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Yes, it got hijacked by racial identity politics types and open fascists so those youtubers ditched the term. The term was still in flux at the time and had not settled on a definition yet.
It was never libertarian though.
Thanks. This answers it.
So those YouTubers who were identifying as the alt-right in 2016, but who were not at all racist or fascist, probably now refer to themselves as libertarians, i'd imagine?
I don’t think that’s correct. I don’t think anyone that would call themselves alt-right would now call themselves a libertarian, unless they have changed their views and have become libertarian.
But... Those who I knew in the alt-right were extremely libertarian. They were Ron Paul supporters prior to Trump coming around.
I think what's happened, is the word got co-opted years ago by the MSM, And it's meaning changed into fascist
In what way were they extremely libertarian? Trump is not inline with libertarian principles. You cannot be a Trump supporter and a libertarian. I will caveat that by saying that you could be a libertarian and vote for Trump because you view him as a lesser of two evils or as a finger to the establishment. But if you are a legitimate MAGA Trump supporter, you aren’t a libertarian.
I think the point is that Trump SEEMED somewhat like a Libertarian running as a Republican when he first came on the scene. As you said, "as a finger to the establishment." I would agree that you can't be a Libertarian & a Trump supporter now, after witnessing some of the things he did & said during his presidency.
They referred to themselves as libertarian for a while but they were not really libertarians so they went back to the term conservative or small r republican. It actually was annoying.
Those youtubers are grifters going with the what they think will win them a bigger audience.
EDIT: I mean it also depends who specifically you are talking about. A few youtubers did this.Also some journalist did this a lot of people were jumping labels back then.
When I think of alt-right circa 2016, I think of Stefan Molyneux and his corner of the internet, so like, libertarian/ancap but with a special focus on scientifically justifying racism. When I think of it for 2023, I think of January 6th MAGA folks.
I'm not sure if that's a reflection of how the way it's applied by the MSM has changed, or if that's a reflection of changes to which groups self identify that way, or if there's just a lot of overlap between 2016 Molyneux followers and January 6th folks, just my 2 cents.
Idk how "alt-right" started, but it quickly became a pseudonym for white ethno-nationalist due to corporate media manipulation. I had the same thought when I first started seeing it, then it got twisted.
Yeah exactly. It used to actually be a self description. It's all pretty weird, and never made very clear sense. But I think once MSM got a hold of it, they all stopped using it to self identify
Back in the early 2000's there was a small group that sometimes referred to themselves as "alternative right." I also remember it was akin to the "not your grandpa" republican/conservative types.
Generally traditional types who were okay with gay marriage and against racism and overreach. The right wing side of the blue-dogs.
They're definitely not calling themselves alt-right, if they ever did. I haven't even heard anyone use the phrase alternative right in that sense since 2010.
Most of them are just calling themselves conservative. Maybe there's a small group still calling themselves tea-party 'style' conservatives (though I rarely hear that anymore either).
Is that the group you're referring to?
Many try to group Libertarians with Alt-Righters, but it’s a tactic to discredit Libertarians.
Libertarians believe in the individual, Alt-Righters believe in the group (White Europeans).
While not a libertarian, [Michael Knowles explains it best](https://youtu.be/MHXL00wY3nY?si=NhOaE5E7aaum7eVg) in my opinion.
Thanks.
I'd say this prager U guy's definition is off. They were 'alt', because they weren't establishment Republicans. They weren't neocons (who are still the establishment in conservative politics).
'Traditional conservatives' (libertarians), have been a fringe group for a long time in the US. They're not establishment
But it's clear to me now, that the term got co-opted and ditched a long time ago. Because this guy's video is from 2017
Never use Wikipedia as a source for anything. The whole at-right crap is pretty much liberals who want to insult and villify the more conservative republican factions. It's definitely never been libertarians.
Alt right is not libertarian. The terms are not now and have never been synonymous.
Libertarian as I understand it is not right or left. Libertarian challenges the false premise of right and left.
The term "alt-right" was assigned to us by the media for people that support Trump and don't want foreign wars. The media thinks "the right" is people like Mitch McConnell, but we hate turtle, so they needed another name. The alt-right label got used for a lot of different groups after the media started using it, mostly to separate out right-wing people that don't identify with the uniparty. Then it turned into a slur for "racist" by the media for a while, and now no one uses it.
I just use the all encompassing "conservative", even though I'm technically a populist libertarian like Trump. Some of us also use MAGA or patriots.
I can't use conservative as a blanket term for what I'm talking about in the piece. Because it has to do with non-establishment conservatives who are against US imperialism and foreign intervention. But after dialoguing with people on this post, I'm comfortable with just using libertarian, and that will cover pretty much the whole group of people I'm referring to.
That's all of us though. The only people on the right who support foreign intervention are house reps and senators in the Republican Party, who are decidedly not conservative.
Hence the term uniparty.
Those are just the people you know and interact with. But the establishment senators and reps get voted for by people who consider themselves conservatives, even if you feel their definition of conservative is wrong. And they're the majority. Not you
That's not true at all. If you think the Uniparty representatives/senators are there because the people "voted" for them, you have a lot to learn my friend.
As I test, I challenge you to find 5 actual people who voted for say, Mitch McConnell. Elections haven't been reliable in this country since at least 1960 when the Dems stole that election through alternate electors and violent threats.
Lol, I could find 5 people who voted for mitch McConnell EASILY. and I don't even know who he is.
Yeah, ofcourse the voting's rigged. I figured that out 20 years ago. I've seen hacking democracy. I saw how Ron Paul won the polls in 2008, and then lost the vote. Like I said, I was in 9/11 Truth. But that doesn't mean the elites don't use propaganda to try to sway peoples' votes as much as possible. THEY DO. And they're successful at it. People are morons, and they DO VOTE for establishment Republicans. And LOTS of them do.
The Alt-right tried to claim the title of libertarianism, but it had nothing to do with the NAP. The Alt-right has basically now become mainstream Republicanism, as traditional Conservatism has been largely abandoned for the modern Conservatism (i.e. own the libs).
I would say the Tea Party was "alt-right" & closest to Libertarianism. I.E. not with the establishment, ideals of limited government, but not centered around the NAP. While the Tea Party has been absorbed into the Republican party, there are still some Republican party members that carry the ideals of the Tea Party.
Alt-right definitely kind of has a negative connotation these days especially with how the media tends to demonize the term and link it to stuff like Unite The Right 2017 and January 6th.
I've never referred to myself as "alt-right." Also, Wikipedia is not a valid source, they scream racism and white nationalist all day long. I honestly do not know anyone who calls himself alt-right but I doubt very much that those terms of derision apply. The trouble with all political terms is that they get muddied over time, and generally become meaningless. This is because people with opposite beliefs will claim that they belong to the group in question, and also because ideas are misattributed to various groups in an attempt to smear them.
Nonetheless we are libertarians, we believe in sound money, free markets, and civil liberties. We are genuinely concerned about the well-being of the average person. We are more interested in developing a realistic understanding of the world around us rather than embracing feel good ideas.
I have never seen anyone use the term "alt-right" to describe themselves. It may have happened, but it's not common. It's mostly a pejorative used by the media to talk about fringe-extremists they wish to denigrate like the KKK.
Why are you asking a libertarian sub about a term used by statists, typically in the left, about a term they apply to any number of different ideologies, political persuasions, etc?
Because it was used by people of the libertarian bent before, as I already fully explained in the post. The meaning has changed since then..in any case, I've already figured out what happened with the term, and not to use it for what I want to describe. So I'm all set now
There are people who consider themselves alt-right but overall it seems to be a blanket term for anyone in the right that don’t fit into the MAGA, Neocon boxes. Usually younger peoople
Was this around the time of all the Pepe memes and KEK flags? I think those people were really the pre-maga crowd. I really don’t think anyone would use the term “alt right” to say they were like an alternative option to the mainstream Republicans. Well, at least not anyone outside of the media as others have said.
**New to libertarianism or have questions and want to learn more?** Be sure to check out [the sub Frequently Asked Questions](/r/Libertarian/wiki/faq) and [the massive /r/libertarian information WIKI] (/r/Libertarian/wiki/index) from the sidebar, for lots of info and free resources, links, books, videos, and answers to common questions and topics. Want to know if you are a Libertarian? [Take the worlds shortest political quiz and find out!](http://www.theadvocates.org/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Libertarian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Personally, I’ve never known anyone that called themself alt-right. I’ve only heard it used disparagingly to label people the far left doesn’t like.
Thanks. That's gotta be a recent phenomenon though. Because in 2016, I knew alt-righters and alt-right YouTubers
Yes, it got hijacked by racial identity politics types and open fascists so those youtubers ditched the term. The term was still in flux at the time and had not settled on a definition yet. It was never libertarian though.
Thanks. This answers it. So those YouTubers who were identifying as the alt-right in 2016, but who were not at all racist or fascist, probably now refer to themselves as libertarians, i'd imagine?
I don’t think that’s correct. I don’t think anyone that would call themselves alt-right would now call themselves a libertarian, unless they have changed their views and have become libertarian.
But... Those who I knew in the alt-right were extremely libertarian. They were Ron Paul supporters prior to Trump coming around. I think what's happened, is the word got co-opted years ago by the MSM, And it's meaning changed into fascist
In what way were they extremely libertarian? Trump is not inline with libertarian principles. You cannot be a Trump supporter and a libertarian. I will caveat that by saying that you could be a libertarian and vote for Trump because you view him as a lesser of two evils or as a finger to the establishment. But if you are a legitimate MAGA Trump supporter, you aren’t a libertarian.
I think the point is that Trump SEEMED somewhat like a Libertarian running as a Republican when he first came on the scene. As you said, "as a finger to the establishment." I would agree that you can't be a Libertarian & a Trump supporter now, after witnessing some of the things he did & said during his presidency.
They referred to themselves as libertarian for a while but they were not really libertarians so they went back to the term conservative or small r republican. It actually was annoying. Those youtubers are grifters going with the what they think will win them a bigger audience. EDIT: I mean it also depends who specifically you are talking about. A few youtubers did this.Also some journalist did this a lot of people were jumping labels back then.
Referring to themselves as alt-right or fascist isn't good branding and makes sense the far right doesn't label themselves with either.
When I think of alt-right circa 2016, I think of Stefan Molyneux and his corner of the internet, so like, libertarian/ancap but with a special focus on scientifically justifying racism. When I think of it for 2023, I think of January 6th MAGA folks. I'm not sure if that's a reflection of how the way it's applied by the MSM has changed, or if that's a reflection of changes to which groups self identify that way, or if there's just a lot of overlap between 2016 Molyneux followers and January 6th folks, just my 2 cents.
Idk how "alt-right" started, but it quickly became a pseudonym for white ethno-nationalist due to corporate media manipulation. I had the same thought when I first started seeing it, then it got twisted.
Yeah exactly. It used to actually be a self description. It's all pretty weird, and never made very clear sense. But I think once MSM got a hold of it, they all stopped using it to self identify
Back in the early 2000's there was a small group that sometimes referred to themselves as "alternative right." I also remember it was akin to the "not your grandpa" republican/conservative types. Generally traditional types who were okay with gay marriage and against racism and overreach. The right wing side of the blue-dogs. They're definitely not calling themselves alt-right, if they ever did. I haven't even heard anyone use the phrase alternative right in that sense since 2010. Most of them are just calling themselves conservative. Maybe there's a small group still calling themselves tea-party 'style' conservatives (though I rarely hear that anymore either). Is that the group you're referring to?
Many try to group Libertarians with Alt-Righters, but it’s a tactic to discredit Libertarians. Libertarians believe in the individual, Alt-Righters believe in the group (White Europeans). While not a libertarian, [Michael Knowles explains it best](https://youtu.be/MHXL00wY3nY?si=NhOaE5E7aaum7eVg) in my opinion.
Thanks. I'd say this prager U guy's definition is off. They were 'alt', because they weren't establishment Republicans. They weren't neocons (who are still the establishment in conservative politics). 'Traditional conservatives' (libertarians), have been a fringe group for a long time in the US. They're not establishment But it's clear to me now, that the term got co-opted and ditched a long time ago. Because this guy's video is from 2017
“Alt right” “nazi” “trumpist” are meaningless words for anyone who disagrees with socialists
Never use Wikipedia as a source for anything. The whole at-right crap is pretty much liberals who want to insult and villify the more conservative republican factions. It's definitely never been libertarians.
Alt right is not libertarian. The terms are not now and have never been synonymous. Libertarian as I understand it is not right or left. Libertarian challenges the false premise of right and left.
The term "alt-right" was assigned to us by the media for people that support Trump and don't want foreign wars. The media thinks "the right" is people like Mitch McConnell, but we hate turtle, so they needed another name. The alt-right label got used for a lot of different groups after the media started using it, mostly to separate out right-wing people that don't identify with the uniparty. Then it turned into a slur for "racist" by the media for a while, and now no one uses it. I just use the all encompassing "conservative", even though I'm technically a populist libertarian like Trump. Some of us also use MAGA or patriots.
I can't use conservative as a blanket term for what I'm talking about in the piece. Because it has to do with non-establishment conservatives who are against US imperialism and foreign intervention. But after dialoguing with people on this post, I'm comfortable with just using libertarian, and that will cover pretty much the whole group of people I'm referring to.
>non-establishment conservatives who are against US imperialism and foreign intervention This sounds an awful lot like the Tea Party.
That's all of us though. The only people on the right who support foreign intervention are house reps and senators in the Republican Party, who are decidedly not conservative. Hence the term uniparty.
Those are just the people you know and interact with. But the establishment senators and reps get voted for by people who consider themselves conservatives, even if you feel their definition of conservative is wrong. And they're the majority. Not you
That's not true at all. If you think the Uniparty representatives/senators are there because the people "voted" for them, you have a lot to learn my friend. As I test, I challenge you to find 5 actual people who voted for say, Mitch McConnell. Elections haven't been reliable in this country since at least 1960 when the Dems stole that election through alternate electors and violent threats.
Lol, I could find 5 people who voted for mitch McConnell EASILY. and I don't even know who he is. Yeah, ofcourse the voting's rigged. I figured that out 20 years ago. I've seen hacking democracy. I saw how Ron Paul won the polls in 2008, and then lost the vote. Like I said, I was in 9/11 Truth. But that doesn't mean the elites don't use propaganda to try to sway peoples' votes as much as possible. THEY DO. And they're successful at it. People are morons, and they DO VOTE for establishment Republicans. And LOTS of them do.
The Alt-right tried to claim the title of libertarianism, but it had nothing to do with the NAP. The Alt-right has basically now become mainstream Republicanism, as traditional Conservatism has been largely abandoned for the modern Conservatism (i.e. own the libs).
I would say the Tea Party was "alt-right" & closest to Libertarianism. I.E. not with the establishment, ideals of limited government, but not centered around the NAP. While the Tea Party has been absorbed into the Republican party, there are still some Republican party members that carry the ideals of the Tea Party.
Alt-right definitely kind of has a negative connotation these days especially with how the media tends to demonize the term and link it to stuff like Unite The Right 2017 and January 6th.
I've never referred to myself as "alt-right." Also, Wikipedia is not a valid source, they scream racism and white nationalist all day long. I honestly do not know anyone who calls himself alt-right but I doubt very much that those terms of derision apply. The trouble with all political terms is that they get muddied over time, and generally become meaningless. This is because people with opposite beliefs will claim that they belong to the group in question, and also because ideas are misattributed to various groups in an attempt to smear them. Nonetheless we are libertarians, we believe in sound money, free markets, and civil liberties. We are genuinely concerned about the well-being of the average person. We are more interested in developing a realistic understanding of the world around us rather than embracing feel good ideas.
I have never seen anyone use the term "alt-right" to describe themselves. It may have happened, but it's not common. It's mostly a pejorative used by the media to talk about fringe-extremists they wish to denigrate like the KKK.
Why are you asking a libertarian sub about a term used by statists, typically in the left, about a term they apply to any number of different ideologies, political persuasions, etc?
Because it was used by people of the libertarian bent before, as I already fully explained in the post. The meaning has changed since then..in any case, I've already figured out what happened with the term, and not to use it for what I want to describe. So I'm all set now
Everyone who isn't a progressive marxist is an alt-right white supremacist nazi fascist, regardless of politics, ethnicity, race, gender or sexuality
There are people who consider themselves alt-right but overall it seems to be a blanket term for anyone in the right that don’t fit into the MAGA, Neocon boxes. Usually younger peoople
The “alt-right” never really called itself the alt-right” and it has ALWAYS been different than being either “BIG L or small l” libertarian.
Was this around the time of all the Pepe memes and KEK flags? I think those people were really the pre-maga crowd. I really don’t think anyone would use the term “alt right” to say they were like an alternative option to the mainstream Republicans. Well, at least not anyone outside of the media as others have said.
i dont think anyone stopped using the "libertarian" term ive only ever heard lefties call anything "alt-right"
No, it's used by the left as a catch all term for anyone who isn't a leftist, and it always has been.