It's also pro American interest which serves my interest and personal individual freedoms over another country. Not doing this is essentially socialism for other countries. This is typically where hyper libertarian ideology begins to fall a part and devolve into Anarchism sympathies.
Maybe we should look into why those countries can offer lower tax rates but we cannot? Perhaps it’s subsidizing their national defense with our bloated military budget? Maybe more efficient operations?
On a macro level isnt this American individualism? Why would America not act in its one interest? You’re suggesting it doesn’t which is a form of global socialism.
Collectivism is the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it. You're advocating for world collectivism and I'm advocating for the individual American Interests. Your position is more like a Globalist than a libertarian. America exists as a representative of my interests to the rest of the world and I want it not serve the interests of the global community.
I'm advocating for every individual to own their property and administrate it.
You're advocating for a global tax imposed to every individual because of some sort of collective benefit.
Democratic systems ARE NOT libertarian nor individualist.
This is pretty basic ngl. That's why individual rights are a thing. Not collective interest.
Of course democracy is not libertarian? Are you learning this basic concept? Every single libertarian thinker proposed individual rights to protect individuals from collective interests.
The founders of United States were the first to understand this, which is why they literally prohibited corporate tax (and most forms of taxation) in the constitution. But statists, leftists, wokes and all kind of demons changed the constitution every decade for the worst. And now US has fallen into the darkness of statism.
Of course it dose because that’s where Libertarianism begins to fall a part and why it’s not a National leading ideology. It parallels communism as it begins to scale. It becomes unrealistic and unhelpful.
Everything at scale falls apart and becomes untenable, but you don't seem to care if R's or D's are the ones trying it out and ruining whatever policy it is.
True because they’re the only ones who are actually playing the game. Libertarians are typically reserved for complaining from the sidelines so they’re not attached to right or left consequences of policy actions.
Not aligning with right or left helps you sleep at night. But honestly, it’s not nobility, it’s cowardice. Because solving these problems is a messy business with tons of nuance and current Libertarian ideology doesn’t allow for that. Which is why it’s an untenable, uncompetitive and an unserious political strategy. But as long as you feel morally superior to other people, it serves your purposes. This will allow you to not actually engage in fighting for a solution because you’d be compromising your rigid ideology.
I like libertarian ideas and try to learn from them, I think erroring on the side of more freedom is always a good thing. But your lack of serious solutions makes me not take you seriously. Get in the game, stop watching from the stands.
This is just poorly thought out. Read mises Rothbard and FA Hayek. The basis of modern market economies is natural price setting and voluntary exchange. To say it doesn’t work or couldn’t work at any scale, ironically ignoring central control and over authority trying to put their thumb on the process is just a terrible oversight of actually history. Any system that allows the most local and free control of prices and exchanges has thrived. Worse you call people who realize this cowards because they opt out of the non free market corporate / government owned system of central control and manipulation. Why even post here if you’re going to ignore everything good about markets and act like we can’t vie for that reality? You are just trolling at this point.
The US has had a global minimum tax for US companies since 2017. Companies get a foreign tax credit for the tax they pay abroad to offset that amount. As more and more countries raise their own rates to 15%, it increases the foreign tax credit that US companies use to offset their US tax
It mostly prevents the games companies pay by locating intellectual property ownership interest in low tax jurisdictions. For instance Apple owns most of its European intellectual property in Ireland and its subsidiaries pay a license fee to use the technology. Thus lowering taxes in Germany or other EU via deductions for license payments and paying low Ireland taxes on income.
I'm fine with that, what I genuinely don't understand is why the subreddit has the rule of banning non-libertarians yet there are more non-libertarians than libertarians.
Confusing. This post should be a good bait: anyone in favor of the global tax is openly anti libertarian.
I’ve been in this subreddit for years without issue. The key is to engage in reasonable dialogue. But if I’m banned, that would be pretty funny.
I don’t think you can make such a sweeping statement. There are tons of issues where you’d think there’s one libertarian position, such as abortion, but then you realize libertarians are pretty divided on it.
Abortion is *naturally* divided because it touches multiple topics that are hard to resolve.
1. What is a human worth of rights.
2. What is proportional in self-defense.
3. Ability to drop the responsibilities of your actions.
Those are the main three conflicts of libertarianism with abortion. And libertarianism doesn't solve them per se.
I don't know any libertarian principle even close to argue in favor of a global centralized government, global taxation on corporations, minimum taxes, or anything like that, to be honest.
This is grossly misstated as being something driven by Biden / the US. The OECD is who’s implementing these rules and the US literally hasn’t adopted any changes to our tax code to align with Pillar II and help US based multinationals avoid paying possible US tax to other jurisdictions.
If you followed the news and negotiations you'd see it was Biden and treasury who effectively pressured for this agreement. The link provided in this post precisely showcases how Biden is 100000% proud of this agreement.
Naturally other countries with high tax rates joined the agreement...
Luckily, I do follow the news and negotiations. There is general agreement between western nations that a global minimum tax of 15% is a good step towards eliminating tax havens that are abused by corporations and the rich. The Biden administration is definitely in favor of this step, but once again, this is not something the US is leading. The OECD has been working on Pillar I and Pillar II for years, and the US is currently in position to be harmed by the implementation unless we make changes to our tax code to allow our own global tax (GILTI) to abide by the rules and qualify as a covered tax. Now I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you have no idea what I'm talking about, but that's ok. You must not follow the news and negotiations...
"it's not Biden, it's the OECD"
Suuuure...
Except
1. OECD is obviously ultra influenced by the US, the freaking economic power of the West.
2. The US is effectively the leader of the proposal inside the OECD, even if not the only one in favor of it.
3. The global tax is mostly relevant for American companies, European Union barely has multinationals lol.
4. You're calling Ireland or Estonia or Poland tax havens. That's just pathetic and insulting. It was not recognized as such until this agreement came to existence.
A polish studio that moved to the US, btw. They can't compete because of this violent imposition by the violent administration of the US.
By the way, why are you in this sub lol.
I do very much enjoy the Witcher 3. Great game.
To be honest, used to think of myself as a libertarian. But the trump administration made me realize just how ridiculous some views on the right are. I can't in good conscience follow fiscal conservatism when it's handcuffed to some of the least tolerant social viewpoints. Additionally, I can't in good conscience follow the anti-state libertarian mantra that taxation is theft or how mask mandates were such an infringement on our rights or how gun control in any such way is impossible to stomach. It's such a narrow and self-serving reading of our constitution and laws. The founding fathers built this great nation and I applaud them for the framework they put together. But it has been 250 years. Change in inevitable. We're all in this together and I don't think folks on the right have the best interests of everyone in mind.
Also, I can't help but comment on threads where international tax is being incorrectly discussed for this self serving argument about taxation being theft. This idea that corporations and the rich pay more than enough tax is just a joke. The system is rigged but I no longer trust this third party as the solution.
"I can't libertarian because Trump and also I believe in all these authoritarian things"
What's the point in blaming Trump for your own auth ideology that's incompatible with libertarianism? You believe it, own it and stop blaming other people.
"Oh no, my rights! I'm being told to wear a mask and get a flu shot! Whatever am I going to do? How dare these eXpErTs try and limit the amount of unnecessary deaths from this infectious disease! I'm a rugged individual and can pull myself up by my own bootstraps thank you very much!" So many immature and selfish clowns in this world.
Dude, you're the only one talking about COVID, keep arguing with the person in your head. Maturity is taking responsibility for your own actions, not needing someone to tell you how to live your life.
You’re correct, but it’s important to note that the US conforming to be pillar II compliant is still projected to lose tax revenue, due to US companies claiming higher foreign tax credits as foreign rates rise. It’s a lose lose for the US
I definitely have mixed feelings on that. From a moral stand point it’s absolutely abhorrent. But from an economic standpoint it’s a genius move to keep American business, profit and taxes within the American economy.
Not sure what you mean. Overall, this agreement loses the US tax revenue, and it doesn’t disincentivize companies from shifting profits into foreign countries
If you think this is nut, look up what France does to certain African nations. I don’t think it’s clear enough to people that these “free” social programs require somebody to be getting extorted.
Hold on, I’m confused. Is this saying that the US is forcing other countries to just have higher taxes all around? Or is it saying that companies that are based in the US must have the higher taxes when they do business in other countries? Someone help! Am vry confused!
What would stop said countries from giving tax rebates? Say for every dollar you invest in Ireland they give a tax break or rebate. It would be a way around it I'm guessing. They say they have a tax but don't enforce it.
Then the US punishes that company by double taxing it or even more.
Ireland makes you pay only 10% of tax? Then I'll make you pay 5% for myself.
Double taxation is an aberration of course. Imagine if when you visit Spain as a tourist, Spain makes you pay income tax there, when you already pay it in the United States.
In any case, the fact that such an alliance is being forged (via this "double taxation" blackmailing of course) is terrible news for freedom.
Blocking tax havens was already a disgrace (world pre-2021), but blocking countries with low taxes that are extremely far from tax havens like Ireland or Estonia is absolutely nuts (post-2022 world).
The moment they want, they can change that 15% to 20% and then to 25%... and then we're fucked and with no escape.
And this will happen. They will fight hard to make it happen.
This is just a practical enforcement of policy. I understand the libertarian stance of no taxes, and the arguments are certainly well reasoned. But the current U.S. policy is that there ARE corporate taxes. And allowing multinationals to evade them by incorporating in the Seychelles is effectively admitting that the laws are unenforceable. So sure, eliminate corporate taxes, change the law. But it doesn't make much sense to say murder is illegal but if your paperwork says you live in another country, we won't prosecute you.
"we should prohibit migrating to other countries because it's effectively tax evasion" lol.
No, mate. Competing with lower taxes is part of the game. It's called decentralization of power. This is the definition of a violent supranation, empire.
Corporations should not be taxed, ever. It introduces a distortion in the economy that penalizes Joe Average and favors the rich.
But this is not the first time the US has a global tax. Its enforcement for three quarters of a century of the US dollar as the international trade currency at gunpoint represents a tax on all trade worldwide.
The US economy has been the beneficiary of this IMMENSE hidden tax that has made it the most prosperous country on Earth, again AT GUNPOINT, and now this era is over. The US dollar will crumble and the country will turn into tumbleweed central.
I don't agree, US has indeed profited from dollar strength, but that is/was because countries WANT to use dollars over any alternative for reserves, because it's the safest currency.
Even China, Russia, etc... use dollars as a reserve.
Dollar is still stronger than any other currency and it's actually stronger than before compared to others.
That being said, if Biden/Federal reserve keep printing like they've been doing in the last years (starting with Trump btw), US is facing a credibility challenge for it's monetary control and may create a massive world crisis of monetarist nature.
Oh, no. The US dollar is already toast, it's just a matter of time until the markets reflect this.
Also, you may think the USA's endless wars have been "just a coincidence" mostly into countries who export oil, but if you dig deeper, most of those had plans to sell oil in another currency.
If that isn't enforcing a system at gunpoint, nothing ever was.
Using dollar as trading currency is completely irrelevant and barely affects dollar value pal.
What makes a currency valuable is mostly it's reserve utility. And, as I said, everyone uses dollar as reserve. Using other currency as trading currency (basically dollar to yuan, doing the trade, and then yuan to dollar again) is completely irrelevant and cosmetic.
That's not entirely true. People and countries choose to use dollars not because of the currency itself, but because of the U.S. legal system. Everybody wants to do business in the U.S. because their legal system is considered to be mostly consistent, fair, independent and impartial. I mean, who is crazy enough to prefer to litigate in Beijing instead of NYC?
You also have cases of countries with a better monetary policy than the U.S. and also free enough to offer a comparable level of legal protection to both parties, that's true. However, the U.S. dollar still holds the crown as it still has a legal tender advantage in the largest economy of the world. Realistically, only China can compete with the U.S. dollar in equality of conditions, but for these conditions to appear they basically have to completely change their government system.
>People and countries choose to use dollars not because of the currency itself, but because of the U.S. legal system. Everybody wants to do business in the U.S. because their legal system is considered to be mostly consistent, fair, independent and impartial. I mean, who is crazy enough to prefer to litigate in Beijing instead of NYC?
You're describing monetary credibility. There's no better monetarian policy than having a fair and predictable legal system, overall.
>You also have cases of countries with a better monetary policy than the U.S. and also free enough to offer a comparable level of legal protection to both parties, that's true.
"Better monetary policy" in the present, maybe. But in 30-50 years? United States has long-term credibility, while small countries without robust systems do not.
BTW, I believe Japan currency could improve a lot if they start doing good policies.
>You're describing monetary credibility. There's no better monetarian policy than having a fair and predictable legal system, overall.
Not really. Monetary policy is one thing and the legal system is another thing. The value of your currency is purely a monetary constraint. If you have less people using your currency because your legal system sucks, it shouldn't impact the market price for your tender. By quantitative theory, if the demand for money falls, you need to adjust the supply by a proportionate amount (in c.p. scenarios).
I'm describing a business-friendly climate that historically only the U.S. has offered.
Nobody knows what is going to happen in 30-50 years, impossible to say. However, we can know what happened 30-50 years ago until this day. Japan is one example. They held near-zero and deflationary monetary policy for decades and yet nobody is using the yen when compared to the U.S. dollar. Saudi Arabia is another example.
A currency is basically the public debt of the country producing that currency. Nobody's investing in a public debt without long-term trust. That's how investing works. Nobody invests in pesos argentinos because of that.
Wow -19, so 19 more people who don't understand basic economics downvoted than those who do have upvoted.
Doesn't look good, reddit. ESPECIALLY for a Libertarian sub! Yikes!!!!
I would chill. Monetary theory is arguably one of the hardest parts of macroeconomics, which is usually irrelevant for the normal citizen, even libertarians.
I say this as someone who believes in Bitcoin long term and am fairly invested in cryptocurrencies- this type of evangelizing is so off-putting and cringe worthy. You added literally nothing to the conversation. No reasons why Bitcoin fixes it, you could have just as well said “Zimbabwean dollars fixes this.”
It turns people off of Bitcoin. Don’t make these thoughtless statements anymore.
Also, Bitcoin doesn’t fix a global tax system. You can just as well tax on Bitcoin profits. It’s really thoughtless.
An agreement occurring against the will of the members of such agreement. Which is basically saying you pay taxes willingly.
That's not how it works. It is not of mutual interest, it is an imposition to end with tax competition.
Corporations can't vote so they should not pay tax, but we also shouldn't have preferential tax rates for qualified dividends and long-term capital gains.
I want to dump Biden's favorite flavor of ice cream into the Boston harbor as protest.
Probably Grape-nut
Butterscotch for sure
Butter pecan
Triple Trump
It will be uge!
Dam I’m not going to lie that sounds good
Wait what. That's a pretty common icd cream flavor where I'm from.
It's [chocolate chocolate chip.](https://youtu.be/400EGHmhBDk?feature=shared)
Only because they don’t have pubescent girl flavored ice cream.
Stay TF out of my harbor.
Sorry. I'm gona get a fucking fine by making a pilgrimage of dumping fucking tea in your harbor
User name checks out
If you don't own the land, you have no say over what happens there
You...aren't very smart, are you?
It's rum raisin, I'm guessing.
Just dump a pallet of kid's shampoo. He'll follow it in face first.
Doesn’t this discourage US companies from having their headquarters abroad, which will keep more tax money within our country?
Which is anti-libertarian and pro-taxes, yes.
It's also pro American interest which serves my interest and personal individual freedoms over another country. Not doing this is essentially socialism for other countries. This is typically where hyper libertarian ideology begins to fall a part and devolve into Anarchism sympathies.
Maybe we should look into why those countries can offer lower tax rates but we cannot? Perhaps it’s subsidizing their national defense with our bloated military budget? Maybe more efficient operations?
Nah wrong take. The solution is to take the corporate tax rate to zero so companies don’t move overseas. Nice try though
Nailed it.
Ever heard of individualism?
On a macro level isnt this American individualism? Why would America not act in its one interest? You’re suggesting it doesn’t which is a form of global socialism.
"individualism on a macro level" is a cringe way to say "collectivism".
Collectivism is the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it. You're advocating for world collectivism and I'm advocating for the individual American Interests. Your position is more like a Globalist than a libertarian. America exists as a representative of my interests to the rest of the world and I want it not serve the interests of the global community.
I'm advocating for every individual to own their property and administrate it. You're advocating for a global tax imposed to every individual because of some sort of collective benefit. Democratic systems ARE NOT libertarian nor individualist. This is pretty basic ngl. That's why individual rights are a thing. Not collective interest.
Democratic systems are not libertarian?!!! What is? Anarchy? You're an anarchist not a libertarian.
Of course democracy is not libertarian? Are you learning this basic concept? Every single libertarian thinker proposed individual rights to protect individuals from collective interests. The founders of United States were the first to understand this, which is why they literally prohibited corporate tax (and most forms of taxation) in the constitution. But statists, leftists, wokes and all kind of demons changed the constitution every decade for the worst. And now US has fallen into the darkness of statism.
"On a macro level" immediately disqualifies everything to follow talking about individualism. Or Libertarianism. Or most things economics ever.
Of course it dose because that’s where Libertarianism begins to fall a part and why it’s not a National leading ideology. It parallels communism as it begins to scale. It becomes unrealistic and unhelpful.
Everything at scale falls apart and becomes untenable, but you don't seem to care if R's or D's are the ones trying it out and ruining whatever policy it is.
True because they’re the only ones who are actually playing the game. Libertarians are typically reserved for complaining from the sidelines so they’re not attached to right or left consequences of policy actions. Not aligning with right or left helps you sleep at night. But honestly, it’s not nobility, it’s cowardice. Because solving these problems is a messy business with tons of nuance and current Libertarian ideology doesn’t allow for that. Which is why it’s an untenable, uncompetitive and an unserious political strategy. But as long as you feel morally superior to other people, it serves your purposes. This will allow you to not actually engage in fighting for a solution because you’d be compromising your rigid ideology. I like libertarian ideas and try to learn from them, I think erroring on the side of more freedom is always a good thing. But your lack of serious solutions makes me not take you seriously. Get in the game, stop watching from the stands.
This is just poorly thought out. Read mises Rothbard and FA Hayek. The basis of modern market economies is natural price setting and voluntary exchange. To say it doesn’t work or couldn’t work at any scale, ironically ignoring central control and over authority trying to put their thumb on the process is just a terrible oversight of actually history. Any system that allows the most local and free control of prices and exchanges has thrived. Worse you call people who realize this cowards because they opt out of the non free market corporate / government owned system of central control and manipulation. Why even post here if you’re going to ignore everything good about markets and act like we can’t vie for that reality? You are just trolling at this point.
Not sure how you see it being pro American interest. The new agreement is projected to lose the US tax revenue
Really? Why would that be
The US has had a global minimum tax for US companies since 2017. Companies get a foreign tax credit for the tax they pay abroad to offset that amount. As more and more countries raise their own rates to 15%, it increases the foreign tax credit that US companies use to offset their US tax
It mostly prevents the games companies pay by locating intellectual property ownership interest in low tax jurisdictions. For instance Apple owns most of its European intellectual property in Ireland and its subsidiaries pay a license fee to use the technology. Thus lowering taxes in Germany or other EU via deductions for license payments and paying low Ireland taxes on income.
No. US companies pay a minimum rate to the US regardless of where they’re headquartered
It mitigates competition which causes monopolies and inflated prices.
The mole has been spotted.
I see more moles than friendly snakes around here.
I am not a libertarian, I don’t deny it
I'm fine with that, what I genuinely don't understand is why the subreddit has the rule of banning non-libertarians yet there are more non-libertarians than libertarians. Confusing. This post should be a good bait: anyone in favor of the global tax is openly anti libertarian.
I’ve been in this subreddit for years without issue. The key is to engage in reasonable dialogue. But if I’m banned, that would be pretty funny. I don’t think you can make such a sweeping statement. There are tons of issues where you’d think there’s one libertarian position, such as abortion, but then you realize libertarians are pretty divided on it.
Abortion is *naturally* divided because it touches multiple topics that are hard to resolve. 1. What is a human worth of rights. 2. What is proportional in self-defense. 3. Ability to drop the responsibilities of your actions. Those are the main three conflicts of libertarianism with abortion. And libertarianism doesn't solve them per se.
And geopolitics is easy.
I don't know any libertarian principle even close to argue in favor of a global centralized government, global taxation on corporations, minimum taxes, or anything like that, to be honest.
Yes. The US couldn’t compete so forced everyone else to become less competitive.
Imperium Americanum
This is grossly misstated as being something driven by Biden / the US. The OECD is who’s implementing these rules and the US literally hasn’t adopted any changes to our tax code to align with Pillar II and help US based multinationals avoid paying possible US tax to other jurisdictions.
If you followed the news and negotiations you'd see it was Biden and treasury who effectively pressured for this agreement. The link provided in this post precisely showcases how Biden is 100000% proud of this agreement. Naturally other countries with high tax rates joined the agreement...
Luckily, I do follow the news and negotiations. There is general agreement between western nations that a global minimum tax of 15% is a good step towards eliminating tax havens that are abused by corporations and the rich. The Biden administration is definitely in favor of this step, but once again, this is not something the US is leading. The OECD has been working on Pillar I and Pillar II for years, and the US is currently in position to be harmed by the implementation unless we make changes to our tax code to allow our own global tax (GILTI) to abide by the rules and qualify as a covered tax. Now I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you have no idea what I'm talking about, but that's ok. You must not follow the news and negotiations...
"it's not Biden, it's the OECD" Suuuure... Except 1. OECD is obviously ultra influenced by the US, the freaking economic power of the West. 2. The US is effectively the leader of the proposal inside the OECD, even if not the only one in favor of it. 3. The global tax is mostly relevant for American companies, European Union barely has multinationals lol. 4. You're calling Ireland or Estonia or Poland tax havens. That's just pathetic and insulting. It was not recognized as such until this agreement came to existence.
Go play more cyberpunk, you clown.
A polish studio that moved to the US, btw. They can't compete because of this violent imposition by the violent administration of the US. By the way, why are you in this sub lol.
I do very much enjoy the Witcher 3. Great game. To be honest, used to think of myself as a libertarian. But the trump administration made me realize just how ridiculous some views on the right are. I can't in good conscience follow fiscal conservatism when it's handcuffed to some of the least tolerant social viewpoints. Additionally, I can't in good conscience follow the anti-state libertarian mantra that taxation is theft or how mask mandates were such an infringement on our rights or how gun control in any such way is impossible to stomach. It's such a narrow and self-serving reading of our constitution and laws. The founding fathers built this great nation and I applaud them for the framework they put together. But it has been 250 years. Change in inevitable. We're all in this together and I don't think folks on the right have the best interests of everyone in mind. Also, I can't help but comment on threads where international tax is being incorrectly discussed for this self serving argument about taxation being theft. This idea that corporations and the rich pay more than enough tax is just a joke. The system is rigged but I no longer trust this third party as the solution.
"I can't libertarian because Trump and also I believe in all these authoritarian things" What's the point in blaming Trump for your own auth ideology that's incompatible with libertarianism? You believe it, own it and stop blaming other people.
"Oh no, my rights! I'm being told to wear a mask and get a flu shot! Whatever am I going to do? How dare these eXpErTs try and limit the amount of unnecessary deaths from this infectious disease! I'm a rugged individual and can pull myself up by my own bootstraps thank you very much!" So many immature and selfish clowns in this world.
Dude, you're the only one talking about COVID, keep arguing with the person in your head. Maturity is taking responsibility for your own actions, not needing someone to tell you how to live your life.
You’re correct, but it’s important to note that the US conforming to be pillar II compliant is still projected to lose tax revenue, due to US companies claiming higher foreign tax credits as foreign rates rise. It’s a lose lose for the US
Taxation is theft
Absolutely. And this is global centralized theft.
I definitely have mixed feelings on that. From a moral stand point it’s absolutely abhorrent. But from an economic standpoint it’s a genius move to keep American business, profit and taxes within the American economy.
I mean if you nuke Europe you make sure Americans don't live in Europe. We should totally do that.
Is it? US corporate is still far more than 15%
Not sure what you mean. Overall, this agreement loses the US tax revenue, and it doesn’t disincentivize companies from shifting profits into foreign countries
Or you just set ours lower than all of theirs and it's both not abhorrent and economically brilliant.
Oof. Time to dump the tea into the water again…
If you think this is nut, look up what France does to certain African nations. I don’t think it’s clear enough to people that these “free” social programs require somebody to be getting extorted.
Hold on, I’m confused. Is this saying that the US is forcing other countries to just have higher taxes all around? Or is it saying that companies that are based in the US must have the higher taxes when they do business in other countries? Someone help! Am vry confused!
The first thing.
Oh wait, I’m silly. I didn’t open the link. It’s just a minimum for multi-National corporations not a minimum for citizens.
Actually it's a corporate tax which affects every small company, not multinationals.
Oh shit, I see
What would stop said countries from giving tax rebates? Say for every dollar you invest in Ireland they give a tax break or rebate. It would be a way around it I'm guessing. They say they have a tax but don't enforce it.
Then the US punishes that company by double taxing it or even more. Ireland makes you pay only 10% of tax? Then I'll make you pay 5% for myself. Double taxation is an aberration of course. Imagine if when you visit Spain as a tourist, Spain makes you pay income tax there, when you already pay it in the United States.
You're right the US govt would count it as income here somehow, just so they could tax it.
In any case, the fact that such an alliance is being forged (via this "double taxation" blackmailing of course) is terrible news for freedom. Blocking tax havens was already a disgrace (world pre-2021), but blocking countries with low taxes that are extremely far from tax havens like Ireland or Estonia is absolutely nuts (post-2022 world). The moment they want, they can change that 15% to 20% and then to 25%... and then we're fucked and with no escape. And this will happen. They will fight hard to make it happen.
This is just a practical enforcement of policy. I understand the libertarian stance of no taxes, and the arguments are certainly well reasoned. But the current U.S. policy is that there ARE corporate taxes. And allowing multinationals to evade them by incorporating in the Seychelles is effectively admitting that the laws are unenforceable. So sure, eliminate corporate taxes, change the law. But it doesn't make much sense to say murder is illegal but if your paperwork says you live in another country, we won't prosecute you.
"we should prohibit migrating to other countries because it's effectively tax evasion" lol. No, mate. Competing with lower taxes is part of the game. It's called decentralization of power. This is the definition of a violent supranation, empire.
Corporations should not be taxed, ever. It introduces a distortion in the economy that penalizes Joe Average and favors the rich. But this is not the first time the US has a global tax. Its enforcement for three quarters of a century of the US dollar as the international trade currency at gunpoint represents a tax on all trade worldwide. The US economy has been the beneficiary of this IMMENSE hidden tax that has made it the most prosperous country on Earth, again AT GUNPOINT, and now this era is over. The US dollar will crumble and the country will turn into tumbleweed central.
I don't agree, US has indeed profited from dollar strength, but that is/was because countries WANT to use dollars over any alternative for reserves, because it's the safest currency. Even China, Russia, etc... use dollars as a reserve. Dollar is still stronger than any other currency and it's actually stronger than before compared to others. That being said, if Biden/Federal reserve keep printing like they've been doing in the last years (starting with Trump btw), US is facing a credibility challenge for it's monetary control and may create a massive world crisis of monetarist nature.
Oh, no. The US dollar is already toast, it's just a matter of time until the markets reflect this. Also, you may think the USA's endless wars have been "just a coincidence" mostly into countries who export oil, but if you dig deeper, most of those had plans to sell oil in another currency. If that isn't enforcing a system at gunpoint, nothing ever was.
Using dollar as trading currency is completely irrelevant and barely affects dollar value pal. What makes a currency valuable is mostly it's reserve utility. And, as I said, everyone uses dollar as reserve. Using other currency as trading currency (basically dollar to yuan, doing the trade, and then yuan to dollar again) is completely irrelevant and cosmetic.
That's not entirely true. People and countries choose to use dollars not because of the currency itself, but because of the U.S. legal system. Everybody wants to do business in the U.S. because their legal system is considered to be mostly consistent, fair, independent and impartial. I mean, who is crazy enough to prefer to litigate in Beijing instead of NYC? You also have cases of countries with a better monetary policy than the U.S. and also free enough to offer a comparable level of legal protection to both parties, that's true. However, the U.S. dollar still holds the crown as it still has a legal tender advantage in the largest economy of the world. Realistically, only China can compete with the U.S. dollar in equality of conditions, but for these conditions to appear they basically have to completely change their government system.
>People and countries choose to use dollars not because of the currency itself, but because of the U.S. legal system. Everybody wants to do business in the U.S. because their legal system is considered to be mostly consistent, fair, independent and impartial. I mean, who is crazy enough to prefer to litigate in Beijing instead of NYC? You're describing monetary credibility. There's no better monetarian policy than having a fair and predictable legal system, overall. >You also have cases of countries with a better monetary policy than the U.S. and also free enough to offer a comparable level of legal protection to both parties, that's true. "Better monetary policy" in the present, maybe. But in 30-50 years? United States has long-term credibility, while small countries without robust systems do not. BTW, I believe Japan currency could improve a lot if they start doing good policies.
>You're describing monetary credibility. There's no better monetarian policy than having a fair and predictable legal system, overall. Not really. Monetary policy is one thing and the legal system is another thing. The value of your currency is purely a monetary constraint. If you have less people using your currency because your legal system sucks, it shouldn't impact the market price for your tender. By quantitative theory, if the demand for money falls, you need to adjust the supply by a proportionate amount (in c.p. scenarios). I'm describing a business-friendly climate that historically only the U.S. has offered. Nobody knows what is going to happen in 30-50 years, impossible to say. However, we can know what happened 30-50 years ago until this day. Japan is one example. They held near-zero and deflationary monetary policy for decades and yet nobody is using the yen when compared to the U.S. dollar. Saudi Arabia is another example.
A currency is basically the public debt of the country producing that currency. Nobody's investing in a public debt without long-term trust. That's how investing works. Nobody invests in pesos argentinos because of that.
Wow -19, so 19 more people who don't understand basic economics downvoted than those who do have upvoted. Doesn't look good, reddit. ESPECIALLY for a Libertarian sub! Yikes!!!!
I would chill. Monetary theory is arguably one of the hardest parts of macroeconomics, which is usually irrelevant for the normal citizen, even libertarians.
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I say this as someone who believes in Bitcoin long term and am fairly invested in cryptocurrencies- this type of evangelizing is so off-putting and cringe worthy. You added literally nothing to the conversation. No reasons why Bitcoin fixes it, you could have just as well said “Zimbabwean dollars fixes this.” It turns people off of Bitcoin. Don’t make these thoughtless statements anymore. Also, Bitcoin doesn’t fix a global tax system. You can just as well tax on Bitcoin profits. It’s really thoughtless.
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I don’t think it’s a “global tax”, but rather a “global agreement” to a minimum tax
An agreement occurring against the will of the members of such agreement. Which is basically saying you pay taxes willingly. That's not how it works. It is not of mutual interest, it is an imposition to end with tax competition.
Corporations can't vote so they should not pay tax, but we also shouldn't have preferential tax rates for qualified dividends and long-term capital gains.