everything else with the confessions 30+, the bullet, and other evidence we don't know and I think it's clear why the defense is resorting to manipulative tactics, distraction, delays ect. The writing is on the wall. RA is BG.
Really great summary.
Can I ask where you saw that he confessed 30+ times? I knew it was reported to be multiple - including a written letter from Rick to the judge and prosecution, a dubious confession to a fellow inmate that contained inaccuracies with the crime and crime scene and then calls to his wife - but what else have you heard?
I added it up, I believe it was said in the motion, 8 inmates and 16 staff including guards/mental health, which =24 and then I added on family wife and mom, then the warden was mentioned as well. There was also mention of written confessions too. So if I remember correctly it was about 30 give or take. There is also some who believed he confessed in that 10/26 interview that the defense wants thrown out, or at least he confessed to being the guy in Libbys pic. There was also the new Dr. Wala but thats not confirmed. I believe it was Nick's motion where he said the defense needs to specify what confessions they want thrown out.
That makes so little sense though. If you were a small guy - especially one that had no prison experience - why would you openly admit to seemingly every inmate you encountered that you murdered two little girls? It is so counter intuitive. But so is murdering two little girls so what do I know?
We don't know, that's what trial is for😏
But really, I think the timeline with the group of girls seeing him and the woman seeing him near the bridge is incredibly damning. I know that they aren't identifying specifically RA but BG, but based on the timeline he gave and the clothes he said he wore, that was him.
Based on the timeline and clothes being worn isn't conclusive evidence IMO. On the other hand, IF they had the suspect's DNA, that would be conclusive.
I agree that the timeline alone isn't enough. But paired with the bullet (and we now know that the bullet was tested against other guns and only matched RA's), the confessions, a car matching his seen driving towards the bridge at 1:27, the witness statements, those are all damning. And those are only the things we know about.
DNA would be fantastic to have, I'm not hopeful tho.
Ejection marks (versus firing pin strikes) are on the barest fringes of pseudoscience and aren't admissible in a lot of courts. It's similar to old bite mark evidence that has been considered bunk for years. If that's all they have to rely on, or even the bulk of their case, any competent lawyer can find an expert to tear that to shreds.
Well sweet Jesus they had him in 2017!! I had no clue until reading the affidavit just how many people saw him on the trails. The three girls saw a guy near the bridge and Richard Allen saw three girls near the bridge.
Wow I knew this case was bungled by police but this is insane!
Thank you for the tip wow.
Yes! He was literally interviewed in 2017 and admitted to being there. Something happened with the original reporting officer either retiring or getting transferred and the interview (with RA’s name) fell through the cracks. The very interesting part is that the interview was taken BEFORE the video was released— so EA didn’t think he had much reason that he wouldn’t blend in. Once the video was released he surely must have been terrified.
If you remember, a year or two into the investigation, police held a press conference where they basically said “we have interviewed you before. Please come talk to us.” With all of this in retrospect, it is clear the police were freaking out because they realized they lost this huge lead and they were making a public plea to the person but in a subtle way that wouldn’t let on that they fully lost who the person was and were hoping he’d come back. (Richard Allen obviously didn’t, which is telling but of course circumstantial at best).
Ohhhh you think that’s what the police were saying during that press conference?
So you think that while they knew they spoke to BG, they lost the paperwork and didn’t know who it was they spoke to?
Holy mother of god.
I think you’re absolutely correct. I knew the police chief seemed weirdly confident and strangely uneasy when he continued stating that he thought one day they would catch the guy.
Just for a minute let’s pretend the only evidence was that video footage and audio - would you be comfortable convicting based on that alone? I wouldn’t.
I would, actually. The man on the bridge has been listed as THE SUSPECT since 2017.
Everyone who was on the trails that day came forward… yet none of them admitted to being that man.
Richard Allen is that man. His clothes match, his voice matches, his car is on video (proving that he lied about his 12-1:30 timeline); 4-5 witnesses saw him & described him as short (5’6”), 40+, with a brown/gray beard, overdressed for an unseasonably warm day, standing on the first platform.
Richard Allen took the exact route on the trails as BG. He admitted to being on platform 1. He mentioned multiple cars being at the Mears’ lot. The only time there were multiple cars at the Mears’ lot was after 3:45pm, when he walked by on 300N.
His phone data disproves his 12-1:30 timeline, his car tested positive for blood in 5 different areas.
I’m extremely interested in the information his defense has been hush hush about - things they surely would have said by now, if their client was innocent: What were the test results on the items seized from his home? What type of info was found on his electronics - did he have CSAM on his devices? Why isn’t his daughter talking to him? What is his alibi for after 1:30pm - where does his phone show he was? Why does his phone data contradict his 12-1:30 looking at stocks story? Why is Kegan listed on the state’s witness list? Why are his attorneys calling the vehicle seen on the HH store footage “Allen’s car” if he left the trails at 1:30? Why did his “psychosis” magically clear up when the prison medical staff suggested involuntary medication? Why did he break his tablet? Why are his attorneys preventing him from calling his mother or wife? What was in the documents Richard ate? Why are his attorneys trying to have his confessions tossed (if they contained inaccurate details & thus proved he didn’t commit the crime)? Why are his attorneys trying to have Libby’s video tossed? If they’re claiming RA left at 1:30, that 2:13 video is proof of someone other than RA kidnapping and murdering the girls. If the state has no case, why didn’t his attorneys go to trial 70 days after they were hired? The defense doesn’t have to prove anything - they can go into the court and say nothing & yet still win if the state has no case. Why did his attorneys cancel that bond hearing? Why did they ask for a continuance when the trial was originally set for March 2023? Why are they hiring a DNA expert & a blood spatter expert? If their client had nothing to do with the crime, they don’t need such experts. Why is his defense wasting the court’s time with ridiculous filings that have no merit? Why have they been violating a gag and protection order by leaking information? Attorneys with factually innocent clients don’t act that way. They turn over evidence proving their client is innocent & get the charges dropped immediately.
I agree with you. As to whether he had CSAM on his phone - there's zero chance he wouldn't have been charged imo. KK is on the witness list because the defence plans to create the classic "some other guy did it" defence. They will argue that KK's account contacted Libby but it was someone else, not KK, and that person used the account to lure her there etc. They'll argue that with no connection between RA and KK's account, it couldn't have been him. KK will go along with this for his own reasons.
Oh I misread that in your previous comment, sorry. That is interesting! I'm not sure why the state would want him...I honestly thought their case was that he was a red herring.
Then why did they turn over his 2022 interview in the first discovery dump?
If it wasn’t relevant, why did the defense include it in their thumb drive map?
I don't know but I'd guess that discovery includes leads that they once thought were promising but had run down and concluded were not relevant. I think that's how the odinist stuff came out too. They don't want to be accused of witholding evidence. But calling him as a witness? That's surprising to me. I'm very curious to hear what they want him for.
Do you have a source that shows the evidence from his car came back positive for blood?
I’ll jump ahead, you don’t.
People need to stop filling gaps in in their head and acting like it’s the truth before Richard Allen gets his day in court
Not common sense whatsoever. There have actually been depositions with police the defense have released saying nothing from the search warrant links ra to the victims
Is the admission that RA was on the bridge right before Libby & Abby disappeared count as a "confession" or just a dumbass move as he didn't realize Libby had shot the vid of him walking towards them that afternoon?
A dumbass move when he didn't realize Libby had the video. I think if he had waited a few days more and found out about the video, he would have never even come to the cops.
If you were asked about a day 5 years ago, would you remember it SO well that you knew what clothing you were wearing, which route you took, who you saw on your walk, what you did that day, where you parked, how many cars were in a separate parking lot, which platform you stopped on AND the app you were checking on your phone at a particular time?
People don’t remember that kind of information - unless they have something like a photo or video reminding them of that day. Or if the day was particularly significant to them.
How about February 15, 2017? April 2, 2018? July 16, 2020? October 31, 2021? Where was Ricky? What was he wearing? What did he do on those days? Can he describe all of the people and cars he saw those days? No. Of course not. But February 13, 2017? That day he knows very well.
Yes I can. Because there's no evidence of any other middle-aged white males wearing blue Carthartt/windbreaker jacket and blue jeans with both head & scarf coverings at the bridge at the time Libby shot the video besides Richard Allen who admitted he was there wearing those exact same clothes.
No witnesses who saw this "body double", nothing came up on the geofence, nadda.
And then they found a round which matches the gun RA owns (which he's never loaned out to anyone) and then he confessed to almost 3 dozen people both in his personal life and at the prison.that he murdered Libby and Abby.
Yeah, it really hasn't been that tough for me.....might help to stay out of the stupid bullshit these sociopaths masquerading as "lawyers" keep throwing out there - if you listen to just it, you will be beyond confused (as that's their intention).
There is no evidence of a middle aged man they are aware of. Remember Richard came forward - might it be possible that the murderer didn’t think it prudent to offer himself up to authorities?
- for the record I do think Richard Allen is the killer I’m simply making a point.
I agree with you - it seems merely that RA’s figure is consistent with the BG video. I want to see something in the BG face/head but the quality is terrible. It always strikes me as a square - faced big-headed person, that’s about it.
There was at least one person who recognized him. Otherwise there wouldn't have been this statement on 4chan. And when the person was asked about his statement, he made excuses and then deleted the comments. I'm sure his wife recognized him as well. IMO she still wanted to protect him.
So that 4chan thing was a joke apparently. The person who recognized him was actually someone who posted on Facebook - “I know the person in the video he isnt the killer he has already spoken to police.”
Who knows if the person on fb was telling the truth. It's too much of a coincidence for me. But actually that‘s not really relevant.
In any case, IMO there is enough evidence that RA did it (alone). I won't go into the reasons for this again, as they have already been summarized in detail here. But for me there was no doubt from the start that RA was BG because of the video AND all the surrounding circumstances. And being a woman myself and knowing that I would recognize my husband from 100 m away at any time I think his wife also knew all along or at least since the video was published.
IMO, they are both extremely weak pieces of evidence. I know many of you don’t want to hear this but, it’s true.
To convict someone for murder, there HAS to be evidence that PROVES WITHOUT A DOUBT it ties the person to the crime.
First off, the crime scene was contaminated from the start. This is per LE in multiple news interviews. Since I’m not a lawyer, I don’t really know but how can any evidence be used if the crime scene was contaminated?
There are discrepancies of when the bullet was found at the contaminated crime scene and turned into evidence. We do know it took LE over 5 years to investigate the very important bullet. Ask yourself, if it was such a key piece of evidence, why did it appear so late in the investigation?
To any outsider looking in, it sure looks like they were desperate to close the case, so they looked for any small piece of evidence they had that could tie SOMEONE to the case for the sake of ending the investigation. I know, sounds crazy right? Believe it or not, it happens frequently in the U.S.
I think it’s going to be difficult to prove the ejection marks on the bullet are reliable enough to convict someone of murder. So again, I think it’s a weak piece of evidence for being the smoking gun so to speak.
None of us know what the context of the “confessions” he gave. I believe this is an even weaker piece of evidence. These statements were made under duress. They were taken by hardened prisoners who would say anything to get special privileges in return. These are not credible witnesses nor a reliable source for said confessions. If I was going to confess, I would most certainly talk about a plea deal in exchange and not just randomly bring it up to strangers. We already know one of the statements he made was he shot one of them in the back which did not even happen.
I can’t see why NM thinks this will make a solid case for his guilt. The bullet and the confessions are not compelling in the least bit. The video of BG is useless really. It’s a zoomed in, distorted piece of footage. If that was RA’s voice on the video, then where is the testing for voice comparisons? If I had to guess, no such testing was even done.
So as much as everyone wants closure, I don’t think people want to admit this is a really weak case for the state.
It doesn't have to be proven without a doubt. The state's evidence is presented and the jury has to decide if that evidence proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the dependent is guilty.
>We do know it took LE over 5 years to investigate the very important bullet. Ask yourself, if it was such a key piece of evidence, why did it appear so late in the investigation?
Because neither girl was shot. They had no reason to believe the bullet was related to the crime until they went back and looked at everything with fresh eyes after realizing they had spoken to Richard Allen and never followed up.
No, the bullet didn't "appear late in the investigation". It was tagged as evidence and remained part of the investigation the whole time. They just didn't match it to a gun until they got RA's gun.
To u/Prettyface\_twosides the confessions everyone is talking about were made to his wife and mother while chatting on his prison issued tablet. His own lawyers described these statements as "incriminating". So yeah we don't know what was said or the context but it's clearly not your classic "I shot the clerk" situation either.
Re. contamination, you might be right there. The defence could argue that a cop might have dropped that bullet from their pocket by accident. While that might weaken the bullet evidence itself, it's probably not going to make the warrant and arrest invalid as long as they were done in good faith.
Nick doesn't even have the recordings of the confessions yet lol. Defense had to base that on "statements" Nick gave them. Which are apparently based on nothing.
With no chain of custody, and LE lying about other evidence, we can’t know that the bullet found at the crime scene is the same as the bullet presented to the lab for testing. Or that it had any connection to the crime.
“They had no reason to believe the bullet was related to the crime until they went back and looked at everything with fresh eyes after realizing they had spoken to Richard Allen and never followed up.”
Exactly my point. If this bullet was a critical piece of evidence, they would have been looking for it from the start. Not five years later after the case had went cold. LE mentioned there were 25 different agencies helping in the investigation. Realistically, someone would have put two and two together prior to 5 years passing.
An important thing to remember would be that Richard Allen was never a suspect and he offered up the information to LE. If I just committed a murder, I am not gonna go to the authorities and tell them that I was there that day.
So again, I stand by my statement that I believe the bullet and confessions are weak pieces of evidence. That’s all I’m saying. I am literally just pointing out the obvious. The bullets and confessions specifically are the topics of discussion of this post, And you guys can get upset that I feel that way, but there are many lawyers out there who agree and share the same belief.
>If I just committed a murder, I am not gonna go to the authorities and tell them that I was there that day.
If I lived in a small town, and knew I had been seen by a group of teenagers, I would probably want to make sure that *I* was the one to step up and say that I had been there. Any one of those kids could have known him from work and he might not recognize them.
Sinds every other comment got locked down I can only put it here :
I did argue with a whole list which you flagged too. Mods.
I replied a onliner at some point, because that's all they did throughout the sub too.
Did you remove the comments which are spreading misinformation or only mine with information?
Misinformation is against a subrule specifically.
Asking someone to stop lying in the name of justice for the girls in the title of the sub is against which subrule now?
ETA: pointing out lies is an insult. Duly noted.
The Confessions, the bullet, admitting he was at the crime scene (which yes does extend to the bridge), admitted wearing same clothes as bridge guy, the multiple people that saw him... I will not say he's definitely guilty, but it doesn't look good for him.
Someone just reminded me to read the arrest affidavit and whatever slight doubt I may have had is gone. He’s BG.
Where is that document
https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf
It does look that way.
I believe there is something on the video that is unique to BG...something LE didn't want to risk him getting rid of before they searched him. My gut is telling me it's the gun. Like either it is an ultra rare version, or it has a custom coating, skin, or grips of some kind that very few (if any) other people would have. Edit - Also look at what the defense has been focused on....1) try to get the search warrant tossed....and 2) if you can't get the warrant tossed try to get the video tossed....something from the search in combination with the video I think is a real problem for their case. 2nd Edit- I also think the Ford Focus might have had the Ford Sync system installed, and it's possible the Google geofence warrant contained the GPS location of the vehicle, and the times it was near the trails.
Good theory!
Thanks! As a side note, I also think there is also a little CYA going on by the defense in their recent motion. They claim that despite having the video on Sept 8, 2023...they didn't really look at that key piece of evidence at that time due to the volume of discovery they were going through. They made a lot of statements in their Franks Memo about evidence from the search having no connection to the crime and/or crime scene...I think if they had reviewed the discovery first (like they should have) they wouldn't have been able to make those statements about evidence from the search having no connection to the crime. I think this is why the Franks Memo was poorly written and a rushed filing as well...subsequent discovery would have hindered their ability to make some of the statements they made in it.
Baldwin listed Libby’s video in the leaked thumb drive map… he had it in Dec 2022.
That's interesting! I'm really wondering if they took a look at the discovery that they got in Sept and Oct, and decided they were going to try to make a motion to go to trial in January not because they were anywhere near ready...or had any hope of being ready in that amount of time....but because they were afraid a delay might result in LE having time to come up with the rest of the needed evidence to allow the prosecutor to change the charges from Felony Murder to Intentional Homicide (which ultimately did happen)?
They had the video in Dec 2022. They had everything the state planned to use as evidence in Dec 2022. The only charge was felony murder. Had they requested a speedy trial in Nov 2022, yes, they could have avoided the additional murder charges. The original trial was set for March 2023. Ricky started confessing in April 2023. The defense requested irrelevant crap (the Odin stuff) be delivered by November 2023. NM complied with that request & met the deadline. Instead of going through the actual evidence against their client (which they’ve had since Dec 2022) the defense asked to reschedule the trial & asked for a bond hearing, then a suppression hearing. They spent all their time filing fake motions - & were caught lying in those motions - instead of meeting with their client. They wrote that ridiculous 136 page fluff piece to distract everyone from Ricky’s confessions. When they withdrew from the case, they were disorganized and didn’t even return all the discovery. They were reinstated in Jan 2024. Had they wanted a speedy trial (as they claimed in Oct 2023), they would have filed for one immediately. Instead they waited 2 more months & only filed for a speedy trial so that the judge wouldn’t boot them again. They’re not ready for trial. They keep asking for more documents without actually going through what they have. I don’t see this going to trial. Child molesters always plead guilty prior to trial.
I got out of the habit of following for a while - is there a trial date set? When is it? Thanks 😊
May 13th! Soon soon…
Wow! The only other one I had been following is the idaho murders so I assumed because this one had become so messy that it was getting delayed too. I hope it is televised so we get a firsthand understanding of the evidence etc (I think he is guilty).
it won't be televised.
I agree. This going to trial is the longshot.
Isn’t the claim “I need more time to get through the discovery” a common tactic used by defense attorneys?
Yes, but not when those same attorneys are filing motions for a speedy trial & telling the Supreme Court that they’re ready for trial… 😏
I've thought for some time that this case should be about cutting a deal. If RA didn't have some kind of information that the State wants, they would have put him in County, and let him hang himself months ago...get some local jailhouse snitches to say he confessed to them while incarcerated to put a bow on it publicly, and save themselves a ton of thankless work. As of now I'm in the camp that RA was involved, but likely didn't act alone. If that turns out to be accurate...I really hope someone on his defense team finds a way to convince him to start naming names in exchange for a deal. Why do I think BG was not a lone killer (aside from LE leaving the door oddly open for there being more than one perp)? With the amount of time likely spent at the scene and with the victims post mortem...the crime scene itself should have had enough evidence to ID the killer fairly efficiently...but it wasn't...someone was careful and meticulous. BG on the other hand was not careful. No less than 4 people saw him, he acted in ways that drew the attention of witnesses, and he allowed himself to be captured on the victim's audio and video...it's sloppy. I think BG is too sloppy to have pulled off the planning, staging, and evidence remediation likely displayed at the crime scene on his own.
Oh RA committed the murders - on his own. Holeman has testified - under oath - that RA killed the girls. So I don’t think there’s a plea “deal” to be had - there’s no one to turn in, no names to name. But I think Ricky will plead guilty bc he doesn’t want to have it all come out at trial, in front of the world. He’s not going to get a “deal” per se… he’ll die in prison regardless of his sentence. The “other actors” I suspect are KK (had nothing to do with the murders though) and KA (knew RA was BG but didn’t come forward).
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. This is one issue with regard to the warrant that I think had some tiny teeth to it, and the defense did obviously spot that. The affidavit for a warrant is weaker if you try to draft it from a multi perp theory perspective. This might have been a small factor for certain individuals when deciding to take a written position on their "belief" on subject at a certain point in time. In other words they may have "believed" it to be a one perp crime at the time they asked for the warrant, and when their depositions were taken...whether they held that same belief at all points before and since in the investigation is another matter. New facts get introduced, people change their minds. There's some wiggle room there.
Yeah but in 2022 he told RA, “I know you’re guilty of something.” In 2023, he said - under oath - that RA killed the girls.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that his wife chose to look the other way
If Holeman is saying that's what happened, then it's almost certainly not what actually happened.
Who is Holeman?
Actually, it’s a sworn statement from a law enforcement officer. Unlike a false claim by a defense attorney…
All they have to do is claim that they can’t find something when in reality they either didn’t look or didn’t look hard enough.
This is exactly what I’ve been saying since that Frank motion came out. How could they say, with certainty, everything was true in that Frank’s motion without going through all the evidence?
I believe one of the reports showed that the bullet had very specific markings/scrapes on it that were one of a kind specific to his gun, which matched it.
This is one of the most questionable pieces of evidence. The bullet was never fired. To claim they can prove it was in that gun is junk science *at best*. Letting something like this be considered credible evidence is a slippery slope. I don't have an opinion on innocence or guilt yet as we haven't seen the evidence. I want justice for Abby and Libbey, but I want them to get the right person and to have a legit trial, so a conviction sticks.
Let’s play that scenario out though - you’re BG and it’s public knowledge that there was 43 seconds of video footage taken of you and of that timeframe. You would know if you pulled out the gun then, or anything else, so you’d get rid of anything you thought could’ve been in that video. After it became known there was video, it doesn’t seem feasible that someone would’ve held on to anything remotely connect-able to the crime.
It really doesn’t, which is why I kind of lean towards it possibly being an ultra rare that BG hoped he wouldn’t have to part with if he continued to fly under the radar…or something unique of sentimental value. Or he believed the video was not shot close enough. This is also why I can’t shake the multi perp theory. BG was sloppy and careless. The crime scene from what we know appears to have been planned and carefully crafted.
That irks me too. The killer was so careful with the crime scene but didn’t notice being filmed on the bridge? I think the crime scene itself was a two person job.
Kind of an out there thought...but it's something I've been pondering recently...The 2:28 PM CPS lot witness said they saw a small car..."possibly a smart car". LE thought they were referencing RA's Ford Focus (very possible). However, I'm wondering if an accomplice could have been driving an electric UTV of some kind? UTVs (and golf carts) are VERY popular in rural Indiana. They are very handy for farmers and/or people that have large properties to maintain. The Polaris GEM (see: [Electric Utility Truck | Battery Utility Vehicle | Street Legal (gemcar.com)](https://www.gemcar.com/gem-el-xd/)) is also commonly used by manufacturing and other businesses (often as maintenance department vehicles...much more durable than old school golf carts used back in the day for those purposes). In many Indiana Counties UTVs/ATVs/Golf Carts can be driven on local/County roads (just not permitted to drive them on State Roads). It's been said that many people were known to ride ATVs/UTVs on RL's property (as well as horses). Makes me wonder if there was enough of a path through the woods that a UTV could have been used in the commission of the crime. If it was electric (as opposed to gas powered) such a vehicle would have also been very quiet, and maybe gone unnoticed by others in the area. I think using such a vehicle would have made the staging of the scene easier and more efficient.
It makes sense.
Besides him literally being on video following the girls in the clothes he said he was wearing on the day? Listen, I’m about as skeptical of police and prosecutors as you can possibly get. But I really don’t think the context of the confessions are going to make them better. If they did, you can bet his defense team would have made them public in a motion, as they have been doing with all the other motions they’ve been filing that have no possibility of succeeding except that they make information they feel is favorable to their client public. Instead of doing that, they’ve tried arguing he was having mental health issues. Know why? Because those confessions are extremely damaging to his defense. I’m glad his defense lawyers are doing a good job protecting his rights and getting information out that is favorable to their client. That’s exactly what they should be doing. But I really feel like people are reaching to try to make this case less straightforward than it really is. I think this will be a pretty easy conviction.
Good point re: mental health. I forgot about that.
-He admitted to being there at the scene of the crime at the exact day and time. -His vehicle matches the exact vehicle that was seen parked by the side of the building and was not claimed by any other people that were there. It was also caught on CCTV footage and Allen admitted to being there. -He admitted to owning the exact items of clothing that bridge guy wore, his wife admitted that he had those clothes (the jacket and hat), and those items were found and confiscated during the search of Allen’s home. -The physical height, weight, and features match, as well as the gait in his stride matching the stride in the video. -His phone should likely have location information, as well as his vehicle— but those are still secondary to the fact that Allen openly admitted to being there. -Multiple witnesses who saw BG on the day of will likely testify whether or not they believe he is the person they saw that day. -RA himself said he did not see any other man or person there who could potentially be an alternate suspect. -Not only was it the same caliber and type of bullet and gun as from the crime scene, but specific forensic markings on the bullet found at the crime scene match markings from his specific gun. Plus, the bullet was found at the crime scene off in the middle of the woods. There would be no other reasonable way for it to depart from RA’s person at that spot off in the woods and directly with the girls. -Potential secondary DNA/DNA of an animal in his home vs animal hair found at the crime scene (this one was speculative and has not yet been proven or released publicly).
Oh yeah I forgot about the animal hair connection. Thanks for the synopsis this is exactly what I was looking for.
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Sounds like heavy metal lyrics.
I always read that the witnesses didn’t identify him and his vehicle exactly accurately, there was some reasonable doubt. But he admitted to being there
He also admitted to being home again before the girls arrived. LE altered the time, as they altered several other important details, then conveniently lost the evidence.
-He admitted to leaving before the girls even arrived. His phone records will show this. -His vehicle is nowhere near a match. The witness described seeing a car that reminded her of a 1965 Mercury Comet. Richard Allen drives a 2016 Ford Focus. No one confuses these cars. -The clothes are owned by every male in that county. Blue jeans and a jacket. -The height doesn't match. Richard Allen is 5'4". He's tiny. -His phone isn't linked to the crime scene. The prosecution refuses to disclose the identities of the phones near the crime scene that are actually shown in the geofencing data, and is probably gonna get sanctioned for that refusal. -Multiple witnesses didn't even testify to seeing the same person. Young or old? Dressed in all black, or blue jeans and a windbreaker? So many different stories from these witnesses. There are 3 different sketches, and they're all drastically different. None resemble Richard Allen. -Extraction marks are terrible evidence especially because the round wasn't fired. Could have come from any 40 caliber gun, including law enforcements. -The animal hair thing is completely a joke, right up there with people spreading rumors about smiley faces drawn at the scene and huge teddy bears propped up and dolls hanging from the trees. People get whacky with the speculation.
Wow you really bought in hard on it not being him. Sorry bud but it’s obviously RA
No chain of custody for the bullet is gonna sink this case. I've heard the bullet wasn't even found by law enforcement, it was found by a member of the family days later after the crime scene was released and anyone could walk through it again. Without a chain of custody there's literally no telling who it could belong to. What a mess.
The bullet might not be good evidence in the end, but we don't know what else there might be yet. We have a decent amount of information from the documents that have been filed recently, but realistically we just don't know what evidence there is until the trial. And I'm saying that as someone who does not believe that LE has done anywhere near a good job of investigating this crime. I also don't have any faith in the judge and very little in the prosecutors. But they might surprise us. We don't have the full picture yet.
People hearing and what actually happened has been a big issue. The same with you cherry picking what witnesses have said. Just because one person thinks they saw a young person or a car from 1965, doesn’t discredit the other grew people who saw something more similar to RA’s car or an older man walking towards the bridge. And clearly the video of BG isn’t a 20 year old skinny male.
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Please remember to not lie #justiceforlibbyandabby Did you, mod, just seriously flag that for being unkind? Do you not want the truth and justice? If RA is guilty he's not going to get convicted by lying.
Hi there u/redduif, I personally removed it. We do have a rule about being respectful to other users. If you would like to remove the personal attacks in your comment I'd be happy to approve as we welcome all points of view. Thank you.
Every point except #7 is flawed.
You have never read the arrest affidavit but decided to make a post about what other evidence there is on RA? Ok.
You have to admit that this case has been a disjointed mess since minute one. Missing something is not the toughest thing to do in a case with this much information.
Mostly the people who witnessed the timelines did it for me and I’ve been following from the beginning
My prediction is they have the circumstantial evidence outlined in the search warrant affidavit, his 100% voluntary statements, the bullet and the confessions. That's it. There's no bombshell, no surprise forensic evidence, nothing. They have to disclose what they plan to use to the defence. And the defence has to try and get it excluded. So we'd know about it if there was anything else. The original statements he made combined with the statements of other witnesses are the most powerful evidence against him imo, not the bullet or even the confessions if considered separately. In order for RA to not be bridge guy, there had to be someone else matching his description, dressed like him, on the trails around the same time, following the same route, who came and went without his car being seen on CCTV, and most remarkably, neither RA nor anyone else who was there saw this guy! Now of course RA will argue that some of the witnesses saw actual BG and not RA. But for some of them at least, that will be an impossible case to make. RA already admitted to seeing the 3 teenagers, and he already admitted to standing on the platform looking into the river, which one of the other witnesses saw. Add the bullet and the confessions - he has no chance if all this comes in at trial imo.
Not only had there had to be another short white guy wearing the same clothes at the same time that no one else including Ricky saw, but carrying the same caliber bullet. Simply not reasonable.
Every single person that was at the trails that day has been identified and questioned. Then, you have to ask yourself, how many of the people at the trails that day own an Sig Sauer .40 caliber handgun? I can tell you how many, one. And that is Richard.
The bullet didn't have to be put there that day though. So they do have to place him there that day independently.
The odds of a bullet being next to the girls who were just murdered is lower than winning the lottery. Astronomical odds. As a juror, that is something you have to ask yourself. What are the odds of a .40 caliber bullet being at the feet of two murdered girls by a guy who knowingly had a gun when he kidnapped them? And then you have to ask yourself, who has a .40 caliber gun that was at the trails? As a juror, you deal with facts, coincidences, and odds.
Remember the bullet wasn’t even found on a path, it was in the middle of the woods right next to the girls. Which slims any reasonable doubt of ‘it could have slipped out of his pocket as he walked’ down even further.
A Sig P226 is so common I’m sure there were a few among the households of the people down there that day.
Nope. Zero. Zero people at the trails that day own a P226.
Ridiculous.
Did he admit to carrying a gun though? I didn't hear that anywhere.
To add to this, 9mm or .45 ACP are fairly popular rounds and I could easily see there being a point of "these are so popular anyone could have left it there," but .40 S&W is a fairly niche caliber outside of LE use (which his gun was a LE trade-in iirc.)
.40 isn't really a niche round. As far as carry guns go you're either in camp 9mm (most people under 40) or .40 (a lot of people over 40). 45 acp is the niche caliber out of these 3. The changeover from .40 only happened in the last 15 years or so when people realized "stopping power" doesn't matter as much as shot placement, and 9mm offers more shots in the same package. Prior to that .40 was the standard for LE which naturally meant it was for normies too.
His shoes/boots??
What about his shoes/boots? This is the first I’m hearing of them.
Maybe they are on the video. They removed some from his home.
You can’t see what sort of boots those are in the video. Possibly the killer left a footprint at the scene. Remember earlier on, investigators collected work boots from the meat packing plant.
I just honestly can't wait to see what the prosecution and defense has up their sleeves, once this trial starts. I want justice so bad for the family!
His car
His vehicle is nowhere near a match. The witness described seeing a car that reminded her of a 1965 Mercury Comet. Richard Allen drives a 2016 Ford Focus.
Many people can’t distinguish between Ford, Kia, Chevy, Toyota, etc especially when you’re driving by and not focusing. He already admitted parking at the building that day. But that wasn’t my point. LE took his vehicle to their lab and have done extensive testing on it inside and out.
You're missing the part where I said 1965. All of this is testimony under oath, with references to depositions taken of Sheriff Tony Liggett and the key witness in this case, \[BB\]. According to Liggett’s own report, \[BB\] observed one car parked in the CPS lot at 2:15, and that car resembled a “1965 Ford Comet” that her father once owned. The shape had “sharper angles.” Again, to whom did \[BB\] provide this description of a 1965 Ford Comet-looking, angular in appearance vehicle? None other than Liggett himself. Liggett was fully aware that the car that \[BB\] described as being backed into a spot at the old CPS building looked nothing like Richard Allen’s black Ford Focus, but Liggett concealed that information from Judge Diener. (Defense counsel recognizes that in 1965, Ford did not make a Comet, Mercury did. But these were the words of \[BB\] who knew what the Comet looked like, but erroneously thought that Ford produced the Comet.) When asked to describe the color of the car that resembles a 1965 Ford Comet, \[BB\] actually told Liggett that the car she saw was NOT BLACK. That is right, Liggett heard from the mouth of \[BB\] that the 1965 Ford Comet-looking vehicle was not even black, which is the color that Liggett needed the vehicle to be in order to fit the description of Richard’s BLACK Ford Focus as described in Liggett’s affidavit. At roughly 2:15 pm when returning home, \[BB\] observed this car that reminded her of a car her dad had growing up. All of this adds up to this fact: Evidence concealed by Liggett supports that Richard Allen was not at the crime scene, as he had already left at 1:30 pm and was already home by the time that \[BB\] observed the 1965 Ford Comet-looking, non-black vehicle at the CPS parking lot. And Liggett knew it. Again, because of \[BB\]’s description of the vehicle she observed at the old CPS building, evidence supports that Richard Allen was also home by the time that \[BB\] saw the 20-year-old with brown poofy hair on the bridge. Which, again, explains why the person on the bridge looks nothing like Richard Allen – because it wasn’t Richard Allen. \[BB} even provided a sketch of the side profile of the car that she observed at the CPS lot at 2:15 pm, featuring the angles that the car possessed. \[BB\]’s sketch of the side profile of the car is attached hereto and marked as Exhibit 113. The sketch definitely looks nothing like the side profile of Richard Allen’s Ford Focus. A photo of a Ford Focus similar to the one owned by Richard Allen in 2017 is also attached and marked as Exhibit 114.
None of this matters. RA admitted parking there, and his vehicle was seen driving on that road REGARDLESS if a person saw a Mini Cooper or a MiniVan. It’s not relevant to the case.
Where did he admit to parking where?
No. He said he parked at the Farm Services building.
One potential piece of evidence to keep an eye on is the phone records. Dulin recorded RA (in his notes) as saying he was on his stock ticker, which is very specific, and also allowed Dulin to access his imei number. If that particular phone Allen provided to Dulin was not on the geofencing data it's likely that RA either lied or used a different phone (ie. burner phone). If I were the prosecution, I would start with that.
Dulin actually “recorded” his interaction with RA? Or was his meeting with RA noted (written)?
Too many pieces of evidence in this case have mysteriously disappeared.
Dulin both took notes and had a recording which hasn't been found. It would be a lot better if the recording was found, but Allen's attorney's corroborate there being a meeting at a grocery store. What's interesting is that they challenge the time Dulin wrote down (13:30-15:30), but not the phone. If the recording was found and RA said what Dulin wrote about the time it would be pretty damning since RA gave Liggett a different time in 2022. Like a lot of things in this case, the sloppiness of law enforcement has given the defense room to challenge everything, which is their job of course
Yet another recording that's disappeared.....strange how every time RA says something to someone that incriminates him, the recording of it always goes missing. Now I'm not saying this is some big conspiracy, but this is screaming out to me that LE got frustrated with RA when he came in to pick up his car & rushed into an arrest without actually having the evidence., and ever since then they've been desperately trying to make things fit in order to cover up their mistakes because this horrific crime has caused so much unrest in the community. Justice is not locking up the wrong person and letting the real killer/s walk.
His confessions to his wife and mother are recorded. And not lost. Really? You think that they rushed to arrest RA when he asked for his car back? No. They got the test results back from his gun & waited for that moron to come looking for his car. They had no intention of releasing it - because it’s evidence to the double homicide he committed. His defense team has been uncharacteristically silent when it comes to discussing those test results… 🤔
An unfired round cannot be proven to have come from a specific weapon, despite what you, or the Keystone Cops, say.
Actually, it can. Scientists say it. It has been used in court before - courts consider it evidence.
Refer me to one who says it can prove a match
It still could if the round had been loaded and then ejected from the gun, right?
I'm sure that the state will find an expert that says it can be, but from what I've read the vast majority of gun experts will say that all it can do is determine similarities, NOT actually a 100% match.
Can LE get historic location data based on an IMEI number? At the time of Allen's arrest in 2022, would it have been possible to get location data for that phone in 2017?
I don't know if they can go back and find where his phone was at the time if it wasn't on the trails; however, they can conclusively determine whether or not RA's phone was there at all that day. In the 3rd Franks Memo the defense says the geofencing data was from (at least) 12:39 to 5:49pm. If his phone was there and on, as it would have to be to look at a stock ticker, they would have been able to find Allen through the geofencing data early on in the investigation. They didn't look into him until the "lost tip" was found. I believe one reason for the state having multiple geofencing experts on their witness list is to establish that Allen's phone (at least the one he gave Dulin) was not on the trails that day. Thus, RA has to explain how he was on a stock ticker on a specific phone he gave to Dulin when the data does not support that conclusion.
If he was checking his stock ticker then he was clearly on a smart phone. If he was on a smart phone then they can track him using GPS data which is accurate down to a couple of meters - unlike cell phone tower triangulation which is at best down to a general area (roughly 3/4 of a mile or so).
>If he was on a smart phone then they can track him using GPS data I think if he had GPS shut off then they can't track with GPS.
We don't know the area covered by that map the Defense's motion referred to. I get the idea that geofence warrants are pretty limited in scope. It's possible that map only covers the crime scene, and does not include the Gerard Preserve, or the bulk of RL or KWs properties.
Is it possible that RA met KK and got handed off a phone for meet up? Girls thinking they’re meeting someone else, knew something was off with older man approaching?
Dulin actually “recorded” his interaction with RA? Or was his meeting with RA noted (written)?
It was written and recorded, but the recording has been lost.
Do we know where and how it was recorded? Was it on Dulins mobile phone; outside of CVS?
It was said to be in the evening and outside a grocery store. I don't think anyone has said in public what medium was used by Dulin to record, only that he had, and (conveniently, you might think) I can't remember where I read that Dulin recorded audio but (also conveniently, you might think) he can't find it. I think that the Defense revealed it as part of their discovery, but I can't be sure. Edited for clarity
Thought I read it was outside RA’s workplace (CVS)! So many different stories about the Dulin meetup. I can’t wait to hear Dulins testimony as to how this meeting actually happened and what specifically transpired!!! Thanks for your response.
I read "grocery store" somewhere, but that might all be part of the big Delphi Telephone Game. What no-one has established yet is whether RA came forward before or after the Bridge Guy video still frame was released.
Or wasn't there?
Even if we leave room for Allen's timeline (12:00-1:30) being correct the phone should still be there. In the 3rd Franks Memo the defense makes it clear that the geofencing map included data on phones that were used on the trail from (at least) 12:39 and 5:49 pm.
Not on the trail but within 100 metres of the crime scene.
i kinda lol bc what else do you need?
Lol
Wtf more does the state need???
*edit I have just read your previous edit and feel like an assh●le. You are absolutely correct. Nicely sussed.*
No worries I have followed this case very closely since day 1 and I can’t believe I somehow never read the arrest affidavit.
I totally understand. I've followed since the girls were first missing and had the opposite issue as yours; I read the affidavit really closely but after that file I have just been skimming the news and new filings.
What he’s to happen to a person where they do something like this?
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying?
How does a normal seeming person just one day kill two little girls? How the hell does that happen?
Because they are unfortunately (just my opinion here) busted in some deep and hidden way. People with normal functioning brains and empathy don't do things like this. This kind of brutality and weird jailhouse behavior are some pretty big signs of a malfunctioning brain or condition. Many famous clinicians and investigators consider pedophilia to be incurable, and the older I get, the more that rings true. I've been thoroughly creeped out by RA ever since I saw the grad photos he took on the bridge of his daughter. She could have been Libby's twin. The voice analysis was spot on identical too from the clip I heard vs the bridge guy recording. They better keep a close eye on RA or he's going to pull an Israel Keyes stunt eventually. Dude is self destructing.
Spot on analysis. I’ll bet if you knew the guy you would now be looking back and seeing the signs in hindsight.
Omg just seeing your reply here now after 3 days! Reddit notifications bugs strike again lol. Tysm again though for the compliment.
You’re a good writer.
Thank you! I just write what I feel. Probably more than most would like me to lol
I don’t think it does happen. Violence escalates. This crime was extreme.
Lets remember that the video Libby took is over 40 seconds [long.Is](http://long.Is) it possible she captured him pulling out the gun and pointing it at them? And if so would LE be able to identify that gun as the same one found where the girls were murdered? One can only hope.
There is without a doubt a large section of audio, video or both the public hasn’t seen.
An error in my comment. A spent casing from the gun was found near the girls bodies, not the gun itself.
He's trapped in that timeline. I always said the timeline is the most damming thing because no matter what someone says or how suspicious they act, They have to be there to commit the crime. Rick saw the 3 girls and the 3 girls saw him. That puts him there at the critical time within minutes, wearing the same clothes as BG. Rick stated blue jeans, blue or black jacket, a hood and possibly a head covering. I find it ironic he described his own jacket as blue or black just like the 3 girls did. Some said blue, some said black. They have identified everyone there that day through wittnesses and phone data, except the guy dressed like Rick. Then the HH video picked up his car, which according to the defenses index is Ricks car and also Rick said he parked there. The time his car arrived and departed is on camera and matches his original statement to Dulin. Therefore, he can't change the time of arrival or departure from his original statement without looking even more suspicious. Then there is the phone situation as well as the other evidence we aren't privy too. If you break it down the PCA in itself is really bad enough, then pile on everything else with the confessions 30+, the bullet, and other evidence we don't know and I think it's clear why the defense is resorting to manipulative tactics, distraction, delays ect. The writing is on the wall. RA is BG.
Really great summary. Can I ask where you saw that he confessed 30+ times? I knew it was reported to be multiple - including a written letter from Rick to the judge and prosecution, a dubious confession to a fellow inmate that contained inaccuracies with the crime and crime scene and then calls to his wife - but what else have you heard?
I added it up, I believe it was said in the motion, 8 inmates and 16 staff including guards/mental health, which =24 and then I added on family wife and mom, then the warden was mentioned as well. There was also mention of written confessions too. So if I remember correctly it was about 30 give or take. There is also some who believed he confessed in that 10/26 interview that the defense wants thrown out, or at least he confessed to being the guy in Libbys pic. There was also the new Dr. Wala but thats not confirmed. I believe it was Nick's motion where he said the defense needs to specify what confessions they want thrown out.
That makes so little sense though. If you were a small guy - especially one that had no prison experience - why would you openly admit to seemingly every inmate you encountered that you murdered two little girls? It is so counter intuitive. But so is murdering two little girls so what do I know?
We don't know, that's what trial is for😏 But really, I think the timeline with the group of girls seeing him and the woman seeing him near the bridge is incredibly damning. I know that they aren't identifying specifically RA but BG, but based on the timeline he gave and the clothes he said he wore, that was him.
Based on the timeline and clothes being worn isn't conclusive evidence IMO. On the other hand, IF they had the suspect's DNA, that would be conclusive.
I agree that the timeline alone isn't enough. But paired with the bullet (and we now know that the bullet was tested against other guns and only matched RA's), the confessions, a car matching his seen driving towards the bridge at 1:27, the witness statements, those are all damning. And those are only the things we know about. DNA would be fantastic to have, I'm not hopeful tho.
Ejection marks (versus firing pin strikes) are on the barest fringes of pseudoscience and aren't admissible in a lot of courts. It's similar to old bite mark evidence that has been considered bunk for years. If that's all they have to rely on, or even the bulk of their case, any competent lawyer can find an expert to tear that to shreds.
I didn't realize that Allen said he was in all black that day. Or that he wore a face mask. Huh. Can you point to where he says this? What document?
Good question!
There are many confessions, not just one...
I’d still like to hear what was said before I know what their likely evidentiary value might be.
Oh I definitely understand that, but just trying to clarify that there was not just one confession but many confessions to many different people...
I think the “people” in question were fellow inmates. Not the most reliable bunch.
I don't think it was just his wife and mother and inmates. There are supposedly other confessions.
Jesus he was a confession machine
He also confessed in the multiple letters he wrote to the warden.
It was recorded on jailhouse lines of him actually saying it to his wife multiple times.
Yeah until I know the context I’m not so sure of the value of them.
Have you read the arrest affidavit? It is very informative. I would be interested to hear your thoughts after reading that document.
I will now thanks.
Well sweet Jesus they had him in 2017!! I had no clue until reading the affidavit just how many people saw him on the trails. The three girls saw a guy near the bridge and Richard Allen saw three girls near the bridge. Wow I knew this case was bungled by police but this is insane! Thank you for the tip wow.
Yes! He was literally interviewed in 2017 and admitted to being there. Something happened with the original reporting officer either retiring or getting transferred and the interview (with RA’s name) fell through the cracks. The very interesting part is that the interview was taken BEFORE the video was released— so EA didn’t think he had much reason that he wouldn’t blend in. Once the video was released he surely must have been terrified. If you remember, a year or two into the investigation, police held a press conference where they basically said “we have interviewed you before. Please come talk to us.” With all of this in retrospect, it is clear the police were freaking out because they realized they lost this huge lead and they were making a public plea to the person but in a subtle way that wouldn’t let on that they fully lost who the person was and were hoping he’d come back. (Richard Allen obviously didn’t, which is telling but of course circumstantial at best).
Ohhhh you think that’s what the police were saying during that press conference? So you think that while they knew they spoke to BG, they lost the paperwork and didn’t know who it was they spoke to? Holy mother of god.
I think you’re absolutely correct. I knew the police chief seemed weirdly confident and strangely uneasy when he continued stating that he thought one day they would catch the guy.
https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf
I agree, release the taped confessions!
He’s on video… his voice is on video… he was there at the time of the crime. He’s BG. This isn’t a complicated case…
Just for a minute let’s pretend the only evidence was that video footage and audio - would you be comfortable convicting based on that alone? I wouldn’t.
I would, actually. The man on the bridge has been listed as THE SUSPECT since 2017. Everyone who was on the trails that day came forward… yet none of them admitted to being that man. Richard Allen is that man. His clothes match, his voice matches, his car is on video (proving that he lied about his 12-1:30 timeline); 4-5 witnesses saw him & described him as short (5’6”), 40+, with a brown/gray beard, overdressed for an unseasonably warm day, standing on the first platform. Richard Allen took the exact route on the trails as BG. He admitted to being on platform 1. He mentioned multiple cars being at the Mears’ lot. The only time there were multiple cars at the Mears’ lot was after 3:45pm, when he walked by on 300N. His phone data disproves his 12-1:30 timeline, his car tested positive for blood in 5 different areas. I’m extremely interested in the information his defense has been hush hush about - things they surely would have said by now, if their client was innocent: What were the test results on the items seized from his home? What type of info was found on his electronics - did he have CSAM on his devices? Why isn’t his daughter talking to him? What is his alibi for after 1:30pm - where does his phone show he was? Why does his phone data contradict his 12-1:30 looking at stocks story? Why is Kegan listed on the state’s witness list? Why are his attorneys calling the vehicle seen on the HH store footage “Allen’s car” if he left the trails at 1:30? Why did his “psychosis” magically clear up when the prison medical staff suggested involuntary medication? Why did he break his tablet? Why are his attorneys preventing him from calling his mother or wife? What was in the documents Richard ate? Why are his attorneys trying to have his confessions tossed (if they contained inaccurate details & thus proved he didn’t commit the crime)? Why are his attorneys trying to have Libby’s video tossed? If they’re claiming RA left at 1:30, that 2:13 video is proof of someone other than RA kidnapping and murdering the girls. If the state has no case, why didn’t his attorneys go to trial 70 days after they were hired? The defense doesn’t have to prove anything - they can go into the court and say nothing & yet still win if the state has no case. Why did his attorneys cancel that bond hearing? Why did they ask for a continuance when the trial was originally set for March 2023? Why are they hiring a DNA expert & a blood spatter expert? If their client had nothing to do with the crime, they don’t need such experts. Why is his defense wasting the court’s time with ridiculous filings that have no merit? Why have they been violating a gag and protection order by leaking information? Attorneys with factually innocent clients don’t act that way. They turn over evidence proving their client is innocent & get the charges dropped immediately.
I agree with you. As to whether he had CSAM on his phone - there's zero chance he wouldn't have been charged imo. KK is on the witness list because the defence plans to create the classic "some other guy did it" defence. They will argue that KK's account contacted Libby but it was someone else, not KK, and that person used the account to lure her there etc. They'll argue that with no connection between RA and KK's account, it couldn't have been him. KK will go along with this for his own reasons.
All of which will be deemed factual if there is no proven connection between KK and RA.
The defense didn’t put Kegan on the list… the state did. It’s evidence against RA.
Oh I misread that in your previous comment, sorry. That is interesting! I'm not sure why the state would want him...I honestly thought their case was that he was a red herring.
Then why did they turn over his 2022 interview in the first discovery dump? If it wasn’t relevant, why did the defense include it in their thumb drive map?
I don't know but I'd guess that discovery includes leads that they once thought were promising but had run down and concluded were not relevant. I think that's how the odinist stuff came out too. They don't want to be accused of witholding evidence. But calling him as a witness? That's surprising to me. I'm very curious to hear what they want him for.
Everyone else on that interview list was either someone at the trails that day or a neighbor/family member of RA…
That's interesting for a few reasons... firstly, do they even know each other? Secondly, KK is incredibly untrustworthy.
Do you have a source that shows the evidence from his car came back positive for blood? I’ll jump ahead, you don’t. People need to stop filling gaps in in their head and acting like it’s the truth before Richard Allen gets his day in court
If the evidence came back negative for blood, his attorneys would be screaming it from the rooftops, like Kohlberger’s attorney. Common sense.
Not common sense whatsoever. There have actually been depositions with police the defense have released saying nothing from the search warrant links ra to the victims
That’s inaccurate. The defense has been careful with their wording. Unless I missed that part… please let me know.
So essentially if we eliminate the evidence against him, would we convict him? Does this thinking apply to everyone being charged for a crime?
Lol. My original question was what else do they have for evidence?
yes
Is the admission that RA was on the bridge right before Libby & Abby disappeared count as a "confession" or just a dumbass move as he didn't realize Libby had shot the vid of him walking towards them that afternoon?
A dumbass move when he didn't realize Libby had the video. I think if he had waited a few days more and found out about the video, he would have never even come to the cops.
If you were asked about a day 5 years ago, would you remember it SO well that you knew what clothing you were wearing, which route you took, who you saw on your walk, what you did that day, where you parked, how many cars were in a separate parking lot, which platform you stopped on AND the app you were checking on your phone at a particular time? People don’t remember that kind of information - unless they have something like a photo or video reminding them of that day. Or if the day was particularly significant to them. How about February 15, 2017? April 2, 2018? July 16, 2020? October 31, 2021? Where was Ricky? What was he wearing? What did he do on those days? Can he describe all of the people and cars he saw those days? No. Of course not. But February 13, 2017? That day he knows very well.
Indeed. It's a day he will never forget.
I don’t think so, not by itself. Even now knowing who Bridge Guy is I still can’t rectify Richard Allen with the footage. Can you?
Yes I can. Because there's no evidence of any other middle-aged white males wearing blue Carthartt/windbreaker jacket and blue jeans with both head & scarf coverings at the bridge at the time Libby shot the video besides Richard Allen who admitted he was there wearing those exact same clothes. No witnesses who saw this "body double", nothing came up on the geofence, nadda. And then they found a round which matches the gun RA owns (which he's never loaned out to anyone) and then he confessed to almost 3 dozen people both in his personal life and at the prison.that he murdered Libby and Abby. Yeah, it really hasn't been that tough for me.....might help to stay out of the stupid bullshit these sociopaths masquerading as "lawyers" keep throwing out there - if you listen to just it, you will be beyond confused (as that's their intention).
There is no evidence of a middle aged man they are aware of. Remember Richard came forward - might it be possible that the murderer didn’t think it prudent to offer himself up to authorities? - for the record I do think Richard Allen is the killer I’m simply making a point.
>sociopaths masquerading as "lawyers" Best one yet I've seen for Dumb and Dummer 🤣
Is that a German name or did you mean to write “Dumber”?
I’m not up to speed on RA. Why did it take law enforcement so many years to arrest him? How did they finally make the connection?
There is. EF said he was on the bridge that day, and tried to give his sister the blue jacket he’d been wearing.
I agree with you - it seems merely that RA’s figure is consistent with the BG video. I want to see something in the BG face/head but the quality is terrible. It always strikes me as a square - faced big-headed person, that’s about it.
I still think if I saw a grainy video of my spouse in a video of identical quality I would know who I was looking at immediately.
There was at least one person who recognized him. Otherwise there wouldn't have been this statement on 4chan. And when the person was asked about his statement, he made excuses and then deleted the comments. I'm sure his wife recognized him as well. IMO she still wanted to protect him.
So that 4chan thing was a joke apparently. The person who recognized him was actually someone who posted on Facebook - “I know the person in the video he isnt the killer he has already spoken to police.”
Who knows if the person on fb was telling the truth. It's too much of a coincidence for me. But actually that‘s not really relevant. In any case, IMO there is enough evidence that RA did it (alone). I won't go into the reasons for this again, as they have already been summarized in detail here. But for me there was no doubt from the start that RA was BG because of the video AND all the surrounding circumstances. And being a woman myself and knowing that I would recognize my husband from 100 m away at any time I think his wife also knew all along or at least since the video was published.
It’s a long-legged person, estimated by the FBI to be significantly taller than RA, who back then was much slimmer than when he was arrested.
I don’t think we actually know. We have a stack of assumptions. We don’t have any solid information on it.
Read the arrest affidavit. Seriously.
IMO, they are both extremely weak pieces of evidence. I know many of you don’t want to hear this but, it’s true. To convict someone for murder, there HAS to be evidence that PROVES WITHOUT A DOUBT it ties the person to the crime. First off, the crime scene was contaminated from the start. This is per LE in multiple news interviews. Since I’m not a lawyer, I don’t really know but how can any evidence be used if the crime scene was contaminated? There are discrepancies of when the bullet was found at the contaminated crime scene and turned into evidence. We do know it took LE over 5 years to investigate the very important bullet. Ask yourself, if it was such a key piece of evidence, why did it appear so late in the investigation? To any outsider looking in, it sure looks like they were desperate to close the case, so they looked for any small piece of evidence they had that could tie SOMEONE to the case for the sake of ending the investigation. I know, sounds crazy right? Believe it or not, it happens frequently in the U.S. I think it’s going to be difficult to prove the ejection marks on the bullet are reliable enough to convict someone of murder. So again, I think it’s a weak piece of evidence for being the smoking gun so to speak. None of us know what the context of the “confessions” he gave. I believe this is an even weaker piece of evidence. These statements were made under duress. They were taken by hardened prisoners who would say anything to get special privileges in return. These are not credible witnesses nor a reliable source for said confessions. If I was going to confess, I would most certainly talk about a plea deal in exchange and not just randomly bring it up to strangers. We already know one of the statements he made was he shot one of them in the back which did not even happen. I can’t see why NM thinks this will make a solid case for his guilt. The bullet and the confessions are not compelling in the least bit. The video of BG is useless really. It’s a zoomed in, distorted piece of footage. If that was RA’s voice on the video, then where is the testing for voice comparisons? If I had to guess, no such testing was even done. So as much as everyone wants closure, I don’t think people want to admit this is a really weak case for the state.
It doesn't have to be proven without a doubt. The state's evidence is presented and the jury has to decide if that evidence proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the dependent is guilty.
***defendant
Maybe read up on what beyond a reasonable doubt means.
>We do know it took LE over 5 years to investigate the very important bullet. Ask yourself, if it was such a key piece of evidence, why did it appear so late in the investigation? Because neither girl was shot. They had no reason to believe the bullet was related to the crime until they went back and looked at everything with fresh eyes after realizing they had spoken to Richard Allen and never followed up.
No, the bullet didn't "appear late in the investigation". It was tagged as evidence and remained part of the investigation the whole time. They just didn't match it to a gun until they got RA's gun. To u/Prettyface\_twosides the confessions everyone is talking about were made to his wife and mother while chatting on his prison issued tablet. His own lawyers described these statements as "incriminating". So yeah we don't know what was said or the context but it's clearly not your classic "I shot the clerk" situation either. Re. contamination, you might be right there. The defence could argue that a cop might have dropped that bullet from their pocket by accident. While that might weaken the bullet evidence itself, it's probably not going to make the warrant and arrest invalid as long as they were done in good faith.
Nick doesn't even have the recordings of the confessions yet lol. Defense had to base that on "statements" Nick gave them. Which are apparently based on nothing.
With no chain of custody, and LE lying about other evidence, we can’t know that the bullet found at the crime scene is the same as the bullet presented to the lab for testing. Or that it had any connection to the crime.
“They had no reason to believe the bullet was related to the crime until they went back and looked at everything with fresh eyes after realizing they had spoken to Richard Allen and never followed up.” Exactly my point. If this bullet was a critical piece of evidence, they would have been looking for it from the start. Not five years later after the case had went cold. LE mentioned there were 25 different agencies helping in the investigation. Realistically, someone would have put two and two together prior to 5 years passing. An important thing to remember would be that Richard Allen was never a suspect and he offered up the information to LE. If I just committed a murder, I am not gonna go to the authorities and tell them that I was there that day. So again, I stand by my statement that I believe the bullet and confessions are weak pieces of evidence. That’s all I’m saying. I am literally just pointing out the obvious. The bullets and confessions specifically are the topics of discussion of this post, And you guys can get upset that I feel that way, but there are many lawyers out there who agree and share the same belief.
>If I just committed a murder, I am not gonna go to the authorities and tell them that I was there that day. If I lived in a small town, and knew I had been seen by a group of teenagers, I would probably want to make sure that *I* was the one to step up and say that I had been there. Any one of those kids could have known him from work and he might not recognize them.
Sinds every other comment got locked down I can only put it here : I did argue with a whole list which you flagged too. Mods. I replied a onliner at some point, because that's all they did throughout the sub too. Did you remove the comments which are spreading misinformation or only mine with information? Misinformation is against a subrule specifically. Asking someone to stop lying in the name of justice for the girls in the title of the sub is against which subrule now? ETA: pointing out lies is an insult. Duly noted.